When Penetration Isn’t the Only Option with Justin Depow

Justin Depow is the inventor of C*ck Block, the first sex tech product designed specifically to combine penetration and frot in one shared experience. After leaving a successful corporate career in product management, Justin took a personal challenge and turned it into a bold entrepreneurial journey. Following years of struggling with undiagnosed pelvic floor dysfunction that made anal sex painful and anxiety producing, he began questioning why intimacy in gay male culture was so narrowly defined. What started as a deeply personal frustration evolved into more than a decade of research, prototyping, and persistence to create a product that expands how queer men and other penis havers can experience connection and pleasure face to face.

In this candid and wide ranging conversation, Justin and Dr. Joe Kort explore the meaning of frot, why outercourse is often dismissed as not real sex, and how rigid top and bottom roles can limit sexual expression. Justin shares the emotional impact of finally receiving the correct medical diagnosis, how pelvic floor physical therapy changed his life, and why he felt compelled to design something that offered an alternative to anal intercourse without sacrificing intimacy. He also opens up about the realities of launching a sex toy company, from manufacturing challenges and international supply chains to unexpected barriers from banks, warehouses, and online advertising platforms that continue to stigmatize sexual wellness businesses.

The discussion also highlights the growing visibility of sides and others who prefer non anal sex, and the cultural resistance that still exists within and outside the LGBTQ community. Justin explains how customer feedback has shaped the evolution of C*ck Block into a customizable system with different textures and upcoming innovations, including new form factors and vibration options. At its core, his mission aligns closely with Joe’s long standing message that pleasure, connection, and sexual satisfaction do not have to revolve around penetration.

Listen to this Smart Sex, Smart Love episode as Dr. Joe Kort talks with Justin Depow about redefining gay intimacy, challenging sexual scripts, innovating in queer sex tech, and expanding what counts as real sex.

Transcript

JOE KORT: 0:00

Welcome everyone to smart sex, smart love, where talking about s*x goes beyond the taboo and talking about love goes beyond the honeymoon. My guest today is Justin Depow. Justin is the inventor of c*ck block, the first s*x tech product designed specifically for fraud. He left a senior corporate position to dedicate his time to this proudly gay owned and operated business that creates products which cater to the unique needs of the LGBTQ plus community. After struggling with penetrative sex due to an undiagnosed medical condition, Justin began questioning why intimacy was so narrowly defined, and why no product existed for alternatives what started as a personal need became a decade long journey of design, prototyping and persistence to create something entirely new. Justin's work focuses on expanding how we think about intimacy, pleasure and inclusion in the sexual wellness industry today, Justin is going to talk about his invention, how he got involved in it and the challenges he has faced, and what is next for him and his company. Welcome Justin,

Justin Depow: 1:06

thank you so much, Joe. I'm so happy to be here.

JOE KORT: 1:09

I'm so happy to have you here, too. And before we start, I figured if we could have you define for the audience, so that they know what frot means, F, R, O, T

Justin Depow: 1:18

Sure. Well, first of all, I want to thank you. This is my very first podcast. So this is a great, very exciting day for me and for my business. I kind of feel like I'm coming out for the second time, or this is the completion of that journey. You know, leaving my professional career to, you know, to head a gay s*x toy business is certainly a risk, and it took me, took me quite a while to fully embrace it. I think I was kind of in shock when I left the corporate world. And then over time, I slowly started putting, you know, attaching my name to this business, and this is my first podcast, so I I'm fully embracing it, because I will live on the internet, forever in video form. So thank you so much. It's an honor to be here talking to you.

JOE KORT: 2:05

Oh, I'm honored that I'm going to be your first

Justin Depow: 2:09

I've lost my podcast virginity with you. Thank you.

JOE KORT: 2:11

You're welcome. Yeah. So and you're also going to be associated with frot, obviously. So maybe we can tell audiences what that means,

Justin Depow: 2:19

Absolutely. So I mean, fraud is pretty straightforward. It's rubbing two two penises together to c*ck together, as I would say, in part of the, you know, c*ck block world. And you know, it's between any two gay guys or any other penis havers, such as in the trans community. And, you know, some curious or straight guys, depending on how people identify, and it's mostly at the point of the frenulum. So the frenulum is that part of the male anatomy, kind of on the underside of the glands that tends to be really sensitive. So you know, whether or not you're cut or uncut. You know, rubbing one penis against another in that position is really pleasurable and intimate. So I would, you know, define fraught as the rubbing of two c*cks the, you know, not everyone knows that term, but that is, you know, a lot of people are kind of familiar with with the act.

JOE KORT: 3:21

I'll tell you sides know what frot is. So I knew the term. I guess I knew it as a s*x therapist, but I didn't. We didn't really talk a lot about it. I didn't learn a lot about it. And when I started, we have a side Facebook group of about 9000 men across the world, and they're all, they're always posting about fraud. And am I saying it wrong? Is it frot or fraught?

Justin Depow: 3:41

I say fraught.

JOE KORT: 3:42

Yeah, I like the way you say better, actually. And thank you for explaining it. And now maybe you could tell us how c*ck block what it is and what it's for

Justin Depow: 3:52

Sure, c*ck block is the world's first and only s*x toy or s*x product that was that combines the sensations of both frot and penetration. So as I mentioned, for any two penis havers and the way it's designed, the it's made of two parts. There's an internal sleeve that's soft and comfortable to penetrate. But, and I have one right here. I know some of your customers are listening into audio, so I'll try to explain this, you know, throughout, you know, verbally, but it actually has two holes. And the reason it has two holes is it gives each partner that feeling of penetration, and then on the inside, when you go further, kind of down the product. Right about here, the two holes merge into one channel. So the two separate holes give that feeling of penetration, and then when you come into the channel, the c*cks actually touch skin on skin, and provides that that frot experience. The reason we it's two parts is the outside part. Again, or the inside part is it's softer, it's really comfortable to penetrate, and then the outside is made out of silicone, and that gives a feeling kind of a compression and tightness. But what's really important is that the reason we chose silicone is you can squeeze it if you tend to want, if tend to be a little bit less girthy and you want a little bit more pressure, plus it has some stretch. So if you happen to be girthier, it can accommodate most size c*cks.

JOE KORT: 5:31

I love the respect you're giving to talking about penis size and girth and all that, because I think a lot of people would look at that maybe who feel like maybe they couldn't fit, or they would fit, but it wouldn't be, you know, big enough, or whatever, like, have you had people have concerns about any of that?

Justin Depow: 5:47

So yes, in fact, that's one of the common questions we get, is this going, you know, is this going to fit me? And you know, to be honest, that was probably the most foundational challenge of designing this product. You know, penises come in every shape and size. And how do you one of the challenges was, how do we create a product that can accommodate all shapes and sizes? And, you know, as part of designing, you know, the initial prototypes and trying to figure out, you know, how to do this. I mean, I looked at biology textbooks, anatomy textbooks, like I literally was looking at, what are the numbers, what are the ranges? And that actually made it more alarming, because then I learned that, wow, there's, you know, this is a human organ that has huge variance. And the challenge was, how do you build a product for two and that's one of the reasons why this was designed the way it was, and that outside silicone part was really key and a big differentiator for these type of products.

JOE KORT: 6:53

Wow, a lot went into doing this, like what led you to invent this?

Justin Depow: 6:58

So when I first came out, I'm gonna be honest, I thought that was the hard part, and it certainly was. But I thought, Okay, this is behind me now. You know it's gonna be, you know, easier from here on in. And the truth was, it wasn't for me. One of my first s*xual experiences was with someone who wanted to top and I just found, I just found bottoming really, really difficult, and that continued to be a challenge for me for many years. And I thought something was wrong with me. I felt like I didn't really fit in. It sort of became a, kind of an ongoing anxiety about, you know, if I'm with somebody, are they, you know, what are they? You know, the whole top versus bottom, where, you know, is this going to work? And it went on for a long time, and I didn't realize that I had an undiagnosed medical condition, and it took almost two decades for me to be properly diagnosed, and it's called pelvic floor dysfunction. It, you know, a way to explain it, I think, is, you know, some people carry tension maybe in their neck and they get headaches. You know, some people might carry tension in their backs. They might get back aches. Some people hold tension in their pelvic floor. And what happens is that, over time, things get tighter and tighter, but not in the good way. It's not the good tightness, it's a bad tightness, and for both male and females, that can lead to a lot of problems s*xually and in other parts of one's health. So the the symptoms overlap a lot with prostatitis in men. So for decades, I was on antibiotics because urologist thought I had chronic prostatitis, wow. And I used to travel a lot for work, and I just got really lucky. I got a job in Chicago. I had a new urologist who happened to be married to one of the few physical therapists in the US that specializes in pelvic floor dysfunction. Oh my gosh. And by pure chance, he said, You know what, I'm happy to fill your prescription, but I want you to see my wife first. And he sent me over, and it changed my life.

JOE KORT: 9:19

Wow, that is incredible. I am so happy you're sharing that story as a man, because we usually hear about that from women, about women, but not from men.

Justin Depow: 9:28

It's true, and it's funny, because I remember waiting in her waiting room, and she comes out. First of all, I wasn't what I was expecting. She was she was really beautiful, like full makeup and hair. And I remember thinking, Oh, Who is this lady? And she invites me into her office, and she said, after about 20 minutes, because she had to do some testing to find out what was going on, and she said, I pretty much knew when I saw you, because every time I see a young guy in my what. Room. It's always pelvic floor issues, wow. And it started out specifically dealing with, you know, my medical symptoms. And it was only after I left I started thinking about, I'm like, Maybe she can help me with my s*xual issues. And I had to really build up a lot of courage for my second appointment to ask her, Listen, I know we're here to deal with, you know, these, you know, you know these symptoms, but can you help me with s*x? And she said, and I was actually really, I almost, you know, I got really emotional because I didn't realize how much was sort of pent up inside me in terms of the stress of it. And she was, she was amazing. She's like, Absolutely. She said, this is part of what I do. She said, I deal with trans people after, you know, post op, who are learning how to use, you know, their new anatomy. She said this. She said, I'm here for you. And she literally changed my life. And it was an incredible experience, and so freeing. But even after that, even after I had gone through, you know, treatment, I still realized that, you know, bottoming isn't always spontaneous. It takes a lot of, you know, a lot of people want to take a lot of effort and planning, because there's a lot of concerns around hygiene, and sometimes you just want to spice things off and do something a little different. So even after, I mean, those medical issues got me that's what got me thinking, How do I solve this? Because my professional background is product management, I tend to see problems as a product in the waiting. So I couldn't help but think, how am I going to solve this? And that's when I started thinking about, you know, before my diagnosis, what can I do? What kind of product could really help? And I actually went to some adult toy stores looking for a product like mine, and I was shocked that it didn't exist.

JOE KORT: 11:54

How long ago was that again?

Justin Depow: 11:56

So that was about, let's see. So I would say that was about 50, about 15 to 20, actually, about 20 years ago now, because it took me around a little bit over 10, actually about 15 years. It took me about 10 years to come up with the concept slowly work on prototypes. I used to build the prototypes in my on my kitchen floor, you know, you know, after work, I would kind of work on it as a hobby. So it was kind of like a hobby for over a decade. And sort of think about like, you know, what would solve this? What is the right design, what are the right materials, how do they need to come together to make a pleasurable experience that that fits most size c*cks, yeah. And then after about five years ago, end up, you know, launching, I have an associate, Philip, the two of us launched the store. And then I left my day job about two and a half years ago to focus on this full time.

JOE KORT: 12:53

It's really very, very interesting. A lot of people, it's a big risk, right? A lot of people like even going when I was in a early young therapist. I went from agency work to private practice. It's, it's a huge leap, and you have to trust them and know that if it doesn't work out, you went for your dream, and it does. When it does work out, it's even better.

Justin Depow: 13:11

Yeah. I mean, it is a huge risk. And, you know, when you talk to entrepreneurs, you know, with any type of product, they all say that the same thing that, you know, like, I threw everything into this, you know, I invested my money, my time, my resources, into this kind of dream of solving this problem, really for myself and then for others. And yeah, it was risky, and I was still working for about two years after I launched, and it really got to the point where I just couldn't focus on two things. I couldn't pretend that I could throw myself into my corporate day job and also work, you know, every other you know, weekend and evening on this and I started, actually, I remember, I knew it was time to leave, and during one of my corporate meetings, I accidentally refer, I didn't say c*ck block, but I referred to something, cock block adjacent. I can't, I think was a piece of software we're using for something. I was like, I can't keep these worlds separate any longer.

JOE KORT: 14:09

It's funny. Now, you almost didn't, you almost gave up. It's I read. Tell me why that almost happened.

Justin Depow: 14:16

So, I mean, there was, there was a quite a few things that happen. I'll tell you, you know, you know, maybe, I guess a couple things to mention. One was getting this thing manufactured. It was really difficult, and it seems so simple, especially when you, you know, when you get it and you hold it, you're like, Okay, this is, you know, the inside is made out of a TPE material that has a certain softness. The outside shell is made of silicone that has a certain kind of elasticity and softness. What's the big deal? And the big deal was I really knew my mind what I wanted, and the manufacturers I was working with really were thinking of this as a two hold stroker. So. So solo male masturbators are a really big seller in the s*x toy world, and there's a lot of them. So what happened was the I kept getting basically versions of two hold strokers. So they're designed very differently, because they're only for one penis. So an example is solo strokers usually have a hard plastic shell because you're holding on to it. It's not really meant to do anything other than contain the soft sleeve and enable you to kind of stroke yourself with it. But as I mentioned, this isn't for one penis. This is for two that come in every shape and size. So the outside silicone shell had to be soft enough to be comfortable against bodies. It couldn't be a hard plastic. It had to be squeezable, but it also had to contain things. So there was a real balance in terms of softness, elasticity, comfort, stretch. And I just, I kept doing prototype after prototype from suppliers that completely missed the mark, and this went on for well over a year. Same thing with the inner sleeve it. I didn't want it as soft as a stroker, because that's really intended to replicate anatomy. C*ck block isn't meant to replicate anatomy. It's kind of like a c*ck adapter where one cock can have s*x with another c*ck. So the sleeve had to have a little bit more structure to kind of help keep things positioned. It was really important that the c*ck stay cock aligned, if you will. And so it was just frustrating. It felt like it kept going forever, and I kept on getting different materials, and just nothing seemed to work. So I ended up having to go there. So obviously, a lot of suppliers in the adult toy industry are in China at my kind of, wait, that's a whole other conversation. Like, why aren't you making it North America or the US? I wanted to, couldn't find anyone to do it, and so I ended up going, you know, to China, and getting it over the finish line.

JOE KORT: 17:01

I'm glad you mentioned that, because people probably do would wonder about that. And there are you must you have your own reason, which would be in maybe another podcast or behind the scenes.

Justin Depow: 17:09

Absolutely, it might be back. I could talk at length of any of these topics. You know, it's fascinating how the industry works, and it's fascinating how the supply chain works, and, yeah, the only way I could get this made at this stage, although I'm always looking for, you know, options was to have this made in what is really the s*x toy capital of the world. Shenzhen.

JOE KORT: 17:29

Oh, wow. What reaction surprised you when this was launched.

Justin Depow: 17:35

So when we finally launched, the surprise was a good one. You know, with my product background, you really never know if a product is going to be successful until it goes to market. So, you know, I invested a lot into this, and I was willing to kind of roll the dice, but you just don't know. And I was, I was okay with that, like, I was like, Okay, I've, I've done it. And, you know, I can, you know, I can say I've done it, and it just started to sell. And we only market it to US and Canada, and we ended up selling it at last count, over 50 countries. Oh, wow, to, I mean, like all over the world, from, you know, Poland, South Africa. I mean, basically any we allow shipping at the time, for really, any country that were sex was gay, sex was legal, and sex choice were legal. And that was really more just of a setting that, you know, that we, you know, we were really thinking, Okay, well, this is, you know, it's going to be US Canada, because that's where we're marketing, and we had sales everywhere. So that was wonderful. And as the comments started rolling in, we learned that my experience was not unusual. Lots of you know, I, I'm a gay guy, so I, you know, I think as a gay guy, but lots of gay guys and trans people had challenges with an*l s*x, and I heard from customers that said, I've been looking for something like this. I've been wanting something like this. And I think the most, I mean, we have had a lot of challenges with this business, but one of our customers early on said, You saved our marriage, and that was so extremely meaningful and motivating for us. And you know, it doesn't have to say from your marriage. It could just be a fun toy to use, but for some people, it is a meaningful, life changing product.

JOE KORT: 19:26

Oh, I think that's huge. When people tell me about, you know, the coining the term side and how that changed their life. It's very it never gets, I never get used to it. It's very emotional. It must be for you too.

Justin Depow: 19:36

It is. It absolutely is.

JOE KORT: 19:38

What were some of the challenges you've had as it was launched.

Justin Depow: 19:41

So I would say the biggest ongoing challenge that surprised me, especially since I don't know, I just feel like, you know, in US and Canada, things have become, you know, the. There's a much, much more widespread, I think, mainstream acceptance, and we have had so many barriers thrown up because we're in the s*x toy business and things that I never expected, just as an example, and I'm really like, I'm really proud of this product. My family has seen it. You know, my mom has seen my website. Like, I think we did a really good job of kind of balancing something that was obviously playful and it's a s*x toy. It is what it is. But, you know, we really tried to come up with something that wasn't too explicit, so that we would avoid what I had anticipated as, you know, some barriers, but they kept coming anyway. And it you could say, Well, is it because the name of the product is c*ck block, partly, but even without people knowing the name, I applied for a small business loan, the bank called me back and said, Well, we could send it downtown, but they might actually cancel all your accounts when they find out what you do and that. And I, you know, there's our first warehouse. So in E commerce businesses, usually you have a contract with what they call a three pl where they store the product. When you get an order, they pick and pack and ship it. It was hard to find one that would store our product, and when we found one, they ended up ripping up our contract because a big box store had a morality they got a contract with a big box store, and they had a morality clause. They weren't even willing to stock our product in a back room, somewhere Alongside this, this other, other big box brand. And probably the biggest issue, I mean, we kind of were able to work around all that. But a lot of, like, you know, existential business risk. You know, early on, but even just three weeks ago, we, you know, a lot of E commerce businesses use Google ads, and we were, our account was shut down again and again, our website, I feel like is about as as non explicit as you can get for a gay sex toy, and they classify us so there's different categories of content. They ended up classifying our content in the same category as the most extreme Internet content that you can imagine. And it's kind of, you know, it's, sometimes it can be soul destroying. You're like, oh my, you know, we're getting traction. You know, people are searching for this product, and then overnight, it shut down. So, you know, I mentioned, to be honest, we're not even really sure why, because you can never get to a human everything's run by these algorithms now. So you're like, is it the word is it c*ck block? Is it because, you know, there's our logo. I feel like this is about as, you know, G rated as you can get for, you know, a two D*ck logo. But is it the logo? Is it because we have a guy with his shirt off, you know, like, like, you know, honestly, we have, I don't know what it is. It could be any of those things we just don't know.

JOE KORT: 23:01

You know, what's really irritating is so you know, I'm a s*x therapist, and I promote and on my social media a lot of s*x therapy stuff. If I talk about s*xual trauma, s*xual compulsivity, s*xual, you know, disorders, I can even get it boosted and advertise it. But if I say sexual pleasure, s*xual, fun, s*x positive. I can't get it out there. They'll take it down. They'll warn me it's it's really, really crazy. People are more comfortable when it's a disorder and something problematic than when it's just something for fun and pleasure. When it comes to s*x.

Justin Depow: 23:35

it's wild. It's wild in like 2026, we're still dealing with this, and it really, it really upsets me, because I feel so strongly that our product helps the queer community, and the idea that this was so frustrating, you have the bank that I'm referring to, I won't name it, you know, every pride they're covered in rainbows and Okay, so you're not going to support me when I'm actually doing something, you know, that has to do with gay s*x. So it just

JOE KORT: 24:03

The gay. The gay community doesn't support it?

Justin Depow: 24:06

No, the bank

JOE KORT: 24:07

Oh the bank, right.

Justin Depow: 24:08

That, you know, covers itself from rainbow flags, every prize, Oh, yeah. I just feel it's so hypocritical that you know you're you're great, as long as we don't talk about, you know, what makes people you know queer, which is, you know, their their s*xual preferences and identity. So it just, I have found it shocking and sometimes really disheartening, but we just keep going. We just try to find other ways of pushing through and reaching our audience.

JOE KORT: 24:35

That's the thing. You just got to keep going, keep doing this. You know, what do you hope as you keep doing this, that c*ck block does to change the culture.

Justin Depow: 24:43

You know, I think, I mean, I think the culture is changing. Like you mentioned, sides. And it's funny, I had never heard this the term sides before we started to prepare for our launch, and it was my associate, Philip, who ran over to me one day, is like, the sides, those are going to be our people. And I. So even I am learning about s*xual diversity within the queer community. So obviously, it's not just for size. As I mentioned, two tops bottom who doesn't want to prepare, someone who just wants some, you know, something, something different. We even have some straight customers, believe it or not. And I think what I'm hoping is that c*ck block becomes part of recognizing that penetration isn't the only type of s*x necessarily. You know, there are other forms of intimacy that can be just as satisfying as as as penetration, and it's that's okay. There's a lot of different ways of having satisfying intimacy with a partner, and you need to do what's right for you. And you know, have great I mean, this is your this is your world. You know, communication and there's, there's, there are ways to, I guess, respect your own desires and your own bodies and be able to do that with somebody else in an intimate way.

JOE KORT: 26:00

And what I love is that you're supporting what I promote, which is outer, course, in addition to intercourse or instead of intercourse. And people their minds blow, even gay guys who engage with a lot of outer cores and and the intercourse isn't always what every gay guy does. And they're like, What do you mean? Like, what else is there? You know? Like, you're constantly having to describe you, so you're fighting against that too, like I am.

Justin Depow: 26:23

And it's so interesting. So we started doing like shows, like I'm sure you've heard of IML International, Mr. Leather, which is wonderful because we went to that. That was our first kind of environment where we could start interacting with customers and potential customers, and parts of the community you know, the members of the community about our product specifically. And it was so fascinating, because I would say, I don't know what the stats would be, but there seemed to be, like, a bunch of people that got it immediately they saw their product. They're like, here it is. Finally, take my money and but there was a pretty I guess there was a larger amount of people at that show who just couldn't figure it out. Like, what do you mean? Why is there a hole in the back as well as two holes in the front? And what do you I don't get it. And it was actually really fascinating that for at least some members of the queer community, the idea of this outer course is so foreign, yes. And we actually had one guy say, well, that's not real s*x. And it was fascinating. And, you know, we weren't, it wasn't like, a better being offended or anything. Was just like, wow. We really have to spend more time and effort on education and hearing about what, you know, what are people's preconceived notions about what's possible for them? Yeah, just like for me, I didn't know what to do because, you know, my medical issues and challenges with s*x, I just felt cornered. And there's so many avenues for people once they kind of open their minds to the possibilities.

JOE KORT: 27:51

And the guy that you said that's not real s*x, I know that guy, and when I say that, I mean that. I get that all the time from all types of different guys who say it's not real s*x, it's immature, it's this, it's that. And then if they say, okay, maybe from a medical disorder, then then it's okay, but if you desire it, and that's what you prefer, and it's just not related to something medical, then then it's even worse.

Justin Depow: 28:13

And so we actually do. I love doing consumer surveys. I love talking to our customers. I love trying to learn what's working, what's not working. So we started asking, you know, from our customer base, like, how many of you consider yourself sides? And it was, it was about 12% which I felt like was a pretty sizable number for something now we're probably attracting sides, you know. So we're probably overrepresented. But the same time, I just found that really fasting and encouraging, that this whole top bottom, you know, either or black and white kind of this binary dichotomy. It doesn't have to be that way, right? I think people are starting to realize that.

JOE KORT: 28:48

that, yeah, in my generation, it wasn't that way. And I'm 60, I'm about to be 63 in the younger generation, it's gotten so much more, bet, you know, rigid about stuff like that.

Justin Depow: 28:58

I think you're right. And I think we actually picked up on that some of the more, I guess, critical or confused comments seem to be more, I'm not gonna say all, but seem to be more from an older crowd. The younger generations did seem to kind of get a little bit faster, except for one guy. There was one young guy who came by, and he was really upset. He said, that's trying to replace me, and I don't like it. And I'm like, No, we're not trying to replace anybody. This is, you know, meant to replace what you like to do. So other than him, it did seem to be, were the older types?

JOE KORT: 29:37

Yeah. Okay. So then one more question would be, what's next? What do you have in your mind to do next?

Justin Depow: 29:43

So what we're really focused on? So as I mentioned, one of the big challenges was, how do you design a product for two c*cks? And what we've learned since is, in addition to being able to have something that can be, you know, as I mentioned, can you be either squeezed or expanded? Something that's really quite, you know, can kind of accommodate most size c*cks. What we are learning is there's still a lot of a range of kind of sensations that that, that that people want. So for example, when we the initial c*ck block, the one that that we launched the inside sleeve, was very purposely not overly textured, because we wanted the two partners to be able to kind of focus on the sensations of their cocks roaming against each other. And while that has been a success, we do hear from customers saying, No, I want something that has more texture, more sensation. So about a year ago, actually about eight months, eight to 10 months ago, we launched new sleeves that provide different textures. So, I mean, you can pull the sleeve in and out. We're almost trying to build cock block to be not just a product but a system where you can, you know, basically build it the way that best suits you and your partner. So LA, as I mentioned, 810, months ago, we launched these new sleeve textures, and we're really excited. So last year was like the the year of the sleeves for us, and this is the year of the cases for us, because we through the feedback. So I mentioned that it isn't a stroker, but we did hear from people that said, I'd like a more stroking experience. I want to be able to stroke it up and down me and my partner. I like how it feels, like how it looks. So we're in about two, three weeks, we're launching what we're calling c*ck block stroke, which is a rounder form factor. You know, it's more handheld c*ck block original, which we're going to rename c*ck block thrust. It's heavy by design. It's meant to be something that you can kind of thrust in and out of mostly hands free. So obviously, that one will still be the original, and we'll still continue to sell that, but soon we're going to have cock block thrust, which is lighter, more handheld, and then, I'm not quite sure yet, because we're still in the prototyping phase, but we're going to launch, who knows what that final name will be, probably c*ck block buzz that has vibration. That was one of the big requests. You want something that vibrates and that induced a whole bunch of other engineering challenges. You know, you have to fit two c*cks from there. How you gonna fit motors, things in there as well, right? So that's what we're working on, and that's this year's plan. But I think if I had to pull back, how can we give a frot, enhanced experience to everybody, regardless of what kind of sensations and form factors and positions they use. Yeah, so that's really where we're pointed, is being kind of the you come to us for frot.

JOE KORT: 32:34

And finally, what is the message and the takeaway you want your mind listeners to hear about your product?

Justin Depow: 32:40

Well, I think, I think the message is, you don't always, you know, you don't always have to have anal to have a satisfying, intimate face to face sexual experience. And that's also one of the things I don't know if I mentioned that was really important to build c*ck block. I wanted something face to face. I mean, you do have alternatives with oral but that's kind of like taking turns and mutual masturbation, but it can get a little bit positionally awkward. So the real goal here was a face to face kind of penetrative experience that isn't anal because it's okay. Anal isn't always convenient. It's not always spontaneous, and for medical reasons or others. It's not always in the cards for some people, and that's fine. There are, there are other ways to have really satisfying s*x with your partner, and c*ck lock can be part of that repertoire,

JOE KORT: 33:30

Which I love your message, because that's my message too. Of course. Where can people find you?

Justin Depow: 33:35

Well, if you want to go to our so c*ck block toys is our main URL. But as I mentioned, we are having some issues around marketing, and we're not even really sure if the word's c*ck, but we're going to be launching, we actually have launched, it's gonna be a new umbrella brand, so I'm announcing it here. First www.swordplay.com, S, W, O, R, D, P, l, A, Y, and that's going to become, we're going to become, we're going to transition to that as our kind of, our home brand, with c*ck block as our kind of sub brand, our main product, but then possibly other products down the road that meet some of more of those other kind of use cases and positions. So stay tuned. We're so excited to have lots in the pipeline.

JOE KORT: 34:18

Yeah, it's great, it's, it's, and it's so great. You're so open minded. It's expanding and changing, and you're adapting, and it's going to become a better and better product, and the fact that it already is so thank you so much. Justin for coming on my podcast.

Justin Depow: 34:30

Thank you so much. It was an honor to speak with you. I really enjoyed it.

JOE KORT: 34:34

Thank you so much. All right, so those of you that follow me, you can listen to this podcast on www.smartsexsmartlove.com, it'll be also on my website, Joe court, J, O, E, K O, R T .com, and then wherever else, you can listen to podcast Apple Spotify, and you can find me on many of the platforms, TikTok, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, and all of my names are. At@DrJoeKort, D, R, J, O, E, K, O, R, T. I hope you enjoyed this smart sex, smart love podcast today and stay healthy and stay safe and see you next time.