Why You Shouldn't Get into Tech

In this episode, Kyle and Pat sit down and discuss the things you won't hear about the tech industry. We talk about all the "reality" of the T industry rather than the buzzwords and all the positives you hear. Join us!

Transcript

Pat: 0:31

Bye. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to this week's edition of breaking down the bites as usual. I'll be your host, Pat. You can find me on Twitter at layer eight packet. That's the number eight. You can find Kyle on Twitter at Danis 256. You can find the show on Twitter at breaking bites pod. We're pretty active on Twitter. So come say hello. And as always. Don't forget if you like the show subscribe, subscribe on your favorite streaming platform of choice. So we are back again this week. No, Alex, just Kyle and I, the dynamic duo, not the three Musketeers, but the dynamic duo. Alex is off in a way. I think his mom is visiting him this week out there in sunny SoCal. So he's spending some time with the fam. So shout out to Alex and the fam. So, we'll be back next week for a special episode before we ship out to Cisco, Cisco live. So that's going to be cool. So Kyle, what's up, man? How you doing?

Kyle: 1:33

Yeah, not too bad. How about yourself?

Pat: 1:35

Living that dream, my friend. As you can kind of tell, I don't know if it comes across, but I've had like a hoarse voice for almost two weeks now. Like, since we got back from the beach and the pollen and the allergies in this area is just redonkulously high. I've had like a dry cough and this raspy sort of voice for like, tomorrow it'll be two weeks. So I'm like any day now, this cough and just general stuffy allergy nonsense can go away. So I'm looking forward to that. So are you an allergy guy Kyle? Did you get allergies?

Kyle: 2:10

Sometimes.

Pat: 2:11

Yeah.

Kyle: 2:12

It's,

Pat: 2:12

usually not a big allergy guy.

Kyle: 2:14

yeah. Although, I have heard that that kind of hoarseness thing has been going around.

Pat: 2:18

Yeah, I don't know what the deal is. We came back from the beach and, like, I was fine at the beach, just had nice ocean air and all of a sudden you get back here in the valley and you're like, your face is like the size of a balloon and you're like, just allergies everywhere. So, ugh, it's brutal. So I apologize if I sound a little hoarse and I'm, doing the best to trudge on, but the show must go on, right? That's the way it's the way it goes. So, yeah, it's been real nice here weather wise. So getting out, but I can't believe tomorrow is Monday already. And we're it's just crazy years flying by the daughter is now four years old. She turned four last Sunday. So a week from. A week from today, she, on the 14th, she's four years older already. I'm like, you need to stop growing up so goddamned quickly. This is insanity. It's like, geez, the older you get means the older I get. And I'm not okay with that. So,

Kyle: 3:11

be taking the car key soon.

Pat: 3:13

And oh, don't, oh, don't even say that. That's just crazy. Or, maybe by the time she's driving, there'll be self driving cars, and we'll just have to get in and George Jetson it. It'd be like, take me to the grocery store. Doot, whatever. So that was all good. So, we wanted to take this time or this week to sort of talk about some of the downsides of it, if you will, because everybody thinks that, it is great field to get in. And, there's this endless endless work and blah, blah, blah. And believe me, there is, it's, it, we, Kyle and I still think. It's a great field to get into that's what we're saying, but we normally always focus on the positive here. And so this week we're going to do a little bit of a negative, but just kind of some realistic things that Kyle and I have seen in the industry of maybe that might turn some people off and, Hey, that's just. You're not cut out for this, right? That sort of thing. So, I want to talk about that this week and kind of get your thoughts on a Kyle and see where we land, but there are a few things that I kind of thought of for this episode to kind of, warn folks about if they're just, if they're not used to, if they're not in this industry now and what kind of, what they can kind of expect from the realistic side of things outside of the good pay and the multicolored beanbag chairs and the offices that you sit at. Yeah, that kind of thing. There, there are some downsides to it. So I don't know, Kyle, you have any opening thoughts on that topic?

Kyle: 4:40

I would say I've seen a few people, especially when I was still working at the help desk and we get interns come in and they'd get into the it field and it's like, all right, why are you here? Like, what's the driving force that's making you do it? And it was like money. And it's like, okay, well, do you have any interest or passion for technology? And it's like. No, I've never even opened a computer, like looked inside of it. And like, you kind of have to have that drive and the passion to even want to do it in the first place. I mean, like money's nice. That's, it's a good power ad kind of thing like that and freedom and whatnot, but. If you don't even like tech, it's probably not the first choice you should go to.

Pat: 5:26

Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree. I think that's a big one. I think that's a big misconception that you started in IT and you're all of a sudden at six figures right out the gate and that doesn't. That doesn't happen. So sorry to burst anyone's bubble out there, but that just doesn't work that way. And, the other common misconception I see is that, everybody thinks they start at the top, right? So that's not going to happen either. So you're going to have to cut your teeth on a help desk position somewhere. You're going to have to cut your teeth on, call center of some sort and whether that's like I said, a more traditional help desk or or just, a call center. I mean, I started a call center in a cable company, so supporting cable modems when the broadband boom was going on back in the early 2000s. So, you learn various skills at that particular, position as well. It's sort of how to talk to people, how to massage them to get, to do what you want them to do without making them feel stupid and, etc. So, at one point we were supporting cable modems. We were supporting the high definition, set top boxes. And like, we did it all. And, there was multiple days where I had to teach, grandma how to put batteries in a remote. So it humbles you like stupid quick, so you just, you don't start out at the top. And I think that's a misconception that a lot of people think that, Oh yeah, I'm going to, just cause you like something, you're striving towards it. Doesn't mean you're going to end up doing it. Right out of the gate when you first walk in the door. So, that, that's a big one as well. So, I would also say if you don't like change, I don't think it is for you, right? Because it moves at such a rapid, crazy pace, especially in today's world. It's way faster than like, even Kyle, when you and I were in college together, it just seems to move way faster. Just. Yeah. More than even 10 years ago. Like it's just insane. Cause it moved quick when we were there, but like, it is like lightspeed now it's just like, Holy Jesus. I can't, I can't keep up with all this stuff. So, so it's constantly changing. If you don't like change it's just not for you. Again, it just moves incredibly quick and you have to be prepared for that constant change. The only thing that's stagnant is the change.

Kyle: 7:41

Isn't that right?

Pat: 7:42

It's just, it's the weirdest thing, but you know, just as one technology, you're starting to get it in the door and implement it. Then you're ripping it out for another one because it just life cycles and things of that nature. It just doesn't, it just moves so freaking quick. I can't. Explain it how that goes. Any thoughts on that from your NAC days?

Kyle: 8:02

Yeah. I mean, it's, now there's always something that's the newest and the best and terms and, acronyms that are flying all over the place that you gotta stay on top and be able to, know what's going on. Because if not... Like you said, if you don't stay relevant and stuff, you just get left behind.

Pat: 8:19

Yeah. You're either moving forward or you're literally falling behind. There is no standing still. So I would say that for sure. I would also say that. You have to, and I could speak from this from experience, maybe Kyle, not you so much, but you have to change you often have to change companies or full blown industries, right? Staying in it, but moving the companies that you move to are in different industries or different verticals. You cut, you have to change in order to either a grow your skills and be your career or see your paycheck or any combination of those three, right? So, especially from what I've seen, people just don't get promoted as much as I thought. They might, they, they would have, right. For whatever reason, these companies just seem to want to bring in outside help or I should say outside management's which I can kind of see. But I don't think they're doing it for the right. Reasons. And I'll give you an example. When you bring it outside help, you bring in fresh eyes, right? You bring in fresh perspective of saying, okay, somebody, they did this at this company. It might work well here. And since I'm the boss. What I say goes right or, carries more weight than, you're, people underneath you or people that are reporting to you. So that being said, it's fresh eyes, you're not having the same people swim in the same soup, if you will, right? Because once you get used to a place, you become part of that Right. So like, for example, if you walk into a house and they're cooking chicken noodle, and you're like, Oh, that really smells pretty good. But you sit there for a half hour. You don't smell the chicken noodle anymore. Cause you're used to it. That kind of thing. So I feel like that bringing in fresh perspectives that has a fresh set of eyes on things. The other part of that is I don't think they do that. I don't think they realize, or I should say, that's not the reason they're bringing people in. Like they're, the business often doesn't understand what it does for them and vice. Versa, I guess. So I just think they're, they bring in fresh blood because they don't think the people that they have are going to be good in that new position. It's not because it's fresh eyes. They don't think like that. It's, there's no, that train of thought doesn't exist within that. Era, I should say, or within that thought bubble. I wish it did. Right. So, but yeah, that's not why they're bringing in new people, not because they need fresh eyes or they think they need fresh eyes most of the time. It's because they look at the roster and say, look, I don't really see. Anybody that could really fill this position. Right. So that's a big one. I do think more people internally need a chance. But until that sort of mindset changes from the business side, it's just, it's not going to happen. And I don't know what it takes to make that happen. And that's why people move around so much to say, look, I'm worth more than this. I'm going to try to go and, apply for new places. And that job is going to give me that next position, that manager or that senior title or whatever you're kind of striving towards. So that's why people move around so much. And, we've had our good friend, Harry was on a few weeks back and. It used to be a thing where, job hopping was looked at as like a negative. I go, let's go. This guy's only been here. This guy has only been here, a year. And then he's leaving. Or this one's here seven months and he's leaving. Well, if you don't ask those reasons, it's usually people don't leave jobs. They leave bosses. That's the number one thing. They just people. People generally tend to like their jobs and that's a general statement. They don't leave jobs or what they're doing day to day. They don't leave their coworkers, they leave management. That's the whole, that's the overwhelming reason percentage wise. If you look at the data, why people need. A new job, they can't deal with their managers or, like you said, you're a mid level network guy at one place and the next job is looking for a senior guy and that's more money. It's a different title and. That appeals to people. So just what it is. So don't expect to be promoted. I want to say right away. I mean, yeah, it does happen. Don't get me wrong. You may go to team lead or you may go to, some senior level making that bump from either team lead or senior to a management position, it doesn't always happen because they always bring in the outsiders. That's just the way the business. Works for whatever the reasons may be. So I'll throw that out there. Any thoughts on that Kyle?

Kyle: 13:35

No, I would definitely say that I've seen. Pretty much exactly what you're saying, where it's just like not for the right reasons, but just bringing in new blood and not promoting within kind of deal like that.

Pat: 13:49

Right. Yeah. And that goes back to the company culture and people want to sit there and hang their hats on our culture is great. Our culture is great. Well, your turnover doesn't look that great either. Why is that? That kind of thing. There's a direct correlation there, so that I find that interesting. So just a word to the wise there as well. The other thing I wanted to mention and this depends, Kyle and I living outside of Philadelphia, or I would say outside we're about an hour to an hour and a half North, depending on traffic. That being said, the better paying jobs and there's more jobs in a city, in a larger city. Right. So, for a good five years, I split two and a half years at two companies driving down to the suburbs of Philly and the pay was much better. Right. So where we live we're in a big like shipping warehouse. Area of the country, right? Cause we're right in between New York City and Philly. So everybody and their mother has warehouses here. So there's not a whole lot of it jobs here in where we live in the valley it's outside of King, it's outside of Philly, right. It's King of Prussia. It's that whole route. 4 22 corridor. Collegeville, Phoenixville all that corridor that, comes through and leads into Philly all the way down Route 76 and, Radnor and, all those outside of Philly come and even in Philly too. And Philly's a big one. Like people go literally to the center city of Philly. For jobs, right? For the tech stuff. So I would say that, if you're not a big fan of the big cities and all that entails with that, right? The commute to get there, the if you're living in a big city or more often, is the the cost of living is higher, right? Apartments are more and They're housing is more, et cetera. Foods were right. You look at the big, you look at the big tech places. Where are they? They're in massive cities, right? The San Frans of the world, the New York's, the Silicon Valley's right there. They're all in major cities. Austin, Texas, Dallas. That's a big tech hub in the last couple of years. That's been, that's boomed, right? So they're all in major cities. So, again, if you're not a city person or, You find that hard to juggle, that, that could be a big drawback into getting into the it world. That's just what it is. Any thoughts on that, Kyle?

Kyle: 16:09

Yeah, I mean, definitely some flexibility for travel, especially when you're first beginning to, that might just kind of come with the territory to get your foot in the door.

Pat: 16:20

Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. I had to. So yeah it's just one of those things where it just depends on where you're at. And today in the remote quasi world that we live in, that may not be as big of an issue, but in the last couple of years that they're pulling people back into an office and hey, you had a full, fully remote job for two years and now you got to go to, now you got to go to a major city and, traffic and travel All that kind of stuff that plays a massive part in in people's decisions to get. The next one I'm about to say, it should have been number one for me, but I gave it a couple bullet points down because I couldn't get this hyped up this early in the episode. I just couldn't like, I would just set the whole tone for the entire episode. I'm going to say this right now. And believe me, when I say this, it is a. Absolutely a thankless job. No one gives a flying F about it until it doesn't work. I'm telling you right now and the higher you go in your position, the more eyes are on you to basically not have shit break.

Kyle: 17:40

Mm

Pat: 17:40

But you know, for a fact, it is going to break because it's tech, it's technology. It happens. These things are literally electronics. It happens, right? So we don't have a magic wand. We don't have an easy button. I'll allow the staples commercials from a few years ago. Like this shit happens all the time. And it is a thankless job, and I'm sure other jobs are thankless. It seems like that's the world we live in nowadays, right? Just, but it's literally, what have you done for me lately? And you're only as good as your last fuck up. That's it. That's literally it. It drives me crazy. And it's like, listen, you didn't give a shit about the 10 projects that went absolutely smooth that made efficiencies go through the roof and saved you money in the longterm. You didn't give a shit about those, but the one time on a Sunday where you couldn't get to whatever or like a, an ISP took a dump. That's something that's outside, completely outside of your control. Now you're going to give me shit about it. Like slow your horses. Like that's just, Oh, it drives me crazy. Drives me bananas. Talk about that, Kyle, because I know you have a story.

Kyle: 18:55

Yeah. I mean, even just getting the stuff that you need to be able to do your job properly is always, like, Hey, I'd like to get this switch and. We should get redundant power supplies for it. So if one fails, you have the other one. Well, do you really need to? Why, like, just get one. It's, you save eight, eight, nine hundred bucks or something. You're like no, but then if it fails. The whole thing falls, and you're like, well it's brand new, it shouldn't fail, and you're like, but it's, it can, like,

Pat: 19:27

Oh,

Kyle: 19:28

and you just,

Pat: 19:29

makes my head hurt. It makes my head hurt. And this is why I did this in the 20 minute mark

Kyle: 19:34

right, right,

Pat: 19:36

because if we would have started out of this, if we would have started out with this topic, we would have been guns blazing and we would have been bitching the whole episode. God damn it.

Kyle: 19:44

but it's definitely, and those, yeah, when something goes wrong, that mark always just stays there, like. Hey, remember that time? Remember that time you fucked up, like, five years ago, and you're like,

Pat: 19:56

years ago

Kyle: 19:56

Wasn't even my fault! And you're like,

Pat: 19:59

4 47 in the afternoon, I couldn't get my, I couldn't get Excel to open. And the other thing too is like, I don't deal with this a whole lot now, but I used to, but like, if you have a change that's planned and it actually affects the end user and you send emails months in advance. Multiple emails for like a month at a time. I guarantee you it's all white noise. It goes right in the fricking trashcan of these email boxes. And the second you change it, they got the nerve to go, why'd you change it? I wasn't notified. Oh my God. I have like, I was, I'm ready to strangle people at that point. I'm like, I have seven emails that I sent you over the last month and a half saying that this was your D day. Now all of a sudden we're at D day and I pushed the button and now you're going to be like. You didn't notify me. Why is this changing? I'm not right. I'm not here to write a thesis like come on This isn't that difficult.

Kyle: 21:02

Guilty till proven innocent, right? Then the case of like, Well, Sandra, if you look back at 337 on, Friday afternoon, I sent you this. Email. Yeah. Right.

Pat: 21:15

And I have a read receipt from you so I know you read it Don't lie to me sandra.

Kyle: 21:20

Right.

Pat: 21:21

Oh, it just drives me crazy No, to go back to your point with, with the switch and the pattern, the dual power supply, it's like you have to explain these things to biz to the business in money terms, right? So if that switch or if that power supply for that switch is an extra 900, right? If something goes, if that switch goes down, are you losing more than 900 of business? Due to that switch being out, if the answer is yes, get the second power supply. That's the answer. Like

Kyle: 21:55

JUSTIN

Pat: 21:56

just, Oh, and the other thing too, is like, and that sort of bleeds into the, to, what we're, another topic here, but like, you have to learn to do more with less.

Kyle: 22:09

Always.

Pat: 22:10

Always you're doing more with less. Like you're we're constantly bitched at about budget. It is all about budget. How much, how little can we spend and yet how fast can we go? Like that is literally the whole. Like crux of the last few jobs that I've had, when I ask, what do you want? And I put things on paper that I have to sit there and justify why the things I want cost so much. And it's like, okay, you do this or you do this, or you want to get into that space. You can't get into that space until you have this or this redundancy or this architecture or whatever the case may be. And then they always cut something always. It's. It's ripped the shreds and then they go do it again. And so I do it again and I swear to God, this happens more times than often, more times than not. We get a year, maybe eight months to a year down the road and we needed that something that was axed from the budget. And they go, why can't we do this? Cause you axed it from my budget literally eight months ago when I had a decent business case on the freaking table. Well, what can we do now to get around it? Stop timeout, just stop. Like the amount of times that I have made the Ferrari go on a clown car budget is just astonishing to me. Like you just have to learn to do more with less. Cause it's, at the end of the day, you come down, it is a number, right? They're just some places are better than others. I've worked at some really good places. I've worked in some really bad places. It like, It is just a necessary evil, right? It they have to pay for it because they have to. If they didn't, if they didn't have to, they wouldn't, but they need it as an everyday, it's built in business now, so they throw just enough money at it to keep it going. Not necessarily keep it running. Right. It just keeps it going, and then you're expected to make the Ferrari car. Out of Hugo parts, that kind of thing. It's just, it drives me crazy. So yes, learn to do more. With less because everywhere is like that and that's the beauty of a good manager if you can put out Your ideologies and say look I think we should do this and this for this year Then the manager says okay Then he takes it above to his people Who are often the money people, right? To sign the checks and say, we need this because this ties into this business objective, and this business objective. But I haven't met a lot of those people. Those managers just basically say, Hey, here it is. And it's going to cost us a million. And they go, why? And the manager goes, Oh, it's just what stuff costs. And then they go, no, if you're not going to give me a reason for it, I'm going to ask it. And there we go. You get taxed and we stumble along for the next, the next year until the budget cycle comes down. The only thing I would say is whatever budget you do get, spend every penny of it or close to.

Kyle: 25:32

JUSTIN

Pat: 25:32

penny of it because I guarantee you when it comes around again for budget time next year They're gonna look at it and go we gave you x amount of money. You didn't spend all of it So we're not giving you that we're not giving you as much this year Because you did with less last year And here you thought you were a good samaritan saving the company money not spending all your budget there you are. You shot yourself in the fucking foot Oh, it happens all the time.

Kyle: 25:57

And you got the triangle, right, the good, fast, and cheap? ALICE

Pat: 26:06

you can only have two of the three Yeah, it could be good and fast, but it won't be cheap. It could be good and cheap and it won't be fast. Oh, yeah it's, yeah, then that's that stuff stresses. It used to stress me. It doesn't anymore. I don't care. I mean, I'm at a point where I mean, I care, but like, It used to really stress me out. I'd be like, why doesn't the business go for this? And like, that was more of my own head to being like, I know in my own head, what I'm trying to say. I have a terrible time flipping that into a business case and under, and having the business understand why it's good for the business. In my head, it's all technical and I'm like yeah, but I live in this world. That's the world I live in. They don't live in my world. So I have a hard time taking a out of my head and getting it to be in the biz and the way the business is going to be like, yeah, that makes sense. Let's do that. That's a good investment. Yeah, that kind of thing. So, I would say that's a big one. Just learn to do more with less. And I've seen it multiple times that they're so short sighted and then it eventually comes around and they go, why can't we do this? Well, you didn't give me money for it. When I asked for it in the budget, you had to ask something and that's what it was. And they go, okay. Or they say, oh, let's try to do it. Okay, pony up the money and we'll do it. But like there's just so much short sightedness when it comes to that It just it drives you crazy. So be prepared for that fight because it happens constantly. Here's the other thing that I don't Necessarily appreciate it. Maybe it's because I'm in the network side and we're literally the plumbers of the it world. There's two things, one thing. And again you'll find this very quick and it burns a lot of people out. Everyone's lack of planning. Is an emergency on your part happens all the time. People, I don't know what it is. They just, whether they're getting kicked at from a client, like a, a third party vendor or a client and they get it last minute. And then they turn around and give it to us last minute, or oh, I forgot to do something. And now I have a deadline and now they kick it over to you. But I cannot tell you how many times on a Friday afternoon somebody comes to me and says, oh, I need this done either by today or Monday. And it's a fire. Why is it a fire? Why do I only have less than 24 hours to turn something around? Because. You didn't do your due diligence or you didn't plan on your port again. And yeah, your lack of planning is not an emergency on my part. I have protocols and stuff I got to follow too. Like why am I expected to throw my protocols and whatnot out the window? Just to. Just to cover up your mess. It happens all the time and it drives me crazy. So, speak. Ah, just, ah, it drives me, ah, drives me nuts.

Kyle: 29:26

was gonna say, back to some of the, I guess, customer service or helpdesk or anything like that,

Pat: 29:32

Yeah.

Kyle: 29:33

expect to be lied to. Constantly. Oh,

Pat: 29:37

the time.

Kyle: 29:38

hey, can you restart your computer? Oh, I already did that, like, you're full of shit, you did not, you absolutely,

Pat: 29:44

uptime says seven days and twelve hours. You're like, what? Oh, you restarted, huh? What, last week? Ah.

Kyle: 29:50

And, like, none of the end users, half the time their own problems are self inflicted. They don't want to incriminate themselves, so they'll just, nah, I don't know what happened, just like, I didn't spill my java smoothie thing on the keyboard, and like,

Pat: 30:04

Yep.

Kyle: 30:05

So that's, you're gonna have to play detective, turn on your BS meter, and, just, yeah. It's, it gets infuriating, and then you get to the bottom, and you're like... Once you catch them, they normally fess up to it. Except, some people do double down, but normally they fess up, and you're like, why wouldn't you just tell me that from the get go? We could've saved each other, like, two hours. JUSTIN

Pat: 30:29

yeah, this call could have been ten minutes, not an hour and ten minutes. Like, Jesus. Ah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We used to call that a pebcac problem exists between keyboard and share. That's always a good one. It's more acronyms for you folks out there. But yeah, no, that's a good one. What I used to do when I worked at the cable company is like, like we had so many issues in the field and not enough texts to go out and like, actually like fix this stuff. So like people would be waiting like four or five days to get a tech out. And get internet going around like it was bad and so like our supervisors voicemails were just full of just angry people just flipping the fuck out like you mean to tell me I can't and like it was so funny because like they had this thing where like oh you know. Like they'd throw it out to try to get somebody earlier. They'd be like, Oh, I run a business from this, from my home. And like, and my first question was, Oh, do you have a business account? And they would go no, that kind of thing. Like, exactly. If you don't have a business account, then. Business accounts are same day service, right? We'd have somebody out there same day, but you're also paying that premium. You know what I mean? The premium money for the thing that like people used to get around, try to get around that all the time. Like, Oh, like, I'm running a business. Why did I do, can you get somebody out here faster? Blah, blah, blah. And like, so if I knew there was a problem. And I could sense it like I could see the problem in the first couple of minutes as I'm like, talking to them on the phone. Cause like I spent seven years there. So I was pretty quick. Right. Like I, there wasn't a whole lot of issues like that. It could be, there was only a finite amount of problems that you could have with your cable loader. Right. It's not, you're not solving world peace or curing cancer, but but I can have them unscrew the coax from the back of the modem. Just unscrew that for a second. I'm going to run a few tests on this end and I'll just put you on hold and I'll be right back. I would just put them on hold, wait for a few minutes, go get, grab a cup of coffee or water or something. Because like once it's disconnected from the coax, I had no. You know what I mean? Like it was already down. So I wasn't doing any voodoo magic behind the scenes or whatever. So like, I come back like, okay, I'm done. I'm all done. You can screw it back in, maybe seven out of eight times out of 10. That was, that would fix it. Right. That would be just enough to get it back online. either now. It was good, like your actual signals from the cable modem side were good. It just needed, it needed whether that pin was bent on the inside of the coax or sometimes the shield of the actual coax gets all goofy and whatnot. Just that unscrewing unscrew like worked wonders or it was just enough to get that modem back online where I could actually see like the actual signals and they were all outta whack. And then that would give me enough time to schedule a tech. For those like three or four days, at least I had them online, but the tech would be there in three or four days, actually look at the actual issue and see if you can adjust the signal. But like you learn those quips, you learn that stuff and it helped us level of like, you learn what to do with people that are just. Not happy because nobody calls it with everything working fine, right? Nobody calls him like nobody, nobody calls me up and says, yeah, your shit's working real good.

Kyle: 33:44

LAUGH JUSTIN

Pat: 33:45

Nobody does that. They call you because something is amiss. Something is wrong. So they're already hot and heavy by the time they get on the phone with you. So like, man I've, learning to talk to people in that aspect in that. Setting was just so key for me to kind of catapult me into the you know into the next rung or ladder or whatnot, but yeah expect to be lied to because it does happen quite a bit It's just that's just the way of the world again people try to cover it up or whatever They don't want to they don't want to seem stupid whatever blah blah blah just be like You're not the first person to lie to me, like, just tell me the truth and we'll get on with our day. It's not that difficult of a concept. So crazy. Did you have any others?

Kyle: 34:30

All right. So I'm sure anybody that's ever done any it work, especially you can probably

Pat: 34:39

Oh god.

Kyle: 34:40

everyone expects you to fix. Every fucking electronic product in their house, for free, when they want it, on their time, like, they're calling you, asking you questions, like, if you were a doctor, they wouldn't be like, well, can you just come over, do surgery, like, no, that's not okay, you're an IT guy, like. You're an A. V. guy, you're an I. T. guy, you're a networking guy, you're a Wi Fi guy, like, how do I set up my cable top box? You're like, what? That's not even what I do.

Pat: 35:10

Anything that plugs into an electrical outlet, you're on the hook for. It's so bad. Especially that friends and family

Kyle: 35:19

ah,

Pat: 35:20

Oh, the family gets a hold of you? Forget it. Forget it. I haven't had that a lot in the last couple of years, but like when I first started out, Everybody hit me up. Hey, can you do this? Or hey, I got a this or like the worst was like, hey I got a new Mac. Can you come and help me set it up? I'm like, I don't deal with that voodoo magic the fuck out of here. I Gotta hit like nothing against Max, but there's just not for me. That's like, yeah, you'll find that most IT people I just said well, maybe not In today's world, but like when you and I were in college and stuff, we wouldn't touch Macs to save our souls. Like that's just like if they said I'll give you a million dollars to fix this Mac issue be like nah, not for me, bro Like it's just we just didn't touch him now It seems like every cool cat on the corner has a Mac but like, you know They just weren't that they weren't that in they weren't that popular when you or I were kind of coming up They were basically if you were not A graphics designer or some sort of web design or, you know what I mean? Like a Photoshop, high art, that kind of art student, you didn't have a Mac. That's the only thing they were good for was editing, like audio, like video and, the artsy stuff like outside of that. Like they just weren't a thing. So yeah, no, I agree with that. It's just yeah Like once people know you're an IT guy, you literally fix everything like oh, my toast is burning too dark Can you come and help me fix it? Yeah, let's Stick a fork in there. See what happens

Kyle: 36:51

right.

Pat: 36:53

Yeah, this is just it's crazy. I get it. Nope. And like, I belong to a Facebook group or two of like, tech IT centered groups and stuff. Like, there's some places out there that literally have IT. Like responsible for everything that plugs into a wall and you're like what? That's like that's insane. That's I'm like, yeah, that's just not that's not me. Like I Like oh, yeah, my you know the dehumidifier that's under Rose's desk. It's really getting hot Can you go look at that? You're like no Like tell her don't plug it sorry, But Yeah, it's just crazy. This is crazy. What else? So sort of, and this is the last one for me. I don't know, Kyle, if you have any, if you have any more, but the, I mean, all of the things that we just mentioned, to be honest with you, I have to double check this, don't quote me on this, but the amount of high turnover that it has, because it just stresses so many people out. The various reasons that we just mentioned, I think it's higher than actual retail and retail is retail choose through people. Like it's nobody's business. It's just so crazy. But it has a very high turnover for those particular reasons. And it's just, the. The whole moving, moving fast change and, changing companies and expected to do more with less, right? That's a big one. I just, so many people just get burned out on that. It's like, do this, and this, but I won't give you the resources for it. Well, then it ain't that important to you, bro. We're just not the, the thankless job, right. Everybody always cares, when your last fuck up was, nobody ever says nice job on those 10 previous projects that went smooth as silk, right. That kind of thing. It's, it just leads to high turnover. It's burnout city. People just, it chews through people, especially now that it's so integrated in today's world. And. The business Like it's such an integral part of the business. Just, it just burns people out. Right. You just, you start to get chippy with people and, you're just not a, you become not a people person, that sort of thing. So, it's a very high turnover in that, in that aspect of it. So, just to, just a couple of things that just kind of thought off the top of my head, like, you just. You definitely need patience in this industry. Like it's definitely a virtue. Like it's just, you just, yeah, that's kind of going back to what you said, Kyle, with the whole help desk thing. And, oh yeah, I rebooted. Huh. Sure. That kind of thing. The patience is a big one, right? You just. You get the same people making the same mistakes over and over. And it's just like, how many times do I have to write this down? That kind of thing. Continuing education. You want to continue your education, right? This is a constant field of education and you're going to be studying until you're fucking retiring. Like our good buddy, Mike Kelly, just, he literally just got his master's degree from Kutztown, literally. Like a week ago, and he's in his mid fifties, right? And they're like, he's like, he's got like nine years to retire. I'm like, yeah, I did, so, he's doing it and he's, doing the the, the certs and the master's degree and stuff like that. So education is another big one. If you don't want to work outside nine to five IT's not cut out for you. Because nobody does any maintenance in the middle of the day, right? It's just, it's all about mitigating risk and downtime, right? That's the thing too, right? Or if you're easily frustrated or you give up quickly, right? It's just, it's the... It's not necessarily the tech skills that you're going to have a problem with. It's the other stuff. It's the EQ versus the IQ, right? That kind of thing. So, and you're going to have to be able to multitask as well. Right. So, working on multiple projects at once or multiple tickets at once. Right. So you're always trying to, people are always trying to get something from you, whether that's your time, whether that's your knowledge, whatever, like people turn to you for a reason. And if you're going to, More times than one or more chances than not, you're gonna have more than one person coming to you at a time. So you have to learn to balance that, that high pressure. You can't please everybody, but you're gonna have to set some sort of boundary and multitask. As many things as you can, right? It's just what it is. That kind of thing. So, just kind of again, pros and cons. To be honest with you, I think there's more pros and there is cons and we definitely want to touch on the cons, there are more pros. I still think this is a great industry to get into, but, a lot of this stuff isn't talked about when people are changing jobs or, coming up out of college and whatnot. Don't understand the real world aspect of this, right? Because all you hear about tech is, you're. Your certifications here, cloud this, security this, and this is a great field to get into, and study this, and blah, blah, blah. And then you get in, you get into an actual organization, and you have all this other shit to balance. You're like, I didn't sign up for this is crazy. Like, no one prepares you for the other things. So, definitely, we definitely wanted to talk about that on this particular episode and kind of get a, a real world, Look at some of the other things that aren't talked about you talk about all the good but Now let's talk about some of the real right? So, all right any more thoughts on that kyle you have any more, any more points on there?

Kyle: 42:33

I would say the 1 other thing that happens that I don't think anybody ever really talked about or in all the classes that I took or anything until till I was, working is like your personal time

Pat: 42:46

Well big one.

Kyle: 42:48

Somebody's calling you. Somebody's got a question. You're on vacation and you're like, what? You're like, what is happening right now? And, oh, I had a question. I did, and maybe with bigger teams or when things are spread out a little more, that doesn't happen as much. But I've, I found that to be a thing that happens. You're getting called your after hours or weekends, day that you're on vacation because somebody needs. A bit of information, or help, or something.

Pat: 43:19

Yeah. I find that a lot. And I was in that for quite a few years and it burned me out. It really did. Like I used to take, I used to take my work phone on vacation even though I had the out of office on, like people still reached out to me and be like, Hey, you know what? And that's the other thing too, like if you're on a team and you're the only person that knows how to do something or is the best person at something, you get called regardless of what you're doing. Regardless of if you're out of office, you're at the beach, you're at the, you're on a plane, it doesn't matter. You're literally going to get, somebody's going to IM you, someone's going to call you, someone's going to text you. That's just, it's a problem. I'm not going to say it's not a problem. That, that's definitely a stigma that this industry has. Like, it just does a lot of businesses and therefore your teams. And again, that all comes back to culture, right? How, how good of a culture do you really have? Like. They're going to reach out to you and they just don't respect your personal time. That's just a lot of it. It just comes down to, them and all of the business just doesn't respect your personal time. And then they wonder why people leave and they have such high turnover. Like it's not that difficult of a concept. Like, you're running these people into the ground. Like and we all know that once you bend over backwards for one person, That person then is going to skip the line and come directly to you with every problem they've ever had. Like, it drives me crazy. I get it. I get why they do it, but it drives me crazy. And then that's where your company culture comes in or your process as an IT department comes in and says, No, you have to go through the proper process. You can't just go right to the top of the ladder again because that person's already busy with other things. So, If you have five, if that person has five things that they're working on and you come to them with a sixth, that means one of those previous five has to get dropped. They can only ever have five things, go on it at one time. So you're telling me that person's problem is more of a problem or more of an issue than the five things you're already, than you're working on? Then you tell me which one of these five that I'm going to drop that help this person.

Kyle: 45:40

Right.

Pat: 45:41

Right. That sort of thing. So it happens all the time and just people, So the people that I've worked with, they just generally want to help people, right? but then that gets taken advantage of because you're just you're helping people all the time and then it never ends then it's Then you become their personal IT person no matter what it is Like say if you're a network guy people come to me all the time about oh, I can't get to this database Fuck do I know about a database like can you ping the database? Yeah, I can. My job is done. Like, put a ticket in. Like, that's, I'm not playing this game. Like, it happens all the time. Or, hey I can't get to this. Well, can you ping it? Yeah. Can you RDP to it? Yeah. Alright, then my job is done. Well, I can't get this job to work to run in sequel. Not a network problem. Like just like what are you doing? Yeah, like people will chew you up and spit you out you have to draw a line in the sand and say look No, you have to put a ticket in. I don't mean to be the bad guy, but You coming to me every time and then me just helping you off the cuff That doesn't help me when I'm on vacation. You have to go to someone else like If you did it the right way the first time and put in your tickets and put in your paper trail, that gives you a fighting chance to have somebody actually go on vacation. Plain and simple. And I'm not getting called at two in the afternoon when I'm on the boardwalk and Hey, I need, how do you do this in the Palo Alto? Or how do you do this in DNA Center? No, just stop. Like, see what I mean? Like, I just, I feel like, yeah people will chew you up and spit you out as long as you let them. So just take that for what it's worth and a word of advice. So,

Kyle: 47:30

Right.

Pat: 47:31

anything else?

Kyle: 47:31

Nah, I think that's about what I got.

Pat: 47:34

That was it. I feel like that was a, I feel like this podcast was a combination of warnings and like a bitch session. So, we hope you got some value out of that. Yeah, we just wanted to give... just a little insight of what happens day to day. Just some of the red flags that we've seen over our careers of, real versus, what's put out there in the interwebs, what your friends tell you, that kind of thing. So yeah, just just take it for what it's worth. And if you have any questions or or if you have anything that, Really that you've seen if you're an I. T. professional already, you have to add to this list. Certainly let us know. We'd love to hear what kind of, stuff that you've. Been through over your career as well. So always a always a good time and seeing what other people experience outside of our bubble. So Kyle, anything else? Other than that we'll wrap it up and get out of

Kyle: 48:29

think that that's about it.

Pat: 48:31

That's about it. So next week we're going to do a cool episode, longest things line up. We're going to do a cool episode on first timers at Cisco live. Alex has gone before, obviously. This is my first time at Cisco Live. It's coming up in two weeks here. So we're going to try to sneak in an episode next week of he's going to give a rundown of, some cool things at Cisco Live, some of his experiences what you should be doing versus what you can skip, that sort of thing. So looking forward to that because I need all the help I can get, both at Cisco Live and, Professional life. So it's all good there. But yeah, so stay tuned for that and then we'll see we'll see everybody. The next couple of weeks with some really cool episodes coming up. So, we want to thank everybody for joining this week the new episode of breaking down the bites as usual. Appreciate you hanging with us for about an hour, maybe a little less than this one, but make sure you visit our website, breakingbytespod. io where you can subscribe to the show on your platform of choice. So Apple podcast, Spotify, Google podcast, Stitcher, pretty much anywhere that has a podcast we're there. So, or if you just need a RSS feed that that's up there too. So, so you never miss a show. If you throw us a rating on Apple podcasts, that'd be great. That's where most of the listeners come from. So our stats tell us, so, either a rating or a comments on that. So, or review, that would be awesome. That fools with the algorithms and gets us into more people's ear holes. That's always good to follow up there as well. Or simply tell a friend that works just as well too. So we've gotten some good feedback on that. Speaking of feedback, the surveys still out there. We're kind of just going to let that open end. Kind of run for as long as we can and surveys out there. The link is in our show notes. If you want to give us some feedback, if you love us, if you hate us. We're somewhere in between. That's cool too. Just tell us there's a couple of questions. We don't know who you are. It's completely anonymous. It just aggregates answers for us and puts us into pretty pie charts and graphs and calculates answers. So all good there as well. Socials, right? So LinkedIn, Twitter Facebook. The discord server out there again, the the the the survey all that stuff is in the show notes of the episode. So go and take a peek at that. Kyle, it's been great and awesome. We're going to tackle another Monday coming up here and we'll see everybody next week, everybody take it easy.