When Your Marriage Doesn't Match Your Dreams

Her inquiry was raw and brimming with emotion. To conclude, she anonymously posted, "I'm committed to our marriage, but I am tired." I'm aware that many have experienced this same sentiment in their marriages, even though Christians often feel pressure to have a different kind of marriage. Yet, what are you to do when you feel trapped and unhappy? Can love and connection truly endure in a marriage?

I invite you to join me on what may be my most candid podcast yet. I welcome you to sit in the booth as my guest and I engage in an honest conversation about expectations for date nights, issues of control, and the impact of sin and discord. This is a marriage podcast that diverges from the typical "Christian" responses you may have encountered.

Whether you've listened to every episode of the Parenting to Impress podcast or none at all, I encourage you to click "play" above and discover that you are not alone. There is hope.

Helpful Links:

• Re|Engage
• A Weekend to Remember
• Marriage Recovery Center

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Thanks for listening!

Transcript

This transcript has been edited for clarity.

Rachelle: 0:00

I wanted to be the captain.  I didn't want to be the player on the bench. I think in a marriage you have to work together as a team, and we did not do that well.

Heidi Franz: 0:11

Welcome back to Parenting to Impress, your go-to podcast to learn practical ways to love God and love others and impress this on the hearts of your children. I am your host, Heidi Franz, a mom who's made a lot of mistakes but has found grace and truth along the way.

We received this anonymous post on the ABC Jesus Loves Me Facebook group and I think that many of you will be able to relate to these questions and concerns that this mom has. She asks... How do I handle my husband's autopilot mode? In our 10-year marriage, we rarely go on dates unless I plan them. Is it true that men stop dating their wives after the wedding? He only makes effort when our marriage is in a problem state, then ignores our issues when things are smooth. He's a good guy, he's intentional and active in our church, but he doesn't apply this to our marriage. Does knowing the Bible mean anything if it doesn't change the action? Every time I hear that a Christian woman has cheated on her husband, I want to know what pushed her and why she had an affair. I know many face this problem. I'm committed, but I'm tired.

Rachelle, when I read this question, I immediately thought of you as I know you have a lot of wisdom for this woman. Thank you for coming onto the podcast and sharing about this very hard topic. What I want to do, Rachelle, is just kind of break down this question, because I know so many are feeling these exact same concerns in their marriage.

Rachelle: 1:55

Absolutely. Thank you for having me. I've shared with you personally that if my story can help at least one woman, I'm happy to share it and share my journey and the things that I've learned along the way, so I'm grateful that this does help other women today.

Heidi Franz: 2:09

Thank you for your humility and desire to do that. Okay, so let's start with the first part of this question. This woman says that they rarely go on dates unless she plans them. Do men stop dating wives after their wedding? This whole dating thing, it's a big deal to women.

Rachelle: 2:29

It is a big deal to women, and I think that's how God made us both different. A man wins his date and then he marries her and then he wants to provide for her and that takes a back burner to the actual pursuing.  I think that if it's just a dating issue, that's something you talk about and that you can work through.

Heidi Franz: 2:49

Okay, so let's talk about dating. What does dating look like in a Christian marriage after the I-dos?

Rachelle: 2:58

I think that depends on the couple, like what were you used to doing before? What do you want to do together? You need to define “date” to really start the conversation. What is a date? Anything can be a date if it's with your spouse. You're going out, you're doing things together. It's gonna look different when you're first married versus when you have four little kids at home, versus maybe even when you have one kid at home.

Heidi Franz: 3:19

That's a great, great start Because I think as women, we have the Hollywood Hallmark Channel idea of what dating is before and after marriage. Our husbands cannot fulfill these fantasy dreams that we have to be pursued and dated in a Hollywood manner Absolutely.

Rachelle: 3:44

Yeah, the pressure on them is enormous, I think, in our culture today what the expectation is, and it's not really fair to them.

Heidi Franz: 3:54

Yeah, yeah, I would agree. I have said it before my husband is not romantic, and I would say that if he was sitting right beside me, he just isn't. That's not his personality, that's not in his makeup, and so, as a wife, I had to decide am I going to put these expectations on him to be somebody that God did not create him to be, or am I going to let go of those unrealistic expectations? That doesn't mean that I let go of the desire for us to spend time together, but I need to let go of the expectations of what that's going to look like.

Rachelle: 4:40

Absolutely, and so part of what she talks about is she's the one that plans the dates. And my thought process if he's willing to go and he has a good time with you, then plan the dates and do it. You know what I'm saying. It doesn't have to be so black and white. He has to do this. If that's what you bring to the table and you have an idea of what you want to do and he's happy to go, do it, then plan it.

Heidi Franz: 5:06

I think there's a lot of freedom in you saying that it takes the pressure off of the man and allows the freedom for the woman to go. Hey, how about if we do this, or divide and conquer and say I want to go on a date with you on Friday night, I'll get the childcare? Can you take care of what we're going to do Absolutely? Or vice versa, come up with ways to be able to be a helpmate to your husband, right? One of the things that we did when the kids were little on Saturday nights, we would bake a pan of brownies, grab two forks, start a movie and we would have brownies in a movie, and it was so much fun.  There were nights where more or less brownies were eaten, but we had fun doing that and it was very low cost. We enjoyed the time together and there wasn't the stress of what are we going to do, and we also didn't have to worry about the issue of childcare, because for a lot of families one it's very expensive, and then finding somebody that you trust to leave your children with.

Rachelle: 6:28

So, one of the things we did when I was married was you found a good, solid group of friends and you would exchange, and that seemed to work well. I feel like that's something we did not do well, unfortunately, early in our marriage was to make time for each other and make sure that we were cultivating that relationship. When we were first married in college, we had a great group of friends and we all hung out together. We had, I mean, we just had a ton of fun together. Pre-kids have as much fun as you can, but do, do, do, understand. They can tell you until the cows come home. Having children changes things and your mindset going into that is going to play a huge part in some of these issues that we're talking about today.

Heidi Franz: 7:12

OK. So, Rachelle, I want to hit on the last part of her question concerning dating. Is it true that men stop dating their wives after the wedding? True or false?

Rachelle: 7:21

I do kind of think it's true and I'm not saying that it's a good thing. If you study about the way men are wired, they are wired to pursue and win their girl, and when they have done that, that then transitions into a different mindset for them. Then it transitions more into how do I provide and take care of this woman that I have committed to? To do that, for they are wired to work, they are wired to provide and so that willing that pursuing is no longer a priority for them. Right or wrong, that is how I believe they're wired.

Heidi Franz: 8:02

What was the last movie that you watched? That was about a married couple dating. There aren't a lot of them. I mean, we spend so much time on the focus of dating pre-marriage that one. There aren't a lot of resources available that help men continue that. And then it's also we are not training wives, especially young wives, to know how to help their husbands in this role.

Rachelle: 8:39

And just speaking from personal experience, this didn't really come to a head for me or for us in our relationship. I didn't think until we had children, and that's why I was so adamant about understanding even though you can be told, and I was told, kids change things Right. But when we first got together, when we were first married, like I said in college, we had a ton of fun. We had about seven years before we had our son. We didn't go separate ways, but we lived our lives kind of parallel, if you will Like. I had my job, I had my career, my coaching, he had his. Of course we were together every night, we talked about things that were going on in our lives. But what changed for me so much when we had our children? My world is completely different, completely different, and his didn't change much. I think this is where a lot of women can get that feeling of I'm not feeling pursued and I'm not being dated because they're at home all day with the kids and they don't have an outlet and so in their world they need that outlet with their husband. It's not just a want or a wish, that is something I believe God has designed us. We need that and you can get some of that with your close friends absolutely, but there is a portion of that that can only come from your husband, and we didn't do that well.

Heidi Franz: 10:07

Let’s wrap up this idea of dating. I think we need to look at our expectations and check to make sure we have spoken those expectations to our husbands. And then are we coming alongside our husbands to help us in our marriage be able to have time together?

Rachelle: 10:32

So part of my story, Heidi, and I know that you know this, but just for listeners. My marriage did end in divorce and there are some things today that I think I could share with some of these women. You have got to voice your needs and wants and desires. Early on I was very much a peacekeeper, not a peacemaker. Peacekeepers don't want to ruffle feathers. We don't want to put anything on anyone else. We want to take care of everything, make sure everyone's taken care of. That wasn't fair to him and that wasn't fair to me, because I didn't speak my needs, I didn't ask for them. He's not a mind reader. He couldn't know what I was experiencing at home when he's gone all day. That's not fair to expect him to know what I need and what out of our relationship. And so, for women listening, I would say talk about this continually. Sounds kind of cliche, but are you having weekly meetings with your husband about how things are going? I hate the idea of scheduling time with your husband, but is there a check-in point in the week where? How are we, how are you, how are the kids or whoever's in your family at the time and what you need to talk about? But I think that would have been one thing that would have been huge for our marriage. So, I just want to encourage women if that's not a practice in your relationship, make it one and start voicing what you need, so that you don't put the pressure on him to try and read your mind.

Heidi Franz: 11:58

As a family, we sometimes watch some Hallmark movies, and one of the things that we talk about in joking is that these guys who are pursuing these women and they have all the wonderful date ideas notice that they rarely ever go to work. Right, you know? That's so true. We expect our husbands, who have full-time jobs, to be able to have all these fun ideas, great ideas, exciting ideas, wooing ideas, and yet he's working 40 plus hours. And when he's at work, he thinks about work, and yet we want them to be continually thinking about us. Or do we think we want them to? Because we do want them to have jobs. Really we want them to be focusing on work. Again, I think it comes back to that honest communication and realistic expectations.

Rachelle: 13:00

The other thing I want to say here, Heidi, is because we've talked a lot about not putting the pressure on the husband. However, it is different if you have voiced your concerns on a weekly basis, and I need this and I would like this, and we're going to get into this in a little bit but I think if you find yourself in a position where you say, hey look, I have tried this, because I did feel like this at one point in my marriage, I have tried, I have tried, I have tried, I have tried. What do you do then?

Heidi Franz: 13:31

Which is the perfect segue into the second part of this anonymous question that we received. She said he's a good guy, he's intentional and active in our church, but he doesn't apply this to our marriage. I mean, Rachelle, that's exactly what you have just talked about. You have a good guy, but yet it feels like it's just not working. You're talking, you're being honest. What is a wife to do in that circumstance?

Rachelle: 13:59

If this is an issue, then you have to bring an intervention. And I'll tell you from my personal experience, it was like we could never get on the same page. I would voice my concern and want an intervention, and he was like no, we're good. Or vice versa, he would say, hey, let's, and I would be like, no, I'm, I'm good. And we were both incredibly sinful people. We all are and one of the statements I learned in counseling that I have shared with a lot of people that I think is really impactful as you're walking through marriage sin causes death. So one of the things I didn't do well at different times in our marriage was when he voiced his concerns, I would, I would shut them down and I I know that that sin on my part was causing death in him and vice versa. There were times when I would come to him and say, hey, here's what I think we need, and he would shut it down and our sin just kept compounding, if you will. It's like once you treat someone poorly, then the next time you go to the next level of poorly. You know what I mean. And so ours got pretty bad. Just to not sugarcoat it, ours got really bad. And I looking back and through counseling and hours in prayer, it takes two hearts to come to the table and want to work on this, and so, women, we have to do our part Bye. If your husband won't come to the table, you can't control him, and so you're gonna have to choose what you focus on at that point.

Heidi Franz: 15:34

Right, oh, I appreciate your honesty in that. But how true that our pride can get in the way and shut down any steps our husbands are trying to take, and vice versa.

Rachelle: 15:50

Absolutely, because you hear the saying and I don't like the saying, Heidi, because it is a cultural saying. But, like you, really only can take so much you know what I mean Before you do shut down. You just don't wanna put yourself out there to get hurt anymore and that's a very normal thing. But we have to fight against that, especially for this person that we stood at the altar with and said I promise to do these things for you.

Heidi Franz: 16:15

So that leads to the next part of her honest post Christian women cheating on their husbands. What pushes them to this level? Why do they have affairs?

Rachelle: 16:28

The reason I don't think that this post was strictly a dating issue is because of this comment right here. Having walked through the journey that I've walked through, this is a cry for help, and she is wanting her husband to notice her, her husband to help her. It could be a case of she needs a teammate, she needs a best friend, and that person is supposed to be her husband. She asked about this cheating, especially in Christian circles. I would say it is time for a major intervention. She has got to get into some good biblical counseling. The grass looks greener on the other side, and it's not. It's not. You read those posts. Being married is hard, being divorced is hard. I will tell you, having lived on both sides of it they're both hard. Which hard do you want to work through?

Heidi Franz: 17:22

Oh, I love that. Which hard do you want to work through? If I have a friend who comes up to me and says I am even thinking about cheating on my husband, what do I do? How do I help this friend?

Rachelle: 17:37

I'm very proud of this woman. If you will Like, she even put this out there. If this is where she's at and she is asking the question, that's why I firmly believe she wants help at this point and, as a woman who's walked through this, get the help before it gets too late, becomes too late as her support system. I think there will be other signs along the way about how unhappy she is in the marriage. This is something that I voiced regularly. I mean talking to family and support system. After we were going through our divorce, they said I remember you talking about and they didn't know, Heidi, nobody knows. Nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors. And my husband wasn't a bad person, not a bad person at all. We got incredibly sinful to each other. We didn't know, we didn't get the resources. I honestly don't know what to pinpoint it to, other than that sin caused death in us and we didn't know how to recover it.

Heidi Franz: 18:47

I think there's a stigma on Christian marriages. Well, of course you're having trouble. All marriage is hard. Pray about it, be strong, keep going, fight through it, and we don't really take each other seriously. When somebody would walk up to us and say, man, I'm struggling Absolutely. And when somebody waves that flag, as women we need to be a safe place, not of judgment, not of assuming, but say I am here, how can I love you and support you?

Rachelle: 19:25

Yeah. So one of the most hurtful things it's kind of an, maybe an oxymoron for those listening One of the most hurtful things you can say is you need to pray about it more or you need to trust the Lord more, because if this woman is a believer, she has poured her heart out to the Lord continually and nothing is changing and that's why it is at the point that she is sharing her story with you. So, if someone trusts you enough to share their story with you, for one, praise God that you have such a friendship, because she would not pour her heart out to you. And two, that's why I encouraged women earlier in the podcast. You have to voice these early because I will tell you. By the time I got to the point of voicing some things, the counselor explained it to me. It was like things had gotten so bad, like ripple waves, like if you take a wave and it goes out that it was almost too far and too bad to try and bring back. And that's why I think in any situation in life really, but especially in your marriage and what we're talking about today, the earlier you communicate this, the earlier you have things in place that allow for that open communication, the easier it is to prevent or to get on top of. Don't be the peacekeeper. You don't need to be the peacekeeper. You can be a peacemaker. You can have hard conversations, but it's not your job to hide your feelings, to hide your needs, to hide your wants and desires from the person that's your biggest fan and your biggest supporter.

Heidi Franz: 20:58

So, what would you say? Rachelle would be the one thing that you go. If this is occurring, seek biblical counsel, don't wait.

Rachelle: 21:09

If you feel like your husband is not receptive, if you feel like you have tried everything you can try, you don't know what else to do. You need to be in counseling. You need to be able to share your story with someone and get someone that has the wisdom to say to you you're wrong. I had counselors tell me that you're wrong. That's not fair to him. Or to say, hey, will he come in here with you, Will he sit down with us? Will he go to counseling on his own and work on this Again. If he won't come to the table, the only thing you can focus on is you. If he'll come to the table, then you can start repairing the relationship. If you're in the counseling, then they can help you walk through what to do. Then, if he's not going to come to the table, you need good biblical counseling. This is a resource that I wish I had found 10 years earlier in my marriage. It's called Marriage Recovery Center and if anyone out there is struggling today, I would encourage them just to go to the website and check it out. Biblical based. They understand a woman's perspective, they understand a man's perspective and they're very good at bringing both people to the table. We'll put a link to that in the show notes.

Heidi Franz: 22:30

Another one that I would suggest is Re|Engage. Our church has that program. As you're talking to a counselor, somebody who's going to love you enough to say to you, "You own this and this you don't." Because, there are always two sides. There are always things that I bring to my marriage that is not loving. There are always things that are going to happen to me that my husband was not loving, and so we have to be able to accept what we own, and that's our responsibility. I am not responsible for my husband, he's not responsible for me and to have a counselor be able to show you both sides of that.

Rachelle: 23:20

Absolutely, and one of the things that was really freeing for me as a peacekeeper was for one of the counselors to say to me you have got to stand up for yourself, you have got to voice your needs and wants and desires. That's not fair and the home I grew up in you just didn't do that. As we evolve and grow, those are things that we learn. I wish I had known that when I first got married. I wish I had so many of these things in place. That's not the story God has written for my life, and if this helps someone else, praise God.

Heidi Franz: 23:51

I think it's easy in our marriage to fixate on one aspect he won't lead, he won't date, he won't help around the house. We take everything that happens in our marriage and throw it into one massive bonfire when, when we back up, we realize that there were a lot of little fires going on in our marriage. A wise biblical counselor can help us start focusing on the individual fires instead of what we think is one huge fire. Because if our husband doesn't lead or our husband doesn't date us, or our husband doesn't help around the house, just having them do the one thing isn't actually going to fix the marriage. The marriage is so much bigger than he just won't pick up his close. He just won't take me on a date. So we have to understand what a marriage truly is and step back from the fairy tale we're wanting to live.

Rachelle: 25:06

I'm a sports person and my view of marriage would take a different approach in my mind, more of a team approach. I don't think I was a great teammate. I think I liked to control a lot of things, so I wanted to be the captain, absolutely, but I didn't want to be the player on the bench. I think in a marriage, you have to work together as a team and we did not do that well. And I think if we can take, like you said, take away all the preconceived notions about what marriage is really going to be, it's really two people working together to serve the Lord and to bring honor and glory to him. And honestly, Heidi, who cares about the rest of it? I look back and think, why did I care so much? I wanted a clean house, great, and he didn't help me. Okay, fine, and I wasn't that picky all the time, but I had particular ways. I wanted things done, and to me now it seems so silly. On the other side of it, I want for a marriage to be two people working together Like, hey, what do you need from me today? What can I do for you? What do we need to do for the kids? How are we going to conquer this thing together to bring honor and glory to the Lord.

Heidi Franz: 26:19

And I think that's what God's desire is, as helpmates coming together for one purpose. And if there's one word that can get women, especially in the 21st century, all uptight, it's the word “submit.” And they immediately start bowing up asking, “How dare you tell me to submit?” But when we truly look at what God created, submitting is a beautiful, beautiful opportunity for us to come under our husband's leadership and walk alongside of him. It's like he's holding the umbrella and I'm getting to be underneath that umbrella. But what do we do when we're continually saying well, my husband won't hold the umbrella. And I think it's twofold. Sometimes it's because we're fighting for the umbrella hold (Genesis 3, The Curse). And we're fighting for the hold, we're fighting to take over, because we think we know better, but yet we want him to lead. And we're mad that he's not leading, but yet we're fighting for control because he's not leading the way we want him to. And it's just this continual snowball effect, and because of pride on both sides, because of apathy on both sides, we end up with a very broken relationship in need of a savior, absolutely.

Rachelle: 28:02

You want to be completely honest, Heidi. I lost complete hope for my marriage and that's a really hard place to be. You want to believe that your marriage can be restored, that it can be redeemed. I'm praying for any women out there today that might feel hopeless in their marriage. Get to your Christian counselor, talk it through, don't let it snowball.

Heidi Franz: 28:25

God can redeem, God does redeem, but he will not everyone, and I don't understand that, I think, your honesty right now, Rachelle, has probably put a lot of women into tears because they have been there, they are there, or they know people who are going through the pain of a marriage that is broken. This writer of the anonymous post says I'm committed, but I'm tired.

Rachelle: 29:03

I could have written this post-Hidy I remember being there, I remember being. I love this man. I know he's a good man, but I can't keep doing it this way.

Heidi Franz: 29:15

This is a hard topic. I know this is a very hard topic because we all know in the bottom of our soul that God desires our marriage to stay together. We know that when we stand in front of our spouse on our wedding day, we are making a commitment to our spouse, but we're also making a commitment to God, and we know that. But the reality is we are all sinners, and that sin makes marriage very hard. I also believe that Christians have an extra target on their back because Satan knows that if he can destroy a Christian marriage, he is going to affect a lot of people.

Rachelle: 30:09

Well, he can go back and say, hey, lord, look, this is supposed to be a picture of you and your church and it's not there. And he loves that. He absolutely loves that. One of the things that you just said that I wanted to piggyback on is of course God wants our marriage to stay together. Of course he wants that, but he loves the woman and the man in the marriage. In my opinion, based on my number of hours of counseling, he loves you more than the marriage. I think we have made an idol of marriage somewhat and we forget to take care of the people in it. Of course, we want to have the goal for the marriage to stay together, absolutely, but we have got to take care of the two people in the marriage. You can't just say you got to stick it out, you got to stick it out. Of course we want to stick it out, of course we want to stay together in the marriage, but we've got to come alongside both of the people and love them and that they're not just hearing you have to stay miserable, you have to stay miserable, I was miserable, I was hopeless, and we have to do something better in the church to love people well, through this.

Heidi Franz: 31:28

And I think that's why this podcast is so incredibly important, because what we're saying to these women and husbands who are listening as well before you get to that point, get some help, absolutely. Before you get to that point, talk to a wise biblical counselor who can help you see what you own and for you to go honestly to the throne of God and say, Lord, help me, drop the pride.

Rachelle: 32:08

and for you to love your husband well before it ever gets to this point where you are miserable and without hope and for me, that dropping of pride centered around being in a family where you weren't supposed to have marriage trouble. It centered around being in a community where you just don't have marriage problems. We were the picture of an all-American family and that's really hard and humbling to come out and say we're not waiting to help.

Heidi Franz: 32:44

Yeah, this is an example of making beauty for mashes, something that has been so incredibly painful for you, Rachelle, and you have come humbly to share your story, to encourage women to be honest with their spouses, to get the help that they need, before it has spiraled, to see that God has not forgotten you. You are seen, you are heard. God's not done with you.

Rachelle: 33:21

I love that and I would pray that for every woman that's listening. God is continually writing our stories and we continually have hope because of Him. Thank you, Thank you.

Announcer: 33:35

We want to thank you for listening to the Parenting to Impress podcast. Be sure to visit ABCJesusLovesMe.com and check out the show notes for more information on topics shared in this episode. Please subscribe and share with your friends.