Wesley Bourque: On Tour w/ Logan Crosby, Industry Insights, Saturation & Storytelling, Noble & Cooley Drums

Welcome Massachusetts native, Wesley Bourque! Wes is currently the touring drummer for rising country singer/songwriter Logan Crosby. In addition to gigging and recording, he serves as Artist Relations for NY-based distributor/record label United Masters. In this wide-ranging conversation, Wes shares his journey from small-town New England to the move to Nashville in 2014. We dive into his early years working day jobs at well-known coffee shops, building relationships, and his thoughts on navigating perception and identity. He shares lessons from Broadway, prepping for fill-in gigs with and without charts, and high-stress playback realities including redundancy and backup plans. Wes dives into Noble & Cooley’s history and his personal connection to the company, plus touring highlights and challenges with Logan (including a van fire) and why story, narrative, and platform-specific content matter in today’s saturated music landscape. We hope you enjoy!

Chapters:
0:00 Intro
1:51 Welcome, Wes! 
2:17 Broadway Connections 
9:10 Ableton/Playback Stress 
18:24 Noble & Cooley Origins 
29:13 Unexpected Event Planning 
30:14 Full Circle Maddie & Tae 
33:03 Rezo Custom Drum Heads (Sponsor) 
34:07 Networking & Coffee Shops 
36:08 Breaking Out Of Labels 
39:31 Artist Relations and Marketing 
45:28 Saturation and Storytelling 
50:28 Drum Box (Sponsor) 
51:11 Marketing For Musicians 
55:46 Subbing Prep (Charts vs Memorization) 
1:00:37 Japan Fly-Date Story
1:07:45 Iconic Fills and Pranks
1:09:58 Low Boy Beaters (Sponsor) 
1:11:12 NAMM Lessons and Trade Shows 
1:24:04 Drum Supply (Sponsor) 
1:25:06 Landing Logan Crosby Gig 
1:29:13 Tour Life and Van Fire 
1:37:31 Advice for Younger Drummers 
1:44:48 Whiskey Jam Wobble 
1:48:44 Platform Content Strategy 
2:00:20 Handling Mistakes During a Show 
2:03:34 Music City Audiology (Sponsor) 
2:04:25 Guitar Hero Drum Lore 
2:05:42 Rapid Fire Questions 
2:14:52 Outro

Thank you to our Episode Sponsors:

Rezo Custom Drum Heads
https://rezoheads.com

Drum Box
https://drumbox.space

Drum Supply
https://www.drumsupply.com

Low Boy Beaters
https://lowboybeaters.com

Music City Audiology
http://musiccityaudiology.com


Connect with Wes:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bourquechop/

Music Featured in this Episode:
"So Damn Free" - Logan Crosby
"A Parking Lot Far Away" - Logan Crosby

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

If you're a good personality and you have your shit together playing with us, just take some time. You'll eventually get there. That's kind of the only thing you can do.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Welcome to episode 89 of the National Drummers Podcast. Today, Nate and I have the great pleasure of sitting down with longtime friend Wesley Burke. Wes has been the touring drummer for Rising Country singer-songwriter Logan Crosby and is also artist relations for distributor and record label out of New York, United Masters. This is honestly one of my favorite conversations to date, and not because we talk in-depth about drumming or gear even, though of course we discuss all of that, but Wes shares some really fascinating stories and anecdotes from his life that touched on the industry and relationships at large, not just being a drummer. We talked a lot about perception in this town and positive mindsets to working day jobs and strategies for networking and landing bigger gigs. We discussed how to become more valuable to an artist at a camp and his theories as to why some artists make it and others don't. We also get into the world of playback and handling high stress situations. It's how you can use social media and content to really level up your career. A reminder if you haven't already got your tickets to this year's Music City Drum Show happening July 18th and 19th, you can use our code NDP for 10% off tickets. We hope you enjoy episode 89 of the National Drummers Podcast featuring Wesley Burke.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

That's

Welcome, Wes!

SPEAKER_03 1:51

why we got two plans. That's what we're going for, yeah. Between one and two and one fern and a sonar kit. Yeah, I feel that.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

One fern in the sonar, there it is. One fern in the sonar.

SPEAKER_04 2:03

Well, brought to you by we call that's uh we call that an industry plant, you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Ah Fernie, what are you doing about this? It's taking us until now to come up with that term. Weekend at Fernie. Man, this is this

Broadway Connections

SPEAKER_01 2:17

is gonna be so fun. I'm oh yeah, I'm looking forward to this because yeah, we don't really know your back. I mean, I we've got learned today. We've you know, we've seen you at the drum show. I think that's is that where you guys met?

SPEAKER_03 2:26

Yeah, we well, it's funny. I've seen you we've all seen each other around. Yeah, as as we're every time I'm on Broadway, I see you usually like a window open and you just crushing it. Kid Rocks, maybe you play Kid Rocks a lot.

SPEAKER_04 2:41

I do I was playing there a good bit, uh probably HTC now, if you if the windows open, seeing me. Yeah, yeah. Nudies too. That was that was I was there for a minute. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:51

And I well, your hair it's your hair.

SPEAKER_04 2:52

Yeah, I don't have a lot of hair.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

It's hard. So it's always, you know. It's hard to miss. You got great hair though. Well, what I have. What I have, it's you know, it's not the the blessing I got. It's what I'm what I'm dealing with. Sure, sure. But yeah, I feel like that's always the drum show is where we first connected, and then uh I don't know, just internet. It's it's hard to like keep in touch with people through real life, but you gotta. It's like just to know what they're about. Yeah, it's it's better to better to do that than not.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

What is real life? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

Is the internet not real life? Well, uh, contrary to popular belief, it uh sometimes is, but with AI, we can't tell.

SPEAKER_04 3:29

That's true. That's maybe the best and most accurate take I've had heard on that.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

Uh it's scary, but it's kind of cool. I mean, I just had uh a buddy of mine make a whole music video, just it took him like 30, 30 hours. Looks sick. It's a music video for his single that he released, and you know, budget-wise, didn't cost him a lot of money, but it I mean you kind of can't. I mean, you can tell, yeah, but it's also like looks fantastic. So it has like a promotional tool. Awesome, and is I don't know, kind of everything else, I guess how deep you get into that. Yeah. Could be really great, I think.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Yeah, but yeah, I mean, are you playing on Broadway much? No, I'm not not as much. Um I'm trying to maybe more. And I was going to, of course, tonight at uh well, 1230 club, which is I guess technically Broadway, but it's not a typical Broadway. Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

I I had a uh kind of not a like two to four times a month. I was playing with a buddy who he's one of my best friends in the world. Do you guys know AJ Cross? No, he's a familiar. He's an artist, but he's um for a long time he was doing demo, like a ton of demo work around town, and he became kind of like the guy. Like there was one top guy that basically retired and said, uh if you want to hire me, just everyone go to him. Wow. It's like not a bad, you know, that's not a bad spot to be in.

SPEAKER_04 4:49

Yeah, that's a great spot to be in.

SPEAKER_03 4:50

Um, but he kind of pivoted out of that now, doing the artist thing. But that's he he was like my gateway into quite a few things in the town. So I moved to town in 2014 and I met him like 10 days after I moved to town. And then we weren't even playing a lot together at that point, but he introduced me to my wife. Yeah, uh, we've just been like best friends forever. So thanks, AJ. Appreciate you.

SPEAKER_04 5:13

Wow, yeah. So what else? Wife, wife is enough. That's enough information, but what else?

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Well, um he is so like oh, there's a lot to cover, I guess, on that. So I mean with AJ.

SPEAKER_04 5:28

Yeah. AJ is a good one. We got a few minutes here.

SPEAKER_03 5:31

Yeah, we got a little, you know, let's wind it up. Um, but no, I mean, AJ has had an interesting journey, just his himself. Like, we've we've done some showcases together, but Broadway's a great example of like how he kind of cut his teeth as a performer. I mean, if you saw the very first show that we did versus like the one that we ended on, it's not even the same guy. But that's you know, I know everyone has a different take on Broadway, but it's made me better at a lot of things over the years. Yeah, sure. And you know, it's a it's it can be rigorous, you know. It's like when you go into the military, they train you hard so that you can do whatever you got to do at a high level.

SPEAKER_04 6:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

And I mean, four hour shows or eight hours, you know, doubles. Like that's a whole lot.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Yeah, I like that comparison. We haven't heard that much. Yeah, Broadway is military.

SPEAKER_03 6:17

Yeah, welcome to basic training. Yeah, pretty much, yeah. Yeah, it's I mean, in some ways it is. Uh, I remember some of the struggles. Drop down and give me a shuffle. Faster. Some of the struggles I ran into um not used to playing like that long, yeah. Getting some cramps on my leg, you know, like at four on the floor for for four hours, you know, basically like after after that, like staying hydrated, learning like what to do and what not to do for your for your body.

SPEAKER_04 6:45

Yeah, you know, it's your right butt cheek that will just that will just tell you that you are not in the condition yet after a lot of four on the floor. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

You know, and some of that could be physical shape too, because I mean like you guys are both in shape, but like I was in better shape in 2014 than I am now, you know, when I first moved it, you know, just like having kids, sometimes just, you know, I gotta get back on track. But you know, yeah, I think that uh, you know, sometimes cramping was part of it is leg, and sometimes we've all had like the oh your finger kind of locked, you know, like if you're just hitting too hard for I mean it could be for a lot of reasons, not that you intend to, but sometimes just you know, your monitors aren't right and like you're you know, you're not hearing yourself correctly, so you just you start hitting harder because just that's what you feel like you need to do.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:31

Uh I've had that happen before, you know. But we try to get out of that though as quickly as you can. Yeah. You know, when you get the monitor guy, like symbols, symbols are too loud. You know, you're like, oh yeah, I'm sorry. Thanks for your feedback. Appreciate it. No, you know. But anyways, long story short on that, AJ kind of pivoted out of that, so I don't play as much down there anymore. But that's fine. You know, we just every now and then I get you get a call, kind of fill in, you know. Let me know if you guys.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Hey, that reminds me. Thanks for the call. With um I did that Utah wedding that you threw my name out there for. How was that? It was interesting. It was it was super fun. The guys are great. That's good. I I just met all those guys like the day of basically, the or when I flew in.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

That's great for a wedding in Utah, I can go either way.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

It was a Mormon wedding.

SPEAKER_03 8:12

It was really yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

I actually I'd never been to, you know, there was like a bar, which I thought was a bar, but it was just like fruit water.

SPEAKER_03 8:20

What kind of fruit? What are they doing?

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Uh strawberries, I don't know. The point is it wasn't alcohol. Yeah, was that's the point.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

And it wasn't caffeine either. It wasn't caffeine. No, no, that's but that's part of this experience.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

It's not a to tie it into Broadway. I mean, it was basically a Broadway set, and it was like a lot of just okay, we've never rehearsed this song as a group, and now we're playing it in front of a uh a wedding party. It's a little bit of a high pressure scenario. Yeah. Granted, they're already married, so you know, you couldn't scrub that that badly. Well, look, here's the play for you guys you guys are both awesome players.

SPEAKER_03 8:50

So, like, anyone that wants to call you, thank you, do it. Like you guys, I trust you guys both with like everything. You're gonna be fine at everything. Like, call you. You're fine, you're gonna do good.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Especially Nate and Ableton, right, Nate? Because by now, at this point, once his airs, you will have been a master. Right. Maybe. Yeah, putting that out into

Ableton/Playback Stress

SPEAKER_01 9:11

the case. Oh, it's like a well, it's like a running gag on this show. It's like he's just anti-Nableton. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:17

I'm just yeah. I like playing the drums. I hear you. I just like playing the drummer. And I am uh slow to acquire other skills. I got it. Um that's that's the that is the most succinct way I can I can put my Ableton situation. But I am I will I'll get around to it eventually. I just literally at this point in my career, I don't have a reason to be messing with it.

SPEAKER_03 9:45

I I'm gonna lay a couple scenarios on the table, and I feel like this is gonna connect with you guys. Hit me. Okay. Here we are. Mystery show 9000 that we've showed up to that, you know, you get a quick call for. Can you run Ableton? Yeah, I can press, you know, we can figure it out like real quick.

unknown 10:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:02

And then you get there, everything's fine, but the riser is a little wobbly. You know what I mean? Like the bouncy drum riser. Sometimes maybe it's like as you're kind of rocking a little harder, riser starts kind of bouncing a little bit. And I'm speaking, this is a real scenario.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

I was just gonna ask. Yeah, this is getting very specific.

SPEAKER_03 10:20

So but this has happened multiple times. Just this one went a little far on. Okay, keep keep going.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

I'm I'm interested.

SPEAKER_03 10:26

And I thought the artist was great, uh, super talented people, the music was really cool. The gig went almost perfect, except for I kept having to I didn't have like a compute, like a laptop stand. It was like drum case laptop, and I thought that would be fine. But since the thing was rocking and rocking, you know, it's I'm not seeing laptop kind of go to the left off the stage, basically. Damn. Um caught it. I caught it, but the whole thing is like you're you're trying to play at a high level first time you're approaching this whole thing, but you're also leaned over.

SPEAKER_04 11:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

And you're literally holding it. You're literally holding it because it just keeps skating on you. Like you can't so frustrated at that. Um, and that's something you kind of you can't always really help because if you have like two laptops and you don't have to really worry about it, or you can control it with something else.

SPEAKER_04 11:19

Yeah, is it okay? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

We do that uh still because you know we have two the way that we run our show, we have two laptops, which I'll I'll tell every artist I work with. Like, if you're going, if you're gonna make tracks a part of your thing, if you don't have two computers, you're you're really taking you're taking a big risk.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

And you're you and you mean like an essential part of the show, not just like there's click, but like there's tracks playing front of house. Yeah, if that was cut out, it would be noticeable kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 11:54

Well, you know, also too, some of that can hinge on like the front of house engineer. Like, if the front of house can can mix the band more forward than the tracks, then we've had it go out and like everyone's like, oh, I didn't even didn't even know. Yeah, like had no idea it was out. Right. But if it's the opposite and like there's huge segments of the song that like nobody's playing, you know, it's just like track intro, track, track, you know, massive tracks here, then obviously you go out, that's that's pretty much a wrap, you know. Yeah, or there's no bass player. Right, you know, it's like that's why having a bass player is I mean, it's one of the reasons having a bass player is important. But like if that stuff ever cuts out, man, it's it's it's a real risk. Like we've had the because you're gonna get the 215 slot in the middle of the festival, sun is 300,000 degrees, you that computer's you know checking out after chorus one. You know, we've had it. Yeah, every we've all had it happen.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

Um actually last year it happened, but it's still it was fun. Like, we you know, you should hopefully have it set up if you can, so that if that ever happens, like whatever, no worries. Like, we all know the songs, we're rocking, right? You know, yeah, we can get through it. Wow, I can play without a click. Oh my gosh, it's amazing. You guys are actually didn't know I could fly free. Yeah, and sometimes I hate to say it, but like sometimes when that has happened, like the whole band has actually had more fun, you know. Like, we're like, wow, like we all sound great. We're kind of like, you know, the railings of the bowling alley have kind of gone down. I'm like, wow, I actually got a strike on my own. This is great. Exactly. Yeah, the bowling alley.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

You know, that's so good, man. It's like you appreciate the coin.

SPEAKER_04 13:32

I'm just saying, yeah. That freedom is nice, huh?

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Well, and you've seen like the From Studio to Stage YouTube channel. No, you know who that is? No, he's got like he's like the number one like playback, like breakdown tutorial videos of like how to get started, very easy to digest content, but also like more advanced. But along those lines, because you're talking about redundancy, of course, but having two laptops, yeah, like the exact same laptop. And some people you know don't understand that they have a backup laptop, which is probably still better than nothing, but that's not exactly the same as redundancy, and it might not actually work great. But he recommends getting, and I maybe want to get your thoughts on this or from your camp uh with Logan, of course. Um, he recommends getting like you don't have to get like the most expensive spec'd out MacBook. If we can have two, you can just get like two like MacBook Airs. Like they don't have to be.

SPEAKER_03 14:19

I do have perspective on this.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Yeah, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

So there's a couple factors that have gone into play that we have so a lot of I mean basically for a long time we were all using like our personal computers, you know, like until an artist gets to a level where like now they own all the gear. Sometimes it's just how you know, oh yeah, Ableton, I'll run it on my computer. So there's a little risk in that, in that like on your own computer, you could have like a ton of other stuff, you know, programs or or editors.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Your calendar goes off and it has a reminder in the middle of the show, or something crazy.

SPEAKER_03 14:52

Yeah. Okay. I've had it happen. You know, like, or if someone gets a like a FaceTime call, shh, I've had it happen where you're like mid-song and like ding ding dude. Yeah, I've had it happen. Where I'm like, look, I can do a lot of things, but you know, I can't stop a call and keep you know, it's like this real quick, actually. I have one man. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my mom. Yeah, it's going great. Um still in the middle of it. Let me call my guitar player's aunt back real quick. Hold on. Um but the MacBook Air, we were looking into this, and there's nothing wrong. Like uh I was playing at the time with Thompson Square, yeah, and they had one MacBook Air. That was their they didn't have they never had when I was with them, uh, a redundant rig, and it worked fine. There was no problems. Uh but I did, we were reading into it, and the difference between like a pro and an air is I mean, there's a few differences, but essentially like one has a fan and the other one does not. So sometimes it could be where you're playing. If you're just doing arenas and it's not like super hot or like indoor, yeah, you know, not everyone does a I don't I barely ever play those.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:57

Um then you should be fine. But if you're doing like a lot of outdoor stuff, then you might want to consider one with a with a fan.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

That's a good point.

SPEAKER_03 16:05

You know, yeah. If you can afford it, I mean it's all about what you can afford.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

I've actually uh it's funny you mentioned the fan. This is maybe probably not as uh helpful, but I've they make like those like gamer separate fans you can plug in from Amazon. We're talking like 30 bucks. You plug it into the port of the MacBook and it cools the laptop to a certain stand? I think some of those are the same. We had a stand at one time where it like is really just like a pad, it's like a plastic pad. Okay, but it works, and probably very similar to that. There's all different like rotations and speeds of some of these.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

Or you can just dunk it in ice water.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Pre-show ice, yeah. Immediately cool it out.

SPEAKER_03 16:38

Pre-show ice, yeah. No, um, but that is, you know, if you're doing buy once, cry once. If you can, you know. That's it say it again. Buy buy once, cry once. Yeah, I love that. You know, the like that's what I did when I I've had my drums now for I think 2000, 2002 is when I got my yellow noble and cooley CD maples. You got that. I can't wait to talk about that. Well, um, you came to the right place. No, uh I bought it because I don't know, like uh when I was before I bought a kit, I was also into like riding dirt bikes and and quads and stuff like that. And in the area that I grew up in, there was a lot of that. Like you could do it very easily. In some areas you camp in good old Southwick, Massachusetts, like we have a national motocross track in the town. So the culture was always really there. But the whole point is like um, you know, you can kind of see, you know, when you're ready for something, and I and I got this also from teaching drums for a little while too, and working at music stores and like the life experiences. Like, if you let's say have a guitar, you know, I used to see a lot of people come in, oh, I'm gonna buy my son his first guitar, but we're not really sure if he wants to like do it, so we're not gonna spend a ton of money. So you you buy like the world's worst guitar and you're like it's cheap, but like nothing performs correctly. It doesn't, it doesn't allow you to play the instrument correctly. And if you could just get like something a little bit above that, like they might actually be excited about it. Like, oh wow, I can this actually sound great.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Proper technique, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

Same thing with drums though, like if you're gonna do it professionally or even semi prof pro, you know, having something that just sounds great is gonna inspire you as a player. So

Noble & Cooley Origins

SPEAKER_03 18:24

yeah, the very first drum that I got that really, really taught me all that was the Noble and Cooley Alloy Classic. It was it. I had a premier Cabrio set that at the time I was super into 311. So nice. I mean, and still am. I mean, Chad. Crank it. We just missed 311 days. Awesome. Yeah. Um, which by the way, just a couple of days ago, uh, two weeks ago actually, Nick Hexham was was driving around or just walking around the street. I remember driving by, I'm like, you know, you do like a double take. Right. Like, that's that's Nick Hexham's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 19:01

But anyways, so his snare, like roll your window down and and yell some 311 lyrics.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

Yeah, are you down, bro? Um I remember like when I was trying to figure out how to play, I would always try to get the sound that they had. Like 311 was the most like you can't mistake that snare drum. Totally. So I remember one day I was like, oh, I think I got it, you know, and I'm playing, and like all of a sudden it started to sound really dry, like no ring at all. I'm like, man, I didn't change this at all. It's weird. Trying to tune it, nothing happened. And I flipped the snare around, and the whole side of the snare had crumbled, just caved in. I didn't even see it from the top, but like on the bottom. And I'm like, oh, I think it's time for something I can crank and not to worry about it. So that's when I got addicted to Noble and Cooley drums. Really?

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Shout out Noble and Cooley.

SPEAKER_03 19:54

Yeah. They but there's even more of a story there. Like it's um, if you want to hear it. Oh, and we do. Oh, yes. So my I have a history with Noble and Cooley that goes back a long way. Um, namely because they were the factory where they build these is in the town next to where I grew up. Right. So they are in Granville, Massachusetts. Yes, that's right. They are. And even though they were there, like if you're just coming up through the ranks on any instrument, you're not gonna know like all the boutique companies right off the bat.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 20:28

And I remember some guy had like a Noble and Cooley kit that he wanted to like sell. And I called a local music store. I'm like, hey, I never even heard of this brand. Like, is this a good brand? The guy was like, dude, who are you? Yeah, like you should you should definitely buy this if you can. Long story short, I didn't buy that one, but it made me realize, like, oh, these are actually really good.

SPEAKER_04 20:48

But and for those who don't know, Noble and Cooley is literally the first drum builder in the US. Those drums that they were using in the Civil War were actually Noble and Cooley drums. They were. Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_03 21:01

I have a tulip wood solid shell snare snare right now. Tulip is what they used often in the uh the Civil War marching drums. It's native to that area. Um great tone. I really like that drum like a whole lot. But there's some, I mean, you know, they use the same machines today that they used to use back in the day, like steam bend the wood. It's a cool process. And over the years I've gotten to like go up and help them occasionally with like steam bendings, you know, like no kidding. Yeah, that's cool. It's it was like, you know, but the other part of that is uh the owners at that time, the part of the family, because it it it for 160 years, I think it was family owned, and then eventually they sold. But um the kids of the family who owned it went to my high school. Wow. So they like the Jones family is that that was the family that owned it. They took me to my first drum clinic. It was like Will Will Kennedy and Bob Gatson. And that was like your first. That was yeah, it's a good place to start.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:04

Um it was it was life-changing. Really, it was like I I don't know if they know how inspired inspired I was after that. Like seeing such high-level players before internet. Well, before you could like before YouTube. Yeah. Before you could just look up, you know, a 12-year-old doing things that like most of us can't.

SPEAKER_04 22:24

Even so, but nothing replaces seeing that in person. Even the coolest YouTube video is nothing compared to sitting in front of a great player and experiencing that.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

You gotta highlight what you just said because that's yeah, it's so much of like you need to go out and see it. That's why I feel like a lot of people panic over AI, yeah, yeah. But I'm like, listen, I don't I don't care how much into society it gets, humans want a human connection with humans. So that's real intelligent. Um, but I'm saying like you know, the the profound I've had a couple of concert experiences that like will stay with me forever. Yeah, and they don't have to be in massive arenas, but like they're so impactful. Uh I'm sure we all have yeah. I want to hear about some of yours too, because I have some I'm gonna share too. Um but anyways, long story short about Noble and Cooley is being around that and growing up and seeing, you know, some of what they did gave me an idea about like what drums could be. Yeah. So in 2002, right after high school, I was like ready for you know the bite the bullet to buy once and cry once. And I bought 10, 12, 14, 16, and uh eight 18 by 22 kick. And I've never like I wanted other finishes, like, oh yeah, this is cool, but like I've never ever needed anything. Like that's lasted for every kind of gig I I've ever been hired for, probably ever could get hired for, really. Yeah. You know, a couple toys here and there are fine, but uh, I've never needed anything else. Yeah, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

You're saying you have a good solid foundation.

SPEAKER_03 23:56

Every occasionally I'll buy another scenario. My wife's like, I thought you never needed anything else.

unknown 24:00

Hmm.

SPEAKER_03 24:01

That's funny.

SPEAKER_04 24:02

Yeah, but they just did they just did uh, you know, the another Zildjian alloy one, so I need uh I need that.

SPEAKER_03 24:09

Funny story about that. Um my buddy John, who is one of the family, you know, one of the one of the family members of Noble and Cooley, had one of those snares and it cracked. I think he dropped it. Oh, brutal. And I don't, it's you know, you could see him biting his lip to try to hide, like pull back the tears.

SPEAKER_04 24:28

I'm like, oh that's enough. That's everybody. That's um Jay, right?

SPEAKER_03 24:34

Uh so yeah, there's Jay as the owner or was the owner, and John was his son. Okay. And funny enough, the one of the people that took over, Nick Jones, is an incredible craftsman, but he he was actually a bass player. So but I mean he understood, he knew drums. But anyways, yeah, long history with those guys.

SPEAKER_04 24:51

That's awesome, man. I I actually I went to the Nam show with them in like 2000, that would have been like 2005. Uh-uh. I was a kid. My my dad, his business partner grew up with Jay. That's so that's so random. So we're like, we're gonna go to Nam, and we're like, I got to go and hang out with them and obviously hear those just sit at that booth and hear people play that kit. And I've obviously played those beautiful kits, and they're just such incredible drums. Yeah. Um, but yeah, fantastic. They're they're some of the best in the game. Period.

SPEAKER_03 25:25

You always get a look too, you know, and that's not that I super cared about like that, but like it is cool when somebody that knows drums are like, uh, you've got that. And you're like, oh, oh yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

Well, uh, maybe you agree too. Like typically, like, if someone that has that kit is probably a player, right? I mean, that's not that's not like a kit you buy if you're not really doing much, or if you're not like advanced on the on the instrument, like that's a very purposeful, intentful purchase.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

You always hear like you've heard more of those drums than you realize. Like, even um, there's a studio in Westfield, Massachusetts called it's called like mainline recording studio now, but it used to be called Zing. That's where they did the majority of like the kill switch engage records, you know, and they had a house noble and coolie kit there, a beautiful red one. And that kit made it on a ton of that stuff. Like, you know, they've probably sampled stuff here and there too, but like, yeah, they it's been on a ton of stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:20

Um Phil Phil Collins' main snare was a noble and coolie. Yeah. Was that really? Yeah, but I even at uh one year I went and they had they had it set up in the Pearl Booth was one of the upstairs when the booth was up there, and it they had his actual kit and the noble and coolie. And I was like, there it is. I always heard that it was, and there it is.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

The wheel the uh the wallflowers one headlight snare, yeah. Noble and coolie. Yep, uh, a couple other like you know super famous ones that I can't think of like off the top of my head, but like, yeah, trust me folks, you've seen it. Yeah, you've heard it, you've heard it, you've felt it. Do they normally come to the drum show? Um, they they usually have people there, yeah. Uh and the drum show has grown a lot too. So, like, you know, sometimes as things grow, like comp more and more companies uh come on. Maybe they'll come this year. I'm not entirely sure, but um they they were out in person last year.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

Yeah, I gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

So one of the people that is now one of the craft builders, I forget his first name, but he had a booth there, Para Drums. Okay. I believe it was Para. Okay. So he like through that relationship, um, they've he's now like crafting some of their drums as well. So cool. Yeah, it's a good thing to be at the Nashville drum show. Yeah, City Drum Show.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

We'll be there again. Uh if you haven't gotten your tickets yet. By the time this comes out, maybe you'll have a few months. Uh use the code NDP for 10% off your tickets.

SPEAKER_03 27:42

Do you know JC Clifford is the guy? He is, yeah. He is one of the best dudes. They're the power couple. They I met him before I moved to town, probably 2011, I want to say it was, maybe 20. There was a drum clinic up in Connecticut, and he came up and you know, just he was working for a different company, and he was just the best guy. Yeah. So we've just known each other for that long now. And he had this bold idea to start a drum show, and I'm like, do it. I mean, he didn't consult me on it, but like I was super happy to see that he did it. Because now it's like this cool thing.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Oh, it's massive now. It's it's arguably the show. Yeah. You know, yeah. That plus like the main basic, like bigger scale.

SPEAKER_03 28:19

You gotta charge your social battery before you go in. Oh, yeah. And it's I guess your earplugs, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

I mean, yeah, it's loud. Dude, it's we're gonna we're gonna be in the new the quiet area. We're gonna see how that goes this year. Which is somehow it's the quiet areas where the clinics are happening, also. So see how that works out. It'll be fine. But yeah, I think like obviously once I think that'll be good because then everybody will be there for the clinics, clinical and then everybody's gonna be by the booth.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

So yeah. You you guys are gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

They've thought that out. So it's gonna be cool.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

Are you doing interviews there? Yeah, we will.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

We bring it every year.

SPEAKER_04 28:51

Yeah, yeah. I want to figure out a way to do it to mess with it a little bit this year.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

Yeah, we're always thinking of how do we kind of up it, take it up a notch.

SPEAKER_04 28:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

Fire.

SPEAKER_04 28:59

So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

Fire. Yeah, we're thinking of that. You know, fire, sparklers. Um, you know, just we'll talk after. Yeah, we'll talk after. We'll consult you or you're gonna build our booth for us. That'd be great.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

I mean, you know,

Unexpected Event Planning

SPEAKER_01 29:13

we know you do events event planning, and we'll get we'll have to get into that as well. The wedding business.

SPEAKER_03 29:18

Yeah, that's I mean, I've been kind of roped. That's one of the unexpected turns that like Nashville will bring you in a cool way, you know. So if anybody out there is considering a move to Nashville, I can firmly say that you should have no expectations of pretty much anything. But that's that's kind of the best thing. Like, do you really want to know how this all goes? No. You want to know how this ends up?

SPEAKER_04 29:41

I love finding out as it's happening. Well, that's cool. That happened.

SPEAKER_03 29:44

Yeah, I love I love getting a paycheck. Like, oh, I guess I'm gonna be able to pay that bill this week. That's sick.

SPEAKER_04 29:49

Yeah. You get to you get to continually be grateful rather than being like, yeah, this is what I expected.

SPEAKER_03 29:54

It's true. Yeah, it's a weird journey, but like, you know, everything's has ups and downs, but um the wedding planning part of it came in through my my wife who went to school for like event planning, and one day uh she just decided like you know, she's always wanted to do it. And there's a couple of full circle moments

Full Circle Maddie & Tae

SPEAKER_03 30:14

in this. Um and that's I'm sure you guys have some cool like full circle moments too. But one of mine, just to backtrack really quick, the very first trip that I took to Nashville, um, I think this was like 2010 or 2011, somewhere around there. So I came to Nashville and I played this thing called the Billy Block Show. Do you guys know Billy Block? It was like Whiskey Jam before Whiskey Jam kind of. And Billy Block was this really charismatic, wonderful man who hosted a show, and it was at um I think the Mercury Lounge, second floor of Cannery, for like a long time. Wow. Uh he's since uh he was battling cancer and he and he passed away. But his actually his son, Rocky Block, is a really incredible songwriter uh over at Big Loud. So he's written probably 300 songs of Albert. But wow. The the very first thing in the parking lot, Maddie and Tay were walking in from you know, and they weren't they had me the song, yeah. Yeah, they just signed their deal and like hadn't really launched out of the gates, and they were so sweet. And I was like, Oh yeah, come on in, guys. Held the door. And I remember it was so cool to see them because that was the first time when I saw them play. I was like, my god, this is like this is the local talent.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

Yeah, this is just like a random Tuesday night.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

Like, I need to be here. Yeah, like this is I need to be at a higher level. Like, this is this is where I'm gonna be. It's just Maddie and Tay, you know, like just crushing it.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

Um, years later, in and out of this wedding thing, one of our best friends that uh was planning with us for a long time, Sarah, was cousins with uh Tay. And Sarah planned her wedding, but it happened to fall right in the middle of CRS, which is also where my wife works, which just happened this past week.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

It did, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:05

Um, and then so she couldn't do it. Sarah was in the wedding, so she couldn't do it. So like I had to be there, like her and Josh Kerr's day of coordinator to make sure like the whole thing ran smooth. So I was like, wow, what a full circle moment this is. Like I'm you know, wedding planner of the stars. Not really. Like you'll want my wife to plan it, but like maybe I'll be able to show up and always make sure always trust the drummer. I think is a reason that you're good at that. Well, we're on time, we're on time, you know. Schedule's gotta move. At least most of us.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Well, I mean, really for full circle, because of course now with Maddie and Tay doing their their farewell tour and Raven past guest Raven Pfeiffer has been uh playing drums on that gig. She's filling in the last few shows here.

SPEAKER_03 32:46

But they I don't know what they're gonna do, solo stuff, but they're gonna be like they're talented. They're I'm not sure about them. Like we'll still hear from them for sure. You know, that's not inside knowledge, I'm just like they're not gonna stop.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:58

Um, but yeah, that that's like a cool full circle moment that I've had since starting here.

Rezo Custom Drum Heads (Sponsor)

SPEAKER_04 33:05

Let's talk stage presence. Rezzo custom drum heads, powered by FDS drum services, is the easiest way to upgrade your look without actually, you know, practicing. Rezzo is what the pros are using on world tours right now. They've outfitted some of the biggest names in the industry because these custom heads are chip resistant, affordable, come in multiple finishes, and look incredible. Logos, photos, or that weird drawing your basis did. If you can dream it, Rezzo can print it. Plus, they've got five-star reviews, lightning fast turnaround, and they even do rush orders for you. Last minute legends. Stop settling for good enough and get a custom head that survives the road. Get a free t-shirt with your order at rezoheads.com. That's r-e-z-oheads.com. Use code ndpfam for a listener discount. That's ndpfam.

Networking & Coffee Shops

SPEAKER_03 34:07

Wedding planning is um, I don't know, it's kind of teases you a lot. Like working in the event world has connected me to people working, like finding random jobs since I've moved to town, not having a network, because now I've been here, you know, for what, 11 years. Um working at coffee shops really helped. No kidding. Really helped. Yeah. One in particular. Um Edge Hill Cafe, which is it's no longer here, but it used to be on Music Row. Do you know where Jack Brown's burger bar is? Absolutely. There that there's like a little corner. Now it's a jewelry store, but it that used to be like Music Row's cafeteria.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:46

So right before I moved to town, actually, um, I I kind of like hired Rich Redmond to because I was like, man, I know he's available. Like, you know, he has something about like, hey, you know, we'll do a lesson together. And I'm like, hey, I would love to take a lesson, but I really just want to hear about like what is it like here? What do I what do I do? Where do I go? And he had some great advice. I mean, it was basically like just go in, put yourself out and meet as many people as you possibly can. And if you're gonna get a job, work in a place where the industry goes and you'll meet everyone.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Yeah, it's probably not complicated. But you just have to have the you have to be smart about it, you know, be intentional about it.

SPEAKER_03 35:24

I feel like it's not complicated on the other side of it, but like when you're first yeah getting in, there's just like so there's a lot more than that burrito that you're like, I don't I don't know what that flavor is, but I gotta figure it out. Yeah, true. Um that's a weird analogy, but uh now I really want a burrito. You're like, oh, I'm not gonna say anything. But yeah, I mean that um Edge Hill Cafe was where like all the artists would go, all of the you know, the record labels, all the publishers, all the just everyone, everyone in the industry. So that's how my wife met all those people and ended up going into work for CRS. And when she left, uh, which is right when we met, um, I came in and worked for like two and a half years.

Breaking Out Of Labels

SPEAKER_03 36:08

And sometimes the the only the bad part no one really talks about is that like it's hard to get unknown for something, you know, like, oh, you're the coffee guy. Yeah, that's cool, man. How's it going? You're like, oh yeah, I am the coffee guy who moved here for a career. But wait, I'm serious about this. Yeah, like you know, but I'm actually like I can actually do something else, you know. So don't be afraid to like if you ever have to get in that situation, like it's better to know someone than not to know someone, but you can't always control like what people know you as.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

Yeah, that's that's good, man. You don't really know um how did you sort of what did you do, if anything, to kind of become, as you said, like unknown for a specific thing? Or did it kind of just happen naturally as you got more gigs?

SPEAKER_03 36:49

It did, but like so it you can run a fine line between uh telling people who you are and then showing them and then pushing it too hard, you know, like if they don't respond to you the way that you think, um, it's not that they don't know who you are, it just means that they might not need you like right then and there. But they know, you know, and then eventually, like I'm sure we've all experienced like people we met in the past, like, oh, I I totally forgot you do this, but like, hey, I need a thing, and then you're like, Oh yeah, I'm available. And that's kind of like it does take a little bit of time. Tenure town, we've all heard that, but like I just what really helped me is not putting any expectations on on the time because I didn't know. I don't know if 10 year, like I'm 11 years into a 10-year town, we're all still working, yeah. But like, you know, and I've been able to do some cool things that I've always wanted to do. Um but you know, it's like just being grateful for the opportunity to actually work has as a mindset, has has really helped me overcome like the terrible gigs that you get. Like, hey, I'm still working though, you know. Maybe doing like you know, I could have a consistent income and push numbers uh or something like that. And there's nothing wrong with that, but I think mentality is just key to like staying in because it's gonna take a while for some people and some people not. I mean, we've all seen that too. Yeah, you know, but you can't be happy for those people.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Yeah, that's that's good. I'll be honest. I mean, I've uh I mean obviously I I freaking love doing this podcast. It's probably the best thing that I've done in my life, uh, can honestly say, besides just being a drummer. But and I don't know if you've experienced this, like maybe more in the past year. I've been let's say uh let's say I know of this happened somewhere recently. I was at a coffee shop with a friend and like they knew some other musicians and they introduced me and they were like, Oh, this is Dan, he does a drummer podcast, which like is is sick. But like I started to think, like, oh, is that like that's the first thing I'm becoming sort of known for that, which you know I should be. We both should be. Yeah, but like, okay, wait, but I'm also I don't want necessarily want that to be the first thing. It's like I'm a drummer, I'm here to play the I'm here to be a professional drummer. Yes, I do a podcast, yes, I work for Pearl Drums, yes, there's other things to me. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 39:01

So it's I would say that all I'm saying is I relate to the yes, I'm the highest scoring rock band player of all time.

SPEAKER_04 39:07

My boy. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

You know what? That that's number one. Yeah, that's number one. That should be number one. I am number one.

SPEAKER_04 39:13

Yes, I'm handsome beyond belief. Well, that's all these things.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

To your point, I think like you can only control oh my god, perception. Like you you really can't control too much. Like we can go into more detail, but okay, well, like what am I posting on Instagram?

SPEAKER_03 39:26

It's me playing the drums, or it's like I'll give you another example that kind of goes into what you're saying.

Artist Relations and Marketing

SPEAKER_03 39:31

Is so I have more than one job. I play play the drums. I also am artist relations for a distributor and a record label out of New York called United Masters.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Yeah, very good. Yeah, I want to get into that for sure.

SPEAKER_03 39:45

And it's I really love the job, and it's my first industry job, but I I've learned man, so much working here. Just about how this sausage is made, you know. Um, but the point really quickly.

SPEAKER_04 40:00

Sorry, no, no, no, no, you're fine. I'm gonna yeah, keep going. Sorry, don't let me don't let me. I'm gonna ask a question about that.

SPEAKER_03 40:06

Yeah, you're fine, you're fine. Um proud of you, Nate. If I were to offer any kind of perspective on what you were just saying, yeah, hopefully it would be that people when people see you, they also know that you have a really deep understanding because you A, you know a lot of people doing this, and you're also you know a great drummer and I know that, but you could look on your page and see that too. Um but that's you know, it's kind of the same thing where like from a value perspective of like what can you bring to the table, I know a lot about the industry side now, which you know, some of those it's not an exact science, you know. Like there's a lot of music is culture, so you can't really always predict where culture is gonna go. And sometimes when you put something out there, this is not a name drop or anything like that, but over the past few days at CRS, um, I spent a few days with Ella Langley and her crew.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

Oh, so we just had Howie on.

SPEAKER_03 41:01

Yeah, he's oh yeah, so fun. He crushed that show. He's so good. I love seeing him play. Oh yeah. And that was the thing we were I was bringing up that Ella was like, you know, this whole LFL thing. I'm like, it kills me. It's so funny. LFL? Yeah, there's a there's a whole like there's a thing on like Instagram or maybe TikTok of people that look like they may not be into Ella Langley. And uh basically they just kind of like close off at the end and be like, I'm an LFL, I'm so excited, you know, like from choosing text is that whole single. It's like it's just a funny video to catch. Like maybe I could find one and send it to you, but I was like, Did you like did you put that out there? I'm like, it's hilarious. Like, no, it just like took a life on of its own. Right. But that was a really like that's an important thing to know, actually. Like, you know, sometimes you put things out there, even as a drummer, like you know, even like you you don't always get to choose what people know you as, or like what things happen when you put it out there and just let it go as music. Sometimes you can, yeah, so true. It can work both ways, but like typically, more often than not, probably not, right? Uh, which is interesting, you know.

SPEAKER_04 42:06

That honestly, that that worries me because I think I feel like I've said some dumb things. I'm like, man, I mean, especially on here. I've said some dumb thing, I've just said some dumb things. I'm like, well, my am I just gonna be known for this forever? And people are gonna be like, I've said, like, I've said things like, oh, I t I play a lot of notes. I'm like, is somebody gonna hear that and go, oh, he always plays a lot of notes. He doesn't know how to not chop. I'm like, I should probably be careful about how I communicate these things.

SPEAKER_03 42:32

I know, and it's frustrating because like well, it's honestly it's a valid question because even won't name anyone, but even recently, over the past week, I I saw some pretty, like, pretty well-known artists with bands that I'm not one to like just point a finger and critique everyone, but there was some like bad overplaying being done. Where like musically immature, that's what it felt like. Yeah, yeah, you know, where I could tell someone probably said, like, no, we gotta make it more exciting. And it might not even be the drummer's fault. Could be just like no man, we're gonna make this outro like 76 bars way longer than it needs to. You just gotta keep going. And you know, the guy's probably like, all right, well, my goodness, you know, right. So I I you don't really know where to point the finger at that. But yeah, if I were to, if I were like a band leader seeing someone play like that, I would assume, man, they probably overplay, they're probably not exactly the fit for like a lot of gigs. They might fit here. Um, don't worry about that.

SPEAKER_04 43:29

Fair. That's good, yeah. Fair. Well, I guess it's case. I don't think you should. It's kind of like uh it's kind of like watching the Star Wars prequels and being like, man, are these actors really bad? No, I've seen them in other stuff and they're really good. The directing was bad. Yeah. Like, but that's that's a little context, yeah. I want to know because you you as you said, uh, I kinda I see being on a little bit more on the industry side, you're getting to see how the sausage is made. Has that ruined the sausage for you? Or has it given you more of an appreciation for the sausage? Also, what's your favorite kind of sausage? Spicy Italian or muck?

SPEAKER_01 44:10

I thought we were talking about donuts this episode.

SPEAKER_03 44:12

Listen, we're in a sausage party now. We're gonna get to DR. You can join us. You can stay out of this.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

I'm here, baby.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

Big Italian sausage guy. Yeah. I'll die on the hill. Yeah. Good. Something about it. You know? But we'll save the real food talk for later. No, seeing how it's made, like on artist relations is a little bit different than AR. Artist Relations is a lot of like handling assets, making sure that where things need to be are in the right place. But there's also a greater role in that that was not described while when I was applying for this, which you just kind of learn along the way. And a lot of it is like a marketing role. You know, whereas AR is a lot more involved in like the song choice, and hey, this is not a hit, we should probably re-record this, which sometimes it is it, you know, it does go into that as well. But the marketing part of it definitely can it transcend into drums or guitar, anyone trying to promote themselves as a musician. Um and it all boils back. Can I give you my whole thing on this? Oh, please. It might take a second, but like I feel like this is probably worth it. Yeah, no, it's a good point.

SPEAKER_04 45:26

Expound, my friend.

Saturation and Storytelling

SPEAKER_03 45:28

So I have, I guess it's more of a theory than anything, but it's there's always a filtering mechanism in place. Um there's always a filtering mechanism in place to prevent uh too many hit artists from being like you can't, there's only so much room for something to be mega huge, mega big. That's in drums, in business, and anything. There's just so much room at the top. It's very small. That's why pyramids go like this, you know. Um, in like the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, all the way up until recording software started to become really good. The great filter was really money and access to the gear, which is money really. Yeah, marketing was definitely part of it, but most bands in those eras could not like afford, even if they had good songs. Like if you weren't in LA, New York, Nashville, like the places, you were probably having a really hard time getting your music into the right spot to then grow to another level. So you needed a lot of money to either buy the gear that you needed to record, or you you know, you just had to have a good budget to like go rent that place and spend some time there because you can't you couldn't sudo, you know, a demo.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:40

Oh, here's a work tape. Sounds like a polished record would have 20 years ago. Um, so money was the was the great filter at that point, and then moving forward when recording software became better and better and better, and streaming came along, and it just everything became more accessible. The filter switched over. It's still money to some extent because you do need money for a lot of things, but it switched from money to saturation. Now that everybody can make a really good sounding record, everyone kind of does, you know. Like there's in distribution. I mean, God, there's like you know, 1100 songs a week that come out that are great. Yeah, it's a great song, sounds awesome, you know. So AI will only further that because like now, again, like the fact that you can hum something randomly in your head and it can turn a voice memo into like a whole production, and you know, not everyone's gonna try to do that, but like you can do it. So the saturation part of it is like it's making it harder and harder for artists to really stand out. So, what that means is it really has to turn back to a few different places, and again, this this is transcending. Could be drummers, could be uh guitar players or musicians or artists or whoever. It's all about narrative, it's all about story. Like that for the same reason why when you look at American Idol or you know, any any of those like competition shows, you know, it's like how the background of that works, so I've heard, anyways, is oh hey, you can sing amazingly. I'm really glad that you're applying to the show, and so can you. Which one of you like family members have like cancer? Does anyone missing a leg? Can you nub out on the you know, it's like what is the story other than the fact that you're just talented that we can sell people? Right. Dude, that's you're 100% right. And in our marketing meetings, like they don't go to that level, but like in our marketing meetings for the company that I work for, like we've talked a lot about our exclusive artists and how we're gonna launch something out. We've shared ideas, and we just we're just trying to get to the root of like what's gonna resonate with people to get them to attach to the artist, not just the album, but like to follow a career, you know, because whether you're a drummer, very few drummers and very few artists have a career that just does this all the time. I mean, even the greats, you know, it's like they're known for big stuff, but they may not always be here all the time. It's yeah, you don't get to see that behind the curtain, but like ebbs and flows, and we call them tentpole moments. So you you know, you're really just looking to capitalize on the big tent pole moments of an artist and and carry it forward. Um, and where that comes into drums is you know, if you as we know, it's uh it's pretty locked up in the studio scene, and there's ways to get around that. Um, I came to Nashville with dreams of recording and like being a recording drummer, and I had I still occasionally get called for sessions, but like not like some of my heroes that very rightfully are here doing stuff. Still still doing it, yeah. Yeah, you know, it and that's you know, that's not me going, oh, I wish, you know, it's like man, these guys are great. That's part of what switched me over from like heavy metal and rock, and I lived in that world for a long time, to go into country because I was just so like it wasn't what they were playing, it was like what they weren't playing. I was like, whoa, you know, like I would never have done that fill, Chad Cromwell. I'm calling you out, like in a cool way. Yeah, my God, that's so awesome! Like, what a unique thing. And I'm sure, like, if you listen to enough Nashville records, you can see like you know who's playing on the record. Like, I know when Nears E is playing a track. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

Yeah. I know some of those Jerry Rowe feels.

SPEAKER_03 50:15

Yeah. Because we all play, like all of us have to play their music so much that like you get intimately in touch with that. Exactly. Uh, and I like being able to do that, but you know, they all have their own unique story. Um, and yeah, so I mean it's a that's a kind of a little bit of

Drum Box (Sponsor)

SPEAKER_03 50:28

a sidebar.

SPEAKER_04 50:30

Hey drummers, do you need a place to practice on actual drums? Drumbox has locations in Lafayette and Longmont, Colorado, and their newest location is right here in Nashville, Tennessee. You can book sessions online and get the space to yourself. Each drumbox location is fully equipped with two kits, cymbals, hardware, and even sticks with it. 30-minute, one-hour, and two-hour sessions are available at www.drumbox.space. Use the coupon code NDP25 for 25% off your first session. The coupon code is valid at all three locations. Again, that's www.drumbox.space.

Marketing For Musicians

SPEAKER_03 51:11

If you're and that's how you can become an asset to your artists, is like if you want to take some time and read a book like uh Building a Story Brand 2.0 and learn that part of things. You know, a lot of artists are they're having to cover a lot of a lot of ground. Um, I gotta record this stuff, I gotta write good music, then I gotta figure out how many TikToks I'm gonna do and how many, like what's what's your content schedule like? What you know, what what does all of this look like? And some artists have a team for that, some artists have a team for that, and they're not very good. Yeah, you know, it even the teams sometimes are guessing because you ultimately have to respond to like what people are responding to themselves.

SPEAKER_01 51:51

Yeah, as you said, the changing culture.

SPEAKER_03 51:53

Yeah, right. If you want to be a drummer that is popular on like the internet, then you probably should look at YouTube and not just Instagram and learn the ins and outs of like how the algorithm really works. What times a day should you be posting? You know, like that. I'm not an expert in that, but I know like if I were to try to do that, that's what I would look at.

SPEAKER_02 52:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:22

You could take one of those content courses too. I've never taken them, but sometimes it helps.

SPEAKER_01 52:26

So like Hop Spot or something.

SPEAKER_03 52:27

Yeah, there's a few people online that like, oh wow, this you know, this is the same post, but one got six million views, and the other one, you know, I flushed down the toilet, and you're like, okay, you know, so there's things like that. Um, and I'm sure we all have opinions on people that like don't play live anymore, but just play on the internet, which I think is kind of like sometimes it's cool, but sometimes I mean, man, I look I just like I like playing live. Yeah, you know, like I feel bad for you, right? It's kind of depressing. You're probably making a whole lot more money than we are, but like maybe I don't know, you know. Right, right, right. Make it a seven, eight hundred dollar a week paycheck from Instagram. I mean, I wouldn't really complain about it.

SPEAKER_04 53:02

I wouldn't be mad at that.

SPEAKER_03 53:02

I'd be mad at it.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

Man, why I I just really appreciate you sharing that. It's a really interesting perspective, I think, that most of us don't have. I think you're absolutely right to I mean, someone that also works in marketing. It's as you said, it's all about the storytelling. To like how do you separate? As you said, it's all the quality is pretty much all there now. It's like what is gonna be the difference maker?

SPEAKER_03 53:21

And you know, we're all creatives here, you know, like at least I mean most of us are. And I don't know if you guys ever saw this thing where, oh God, what was it? It was like how accurate drummers have to be, like the mistake ratio that's acceptable before somebody says that's a bad drummer versus like a guitar player or a singer or someone else. I the first time I saw that, I had I don't know. All right, I'm gonna kind of break it down for anyone who's not seen that.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

I believe it's not seen it.

SPEAKER_03 53:51

I don't remember the exact video, but this is the gist of what was said. It was like, you know, a guitar player is allowed like a certain percentage of like full, you know, flat or just clams as they're playing without anybody even really knowing at all that that person is making a mistake. Yeah, obviously, some of the glaring ones you'll probably know right away, but like drums have to be basically 99.999% accurate all the time. You can't miss anything or barely anything before people are like, Oh, yeah, that's a oh, I saw yeah, you had a little trouble there. Yeah, yeah. So, but the reason I'm saying that is because that mindset of like you're used to having to be perfect kind of all the time. Yeah. So that you can carry that forward into a lot of different aspects of your life. Like, I like the creative aspect of this job as well, because you know, you can help people with their marketing strategy and this and that. But like, if you know drummers are creators, we are accurate, we are highly usually, anyways. I mean, like the people that are on the pro level, uh, we take it very seriously, we're willing to learn. And when you are trying to get into an artist camp, that you know, it's it's okay to remind them, I think, in like a friendly way, like, hey, you know, I have all these other qualities as well, and like, you know, prove through your work that you are a value in more than just like caveman level stuff. Yeah, yeah, not that it's that was a caveman, but I love that. Yeah, so there's a lot of ways you can kind of differentiate yourself from other people.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

That's an opportunity. Yeah, just set yourself out. I know I've seen that, especially in Nashville, all these so many young artists that you know they they don't have a team, they're not they're too young, there's no budget, and like it's sometimes I see I'm like, man, I could I could do this a lot better. But like there's also a balance where it's like you don't want to overstep. Like if you get f if you get called to do a fill-in drum gig, maybe don't say I'm gonna how you're gonna overhaul their marketing strategy on the first shoot.

Subbing Prep (Charts vs Memorization)

SPEAKER_01 55:46

No, but yeah, there's ways to like, as you said, make that known to the camp and to the artist.

SPEAKER_03 55:50

And I have a question for you guys.

SPEAKER_01 55:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:52

When you get calls to fill in for any level, really, just like a buddy, what is your approach usually to like how let's say you don't get any charts, you don't get any live tape, nothing. They're just saying, hey, I really I can't do this gig. It's a 75-minute set, it's all originals, a couple little transitions, they'll kind of walk you through. Like, what's your approach to that? What are you guys doing?

SPEAKER_04 56:20

Uh I mean, uh for I'm this is under the assumption I'm saying yes to it, because if uh I'm filtering out it pays seven dollars. Yeah, well, if it pays seven bucks, but the but the hang is sick and the music is sick, then I'll I'll the old gig triangle. Exactly. The gig the gig triangle as ever is in place. Yep. But if those things are are up to snuff, then I I'm literally I don't do charts. Um no charts, really. I don't do charts. That's awesome. I don't I just I just I don't know. I just don't do it.

SPEAKER_03 56:52

But I mean if um if you can do that, that's great. That's cool. It almost shows like, wow, this guy showed up. He didn't even like he already had it.

SPEAKER_04 56:59

You're just listening to charts over and over and over again. I just l I listen to them a lot, and I I just really, I just really spend some time in those songs. I'll play them a bunch of times. I'll do it where I'm like really trying to do exactly what I'm hearing. I do it where I'm adding a lot more of my voice to it, and then uh I try to show up to that situation being like, I I know how to do it just like I heard it. Yeah. And I have I also know enough about if I were given full permission, this is kind of how I would approach it. And then I'm and then I ask a little bit, like, hey, what? So how close do you want me to play this to this? And how how much like, you know what I thought would be if if they're like, oh, I want your artistic voice, then that's that's a whole different thing. It's wide open. Let's go. Yeah. What you got? How about this? What about a halftime right here?

SPEAKER_01 57:51

Bet you never thought of that. Already had that long, already had that practice.

SPEAKER_03 57:54

Are you guys typically putting in, let's say that there's like three weeks of advanced notice that you're gonna play this? Like, how much time are you putting in to the prep on the back end?

SPEAKER_01 58:06

Well, it's funny. I'm I'm kind of the opposite. I'm very chart heavy. If if I need to be, or if if I have enough time, I don't want to have a chart. But a lot of times it is only a few weeks or a few days. Now I'm going through that right now as we're as we're talking. I have like a bunch of sub-fill-in gigs in the next few weeks. That's great. Where I'm like, uh Andrew Bone said this on the last episode of kind of like tapering it.

SPEAKER_03 58:26

Andrew's a good guy.

SPEAKER_01 58:27

Yeah, he's great. Of like, you know, the first show upcoming, I'm going all in on that. Then I'm gonna start the chart the next weekend. And then like, if I'm like super prepped, then like, yeah, I'll get a head start on the charts, but maybe I'm not actually playing anything yet. I'm just getting the charts ready. And then once the first show's over, okay, on to the next one.

SPEAKER_03 58:43

So you don't you do charts, you don't do charts. What do you do? What is well I I do charts because I'd rather chart than chart.

SPEAKER_01 58:51

Yeah, we've welcome back to charts or charts. We're like God. Dude, you're full of the goods. Sorry, no, I didn't even plan that when I swap. I remember we exchanged charts uh last year. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:03

I so everybody makes charts differently. Sure do. You know, Summer's chicken scribble and and uh thanks to Jim Riley for the the book on the Nashville number system. Because before I had that, I didn't have any real clear what I had my own version of it, but it was just like you know, it wasn't accurate. And what I kind of learned how to do was based off of what he kind of wrote down. So he gave a nice little roadmap to how to do it. Um I like to take as much time charting as I can, not because you know, I'm a little slow, which I'm sure I'm sure I'm a little slow in some ways, but like um I find that the listening time, the time that like I'll notate the fills. You don't have to do that at all. But like if it's a really specific one, maybe, but I like to put myself in touch with the writing of it because I'm listening to it over and over. And I find that I don't have to uh concentrate so hard on the chart. Yeah. Because I've just I've done this a million times, like now I know the structure. It's super clean. Because I mean, if you're charting, you have to read, if you're having to read it on stage, you're probably you know, that's the only chance you're gonna have to get it right. You're it maybe you'll have a rehearsal, but I've done a ton of shows where like, you know, even like Chase Bryant, who is super talented. Like, I don't know if you guys have ever worked with Chase, but like I don't know, I think the last like couple records, it's literally all him is like Prince, you know, like drums done in his in his like attic, but like it sounds incredible. Um, so he's very dialed into like what he wants, um, or at least what it should be. And

Japan Fly-Date Story

SPEAKER_03 1:00:37

we actually flew to Japan. I'll I'll tell you a chart. I'll craft this into a story. That was the only time I've been in Japan, and it was 2022, September, maybe like three weeks ahead. And I'd played one time with him before as like a fill-in. And this one, I think some of the other guys, like no one had their passport. So I was like, okay, well, I got a passport, cool, in. And I don't think we knew what we were playing for sure. I think it was like 30 minutes to 45 minutes before the show. And but like his music is not like you know, meatloaf or something like that, with like you know, tons of crazy specific hits. Like, sometimes there is that. So like you can kind of feel it out, sure, and your charts are gonna be a little bit more like structure based than like accurate fills, but still, like flying halfway around the world and not knowing what you're gonna be playing on the plane, you're like, All right, man, here we go. Yep, it ended up being fantastic. It was a really, really fun show. No tracks, so you know, gotta, you know, we all got to let loose a little bit. Nice. Um, but that was like super scribble tracks, like, okay, or not uh sorry, charts, just to get this the structure down and make sure I have the down sections and all that kind of stuff too. But we didn't, you know, we didn't take it too seriously. He'll cue you, he'll go out there and have fun and rip like a 20-minute guitar solo and it's sick. So, like sometimes that kind of stuff happens, but you know, you don't really need it, right? Um, and I've been called to sub for some other guys with like very specific live arrangements of stuff with like transitions and like tons of outro stuff and the charts. Maybe I even showed you one that was just like I crammed it on one page, but you're like, oh my god, you know, you're like, please get through this. It's there, it's all there. But like it helps, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:20

But yeah, I think that's that's the name of the game, right? Like, if you are gonna have a chart, especially there's no rehearsal, yeah. Like you gotta that chart needs to be so bulletproof that it's gonna get you through the show. Yeah, you said one you get one shot at it.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:30

I I don't like to just get through the show though. I'll listen to that stuff until the moment we walk on stage.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:35

Yeah, it's a good I find it's a good way to practice like practice, like charting is actually not playing the parts, but it's a good way to, as you said, still listen to the song over and over. And I've been uh I've been filling in with for uh Sam yet with uh Shane Prophet, and still to this day I've never had one rehearsal with that camp. That's great. It's I've just had great charts. Yeah, his crew is great too. Oh, yeah, they're great. Shane's awesome, cool voice. Love him.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:56

Yeah, they I mean he's um I think Triple Tigers, he's on the new label. Yep, and that team is great. Um, we know a lot of those guys, they're they're fantastic. So, yeah, I mean, so you're filling in with them on a kind of show by show basis.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:12

I think I have like two dates this year so far.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:15

That's cool. Yeah, well, if I have to take any dates off, I'll call you boys and see. I got charts for you. We'll we'll do it out.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:20

Yeah, we'll see who uh you can show them to me and I'll just go.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:24

No, they're not bad. I promise you. You know, they're there, it's nothing, you know, none of no. I showed you my charts.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:30

Mine are like mine are like obsessively neat, I think I'd say like they are because I don't I use Sibelius and I screenshot the notations and there's it's 100% digital. It's there's no handwritten because I I was honestly kind of tired of getting charts from from other drummers and musicians. Maybe a great chart and accurate, but it was like you know, chicken scratch, things crossed out, not consistent font sizes, and it's just like that's a headache. Yeah, like I'm trying to play and I'm like trying to decipher. I need it to be super clear, at least for my brain.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:58

Well, you know, it's funny, like kind of like that's a real by the way. This is no way putting you down. I actually think that what you're able to do is a huge strength because um, as long as you're familiar with the material and you know the changes, and I gotta give a story about this. Um, when I was first getting into town and learning like the Broadway set list, uh everyone in town knows Will Easterwood. I think, anyways, you know, he's um he maybe maybe not. I don't think you met the two guys who don't. Yeah. Right now I think he's drum teching.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:31

This is the key to this is the key to unlocking the towel. We just need to know what this guy is. What's he up to?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:36

Well, Will, I mean he's a great, he's a great drummer, but like he was he's now teching for uh on the John Party gig, you know, with Kevin. And I just remember this because like, you know, these kind of things stick with you about like learning experiences, where he was playing at some club that's probably not even there anymore, uh, which is most clubs downtown anymore. Right. And he invited, he's like, Oh yeah, we had talked to him a few times before, and he invited me up with the band that was killer to sit in for a tune. And I didn't know anything. I was like, Yeah, okay. I was nervous and shaking, you know. And he gave me the opportunity, and fortunately, the song that they went with was like the fireman. So he's like, just play, just just as straight as it gets. And I'm like, okay, cool. So we we made it through that one fine. But where it went wrong wasn't on that one, it was like um at Legends. Um, I'm trying to think who was the maybe Chris Schrader, I think, was playing at that time. Which a lot of people know Chris too, but I'm not assuming anymore. Um he was playing down there, and I also knew his guitar player, uh Eddie, who plays with Tyler Hubbard now. And that's a whole other thing, too. Eddie's great. But he invited me up and they played uh Dixieland Delight. Nice. And I didn't know that one either.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:51

I just posted a video from the Utah wedding. We do Dixieland Delight. Like 800 BPI was crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:57

That's not the kind of song you want to just jump into, never hearing it before. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

Especially like some of those hits.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:02

And Eddie knew that going in, poor guy. He's like, I'll never forget the look on his face. Oh my God. He was like, he's like, what are we doing? What are we doing? He's like, oh, we're doing Dixie Land Delight. Cool. All right. He's like, have you ever played it? And I'm like, nope. He's like, oh no. Oh no. And I'm like, oh, is it that kind of song? He's like, just watch me, I guess. We made it through, but like another one where I'm like, at least Will threw me a song that I'm like could totally get through. But like not knowing the Broadway set list and how things are done downtown sometimes. Yeah. Um would have loved a chart in that situation.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:34

Sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:36

Yes. That's like a, you know, if I don't know where I'm going, I would rather have a chart. But if I've paid attention to the music, um, you know, it's feel free not to have to look at a page.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:44

That's it's true. Yeah. I would all having that available to you and being able to look at it and go, okay, I get the structure. Yeah. That's very nice. And that's something that I am missing out on. I'm uh perhaps foolishly, but I did I have chosen to air to the side. I'm like, I just want I want to get this stuff to a level of instinct. Yeah. That's what what I really want to. Like, I would even rather be able be like, no, I don't know that, and I'm not gonna read the thing. I would rather miss that opportunity and then get the thing like, no, you played that and was like on a DNA level locked in. That's what I want.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:18

The good thing about country too is like you can kind of do that with a lot of songs. Like rock is a lot harder because it's so specific. I'm gonna vibe out uh you know, some specific like you know, Bon Jovi tunes where like, or imagine if you're trying to play, you know, a lick. Oh, we're playing in the key of D in Bon Jovi. Like, no, there's specific riffs. Like you can't just like if you're not going da-da-da-da-da-da. Like, you know, you could probably fudge through that, but everyone knows specific parts.

Iconic Fills and Pranks

SPEAKER_03 1:07:45

Have you ever played in the air tonight? Well, there's a big fill. You're not gonna want to miss it, but you don't know what it is. Like, yeah, can't really dig it, but digga, dig it, digging it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:58

That'd be cool. That'd be cool. Honestly. At least that's preferencing another well-known fill. That's a viral hit right there.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:05

Exactly. I I'm gonna do that. Have you done that? No, but that's now you are. There's a band with with my multiple situations downtown. I am I'm I'm doing that. I'm I will insert that fill, the fill from first date, sometimes the in the internet fill, uh what what else? Oh, smooth, of course. That's going in, and I'm just trying to find the spot where I can get them and they're not expecting it, and throw the singer off. I am, I'm just gonna say it right now. I'm trying to do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:38

You're entering Ethan territory.

unknown 1:08:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:40

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's been in that territory for a moment. Oh, I've been I've been living in even back in California. Before I moved here, I was still whatever. 12 years ago, I was I was doing that. I'm like, I'm gonna find a I haven't done it's the longer I've been here, the more comfortable I've gotten in these gigs, the more I'm like, I know the right moment where I'm like, I can do it, and I bet I can make them laugh.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:02

What what part of California are you from?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:03

Um, I'm from way up north, Reading.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:05

Reading. Oh, I haven't been there, but here's the place you can go.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:07

It is a place you can go. I'm not sure why you would, but you could.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:12

I I think Northern California is beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:15

It is. When it's not on fire, it's great.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:18

When it's not on fire, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:20

I mean the South for that much too. I mean the whole state's like various times of the year, you just, you know, it's an inferno.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:26

I don't know. I'm sorry, guys. We're out in LA, come to Nashville. We only have tornadoes and floods every 10 years or something. Ice storms. Yeah, it's fine. Yeah, you'd be fine out here. Don't worry about that, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:38

There's two things I want to say. One is uh already you're one of my favorite guests that we've had on here. Oh, geez, thanks. And the second thing is I'm gonna go pee in Taylor's driveway because I'm about to die. Don't die. Go pee.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:51

Do we keep that in? That's gonna be I would keep it in, why not? You never know what he's gonna say, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:56

Well, that's what makes something interesting.

Low Boy Beaters (Sponsor)

SPEAKER_04 1:09:58

How do you get the perfect Nashville kick drum tone? It starts with a low boy leather daddy bass drum beater. This leather-faced beater occupies the sonic space between felt and wood beaters. It's punchy enough to cut through the mix on those four on the floor barn burners with the warmth you need for slow ballads. Okay, but who plays a leather daddy? Garrett Goodwin from Carrie Underwood's band uses one. Lee Bryce drummer Donnie Marple plays a pair. Walk down Broadway any night of the week and you're gonna hear one. In Nashville, you can test drive a low boy beater at Drumbox and grab one at Forks, Drum Supply, or Nelson's. Check out lowboybeaters.com to learn more.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:39

Oh man, I do have a story. Not about Curtis Blood. You're full of stories, I love it. Listen, I've lived a life. All right. I've lived a life.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:47

Listen, I've lived a spiritual book.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:49

Well, hey, I'll here's I'll tell you some of my crazier stories. You guys want to hear? I've lived the life.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:54

Listen, I've lived a life.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:55

Okay. Just out of in no particular order, as these come up, I'll tell you the stories. Because some of them are really crazy. Um, I don't know. I hesitate to tell this one, but like here we are. Um we can always edit it out, don't worry.

NAMM Lessons and Trade Shows

SPEAKER_03 1:11:12

The NAM show, probably 2009, I think this was. I was so excited to go. And actually, this being a part of let me just this is actually a good point to make. Going out to a Music City drum show or any drum show or a trade show and being around other people that are trying to do what you do has uh I now that I'm thinking about it, I'm like, oh yeah, that has like really shaped some of the decisions I made with my whole life. And here is kind of a sad story about it is one of the reasons I moved to Nashville is uh geographically being so close to like so many different cities, you can you can be kind of a weekend warrior. You know, and of course, like you'll go out for longer, but there's two things. Um I was very fortunate to grow up where I did when I did. It was New England, Massachusetts in like the 90s, like late 90s, early 2000s, was like huge, huge bands were coming out of like that particular area. There was stained, of course, everybody knows stained, um, rest in peace, John Waisaki, who also left an impact on me. I saw stained in a bowling alley at a little bit. Oh wow, man. Games and lanes in Agawam. And I never forgot it because John had this beautiful, like sparkly purple pearl kit with like the gold hardware on it. I was like, I just I'll never forget it. I was like, I've never never seen that. It's awesome. That's so sick. And they were like just in the cusp of like breaking out, so they hadn't really even done anything yet. Um, and then the metal band that I was in uh was playing a lot with Kill Switch Engage at that time. We're like, they were the guitarist Joel was teaching our guitarist lessons. So like, man, this is sorry, this is all sorts of sidebars, but this all will tie in. So here are some really crazy ones. Um the Kill Switch Engage guys, or at least Joel, used to teach at performance music in Westfield, whose father, uh sorry, who um it was owned by Matt Garska's father. Oh, yeah. And Matt owned Matt lives like a couple of I think a couple of miles away from me. So there's just so much talent. I'm I'm now I'm not really not even on the same earth as Matt. Like Matt's incredible. How many are? I'm just you know, I'm dipping into the pocket, I'm staying there, and uh I, you know, too many kids to practice to get up to that level now. So it's thanks, Matt. You're gonna smoke me forever. Um no, but he's great. But like the whole point is um, you know, sometimes I used to play with Matt's dad in like blues bands, stuff like that. It was really fun, but that area had such a tremendous amount of talent that it kept you going, which is the thing I saw here in town. I was like, man, the talent was like everyone was succeeding, so it made me want to like try hard. And and there were so many great drummers that I'm like, man, it wasn't about me like, oh, I'm better than this guy, but I was like, wow, I can learn so much. Like this is great.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:00

100%.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:00

Like I feel pushed to do as good as I can instead of just being comfortable, you know. So that was a that was a really, really important thing. You should always end up somewhere where it's gonna push you to be the best version of this mortal coil that you got.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:13

Yeah, yeah. I think that's why so many of us have moved here from historically from not national, you know, from other cities. Yes, they wanted just that, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:23

You know, big fish, small pond, you don't usually get the best results from that all the time. You know, like it's not you know, so there's that mentality. So growing up around those guys and seeing um Kill Switch would tour uh relentlessly. I mean, they were gone for you know two, three months at a time, sometimes longer, you know, overseas. At that time, they didn't really have like a lot of families or anything like that. But you know, if three months out, uh you're you're exhausted. I mean, they would come back home and and they would be so just they couldn't even couldn't exist. Like, you know, it takes you it takes you a long time to become human again. Uh but that being said, over to the NAM show, I I had the fortunate experience of and they will rename remain nameless, but I got to meet uh a few of my biggest drum heroes, and I was oh, I got to go to dinner with these guys. No way, and I'll never forget this because it was cool to be in their presence as like not an equal because I'm not equal to these guys, but as like, hey, I'm sitting at the same table, like it's pretty cool. And you know what? It made me really sad because most of these guys were divorced and their kids like kind of hated them because they were just gone so much. Yeah, I was like, wow, there's like a heavy toll sometimes when you do this, like you know, get ready for that, you know. And I have a wife still, and like my kids don't hate me, but like that was part of the thing here is an eye-opening for you, yeah. And it was important because like I'm a family guy, sure. You know, I love my family, and I try to spend as much time as I can, you know, with them so you know they know who I am. Yeah. Um, but yeah, that was a big eye-opening thing. But here's what the funny part is that same NAM, I took a short elevator ride. We were staying in the Hilton Hotel. Oh man, we took a short elevator ride.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:15

Those those NAM elevator rides really hit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:19

From I think we were on like the 11th floor or something like that, and we had to go down to the third floor, or maybe it was the lobby of this particular one. But um I walk in, drop a floor, and Bootsy Collins walks in. Yo, and Bootsy and his whole crew now of like he's in the whole, it's not like sweatpants, Bootsy. It's like the whole garb, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:40

He's he can see around corners.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:42

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh man, I'm gonna be in trouble for this. But um, and I thought he was, I thought he was a great guy. There's nothing wrong with him at all. But homeboy cut the wettest, grossest fart I've ever heard in my life. Like pilot station at 3 a.m. truck driver level of gas. No one acknowledged it on his team. I mean, the dude was like right there in front of me. I'm like, that's that is bootsy.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:09

That's the king of funk right there.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:10

Yeah, he walked out a couple floors later and totally left me with the funk. True story. Yeah. True story.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:17

You were editing in old Greg into this. I'm telling you, you don't even know what that is, but you're going to find out. Do you know what I'm talking about? Oh my goodness. I'm sorry. See, that's why I love this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:28

Is just they're just talking to people. He's like, you um when would you when would you hear that story?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:32

You know, I just feel like I'm gonna get a call in a few weeks, but like, hey, uh, this is Bootsy Collins lawyer. Yes. Um, we're gonna have to have to retract that. Um I got a seven-layer burrito for you.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:48

Bootsy, yo, dude, Bootsy Collins, bro. Stop crazy. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:54

One of the best, one of the best. Like, can't say anything against him as a player, that's for sure. But he's sure he's a sweet guy. Saw him another time during that thing, and he was super nice. Um, actually, on that same Nan show, I remember uh trying to learn cue bass at that time. And I didn't recognize the guy working there, but it was it was Peter Frampton. And he was like just stopped by the booth just to like say hi to some of the people he knew, and I I thought he worked there, so I was like, hey, how do you do this? You know, I don't even remember what I asked him, but he's like, Oh yeah, you just gotta pull in this drop-down menu and click this, and then I saw his name tag and I was like, Oh my god, are you like like the guy, Frampton? Like, really, you know, that was kind of funny.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:29

You're not Peter Frampton, Peter Frampton, right? You're a different one. Yeah, but you get that name tag. Guitarist, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:36

Frampion. No, I mean, you know, this is like I love going to shows like that because you get to run into so many people like that. Um, so, anyways, go out to trade shows if you can, because you'll meet and have experiences and like kind of shape maybe craft or inspire you to do something the same or different. Yeah, man. So that's kind of cool. Oh man, I don't know. I have I'm just upset. I don't even know where to go with these stories.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:57

There you go.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:57

I appreciate you sharing everything and um oh I just it just made me it made me think I was at the Roland booth at NAM one year, and it was just one guy doing the demos on one of the one of the kids, it was a one of the higher end ones from the year because they had Johnny Rabb doing one of the like like a little lower lower end and just making it look just so sick. He was so sick. And then this guy had to do the high oh yeah, gravity glass, all the you know he's so I love him. He's the best, uh, and just the sweetest dude. Um but I just this dude was just talking to one guy and just sweating bullets, and I'm just I'm like, who's he talking to? And it's just literally Simon Phillips asking him questions about Mike. So how does this work? I'm like, yeah, I'd be sweating too if Simon Phillips is like, so I need to know about this element of your tell me about yeah, I'd be I'd be I had actually Johnny Rabbs, glad you brought him up.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:47

I've always looked up to you because I thought, like, you know, he's been such a well, kind of like Bob Gatson in a way, where like an incredible player, but kind of an innovator too. Yes, you know, like Bob Gatson. I don't know how much you guys know about Bob, but Bob uh created Noble and Cooley drums, like he was the designer behind all that, and he created like nodal mounting and all sorts of stuff, like ways to build the shells. And at that time in the 80s, like nobody was doing that. And a lot of people have like licensed from Noble and Cooley on that. But the you know, he also created like a bunch of Evan stuff and like master sound hi-hats, you know. He was an inventor, but anyways, getting back to uh Rab, maybe 2006, I think was PASIC in Austin. I want to say was I had a um a former instructor, a good friend Mark Manzik that I remember I was I was gonna be at this show, and I was so nervous about going up to like Thomas Lang and all these guys that are super cool, Ben and Grab, and you know uh eventually it talked to all of them, but they were going to this one place called the one-to-one bar. I was like, Yeah, we're having a little after party. And I think Rab was living in Nashville at that time. He's like, Yeah, we have a band that's kind of flew out for the show, just playing covers and stuff. You know, you should come out. You know, he didn't know who I was, so he's like, ah, whatever, come out to the show. Went out to the show. And after the band had to go to the airport to fly back, like I don't know why I did this, and I'm thinking about this. The band had to fly back, so now it's like Will Calhoun, Benny Greb, Thomas Lang, Johnny Rab. Um I feel like I'm forgetting someone, but like the guy, especially at that time, too. Uh, and they were all just trading drum solos, you know. So like they'd hand off the stick, and someone would get up, and the next guy would sit in. And I came up with a great idea. I'm like, I'm gonna ask him. I'm gonna sit in. I'm gonna do this because my drum teacher told me, hey, you know what, you gotta take chances. He probably meant just like go say hi. Hey, nice to meet you.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:38

No, I'll I'll even say that's exactly what your drum teacher meant, but want to hear how how it went. I I barely remember because I blacked out a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:45

But I remember um this is this is basically how it went. It turns out I was actually the last person to go. Yeah, so Thomas Lang is up there doing doing doubles at 290, you know, or whatever, like just cruising. And the bartender came up and feeding him shots, and he's just doing the stick. I mean, everyone's there like, whoa, I am shitting because I'm next. Like he's gonna hand his sticks off to me, and I have to go after that. Yeah, and I got new, I got news for y'all. I'm not John, I'm not Thomas Lang. Like, I'm you know, I could do some things sometimes, but I'm no not even close to that one.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:25

Some things sometimes. That's so good.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:27

Well, yeah, uh, I remember sitting down in the kit, and I I clear I really don't even remember what I did. Yeah, it was it, but uh what I do remember is they were all in the front row folding arms watching me. Oh my gosh. Because I was the last guy on the stage. And I mean, they probably they have no idea that I'm like what I'm talking about right now, but I will never forget. Of course, yeah. And I did whatever I did, and I remember a few of them came up and they were like, honestly, like you, it's not that you're bad, it's just like I couldn't believe that someone from the audience would want to like be incorporated into this. And I was like, Yeah, I don't know, man. Uh kind of shocked it came up here. Yeah, I mean, you know, as I'm like, glad you did. You know, they probably think I had some disease shaking so hard. Uh like, oh, he's special, we gotta be nice to him. At the end of the day, though, like taking a chance like that is not something I I would probably ever do again. But like, you know, it's a story, and guys, why are we doing this? Why are we doing any of this? At the end of the day, I mean, hopefully we have our memories, you know, that could be questionable too. But like it's just about the life you you live, the experiences you get to do, you know, like the fact that I had so many crazy things happen, and we all have, you know, is why I started doing this, you know, so I can have a good quality of life and uh have some really good times.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:46

You know? That's yeah, I'm like, man, I'm trying to save these other stories. I'm like, oh my god, I can't riper, I can't tell some of these.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:52

It's it is it is about the stories and being able to the narrative. Yeah, correct.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:57

Yeah, not taking yourself too seriously, right? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:00

That's no taking me seriously.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:01

Maybe a little. Clearly not, yeah.

unknown 1:24:03

Maybe a little.

Drum Supply (Sponsor)

SPEAKER_04 1:24:06

You've heard of drum supply, but you gotta see their shop. It's a drum shop experience like no other. They're packed with all the gear a working drummer needs, and so many parts, noise toys, and accessories. It's a toy store. Curated cymbals, kits, and snares, the hands-on percussion room is nuts, and their custom shop work is fast and affordable. Andy and the guys know their stuff, and they're ready to help. And the big news? They've just moved to an awesome new location near the corner of East Trinity Lane and Dickerson Pike. Still in East Nashville, just a couple miles from their old spot, the all-new drum supply is twice as big, featuring a dedicated cymbal room, a lesson space, and even more drum gear than ever. Go see the new drum supply shop for yourself. Now open 11 to 5 at 2211 Dickerson Pike and online at drumsupply.com.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:03

We've talked about a lot. This has been fantastic.

Landing Logan Crosby Gig

SPEAKER_01 1:25:06

I want to learn more about the gig with Logan Crosby. Yeah. Uh, because you've been on that gig for many years now.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:11

It's been about, I think, three years. Three years, okay. Right from the start. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:15

Yeah, just get into like how you landed the gig, what your tour has been like, where you guys are at in 2026 as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:22

So this Logan is is the is the job I've been I've been looking for. Because what I mean by that is I have played with some groups, you know, respectfully, who shall be nameless, that were kind of like more a part of the way down in your career. Which again, like that's not even a bad thing necessarily, because you know, everyone's working and you know, you're still playing. That's totally fine. Um, but I've always wanted to be a part of like something on the way up, you know, exciting. It takes a lot of work and sometimes sacrifice too, just because you know, every so much goes into the mystery of will this even work? You know, do I even know like none of us really know the answer to that? Yeah, but how I met Logan first was he was being managed by someone who I met at Edge Hill Cafe many years prior to that, uh, who had worked at Big Machine and then started her own publishing company. Logan's history is that he uh was on a TV show. I don't know, I'm assuming no one knows anything about him here, so I'm just gonna like go from the start. The TV show was called Claim to Fame on ABC, and I believe it was like the biggest show that ABC had on that year, like the most successful reality show. Okay. And the whole plot of the show was like hosted by the Jonas Brothers. The plot of the show was everybody had a celebrity relative on the show, and you gotta like guess who it was. I think I've only seen like half of one episode so far, and they took it off, so I don't I haven't really seen the show, but I know who who didn't win.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:55

Yeah, never heard of that.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:56

It was on for like three seasons, but like definitely the first season was with him was the best because he got to showcase the thing. Logan has a special uh it factor, like it's hard to explain, but when you know it's his personality, you know, like he he's a really, really wonderful guy, he has a huge heart. Um, he's one of my best friends in the world, and I would say that on or off camera, like we've just we've been through a whole lot together. Um, so he's one of the only people I've met in this industry on the artist's side who would lay down his life for his crew. He really, really would. So huge, huge props to Logan on that. So we met and started playing together. There was a few somewhat iterations of the band, just trying to find like the right fit. And then as we started growing and touring, um this is also interesting. This combines a lot of like my life experience here, right? So started playing out, put out an EP, I which I still love. It's it's his First EP um started gaining traction. We started playing some more festival shows. And then we started to kind of recently pivot, not out of country entirely, but like as an artist evolves, sometimes their sound can evolve. Sure. And it's you know, it's getting to a really cool and unique spot where like his voice. Oh, by the way, I didn't tell you. So on the show, Jason Aldean is his cousin. That's why he was on the show. Okay. So Jason has like a really distinct voice. You know, there's like a quality to his voice. And Logan also does too, but not in the same exact way, but like it's there. There's something there that is really, really unique about it. So almost imagine like a like a pop sound, but not pop like bubblegum pop, but like I almost want to say like Harry Styles with like a country voice over it. But it works. It's not like someone trying to do something. You could you could tell it's like yeah, it's genuine and it works. Um, but you know, we're still kind of experimenting with the sounds. He's doing a lot of writing, but yeah, we've done some pretty cool, uh, really cool

Tour Life and Van Fire

SPEAKER_03 1:29:13

shows. Uh we were on the Rock the Country festival tour this past year, which you know, we got to meet it was so cool to see Nickelback a bunch of times. Like they're so good. Yeah, well, that was that was probably the one band that really surprised me on that whole festival. Like it was cool to me. I'm like, man, we get to play on the same festivals. Like Nickelback, that's awesome. Yeah, and I didn't really get a chance to talk to many of those guys because they would basically bus in, play, bus right out, you know, because these shows were in the middle of kind of nowhere, you know. That was like the appeal of the show, these massive shows and like a farm, you know. Yeah, but they would come in, and the thing I have to say is like what was so impressive was not just that they were great players, but like everybody the whole day would sound really good, big PA. And then like when they came on, it was like three levels up of like how good the quality was. It was amazing. So their front house guy was like 10 out of 10. Yeah, you know, very experienced. So that was cool to see. Um, and also we made some great friends around that whole thing. Like it was a weird line of us, um, like little Texas, the yin yang twins, you know, like very eclectic. I'm like, Afro man was on it. Insane, yeah, it was very interesting, you know. So we love that experience. And now we're just uh we just wrapped up the headlining tour in like a few weeks ago, and then we have, you know, we're still lining up some things for this year, and uh, I don't know exactly what's happening for the rest of the year. There's a lot of like whisperings. Sure. Um, I don't know when this is gonna air, so I don't want to say like, oh, this is gonna happen, and then clearly did not happen. Um, but there's some pretty cool opportunities for like maybe the later end of the year for us to do some traveling in places that we haven't been. So that's yeah, but like musically, one thing I will say that I really love that Logan lets us do is so I'm not the band leader on this one. Okay, Dylan Keith is the band leader. Dylan is another one of my best friends. That like we are such a scrappy and tight team. This is this is vital. In the business of touring, like you need to keep things, especially until there is like a plush little budget for like a serial tech or whatever. Like, you have to be tight on, and everyone has to pull their weight and do different jobs and just be fine with that, which we all are because we've all done it. Um, Dylan's the band leader, he also owns the computers, programs the Ableton rig. He he's the one that sets all that up. Like, we I set it up live, but like he programs it. We have a light rig now, he owns that. He owns the tour bus that we drive in. Uh so like Dylan brings a real lot, other than just being a great guy, and you know, he he could wear a lot of different hats. So he's a super valuable guy. Yeah, um, and that's what I encourage everybody to do. Like, learn a lot and you'll be valuable. Yeah. Makes me sound like I'm not valuable, but like, you know, we all chip in and do different things here. Um, so we can cover a lot of ground very affordably and still be very comfortable touring and not have to like lose money on tours. So that's a great point. It's you know, we figured out how to do that. So even if like ticket sales are always up and like we Logan actually sells a ton of merch. Um, he does really well ticket-wise, but like you know, sometimes oh, the distance is very you know, a lot of gas to get there, just the economics of like how it works. Uh, we've been fortunate to like always put ourselves uh in a good spot by the end of the tour. Like, oh, this is great. So yeah, I mean, so far, I'm really excited where things have gone. We've been through a van fire, which is a whole nother story, but I think I remember that, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you can find pictures on the Instagram page just like terrible van, just literally like, oh wow, it's orange on the ground beside us. That that's probably not good, you know, sudden loss of power and like big noise, and then finally pull over in the side of the road and didn't take long. Didn't take long, and that thing was didn't lose any of our gear. Got it all in all of our gear. Shout out to Humes and Berg Cases, uh, because we literally had to open the trailer as the flames are coming towards the trailer, and we're like, because we thought the thing was gonna explode, so we're all like, get away. And when we realized, like, oh, it's it wasn't gonna explode like the movies, you know. Yeah, we're like now. The trailer's gonna catch on fire, and like some of that stuff we can't replace. Yeah, so we are like dropping the trailer, we're literally taking drums and cymbals, just throwing them, hucking them. Nothing's damaged, you know. Wow. So those cases, they really helped up. Yeah, man. Thanks, Mike Berg. Appreciate you, buddy.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:51

No loss of life, no loss of limb, no loss of gear. Yeah, God bless. Amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:56

Yeah, so that's been you know, there's been uh in the journey of this kind of thing, like we've been fortunate that like no matter what happens, like you can't phase the mentality of this crew. We're just so positive and the vibe's always good. Yeah, I mean, you don't find them.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:13

Especially when you find that. I was gonna say, yeah. So I'm I'm glad to hear that um it sounds like very fulfilling for you to move to a place like Nashville and to be searching for that and to finally, you know, after however many years, six, seven, eight years, I mean, you're in that comfortable gigs, you know, good situation.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:28

Yeah. And of course, like, you know, any artist that's emerging, there's gonna be parts where it's like, you know, we're God, I can't wait to the next step. Part of it's embrace the journey, but the other part is like, you know, if you as a band member, hopefully you guys can get in a scenario where like, you know, you can chat with the artist just super openly about everything and be, you know, be an asset and a real team member. So sometimes we'll work on like release strategy stuff and like content strategy, and you know, sometimes we'll help them film and do all that kind of stuff, just because like you know, we all want to see it work, and Logan is super funny, and you know, yeah. So we all work really well together on that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:06

You know, what's a favorite song right now on the set on the drums for you?

SPEAKER_03 1:35:10

Sugar Mama. Sugar Mama. The song's not out yet, but um that's when you said yeah, yeah. So this one, you know, how it works in a lot of different every camp again, everyone's different. Um, Al Dean uses a lot of his guys on on those records, which is great. And not everyone does for various reasons, you know. Like, not any that the guys are bad. Yeah, uh, sometimes the producer just like it's like an insurance policy, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:34

Yeah, we've talked about that on this show.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:36

Yeah, like hey, I'm getting paid big money to do a thing. Like, I know I'm gonna call these five guys because they're they're gonna do literally anything that could ever need it to be done. Like it's I got you.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:46

Sometimes it's good to you know, separation of church and state. Yeah, if something goes wrong in the studio, it's like shit, I'm stuck with these guys on the road now, and there might be a weird personality thing or something. Yep, sewing's hurt, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:57

He let us play. I mean, they co-wrote it because one of the jokes in the Logan camp is like, you know, as you sit there, like, man, I just really need a sugar mama. You know, it's like, man, I wish some like a sugar mama would come along and just pay for all this stuff, you know? And so it became kind of like a running joke. And then Dylan, our guitar player, was like, well, let's write it. So Logan and Dylan went back and forth with I believe I'm trying to remember the other writer, and it might have been Andrew De Roberts, but um, they got a good song out of it, and then the whole band's a part of the production too. So I think we're gonna see a lot more of that band being part of the the production thing, which is great. Yeah, because we know we're the sound, like the the show, what you hear on the records is not what you see live. Live, it's way more exciting. And the records are fine too, but like everybody says the same thing. Like, man, the live show is like a way different caliber than what we're hearing on the records. So you have to do that. You gotta like ticket sales are king, yeah. That's the proof that an artist is succeeding or not. Like, streams are cool, but they don't really pay a lot, right? Playlists are cool, but you don't get to pick it. Somebody else does. Yeah, um, but you know, when you're going to tickets and merch, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:37:05

That's what you mean.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:05

I mean, if you're selling 80,000 tickets at Houston Rodeo, like Cody Johnson did last night or two nights ago, whatever. I mean, grief. That's how much proof do you need that you're doing okay? Yeah, that's pretty much it. You know? I'll take I'll take 800 tickets, you know. That's fine.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:20

You know what? In fact, my music doesn't need to be streaming at all. Just get those people there.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:24

That's right. I'll take a tuba out of the side of a thunderbird. How many tickets you got? Yeah, you know, this doesn't matter.

Advice for Younger Drummers

SPEAKER_01 1:37:31

Okay, here's a question for you. Um what would you say for younger drummers? And I guess selfishly I'm asking this for myself too. Advice for maybe drummers moving here or in the middle of their career, trying to find that next up-and-coming artist, right? And oh, and um maybe like what to look for, like networking things to do to try to try to put yourself. I guess like the Rich Redman approach of just like being out there, yes. But like we all do so many different gigs and fill-ins, and a lot of times, as we know, like those gigs aren't like as you said, maybe they're on the on the come down, or they're just not like you know, it's not like the long-term play.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:06

Here are a few things.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:08

So tricky.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:08

I guarantee you it's been repeated, but here are a few things from you that's right, it's true on this podcast. Um preparation meets opportunity, you know, like if you get an opportunity to do something, and most country music's like not the hardest to play, but that's not the thing. It's like the it's the feel, you know. Like I spent a real lot of time going through a journey of like how I can make myself sound exactly like the record, not a little bit like the record, like you close your eyes, I am Steve Jordan playing gravity. You can't tell the difference. Not and it's not like a bragging point, but it's like that was a big challenge for me coming up through the ranks and doing it in a way where that's my approach to every artist gig that I ever get. Is first and foremost, you learn when you do get an opportunity, you learn the recording, and this is just my opinion. Some people are different on this, but out of respect to the recording and the artists and the drummer and musicians that played on it, that's your starting point. Like, there's the recorded material, unless it's communicated to you that, like, oh, well, we do something completely different. Yeah, start exactly there, and so much of that get gets lost on ride and hi-hat the how you play those things, so much of it gets lost in those things. Because everyone, you know, I see a lot of strong kick players and you know, guys that have that play the snare fine. It's the hi-hat is so dynamic and so important, and it's sometimes this much of a little open that makes the difference between sounding like the guy on the record and not. So if you do get an opportunity on team hi-hat all the way, it's it's key.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:51

Honestly, yeah, arguably, besides kick and snare, like the most important nuanced instrument.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:56

It has to be, and you know, sometimes like um some of my influences are the ones that kind of led me there, like Jimmy Chamberlain from The Smashing Pumpkins. Oh, yeah. You know, following guys that were I'll I'll get back to why in a second, but like following trying to play along. You want to play Jelly Belly? Huh? Good good luck, dude. Like, I still have a trouble playing that one. I mean, like it's he's he has his own feel, but like trying to do that stuff and making I found a lot of um it was very helpful to try to play along to his stuff when I was really in that like smashing pumpkins rock phase of my life, you know. And then uh Chad Sexton again, because no one sounds like him on the snare and his little ghost notes and like getting those things super locked in, then Steve Jordan in everything that he does, and then again Chad Cromwell feeling that like kind of laid back thing that he does. Full circle moment about that. Yeah, the very first producer I worked with in town, and this is like 10 days after I moved to town, I just fell into this. I met AJ, and then a couple of days later. Oh, sorry, I met another person that introduced me to AJ a couple of days later. Paul Worley is the producer on like a bunch of the Dixie Chick stuff and Lady A stuff. He was working with an artist that I was doing gonna do a showcase with. There was the very first person I worked with who was like, oh my god, it's a sign, you know, and it was really cool to see how dialed in his ears were to that kind of thing. Yeah, um, and it was just acoustic, but like that was the first time I had ever heard like a next level producer listen to everything, and that's what geared my mind towards like how I was gonna approach Nashville entirely. So that was a really long way of saying, um, do the music justice by just learning it as close as you can to the original playing field. Putting yourself out there, there's a little bit more to that. Like I think that the real thing to remember is the time frame is you don't get to know. So don't stress. You don't get to know, no one tells you. And again, that would be kind of boring if it did, or it'd probably torture you mentally. Oh, it's gonna my break's gonna come, but it's nine years from now. Yeah, right. Well, you know what? You can meet someone, get married, and have a family, then it comes and you're in a like a cool, happy spot. You don't really know. Yeah, so don't stress about the time frame it's gonna take. Lots of people move in, lots of people move out. It's the ones that get to that that make a life for themselves here, not just a career, you know, not just a job, but like you planted roots, maybe you bought a house, maybe you got married, maybe it's like you're here. You'll eventually it will come. You will meet someone that invites you on a gig. And then maybe that one doesn't work out either. Just the next two. But if you're here as a career player, um that will definitely happen. Putting yourself out there for me was the coffee shop job, you know. Like I went out a little bit, but not like I wasn't like five nights a week, and then you end up getting into that FOMO thing. But again, it's all unpredictable. Well, what if I don't go out to this club and there's someone there that gets me the big break? Yeah, maybe, but you know what? I know it's not you don't know that either. So, like, why are you gonna go spend all your money? And that's a money. Let's talk about money. Yeah, let's talk about it. Give me all your money. Um, no, the thing about like having a job, that's one thing Rich said that was really important. Because some people move in, they got a little bit of a nest egg. Um, but two weeks before I moved to town, my Subaru Outbag engine exploded into flames. I had to replace the whole engine. Anything I had saved up, brutal. Yeah, bye. So, you know, starting off like in a rough spot made made it necessary for me to get the coffee shop job. Yeah, I just needed something. So not everything that happens to you is a bad thing on the other end of it. There's that, yeah. Um, a lot of this mentality too, you know, just sure the glass is always half full, you know, the sky's gonna fall, whatever. Yeah, uh, just don't be like that. So if you're a good personality and you have your shit together playing wise, just take some time. You'll eventually get there. That's that's kind of the only thing you can do. Yeah, man. Yeah, it's only so much you can control. Because a lot of the interactions that you guys have all probably had too have been just random. You know, oh yeah, I was just shopping for uh beeferoni at the store. Yeah, ran into this girl, Karen that I knew from another place I saw. Um her plumber actually is the writer on Kenny Chesney's fourth number 16 hit that you know, I don't know, like it's all so random.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:20

That was perfect, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:21

You know, plus yeah, there's the beeferoni plug for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:24

Well, I and I would also agree with you. Um I would say to cherish those early relationships because right, how many how often is it like three years later you get the call from someone that you met years prior? And and it maybe at the time seems so random. But people don't forget those gigs that you're on with them. You know if it's a random whiskey jam? Don't do the I was you know don't do the whiskey jam wobble.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:46

Don't do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:46

What's the whiskey jam wobble?

Whiskey Jam Wobble

SPEAKER_03 1:44:48

You know, uh you don't know what that is. What does that mean? I don't know how much it happens.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:52

Anything like the Cupid Shuffle?

SPEAKER_03 1:44:53

Kind of, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:54

In which case I suggest not doing either. The whiskey jam wobble.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:57

New whiskey. You know the whiskey jam wobble. Someone had coined, I don't know who coined this term, but uh, and I think Ward has done an incredible thing. And I love Ward, he's a great guy. Yeah, this is not against anything that happens of whiskey jam. This is just sometimes when you, at least at the when it was at winners, yeah, you're in a packed house and everyone's looking over your shoulder trying to see who else is there.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:23

And hey, I didn't forget that. I know who did that, I know who I was talking to when they're like not interested in talking to me. And I'm like, cool. All right, man. Well, I'm gonna go talk to someone else. Yeah, like if you're gonna take some time to talk to someone, like just talk to me.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:36

Be present.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:37

If you need to go, that's totally fine. But like, I don't forget the people, and you don't either, too. Like, maybe after some time, but yeah, that are looking over your shoulder, wobbling around.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:47

Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, I see. Yeah, man, hey, yeah, yeah. But like, I'm not here for you too.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:51

Oh, yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:52

Honestly, what's what's brutal, I'll tell you, is actually at the drum show, it'll be I'll be talking there too. It happens there, but I'll be talking with people, and then somebody will walk up and start trying to talk. And I'm like, I totally want to give you attention, like, but I'm like trying to have a conversation with a person. I'm like, now I feel I feel like I'm being rude to you. I'm like, give me one minute. Like, I don't want like you, but you gotta wait. Everybody's gotta we're having a conversation.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:19

Yeah, so this here you see Nate's finger is always like I'm like, one second.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:24

I love you. Give me a second.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:25

Like a lot of times we're in the middle of actually recording the conversation.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:28

It's like yeah, and people will just wake up. Don't do that. What's up, man?

SPEAKER_03 1:46:32

How's that meatball from I saw you eating yesterday? You know, yeah, or just maybe carry a clipboard to like you can sign up for chat, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:46:39

Dude, yeah, no, that's good though. And I would say the drum show is probably less like the drum show is more like um genuine. We're just homies trying to reconnect. But like whiskey jam, like, yeah, you can tell when people are just fishing for like, oh well, yeah, I'm looking for a gig or I'm looking for this person to talk to you.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:54

But it's literally not to stop you before you go in there, before you launch. I felt you're about to launch, but uh it's literally the fear of that exact thing. I'm like, I never want anybody I'm talking to to think that I'm like, I'm trying to go to the next conversation. You don't want to be there. Yeah, if if I have to do that, I'll be like, okay, I have to talk to them in one minute. Let's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:13

There's an asterisk. The asterisk is uh if you're there playing and you're like trying to look for your band because you're about to go on stage, that's not what I'm talking about. Yeah, for sure. Like if you like, dude, I'm so sorry. Like, I gotta go, I gotta go play. Can we just chat soon? Yeah, totally acceptable. You know, but like it does get into a point where you know it's it's rude, and I don't know, everyone, everyone's kind of done it at one point or the other. But that's you know, just be present in the moment, man. Yeah, man. You know, make people feel because you can't control how other people feel about you. Another circle point there.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:45

It's like, you know, definitely don't just walk away in the middle of a conversation that someone's having with you at the NAM show. Dave Elich. Anyway.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:57

Mid-combo?

SPEAKER_04 1:47:58

Mid combo. We gotta catch up about my lesson with DT.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:01

Yeah. I mean, that's a bold move.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:05

Yeah, just literally walked away in the middle of us talking and I was like, well, all right then. Wow. Very cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:10

You know, I'm gonna go as far as assume that like maybe he had an elevator somewhere at the NAM show. He had to meet someone in for a recipient gas. I don't know. You know, he might he might have had to go meet Boots. Like, I'm gonna I'm gonna embarrass myself by staying this conversation. There's gonna be something coming out. I gotta get to know. You never know. You never know. I don't know. I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:28

If you're gonna take him long enough for y'all gonna experience something, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:32

Yeah, I feel like um, well, I you know, that's the thing too. Trade show eticacy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's uh it's etiquette. Is that a word? Etiquette is

Platform Content Strategy

SPEAKER_03 1:48:44

more etiquette. Well, you know, here's another factor too. Let's talk about social media. Um one suggestion I would make to anyone is you know, if you really want to drive the social media page in one way or the other, don't post the same thing cross cross uh your all of your pages. Like you'll have bigger followings on one, like you'll you'll have your platform where there's like one bigger following than than the other. But I feel like it's way more necessary, and it doesn't always take a lot of extra effort to do this, is to vary your content by platform. So, like if you have TikTok, you know, try to dive into a little bit of like what that audience is there for. And usually it's pretty, you know, it's pretty quick. You know, they're not staying on for a long time. So part of that has to do with how you structure your posts and stuff like that. Um, you know, being creative, like this is just going into the the drummer posts that I like the most, the ones that like catch my eye, are ones that like would do what you were saying earlier. Like something, something unexpected in a part where you you know, you think something's coming. And that that could be just like kind of a gimmick, too. Um, but there's some players that have moved into town that like I think are honestly incredible and have gone a very a pretty long way in a very short time because the content has got them the work. I think like Zach Duby calling you out as every everyone knows already. He has not been here that long and he's so nasty.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:08

He's one he's one of the nastiest. Love that dude. Like two months, two months. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:11

And like everybody.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:13

So the point here's what we can all learn from this is that if you're good, everyone will know. Like it doesn't stay a secret for very long. Yeah. If you're Zach Doobie level, it's like, oh yeah, like I want to see more of your videos because like you're really, really good. So if you're trying to do that kind of thing, it's just finding your own unique voice within it. You don't always have he's elite level, but you don't always have to be there to be like something cool. Like maybe it's a creative, maybe you invent a clap thing or whatever, like a new instrument that you put on the kit and use in a different way. Uh, but it posting the same thing over and over and over and over is not gonna work just like it wouldn't work for a musician to just like, hey, my song's about to come out five weeks from now. Here's the chorus 17 times a day. So when it comes out, you absolutely don't want to have anything to do with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:09

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's yeah. So I mean that's a good idea. Vary the content per platform.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:14

If content is your main like source of how you want to get networking done or do an endorsement type thing or whatever it is, just think about it. Think about what the hell you want to do. Like, is it different? What makes you stand out? Yeah, are you playing a shuffle? Cool, like you know, what's what's cool about it? Like, sometimes it is cool to just see something cool and done well. I don't know. Like, is there's no one way to do it. So I guess these are all just like the the bottom line is like there's no rules to this stuff. There's a couple of like basic rules, but just like you know, if you're interesting, you'll see your numbers grow. Yeah, if you don't see your numbers grow, maybe you're not that interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:53

Yeah, and that that's a hard realization, I think, especially for artists.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:58

I used to be cool, but now I'm a dad with three kids and I love the kids, but like I'm probably less interesting of a character now. You're so cool. Are you kidding me? No, that's a cool podcast. Well, I hope so. Geez, you know, where's my check? Yeah, what we talked about this. What do you not pay me in kombucha this time? I got real bills. Where's my check? Where's my check?

SPEAKER_01 1:52:20

Saying that before the podcast is over is crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:24

No, I'm just kidding. That's great. Yeah, I know. Uh well, let me really quickly ask you guys like what what is the most annoying thing for you to see in your feed? Like, that's a good question. Because that's what's gonna immediately get you to go.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:41

We're talking drummer content.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:43

Mostly. Mostly, yeah. But like it sometimes they can kind of bleed together.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:48

I mean, definitely, but what sticks out is like guys just kind of chopping over over things unnecessarily.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:54

Unnecessary chopping. Um, take notes every month. Unnecessary chopping, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 1:52:57

But again, like I think someone like Zach is that's a sort of a different level. Yeah. Where it's like, yo, like you're just at a different level. Like, I'm okay with seeing. Uh you know, he's still like chopping, but it's like super creative.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:09

But you know he can play. Yeah. Like it's not a mystery, also, that like just sitting in the group.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:14

Well, oftentimes he's he'll it's like him soloing, and then he'll get back to the groove with the band. Yeah. Which is different than just someone in the in a basement just chopping out kind of thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:21

Well, and he'll all he also will just post content, although it doesn't receive nearly the response that him chopping does, but he will post just him playing sick grooves. Yeah. And the it's it's funny because you have to balance that out for people to go, oh yeah, I can see you can do both.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:37

Um if anything, us talking about it now is kind of helpful for people to figure out like what you want your brand to be sure in the world. And some people, like whenever you post about the hot topics, and if you want to do it, it's totally fine. But you know, it's naturally gonna drive a rift between certain people who like what you say and certain people that don't.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:55

Um, so if you're making those kind of choices, it comes at a cost of like you're probably gonna have some people not digging what you say. And if you care, then fine. But if not, then whatever. Right, that's part of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:06

Who do we just talk about this with? Of like the risk of because you know, there's some social media drummers that will kind of make their their brand off of like the silly stuff that happens on a gig. Yeah. Or like, oh, I can't believe I like mess up this part. I think was it Andrew? Um, and basically, like, you know, well, that's the perception. No, it was Jeffrey, it was Jeffrey Atomy.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:25

Yeah, it's like yeah, well, we have that, and I mean, obviously, you know, Molly Rose has yeah, they're she's kind of capitalized on a little bit of that. Exactly, right, right, right. And you know, Ethan's a a different version of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:38

Jeff was making the point of like, well, we all know those those friends of ours are fantastic players, and they're that's just kind of like they're capitalizing off of content versus people like maybe potential artists that don't know them. Yeah, or like, you know, oh, like you actually like, oh, you you forgot your drumsticks at the gig. Like, okay, you know that's not professional. Or it's actually a good point. Or like you you screwed out this part, that's or the tracks got screwed up, like, oh that's a turnoff. Like, why would I want to hire you? Man, you know, so yeah, you gotta be careful.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:03

Even sometimes, like I think sometimes it's cool, and I wish I used to film everything I did just for content, or honestly, sometimes it was just oh man, I'm not gonna name names, but there was one there's one gig I did. I know you know, we're trying to be respectful a little bit. We are, we are. There was a gig I had played at one time with an artist that would accuse me of doing like messing something up, and every time I was like, uh I film everything. Let me show you exactly how I didn't mess it up because I got it right here. And it I wasn't filming it initially as like a security thing, yeah, but you know, some people were pretty easy to point a finger, not realizing the actual problem is that their own gear was terrible and it was constantly breaking down. Yeah, but they were trying to blame it on the operator. I mean, I've got myself out of some hot water in that one just from saying it wasn't me. I swear, look, I hit the thing, it didn't fire off. I mean, that's it's what it is. So, you know, sometimes filming yourself can not just be for content purposes, could be like like insurance purposes. Yeah, it's not insurance, but like, you know, like just to prove you didn't do something, you know. Exactly. I wouldn't film yourself just for that unless that's a real problem. Yeah, but it ended up becoming paranoid, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:25

Getting called out, that might be a bigger issue. But yeah, no, I mean it didn't happen.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:28

You know, it was after they started realizing like it wasn't it wasn't me. Yeah, you know, back probably there was um different group, but there was one time, man. This was talk about nerve-wracking moments. Like the at this time, it was the biggest show I had ever played. It was at Salem Field in Buffalo, New York. Bro, you play there? I have a Salem Field story too. Really? Yeah, but I want to hear the first. We were opening for Tim McGraw and like Billy Currington. It was like, you know, we were not the the opener, but we were on the radio show, yeah. Uh some probably the same show in a different piece.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:12

I was filling for Shane Prophet. Yeah, it's probably the same exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:14

Yeah, but it was a cool, like, really cool show. I think there was probably like 20 something thousand people there. That's huge. And I'd never, I'd never, that was like a dream. I was like, oh my god, I've never, you know, gotten to play a stadium. Um, I have video of this. This is on my feed. You can find this of the tracks rig for this particular group, just the the interface straight up died. Part of it was it was not the the what was securing it into the case had broken. So it was for for weeks, months, just flopping around in there, never got fixed. And the day of the biggest show, like you know, it just died, didn't turn on. We had to have one of the runners go get another one, but it was an updated version, didn't configure the same way. So now we had to figure out how to get like at least a click because the way things were arranged on this stage, none of us could see anyone. The drums were so far back because everyone had risers and everything was getting stacked in front that I could see the guitar player to the right, could not see the bass player, could not see the vocalist, I could I couldn't see anything. Occasionally a little bit, but we had like we had to be on the same page. It was like a show, you know. We couldn't just we just couldn't do it like not seeing each other and no tracks and no cues and no nothing. So you can see on my my like the moment as they were announcing the band on stage is the very moment that I was able to run a click through my phone, press it. Unfortunately, I do this as another security thing. In my phone, I have the tempo app, and every even if I'm playing on tracks, this is the very last case scenario. Yeah, I will program the tempos for every song just in case we need to and have to get through a show or whatever the thing is. Maybe you just played without it.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:59

Dang so we finally just to go into that, like let's say the tracks click dies, but you can reference like your phone is not gonna be going to ears, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:59:09

No, it would be going like we had a the phone, it would be like a split off to a DI.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:14

Okay, so that was actually plugged in as a backup.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:16

Yeah, so I had uh we had to get a cable and but anyways, that was the long story long. Is that as they were announcing the band, boop, boop, like we all were like, thank god, and it was like that quick downbeat had to go. I have not fortunately been in a situation that was that like stressful, leading it right up to the show since I don't want to be again because we were like, oh, this is gonna be terrible. Ended up being the best show I played with that band. Not because not just because of the the audience, but like we were so scared and then we knew it was gonna be okay. Yeah, and we just we crushed it so hard in that one. Yeah. So it sometimes when it goes wrong, it's gonna be all right.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:56

Yeah, yeah. Some sometimes it going a little wrong can make can open some things up within your own self and it yeah, yeah, it gives it a little magic.

SPEAKER_03 2:00:07

Uh that's you know, that pressure can sometimes either cook you fully or just like make it so that your guard's a little bit down and because you're like, hey, I don't have control of this now. Let's just do it here. We're all here to do a thing, let's try it. You know?

Handling Mistakes During a Show

SPEAKER_04 2:00:20

Well, you know, I mean, I noticed this growing up in church and being in involved in a worship team. We would there would be, you know, we would rehearse and and get the songs dialed in and whatever. And then sometimes we would be playing them during service, yeah, and something would go wrong, and we would just once in a while be like, hold on, stop, let's start it over. And like acknowledging, even acknowledging the failure, and you know what the weirdest dang thing was? Every time that would happen, congregation sing twice as loud afterwards. No, really, it without fail. We're like, oh, there sometimes, you know, it's the to err is human, and they're what bring girls like, oh that these are people doing this thing. It's not, it's not uh, it's not programmed, it's not like it's not predestined to occur perfectly. People are doing this.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:13

In addition to that, I think a lot of what happens on stage, because you're the entertainers, they don't know what's happening. If you give them the cues that something is like really going wrong, they're gonna think that the whole show like it changes their perception of like what they think is going on up there. Like if you miss it, you know, if you miss it and you're visibly like you know, on stage and you get the bad attitude, yeah, like they can see you. Yeah, same thing with sometimes it's the it's the the vocalist, sometimes it's a guitar, like whoever is displaying the bad attitude. Yeah, like no, don't do that. Yeah, it's okay. Maybe you're nervous because like you were human for like a microsecond, and like you think you're gonna get like an ass reaming back.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:58

It's always just never as worse as you think it is.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:00

You know, some of the buddy rich tapes you've all heard. Like, you know, some I mean, not many people. You play clams, yeah. Yeah, I mean, there is high pressure, but also like you have to vibe that out to the audience, too. You gotta give them like the show they paid for. You know who I think is a pro, like super duper pro at that, and that just like you would never ever know that anything is ever going wrong. Do you guys know Butch Walker?

SPEAKER_04 2:02:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:22

Have you ever seen a Butch Walker show?

SPEAKER_04 2:02:25

Not in person.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:26

No, you wouldn't forget it. Like, it is it doesn't matter what's happening. Through like he plays excellent, but like if there's ever anything wrong, that's actually the fun part of the show. Yeah, like someone yelling out something fun from the audience, it's like you know, he's so good at being an entertainer, yeah. That like it's making all the little blemishes just like part of the better experience you're having. Yeah, so you could do that as a as a musician too. Just like not, you know, just let it fly over. Scared man. Just playing music here.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:51

Would you say Logan is good at that as well?

SPEAKER_03 2:02:53

Yeah, like you know, he's um and and also too, like Logan is he care, he very much cares about the quality of the show.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:03:01

Um, and he's he's never been bad at that at all, but like he has also gotten better at because it takes a little time, you know, to like experience it and then figure out how do I how do I do this live. He's gotten better at incorporating that kind of thing into the show. So yeah, Logan, Logan definitely, you know, he handles himself well in there. Tell your mama I love her. Bye. That's a that's a that's a sad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:26

Well, we do gotta wrap this up, unfortunately. I mean, no, we're here, dude. You're not gonna be able to do that. You have to stay. Do you want to check or not, Wes?

SPEAKER_04 2:03:33

Bye, guys.

Music City Audiology (Sponsor)

SPEAKER_04 2:03:34

Hey drummers, are you worried about losing your hearing? Did you know noise exposure can cause permanent hearing loss? Dr. Jason Baker with Music City Audiology provides mobile concierge services to musicians in Nashville and surrounding areas. That's right. He is 100% mobile and will come to you. If you need ear impressions, custom in-ear products, ear cleaning, hearing tests, or information about protecting your ears, he's your guy. Music City Audiology cares about drummers and wants to help you maintain your most valuable tools, your ears. Visit MusicCityAudiology.com to book your console today. That's MusicCityAudiology.com.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:17

A quick wraparound. Yeah. So I know we can we can plug unplug the cameras and you can tell me that terrible story for sure.

Guitar Hero Drum Lore

SPEAKER_03 2:04:25

Interesting fact, rapping to guitar uh guitar hero. So the band that they used on Guitar Hero was actually a Green Day tribute band called Dookie. The lead singer of which was the main uh craftsman at Noble and Cooley. Yeah, it all comes back to Noble and Coolie. Or he was there for a long time. Lou Scouso, who I promise you is one of the best drum builders and drum painters that exist in this industry. He's amazing. But yeah, he also is, I don't know if he's a voice actor, but like he he has the ability to do that. And so his Billy Joe, I mean, it was good enough to use in the game, like it's spot on. But yeah, they used him and his band in the track for that game. No kidding. We're everywhere, and actually, most of the Noble and Cooley or most of those Green Day records are noble and cooley snares, anyways. Really? Yeah, Trey Cool. They actually almost had one called the Trey Cooley once, I think. They were trying to work on that.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:25

Oh, come on. Yeah, low hanging for the case.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:28

Actually, at the one at the Super Bowl, when he did that thing, it was like a Ludwig Noble and Cooley combo snare. They did that tulip one. That was, yeah. So he's still he's still a fan. Wow. How cool is that? That's that's it. That's what I got, boys.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:41

That's it, man.

Rapid Fire Questions

SPEAKER_01 2:05:42

All right, let's do some quick uh quick wrap-up questions. Sure. These would be more quick rapid fire, yeah. Well, you wrote down what to look for in a quality pair of slippers. Yeah. As uh a topic that you wanted to discuss.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:54

So the quick version of that is you know, sometimes like on a bus, I always keep like a pair of slippers next to the bed, and then the shoes like in a in a pull-out drawer.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:04

So a quality pair of slippers to me should be one that has like a solid bottom so that in the middle of the night you stop at that you know pilot station, you can kind of go in, use the bathroom, get snacks.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:13

So you could wear them outside the bus.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:14

Wear them outside the bus. They gotta have a little wool inside because during the cold months, everyone's you know, cold, you're toasty and cozy. Uh that's that's really it. Is there a brand you recommend? Um, no, no, because I don't know. Um there was, and I I totally forget the name, but they're like brown, they look like they belong in like a number two.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:34

Put it in the show notes once you figure it out.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:36

Yeah, we'll link yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:37

So yeah, you get drummers, you got link in description. Get some good gear, snare, in ears, drumsticks, and slippers. Gotta add that to their arsenal. That's it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:43

Especially ears have been a huge one. Uh, last thing I'll mention about this. Yeah. Ears being uh we all upgraded our ears this past year. Ours weren't sealing that well. It made the world a difference. So if you guys are struggling, you know, with leaking coming in, well, that sounds terrible, but like sound coming in your ears. Um I did the Sensiphonics 2 max because they have a silicone um base, like that it's it's made of medical grade silicone. So the seal is incredible. Kind of sucks to get the impressions, they're pretty deep, but like I thought that's what you want. Yeah, because they're they flex with your ear so that you can move your face around and you know, like open your jaw real well. I sing a lot too. Okay, I'm probably as good of a singer as I am drummer. Really? And that's one of the things that I totally forgot to mention or talk about. But um, yeah, like you know, I sing, I love doing background vocals. And even if it's a song that I'm used to doing background vocals on, there's no microphone, I'll still do it because like if you're just used to it.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:37

Uh so if you sing and you play a solid pair of ears that that have good isolation, even more important. Yeah, and the two max is only two drivers because it seals so well that all of your bass frequencies are are kept. Like you don't lose anything. So that's you, I don't need any more than two drivers. Cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:53

Slippers and ears. All right.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:55

Uh there is a question I've been wanting to know the answer to, and I just don't I don't know if you're the right guy to ask or not, but it seems like I should just take a shot at it. Um, what is the difference between a sweet potato and a yam?

SPEAKER_03 2:08:09

Oh, well, I guess I would say it's probably the part of the country like soda, you know, era pop. Okay. It's probably it's the same thing. I mean, as far as I know, it's the same thing. I could be very wrong about that, but I've had yams for Thanksgiving and sweet potatoes. Yeah. And they tasted exactly the same to me.

SPEAKER_04 2:08:24

They seem like they suspiciously they seem like the same thing. I'm like, are these, I don't know, these synonyms, or is this just like, am I just not understanding? I just want to just know.

SPEAKER_03 2:08:33

Yeah, they're gonna probably I mean, there's gotta be like a cultural story behind that. Oh, you see, in the seventh century, um, when Broderick looked over at his missus and said, Your yams are looking particularly lovely this Thanksgiving evening. And she was a little offended by that. Like, no man, they're just sweet potatoes.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:50

And that's marketing, folks. All right, uh, last question, I think, for us here is um just to wrap it up with food. And Nashville. Yeah, give us some of your favorite places in town. Yeah. Uh either coffee or drinks or food or sandwiches, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:04

That's getting to be a harder question to ask because every two days you go down to Nashville, it's like, wow, another James Beard award-winning shift has opened up a complex, you know, whatever it's, which is great. Um, little has meatball sub. My best spot. I mean, what else do you need really than like this, you know, basically feed a family of 12? Still have not been over there.

SPEAKER_04 2:09:25

I've been dying to, and I got invited to go tomorrow, but I'm gonna be in a freaking rehearsal, and I want a freaking meatball sub so bad.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:32

Don't worry. Buy it on the way. What time's your rehearsal? Uh 11 a.m. Yeah, you can do 9 a.m. meatball sub. Don't look, don't look weak to me. Well, what are they open? Look at this Viking ass hair you got.

SPEAKER_04 2:09:47

Um, well, okay, where is it located? Because I gotta I gotta do it.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:51

There's a couple locations that got you covered. They got one over enjoyment down over there. Okay. You know, uh, they're probably not open till like 11, but uh yeah, that's that's the place you want to go. All right, what else? So for coffee, um I I'm always partial to Osa for coffee.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:05

Yeah, I love that spot.

SPEAKER_03 2:10:07

And that's that's part of the Edge Hill tie-in, too. My my buddy Jack uh owns that place, but cool, you know, he's a great guy, and they've always made super, super great coffee. So shout out to Osa.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:17

They always have good croissants too.

unknown 2:10:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:10:20

Yeah, absolutely. That's a key part of it. You know, a little snack with that. Yeah, um, another thing is, let's see. God, there's just so many places to eat now. I'm like, um I really like hot chicken? I do. Now my wife definitely disagrees with me on this, but like straight up Hattie B's, I like Hattie B's. Oh, that's fine. Yeah. What's your wife like? She hates chicken, period. Oh. So she doesn't care where I go. It's like chicken, you hard pass. She's like, no. But like she really doesn't like Hattie B's. Like, but I do, you know, I usually spice level is medium on average or hot. I don't do like the spice level that makes you regret like ever being born. That's sure.

SPEAKER_04 2:11:00

You're trying to you're trying to enjoy some spice and not you're not trying to punish yourself for something you did.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:06

Yeah, well, also they have these um bean boozled, you know, those jelly bellies. Yeah. The ones that have like disgusting flavors. They have like heat ones, so you get like five or six different levels of like hot jelly bean. It's always a good one to mix in there in case someone's like, you know, not gonna trust you. They'll extra not trust you. Oh yeah. Heat beans, baby. Heat beans. Okay. Yeah. So I mean, I would say those are my the ones I could think of off the top of my head, but you know, yeah, I'll have to dial in. I'll circle back later. Because that's that's all I can think of is the what I want right now. Yeah, or to deck tie was good, too. Deg Type was really good. Yeah, deck tie is solid. Yeah, yep. There's a lot of places that ruin Thai food, but that one does not. Yeah, that's pretty good. That was great. Uh, and also one last thing Honey Fire Barbecue has they're good all the way around, but like their dry rub wings. I don't usually like dry rub.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:56

I love wings, I like dry rub.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:57

Where's honey fire? It's like a Coca-Cola dry rub that. They use in there. I don't know what exactly it is. They have one in Bellevue and they also have one in the assembly food hall. Yes, they do.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:06

Oh, okay. And they gave me a big fat tray of meat one day because they were just like we're we're closing up, and there's yeah, I had a whole bunch of pulled pork for free. That's a that is a treat.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:18

Pulled pork for free.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:19

Really, I think it was more the fact that I was talking to I was getting a milkshake from whatever that uh Hattie Jane's right right there.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:26

Great ice cream.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:27

And I think one of the one of the guys over at Honey Fire was like trying trying to like make it happen with the girl serving milkshakes. And so he brought over a big trade of tray of meat for her, and she was like, You want some of this?

SPEAKER_03 2:12:38

I was like, sure, I'll take the what a traditional gift.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:41

I think I would be interested in dating you. Here's a big old tray of meat.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:45

That would work for me, huh?

SPEAKER_04 2:12:47

I mean, what else do you want? He's literally bringing home the bacon.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:51

I'll be your favorite mistake.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:57

All right. Leave the people with your uh social media where people can get a hold of you.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:01

Okay. My handle is Bork Chop. So I'll spell it. B-O-U-R-Q-U-E. QU. Chop. Yeah. That's why, you know, it's hard to pronounce.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:12

Not to be confused with Jelly Rolls Pork Chop. Yeah, actually.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:17

Cody, let's hang. We gotta do a Bork chop, pork chop X, you know, Bork chop X pork chop or something.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:25

Oh, that would be a wild one.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:26

That'd be a wild one. Yeah, he's great. Yeah. Great player. I love him smashing beers up and you know, doing the whole thing. Yep. Uh maybe we'll smash kombucha, just you know, same. Yeah, smash kombucha. It'll be a big good plug for the show. Uh but yeah, at Bork Chop is is the handle or uh Wesley Burke. I pronounce it Burke, by the way, which is weird. Burke, okay. Yeah, don't know this is a longer story.

SPEAKER_04 2:13:46

Um but do you pronounce it that way because it is pronounced that way?

SPEAKER_03 2:13:52

We pronounce it that way because my family has always said Burke, even though phonetically it's Bork.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:59

And I went against the grain at one point because I was like, That's your fault. I need to know why I can not pronounce my own last name. I'm the only person that doesn't know how to do it. French Canadian. Turns out some went to New England, said Burke. Some went to Louisiana, said Bork. No rhyme or reason. Just said some people said it this way, some people said it that way. So I I established Bork Chop to like Bork is the way you do it, but then out of respect out of respect for my family, you know, I went back to Burke. So flip-flopping. Love it. That's it. So yeah. Still you. Yeah, either way is correct. Other way. Hey, family. That's right. That's right. All right.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:34

Wesley was so good having you having you on finally. Hey, thank you guys. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 2:14:38

I hope you learned something, and uh, I'm sorry about the IQ drop from some of those stories. You'll get it back.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:42

I know. But we want more stories next time. I got some. Dude, hell yeah. Cool.

SPEAKER_04 2:14:47

See you boys.

Outro

SPEAKER_04 2:14:52

Thanks for listening to this episode of the Nashville Drummers Podcast. If you liked it, please consider leaving us a review on the Apple Podcast app. Please consider supporting us on Patreon. For $5 a month, you can help support this dream and keep the ball rolling for us. Believe it or not, it's not free or even necessarily cheap for us to make this thing go. To sign up, go to patreon.com slash Nashville Drummers Podcast or click the link in our Instagram bio. All of your help is greatly appreciated.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:19

Visit our website, Nashville DrummersPodcast.com, where you can listen to all past episodes, learn more about myself and Nate, and buy all your favorite Nashville Drummers Podcast merch, including t-shirts, tank tops, sweatshirts, hats, and drum heads. Connect with us on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and YouTube at Nashville Drummers Podcast. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:52

Well, if I can make it all okay, but I'm save it back from the fucking motherfucker.