Top Certs for 2023

Building off of last week's Top Skills for 2023 episode, this week we talk about the Top Certifications for 2023. Curious about a cert to take? Not sure where to start? Tune in and let us break it all down! 

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Transcript

Pat: 0:30

Hello everybody. Welcome back to this week's edition of Breaking Down the Bites. As usual, I'm your host, Pat. You can find me on Twitter at layer8packet. That's the number eight. Kyle is with me as well. He's on Twitter at@Danath256. Alex, you're back for a second show. I can't believe you came back for a second. Show you like the first one so much and here we are again. So, you could also find the show on Twitter@breakinbytespod. So we're pretty active on Twitter, so come say hello. What's up fellas? How you doing? Another week.

Kyle: 1:04

What's going on?

Alex: 1:05

Excited to build off the momentum of last week's episode.

Pat: 1:08

right. Yeah. We do have some good momentum coming on last week's episode, so that we're excited to move forward here and uh, get rolling. So, we are gonna build off of last week at least a little bit. So last week we talked about the most InDemand skills for 2023 going forward, and this week we are talking. Top certs for 2023. So if you're thinking either you're starting out in the cert game, not sure what avenue you wanna go to, or if you need to refresh a cert or wanna go in a different direction these are some of the top certs for 2023. I think we have some good ones here, so we. Get rolling on some of these. So any opening comments fellas on how we kind of came with this list and how we kind of approached it from our network brains and angle

Alex: 1:59

Well, yeah. Last episode we talked about the best skills for 2023, so. The certs that I'm picking as the top are gonna go hand in hand with the skills that we picked. And I guess the other big thing, and I know I mentioned it in the last episode too, is we're not just suggesting you do these certs to be bullets on your resume. They should be as a means to learn something. And so these are great structured learning, but syllabus and topics that will legitimately help. So, sure, put it on your resume, put it on your LinkedIn. But remember, end goal is learn something.

Pat: 2:38

It's right. You wanna soak it in like the sponge. Your brain is, It's a big sponge. Get all the knowledge you can. We're gonna rock and roll. That means you, Kyle, I expect a cert outta you in

Kyle: 2:48

ah, much pressure.

Pat: 2:51

So much pressure. I can't take it. No. So I guess, Alex, you wanna set this one up? I know you were, Like I said we're building off of last week. And the one that, that. Itching to mention here has all the makings of last week's episode of what we talked about skill-wise. So go ahead and kick this one off.

Alex: 3:09

All right, fair enough. So, Yeah, when I made this list, the first thing that came to mind was the Cisco DevNet Associate track, and I really can't think of any other certification. If there's anyone that can think of one, let me know. But any cert that actually covers as many topics that we talked about last week just going through the syllabus just before this call, just to double check my understanding of what's on the syllabus. Some of the major topics are automation, but that's broken down into Python Ansible. 15% is network fundamentals, which was another thing that we talked about, Get containers. Docker I think we may have touched on APIs a little bit, but it just goes back to automation. But of what do we list? 10 skills. Yes. Last week, I forget

Pat: 4:01

I think

Alex: 4:01

but either way, we're talking at least half of The topics that were mentioned last week are huge topics on the Cisco DevNet associate, and for that reason, that's my number one cert for 2023. So I don't know if anyone here has looked at it, has read any books. Thinking about doing it in 2023. I can tell you I took at least one course so far. I did buy the book, so it's on my radar for 2023. So I think this'll be my first cert in a while. I mean, I've renewed my cc I E a few times, but I don't think I've gotten a new cert in probably five or six years. So I think this'll break that streak.

Pat: 4:45

I'm like you I took the plunge and got the Cisco DevNet OCG with the official cert guide as the cool kids call it.

Alex: 4:53

Yeah.

Pat: 4:53

I bought that couple months back and I made it to like chapter three and it's fully yellow highlight and all this stuff, and then I just never got back to it. So I definitely have to get back to that. But but yeah I'm kinda like you Alex. I, before, before this year all my Cisco stuff expired, right? So I had an NP and two ccna and two different tracks, right? Route switch and security. And then I had a CCNP in route switch. And they all expired for, for one reason or another. And it's not from a lack of trying, I just, I couldn't pass another CCMP exam. So that's the full disclosure. I'm coming cleaning on this podcast. I couldn't renew it, so, But no as of this year I got two. But before that it was, a good good couple years since I had an actual cert under my belt. I got two this year. I got the the Azure Fundamentals, the AZ 900, that was just like two months ago. And then all in January, I passed the Palo Alto, the PCNSA. The Palo will stick with me for, I think it's two or three years. The Azure 900 never expires. So I'll be a, I'll be a fundamental Azure guy forever and ever. So it's all good. But no yeah I think DevNet is huge. I think that's going to be the monster in the room. And I think Cisco's done a nice job with that. Everybody's sort of used to Cisco's path and how they do things with their search structure and things of that nature. And then the DevNet came out and everybody. Whoa. That is a heavy duty one. Like you didn't expect that realm, but like, like, like we said last week, network engineers are sort of blending with software engineers and we were sort of the network as a whole, the industry as a whole was sort of the last to, or one of the last to get on the. The boat with with automation. So I think this was a huge step forward in trying to get more network guys to be more friendlier to automation as a whole in that space. And While I mention that, I wanna mention a good podcast for automation. If you're really interested in network automation specifically check out the Network Automation Nerds podcast. Eric Cho. He is a phenomenal DevNet guy. He's written books, he's network dev uh, a DevOps I should say. Network engineer for forever. And he does a podcast network Automation Nerds podcast. So he's got a ton of good guests on air. So if you're into the automation side of things, definitely check out his stuff. He's got some really cool stuff. So that is my plug for good friend of the shows Eric Show. So that's cool. But yeah, I think DevNet is gonna be huge going forward and trying to do that. And I guess I'll take a page out of what I've been doing lately in the day to day things. I'm gonna go cloud for the second one I guess. And I. I would say any sort of cloud cert is probably a safe bet. But the one I'm gonna mention is the elephant in the room, if you will. It's the AWS solutions architect the saa, I guess that's what they call it, the architect associate. So yeah, that, that's a big one. But you could also put in there, the Azure AZ 1 0 4, which is, the Azure equivalent of the Solu AWS Solutions architects things of that nature. So yeah, anything cloud, I could definitely. Kind of plug in there. But I went with the AWS solutions architect because AWS has got the biggest share in the cloud, so people, more people are on it. So, but you can't go wrong with any cloud cert in this day and age. Really?

Alex: 8:06

Yeah, and I know the solutions architect that is AWS's, I think second in line. So I guess we probably should say that if you wanna start with cloud practitioner that's probably the path you want to take. But I Cloud is so important right now. It's almost like a two for we're really suggesting do the cloud practitioner and then do your solutions architect.

Pat: 8:26

Yep,

Alex: 8:27

Of'em as a, a duo that you can strive for in 2023.

Pat: 8:31

yep. Agreed. And Microsoft has their practitioner esque one as well, which is the A 900, which I pass. This like two months ago. They call it Azure Fundamentals. Like I said, never expires. It'll be with you to forever. So, yeah, so there, that's the twofer on the, in two of the major the biggest players in that space. So for sure on the on the cloud stuff. Kyle, what do you got? You got one.

Kyle: 8:54

Yeah. I'm gonna go with the one that everybody's been asking me about and talking about like to um, red in the face kind of deal is security Plus is. Just everybody I mean, even one of the guys that I was talking with today at work, he was like, I'm going for my security plus, what do you think? And I'm like, I mean, yeah, it's great. I was like another one of the guys that I used to work with, he just got it a couple months back. Comp TIA certification seems to round everything out. Your risk management, your, if you wanna be, systems administrator, network administrator, security administrator kind of deal like. Has some of the basic stuff up into, advanced things with, wireless some penetration testing, stuff like that. Seems to be a the buzz stuff that I've, I've been seeing people get into. As well. I mean, obviously cloud is gonna, can always be there doing its thing, but that'd be the one that I, I'd kinda shoot for. Maybe just cuz I know everybody that I know is going for it. Seems like it'd be a good one.

Alex: 9:54

Well, I, one thing that the Comptia certs have going for'em, that it might be the only one on the list that we thought of so far is it's vendor agnostic. I mean, I Obviously we're going to, we just talked about Cisco. We just talked about AWS and Azure. So this one is, Security fundamentals that are gonna apply to any vendor. So a lot more on practices versus just syntax and uh, Hardware related questions. So that's definitely a benefit cuz I was even gonna mention, but I didn't wanna like anything negative about the Cisco DevNet. But if there is anything negative, I will have to say about the Cisco DevNet having gone through the syllabus is 15. Of the actual material on it is completely vendor specific. I mean, really vendor specific things like uh, Meraki and NXOS things that are very specific to Cisco. So, 85% of that exam is perfect, 15% of it. It'll benefit you in the right circumstances, but at least with security plus, you'll have to worry about. So how about you Pat? Is there anything else in the security track that you're thinking of? There's one in my mind and you actually could have segued into it earlier, cuz I think you mentioned you got the

Pat: 11:18

That's it. I could've yeah, so, just a real quick plug for the security plus stuff. One of our very first episodes on this show was with Plural site uh, instructor Christopher Reese. And he is the, he has a security plus. Course out there on Pluralsight. So if you're into the, into Security Plus or want to know a little bit more about it, christopher pluralsight.com. I actually took his course. I didn't take the cert, but I took the course Chris, and it was really well done. He's really easy to understand. He breaks it down. Quite nicely. So, and he is also a fan of the show, so shout out to Chris if he's listening and, plug his stuff cuz he's really good. So I'm gonna check him out on PluralSite if you're a security plus wanderer. So go with that. But to round out Alex's question. Yeah, I think I, and we touched about it a little bit last week but I think Palo Alto and now those cert tracks are starting to. Come together. They don't have as many as Cisco does. Obviously, Cisco's sort of the king in that. Networking space, but I think Palo Alto just due to, how many of'em are out there the gains that they've made over the last couple of years, I think you can't go wrong with that either if you're looking for the network security space specifically for that. So, yeah, definitely Palo Alto, like I said, in January I passed the PC N S A so that was awesome. There are a couple more PCNSE, which is the engine. The A is the administrator side, the E is the engineer side. There's a cloud security engineer out there that they have an automation engineer search. So there's five or six of'em in that pocket that p does, but. PCNSA is sort of the it's the CCNA level, if you will. It's, there is one previous one. It's an entry level one, the PCCET, I know it's kind of a mouthful, but that would be like the CC E N T years ago from the Cisco side. So to kind of break in. And then the PC C NS A is the middle of the road, and then the PCNSE is the. The engineer CCNP equivalent, right? So there's a couple of'em there. Like I said, the cloud is there, the cloud one is there, the automation is there things of that nature. So there's a couple of'em, but the PCNSA is pretty popular. PC PCNs A is pretty popular, so, and I see more and more of it out there from the Palo side. So, you know where I'm at. We're a heavy Cisco shop where I'm at, Firepower and FMC and all that kind of stuff. But but pow has definitely come on in the last couple of years, and everybody I talked to absolutely loves'em. Now, they're expensive. There's no bones about it, and people will tell you that, but but the engineers that actually work with them love'em, absolutely love'em. They don't have a bad thing to say about'em. So I was like, Oh, let me see what this is about. And took the course. The previous job paid for it, and I went and took it. So it's all good there. But yeah, Palo is definitely they're getting more the share and more people are using them. So, it can't hurt in 2023 for sure.

Alex: 14:03

Yeah, and I mentioned last week when we were talking about Palo Altos, I made the comment that in my last few jobs we started taking out Cisco's and putting in Palo Altos, and I was confident that the market share is really shifting towards Palo Alto. Once that, that I did look at, and I know we talked about it before the recording here, but in the last 10 years, Palo Alto. Compared to Cisco, went from about a quarter of the market share that Cisco had so forth to now they actually are above Cisco. So at this point they have about 15% more of a market share than Cisco does at the beginning of 2022. So in the course of 10 years, from a fourth of what Cisco has to being now the new king of the firewall.

Pat: 14:53

Yeah, like I said, I've used them. I've used, met a couple places and whatnot. And I have a couple play virtual boxes here at the new place. And it does seem to work pretty well and they're usually pretty friendly as far as from a gooey perspective. And, the logging is real nice. There's no big mystery to that. And it's it's real nice. So yeah, Palo, if you're into that into the network security stuff, pow alto is not a bad look. In that direction at all. So that's my, that's mine up there. Like I said, people take that with a grain of salt, there's probably others that are a little more deserving, but from a network security space, I, I think they deserve a mention for sure.

Alex: 15:30

Yeah.

Pat: 15:31

Who wants to take the last one? Or not a last one, but the next one I should say.

Alex: 15:36

The last one of the big ones that we

Pat: 15:38

Yeah. Yeah.

Alex: 15:40

I know we're all biased, right? but. It's still the king. I still, maybe AWS is getting close to how many people take it, but is there really anything more synonymous with IT certifications than the ccna? And not. I don't think it is, but as of today, I still say network fundamentals is going to help you in any IT role you have.

Pat: 16:08

Yep.

Alex: 16:09

You don't have to be a network engineer to benefit from. Knowing how IP addresses work, and for that re and then the ccna Pat you mentioned it already, that the ccna, they. It's been adapted for the current work that we're seeing. And now they have introductions to automation and topics like that where they didn't used to. So I think people that are going into ccna, they might not immediately realize that it isn't just. Router switches. You do have things that are gonna get you that first look into automation and scripting. So yeah, for me I'm still gonna suggest anyone in it who doesn't already have it. Look at this.

Pat: 16:57

I can't argue that. I think CCNA is still the elephant in the room when it comes. It certs, it's sort of, it's a great starting point. And no matter what you do after that, whether you stay in the network vein or you go other places, that network knowledge that you're gonna carry and learn helps you in any sort of vein that you end up landing in right. Security or dev or systems guy like you, we see it all the time. It's like, Developers or any of these guys and they're developing app, whatever. And then, a lot of'em can't tell me what ports they use and it's just like, I gotta know what ports they use because I have to open them on a firewall. So, you see that a lot. So any sort of network fundamentals that you can take with you that sort of spreads across multiple IT tentacles, I think certainly helps in that space. So, yeah, definitely ccna. I guess I wanna get your thoughts on too, cause Kyle, you mentioned something before we hit record, but do you think. Any of the comp Tia, or I don't wanna cheapen'em by saying entry level or low level. Certs helps folks that are already in the IT field, say, I don't know, say five years. So if I'm a, if I'm a help desk guy with five years under my belt of doing, level one service desk, whatever you wanna call it. Is the a plus or net plus or anything like that, is that gonna help me get to the next level? And I don't necessarily know if it does. I think once you're already in, you getting that piece of paper and an a plus isn't, you're not learning anything you don't already know because you have the five years under your belt. I, I, that's just me. I don't know if everybody's got any other feelings.

Kyle: 18:38

no, yeah I would have to agree with you with that cuz it's like, I know people like wanna grind out certs or get certs to to maybe advance, but. If you kind of aiming for a cert that's a little below where you're already at, I don't know if it's gonna be that advantageous in like your growth, Like I've been doing it I've, been doing troubleshooting and tech support and all that kind of stuff and now I got my plus. Is that really gonna help you grow? Probably not. You probably covered most of those things before you even took the cert. Net plus though, I mean that might be a little useful for somebody that isn't super heavy into networking or once they get their feet wet, kind of move that direction. Might be a good jump. Same thing, Security plus, but you know, like Alex said though, it's probably good cuz they're kind of agnostic of any kind of specific brand or hardware, vendor. So you get like a nice kind of rounded out. Knowledge in general, that doesn't like use this thing cuz it's the best,

Pat: 19:38

yeah, it's interesting. Alex, what do you think about that?

Alex: 19:41

Well, you mentioned five years. Maybe that's a little excessive to think that Comp Tia a plus. Would help. And I do, That's another one. The A plus exam has, it's evolved as well. It's not the same exam it was 15 years ago. They do cover things that we mentioned before as being top skills that anyone who hasn't taken it recently might not be aware of. There are some things on Linux on it. They touch on. Virtualization and cloud concepts. There is some basic networking 1 0 1. There are some security one oh ones, so I, I wouldn't. Rule it out five years. Again, it might be a little bit much, but anyone who's fresh outta college and still looking for that first job, I mean, I could see pointing em in that direction. I think the audience that we have has probably been in it a little longer than that.

Pat: 20:37

Yep.

Alex: 20:38

So that's my thought. My, my guess is if you've been, if you had three plus years of experience, you're probably, you should know just about everything that's on the a plus exam.

Pat: 20:48

Yeah, no, that's a

Alex: 20:49

back to what I said earlier. Don't take a cert just to have it on your resume. If you're not actually gonna gain anything from doing it,

Kyle: 20:56

right.

Alex: 20:57

don't do it. There's no point.

Pat: 20:59

I would agree with Alex in saying, look, if you got two, three years under your belt, it's definitely five. I don't think that a plus is helping you to the. Degree that you think it will be. But yeah, if you're a college student, or even if you're a mid-level, or I should say, career change person, right? So, and I know a lot of people that not know a lot of people, but I, you follow trends in this industry and you. You figure out who's who. And there's a couple people on Twitter that follow us and we follow you right back. And, we kind of dig in a little bit just, you know, in your profile and this and that. And I, you know what I see a lot of, I see a lot of like, middle aged folks, that are now having it as a second career, right? So truck drivers or those types of folks that say, You know what, I'm gonna start at something brand new. Like yeah, the A plus is gonna. Those folks I think, from a completely new, standpoint sort of thing. So that, yeah, those are the things I would say, two, three years, five years in, probably not, but the college kid and the, it as a second life person. Definitely. For sure. I think the a plus definitely helps and get some introduced. The, the IT life, if you will, and we've all lived that life. So maybe that's a show idea too. The lifestyle,

Alex: 22:12

Yeah. And again, going back to what I said about how the exam has evolved a little bit, I think some people still think of a plus as just someone who can build a computer from scratch and install an os. It is quite a bit more than that. Just think of just entry level topics and high overviews of lots of different things in addition to. What's ram? What's a hard drive?

Pat: 22:38

Yeah.

Alex: 22:38

that too, but there's more to it than just that

Pat: 22:41

Yep. No, I would agree yeah, I was wondering that. Like I, just I wasn't sure if I was alone in thinking of my train of thought there. I'm glad you guys were on board. I like that. I'm not on an island. Alright the other one I would mention, this is more in the security vein. I feel like this is pretty popular nowaday. Is the C I S M. I don't know what, I don't know how people pronounce it. I'm not quite in the security space, but but basically it's the certified Information Security Manager, but that's more for folks that are a little longer in the two um, 20 ish years, experience designing, managing IT, security programs, things of that nature. That's more of a a leadership position in risk management and, it disciplines, right? That sort of thing, but that's a popular one too, that's pretty hot. For the list that we've seen and just industry trends and following a couple security minded folks on Twitter and LinkedIn and that sort of thing. This cert comes up quite a bit and so we figured it would be worth a mention here, even though it's not our expertise or our kind of avenue. I think it, deserves a.

Alex: 23:43

Yeah, and I think in the security track too, there's two certs that I used to hear a lot of and maybe I hear less of it now. So I don't know if that's just because. My career's changed a little bit, so they're not quite on my radar, but I, the certified ethical hacker came up a lot. I don't know if that's still something that people were really into. The C I S S P almost in my eyes, had this. I think it was almost like on a pedestal as like the c c I, it really seemed like a really big accomplishment and

Pat: 24:13

I would agree.

Alex: 24:14

would really strive for. And I don't know if that's still the case. If I think at one point you even had to be VO by an existing C S S S P, it was some interesting. Things you had to do and actually to get that. So if anyone, any CISSPs that are really adamant about, that's the one to get. Let us know. I hope I'm not offending anyone. I'm just wondering if that's still one that's on people's radars.

Pat: 24:38

That's it. I actually knew a C I S S P. Actually he, him and I went to high school together. He was two years behind me, but then we ended up working at the same company together, a couple companies back, and he actually got his C I S S P while he worked as a it. For the company that we work for. So, he's definitely, he was stoked about that. So I, yeah that's a big one. But yeah I would agree with Alex, the C I S S P a couple years ago, all you heard about was the C I S S P. Like, it seemed like everybody was striving for that or trying to climb that mountain. And it was a high mountain, according to my buddy Kevin. Shout out to Kevin if he listens, but yeah. He really went hard at that and for a couple years there, there was, the C I S S P was super, super hot.

Alex: 25:20

Yeah. I guess in that same vein, is there any other certs that you guys are just curious about and have seen once or twice? Maybe you're a little bit interested in, but maybe not something you feel comfortable saying. It's the go-to cert. So I mean, we brought up CEH and C I S S P A see ITIL come up once in a while. Also, I don't know if that's something other tech managers or leaders. Is that something you still look for? Is there something that's similar that's even better, would be interested to. So is there anything else you guys can think of that you're even have some question

Pat: 25:56

I I would probably say there was, there's two on my list that I've seen that are popular. And I know a few people that have this first one I'm gonna mention it's not technically I don't know. I. It's not in the technical space that you and I are in but it it's more of a supporting role, I should say. But the project management professional, the pmp, I feel like that's a big one. A lot of people a lot of project managers strive for that. That's kind of their gold star. Standard. That was, again, a couple years ago. It was hot. A lot of people were kind of getting that, but you know, that's over project management and how to juggle people and, that's a whole nother ball of wax and juggling people's personalities and, getting projects done on time. Shout out to them it's like hurting cats, right. So so shout out to that one. But yeah, PMP used to, was.

Alex: 26:41

Yeah, I'd be interested. I think that was another one that had some pretty impressive requirements to get something like that. So I think that's also one that you have to do more than just pass an exam. I think there's more to it than that.

Pat: 26:53

Yep.

Alex: 26:54

Yeah. But I would be interested in it. Cuz one of the skills that we talked about, Again last week that none of these exams really cover is communication skills. So I'm wondering if the project management professional, and I haven't looked at what that all entails, but if you are a project manager, I would imagine that it's going to discuss communication to some degree. So if we're gonna claim that's the best skill that you can have in 2023, maybe it makes sense to put a certification track on that covers that. And maybe that's something that's also in the I till track and. Any PMPs or ITIL guys, you let us know if that's covered at all in that.

Pat: 27:34

Yeah, I would agree.

Alex: 27:36

yeah, it's definitely popular. I just looked it up here. There's over a million PMP certified people, so yeah, that really, that is popular And that's as of 2020. So I assume there's even more now.

Pat: 27:48

Yeah. That's, Wow that number shocks me.

Alex: 27:52

1,036,368 as of July 31st, 2020. So yeah, a lot of people So yeah, we might have missed the, one of the more populars in the world.

Pat: 28:06

Missed the boat on that one. Re rewind. No Yeah, PMP was something that I've heard about the other one too. And we sort of touched on it last week with our Docker and containerized discussions, but I feel, and I know a few people that have this the vcp, the VMware certified professional, that was hot a few years ago as well. Like, I, I don't know how hot it is now. I'm sure it still is. But I think. I think going forward the container stuff is really going to, I don't stay take a, it's gonna take a chunk. I don't know how large of a chunk, I guess is probably my my, my statement there of how that takes in. But the VCP stuff was hot years ago and a lot of people had it and, and it's still hot today. I just don't know where that's gonna go.

Alex: 28:56

Right. Yeah. And, and And just like VMware came out with the vcp Docker and Kubernetes, they have their own versions of it. And I was thinking about putting that on the list too, because of how important I think, Container technology is, but I did wanna stay away from something that was very vendor specific. Cuz I guess you can fall into the same boat that the VCP does now. It's losing market share and it's slowly starting to not be as relevant. But yeah, if people, the Cisco DevNet is the track that covers container technologies in a. High level. So I don't know if there's anything else there that would give you a better just preview into container technologies outside of just going straight into the very vendor specific ones. I mean, at this point, Docker and Kubernetes are so big that I wouldn't fault anyone for looking into those specific ones.

Pat: 29:51

Yep. Nope, that's a good one. Yeah I see I till as well kind of floating around there. I don't know maybe this is out there, You know, what's higher up on this list even though it's the, this is not meant to sound negatively, but it's the smaller of the three cloud providers. The certs are sort of, They hold weight is some of the Google certs that are out here. The Google certified professional cloud architect and the associate cloud engineer that Google has that kind of shocked me cuz they have a smaller footprint in the market. Azure and AWS are the big boys in the room, and AWS being the biggest boy in the room. I was surprised to see that the GCP stuff showed up so frequently on these lists and steadily across, multiple lists that, that we've, that we're kind of plucking from.

Alex: 30:39

Yeah. I think part of that is Google doesn't have an insignificant market share, but I think they even have a less. Share of certified people. So in other words, say they have 10% of the market, they might only have 2% of people that are actually going through that track. So find people that are experts in GCP are a lot harder to find than people that are experts at aws. Even though aws, you're probably more likely to find

Pat: 31:11

No, that's a good point. I didn't think of it that way.

Alex: 31:14

Yeah, so I guess it's a catch 22. You might be able to make more if you find the right job and you have that very specialized skill set, but it's gonna be harder to find that job. So I think that's kind of where I am with gcp. They have such a smaller market share than Azure and AWS that probably only suggest it if the company you're with right now is using it. And if they are, by all means go for it.

Pat: 31:41

Right. Yep. No, that's a good point. I'm and I'll ask you guys this cause I'm not sure, So this is a and this is for anybody listening if you're in this track. But what do you guys think of like the big data stuff that are, that's coming? Cause I see big data being, huge in the next couple of years. I don't know if there's actual like, cert for it or anything like that, or if it's agnostic or what that looks like, but I think big data. Buzzword, if you will, for a lack of a better term. People that actually crunch numbers and tables and all that big data and make it work for you. Do you see that? You see that coming, You see that being big? What's that look like, Kyle?

Kyle: 32:17

I, I would say for sure I mean, that's what everybody wants to collect. All the time, right? It's the data's for the money. The data is your analytics and how you can predict everything and do your forecasting and whatnot. So I don't think it's going anywhere. And the more devices you have and logged into and connected to is just more data for somebody to, to capture and have to parse through to, to make sense of something. So I don't think data's going anywhere for a long.

Pat: 32:45

Yeah, that's a good point. What do you think?

Alex: 32:48

Yeah. I think it'd be tough to find just a big data, like, I mean, you can under, you understand what they're getting. The whole idea is it's analytics. I mean, when you boil it down to it, and it just seems like everybody has their own version of big data. I mean, going back to aws, they have cloud watch, which is just pulling every data point that you can think of from AWS resources and then making

Pat: 33:13

In

Alex: 33:14

intelligent out of it.

Pat: 33:15

Right.

Alex: 33:16

Hey, you could save yourself X amount of dollars if you did this, or yeah it's certainly important and I think what you'll see is networks get bigger, Environments get bigger. The amount of data you can collect is going to get more granular and bigger, and all these places are just gonna have their own version of what they do with that. So, as I mentioned, cloud watch with aws. I'm sure Azure has something similar. And I don't know if anyone has a huge stranglehold on, I mean maybe you could say solar wins. I don't know who's the other big player. Ken Tick is getting bigger and bigger. But just the idea of just collecting datas and doing something with it. But I think everyone's just kind of making their own in-house version of it, cuz no one's really come up with something that's. Better than anything else.

Pat: 34:07

Yeah.

Alex: 34:08

be nice to have a single pane of glass, but

Kyle: 34:10

Yeah.

Alex: 34:12

Don New has the best one.

Pat: 34:14

Yeah. Maybe we'll get there one day, today's not that day.

Kyle: 34:18

No

Pat: 34:19

tomorrow doesn't look good either. So.

Alex: 34:21

look. Yeah. These places they'll go the apple or out, and then they'll just make everything just Unique to them, or no one else can digest that information, so you have to use their version of it. Like I'm sure some of the stats you get from CloudWatch, you couldn't possibly export it to something, and maybe that's what Amazon wants.

Pat: 34:41

Yeah.

Alex: 34:42

We'll see.

Pat: 34:43

Yeah, that's an interesting take on that. Yeah, for sure. Any other SEARCHs you guys can think of? Kyle or Alex?

Kyle: 34:52

I'm gonna throw it out there cuz I guess I'm on this

Pat: 34:54

Here. Here we go. All right.

Kyle: 34:57

Plus,

Pat: 34:59

All right.

Kyle: 35:00

right? I

Alex: 35:02

That's how

Kyle: 35:02

I, I, I didn't until just right now. so I was looking it up, seeing what else they got. So they do cloud architecture and design. They're doing security deployment operations and troubleshooting. So there's another one if you want to be vendor agnostic, maybe you just want to get your feet wet. You don't really know which way you're gonna go, or you need the good fundamentals before you pick a direction or something like that. Cloud Plus, there it is. There's my pitch

Pat: 35:31

That's it. He hit the trifecta today, A plus sec, plus net plus and cloud Plus, he hit the He's four for four on the come to you Uh,

Kyle: 35:42

your nearest uh, Pearson Testing Center,

Pat: 35:45

right. Pearson View for the win. That's right

Alex: 35:48

Yeah, I'll have to look at that. I mean, wouldn't it be surprised if that's just chapter one, AWS chapter two, Azure chapter three, gcp Yeah. And but maybe I could be wrong. Yeah. Cause I never really thought of the idea of a cloud. Environment just being comparable across the board. I always kind of thought that AWS is completely unique to Azure and maybe if I did look back and just kind of stood back and looked at both, I'd realize that they have a lot more similarities than I'd give them credit for. And maybe if that's the case, then I could see where Cloud Plus would make sense. But yeah, I guess the way I've always thought of it,

Kyle: 36:32

Yeah.

Alex: 36:33

so unique that can you really have a cloud agnostic certification? Like apparently you do. So curious to see what's it

Kyle: 36:45

Well, I think you even opened uh, Pat in my eyes back to the A plus, cuz you know, we're still thinking of it. What it was 15 years ago, And you're like, no, it's got some valid stuff in here. And like you're explaining, I'm like, Oh man, that is valid. Here I am. Like, ping on it. And it's, it sounds like it's a pretty good thing.

Alex: 37:04

Oh yeah. On second thought, everybody get the a plus

Kyle: 37:07

Yeah. Get the A plus

Pat: 37:09

Don't listen to Kyle in this podcast. Just, I'm just gonna mute him in the editing. I'm just gonna take him out. Yeah, I guess there was one more question I had. And maybe this is a little bit of a rabbit hole question, but all this certification talk and we just went over, what, 40 minutes or so of different certs and what we think is popular and, coming down the pipe and all this. I guess, it, it goes back to the age old question, right? The certs really make a difference. And I guess the answer is like, everything in it is, it depends, right? So I've worked at places where, people think certs are great. I've worked at places where people think certs aren't worth the paper they're printed on. So there's really a widespread, and I guess it boils down to management and, that sort of thing, but there's really a widespread opinion on if certs really do matter or make a difference versus if they're just a cash avenue for a lot of these companies. So, I don't know, college your take on that as far as what you think.

Kyle: 38:05

I, I really think it might have to just come down to the in individual I mean, the content's there, as long as it's. Quality, you know what I mean? And, the person digests it well and can, regurgitate or use whatever that they learned then. Sure. But I've also, I mean personally in, in working in this have met people that have alphabet soup after their name, different this cert and that cert, and you ask'em something and they're just. Uh, And you're like, Well, you passed the test. Like, how did you get there? Like, and they just studied for the test and then like, couldn't really learn or use the stuff. So I think it might be down to the individual and, I'm sure a lot of the harder certs, people aren't just memorizing the tests and kind of getting through it without learning a lot of good useful skills.

Pat: 38:52

Yeah, I would agree with that. Alex, what do you think? I think I know where you're coming from, but go ahead,

Alex: 38:58

Well, I said it earlier. there's people that just get cert so they can put it on a resume and they think that's their way to get a job or a raise, and if that's the attitude you're gonna take, then they're worthless. I just think that these exams just break down. Generally. They break down what you need to know in a way that makes it I mean, for the most part just looking at the Cisco DevNet track, so I'm not really too concerned about getting the certification, but I'm interested in the syllabus and that's why I even mentioned that there's a big section of it that's Cisco proprietary. And if I may not take the exam and I may just skip. The Cisco for Fire Tell parts of trainings that I see online because it's just not relevant to me. And I just wanna be able to go through the syllabus when I'm done and say, Yep. APIs, json, yaml, I know all this stuff. Python scripting, Cisco Meraki, Nah, don't care next. And if people take that approach and they treat the cert as a bonus thing to get, then. That can prove what you know then so be it. But I'll keep saying it takes certs as a means to learn something and nothing else.

Kyle: 40:13

Yeah.

Pat: 40:14

Yep. I agree and I think it does matter. Company wise, I think I've said this before but I'm gonna say it again. I think company, it matters to a company if they can push that cert to their clients. Like, so for

Alex: 40:32

Yeah, that's true.

Pat: 40:33

Alex, you and I, we worked at Evolve ip, which was a cloud company early on. But their bread and butter was voice, right? So, Alex, you got your CC I at Evolve and I got my ccmp at Evolve, and, I think they do better in tech related industries, right? So then they can turn around and say, that, that's a sales pitch to a. Client coming in say, Look, we have this many ccis, we have this many people on staff with a aws, whatever, or whatever. Now if you're working at a, whatever, a non-tech company that doesn't sell tech as part of their, yeah as their main bread and butter, then. The clients that they're trying to attract a CCIE means nothing to them cause they don't know what it is. Right. So I think that is a big driving factor as well. Now that's not to say go out and work for a huge msp Right. So they have their drawbacks as well. But, but I think I think you have to find the right mix of Okay. And everywhere I've been companys paid for certs, I've been reimbursed. It does really matter as far as, fit, that sort of thing. So yeah, I think, like I said some managers loved them. Some managers didn't think they were worth the paper they were printed on. Much for what Kyle said, as far as you have alphabet suit behind your name and you don't know how to. You don't know how to put a static IP address on a Windows machine. So, it's like, it's one of those things. But I do think environment matters and that you tend to be more respected if you're in the actual if your industry is in the tech industry, not just an IT department for a non-tech industry. If that makes sense.

Alex: 42:12

Yeah. Yep. I can see. I would also say I think certs are a bit more helpful than newer. The technology is so, so Docker and containers are so new that I think it really stands out, Oh, someone went through the hassle of actually getting a Docker certification, so that really stands out. And the same, I think it also helps more than newer you are to tech in general. I mean, if you don't have 20 years to back up. Your ability then just showing that you got a cert or two, that helps. So if you're going for a junior role in X technology and you manage to get a cert in that technology, I mean, it's better than nothing. So I think in those cases they could be helpful. And if I'm hiring a junior network engineer, it probably stand out to me if they got a ccna. I mean, if they're going against somebody that. Has just gone to school and that's all they had, versus someone who's just gone to school and got a ccna. That might resonate a little bit more with me, but yeah, someone that's been in the field 30 years and then decides to go out and get their ccnp for the sake of getting a ccmp, it really isn't gonna do anything. I'm not gonna think too much of it.

Pat: 43:27

Yep. I agree. So, yeah, so just take that for what it's worth in that last couple minute conversation as far as certifications. Cause I thought, oh well I get the cert, this and that and people are gonna be knocking at my door and, it.

Alex: 43:40

the circuit. The bag.

Pat: 43:42

Yeah, You're right. Exactly. It didn't actually happen that way, so, but no I, some folks can get really discouraged if they go out and get a cert and then the company is just like, Yeah, that's great, but we don't really have any room for you or whatever. And yeah, then you know, it's time to go. So don't hang your hat on, you get the new cert. It's an accomplishment. Yep. You studied for it, you passed it. Awesome job. That sort of thing. But don't let it sort of, if you, if your company doesn't see the value in it, don't let that deject you from, either hop into a new place or finding a new role within said company, I guess.

Kyle: 44:15

right?

Alex: 44:16

Well, yeah. And use that knowledge to show it's worth. I mean, if you pass the AWS solutions architect and you're using AWS in your environment today, and you learned enough to start jumping in the fires when you didn't used to. So you use that as your means to move up, not the fact that it's on your resume now.

Pat: 44:37

that's it. Yeah. that's it. All right, boys we're right around that hour mark. Maybe we're just a little shy of it. Any other parting thoughts, questions, comments, concerns? Speak now or forever? Hold your piece.

Alex: 44:50

No hopeful that this is gonna resonate with somebody, and maybe they'll get them on a cert track and they'll learn something from it. hoping that in the weeks to come that maybe we can dive down into these skills a little bit more specifically, maybe get a subject matter expert on. That'll be fun.

Pat: 45:11

Yeah.

Alex: 45:12

yeah, that's all I got.

Pat: 45:14

Cool. Kyle, you good?

Kyle: 45:16

I mean, I think he sold me on the Cisco DevNet thing, and I wasn't even looking at I'm like, No.

Alex: 45:24

There you go.

Pat: 45:25

awesome. Yeah, man. Let's do it. All right, buddy. Thank you for joining this week. We're gonna get outta your hair a little shorter one this week, but that's all right. We're gonna get outta your hair, get you back to your day. We appreciate you joining us and taking the time to listen to us along and hope you found some value outta that. If you. Have another cert that you think is gonna be huge or that you're sort of hearing on the waiver wire out there in the big tech world we live in. If you have one, let us know. Drop us a line. Our website is open. It's got a contact box there. You can drop it, it goes right to our email. Twitter, Facebook we're all over. You can find us. So, make sure you visit our website. Again, it's got everything there. breakingbytespod.io. You can subscribe to the show right from there as well. There's a subscribe button to a bunch of platforms. All the big ones, all the small ones, everything. They're all there. iTunes, Spotify, Google Podcast, Stitcher or if you just need a plane, RSS feed, we are there as well. That's up there for you. Most of y'all listen from iTunes cuz that's what our stats tell us. So you're already there. Why don't you leave us a rating? That would be awesome. That messes with. The algorithms and in the apple iTunes world. So more eyes more ears on us. So that's always good as well. Tell a friend, right? That works just as well in the crazy tech world we live in. Follow us on all our socials, right? Twitter, Facebook. The Discord server that we have spun up. The invite is all that stuff is in the show notes. The survey's still out there, so we're looking, always looking for feedback. So Survey Link is in the show notes there as well. Again, thanks for tuning in and we'll see everybody next week.

Alex: 47:00

All right. See you.

Kyle: 47:01

So long.