E104 - Consistency In A World Of Change - Podcast with Dr Michael Canic

Welcome to The Inner Game of Change.  where we explore the thinking that shapes how change really happens. 

Today’s conversation is a special one for me.

My guest today was actually the very first person I interviewed when I started this podcast during the middle of Covid back in April 2021. At the time, the world was navigating uncertainty, disruption, and trying to make sense of what consistency meant when everything around us was shifting.

Since then, a lot has happened. The podcast has passed one hundred episodes, the world has moved through Covid, and we now find ourselves in another wave of transformation with Artificial Intelligence entering the workplace and our lives in profound ways.

So I thought it would be meaningful to bring him back.

My guest is Michael Canic, author of the book Ruthless Consistency. It was one of the books I was reading at the time when the idea of this podcast first came to me.

Michael’s central idea is simple but powerful. Consistency is not about robotic repetition. It is about the relentless alignment of intentions, decisions, and actions.

In this conversation we revisit the idea of consistency, but in a very different context.

We explore whether consistency is the opposite of change, or whether it is actually the thing that enables change. We talk about consistency in leadership, in capability building, and in the way individuals manage themselves in a world full of distraction.

And of course, we also touch on Artificial Intelligence, and how it is beginning to amplify the conditions that already exist inside organisations.

This is a reflective conversation about leadership, identity, discipline, and the inner game of navigating uncertainty.

I am grateful to have Michael chatting with me again.

Ali Juma 
@The Inner Game of Change podcast

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Transcript

Reunion After 100 Episodes

Ali 0:07

Welcome back to the Inner Game of Change, where we explore the thinking that shapes how change really happens. I am your host, Ali Jama. Today's conversation is a special one for me. My guest today was actually the first person I interviewed when I started this podcast during the middle of COVID back in April 2021. At the time, the world was navigating uncertainty, disruption, and trying to make sense of what consistency meant when everything around us was shifting. Since then, a lot has happened. The podcast has passed 100 episodes. The world has moved through COVID. We now find ourselves in another wave of transformation with artificial intelligence entering the workplace and our lives in profound ways. So I thought it would be meaningful to bring him back. My guest is Michael Cannock, the author of the book Ruthless Consistency. It was one of the books that I was reading at the time when the idea of this podcast first came to me. Michael's central idea is simple but powerful. Consistency is not about robotic repetition, it is about the relentless alignment of intentions, decisions, and actions. In this conversation, we revisit the idea of consistency, but in a different context. We explore whether consistency is the opposite of change or whether it is actually the thing that enables the change. We talk about consistency in leadership, in capability building, and in the way individuals manage themselves in a world full of distraction. And of course, we also touch on artificial intelligence and how it is beginning to amplify the conditions that already exist inside organizations. This is a reflective conversation about leadership, identity, discipline, and the inner game of navigating uncertainty. I am grateful to have Michael chatting with me again. Well, Michael, thank you so much for joining me again in the Inner Game of Chance podcast. I talked to you first in April 2021.

Michael 2:25

Well, great to be here and uh congratulations on passing a hundred broadcasts now. Our podcasts. You know, people a lot of people start podcasts, a lot of people get underway, but you've reached a milestone, and great to uh great to see that it's persistent is obviously uh uh resonating with people. So congratulations, Ali.

Purpose In A VUCA World

Ali 2:43

I would thank you so much. I was uh practicing consistency as you've uh your book taught me quite a few things. Ruthless Consistency is one of the books that I was reading at the time when the idea of a podcast came into me during COVID. And so we talked about consistency during COVID and what it means to people and in the workplace. We are today, five years later, we are in the age of AI. How do you see the world has shifted?

Michael 3:16

Well, it's shifted in a number of ways. And first of all, who could have predicted, you know, five years ago we would have uh gone through what we've gone through and ended up where we are. And it just speaks to you know the importance of being able to change, being able to adapt, and being able to focus and function in an uncertain world. You know, the biggest change is you know in the strategy world, which the you know, the term used as VUCA, you know, volatile, uncertain, complex, you know, ambiguous. And we've certainly gone through that, one with the pandemic, of course. And then more recently, just politically and geopolitically, you know, there's a lot of uh a lot of uncertainty now. So I find more than ever people really need, you know, need that uh life ring, so to speak, to hold on to what is our purpose, what is our focus, what is our meaning, and then the consistent alignment with that.

Ali 4:04

I want to share with you something that a guest shared with me a couple of months ago. She said her word for 2026 is consistency. What's going on in her world, Michael?

Michael 4:19

Well, you know, if I were to guess, I would say there are a lot of distractions now, a lot of things that can grab our attention, get us off track, cause us to lose focus. And, you know, as I've uh talked about before, it's it's our distractability that's the issue. And so consistency is rooted in our self-management, our ability to sustain focus, you know, and you know, reconnect with what is meaningful to us, what is purposeful to us, what should we be focusing on, because there are many things pulling us in different directions. You know, whether it's, you know, we've got everything to do with AI now, media sources have been proliferating, uh, political uncertainty, economic uncertainty. There are a lot of things that can draw away our attention. So I think that consistency of purpose, which is really the definition of ruthless consistency, it's that that relentless alignment of intentions, decisions, and actions. It's that, you know, that that alignment of those three things, that's what we need to be very consistent with, and it's very easy to get distracted.

Consistency That Enables Change

Ali 5:20

And by the way, you know, the guest was talking about for her to go further and serve her audience better, perhaps she needs to be a little bit more consistent. And in that way, then similar to what you just mentioned, she's linking consistency with the soul of her purpose, basically. And and uh that's what I like about it. And when she mentioned that that's her word for the year, and and and she s service services a big community in New Zealand, I thought of you immediately, and I thought uh it's a mental note for me to talk to Michael about this particular one. I I've been reflecting a lot on consistency, especially, especially over the last couple of years, and I work in the business of change and adoption. Is consistency the opposite of change, or is it an enabler?

Michael 6:18

Great. And I get that question asked uh a lot. By consistent, you mean you know, doing the same thing the same way all the time. Yeah. You know, robotic repetition, mindless execution. And the answer is no. Again, it's that it's that ruthless consistency of purpose. And the approaches you take to that may be varied, but as long as they are all clearly aligned with that purpose, that's where the consistency is. So, you know, the innovation, similarly, we have to innovate, but if that innovation is in service to a focus, a purpose that is consistent, then we're doing the right thing. So I would say, you know, consistency to be able to, you know, adapt to change, you know, is absolutely critical. Consistency of our focus and purpose, asking ourselves, what is change is happening? What does it mean? What are the implications? What do I need to do to optimize, you know, my adaptation to change? The consistency of asking those kinds of questions, you know, is at the root of this. And so, no, consistency is not incompatible with with change. As a matter of fact, if we want to, you know, adapt to change and optimize our response to change, we need to be consistent in our focus and uh intention to do that.

Ali 7:30

Toyota comes into mind when it comes to consistency, and I've read a lot about their philosophy and their practice. And there isn't there's an overarching emerging theme or practice in there. They are not not only they simplify stuff, but they are also consistent about it. Is that how consistency shows up in the workplace?

Michael 7:54

Yes, I I think of the three E's: effective, efficient, and evolving. So we want to the things we do that we're consistent in need to be effective. Because if we're very consistent doing something that isn't effective, that's not that's obviously not good. But they also need to be efficient. You know, being effective and being very inefficient isn't ideal either. So we want to make sure what we're doing is efficient. However, the 30 is really what speaks to change, and that's the evolving. The world is changing around us, market conditions change, technology change, people change, the whole context in which we're operating is always changing. So we have to make sure that our approaches are evolving as well. So that consistent commitment to being effective, efficient, and evolving in the workplace, I think that's the key to make sure that we, you know, tie together that consistency with the change we want to adapt to.

Ali 8:45

I want to ask you about uh the importance of consistency at an individual level. What are some of the steps that we need to take to create this level of consistency in our behavior, in our narrative, in our purpose, in our service?

Michael 9:03

Right. I think what drives it is what I call our self-management system. What is the system you have to make sure you capture the things that are your priorities, make sure they get reflected in your actions, make sure they get, you know, reviewed. So, for example, you know, some leaders will have, you know, the night before, they will plan the next day. You know, the belief is that each day, the success of each day starts with the night before. So their success is in determining what are my top priorities for the next day. For some people, it's having a routine. So it might be a morning routine of exercise or meditation or something of that sort. But we have to build these things into a habit so that they become automatic. And, you know, people often say, well, geez, you have to be so disciplined to be consistent. Well, you have to be disciplined to get started. But once you get started and keep doing that, right, then the discipline isn't necessary because you've truly made it a habit. So consistency often comes into play in our routines and how we program ourselves to respond to situations, whether that's stress or or uncertainty or whatever. So, you know, it's a matter of being very intentional. And, you know, I'm one, I'm a person who likes to document things. So I keep a documented record of, you know, kind of my priorities and goals. I like to review those visually, right? And then that plays into each day. Keep a booklet where I record things that you know I want to do that are uh ritualistic and important, and come back and reflect on that. So it's tapping into our own self-management system. What are those hacks that help you get the best out of you and make sure you're doing the things consistently that you need to do?

Ali 10:41

So, what you're saying is that consistency is a matter of design rather than we are relying on our willpower. Uh, I've been going deep into the idea of design recently. And at a personal level, I wanted to design certain systems in my life. So then I become less reactive. Are you touching on that?

Michael 11:05

Right. So design is a good word for it, for that self-management system. Designing your self-management system. You know, when do you get up? When do you rest? You know, do you know work out at certain times, eat at certain times, you know, manage what you eat and any little routine. But it doesn't mean willpower doesn't have a role because to get started and do that design and then translate it not to just, well, I've come up with a design, but start to take action on it, you know, translate that activation energy to turn the design into action. That's where the initial jolt of willpower is. Not superhuman willpower, but just enough to get started. So for example, you know, when I hear people say, you know, you know, I just I was too busy, I can't work out today. I say, look, let's go, let's go over to the wall there. You know, let's get up in a push-up position against the wall, do one push-up. Okay? Good, you've done something today, right? And I say, something is better than nothing. And of course, well, that's silly doing one push. Okay, well, it's silly. Next time you go to the wall, maybe you do two, or maybe you do three or whatever, right? Something is better than nothing. And if you do something regularly, you start to build the expectation, you build the repetition, you build the consistency in doing whatever it is you need to do.

Ali 12:20

In my head, I'm thinking you can be consistent about certain things, but also you can be flexible and you allow yourself to explore in other areas. For example, you can be consistent in your values, but how you practice and run your business within those values is a matter of flexibility. In my head, I'm also thinking there are types, are there types of consistency?

Michael 12:48

Well, the uh the flexibility, again, I think is good and necessary, but again, it's also in service to what you're trying to accomplish. So if those you know decisions and actions are varied, but they're all aligned with your intentions, then they are consistent with the intentions, even though they are varied, they are flexible. So it's that you know relentless alignment of intentions, decisions, and actions. You may be taking different actions, making different decisions, but as long as they're all aligned with what your intentions are, then that's good. So again, I don't see those as in opposition, but rather, you know, supportive of your intentions.

Feedback Loops Beat Stubborn Repetition

Ali 13:25

Aaron Powell When does consistency become a hurdle towards progress?

Michael 13:32

It's when you don't question what you're doing. So we need to have that feedback mechanism because some actions that may have helped you, you know, at one time, those may not be functional in the future. In other words, you know, what made you successful in the past could destroy you in the future. So we always need that feedback loop to ask ourselves: is this still effective? Is this still efficient? Am I still serving my intentions? Am I still moving towards accomplishing what I need to accomplish? It's that ongoing feedback loop. And many people have talked about the importance of experimentation. You know, you're always conducting experiments. Is this working? You're using the feedback as information, you're adjusting as needed, or you're maintaining if needed, but all of that again is consistent with meeting your intentions. So I would say it's that feedback loop that's so important. So you're actively questioning, is this still serving me?

Ali 14:23

I have been watching the Australian Open tennis competition re last week, and I've always been thinking around what is the purpose of a coach? Because they're not teaching meannek sinner how to hit a ball. Is their job really just to create that consistent level of performance?

Michael 14:51

As a coach and as someone who used to coach, you know, football in uh in Canada in university, you know, my my view is that the coach's role is to enable the individuals in the team to perform at their best. That's the role. You know, so they have skill, you know, and they have some knowledge. Enable them to perform at the best. And that may mean different things for different players. Some may need to work on physical conditioning, some may need to work on the psychological part of the game. Your role is to help them perform at their best. And that's both in terms of skill, knowledge, and but it can be motivational as well. And the great coaches, I think, Ali, re realize different approaches work for different individuals. You know, some people you just point them in the right direction, get out of the way. Other people need to be reinforced at every step. Am I doing this okay? Is this all right? Yes, it is. You can take the next step. So I think the coach is really a performance doctor, diagnosing what is it going to take for this player, this athlete, to perform at their best. You know, what buttons do I need to push, what levers do I need to pull? They are the enablers of that performance, and different approaches work for different players.

Ali 16:02

In a sport, and I would like to stay in that particular area for now, conditions are not always stable. You know, every game has got its own playing conditions and and there are lots of variables. How do you manage to stay consistent in performance in a an ever-changing environment?

Michael 16:26

Well, you know, uh certainly aligned with the title of this podcast, The Inner Game. Yeah, you know, success is often in the head. And I used to say this as a coach all the time, right? Where the game is won and lost is in your head. And it's how you deal with those things. So we would do exercises to help promote focus, train them in their focus. So whether you're playing in front of, you know, a handful of people, you're playing in front of, you know, tens of thousands of people, maintaining that focus, providing the techniques that enable you to stay consistent, regardless of, oh, you know, today it's it's cooler, today it's it's warmer. Yes, you have to approach things a little bit differently for different conditions, but being able to have that consistency of purpose and making sure that's what drives your decisions so you can adapt to those variable conditions.

Ali 17:14

I've been reading a lot about the power of subtractions, which is sometimes probably the best solution is actually not to add more things to do, is actually to stop doing certain things. Does that also apply to consistency?

Michael 17:34

Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, sometimes coaches, I'll say early career coaches, will try and you know push so much information at players or so much, do this, do this, do this. And you know, if you're taking up uh golf, you know, I think you know, golf coaches are notorious for saying, well, do this, keep your shoulder this way, have your hips this way, and we can overwhelm people with the information. So subtraction, very important. And again, I think of these a lot of these things as distractions from what is critical in our focus. And the focus may simply be at a point in time in the competition, breathe. Take some deep, mindful breaths, empty your mind, and breathe. It could be as simple as that. So I think, yeah, subtraction, you know, good coaching isn't necessarily adding more, but it's knowing what to eliminate, what's not adding value, what's getting in the way, what's distracting from what we need to focus on to perform at our best.

Ali 18:32

When you coach clients now, and what is occupying their minds, you know, to help them be consistent and show up to work every day, doing the best that they can they can do and being the best they can be.

Michael 18:48

Yeah, most of them are motivated, so it's not a question of motivation, but it's maybe some it's the uncertainty. We talked at the beginning about, you know, there's a lot of uncertainty now, and how do I navigate through this? And my coaching to them, I mean, to simplify one element, is don't get overwhelmed by the uncertainty. What is it you can control, what is it you can influence? And too often we spend a lot of our mind share on that bigger area, the things we can't control and can't influence. So, yes, we need to be aware of what are those things, what is going on, but then very quickly trans transferring to how can I influence this? How what can I control? So it's really getting to you know what you can do, focusing on you know the process. And I, you know, you've mentioned elsewhere, I know, you know, not just the result, but what is the process? Trust the process. And so it's a similar kind of message. You know, there's a lot of distractions there, but focus on what you need to do, you know, to get the right result.

Ali 19:51

I as an individual I pay attention to when the leaders or people in general are under pressure and how they behave under pressure. Right. And I think that is a good place to look for for consistency. Have they behaved the same way we've known them to behave in normal times, then you know, uh and tough times. Is the tough time period a good test for consistency?

Michael 20:24

Absolutely. You know, that's stress testing and pressure testing, absolutely. So we want to create different patterns for them. So, first of all, the first step is always awareness. Are you aware when pressure is having this effect on either your feelings or your behavior? So we want to make sure there's awareness. Then being aware of what that triggers, then can we create an alternate path? Okay, so when you're feeling this and you normally do A, now what we want you to do is focus on doing B. So when you find yourself getting, you know, feeling stressed, feeling pressured, feeling upset, whatever it is, you know, what is that technique that they can then apply to break that pattern? And I do rely a lot on breathing, and it sounds very simple, but I'll tell you, many traditions for many thousands of years have talked is talked about the fo the power of breathing, and just you know, regulating your breathing. And if you calm your breathing and you know manage your breathing, that sets the tone often for your physical state and your emotional state. So it could be as simple as that.

Ali 21:31

Michael, I've today and and and and nowadays, I would say last couple of years or three years, we've been preoccupied with another change post COVID, which is AI. And but one thing that I've been going deep into the rabbit hole for when it comes to AI, it's it it is it's unmistakable effect and influence and threat. To identity. And then when we were just talking, I was thinking what is the link between consistency and someone's identity? I remember reading it's actually Hemingway's The Old Man in the Sea, I think, uh, when Santiago, despite all the troubles and he he stayed consistent in his purpose because that was linked to his identity. How do you see that? How do you see what I'm you know what I'm actually proposing as sort of a an idea?

Michael 22:37

This is a very deep and very good point. Because when you're consistent, the message it's sending to yourself is this is who I am. This is who I am. I'm not doing it for a reason other than this is who I am. I don't have to think about this. I don't have to motivate myself to do it. I'm doing this because this is who I am. So I absolutely believe that when you're consistent in some whatever type of you know action that is, that reinforces at a you know at a subconscious level, this is who I am and supports the identity. So I think again, you know, when we start to build those patterns, build those habits, you know, and that consistency starts to happen, I I for one find it very you know auto-reinforcing. You know, I do something, I know I need to do it, I do it, and then I feel good about doing it. You know, part of it is, yeah, I wanted to get it done, but part of it is that's who I am. So identity is one of the most powerful motivations that impacts people. And I think the ability to tap into that and to feel good about who you are, you know, the decisions you're making, the actions you're taking, you know, even aside from the outcomes, that sense of identity is very powerful.

Ali 23:50

How do you keep yourself consistent, uh Michael?

Michael 23:56

The short answer is I don't because that's who I become. You know, you know, I mean, I've been this has been something I've been cultivating for, you know, years, you know, many years now. Uh one of my influences, I had an uncle who served in UN peacekeeping forces around the world. He was with the the uh Canadian military, and he was a big influence on my life, and he was a very disciplined person. And he always used to say, you know, if you have discipline, you can do every anything. And so that was a real, that was an influence. But I think over time, just as I've you know started to develop these patterns and habits, it's you know, it's gotten to the point where it's become automatic. I don't even think about it. And I was fortunate in the sense when I was playing uh sports as an athlete, I like to say I was gifted because I was not gifted. And what I mean by that is the performers, the athletes who are gifted, they're naturally outstanding athletes. Sometimes they don't develop the habits, the patterns of hard work and application. Sometimes they try and get by an ability alone. But if you don't have those natural talents, you have to work harder. And me not being gifted, I had to work harder, you know, to be able to compete at a good level. So that was actually a blessing in that that helped to develop the traits and the patterns and the habits, you know, that really served that discipline and that consistency. So, you know, it's at this point, it's really it's more automatic. But, you know, if you can cultivate that, you know, early on, early in one's career, and I always coach young people around this, right? You know, it's the traits you develop now that are so important. It's not just, you know, the results you get, yeah, that's critical, but it's the traits you develop along the way, those will serve you for the rest of your life.

Ali 25:47

What you're talking here also touches on the idea that consistency is one assured way to build capability.

Michael 25:57

Yes, yes. Yeah. And it you know, it feeds into you know, your role and coaching leaders, you know, as leaders, the thing that kills them often is when their people don't think they're consistent. They can't count on them, they can't trust them, they're not credible, they don't know what to expect, right? That uncertainty undermines trust in a leader. If I'm going to trust you as a leader, then I have to be, I have to feel good and solid and certain that you will, you know, act in a certain way. You have certain values, you will, you know, you will you will behave in a certain way. And so leaders have to be very consistent because they're on stage 24-7. People are reading meaning into everything they say, everything they do, everything they don't say and they don't do. So leadership, you know, leaders being consistent is critical.

Ali 26:49

And I like that. And because we do, yes, you're right, we do look at the leaders all the time, and then whether they like it or not, they are on display. We are constantly interpreting if their actions and values and behaviors are aligned. And if they are not aligned, we create our own stories in our heads, and that's when troubles, you know, start to happen for leaders, because when the behavior is not aligned with the action, when the words are not aligned with the behavior, and then all of a sudden you've got a weak leadership, which can cause a lot of troubles for an organization.

Michael 27:35

Right. And Ali, it only takes one inconsistent act. You know, the leader does the same thing ten times, right? But the 11th time doesn't. What if people remember the time he or she didn't act consistently? And then they're not so certain anymore. What's he well, what's the leader going to be like? So again, leaders have to be very consistent to give people a comfort level. They know what to expect of this people they're entrusting.

Ali 27:58

So, Michael, what you're saying here is that there is a strong link between consistency and trust.

Michael 28:05

And trust, right, and credibility, yes. Because if as a leader, if I'm not consistent, I mean the the the you know, probably most extreme example, think of a leader who's prone to emotional outbursts, and you don't know if they're coming into the office one morning, if they're going to be calm and nice and smiling and friendly, or if they're gonna blow up. Well, that's very unsettling. That's very unsettling. So, you know, people need to have a comfort level and to see you as credible and to trust you. There needs to be consistency in that behavior.

Ali 28:34

Victor Frankel, uh, you probably read his book, A Man's Search for Meaning. Yes. Did talk about, I'm gonna probably butcher what he mentioned, but I think he talked about meaning comes from choosing one stance repeatedly, even when control is limited.

Michael 28:54

Right. And I think the point he's making there is you're not doing it conditionally. You know, you can't say, for example, this is my this is something I value, but it's conditional upon A, B, and C, because then it's not something you value. You know? So it's doing it even when the odds are against you, right? Even if you don't know if you can you can achieve it, right? But why are you doing it? Back to your earlier point, identity. You're doing it because that's who you are. And when we get to that level that you're we're doing things because if that's who we are, as opposed to it's going to lead to some outcome or some reward or something else, then we never have to motivate ourselves to be motivated. It comes naturally because that's who we are.

Ali 29:38

I like that. And I but I before I jump jump into a change management sort of lens, when I uh hear about consistency, and and I am a consistent person most of the time myself, mainly because again, uh it's come from discipline and it's become habits, and then these habits are cultivated over time, and so they become less cognitively taxing on me. Yes. Um so is the point that actually it is a good thing to be consistent on top of all the things that we talked about over the last you know half an hour or so. But it's actually good for the brain to be consistent.

Feedback Ego And Growth Mindset

Michael 30:24

Yes, I mean it's you know, the it it serves us at different levels, you know, and I should say, you know, to your your point you're you made there, there's consistency in our kind of day-to-day things. You know, I'm consistent, I brush my teeth in the morning, right? Many people are, right? So we're consistent with that. But the deeper consistency really when it comes down to is that sense of purpose. You know, what is our purpose? What are we trying to do? Who are we trying to be? What do we aspire to? You know, whatever that is. And maybe that's just being, you know, I want to be a good husband, or maybe it's I want to be a good, you know, father, whatever that is. But, you know, that sense of you know purpose, being consistent with that is the deeper level from the you know, the day-to-day, you know, the more basic things we need to do. But the principle is the same, you know, making sure we're reflecting on it, right? Making sure we're clear on what we want to do, how we want to be, and then having the feedback loop and not beating ourselves up. And maybe I should add this as a point, because often people are afraid of the feedback loop, Ali, because they beat themselves up. And my number one piece of advice is whenever you know you fail at something or you don't do achieve something, or you know, you're not consistent with something, the number one piece of advice is don't beat yourself up. Right? Basically, the question is, what can I do to improve? Whenever a mistake is made, and this is important for leaders of work too, ask two questions. What have I learned? What will I do differently next time? And whenever something happens that isn't ideal, a mistake, an error, just even performance that isn't at the level we need it to be, what have I learned? What will I do differently next time? And if we can reinforce that with people, reinforce that with ourselves. People avoid the question, though, because they beat themselves up. And that I find is the number one obstacle to improvement, that battle, oh, I shouldn't have done this. Oh, I'm such a bonehead. Why did I do this? Right? Don't beat yourself up. Use it as information. What have I learned? How can I do better next time?

Ali 32:28

Feedback is an interesting topic because again, going back to the idea of identity, feedback goes straight into if we really interpret it uh broadly, when I get feedback, sometimes I interpret that as a reflection of me and my identity, which is why it is difficult to listen to, which is why there's a lot in my head anyway, that's what I uh think about feedback. For example, I I need to think about feedback. I would need to hear I will only hear it if I know that y you come from the right intention. If I have a level of trust in you, you have a good idea about the exp the expertise and the field that I play in. I've seen you in action, you so you've been consistent. So there are a lot of conditions that need to be in a place for me to listen to feedback and and actually interpret it and translate it and act on it.

Michael 33:35

And ego is a big factor. Yeah, ego. And this is what often stands in our way. Our ego, we might have an identity, but we're insecure in our identity, and we see feedback might be a threat to our identity. So our default response is, you know, we'd have to defend or avoid it, as opposed to how can this help make me stronger. You know, and you've heard of the distinction between a fixed mindset and a growth mindset. Yeah. And, you know, if we have this fixed mindset, then all we can do is be knocked down. Feedback can only take away from you know how we view ourselves. But if we have a growth mindset, you know, we can acknowledge that we can improve and grow and get better over time. So egoism one of the big obstacles to self-improvement. And to be clear, leaders need to have strong enough egos to make hard decisions, right? To take risks, all of that. But the question, Ali, is are you in control of your ego or is your ego in control of you? That's the question.

Consistency In Change Communication

Ali 34:37

That is the question. And I want to shift gear now and being a little bit selfish, I awaken the business of change and adoption and communication and engagement. Change by nature brings uncertainty into an environment. And I've been thinking about this recently that consistency can be one of those factors that can create this level of safety in the workplace so people can actually focus on the change and understand it and make sense of it. And that consistency will come from the communication, from the behavior, leadership behaviors, from the learning opportunities we provide people, and it's not a straightforward task. What would be your advice to us in the business of change and communication when it comes to consistency, apart from obviously starting with ourselves is you know, as a as a good starting point. Right.

Michael 35:42

Well, I think with any change, we have to be consistent saying what is the change, why is it changing? Is it something that's outs totally outside of our control or not? Often within organizations, it's a you know self-initiated change. What are the potential downsides? What are the potential upsides? So consistent in our process of how we process change. And let me say that again, because that could be confusing. Consistent in our process of how we process change. So I think by instilling that in people, and I know when I'm dealing with organizations around strategic change initiatives, we spend a lot of time on the why. Why is this important? Why must we do this? What happens if we don't do it? You know, what's the downside if we don't? What's the upside if we do? So we have to be consistent in going through that process to really ingrain that the change is necessary or inevitable, and that the best outcome can only take place if we are proactive in looking at how do we either adapt to the change or how do we create the change, how do we shift the change, how do we influence it. So I think it's in the process, consistent applying the process to how we deal with and interact with change.

Ali 36:56

And I noticed that, Michael, also that I I do focus a lot on building capability in times of change. And because for me you can you can be as much as consistent as you would like to be in your messaging, but at the end of the day, when it comes to really what is happening in the workplace, I strongly believe that building one's capability is one fast way to build confidence and build that uh you know learning loop, which is yes, I can do this, meaning I'm safe to do this, and then I am able to do this, I am fine, my identity is not completely threatened by this particular change. And so, in that way, then consistency is one way of building capabilities over time. And so, how do you see learning and adopting of a new change? And and where does consistency play in that?

Michael 38:03

Well, I think the consistency is me again, a consistency of a process to help guide ourselves through the change we're dealing with. And okay, I'm faced with the change now and it triggers a process. Okay, and that might start with analysis on the front end, looking at the implications. You know, how do I make sure I'm protected through this? Because as you mentioned, you know, people go first to how could this affect me negatively? So we have to deal with that. So again, it's the process that we undertake. Have your processes, have your mechanisms, your triggers. What is it that triggers you to take what action or to make what decisions or to think in a certain way to help you deal best with a changing situation? So again, it's it's largely in our minds, largely in our heads. You know, if we do what we need to do in our heads and develop those patterns, have those consistent patterns so that if, you know, and I know with myself, if there's a a stress, you know, a situation comes up that is say potentially stressful or dangerous, I'd program myself to have a three-word mantra. Calm, focus, act. So something's going on. Oh, what does this mean? There's a big problem. Calm. Because I'm not going to be able to assess the situation unless I'm calm. Focus of all that's going on, I need to subtract, right, the things that are least relevant here. What do I need to focus on that's really going to make a difference? And then take action based on that. So that's just a simple example of how you know a pressure situation triggers a response, but that response was created intentionally and has been programmed over time. So now it becomes automatic in a pressure situation. I automatically think calm, focused, act.

Ali 39:46

I want to share with you an example or an observation, and then you can, I'm I'm happy for you to to critique it. I'm working a lot on AI adoption nowadays. And what I'm noticing, Michael, is that AI amplifies whatever conditions exist in the workplace. So for example, if the processes are inconsistent and fragmented, many businesses can get away with it in the past, but now they want to adopt AI and they want to bring AI systems into the workplace, AI immediately will either amplify well amplify whatever conditions you are in. It will amplify if you're inconsistent in your processes, it will bring it to the surface. And if you're consistent, it will also amplify that too. So in my head, then consistency here has become a strategic business imperative rather than just a behavioral one. And maybe business will come into terms with this. For example, there's a lot of talk around our data is not ready for AI. That is inconsistency on display because only AI can actually amplify how your data is fragmented. So in my head, I'm thinking there's going to be a huge shift from consistency as a behavioral imperative to consistency at a st at an organizational level in a strategic way of thinking about a business. Critique my thinking here and my observation.

Michael 41:33

Right. You know, the way I would describe, you know, what you start by saying is the more variability in the input, the more variable will be the output. And you know, unless we have focus on the input, then we can expect greater variability in the output, and that's not going to be as reliable. It's kind of like, you know, used to be said garbage in, garbage out. Yes. Yeah. So the input is very important. But and so consistency, but I put I think of it more as focus. You know, so there's got to be some focus and precision in the inputs. Because, you know, if we lack that focus and precision, things will be fuzzy, and then that leads to much more variable outputs. So I think, and when I've, you know, the people, and I'm certainly not expert in AI, but people I who I know who are, you know, very much into the into the world, and I would call experts, have talked about it's really important that the prompts, you know, the prompts you provide have to be very specific, very detailed. The more specific and detailed your prompts, the better the response you get on the back end. If you know input very general prompts or vague or imprecise prompts, then don't be surprised if you get a wide range of outputs on the back end. So there's a quite there's a matter of focus here and precision and being consistent in making sure we we you know ensure that those prompts, those inputs are precise and focused if we want to get better outputs. So I think the capability, while not perfect, the capability is there because there are a lot of examples of where, you know, using good specific prompts, people have gotten very valuable outputs. You know, no question about that. Not perfect, but very good. So I think largely it rests on us to make sure that quality of that input, we reduce that variability, the fuzziness on the input to get the more precise, the more relevant output.

Returning To Principles To Stay True

Ali 43:26

I love it. I'm joining this conversation, Michael. I am aware of time, and time with you always goes so fast. I uh I read something a while back and I kept it. And I want to read you this passage. I don't know who's written it, but it looks stoic, it looks like a stoic, you know, kind of passage. And I want to read that to you. And it says here what stands firm is not what never changes, but what returns to its principle. Principles again and again. The world moves, circumstances shift, noise increases. Consistency is not stubbornness. It is choosing repeatedly who you want to be when everything around you invites reaction. Not faster, not louder, just truer.

Michael 44:28

There is much wisdom there. I hope you find the uh source, the attribution. I'd like to know who that is. Yeah, I think there's a lot. You know, there's a lot, you know, we've kind of touched on some of those points, but I think there's a lot of wisdom there. And and I guess the you know, one of my a key point to leave people with is consistency, often where people's minds go first, is the idea of mindless repetition, doing the same thing the same way every time, almost like you're on autopilot. And there's much more to it than that. Again, it's that consistency of purpose. It gets manifested many different ways. It has to adapt given changing conditions, right? But it's really that consistency of purpose that that is is what we want to capture.

Ali 45:15

I love it. And I for me at the higher level, consistency is a level of intelligence that I aspire to have on a daily basis. So good to have you again, Michael, in my podcast, The Inner Game of Change. So good to see you after five years and uh you know past 100 episodes. How would people connect with you and where would they get your a copy of your book?

Michael 45:41

Sure. On LinkedIn, probably the best way, feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn and just mention that you saw this uh this podcast. Book is available through Amazon and yeah, uh audiobook as well. So look forward to connecting with uh with people on LinkedIn.

Ali 45:58

Thank you so much. Until next time, Michael, stay well and stay safe.

Michael 46:03

It's been a great pleasure. Thanks again, Ali.

Ali 46:05

Thank you.

Lev 46:08

Hi, this is ChatGPT. I have recently started adding my reflections to the conversations that Ali hosts on the Inner Game of Change podcast. My role here is simply to step back from the dialogue and reflect on some of the ideas that surfaced during the discussion and to connect them to wider thinking, research, and what we often observe inside organizations. Listening to Ali's conversation with Michael Cannock, one thing becomes very clear. The word consistency is often used casually in business, but what Michael describes is something much deeper. Michael Cannick speaks about consistency not as repetition, but as alignment. The alignment between intentions, decisions, and actions. When those three things move together over time, behavior becomes coherent. And when behavior becomes coherent, something important happens. People begin to trust what they see. Ali raised an interesting point during the discussion about leadership under pressure. Many people watch leaders most closely when things are difficult. That is when consistency becomes visible. Leadership research supports this observation. Studies from Harvard Business School and other leadership institutes show that predictability of behavior is one of the strongest contributors to trust in leaders. People want to know what they can expect from those in charge. Another powerful thread in the conversation is the relationship between change and consistency. At first glance, these two ideas appear to be opposites. Change suggests movement, while consistency suggests stability. But what Ali and Michael explore is that change actually becomes possible because of consistency. Change introduces uncertainty. Consistency provides the footing people need to move. In organizational settings, when leaders are inconsistent in their messaging, behavior, or priorities, people often interpret change as chaos. But when leaders are consistent in their purpose and process, change becomes something people can navigate rather than something they fear. Ali also connected this idea to capability building, which is an important insight. Capability does not grow through occasional bursts of effort, it grows through repetition in stable conditions. When organizations maintain consistent expectations, consistent learning loops, and consistent feedback, people gradually build confidence and skill. One of the examples mentioned during the episode is Toyota. The Toyota production system is often studied not because it introduces dramatic innovation, but because it demonstrates disciplined consistency in how problems are solved and improvements are made. Over time, that consistency produces extraordinary capability. Another theme that stood out in this conversation is identity. Michael Cannock explained that when people act consistently over time, they reinforce a message to themselves. This is who I am. That idea echoes the work of Victor Frankel, who wrote that meaning often comes from choosing one's stance repeatedly, even when conditions are uncertain. Consistency in that sense becomes part of identity. Ali then introduced an interesting modern dimension by bringing artificial intelligence into the discussion. His observation was that AI tends to amplify whatever conditions already exist inside organizations. If processes are fragmented or inconsistent, AI exposes that very quickly. If systems are disciplined and well structured, AI can amplify those strengths as well. This is a fascinating idea because it suggests that consistency may be evolving from a personal leadership trait into a strategic organizational capability. So stepping back from the conversation between Ali and Michael Cannock, one broader insight emerges. Consistency is not about resisting change. Consistency is about maintaining alignment while navigating change. In a world that is becoming faster, more complex, and increasingly influenced by artificial intelligence, that alignment may be one of the most important leadership capabilities we can cultivate. Those are my reflections on this episode of the Inner Game of Change. And Ali, thank you for another thoughtful conversation.

Ali 50:26

Thank you for listening. If you found this episode valuable, remember to subscribe to stay updated on upcoming episodes. Your support is truly appreciated. And by sharing this podcast with your colleagues, friends, and fellow change practitioners, it can help me reach even more individuals and professionals who can benefit from these discussions. Remember, and in my opinion, change is an enduring force, and you will only have a measure of certainty and control when you embrace it. Until next time, thank you for being part of the Inner Game of Change community. I am Ali Jama, and this is the Inner Game of Change podcast.