Full Career Change

This week, Pat and Kyle sit down and chat about full tilt career changes. What does a full career change into IT look like? We talk about taking a pay cut in the short term, to benefit the long term, and settings some salary expectations as you balance you're new career

Transcript

Pat: 0:30

Hey everybody. Welcome back to this week's edition of Breaking Down the Bites. As usual, I'm your host, pat. You can find me on Twitter at layer8packet. That's the number eight. You can find Kyle on Twitter as well, danath256. You can find the show on Twitter at breakinbytespod all that stuff and our socials is in the show notes. So, go check those out and follow us on your platform of choice. We are pretty much everywhere, so come say hello. We are especially active on Twitter, so definitely find us and come say hello. Don't forget if you like the show, subscribe on your platform of choice. We're, we are just about everywhere that you can think of. So, go find us and hit that like. Share and subscribe button that really helps getting the word out there. So, freshly back, Kyle is with us tonight, or I should say it's Kyle and I tonight. Alex is still hungover from Cisco Live. No, I'm just kidding. He is. Oh, he is out and about. So, it's all good. We'll be back next week. Kyle and I, and Alex will all be here. At least I hope so that we are gonna do a Cisco live recap episode. So tune in, if you missed our. Episode from two weeks ago about first time at Cisco Live. Go check that out. And then next week's will be the recap of what we did, who we met, all that kind of fun stuff. So really excited and looking forward to that one cuz it was a great time. Let me tell you that, that's Cisco Live, they really know how to put on an event. So, real cool stuff going on there. So Alex, we'll have you back next week and we'll, we will rock and roll, but Kyle is back. We are here with you in the flesh. So Kyle, what's up man? How you doing?

Kyle: 2:19

Yeah, another day in Paradise. It's,

Pat: 2:22

it.

Kyle: 2:22

Getting ready for the Monday woes, I suppose, and here we are.

Pat: 2:27

Here we are. That's right. It'll be my first time actually working in a week. So see what kind of, see what kind of mess is waiting for me and how big my inbox is. So it'd be interesting to see what is that of actually people that need something or spam. So we'll see how how that balances out. I'm hoping it's all spams. I can just delete it all and I don't have to do much, so I don't know. We'll see. But yeah, it's riding outta a corner. The wife is done with school for the year. So she sent her second graders home on I think Friday, Thursday or Friday. And so she is all for summer. And then a new batch of second graders awaits her in August. So, yeah, the wife and kids will be home with me while I work for the foreseeable feature. And but that's great. I always love spending time with them, and you never quite get enough while they're work, you know, they're doing their thing and I'm, you know, slaving away working. So it's all good there. What else did I wanna say? Oh, just as a reminder, I should say, as a hot tip I'm more on this in a little bit, possibly next week. But I am starting to study for the CCNP security, theISEe specialty. For those of you that don't know how the structure is, CCNP has a core exam. And then basically you have to take one more test as a specialty, and then you are CCNP certified. So, I am starting that hill or, you know, mountain depending, whatever verbiage you wanna use. And I'm also blogging about it to kind of keep track of my studies and keep me pushing. So, give it a couple days, but layer8packet.io will be live. Anybody wants to come in and check out blogs on how my studyings done. And go from there or ha you have any words of encouragement certainly share them with me. So I'll also have my blog linked on our website, breakingbytespod.io as well. So you can get there get'em from multiple angles. So, yeah come, hang. If you've taken it before, got any tips, pointers, whatever certainly let me know. But if you wanna follow my journey for the CCNP security so. The core exam is for me first, and then the ice exam will be later. So focusing on core exam for now. So we'll see how that goes. But I decided to spin it up and. Do a blog about it keeps me honest, it keeps me going in the right direction and it forces me to have a little discipline. So looking forward to that as well. So, layer8packet.io. Give that a couple days. It should be ready to rock and roll and follow along with me. So now we got that out the way. This week's episode, we are talking salary expectations. What does that mean? What does it look like? What to expect in your first couple of years? Are you transitioning into tech from a different career or a different industry? Like, what does that look like? Are you going backwards from a money perspective? All that kind of stuff. So we're gonna, we're gonna chat about that this week and give you a good little insight on as to what some folks are doing and how that kind of works. So, any thoughts on that, Kyle, before we kick it off here, my friend?

Kyle: 5:38

Yeah. You know, something everybody's gotta look at and weigh out the pros and cons and stuff for your salary. What kind of works, you know, if you're like you said, if you're changing jobs or, you know, maybe you're just moving up in the one that you already have, you know?

Pat: 5:52

Yep, for sure. Yeah. So I guess we'll start with the obvious, right? What is a pay cut? Right? It, in the simplest terms, it means you're accepting a lower salary than what you have now or just say salary or hourly rate and what you know, what you have now at your current job. So, but obviously there's multiple things with that, right? It can be, you know, it's a financial risk to a job change or you know, but often. When you come at it from a tech perspective, say you're in the, I don't know, medical field or whatever, construction, whatever and you're moving into tech depending on how many years you spent at your previous industry or career, you could be making more than what the starting salary is in tech. But tech is a. Better industry in the long run you'll make that up quicker in the long run in a few short years than you would at your pace at your current industry. Right? So I would say salary really starts to boom. And again, everybody's different. Everybody works at different paces or is a different head space. But I would say once you get outside that help desk range and you start. Moving and shaking jobs. I think you could really make up a lot of money and a lot of ground with that within the first few years. But it, it is kind of like ripping off that bandaid of like, oh, I gotta, you know, I gotta take a pay cut to, you know, for the first year or two, whatever it is, to then really kind of move around, move and shake around. So there is a risk with that. Depends on your Your lifestyle and, you know, are you a saver? Are you a spender? You know, et cetera, et cetera. So there's multiple you know, caveats to that. So, you know, Again it's, I guess there's multiple, some common reasons for pay cuts, right? So either you're, you know, again you're changing careers transition. That's a very popular one. Obviously you're returning to the workforce after an extended leave, right? So, Like maternity leave. You went out with kids and you stayed out, you know, now you're kind of moving back into the workforce kind of thing. Or god forbid, you had some sort of like, long, like disability or something. Now you're kind of moving into that you know, you're transitioning to a smaller company, that's a reason for a pay cut. Right. Some of the, and you're not going to, you know, go to work for Facebook and then come, you know, Stay out and come back and transition and go to a, like a law firm, right? Or a smaller law firm, or you know, whatever. So, Again, transitioning from, or I should say transitioning to a smaller company, that usually is a reason for a pay cut. Or I know a few people that have done this. It's a demotion or taking a step back in a role, right? So I hear a lot of this. I don't know, Kyle, I'll get your thoughts on it too, but I hear a lot of people, they want to, you know, they've made their way through it from the tech side, and then they jump into, Like manager roles cuz they think that's the next logical step. And then they find out that the manager role really sucks and they don't, they're not cut out for it or it's just not their cup of tea, whatever, and they just wanna stay technical. Then if you're moving from a manager role back into the tech role, sometimes that could be a pay cut as well, cuz you're technically quote unquote doing less title changes, that the title technically is a step. Back. So I dunno if you have any thoughts on that.

Kyle: 9:24

Yeah, I've definitely talked to people who've done that. Like you said, it, it kind of seems like the natural progression of like, work your way up and they get into it and they're like, they've done tech or hands-on. They've been in the muck for so long that once they're out of it, they're like, nah, I don't like this. I'm wanna go back to where I was. You know? It's like, that's my happy place, that's my comfortable place. So.

Pat: 9:45

sure.

Kyle: 9:46

Definitely I've seen that too and you know, gotta reevaluate. But I mean, money, mental health, you know, gotta balance those things out a little bit.

Pat: 9:58

Yeah, that's a big one. I think the work life balance really becomes a big part of that too. So if you're in a spot where you're basically, you know, the top of the ladder from a tech perspective, whether that's a lead or whatever. A lot of that can take a toll on the work life balance, right? So everybody, if you're a lead, everybody comes to you or a manager, like. Kyle said, everybody comes to you and you basically just are on the hamster wheel 24 7. Right? And then if you want to take a, you know, if you wanna put your mental health, your work life balance, once that becomes a priority, that often means taking a step back and, you know, again, taking a step back can come with. You know, the pay cuts and title changes and, you know, things of that nature. So, so I think that's a big one, and especially in the last few years with the whole, the covid thing and you know, the remote work versus, you know, you know, in-house in office work. It's just a whole new set of challenges, I think. And, but it really depends on your particular, you know, situation and, you know, things of that nature. So, that's one as well. So, and then there's, you know, some of the other, you know, common ones, right? You start your own business, right? That makes sense, right? You're basically now you're just relying on yourself for for a paycheck. And, you know, you're typically, you're not you're not making what you're currently making out of the gate when you do your own business, right? That sort of thing. So just a couple of those popular ones. Reasons for the for the pay cut. But I do find it interesting and it's, there's always this question of, you know, Should I take a pay cut? Should I not? What does that look like? And again I've said this on the show a million times, you know, you don't grow unless you're outside your comfort zone, right? So, you know, hint, wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Kyle with your cc n a, just do it brother. Oh. But anyway. There's always this weird juggling act of should I take a pay cut, should I not? How do we do that sort of thing? And again, this isn't a finance podcast or anything like that, but yeah. You know, looking at budgets and, you know, staying within your means and the economy that all plays a large part of, you know, whether you should or shouldn't you know, it's. It also comes around family too, right? So you gotta sit down and consider like, you know, again, life commitments, expenses, you know, are you married? Do you have kids? Do you know, you know that. Paycheck that you bring home, right? Does that, does it cover, what does that cover far as like house bills, right? Is it 50%, is it 25? Is it all of it? Like, you know, you gotta consider that as well. Again, kids you know, things in nature. What does that, what is your current salary doing? Is it just enough to cover what you have now or do you have some room there? You know, things of that nature. So, If you got some wiggle room, you know, that's probably easier, right? It's a, you're in an easier position to, to make that cut. But you know, in today's times it's kind of harder to find more pennies in between the couch cushions, right? So that's just from a previous experience. And, you know, again, are you just skating by or do you have some room to, you know, go out and get a steak dinner every now and then? That'll definitely depend. On what that decision looks like. And either way you go, I think it's gonna be ripping the bandaid off, right? You're just like, ah, like, you just gotta do it. But it's gonna hurt for a while. But I think once you know, and it depends on how motivated you are, right? Huh? So like, if you go into a help desk and be like, Hey, I can really do this for a year, get my experience under my belt, and boom, you know, out the door. I go to a cis admin network admin, DevOps whatever your field is. But it is a bandaid rip off for the first year. So just be prepared for that you know. It's an interesting conversation as far as, you know, taking that pay cut or not. So, you know, if your current position and salary sort of has plateaued I know that sounds weird, but you're like, if your current position in salary has plateaued, you're always gonna look for. Something more, but that may mean taking a step back and going in a different direction to get more in the long term. I guess that's kind of what that really means, right? So like are you at the dead end? Are you too burn? Are you gonna wait long enough for things to change? Like what does that, you know, what does that look like? You know, again, you can move. It's a little more dynamic in that aspect, but albeit it's probably a lower paying, you know, company or, you know, but the potential for growth is worth it in the long run, that sort of thing. So that's always an interesting one to kind of tether in your head. You know, or like we said, you know, you wanna kind of take a step backwards. You want less responsibility, not, you know, not more, you know, things of that nature. So, you know, or if it just comes down to a plane, you know, I hate my position. Right. You know, like, our good friend Dakota over there at the beat at it, dad, good. Check his. YouTube stuff out. He's got some great YouTube comment content. He was a construction worker. He drove a bulldozer for years until he stepped into this space, and now he's a director at an I S P up there at Oregon where he lives. So, you know, he's definitely a living example of that and saying, Hey, it can, you know, it can happen. So, you know, and he's told us multiple times that he just basically hated driving a bulldozer. He's like, he is just not for him. All kinds of weird hours and basically, you know, Mundane, monotonous, you know, stuff and he just wanted to do something more. So, interesting enough for him, he got into it and he's absolutely killing it. It's another one I saw at Cisco live last week. So, great dude. Really cool stuff. So I'll be on his channel the next couple of weeks. We're getting some content together, so that's gonna be cool. So any comments in there, Kyle? Anything else you wanna add?

Kyle: 16:02

Yeah, I would definitely say the that switching industries kind of thing like that, you know, jumping out, like you said he was in construction, going into it, getting your foot in the door, you might have to take that initial salary cut to you know, get all that under your belt or Yeah, just to get in the door so you can get that extra money, like you said, in in the IT space. You know, you kind of get the, those bigger bumps than you would if you were just doing another job. And I heard an analogy for this once that was like, you know, you gotta pull a bow back to shoot it forward.

Pat: 16:41

Sure.

Kyle: 16:41

And I was like, ah, it's a pretty good one, you know? So I always like to keep that one in my pocket.

Pat: 16:47

For sure. Yeah, for sure. Alex and I talked about this all the time when we were working together, you know, you know, and for somebody who's jumped jobs a lot, whether that's right or wrong, people have different opinions on it. Some says job jump jobs a lot like myself. You know, your next job should always be your biggest pay race, right? So if somebody's not gonna pay you where you're at, jumping jobs, somebody else will, right? That's just, it's just what it is. It's just the industry that we're in, and it's just you know, the times that we're in and it's, you know, get your money as fast as you can and, you know, hope to not hope not to burn out on the way there or completely hit your job that you wanna get outta tech completely. So I don't think anybody's at that point, but, you know, it's a real consideration. So, but yeah I would say most people that I talk to or that we talk to, I should take out they're coming from a different industry, a completely different. Industry or career change, you know, et cetera, et cetera. So that's a, that's always a good one to kind of see what it's out there and where people are coming from and what kind of jobs they're landing, you know, to get it, you know, to get into the industry. So, and obviously, you know, certification wise, a plus net plus sec plus in that order. I personally, I think in that order it looks pretty good on a resume. They get you through a door and kind of go from there. So, That's an interesting one. It's just a couple things we have down here from to help you prepare for a pay cut, I guess. And again, it's, you have to think about if it, is it just you or are you affecting other people? Life kids. You know, what significant other whatever. So they, they have a say in this too. Depending on how much of the household, you know, your side of the bills pay for or I should say your paycheck pays for yeah, I would just say, you know, There's all kinds of sites out there, right? Indeed. Glassdoor is a big one. Kyle, I think you mentioned fishbowl before on the show. There's a bunch of sites out there that basically you can kind of get a general idea of what. They're getting title wise, or position wise and in what part of the country, cuz that is also going to make a big difference as well. So, it's a very big difference living in California rather than, you know, say Florida or, you know, here in Pennsylvania. Cost of living is obviously different for everywhere from the state's perspective. So, it just depends on. Your you know, where you live, where you're looking to are you looking to relocate completely or are you kind of staying local to home? But yeah those three the big three, Glassdoor indeed and fishbowl, they help you kind of get an idea or throw a dart at a dartboard from a all right, what am I really gonna be making, you know, in this position for this foreseeable future and see if I can, you know, make that work right? That sort of thing. So on the flip side of that, Kind of gotta study your personal finances for a bit. And we kind of mentioned this a little bit ago, but like take a close look at where your money goes each month. So there's a fly on my screen, right? There we go. You know, identify expenses that you can't control, right? So, you know, rent or car, right? Those are usually fixed. You know, expenses, and then you kind of look at those that you can control, right? How much you go out for lunch, coffees you know, things of that nature. So kind of see where you can, you know, borrow from. Peter to pay Paul. Right. That sort of thing. Cause we, we've all done it. Right. So, again, kind of looking for ways to reduce any of those expenses that you can kind of control. Right. Have you, you know, have you watched Netflix lately? And if not, you know, Maybe take a break from that, you know, not paying that expense or whatever, that sort of thing. So again, it all rolls into, you know, adjusting budgets and reduces overspending, things of that nature. That, that's always that's always a big one. I've always been a big fan of this. Again, this isn't financial advice or anything, it's just kind of person what I've done. But you know, I'm always in the game of like paying myself first. So from every paycheck. A little something gets extracted from that paycheck and goes into a savings account just so you have something there for a rainy day. And it's worked really well for me. So, yeah, just something to think about the old adage of, you know, paying yourself first, right? That sort of thing. So that's an interesting one there as well. Priorities, right? So, Are you setting priorities to kind of allocate resources the best you can, right? That goes into budget and that sort of thing with yeah, definitely prioritizing your safe your goals there or prioritizing your spending so you get creating your own safety net, et cetera, et cetera. Credit's a big one too. You know, it's such an overlooked thing your credit score nowadays, but it is pretty, pretty important, right? Cause again, if you're moving looking for a new house, Place to rent, whatever. All your credit's gonna definitely come into play on that. So, but again, if you kind of take the pay cut you know, again, paying your bills and being able to keep up with that definitely affects your credit in that in that way. So, but I would say the last thing in that mindset is, you know, as far as. Like tips to prepare yourself for a pay cut is know yourself, right? So you know who you are, you, are you a spender? Are you a saver? You know, that sort of thing. So, you know, kinda don't buck the system. Like you, you know what you're gonna do. You know who you are, you know. Do you like to, you know, Kyle, you and I have a casino here. You know, 20 minutes from where we live. Do you like to go in and throw 20 bucks in every now and then, or, you know, or do you like to hit the bar and, you know, pay for a round of shots at the bar, that sort of thing. So you, you definitely know who you are. And I think that sort of comes into play as far as like, can you really do that from a preparation perspective of, okay, yep, I'm gonna take this new job. It's gonna suck in the short term, but it's gonna be better in the long term. Can I do it? You kind of have an idea of. Yes I can, or no I can't. Based on your personality.

Kyle: 22:39

Yeah, those are all pretty good. I'd say another thing too is try and, you know, if you know you're gonna make this jump, potentially try to live like in those constraints of the new salary.

Pat: 22:55

Yep. Good

Kyle: 22:56

know, so, so if you're taking a step back and you're, you know, you're losing out on 20 grand or something like that, just be like, well, let's see if we can, you know, make it work with the less. And then, you know, at least you would kinda have some confidence there and you know, run some numbers too. The math doesn't lie.

Pat: 23:12

Yeah, and for guys like me, math is hard, so I try not to, I try to stay away from that.

Kyle: 23:17

Yeah,

Pat: 23:18

Only math I can do is sub math. That's it. It's the only thing math I.

Kyle: 23:21

Yeah I'm sure there's some calculators online that'll help you budget and do all that stuff too.

Pat: 23:26

Absolutely. Yep. For sure. No, it's a good one. I think those are a couple good things, but yeah, we see a lot of folks coming from different industries and trying to say, okay, you know, try and get into tech and, you know, but I'm used to the lifestyle or I'm used to a certain paycheck, things of that nature. It, you know, the only thing I could really say is it doesn't last forever. Personally, I think I mean it's easy for me saying this now cuz. The position that Kyle and I are in personally I think it's worth it to kind of, again, rip that bandaid off and, you know, take it, take that on the chin for a year or two. And, but again it depends on how hard you work, right? So do you get, you know, do you study for a cert or for the next cert? Are you looking for the next pie in the sky as you're working that help desk job? Or that first that first break-in job? Cuz if you do, then that makes the time. Shorter. I think once you get that experience, get that cert, whatever it is, and then that kind of just, that shortens the time on how long you have to have the Band-Aid ripped off, right? Because then by that time, if you're a real shaker and a mover, you get a cert, get a year experience, you apply for some new jobs and boom, you're already, you know, you're kind of back in the general ballpark of where you were when you ripped the bandaid off. So, but it definitely depends on, on, you know, what your goals are and you know, where the the prize, you know, the prize at the end of the rainbow is so definitely suggested that, and we talk about this all the time. It, this, you know, this industry never stops. There's always something to do and the next the next wrong of the ladder to get to. Whether that's a cert, whether that's a title change, whether it's truly up the ladder as far as, you know, tech engineer. Architect, whatever, manager, director, blah blah, blah that sort of thing. So that's an interesting one as well. So there's some kind of tips on how to deal with that as far as what that looks like from a new job new, into tech, new industry perspective. Like I said, it's not gonna suck forever. It just, it will suck in the beginning, but it just depends on how fast you work to get yourself outta that hole. And not that it's a hole, but you know, it's a hole to you cause you took a pay cut. So just getting that back. But I kind of wanted to talk about too, like setting some expectations cuz I feel like. I feel like there's a lot of misconception out there of folks that just think tech is just this green space of money and people like lighting, you know, lighting money on fire, smoking it as a cigar cause they just have it to burn, you know, that sort of thing. It's definitely not the case in the last couple years. The budgets are what they are and. You know, salaries are what they are. But I feel like this is with the younger generation too, and I don't mean to sound like a get off my lawn an old man when I say this, but like, there's a lot of people out there, again, especially the younger generation, that just thinks they can get right outta high school or right outta college and then jump into like a senior engineer position pulling down a hundred K. Like that just doesn't exist. I, I don't know. Do you have thoughts on that, Kyle?

Kyle: 26:35

I, I've definitely seen that before. Somebody just, I don't know, maybe it's a good thing, you know, having that confidence. It's kind of unrealistic though, to just like coming in like, ah, get, I deserve all the money all for me, right? Yeah. So,

Pat: 26:51

Right. Yeah. I feel like that's a lot. I feel like it's a misconception of Yeah, tech is hot. No, no doubt. And it's all cyclical, right? So I think right now we're kind of in the downturn. But I do expect the tech market to kind of pop open here in the next month to couple of months. Cuz a lot of companies fiscal year ends in the June or July. Timeframe right around now. So like, once they get a new budget and the new fiscal year starts, that's when they can hire some folk. So I do feel like the tech sector is gonna pick up here in the next couple of months while people get their new budgets and they need, you know, they need more hands to do more projects and, you know, more support, that sort of thing. But again you know, I didn't have an argument with somebody last night. I won't name names or where I had the argument on, but you know, and he came across as very, to me, it was rude. And again, I don't want to be that old guy, you know, get off my lawn, these young whipper snappers, blah, blah, blah. I, it just it didn't come across well that, you know, he basically had it all figured out at. Like 18 or 19 years old. And I'm just like, dude, like what are you doing? You know, like he just, you know, oh well you gotta, you know, you got a ccna, which is great. Like fine. The earlier you can get it, the better that sets you up for success. And I don't even mind the confidence that he had. That's not the problem either. The problem that I had with him is just, he was just like, Well, yeah. My first job is gonna be a senior and I'm gonna be ma a senior, whatever, and I'm gonna be making, you know, X amount. I'm just like that. That doesn't happen. He's like, well, I'm gonna have to prove you wrong. Then I'm like, well, first of all, young man, like, that's not where this conversation was going. Like, you know what I mean? Like he just had this aura about him that I just didn't appreciate. And it's, again, it's not his, it's not his go get him attitude or the gum shoe that he had. I'm all for it. All I was saying was nobody. In their right mind, or I should say no, but it's very difficult. I shouldn't say nobody. It's very difficult to come out of school with just assert and no real life exp no real world tech experience. You just don't start at the top. You don't start at a senior level. No one is going to give you the keys to the network castle with just a ccna. It doesn't exist. I dunno. Call you something on that.

Kyle: 29:23

No, I definitely think you're right with that. It just, You know, when you're playing the odds I've never seen people just jump out with certs and no experience and just start making money hand over fists like that. Like without putting in the time and getting the the experience and stuff under the belt. Could it happen? Sure. But I've personally never experienced it.

Pat: 29:48

Yep. Yeah, and I was kind of telling him last time, I was like, dude, like, like, you know, we, I did this through high school. I don't know, you started in college with the IT stuff, Kyle, is that right?

Kyle: 29:59

no. Before that I was just kind of doing it as like a funny hobby, but I didn't, you know, I didn't really have any direction.

Pat: 30:06

I gotcha. So I was doing this in high school. I was doing the Cisco Network Academy, literally at the devotee in high school. And so, And then I took it again with you in college, Kyle. Like it was literally the same exact course. And it took me two or three times to like get my head wrapped around what the hell this is. And so, you know, and I was like, look, I've been studying this stuff for years. And then I didn't really get my first network engineer title till 2013 and I didn't get my own keys to the castle. Like the guy, like if something breaks, you better know how to fix it cuz there's no one else until 2017. Like Kyle, you and I went to college in 2004. Like then it's a massive like, Time shift in years to like really get to sort to the top right, or at least somewhat mid-level and being called, you know, having the engineered title. And so for this person to come out and being like, wow, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get a senior role and I'm gonna get the keys of the castle with only a ccna and no actual real wor world experience. It doesn't exist. At least to me it doesn't exist. I don't know maybe I'm just an old funny duddy, but no I would say you gotta tether your expectations of what. Your salary is going to be like, again, you're not gonna walk in here, especially from a career change with no prior real world experience and earn. Even at a help desk level, you're like, don't come in here and be like, oh yeah, you know, 70 k like that doesn't really exist. Now, again, it depends on what part of the country you're in, and it depends on the company that you're applying for, right? So, you know, every company is different, but the averages are just, they're just not that. So, you know, just take a note from two gray haired. Experienced gentlemen that are talking on this podcast. It just doesn't, it doesn't happen. It happens, you know, it doesn't happen more often than it does. So just take that for what it's worth. But yeah, I just found it interesting that you know, we had that little discussion last night and he just, he had this whole thing about how he was gonna do this, and this, and just like, man, I, you know, I want to set the world off fire at 19 too. And it just doesn't play out like he wanted to, which is, you know, the whole deal. So, I don't know if you have any more thoughts or comments on that call.

Kyle: 32:38

No, I think you pretty much you covered all of that cuz same, you know, but what is it full of piss and vinegar? Is that, is, that is right.

Pat: 32:48

That's it.

Kyle: 32:50

But you know, I mean, if I knew what I know now, when I was 19. I think to be a whole lot different.

Pat: 32:56

Oh my God. Yeah, I'd be I'd be living in the Beverly Hills baby. You know what I mean? Anyway so actually I found that an interesting Survey out there that was run by C N B C as of last year March of last year. It was an interesting stat. One third of job switchers took a pay cut for a better work life balance. There you go. So it happens more often than you really think. People technically do go backwards. So, you know, last year or through the Covid thing, you had the, you know, the great resignation as they dubbed it, right? Or, you know, quiet quitters, right? That was another big term going around people doing just enough to not get fired, but. Do no more, no less, you know, that kind of thing. Which I've seen. It's pretty rampant. So I've definitely seen it. But yeah people value their, like you said, call, they're in mental health and, you know, the work life balance and I totally get it. Now. They've got kids and stuff. I, you know, I'd be with'em all day if I could, you know, that kind of thing. So, you know, with the remote thing, and I think it's an interesting trend that Companies are having people come back into the office. And I think it's an interesting one. I think it's for different reasons than what companies are saying. It's for you know, they say it's for the collab and it's for, you know, oh, you get to see your coworkers and blah, blah, blah. It's, I don't really care about any of that, to be honest with you. I think it's, you know, they've signed. Massive long-term building leases, and it's an empty space that, that people aren't working out of. So I think they're trying to get as many people as they can back in an office so they're not pissing money away. But that's just my opinion. Who knows? I don't know. I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. I'm surprised people listened to us at all. So there you go. I'm gonna say it right now. So, But yeah it's an interesting survey that they had here. They basically said about 20% of workers said they would take a 10% pay cut if it meant they could work for themselves or have better hours. So, right. There you go. Work life balance is huge. You know, we talk about it all the time, you know. You gotta be able to go forward and you gotta take care of yourself. That's the number one thing. You know, people want to be connected all the time. And you know, your work phone's at your side all the time. It's like, why? For what? To work, you know, to get yourself buried into work and God forbid something happened to you, that place will have that seat filled before your freaking body's

Kyle: 35:20

All right.

Pat: 35:20

you know what I mean? So lot. So, I mean, that's, it's not negative. That's just the way it is. You know, so it's an interesting one there. You know, it, again, you have all these decisions to to make or to consider I should say. When kind of. You know, making that transition and whatnot. But it's definitely it's definitely a trend in, you know, sort of taking a step back to move forward, especially in the last three years with the Covid thing. I think it's, I think it's more rampant than maybe even before. You know, before that somewhat of a normal world. I think it's a little too risky, but now I think in the Covid era, Or I should say the post covid world which I think is weird too, and this is kind of off the topic, but like we talk about. Time periods like in this country. Like, I remember Kyle was like, oh yeah, pre nine 11 or now it's post, then it was post nine 11 and now it's pre Covid and post covid. Like we, we had these events that like mark time and like, it's just so weird. Anyway, it's just like, oh, like what kind of time you talking about? This is before Covid or after Covid. I'm like gee. Anyway So, yeah, that's an interesting one here to say that, you know, like I said, a third of job switchers took a pay cut. So for those of you that are thinking about it, it's not as uncommon as you may think people are doing it. So, I would say look, especially if you're going into tech, I think the future is very bright as it always usually is. We're the folks driving innovation and. You know, playing with all the cool stuff. So, depends on how hard you work. It could be a year, it could be two, it could be five. It just depends on, you know, kind of how hard you are willing to work to get there and get to the next rung and, you know, get you back on, you know, on par with your salary before you made the change. So that's definitely something to to kind of look forward to there. So, anything else, Kyle?

Kyle: 37:07

No. I mean, come play with us, you know, or get piled into the IT space.

Pat: 37:12

That's it. And that's the other thing too. I kind of mentioned that from an old man perspective, cuz I've definitely dealt with this from a newbie perspective when I was a young pup that was, you know, wet behind his ears. If you will, as the saying goes here in the States I've definitely seen old people, or I should say old people, older people, or more seasoned people in this industry kind of hang on to knowledge, just so they feel like they have. I don't wanna say a purpose, but like, Hey, they can't fire me if I'm the only one that knows this. You know, that sort of thing. Ha. Have you ever come across that Kyle?

Kyle: 37:48

Yeah. All the time

Pat: 37:49

Yeah. Happens all the time.

Kyle: 37:52

yeah, just so they they stay relevant or stay

Pat: 37:55

yeah.

Kyle: 37:55

something.

Pat: 37:57

Yep. I don't see it as much now, but like when I was a newbie, man, that happened all the time. There was just some more seasoned folks that basically would not share knowledge with you just because they thought. You were gonna like take their job or, you know, if somebody else knew it outside of them, they weren't needed anymore. I'm like, dude, like that's not even close to being correct. There's, trust me when I say this, there is enough work for everybody. Like it's just, it just is what it is. Like this, the whole world runs on tech. There is definitely enough work for everybody. So don't let that be a hindrance and yeah, come hang out. Come. Like Kyle said, come play with us and we'll be we'll be waiting and. Yeah, if that means I could do less and kind of share some of my workload, man, I'd take 10 people tomorrow. You know what I mean? I would take that tomorrow a hundred percent. So yeah, so I, that's kind of it. That was a, it was a bit of a short one just cuz of the topic and whatnot. So I think these non-technical topics I think do a little shorter just cuz of the nature of them. But yeah, we definitely got some suggestions from some folks as far as some topics. So we wanted to throw that out there. And this was one of them that was, that came up quite a bit. So, you know, kind of how to prepare or what that looks like from salary cut perspective just to get into tech that sort of thing that one came up quite a bit. So, we figured we would do one on this and yeah, we'll be we'll be doing the Cisco Live recap one next week when Alex gets back with us here. So we figured we'll sneak this one in and see what everybody thinks. So if you got any tips for us or something that we missed, or if you think we're completely full of shit. Definitely let us know. I don't care. Either way, let us know. It's cool we're big boys. We can take it. So, yeah, let us know. Hit us up on Twitter or email us or any of that kind of stuff. We'll definitely yeah, the more conversation we had, the better and we'll see see where things go. So Kyle, anything else before we put the old stamp on this one?

Kyle: 39:47

No, I think that's it.

Pat: 39:49

Cool. Look at that. Another successful, or at least I hope so successful episode. I'm gonna thank everybody for joining this week on breaking Down the Bites. Again, make sure you visit our website, breakingbytespod.io where you can subscribe to the show on your platform or choice. Right? There's links up there for The Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcast Stitcher. Or if you just need an RSS feed that's up there too. So go pluck what you wish. Kyle, you gotta gimme a bio man for the for the website. I still have Dean's stuff up there, so I got you and Alex on a bio, a nice little headshot, and we'll throw you up there so people can see what your ugly mug looks

Kyle: 40:26

Oh my goodness.

Pat: 40:28

I'm in there.

Kyle: 40:29

be be breaking the internet in all the wrong ways.

Pat: 40:33

That's it. Like, oh, our podcast is super popular cuz you're so ugly, Kyle. Is that what it's it's possible. Stay tuned folks. You don't know. Stranger Things have gone viral. Let's go while you're in the Apple Podcast, cuz that's where most of you listen. Throw us a rating, that would be awesome. Or leave us a review that plays with the algorithms to get more. More eyes and ears on us, which is always the goal of this. So, or, you know, simply tell a friend that works just as well in today's check driven world. Word of mouth that, that seems to be super popular, right? So, that helps us out too. Again, social's, LinkedIn, Twitter Facebook Discord server. It's all out there. And the show notes come say, hi survey the. It's like a, it's just not a satisfaction survey, but it's basically just a suggestions box sort of thing. Just helps us kind of hone in who you are, you know, that sort of thing. So we don't really know who you are, it's just gives us pretty answers and charts and graphs and stuff like that. And then we kind of, we aim our content around that. So if you wanna hear something, let us know. In the survey, at the bo at the very last question is is an open text box. You can kind of type what you want and see what. Yeah, if you want us to do a certain episode on something, certainly let us know. We can we can certainly do that. So again, Kyle, man, it's been awesome as usual. Thanks for hanging and everybody out there. Thanks for hanging. We'll see you next week

Kyle: 41:55

So along.