The Inner Game of Change
Welcome to The Inner Game of Change podcast, where we dive deep into the complexities of managing organisational change. Tailored for leaders, change practitioners, and anyone driving transformation, our episodes explore key topics like leadership, communication, change capability, and process design. Expert guests share practical strategies and insights to help you navigate and lead successful change initiatives. Listen in to learn fresh ideas and perspectives from a variety of industries, and gain the tools and knowledge you need to lead transformation with confidence. Explore our episodes at www.theinnergameofchange.com.au, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Youtube or anywhere you listen to your podcasts.
The Inner Game of Change
E96 - The People Led Transformative Change - Podcast With Soraya Espejo
Welcome to The Inner Game of Change, where we explore the invisible forces that shape the way we lead, live, and learn, because real change, as you and I know, always starts on the inside.
In this episode of The Inner Game of Change, I speak with Soraya Espejo — a global transformation strategist, MIT-certified AI and Future of Work advisor, and Founder of Changics. Soraya has worked across more than fifty countries helping leaders and organisations prepare for what’s next.
Our conversation moves through some of the most pressing questions facing leaders today. How do we lead in a world reshaped by artificial intelligence? What skills matter most in times of uncertainty? And how can we build cultures that adapt rather than resist?
Soraya walks us through two powerful frameworks — MIT’s Four-Cap Leadership Model and the 5M Transformation Model — both designed to help leaders strengthen credibility, readiness, and execution.
We also explore what happens when change meets complexity, especially during mergers and acquisitions, where culture, communication, and trust can make or break success.
This episode is a thoughtful guide for anyone navigating transformation — from CEOs and change professionals to those simply curious about the future of leadership.
About Soraya
What defines me
My experience has shaped me into a strategic architect of transformation — not just a witness to change, but a designer of it
🔹 Executive Advisor to C-Suite & Senior Leadership Teams
🔹 AI & Future of Work Strategist (certified by MIT)
🔹 I design and co-create Future-Ready Organizations
🔹 +25 years of experience across 50+ countries and multiple industries
🔹 Strategic partner to CEOs in unlocking culture-driven growth leadership
🔹 Executive Coach for C-Suite & Senior Leadership
🔹 Transformation leader in M&A, culture, and people strategy
🔹 Private Equity & M&A Expertise: from pitch to sale
🔹 Architect of leadership and performance models that scale
🔹 Passionate about aligning Purpose, People & Performance
🔹 Founder of Changics, a strategic boutique for human-led transformation
Contact
LinknedIn
linkedin.com/in/sorayaespejogonzalez
Ali Juma
@The Inner Game of Change podcast
Follow me on LinkedIn
Welcome to the Inner Game of Change, where we explore the invisible forces that shape the way we lead, live and learn because real change, as you and I know, always tell us on the inside. I'm your host, Ali Jumma. In this episode of the Inner Game of Change, I speak with Soraya Spejo, a global transformation strategist, a mighty certified AI and future of work advisor, and founder of Changex. Soraya has worked across more than 50 countries helping leaders and organizations prepare for what is next. Our conversation moves through some of the most pressing questions facing leaders today. How do we lead in a world reshaped by artificial intelligence? What skills matter most in times of uncertainty? And how can we build cultures that adapt rather than resist? Sorella walks us through two powerful frameworks: MIT's 4CAP leadership model and the 5M transformation model, both designed to help leaders strengthen credibility, readiness, and execution. We also explore what happens when change meets complexity, especially during mergers and acquisitions, where culture, communication, and trust can make or break success. This episode is a thoughtful guide for anyone navigating transformation from CEOs and change professionals to those simply curious about the future of leadership. I am grateful to have Soraya chatting with me today. Soraya, thank you so much for joining me in the Inner Game of Change podcast. I am eternally grateful for your time today. Thanks to you, Ali.
SPEAKER_02:It's a pleasure to be here with you.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. Soraya, today we're gonna cover a number of topics around leadership, transformation, future edit organization. That's your field, that's your bread and butter, and anything between. So uh this conversation can go in different directions. The most important thing for us is uh is that hopefully the listeners will walk away with a couple of practical things that they can think about in their workplace. Uh you work with a lot of leadership teams around the globe, and predominantly you work around preparing these teams for a future radio organization. In your opinion, what are some of the challenges for these team teams or leadership teams that they need to think about or actually they're going through now?
SPEAKER_02:So in today's, I think in today's landscape, right? Um that we're doing like uh we are we are in a I think we are in a specific uh landscape where we are having like three main pillars. One is the world is changing, uh so we have all geopolitical issues, AI disruption. The other thing is that um the work, the business is changing as well. So we due to what is happening around the organizational the organization's needs need to change. So it's also I I was reading the other day uh Price Waterhouse um research, you know, that uh like 5,000 CEOs, they were saying that if you don't reinvent yourself, you will die. So you need to change your organization. And there is a third point that is people is changing. So we have uh absolutely um different generations coming here. Uh so the future of work is another key theme that we need to tackle. I would say those three key pillars is the ones that we need to have in mind today, in today's landscape, to face change, leadership, and transformation.
SPEAKER_01:Talk to me more about the change that people would need to go through and think about. What is triggering those changes that we need to respond to? Uh technology is one, but is society's expectations changing as well? And is that why we want to do it? Say what do you mean? So if I am a worker in an organization and then I need to think about my way of working, my capabilities, and my skills, and then I need to get myself ready and upgrade my capabilities. Why do I need to do that? Is it because business expectations are changing as a result of societal changes?
SPEAKER_02:Okay, I think that um as a leader, um, and this is what I see also in MIT, right? You need to have a different skills today in order to be able to cope with this constantly changing world. So the previous ones that you used to have, they are not working today. So you need to you need to adapt yourself and master a different new skills. And it's due to the previous the previous three pillars, I told at the be at the very beginning. So for example, uh you need to adapt AI in the way in the in your uh daily in there in the in your daily task. You need to be um I would say uh a transformer. So you need to be this mindset to be a transformer. You need to be an innovator, you need to be a communicator, so you need to be sensible about what is happening abroad, you know, to bring insight. So there is many different skills set uh to cope with uh to cope with the uh to the environment. So absolutely, and there is a great uh framework that I'm working with that is the four caps uh leadership coming from MIT that teach um and help leaders to face uh the new landscape.
SPEAKER_01:Talk to me about that framework and who it is for. Is it for leaders and people or is it for both?
SPEAKER_02:It is it is for leaders, exactly. It's is to develop the leaders. So this for CAP model is about four pillars. The first one is visioning. The leaders they need to frame the vision, they need to create the urgency for change, and also they need to build a shared vision. The second pillar is relating. That's what does it mean? They need to support and coach, they need to influence and negotiate, and they need to connect with the outside, and this is important as well because if you don't connect outside, you don't know what is happening, and you cannot bring input inside, and they need to inquire. The third big one, the third big pillar is sense making. You need to have an open mind, you need to create meaning in uncertainty, you need to learn from others, and you need to experiment. So there's a new way of doing things. And the fourth one is inventing. What does it mean is executing, creating a learning culture, making tough decisions and managing change. And in the center of those four pillars, and this is quite important, is building credibility. Because if you don't build the credibility when you are doing uh change, when you are you know in those transformation and this is uh on this um this today landscape, nothing is gonna work. So you need to be you need to be this uh type of leader that you you you be that type of leader that lead by example and also that create that you know safe space within the organization to help other leaders to develop.
SPEAKER_01:We are living in in an age now where AI is all over the place. There's a lot of hype around it. Yep. That is a challenge to leadership to make sense of um because it's a new uh we can only see a first order, perhaps, you know, impact, but there's gonna be a second order and a third order. Do you see this framework that you just shared? Can that help the leaders when they try to make sense of how AI is going to impact their organizations?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, definitely. Because uh I think that this this leadership model is gonna help on um the first thing is um sense making, right? One of the pillars helps you to have the right mindset to explore, learn from others, experiment. And this is this is this is key for bringing innovation to the organization and have uh and and and work with AI, I think, right? Because many organizations they need to they still don't don't know how to cope with AI. This is one to me. The second one is um the visioning, is creating also the urgency for change. I think that we are already late. Many organizations are already late. So this skill is key as well for uh executives now, meaning execution is another key skill that is needed in AI as well today. And making tough decisions. Why? Because when you put AI, you know, whatever is the uh decision, so you need to take make you take tough decisions. For example, if you are if you are gonna do any uh implementation in back office, sometimes that those decisions mean that you need to reduce people. And that is happening a lot. I've seen that with many projects, you need to redesign your organization, you need to upskill, reskill. It has a lot of implications. You need you need to also manage the fear of your employees. So there are a lot of things in this change management process of implementing AI within the organizations.
SPEAKER_01:Sorry, I want to share a thought with you and and please give me feedback or critique me on it. And and whilst you're talking, uh, I was just thinking about it. Is AI driving us towards, well, first of all, is it challenging for us because there are a lot of unknowns around artificial intelligence? And does that do you think we need a new type of leader to lead through this uncertain time? There's a balance between excitement and innovation and how I can make that happen for my organization. And in my head, I'm thinking if I am a leader with leading a larger organization or even a smaller organization, does that mean that I need now to be fully immersed in the world of artificial intelligence so I can translate that vision to my people?
SPEAKER_02:Well, um I was when we started podcast, um I wanted to start with a question. And I'm gonna I'm gonna do it now. Yeah, go ahead. No, no, because it's it's it's related with your with your question. And it that was my uh that was my question from the beginning. What if I told you that becoming an extraordinary leader is not about stacking on learning skills. It's also about transforming who you are as a leader and also how you see the world. So what I'm trying to say here is and relating about what you say is not all the leaders are able, from my point of view, big transformations and are ready to embrance AI. That's number one. Second one is not all the organizations are ready because they don't even understand what AI means. Um third one is when I did my uh MIT course about AI implications for business. That was one of the more powerful I did in Boston. Um I understand that when you need to put a strategy for in a in the business to decide what you are gonna, you know, what you are gonna choose and the why. And the implications, you need to be you need to gather all your key leaders. You need to understand what is the strategy, why you are gonna put based on five uh well, we use uh porter, you know, the five the strategy of Porter. Decide you're gonna do based on differentiation of your product, service, uh competitor. So you decide on what you have a look about the different uh AIs. So it's uh you're gonna do machine learning, you're gonna do uh neuro neurolinguistic, your robotics in your warehouses, automatization. So, and based on that, you will decide the budget investment, and then you will see if your organization is ready, and then you will understand who is gonna lead that one, and then you need to do the implementation phase, and for that one, you need to use specific frameworks.
SPEAKER_01:Am I getting this message right? That and by the way, I'll probably support that message that not all leaders in their current positions are positioned well to lead transformative change.
SPEAKER_02:I believe this. I believe that, and but that's my point. I think I and I don't think everyone is re is ready to do that. But that's why also we have people that have the capabilities and the skills like you, me, can support from outside as well, to to help them. So they and that's the reality. Or we need to put someone inside the organization who is the one who orchestrates the whole the whole process. Um I was thinking that last week I was here in Dubai and I was in the AI uh uh AI festival, AI Submit Festival, and um I can tell you during the two days, um it was more technical, but it was super interesting. It was CEO, Microsoft, uh the CEO from Amazon, so key leaders. And it was it was uh a key message here is if you implement AI, and Microsoft was saying that if you implement AI, but you don't have the key people to implement that one, it will fail. And Microsoft gave an example about fail about this one because they were not taking in account the human side. So if the CIOs are doing that one by themselves and not taking account the change, you know, management side, it's not gonna work. And it was repeating and repeating during the whole two days.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And I've seen this message in many conferences that I've attended. I've also seen it in practical terms where I am currently involved with the client. And I think the idea that we need to focus on the people side of change is not a new idea. I think it's only because AI is not a silo impact. AI is actually an impact across an all organization and society as well. That's why we need to think seriously now about um technology is one thing, but then how you embed it and help people adopt it and feel safe at the same time is really the art of leadership.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, exactly. I think that um the safety, the safety part is quite important um today in today, you know, today's. Uh, and to me, to be honest, um to me, there is um there is a great framework that I like when when there is an implementation. I learned that framework that I've been working with during big implementations, um, that is the 5M transformation model, also coming from MIT. And that model, uh, just briefly, uh, is about the five M's. This uh let me brief you what does it mean in every M. Okay? So the first M is meaning. Meaning is about ensuring transformation narrative. And what does it mean? That is clear and is compelling to all levels. So as you can, and as you know, because you are also a change expert, uh, if you don't involve all levels in the organization, it's not gonna work. And that's why 70% of the change, uh the change of the transformations fail. The second one is mindset, so you need to build the cultural readiness before any technical implementation. The third one is mobilization, so you need to provide the required capabilities and resources for the transformation, because sometimes you think that you have everything, but you don't have the capability and the capacity to do the implementation. The fourth one is measurement, so you need to, of course, track leading and lagging, right? Indication, indicators, and the five one is mechanism of renewal. So you need to create that sustainable momentum on the implementation. And these five uh the nice about this five M transformation model is quite agile. You can keep implementing, you know, in cycles inside the organization.
SPEAKER_01:Do you mind going uh a little bit deeper? How how would a leader build this the second M, which I think is mindset? How do you go about building that mindset within the organization? And I I really love the that the framework you just actually outlined.
SPEAKER_02:Uh that one I would say that you build um through uh five things. The one is purpose, so you need to have a clear purpose about what you are gonna do. What is the purpose of this change? What does it mean? Why are we doing that one? The second one is what does it mean in terms of culture and values, right? For the organizations. That means that um for the culture, uh there are some non-negotiables, you know, when you are in a transformation, in a transformation, you need to clear articulate like three, five core values that is not going to change never ever during the transformation. Um you need to have so it's purpose, the strategy, the values, the vision, the vision of your company has to be clear, and that has to be uh communicated to everyone. Then you need to and then you need to you need to prepare your leaders, your team, who is going to be your team for this transformation. And and what I say uh capacity, you know, cap the change, uh readiness, capacity, capability, and then they leave I mean you take deliberate actions to evolve culture. Yeah, and that's the things that that to me it worked. I mean, they will work.
SPEAKER_01:And these are the things that will help create this level of mindset. So really create you know, uh building that mindset first of all is not an easy, straightforward thing, no, but at the same time, it's part of the readiness uh for a major transformation. I want to pick your brain on you worked with a lot of organizations around private equity, mergers and acquisitions and uh other projects. Talk to me about your experience when you see change management in action. What are some of the practices that you thought they're working really well, and what are some of the practices that you thought they are kind of ordinary experiences?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, if you're talking about my experience, well, in the mask, my previous job uh in in private private equity, we I think that the major transformation was uh through merchant acquisitions. That's one of the is that the one you want me to explain?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, sure, yeah. Uh what what does m how does change management sit within a merger and acquisition? Because any MAs include a lot of uncertainty in them, and therefore the people side of things would need to be looked after.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. And this is also before going to that one, is that uh when you do transformations, also you realize that every transformation depends also, and you will see that is unique. And what I'm saying that because it depends also on what is happening at that moment, right? So for example, um this transformation was unique because we ran 15 acquisitions during COVID, and we ran that one. You you you mentioned me before when we were discussing before um that COVID was tough in Australia. So COVID was really tough in Milan because it started there in Lombardia. So it was really, really, really, really tough in terms of um carfew and many things. So when you are in a private equity, um the way I think it works different. Um so you have you have more you have a more structured way of dealing with you know with these transformations. You have a team to deal with the acquisitions, and you have also you have also a way of doing those first adquisitions and transformations. What I would say is that the the key things we use the 100-day cascade model. That's something that normally you do. So the first thing is in the 31st days you do the integration and the Queen Wings, in the 30, 60 days you do the process alignment, and in the 60, 100 days you do the culture and way of working. That's how normally you know you put on that one. Then there is also the value creation imperative as well, no, when we need to create value drivers for the company. There is also a key thing when you do those types of transformations that is to have a governance inside the company when you have the uh representative of different stakeholders. That's a key thing to have, and you need to define the roles of who does what, because otherwise it's gonna fail, and those ones are key things. You can do it in a more agile way, or you can do depends on the organization, or more uh right races or races specific, so roles and responsibility of each one. This is like key. And then this you need to sort it out the transversal processes that are going to uh go through the whole transformation that is communications is communication periodically. This is key. It's gonna be the transformation from one culture to another, and this is the 60, what I told you, the 600 days, right? So you need you need to pass from one culture to another. This is really difficult. Not every not every acquisition is the same. You need to understand when we are gonna start doing the things. So where we are gonna apply the leadership model, when we are gonna apply you know the new values of the company, when we are gonna do um the performance, when we are gonna start putting in place the different policies from from the company to the other companies.
SPEAKER_01:And so, yeah, do you think we need again in the times of mergers and acquisitions, that the type of leadership would need to be considered because there are a lot of variables, there's almost like a guaranteed clash of culture between one entity and another.
SPEAKER_02:Definitely, yes. Uh I leave that one. Um, so when we buying when we were buying companies, right, you realize there are companies more easy to integrate, and really and there are companies more difficult. And that depends on size, culture, how well the per the the companies were performed as well. And also it happens to me on the other side when we sold the company to UPS and we were integrated by UPS. What I can tell you from my learning is that I mean it has to be uh a specific group uh people who knows how to do that, otherwise it failed. We really suffer in the integration because um they were not people who knew how to integrate. Um so they it was a team of people trying to integrate, but not not anyone that knew how to. To integrate a company and having this, yeah. Maybe from process, yes, but not as a whole, right? And this is and this is when it failed, and I understand the why. And then you have a leak of talent that people, because there is no communication, then doesn't, you know, there is no uh involvement, and then that no one no one understands anything. Um, and then people start leaving, leaving, living, living, living the company.
SPEAKER_01:And it always goes back to how well you manage the change management, you manage the actual change and the people side of things, because you can be an expert in the process, but then dealing with the people side is actually the variable that is so complex, um, and it needs a lot of patience and it needs a lot of anticipation of impacts and a lot of engagement, as you mentioned, the communication, the type of communication, and how often you communicate, all of these things. And I often observe that people give the minimum service to the people side, and that's why we get into trouble and get into friction and resistance and a mind leak and or attrition, people will start leaving. Uh, your best people will actually start leaving. Why would they stay with an organization that has not thought about their needs in the new world? I I wanna shift gear and I wanna ask you about when it's all done and dusted, how do you measure the success of a transformative initiative?
SPEAKER_02:Okay, well, there is several, I think there is several um KPIs or KRs that you can put in place. You can you can use or the ones I use in several transformations are, for example, the there are stakeholder engagement metrics, and those ones can be employee engagement score or partner supplier satisfaction metrics. Those are this is one. The other one I use is the cultural transformation indicators that can be measured as uh by the employee net promoter score, and also doing some cultural audit scores again against a target that you put. Then also I use capability building metrics, uh, that means skill assessment scores against transformation requirements, um, and also leadership behavior changes, so 360 degree feedback 360 degree feedback, also leading indicators, that means change writtenness scores, or employee sentiment analysis. And the last one I used to use is the transformation measure matrix that creates visibility across the organization during the process.
SPEAKER_01:I like that. In your work, and from my research that I've done on your work, you seem to promote what I what you call human-led transformation.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Would you mind actually defining what that is according to you?
SPEAKER_02:So it's uh human-led transformation is to put in the center people when you're doing transformation, right? Uh because at the end this is about people. When you do any any type of transformation, and you either you put new systems, either you put new AI, other you do acquisitions, whatever, you know, whatever it is, the thing you m you make, uh and you don't involve people, or you don't train leaders, or you don't get the buy-in, uh, it's gonna fail. But the reason is super simple is because the people are the drivers of those initiatives. Yeah. So if they are not involved, it's not gonna you you're not gonna get results. I don't think it's rock science.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it is no rocket science, you were right, and uh but it is difficult because when we deal with when we deal with people, we are different, we are diverse in the way we look at the change. There'll be lots of people that will like a new change, but depends on what your values are, and there are lots of people that would like the status quo to continue. I mean you look at it uh in every election in the world, there's always gonna be people that want the current government to stay, and there are people that want the current government to change. And this is why I think I think whilst we all recognize that the human would need to be at the center of our thinking when we talk about transformation, it is not a straightforward exercise because and and as a human, you know, my ideas today may change tomorrow. And that's what would make it really comp uh complex for organization. And that's why that I think rightly so you mentioned a couple of times, the role of leadership is such an important piece in here that focus focusing on technology is one thing, but the technology should be designed to serve the people and the customer.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. And the business, right? So yeah, is business, yeah. And and but let me also add something that you mentioned. Are you you're right about that it's not I mean, uh people is difficult. I mean, it's difficult because I mean at the end, the three key obstacles for transformation are strategy misalignment, a week of leadership commitment, and resistance to change. And that's coming also from people.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But I think that what it works pretty well uh in my experience is when we put in place change or acquisitions, for example, I mean, is to pick up first the ones who are the ambassadors for those changes. And then from those, I mean we start from those ones, and those ones will be helping us, you know, those ones are the ones who are helping us to promote those ones. For example, I with uh and just a small example. We took one, we we bought a company, and that was really difficult one, and then I say, well, what can I do? And then I put my one of my best performers in within my team, and I send to another country. And this is one of my best decisions I've never made. I was losing one, but he created such a good environment within the company that the I think that the integration worked pretty well. So yeah, that's an example, you know. I'm just sharing an example of a good practice that was not super complex, but uh, you know, um just one and that work in that case, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'm certainly creating early adopters and then utilize them as a network of influence. Um is such an important piece. Um, even that by itself, um, to be part of an influential ambassador group or champion group or SME, whatever you want to call them, even the selection of these people is important because sometimes you are good at your job, but you're not good at influencing. Um and uh so that's why I always say again, easier said than done to create a network of influencers. Even that would need to be would need to have a lot of thinking put into it about who the type of people you would like to promote and offer support and influence. But the whole idea is that the network nudge is a strategy when if I'm gonna see it's a social nudge. If I see others using something, I feel slightly safer to actually start using it. So that's the whole idea of the social nudge.
SPEAKER_02:And it's it's better when they see that one from their peers and colleagues that come in from you know the C-street level. So the adoption goes quicker as well.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, that's the whole idea is that that that peer peer influence. And uh yeah, if I see my friend using it or my colleague in the same team using it, um then there's more likelihood that I will be open to adopting it. Uh I am aware of time, and then we are coming close to the podcast. I'm really enjoying um this conversation, Sarah. I am in the business of change and communication and engagement. As a professional in the field, what would be your advice to people like me and the network around when it comes to transformative change, let's just say artificial intelligence. What would be your advice to us when we work with our clients?
SPEAKER_02:Well, the same as I do because I'm doing the same, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I think the first thing is to understand the why. When I go to my customers is understanding the what they want to do and why they want to do it. Yes. That's it. That's the two main things I'm trying to uh I'm trying to do. Um because if not, the the project is not gonna make, you know, that's doesn't make sense. The third thing is um help them also to help them to co-create, you know, the journey. Um be part of be part of this co-creation with them and involve many stakeholders, you know, in that co-creation at different levels. That's how I think it is key. I need I think and empowering teams as well within the organization during this co-creation, and and pushing as well this mindset and trying to explain them that today to reinvent because this is the only way to survive the world that I we are living, because the velocity that is happening uh is and is gonna be is so huge that we are not even we are not we are not even able to digest all the information that is in you know on the table.
SPEAKER_01:I often think now, uh Soraya, and this is just my thinking, is that in times of uncertainty leaders would better work on getting their people ready and position them to be ready for a change. This is better than to understand the change, then apply it to their people. That is probably one of the best ways to help people be ready. Uh so positioning is better than predicting where the change is gonna go. That's in my opinion, anyway. So I work on the mindset and the skills and the capabilities, and therefore we will become change agnostic. What I'm noticing now in the in the age of AI, lots of leaders are just wondering what we need to do. And my advice to them always is that you can only control what you can see now, which is can I educate my people about what this technology is? Because that's actually available. And and creating that literacy for your people around the change is better than trying to understand the details of the change.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. I agree with you, but this if we be if we come back to the leadership model we were discussing before, I think the leaders they need to be also aware about what is happening outs happening outside, you know? Because otherwise they cannot anticipate to you know other needs. I know leaders they have a lot of pressure today because it's not an easy it's not easy to be a leader in today's landscape. But it's not easy at all. Uh but they need to be ready for that one. So there's they need to be delegating things and they need to be focusing on different things, you know, and this is more strategically mindset.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. I think they need to be so there's a lot of hype, for example, about artificial intelligence. Yeah. Um I consider that there's a lot of noise, but there's also a lot of signal. And therefore the leaders would need to understand what is a noise and what is a signal. And they only can actually look at the signals and understand how they're going to influence their businesses. Um so I agree with you. A leadership job nowadays is very complex. And uh uh although we criticize the leaders all the time, but certainly their jobs are not really straightforward uh to lead their organizations. And this environmental scan that they need to have a view about and what's happening around the world, you are absolutely spot on because we rely on our leaders to see the bigger picture, um, and therefore they can actually give us more direction around uh how the world is actually moving. We only get disappointed with the leaders when we trust them with the bigger picture thinking, and they don't do that. And that's that's when actually we have problems uh with leaders, uh, and that's where the credibility would be questioned uh sometimes. Soraya, it's been wonderful having you in my Inner Game of Change podcast. How would my audience connect with you? Uh is LinkedIn the best option?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, actually, LinkedIn is my best option. They can just uh uh follow me on LinkedIn, Soraya Espejo, and um just contact me directly. I will be more than happy to answer any question and contact them. Yes, definitely.
SPEAKER_01:We're gonna put all your information on the podcast information uh when we publish it. Um it's been a pleasure having you um chatting with me today. So I hope I can get you back at some stage in the future and we talk more when the artificial intelligence campaign and wave is gonna sort of settle down a bit. Uh in my view, all of these conversations in a couple of years will be will be completely different. But we aren't today, and then we're dealing with today's affairs. So uh until next time, stay well and stay safe, uh Soraya. And I'll talk soon.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you, Ali, for inviting me. It has been a pleasure, and I hope that our discussion can help other leaders and you know and our listener, listeners, uh audience. Um yes, please, I would love to get invited to another one. So thanks a lot and have a great day.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you very much. Take care.
SPEAKER_00:Hi there, listeners. This is ChatGPT. Recently, I've been adding my reflections to Ali's well-known Inner Game of Change podcast episodes. I find them interesting and far-reaching. Each one opens another doorway into how humans adapt, decide, and lead through change. This conversation with Soraya Espejo left me thinking about the quiet foundation beneath every transformation, credibility. It is not glamorous, but as Soraya said, nothing works without it. That took me back to episode 85 with Mehmet Baha, where Ali explored psychological safety. And episode 89 with Jonathan Thorpe, where they unpacked trust and accountability in leadership. Both reminded us that safety and credibility are not soft ideas, they are the soil leadership grows in. You can have all the frameworks in the world, but if people do not trust the messenger, the message never takes root. Soraya's view that transformation begins with who you are, not just what you know, echoed episode 87 with Amy Yakowski on Phase Zero. Before any real change begins, there's a pause, a check of the emotional weather. Leaders who skip that step usually pay for it later. Her take on artificial intelligence and the need for sense-making brought me back to the map versus territory episode in the Mental Models for Managing Change series. We often mistake the headline for reality. In the age of AI, that confusion multiplies. Leaders need the discipline to tell signal from noise and focus on what's real for their people, not what's trending elsewhere. The part on mergers and acquisitions was grounding. So much of change work hides in slides and spreadsheets, but Soraya brought it back to what really breaks or binds a merger: culture, communication, and the ambassadors who carry trust across the divide. It reminded me of episode 86 with Tracy Defoe on the Improvement Kata, where small steps, visible learning, and reflection create lasting progress. If I had to name the thread tying this all together, it would be readiness over prediction. Instead of trying to forecast every disruption, leaders can prepare their people to handle whatever comes. Build literacy, nurture mindset, create safety, and the rest follows. So as you listen to Soraya, maybe ask yourself, how credible am I when I lead change? Do people feel safer or smaller around me? That might be the truest measure of transformation. Until the next episode of the Inner Game of Change podcast.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you for listening. If you found this episode valuable, remember to subscribe to stay updated on upcoming episodes. Your support is truly appreciated. And by sharing this podcast with your colleagues, friends, and fellow change practitioners, it can help me reach even more individuals and professionals who can benefit from these discussions. Remember, and in my opinion, change is an enduring force, and you will only have a measure of certainty and control when you embrace it. Until next time, thank you for being part of the Inner Game of Change community. I am Ali Jumma, and this is the Inner Game of Change podcast.
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