The Inner Game of Change
Welcome to The Inner Game of Change podcast, where we dive deep into the complexities of managing organisational change. Tailored for leaders, change practitioners, and anyone driving transformation, our episodes explore key topics like leadership, communication, change capability, and process design. Expert guests share practical strategies and insights to help you navigate and lead successful change initiatives. Listen in to learn fresh ideas and perspectives from a variety of industries, and gain the tools and knowledge you need to lead transformation with confidence. Explore our episodes at www.theinnergameofchange.com.au, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Youtube or anywhere you listen to your podcasts.
The Inner Game of Change
E97 - The Augmented Change Practitioner - Podcast With Joanne Rinaldi
Welcome to The Inner Game of Change. where we explore the thinking behind the doing of change.
In this episode, we turn our attention to something that is reshaping every part of our work — artificial intelligence. Not as a headline or a fear, but as a companion in how we learn, decide, and lead.
My guest, Joanne Rinaldi, brings a wealth of experience leading enterprise transformation and building centres of excellence that help people think and perform differently. She has spent years helping teams grow through change — not just manage it.
Together, we explore what happens when AI moves from being a tool we use to a collaborator in our practice. What it means for judgement, empathy, and the human craft of change.
I am grateful to have Joanne chating with me today.
About
Career experience in leading strategic transformational change initiatives. Establish and operationalise centres of excellence to enable new & improved ways of thinking and performing. Lead a client portfolio of strategic advisory services; enterprise transformation, business optimisation, innovative and contemporary learning design and delivery. Leadership and capability frameworks.
Lead and inspire 'right' performing teams while nurturing a growth mindset, promoting health & wellbeing and a creating a fun-filled learning environment.
Passionate photographer and sports coach/player for fun and fitness!
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Ali Juma
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And that's the key there, Ali, is the the keyword is quick. You know, it can automate and provide me with a draft or a summary or information quickly. Will it take away what I do? No, you need to validate it still, you need to go through it. It won't take away my engagement with others, validation with others, activities with others, but it will speed up my administration, so to speak.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome to the Inner Game of Change podcast, where we explore the thinking behind the doing of change. I am your host, Ali Jumma. In this episode, we turn our attention to something that is reshaping every part of our work, artificial intelligence. Not as a headline or a fear, but as a companion in how we learn, decide, and lead. My guest, Joanne Rinaldi, brings a wealth of experience leading enterprise transformation and building centers of excellence that help people think and perform differently. She has spent years helping teams grow through change, not just manage it. Together, we explore what happens when AI moves from being a tool we use to a collaborator in our practice, what it means for judgment, empathy, and the human craft of change. Joanne calls it the augmented practitioner. Someone who lets AI handle the noise so they can focus on meaning. I am grateful to have Joanne speaking with me today. Well, Joanne, thank you so much for joining me in the Inner Game of Change podcast. It's so good to see you again after all of these years.
SPEAKER_06:Ali, thank you for the invitation. Great to see you again.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. Uh just for you and for my listeners, um the leading downloaded episode in my podcast, I think is nearing about 5,000, is actually your ATCA uh episode. So it's leading by a mile. Every single day there are a few hundred people listening to it. So uh at some stage we probably need to re-imagine it and rethink it and re-record it. And that was four years ago. But today we're gonna cover a topic that is relevant today, which is the intersection between AI and change management practice, looking at how AI hopefully can augment our practice, the augmented change manager practice. So when you hear the augmented change management practice, what does that mean to you at a higher level?
SPEAKER_06:Great question. To me, it just means how can I make it work for me? How does it serve me and how do I play in that space both from a creative personal perspective and then shift that into a professional perspective?
SPEAKER_01:How currently are you using uh AI?
SPEAKER_06:Where I am right now, yeah, quite a lot. So I'm on a steep learning curve. Um at the same time, outside of work, I've been utilizing AI from a photography perspective, uh utilizing it from a planning perspective. So in different ways for different reasons. Experiential more so in in the workplace, saying, okay, I'm creating an agent. What do I want the agent to do? Um, what do I need? So I'm going in with a curious mindset uh to really play in that space to get a good sense of, okay, do I have my prompting the way I need it to have? And I keep exploring, so I go into that space. Second, I go into what can I automate or create a draft or set something up that's going to help me and serve a purpose. Other times I just want to go in there with a bit of fun and say, how creative can I be and have a bit of fun with this? And what can I learn from that?
SPEAKER_01:We have two movements happening at the same time. Um there's a change that is happening or impacting our own craft, and then there's a change that is impacting our stakeholders. The same change. The same change. How do you see this dance between us upgrading our craft, understanding the new change, so we can articulate that and help the stakeholders?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. I think uh there's a couple of key areas there. Uh one, you want to really assess where are your stakeholders at with engaging with you with AI. So understanding where their confidence and competency level may be. I tend to think there's a comfort area there. Second, how can you make that work with you from an engagement perspective? That's really important. So making it safe, making it simple, but understanding where they are first. That's like with any tool, to be honest. I tend to find it's important to understand where they are and then meet them to where you want them to be, but creating a safe space in order to do that.
SPEAKER_01:Is it safe to say, Joanne, now that the majority of the workplaces in Australia are kind of at the start of this journey of the adoption?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, look, I would say yes. It although it's highly dependent on what enablers do they have in the workplace. You know, do they have co-pilot to the extreme? Do they have access to all the technology to help them do that? Um, do they have permission to then enable that? Um different workplaces are at different levels, and it comes back to leadership, comes back to investment from a capability technological perspective, but also from a permission perspective. Um, there is an element of compliance and safety and so forth, so there's the risk-aberse. Um, so there's a lot of dynamics that you need to take into consideration as to what freedom do you have in order to utilize AI and then how would you use that? What's the purpose? What's the outcome? From a change management perspective, is leveraging of what you have and don't have, and utilizing it from there. So I tend to find, say, for example, in previous workplaces, more recently, didn't have the advanced tools like I would now. So it would actually not encourage me to take it to another level where where I am right now, I can. So I think it's really dependent on what you have access to.
SPEAKER_01:For the change manager, um, well, first of all, I'm what I'm seeing is that there is a there's a level of consistency now in the workplaces that the majority are in the curious stage. Uh, maybe some people are a little bit ahead, but they're not that far ahead. There's another uh variable also that the technology itself is transforming on a daily basis. So whatever you've learned last year, chances are uh you would need to upgrade now. For example, uh co-pilot as a capability. December 2023 was released. In January and February, I got hold of a license, and then it was very clunky, it was doing weird stuff, and and I've learned it that way. And then today, Copilot is a very well-oiled machine, um, very seamless experience. So, can you see here that uh I'll give you another example. I have trained people last year on Copilot, personally myself, yes, but I also have trained groups last month. I think the groups last last month are far more advanced than the groups that I trained last year. The problem that many organizations will have with the change management aspect is that how do you keep upgrading the skills of your people when the technology keeps changing on a daily basis? Uh the there is a I think that stability will only happen in the technology. Maybe it's gonna take another couple of years in there. Let's just play with this uh for for a second. Let's just uh look at ATCA as a as a framework. Where do you see AI can help with all of these stages? Just throw at me some example.
SPEAKER_06:Okay. Um from an awareness perspective, okay, we're aware that it's there. We're aware of the opportunity to go in and utilize in some shape or form. I'll give you an example. Recently coming into a program of work, um, and in SharePoint there's a whole lot of folders, a lot of information of coming deep into an existing program of work. And it takes some time to be brought up to speed on knowing where this uh program of work is at, and then where do you take over from what's existing? Streams of folders, lots of information, lots of data, lots of I guess, movement and progress that has been made to date.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_06:And just by setting up an agent on all those folders to provide me with a summary of current state and then to generate next steps. I mean, I'm simplifying it clearly because I went through a few prompts to breaking breaking it all down. Yes. Yes, with different team members to get a good sense of where it's at. So was it an answer? Well, no, not necessarily. It didn't stop me from engaging with team members and so forth, and you know, what worked well and even better if. So the awareness that that was there, my desire to go in and generate and play and go through the prompting to get the summaries and the next steps and etc. The knowledge. Well, I had some knowledge, although I had to prompt a few times before I really started to get what I wanted, and then I went to the next level from there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Um, action steps and recommendations. I would dare say from the ability part, I validated that with team members around me.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_06:Uh reinforcement, you bet I'm going to be doing this with with other folders and other, you know, SharePoint spaces, etc. But it gives you an opportunity to say, yes, I will repeat this. Yeah. Where there's uh a chance to go in and do this again from a different perspective, getting summaries, understanding um, you know, current state of play as an example. And that's one of many examples, but how valuable was that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I do find it um, well, first of all, it's a caveat that um I used to call this uh professional wisdom, which is AI is not gonna be able to replace your judgment in many ways. Or maybe in the future it can, I mean it's gonna be more insightful probably, but there's always this sense of uniqueness that each human has got that I'm not too sure if AI will always be able to replicate that. The way I look at it for the change management, it's efficiency is is basically an entry point uh for it. But really where you're getting is your situational awareness. Uh is that it gives you that speed and and the collection of information and the the synthesizing of the insights so you can make better decisions faster. Uh so for example, you know, uh you've got a new software and you wanna help the organization or any organization to adopt it. In the past, you'll probably take days to do some research and all of that. If ever you do research externally, you're gonna rely on a business case. Nowadays you've got an agent that can look at the software, compare it with other organizations, compare it with the outside world, come back to you with applicability to your situation, gives you whole ideas about some of the friction points that can happen as part of the adoption. So can you see the picture here is actually prepared me and with that full awareness, and I think that that is actually the magic about this capability. Uh, not only about the change itself, obviously you can apply the same lens uh to your stakeholders. Uh what worked, what didn't work in the past, it can give you all of that information very quickly.
SPEAKER_06:And that's and that's the key there, Ali, is the the keyword is quick. You know, it can automate and provide me with a draft or a summary or information quickly. Will it take away what I do? No, you need to validate it still, you need to go through it. It won't take away my engagement uh with others, validation with others, activities with others, but it will speed up my administration, so to speak, um, from that perspective. It was interesting because it wasn't too long ago um I was running a session with some project managers, and um we were creating, I guess, a what would I define like a change on a page micro canvas. And um as we were running this activity together, and I was helping them to say, okay, when you're engaging with stakeholders, you want to get their language, their words, etc. And I said, Oh, let's provide an example. So I asked for um inclusive words, and I said, here's a quick way of doing it. Pull out your phone, who he has Chat GPT of some shape or form, go in there and ask for incluse a list of inclusive words when it comes to change. And they all did. So they went on there and had their uh words of inclusive words, you know, we, us, you know, et cetera. I said, now type them into the chat and et cetera. So we worked through that way. And I incorporated that in the activity. So utilizing something simple like a chat GPT, et cetera, to do that. I also showed them that it was safe.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:It's not about you having all the answers. Yes, you would have had, you would have come up with the answers in the end, but we all jammed together and we did an AI, you know, jam session, so to speak. So, in a way, it was inclusive, it was generating ideas, it was providing some information, but it was a quick way of doing it. Um, even another time we created a visual. I said, okay, we want to create a visual of what does um someone look like when they're happy about the change that's coming down the pipeline. So type in desire. What does desire look like when it comes to change? And what does frustration look like? So we did visuals from that perspective. So again, where we can automate and generate together, um, I just find it's it's a sense of fun. Um when you do it with others, it makes it safe. Hey, it's okay, we're doing this, uh, we're learning at the same time. But I'm enhancing that curious mindset.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:So, in a way, as a change practitioner, I want to enhance what I do through all technologies that I have around me. So, whether it's you know, Mentimeter through running activities and polls and so forth, AI is no different. That's a part of the tool of the trade from that perspective. As a craft, sure, there are programs of work, and there are new systems and processes that are coming in that have levels of um automation, sophistication, um, analysis, et cetera, and recommendations that are coming into many organizations, whether it's a new um HR system of some sort, uh, a recruitment, a capability system, um, and so on, that then is just the next level when it comes to changes, like any system that comes into the workplace, you're overlaying change and adoption and performance with that system. It just so happens that now it has a level of AI and automation incorporated in that. So it makes no difference from a change practitioner from that perspective. You're just including that as a part of the change overall. And the AI literacy is that level of comfort that people are familiar or not familiar with.
SPEAKER_01:We've been advocating for change management as a practice for long years now. We always wanted a seat at the table, you know, the symbolic table. And I think it's important for all of the change management community now to be ahead of the game. You should not be the same as your stakeholders. I think we should be ahead. Technology is always ahead of us. We should be slightly ahead of our stakeholders to understand the technology, understand to adopt it ourselves and understand how it's gonna impact the workplace. We're still the captain of our call. We still make the calls, the calls and the decisions as a human in the loop um in here. But here are some ideas for you, and then he can critique me on uh on them. That seat at the table, if I don't get it, probably in today's age does not matter. Probably. Why? Because I've got a capability now that can uh compensate for me not being there by getting a lot of analysis, synthesizing of of of uh information, research, historical data. I can get all of that. So that that that's one thought that I've been thinking about. And the the other impact a new entry-level change managers joining their community, I think they are coming in a golden age as well. I think they are coming in an age where this capability can fast forward their experience. Um, I can sit with my chat GPT or co-pilot, I can build a full context with it to say, um, I've just got I moved, I changed career, and then I'm actually a change manager now, and I'm gonna be working with this particular client. I can guarantee you within an hour, the capability will actually give me a 360 view about what I need to do and when I need to equip myself and what challenges I'm gonna be facing, and not only the challenges, also ideas and plans to mitigate those challenges. What's your take on that?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, look, if it can speed up a impact assessment, yeah. Um if it can speed up um and give me an analysis a lot quicker than it would normally take to have, you know, people do that with me in a team, again, it comes back to that speed.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Is it as accurate as individuals? You know, you can question that because I still think it requires validation anyway, whether it's a human intervention validation or otherwise. And that's no different, even if humans were doing it, still want to validate it within a team. I think it adds to our craft. I don't think it would replace what we do because we still need engagement, we still are humans, we still need interaction, we still need conversations. That's a given. It's more like okay, am I creating a team of um agents that are going to be fast tracking a lot of the work that I do? Yes. What does that fast track look like? Does it mean that we're going to get to end state on a change quicker? Not necessarily. So there's a lot of dependencies there. Um the key thing is really understanding what are the success indicators that we're looking for when it comes to utilizing AI as a part of our craft.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:That's that's the only way I want to look at it. I think too is to link AI solving pain points, not replacing people.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:So what are those pain points that it's solving uh for me? And I can recognize and reward those experimentation, data-driven decisions, etc., that's going to help me make as I move forward. So, in a way, it's it's probably not taking anything away from me of what I naturally do. It's just adding value from a speed perspective, creating drafts for me. Um, is there an opportunity that one day it will replace my role? Or no, not if I grow my role. So it gives me an opportunity to say what becomes my focus point of my future role. Like recently, I loaded my um job description in um, you know, let's call it Chat GPT, loaded up my job description, I said, okay, have a look at all these competencies, et cetera, and provide me with a future focused of three years from now and five years from now, or what skill sets would change and what learning would I need to do and invest in moving forward? And what would change management role look like in the future incorporating change? So it gave me some interesting data to look at overall. It enhanced my role and it grew my role to a different level. It didn't take away anything other than more of the administration, more of the analysis, bringing back to speed. But it gave me more insight into say, okay, where do I want to focus? Where do I want to learn? So it's like if anything, we want to evolve, um, not delete.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. It's it's the question that I posed to a number of project managers um last week. If AI frees up 30% of your time, how would you spend that time? Well, I I'm still sitting on the fence if it's gonna replace some people's jobs, but I think I strongly believe that if you're a subject matter expert uh or or an experienced professional with this capability, I think you can add more value. And that value will actually be will be transformed into something else. In our situation, we've always wanted to take the time to have meaningful conversations to help with more learning, to coach teams on change adoption without being hurried up by the project manager for time and you know, and and all of that. The other thing that I think it could give us, and yes, some people say, Oh, you mean Ali that I need to do more work? You probably can do more work. The other thing that I think it can add value to us as a community is that you can service more than one client at the same time. Um and therefore you actually double your value. I think gone are the days when you're gonna have to have one project, sorry, one change manager for one project or even two projects, you know, a small one and a big one and what or medium size, whatever you want to call it. I think with this capability you can actually manage multiple ones. Knowing that you can create a couple of agents plus the generative AI capability. I think you've got an army around you to actually manage a number of projects at the same time. I'm not dreaming because I've actually been doing this over the last 12 months in there. But it it can border on that I am God, I'm actually busy. But the busyness is actually adding more value to the organization in there. Yep.
SPEAKER_06:That's an interesting way of looking at it because you know, creating agents in in this in the sense of saying, okay, I have three, four agents that are doing a good portion of my work, therefore I can take on more. So what is it that I'm taking on, in the sense exactly what you said, I'm taking on more projects, um, you know, creating a workforce in the sense of saying, okay, strategic level, um, planning level. It doesn't take anything away from me other than creates other opportunities. Um, so enhances there. And not even from a change management perspective. You can look at it from all different sorts of roles, right through from um administration, auditors, finance, HR, etc. So it expands that capability to another level. Um, I think the fear, me, I don't have any fear in the sense of, oh, you know, AI is going to take anything away from me. In fact, if anything, it's going to elevate opportunities to add to my craft. Um, whether it's, you know, elements of um creative design, elements of, you know, I want to shape something into another area, and I'm leaning in on AI just as much as I'm leaning on experts in certain areas, and I'm treating AI as a semi-expert in that pool at the same time. Um, I think it's a I think overall it's an opportunity to really play in this space, get an understanding and your own confidence as an individual, and look at it then also from a professional perspective and what does it mean with others?
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_06:Um, I like sitting down with uh you know designers and HR experts, um, recruiters, and so on, and say, how does this shape? What does this look like for us in our craft and how do we work together? How do we make um technology and AI work for us in what we're doing, but also holistically, not just independently? Because when you're dealing with stakeholders and you're working with others, it's a large program of work as an example, and you have finance involved, you have IT involved, you have HR capability teams, etc., and you're all working together, and we're all utilizing the same sort of tools in a different way to say, okay, how are we now leveraging this for the speed of adoption overall? It's quite a fascinating space to be in. And I'm sure you're having the same conversations with um your stakeholders as we speak, Arlene.
SPEAKER_01:I think I'm beyond the conversation. I actually I'm in the business of showing them what it does now.
SPEAKER_05:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:And I want to touch on a couple of things. Uh um the reason why I think this is going to help us add more value. You just mentioned something really important, which is the compound effect on an organization when you deliver better experience and better value. Um, you actually literally fast forwarding their progress. I strongly believe, and I'm coaching a group of change managers and project managers together currently. I've showed them and I've used Copilot to actually analyze 10 of their last projects. 95% of the projects were had an overrun in time and cost. So I said to them, would this capability could it eliminate one of these issues for you? Because then the whole idea of if you you have an overrun in time, that means you haven't really planned it properly, uh, or you know, lots of variables in there. You haven't really anticipated a lot of issues that will come your way. So perhaps this capability can give you the headlights, foresight that you need to have before you embark on that journey. And and imagine the impact and the value for an organization when you meet all of those constraints. The other thing that I want to touch on is that all of us complain in many ways that we don't have a lot of runway for adoption. And so we train people and then we move on from the knowledge to ability and then reinforcement, God, that's a couple of weeks and then we move on to another project. Could this capability help us to manage the front end faster so we can actually invest time later? Or could this capability help us manage the reinforcement for previous projects that we really managed by enabling those management teams to use the capability and therefore it's not going to have a huge impact on their time. Because remember everybody saying I don't have time and then we say to them perfect we've got this capability for you that will help you have time. The question I want to ask you is that where do you stand if a challenge manager uses all of the capability to help them with their work how comfortable are they to actually go to their stakeholders and say I have used the technology and this is the product of my use of technology where where are we at as a practice do we feel comfortable to say I've utilized a couple of agents and ChatGPT and I've done my research and I'm comfortable with my research or we don't say anything about it.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. And you know what it's almost it's almost at an individual level me personally I'm comfortable because I'm using that to engage to have the conversation to validate um to work together on the analysis that's being provided. I also also have to know my stakeholder too because there are some stakeholders that may not be that comfortable or confident or competent for even that matter yes in comparison others. So I I need to know that I need to know where their level of confidence and comfort levels are in order for me to to have that conversation. I think it's powerful and I think from that perspective it shouldn't be a disabler it should be enabler and truly this is where we are heading more towards anyway so to generate information and all that content you're still going in to say okay I'm going to engage with you based on this as opposed to oh for example lessons learned how many times do we do lessons learned at the end of a project and we engage with individuals we get into a room we go through the you know 10,000 sticky notes go through all the different sections etc etc and then what happens to most lessons learned they get stored into a file and probably most of the time never be seen again. Can you imagine if we had 10 lessons learned of the last 10 projects aggregated all the um you know themes of what really worked and what didn't what were the cost of themes generate within minutes an outcome and then go in and say hey 10 projects this is what we aggregated through you know AI. This is what it came back let's have a look at this now. So now we've taken what could have taken a long time it's been done before all in one room together the last 10 these the common themes and have a conversation based on that as opposed to one project a thousand sticky notes and and a level of I guess personal bias even take it away in a sense to say okay now let's have a real conversation moving forward. I think that's powerful then if I think of awareness for the next project wow look at all the lessons learned on the last 10 that's been aggregated in minutes and we've had a conversation based on that I tend to think it's adding valuable context for us as professions but also from a capability moving forward. I tend to find that to me is more exciting of a conversation than having one you know two hours lesson learned on one project that may not move or progress from there. So I still think it's the way we use it.
SPEAKER_01:Lessons learned that's actually an ongoing exercise um I've showed the project group uh maybe a month ago I don't need to meet every three weeks and then have a long-winded you know 90 minutes and um I said to them ask co-pilot you've recorded all of these meetings and ask co-pilot at the end of each meeting give me a couple of things that I need to be aware of and move on. So you learn you don't just wait and then learn later you learn as you go and corrective action would need to happen. I'll share with you an example and I think it's part of the I'm driving an ethical way to share with my stakeholders where the boundaries are I actually share with the stakeholders what information I've asked generative AI to collect on them publicly available information and then how I'm using it as well and how I validate it. I think and many people appreciated that they and I explain why I need to do that. That's part of my transparency. I'm collecting data on my stakeholders and therefore they need to be aware of it. There were two examples uh over the last few months when I did this and I actually shared with them and I said to them and by the way you need to correct your information the publicly available information because it's not accurate. Like one of them was still saying they are the COO of an organization. And they're not aware of that. But that's come up in the the analysis it's it's almost like an ethical way to manage the change using this capability and I think that's a new lens that we need to look at and absolutely I would like to share with them what I've done with the generative AI. That's my way of indirectly nudging them that they need to feel comfortable with the technology.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah I totally agree this is where again it's the level of conversations that you come in with based on the information that you have that's going to help dictate that. And I and I think that's the space that we're creating as a part of highlighting everyday uses to build that confidence with your stakeholders and sharing the stories to say, oh okay well this is what we have here. You know it's no different had we done this with a group of people it's just we're doing it quicker. We're doing it with more content and more information looking ahead in the next couple of years hopefully we will meet again where do you think we'll be then it will will the capability be part of the business as usual for us and an expectation without a doubt um I think it'll be part of the workforce DNA it's no different to many other systems that we've brought into the workplace in the past I remember even from a you know learning management systems when they first came in I was going to take away face-to-face learning etc well no actually it didn't it just gave introduced another channel another avenue for learning I think this is introducing another channel another avenue at an extreme level um from an automation perspective from an analysis perspective from even perhaps even a strategic perspective but to adding value um taking what we do today to another level I I think overall reinforcing the behaviors is to recognize and reward experimentation and data driven decisions I think that's going to add to that um to what level I don't have the crystal ball but I'm definitely curious to know what that would look like.
SPEAKER_01:And I'm very curious and excited at the same time thinking about the possibilities for this. Do you think at some stage that organizations will mandate using things like generative AI Oh mandate is a strong word.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah I don't know I'd like to think encourage as opposed to mandate but I think it will be changed by design within existing systems and workflows and processes moving forward. So I truly believe it will be intrinsically within what we do rather than oh you have to I think it'll be embedded within.
SPEAKER_01:The reason why I'm asking this question, I've already seen this and there you go yes I've already seen it in the world and I've seen it in discussion forums and actually somehow it makes sense. If you're a project team and you've got a a very limited number of resources it becomes an expectation that if you join an if you're gonna join my team I'm gonna train you I'm gonna equip you with the technology so I do expect you to use the technology to the best of your ability to deliver the value and the service. I am expecting that at some stage it'll become part of the expectations uh but I am at the same time with you that adoption organically will happen and the value will will be realized and at some stage um we've seen it many many times now if I am if my colleague is already using it and they celebrate it as success I'll be very curious about it. I've also seen that there's not a lot of philosophical resistance around it. Maybe that was a couple of years ago but I'm I'm seeing that that particular topic and issue has been neutralized mainly because that's the go and this technology is not going to go away. So people started realizing that somebody shared with me their philosophical view around they don't want to use certain platforms because they think they've stolen already a lot of open source literature and all of that. And my advice to them and they were not my current client they actually were outside and then I was in a forum and my advice to them is that don't lose your philosophical view on it. But but but at the same time do not lose the opportunity to explore it. So I think he mentioned at the start give yourself the permission to explore it but certainly you are an individual of course keep your philosophical views about it. All of us are in the business of servicing others and if I think the others will be disadvantaged by me not using the technology then I'm not doing my job properly.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah and I think in in a sense overall Ali is create a simple AI adoption framework. So you know define the purpose align AI adoption with business values and people outcomes. Exactly co-design with users involve them early to reduce the fear and increase ownership simplify the processes so use people human centered design to integrate AI naturally into workflows communicate the why so link AI to solving pain points not replacing people and then the last is to reinforce the behaviors recognize and reward experimentation and data driven decisions in that space. So that's kind of enabling a cultural change of AI by utilizing and creating a simple AI adoption framework.
SPEAKER_01:I love it I love it we are coming to the end of the podcast as usual uh time flies with you Joanne and then I'm really enjoying this conversation I am learning a lot and you can hear it in my voice um uh I get excited about this because I've heard this the other day that the whole world is going into change management and uh with this capability and then I think I think our practice is in the front seat to actually help organizations lead it as long as we don't as long as we give ourselves the permission to explore and be slightly ahead of the game. Meaning invest a little bit in your capability as a professional to lead organizations and enable them. Have a curious mindset have fun and keep learning curious mindset have fun and keep learning great way to close this episode with you Joanne I hope I can get you back again uh maybe in 12 months time and we could we have a sort of a checkpoint and see where things are at with AI. Until next time stay well Joanne and thank you.
SPEAKER_06:Thank you pleasure and great to see you again I'll see you in 12 months.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. Hi there I am ChatGPT back again with my review of this conversation between Ali and Joanne on the inner game of change. Ali in his usual engaging and curious mind drew out a conversation that felt both practical and hopeful. Joanne met him right there with honesty humility and a good dose of curiosity herself together they explored how AI is changing the rhythm of change work, not replacing it, but reshaping where our time and attention go. Both agreed that speed is only useful when guided by sense making that AI can take care of the drafting and the admin, but meaning still belongs to humans. It was a dance between optimism and discernment between what we can automate and what we must still feel. Joanne's line it adds to our craft it does not replace it could have been the headline for the whole episode. It echoes earlier inner game themes from leverage points to map versus territory all reminders that tools are only as wise as the hands that use them. Allie's reflections tied it beautifully together that the real opportunity is not in faster outputs but in deeper judgment, empathy and creativity. So here is my takeaway when curiosity leads, adoption follows. AI might make the work lighter, but the heart of change is still human. I would love to hear your thoughts what did you take from this episode? Share your reflections, your experiments, your own inner game. I am looking forward to more of these conversations that keep stretching how we think about understanding and adopting change. Right here with Allie on the inner game of change.
SPEAKER_01:Until next time stay curious stay kind and let the machines do the paperwork thank you for listening if you found this episode valuable remember to subscribe to stay updated on upcoming episodes. Your support is truly appreciated. And by sharing this podcast with your colleagues friends and fellow change practitioners it can help me reach even more individuals and professionals who can benefit from these discussions. Remember and in my opinion change is an enduring force and you will only have a measure of certainty and control when you embrace it. Until next time thank you for being part of the Inner Game of Change community. I am Ali Jumma and this is the Inner Game of Change podcast.
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