Dating, Self-Love, and Post-Breakup Friendships

In this episode of the M3 BearCast, Malcolm Travers explores various issues within the gay community, particularly focusing on dating, body positivity, self-esteem, and post-breakup friendships. Featuring a segment on dating dynamics within gay relationships, the script delves into a personal story about a man's disillusionment with romantic pursuits. Malcolm discusses themes such as hookup culture, intimacy, and taking responsibility for one's actions. The episode also addresses a listener's struggle with body image and societal acceptance, offering advice on self-love and outward confidence. Finally, Malcolm examines the complexities of remaining friends after a breakup, especially in the context of small, close-knit communities.

00:00 Welcome to M3 BearCast
00:23 Introduction to Today's Topics
01:30 A Personal Story on Dating in the Gay Community
04:22 Analyzing the Story: Hookups vs. Relationships
12:09 Self-Love and Body Positivity
22:49 Navigating Friendships After Breakups
31:38 Conclusion and Patron Information


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Transcript

  📍  Hello, and welcome to the M3 BearCast. My name is Malcolm Travers. MailMediaMind is a grassroots organization dedicated to uplifting and unifying our community through dialogue, insight, creativity, and knowledge. And every Tuesday, I release a podcast that is a summation of some of the topics that I do on our live streams.

I have one on Monday and on Wednesday at youtube. com slash MailMediaMind. And today I'm going to bring up a host of issues dealing with dating dating in the gay community are comfort with ourselves, body positivity and self esteem and whether or not we want to remain friends with exes and how that affects social gatherings when it comes to the gay community and just in general do you stay friends with your ex?

All right, here come the topics.

   Hello and welcome to the M3 BearCast. My name is Malcolm Travers. In this episode I want to bring up some topics around dating in the gay community and this came up from a live stream video that I posted to our group and we discussed on I think three different occasions. I have a show on Mondays at noon.

Devon was filling in but typically Greg and I have a lunchtime discussion, and I brought up a video of a young man who was telling the story of why he no longer dates romantically in the gay community, and at the end of it, he gave this very blanket statement about the way that gays behave. And I'm going to play the video for you now and talk about it a little bit on the other side.

So let me tell y'all the exact moment when I decided to give up on romantically pursuing men. So boom, I meet this dude about two years ago, roughly around two years ago, around October 2022, right? When we first started linking up, it was just a link up. Y'all know when we just linking up, it's just a link.

But then we found out we had a friendship there because we had a lot of things in common. We played video games together. We had the same interest in movies. It escalated to a friendship real quick. So now, not only is he coming over, we doing a BAM, but We also playing hours of video games, watching TV, going to the movies, going on little dates and every now and again.

After around month five, six, I'm like, all right, my feelings is growing. And you hear damn near every day, like I get home from work. What are we doing? I'm not, I'm too old to be playing house. And he told me that basically he didn't want a relationship with me. He just liked where we was at. I said, thank you for being honest.

I appreciate your honesty. So with me knowing that information, I still actively, remained friends with him, but I It was very transparent with him. I was like, that's gonna be the case. I'm going to romantically pursue other people. And he said, bet. All right, bet. One night, now, I don't know if this is petty or not, but one night he was over my house.

I didn't tell him I had a date that night, but I told him, I said, in so many words, you have to go because I'm about to get ready to go on a date. And he like, paused. And he just quietly gathered his things and left. Next thing you know, I'm getting all kinds of messages when he's far down the street. I just feel so jealous.

I can't believe you on a date with another man. Did I not tell you how I felt about you and you told me that you didn't feel the same? What did you expect me to do? So like a dumbass, I think the next day it was, he came over, we talked, and he basically told me that he does want to be with me. He just didn't know how to vocalize his feelings.

And like a dumbass, I believe. A month goes on after that talk, and feelings of resentment on my end start to rise for him because I feel like, why did it take me to go on another date with another man for you to Unmask these feelings about me so then one random day while I go while I'm out with my friends He texts me like yeah, can I have your permission or he's not really asking for permission He's just telling me like I want to be sexual with other people While still being sexual and still being a friendship with you and that puts me off so bad I'm, just like nah, hold on You already told me that you wanted to be here and you already told me stop me from wanting to date another man And that's when I figured out I said men just want to have what they want And when they want it, how they want it, and when they no longer want it anymore, they just be like, whatever.

And the territorial instinct of him kicked in when he saw me with somebody else potentially having what he wanted. But at the same time, while wanting me, he wanted other people. Baby, I turned him every which way but loose. He, I, that was the only time That I really did crash out on a motherfucker intentionally.

I was crashing out on him because I felt so betrayed, but that was the moment I was like, Yeah, niggas ain't shit. I'm better off just getting what I want from y'all and moving on. And I hate that's the mentality that I have adapted now, because now it's just, I don't even look or consider men in a romantic way.

way, because it's just, I know what y'all about, I know the kind of games y'all play, I know, I've seen it all, I've done it all, I'm over it now, so now, all I, all we can do is a sexual act, and after that, you can go. And it may be fucked up to be that way, but at the same time, that's the reality of being gay, I don't know.

And I think one of the major problems that I had with his take was the fact that he did not seem to take responsibility for his own actions in the situation that he found himself in. So first of all, it is a very common thing for gay men to hook up with one another on apps like Grindr, Jacked, Sniffies, I've never used, but I'm accustomed to a few of the apps.

And it's a pretty wild west situation where I think the normal rules of decorum go out the window and it's all about, getting a hook up as quickly as possible without actually getting to know the person. In fact, there's a lot of times where you can't even get some of the most basic information about a person.

Sometimes people want to meet up even without exchanging photos, just fake names. Locations, get it done, get it out, and that is something that gay people do. I guess it's a longer tradition of people who live in the closet, and, relationships were not a goal of many gay men at that time.

It was really just to get your needs met and to get out. And now, I think there's this sort of confusion of, this is normal,  and it has been normalized amongst gay men, and yet they still may want a relationship as well. And I think there's just a huge problem with thinking that you can have both at the same time.

Not to say that you can't, it's just that in pursuing one, you somewhat damage the prospects of the other. So in this case, this young man was doing the hookup thing and he was doing the hookup thing. Which I assume he's a younger man. I did a lot of that when I was younger. I think a lot of us saw that as the easiest path to getting what we wanted.

And not really seeing the consequences of that behavior. And I'll get to that as soon as I can. But basically, when you have these sorts of hookups, I think it goes one of three ways. Either it's a complete disaster. You never want to see this person again. It's pretty blah. Maybe some good things, some bad things.

And you may or may not see them again, but oftentimes you don't, or it can go amazingly, like you have a true physical connection and you want to make it a repeat of those three. I think the most dangerous is the one where you want to repeat, because when people I've met in that way,  there's, I think a certain mindset, a certain pathway.

for the path of least resistance. You, you don't want to actually have to negotiate boundaries in any way. I think there's a lot of, fast shortcuts to,  making interactions work. Saying, top bottom verse, safe unsafe, condoms are, You know, prep, whatever it may be, status, my place, yours, very shorthand.

If you have any special requests, they may be just disregarded. And when you are trying to have repeats, you start to try to take into account the person's emotional well being. What are they enjoying themselves? What kind of person are they? They start to flesh out as an actual human being.

And for whatever reason, sometimes people don't want to do that. They're either afraid of intimacy or they've never built that muscle up because most of their sexual encounters were without intimacy and intimacy can take work. It can take vulnerability. It can be difficult. Now I'm not saying that people who hook up are incapable of vulnerability and intimacy, but It does indicate that they have not really been using those muscles.

And I think that was one of the issues I had with this young man,  trying to turn a hookup into a relationship. Certainly they were sitting in their house. They were there, they enjoyed their company, and somehow that meant that they were supposed to be in some partnership with one another, which I think was a mistake, because I think it was just a.

Relationship of convenience, right? The sex was good. It was popping off. You happen to some of the same things and you were not telling them to leave, which I think is a mistake if you're just going to be doing the hookup, because this is exactly what can happen. He got his feelings hurt when he told him that he didn't want to be exclusive in a relationship.

And so instead of saying goodbye, I don't want to see you anymore. He kept things going with this man until the time came where he had a date with someone else. He said he was going to date other people, but I think he intentionally put it in their face. He says he wasn't sure if he was being shady, but I don't think you say you weren't sure if you're being shady unless you're being shady.

And he wanted to flaunt it in his face. And to see if he would give a get a reaction out of him and he got a reaction. He got the reaction that he was looking for. He was saying that he showed a lot of jealousy when he was down the street. I'm sure he ate that up, and when he got what he wanted, he was then resentful that he got what he wanted because why did I have to go through all of that to get you to show me that you actually cared about me?

The sort of games that people play, right? So you set up a situation where you get what you want and then you don't want what you get , I think it's human nature and I don't want to sound too harsh, but it's also something that I'm hoping that all of us who listen to his story could maybe learn from.

That, be careful what you ask for, because you might just get it, right? And this is a perfect example of that scenario. He got what he wanted. And what he wanted was heartache, so now that he founds himself in this situation where he's blaming everyone but himself and saying that I guess this is what it is like to be gay, I want to offer an alternative, which is heteronormative, certainly, but let's be real.

Gay men have the opportunity to have sex more than we maybe ought to. That if we want to go to the path of least resistance, that path is far easier for us than it is for straight men. Certainly straight men have definitely gone down that path as well, but considering that our sexual targets or other men, there's far less resistance from the men who would have sex with us, right?

And if you're looking for something more serious, I think we have to build the muscle of compassion, of vulnerability, of intimacy, and of, I dare say, chastity. Understanding that,  if things are not working out with this one person, running to the apps to be with someone else immediately, or, if things are not moving fast enough, not getting itchy and wanting to relieve ourselves with someone else, I think, is a muscle that has to be built.

And in order to do that, and to find that in other people, I think you have to practice that in yourself. And I find it unfortunate that This has to be considered heteronormative because I just think it's a desire that all of us have for love and affection beyond just the physical. And, just indulging in shallow trysts to me seems like a certain way to, maintain and perpetuate shallow relationships.

And,  I say this out of any abundance of clarity for myself. I'm looking for something more substantial and it is fucking dry out here without, without resorting to the shallow relationships, man. It is, it's a slim pickings. And I think I want to discuss that a little bit more,  in a future segment.

About the difference between myself and a lot of other people I, I talk to in the gay community. Because they live in larger cities. And cities that have large gay populations. Versus someone like myself who lives in a very small town. In a, in deep red country. What the differences there might be. 

   I'm getting ready for my live streams coming up this week, and I have a call from the Savage Lovecast that,  really got me to thinking about something that I've been talking about for a while now, which is about self love, and I'm going to play it here. 

  Hey, Dan, Nancy and the text heavy at risk youth 33 year old by guy here. Since I was a kid, I have always been overweight. I've always been heavy and I've never liked the way I look. If anything, there's always been a pretty heavy disdain for the, my own body most of the time. And I've never felt comfortable in my body period.

It's resulted in me not feeling comfortable exploring my sexuality in any way, shape, or form, and has stifled me from even potentially pursuing relationships, really. And also tied to that is the fear of standing out. It's, I moved around a lot as a kid and I have a lot of trauma around perpetually being the new kid.

And oftentimes standing out feels like it can result in death, societal, social death, essentially, because that's the way I did experience things. Sometimes as a kid, being heavier, a big guy, taller, as well as I have a red beard. And frankly, there are days where actually most days I look like a Viking.

I naturally stand out. And due to that fear of being seen and witnessed, I often wear very bland clothing and I've. Limited myself and never allowed myself to explore my sexuality in any way, shape, or form, despite knowing I will enjoy certain things. My big issues are, and questions, how can I overcome that, frankly, hatred of my body to allow myself to explore my sexuality in meaningful ways?

And how can I feel more comfortable just, frankly, existing and, being someone I feel comfortable being?



So when it comes to learning how to love yourself as you are, I think it is important to recognize that There isn't any single self improvement tactic that really gets you into a place where you can feel comfortable being who you are, if you have been conditioned to feel that there's something wrong with you.

So one of the things that made me want to choose this call is because I know that Devon happens to be one of the types of people who would find this type of person very attractive, right? And of course it doesn't matter that someone else outside yourself finds you attractive, it's just ironic, right?

That someone who is so concerned about being outside of the mainstream, big and red headed, red haired,  tall, And I assume some things about him that I don't know, just just being uncomfortable with yourself as a person, maybe feeling awkward in social situations. But let me say that this is something that has to work from the inside out.

Obtaining certain goals, say losing weight or looking a certain way. is only going to patch over a problem because it moves you away from the actual problem, which is something internal. So it begins with some introspection. I think it begins with the idea that there are different narratives about what is attractive and what is unattractive.

And you have to think about how someone benefits from those narratives, and recognizing that you're clearly not the one benefiting from the narrative that you need to be a certain kind of way. And I think you start one step at a time rewriting those narratives, right? Saying what are some of the benefits of being big and tall, right?

I noticed that it can cut either way depending on how you look at it, right? You can take up space. You,  are, you are noticeable from a far distance, right? If you're in a crowd, you just see the tall guy standing out like a sore thumb. And that can make you feel like there's a spotlight on you a lot of the times.

And I can see how that is a problem because I've experienced it myself, especially when I was younger. Like for instance, when I was in kindergarten, I was already like five feet tall, like that was the height of,  probably someone who was in high school when I was in kindergarten, it was ridiculous.

People thought I was going to be a giant. And I say, thank goodness for myself. I did not, grow according to my,  younger years, but I definitely internalized some of those,  wanting to stand in the corner, sit down. and not be recognized. However, there are situations where that can come in handy.

Say for instance, I think I feel a certain amount of safety in public, say for instance, walking around the neighborhood, I recognize that my height and size give me somewhat of an aura of protection because anyone who would want to fuck with me is going to think twice about it, despite the fact that I might be.

the biggest squish that ever lived. I could be a Teletubby, I am not,  a fighter. I'm a runner. I'm a hider. I'm an avoider. But of course, but I'm also a difficult target. And so that gives me a certain,  sense of security when I'm out in public. Now that can cut the other way in the sense that,  people will feel sometimes fearful Say for instance, if I'm walking and I happen to be on the same path as they are and so forth, say a block or two, I'm actually, catching up, pacing up behind them.

This happened to me actually fairly recently. I don't know, a guy was, walking and just not really paying attention and I was passing him on his left side and he was startled, by me. Now he could have been startled by anyone, but I think my size played into that fear. And, I gave him the jolly giant wave and smile and, went on about my way.

But I think it really is about, that an encounter like that is all about how you frame it. Was I,  menacing this poor man who's an older guy by, being a big and tall guy passing him on the street, or, is this privilege of,  security something that I should be grateful for despite the fact that sometimes it unnerves people, and I think you have to be aware of both and be grateful for the benefits of it. And so I was thinking about this guy,  saying that he wears very bland clothes so that he doesn't stand out. I, of course, I'm thinking that this doesn't help the situation much. And I don't know if you want to go to the other extreme of, wearing bright and bold colors.

But I think, again, I would start asking myself, what is it that I like? Start with, maybe some t shirts or,  prints or role models, really. Maybe some,  some characters in fiction or,  actors or famous celebrities that you,  admire and see what they wear and do something that they're doing.

And, I would say embody a role. If you don't like yourself in the body that you're in,  I sometimes feel comfortable saying that you can pretend to be someone else in certain circumstances. Create a character for yourself. One who is more bold, and outgoing than you are and base it on someone you admire or, imagine yourself to be.

And,  think of yourself as cool, think of your alter ego as cool and confident, even if you in this moment are not. And, eventually I feel like it just becomes what you are, like the more you do it, the more you become it. And people call it,  fake it till you make it.

I don't know why I don't like that phrase, but it's basically that phrase. I would say be it till you become it or pretend to be it until you become it. Either way,  it works. The, you become what you frequently do, and so whether you do it as a character or as yourself, eventually you become that embodied person.

And I think that's,  important. Another thing to consider is the media that you consume. And, it's kind of garbage in garbage out type deals. So if you are absorbing some negative messages about being bigger,  Maybe you should cut that out,  and start to view and be around people who admire and appreciate larger men.

I think that is, it is about the circumstances that you find yourself in sometimes. And,  when people are giving you negativity, push back. If someone has some, thing to say about your, size,  don't just internalize it, push back and say, externalize it, say what it is that you don't like about it.

Push the envelope a little bit, make yourself uncomfortable a little bit and,  stand up for yourself because I think there are a lot of little micro aggressions that people,  assert toward people who are big. And just tell him, I don't like, I don't like you call me big man all the time.

That's just stupid. I am more than just a big dude. My name is Malcolm. Like he's, you can remember my name, but things like that take practice and time to accomplish. And so I would say also be kind to yourself and give yourself time to Settle into this new person that you're becoming because,  I would say I'm still in a work in progress.

Like I know a lot of that's so cliche, I figured that I needed to love myself before I reshape my body. I'm in the process of doing it. I,  I find myself enjoying my workouts. In fact, I feel off when I miss them. And I'm eating a lot better, but I have accumulated a lot of weight over the years from struggles with my mental health and self isolation and really just trying to comfort myself with food.

And so that is not going to undo itself overnight. And questions like this, the callers. response like this,  tug at my heartstrings in a way that I can't,  deny. Like it is just,  something that I am still going through and still in the process of getting there. And getting into therapy helps, having a regular routine.

I think for me, swimming was helpful. Simply because it required me to be unrobed in front of people, right? Like my whole body,  you can see it. I can't hide any of it and how normalizing that can be and how friendly people can be because I think they understand how uncomfortable people can be when they're overweight and swimming.

And,  It has nothing been, has been nothing but a positive experience for me and,  affirming of who I am as I am, even while I am trying to shape myself into something better. So I guess that's my rambling way of saying keep going. It takes a while, but you can get there. 

  All right. So I have a, another topic for you and this is a perennial one. I think that comes up on the live stream several times,  about remaining friends after a breakup. I'm going to play the video right here. This is from tick tock and I'll be right back.

After four months, I, 50 female, recently stopped seeing someone, 54 male, who didn't want to commit. I initially agreed to friendship but changed my mind after a week because I still had romantic feelings. He said he was disappointed but understood and hoped I'd change my mind. He circled back after a week and we talked briefly.

We hang in the same neighborhood and will likely run into each other regularly. So I get the logic and I don't want to seem childish. But it seems like he's offering friendship as a peace offering for his inability to commit. Plus, I don't want to be bread crumbed. I just want to process the breakup. How do I politely say thanks but no thanks to his friendship suggestion?

Been there, done that. It is extremely difficult to be friends with somebody that you still have romantic feelings for. In the friendship role, you have to be very careful with the boundaries you may cross. Personally, I would just break it down and express my true feelings while we can't be friends and call it a day.

In the many situations I've seen before like this. The person just wants access to you. They want you to be available to them when it's convenient for them. They want the phone calls. They want the text messages. They want the dinner dates. Eventually they'll want the intimacy, but they don't want the commitment.

So I do think that there are a few things that,  have to be said that typically our audience is,  gay men and in relationships like ours, especially gay black men,  our community is so small that I found that this actually has a deleterious effect on us having gatherings for, our live streams and podcasts and things like that.

Because oftentimes when you invite a large group of gay men,  there are going to be times when people's exes are also invited to the same event, because this is a small community. And I think where the letter,  that this person read, he mentions that she is in a neighborhood where she is going to see this guy often, and she wants to try to be at peace with them by, establishing a friendship.

And I don't think that's necessary. One of the reasons why is that a friendship requires a certain amount of,  equal footing as far as,  emotional connection. If you have emotional feelings for them and their feelings are less,  for you,  that's just not conducive for a fair and equitable friendship.

Plus not only that,  I think there is a point at which you have to prioritize your own piece. I think this is something that comes up a lot for people who do the breaking up. We often get, I think, a lot less sympathy from people than when someone went through a traumatic or, getting dumped, or being forced to leave a relationship that they wish they could continue, whereas in a situation like this, you made the rational decision to leave a relationship that is promising one that you actually enjoy.

But you realize that you have different priorities, right? Like the person doesn't want to commit. They don't want a long term relationship. Maybe you want kids, they don't want kids. Maybe their lifestyle is just different than yours. Maybe their beliefs are just incompatible with yours. But everything else in the relationship is very compatible and very nice, in fact.

And,  having to give up on all these good things because you know you deserve this one thing that you're asking for, maybe a few things, whatever it might be,  can be difficult. And oftentimes you just lack. the social support from the people around you, the sympathy, that,  the feelings that someone goes through, even when they're the ones who are breaking up with someone else.

And so I think you should allow yourself to feel the feelings, even if you're not getting support from other people and realize that you're entitled to feel bad about the situation. And I think the other thing is, I think in the video, I noted something of a fear that you would, you're being petty in some sort of way,  by not wanting to accept a friendship from somebody.

And,  I think that fear is very unfounded. Someone might perceive you as petty. I don't think that's,  unfounded. People might perceive that, but people make a lot of mistakes. The truth is, it is completely reasonable to not want to,  be in friendship, contact, regular contact with somebody who you have romantic feelings for that you cannot express because you've made the decision that you are not compatible for whatever reason.

In this case,  the level of commitment that you require is not there. And so a relationship with you is not possible. So in a situation like that, you basically just state I, you, the way that I would put it is, I really would like to remain friends with you, cause we have such a, I really enjoyed our relationship and, but at the end of the day, I recognize that.

I need to focus on moving on with my life and being friends with you right now. And I probably would take the word right now being friends with you would get in the way of my process of healing the end of this relationship. And so I cannot be friends with you. That does not mean we can't be friendly.

And, when you see them in the neighborhood, you wave. You say hello, you're someone I know, you don't pretend they don't exist. But then if they want to stand around and talk or whatever, you're just like, Oh no, we're not friends. We're clearly not friends. You can go on about your day. We're neighbors.

We're in the neighborhood. I'm being friendly for social reasons. And,  I thought about that for a conversation that we had about,  planning events within the gay community that oftentimes, this is something that some gay men struggle with, is learning how to be friendly with people that they are no longer friends with.

Now, some of those ends of relationships weren't even relationships, as I understand it. Sometimes it's just, a sexual tryst or something, and now you no longer see them as social engagement material, if you had some sort of,  hookup or very short term relationship. And that's unfortunate.

I don't know. I don't know if there's any solution for that. I always am trying to find,  problem solutions to problems that,  face our community. And,  I think instead of finding solutions, I just. I'm now just trying to understand the problems a little better. Cause this is one I don't quite understand yet.

I'm not that type of person. I have been in situations like that,  where exes pretended like I didn't exist,  when we were in the same social situations, and then later,  corrected. the situation. I don't know what it was about. Maybe it was,  out of respect for the person that they're with now.

They don't want to acknowledge their exes in public. I don't know. I didn't get it. I didn't feel hurt. I was just more confused by the whole scenario. Like I don't care that much. I didn't care. But yeah, it is a thing. And I think it matters a lot more. For those who are in smaller communities, because we're bound to run into each other after the ends of relationships.

I often get a little nervous about,  friends of mine who are in a relationship with each other. Because then I, I feel if their relationship ends, or when it ends, Will I be forced to decide and take sides? You know how that can happen? And, It is,  It is something that I hope I can work on as an individual so that I can model that for others.

To be gracious and allow people their space and not force myself on them. To allow them to heal and then to see how,  how future engagements can be as awkward as they need to be and trying not to avoid awkwardness in service of,  some sort of smoothness that isn't really necessary.

 📍 Awkwardness is not the worst thing in the world. And I think like avoiding public contact with somebody is a lot worse than just having some awkward conversations now and again. But what do you think? I'm hoping that when I bring this up for the live stream, I have some interactions with the guys I often learn from.

their experiences with this because mine are fairly limited and that's the idea to bring up topics that I might not have as much experience to break down and we'll see how that goes on the live streams this week. All right.  All right. And that'll do it for this episode of the M3 BearCast. If you enjoyed listening to this podcast, you can also become a patron. As a patron, you'll get access to this podcast early as a video. And we have live streams on our YouTube channel. And we have after shows just for our patrons. And we just,

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