126 - Judy Colaneri: The Camino Changed Everything

What if a walk changed the entire trajectory of your life? For Judy of Spanish Steps, a spontaneous decision to walk the Camino de Santiago in 1994 sparked a journey that would transform everything.

00:00 Preview
00:53 How a gift started it all
03:00 Meeting her Camino Family
15:06 How the Camino Tour Company, Spanish Steps, Started
24:34 How the Camino de Santiago has changed
29:07 Splitting time between the US and Spain
33:17 Tips for moving to Spain
45:39 Falling in Love on the Camino

When Judy first set foot on the Camino, she walked alone through dusty wheat fields, not encountering a single pilgrim for days. The pilgrim experience was vastly different then—no smartphones, no apps, just a guidebook and the occasional payphone for making expensive international calls. At an albergue in Puente la Reina, everything changed when she met a group of international pilgrims—including a handsome Spanish man named Juan Carlos who would later become her husband.

This captivating conversation reveals how their Camino romance blossomed into a 30-year partnership that includes running Spanish Steps, a company that has guided countless groups across various Camino routes. Judy shares the remarkable story of how she asked Santiago for a sign about whether to start guiding pilgrims, only to have her press release published in the LA Times a month later—launching her unexpected career.

Beyond the business side, Judy offers intimate insights into the challenges and rewards of expat life in rural Spain. Having renovated an old farmhouse in Asturias into a boutique hotel, she speaks candidly about language barriers, integration challenges, and why maintaining connections to your home country might be the wisest approach for Camino-inspired dreamers.

Whether you're contemplating your first Camino or fantasizing about opening an albergue someday, Judy's three decades of wisdom provide both inspiration

Chapters

• 0:18 Meeting Judy from Spanish Steps
• 1:15 First Camino Experience in 1994
• 4:51 Life Before the Camino
• 10:15 From Solo Hiker to Tour Guide
• 19:25 Finding Home in Northern Spain
• 34:00 Practical Advice for Expat Dreams
• 45:40 A Camino Love Story
• 54:23 Episode Closing

Transcript

Leigh Brennan: 0:18

Welcome to the Camino Cafe podcast. I'm Leigh Brennan, your host. Here's a little preview on what's coming up in today's very special episode.

Judy Colaneri: 0:28

Sat down in front of the apostle in Santiago and I basically said if you want me to do this, you'll show me a sign you walk your first Camino and there's this cute Spanish guy who suddenly enters your life.

Leigh Brennan: 0:45

It's the miracle of the Camino Pilgrims. We are in for a treat. Today. I am sitting here with Judy from Spanish Steps. You may have walked with her on a tour. She's been leading tours for quite some time and I just got introduced to her by a mutual friend and I found her story captivating and I can't wait for her to share it here today with all of us. So, Judy, you started walking a while ago, so let's talk about how did you find out about the Camino in the first place?

Judy Colaneri: 1:15

Well, I had a sort of a work partner, a gal by the name of Cookie de Funes, who's from Haka and she's, you know, she lives right on the Camino. So one year her parents were coming over to visit and she asked them to bring a guidebook for me, because I'd already been traveling quite a bit, and she wanted me to go walk the Camino. And I thought, okay, well, so the parents, her parents, came over, gave me a guidebook, I put it away and then that was probably in 1989 or something like that it was one of the very first Camino, modern Camino guidebooks. And then finally I decided I would go walk it. The whole year had already happened, that was in 1993. And so it kind of gave a little lift to the Camino and I thought, okay, well, cookie, I'm going to come over and walk it. Can you walk it with me? And she said, no, I can't, I just found a new job and I'm not going to be able to take off for a while. So she invited me to come, stay at her house and do some hikes from there. So she drove me up to the Pyrenees, up to the top of the Pyrenees, to Sanport, the Col de Sanport, and I just, you know, took a couple days, walked back to Jaca and then continued on from there and I walked Jaca to Puente Lorena, where all the roots joined and I was completely alone. There was not one other pilgrim in sight. So I kind of thought, boy, when I get to Puente Lorena, if I don't need anybody. I mean, this is kind of you're out in a wheat field for 32 kilometers and there's no bars. I mean it's like it was really rural and primitive and I thought, you know, not that I was looking for bars, but there was no life, you know, it was just wheat fields, dusty wheat fields. From Jaca, I mean there's. So you walk along the Rio Aragon and things like that. But you know, when you really got into it it was like 28 kilometer days, 32 kilometer days all alone.

Judy Colaneri: 3:13

So I got to Puente Larina, took a, asked the monks at the, at the Albergue there, if I could take a rest day because I wanted to go see Pamplona. So I left, I packed up my pack, left it in the corner, went up to Pamplona, walked around for the day, came back and there was this whole crew of pilgrims and there were Brazilians and a man from New Zealand, a German guy, a couple of Spaniards and some French people and I think we totaled about 10 or 12 people and then this really handsome Spanish man. So that was my Camino family. So we took off. I didn't really know the protocol because I'd been by myself for so many days. So everybody, you know, got up at the crack of dawn and started packing their backpacks and you know the walking sticks falling on the floor and the plastic bags and water running and I thought, oh no, you know this is breaking my silence, what's going on here. So I just waited for everybody to clear out so I could go use the bathroom and just kind of take my time, because I wasn't used to this sort of intense rush to get out of the albergue. And then I put my backpack on, started walking and then throughout the day I started meeting up with those people that were at the Albergue the night before and it was like, oh, weren't you there last night? And you know it. Just kind of you started meeting people you know the people that were there and then we got to.

Judy Colaneri: 4:36

I got to Estella, I sat down in the plaza, had a few beers I hadn't found the Albergue yet and then it started to get late and I thought, oh, I better go find this place. And it was up on the top of the hill at that time way, pretty far out of town, actually, kind of over by the bullring. And I get there and everyone's like where have you been? We've been waiting for you, we're going to dinner. So I didn't know that there was already this family and I just threw my backpack on the bed and I said I'm ready, let's go.

Judy Colaneri: 5:05

So we went down to the plaza and you know, juan Carlos, who had already walked the Camino during the whole year, the year before, you know, he took control and it was like okay, we're going to order, you know, sausage and tortilla de patata. And you know. So he kind of took control and just started ordering all the food for everybody. And he asked me you know, tell them what this is and tell them what that is, because it was really a multilingual group and English was the common language. So suddenly I'm like thrown into this translator situation with this guy that I just met and you know, I kind of think the rest is history, you know.

Judy Colaneri: 5:39

So we just started walking and you know, we all walked to Santiago together and it was a group of 10. There were a couple people that joined up, a few people that dropped out, but for the most part we were 10 people in those villages in 1994. That's it Today. As you know, as you get closer to Santiago there's, you know, from Saria on, there's, during the peak season, there's usually like a thousand people in that section of the Camino. I mean, but if you go up to the Norte or down to the Camino Portuguese or the one that comes up from Orense I forget the name of that one the Via de la Plata, the one that comes up from Sevilla and crosses over, anyway, you know, those are a lot quieter than the Sarietta-Santiago Trail, for sure.

Leigh Brennan: 6:25

Now, this is 94, so there really aren't any apps about the Camino. I'm imagining Did you have a smartphone with you, Did you? No, they didn't exist.

Judy Colaneri: 6:34

I remember the first time I saw a guy on a cell phone and I was like, wow, that's a novelty. So in 94, there, really, it wasn't there yet. I mean there was no. I didn't even have email, you know. I mean it wasn't. You went to a phone, a telephone, and you went to a pay phone and made your phone calls then. So there were no apps. I mean today, oh my gosh, it's so different now it's so different. So completely different.

Leigh Brennan: 6:58

Did you take that guidebook that your friend had given you? I did.

Judy Colaneri: 7:10

I carried that guidebook and I carried, you know, the last chapter of James Michener's book Iberia is about the Camino. So I had that section of the book with me and I would read it, read passages out of that, and yeah, that was pretty much it. And then that article from the Smithsonian Magazine I think it was from 93, that told about the whole year and the Camino. I had that with me too so I had some references, but it wasn't until later on, like I don't know when, you know 98, maybe, when cell phones and you could just make a regular cell phone call you know flip phones and not even really a smart you know smart smartphone as we are today, you know. So it was quite a. It's what it was, that's what you did, you know.

Leigh Brennan: 7:52

Yeah, now you at that time. So back at that time frame, you were living in the US and what were you doing, like what was going on in life before you decided to take this walk? What was going on in life?

Judy Colaneri: 8:03

before you decided to take this walk. Well, I've been living in Aspen, colorado, for many, many decades now and I used to run a catering company. So at that time I was catering, so I worked winters and summers and I had two months off in the spring and two months off in the fall. So what do you do? You travel. Everything shuts down in a ski resort, so you travel. So that's how I ended up on the Camino.

Judy Colaneri: 8:26

It was during my off season that I decided to go walk the Camino and I just kind of I would always travel. I traveled prior to that, you know, south America and Nepal and all over the place, but the Camino, you know, was a new journey and thought I'd go do that. And then, while I was on that trip, I did meet a man. He was German and he had set out this was in 94 on that trip. He'd set out from his house in Hamburg, germany, which is Northern Germany, and he was already into his fifth month, I believe. And he said to me it was kind of early on, I think it was maybe a little bit after Puente Lorena, that I met him. He was a fast walker, so he just kind of walked by us. He said, oh, I'm on my last month. And I looked at him and I said, oof, I'm on my first month. So he had been already walking for five months.

Judy Colaneri: 9:24

And that was winter. He left his house January 1st in Hamburg, germany, so you can imagine what he went through. And he said the scariest part of his journey was running down the railroad track because a TGV was on his heels, you know. He saw it coming. He thought, oh it's, you know, going to be 20 minutes before it gets here, and he had to run down that it was like a bridge type track in order to get ahead of the TGV. So that was you know. So the stories you hear along the Camino are also part of become part of your Camino, you know, absolutely.

Leigh Brennan: 9:59

So okay, so now you're walking that first Camino. You're based in Aspen, you're getting ready to come back because you've got your catering business to come to. Yeah, starting up, but a little something happened on that Camino, right, right. So let's talk about that. Let's talk about this handsome Spanish man.

Judy Colaneri: 10:17

Yeah, I met this Spanish guy and you know, towards the end we were just holding hands and singing and skipping along the trails and having a great old time. So when I got on that train in Santiago to take it back to Jaca to see Cookie before coming back to the US, it was pretty sad, you know. I thought, oh, I'm never going to get to see this guy again. So, but we managed, you know we managed. He ended up coming over in the fall. So, but we managed, you know we managed. He ended up coming over in the fall. He came over to the US in the fall for a few months and we did some road trips around at, you know, the Grand Canyon in California and things like that, from Colorado, camping and just exploring.

Judy Colaneri: 10:58

And then I had it in me to walk that section when I met the German man who had to run in front of the TGV. He had walked the La Puy route. He somehow picked up the La Puy route while he was coming down from Hamburg and he said that that was a fabulous route and you know that's another one I should check out. So the next year I decided to go back and that was 95, and walk from La Puy to Santiago. So that was like I don't know, like almost a 10-week. It was almost 10 weeks, I think, of hiking through the French countryside and that was also very rural and there was nobody around, nobody, nobody, nobody, until we reached Saint-Jean-Pierre-de-Port.

Judy Colaneri: 11:38

And then we met some pilgrims, but it was like gray, it was springtime so it could be a little bit gray. You know, things were just starting to bud. But it was rural France, which is fabulous.

Leigh Brennan: 11:55

I have not walked that one yet, yeah it's really beautiful route. When you say we so did Juan Carlos go with you. Well, actually no, two other friends, he couldn't get away from work at that time. When you say we so did Juan Carlos go with you.

Judy Colaneri: 12:03

Well actually no. Two other friends they were two other. He couldn't, he couldn't get away from work at that time. So he drove us up to the starting point and you know, we said our goodbyes there in La Puy and then he joined us in Bellarado. That year he came up and joined up with us in Bellarado. So yeah, he did walk a little bit, but not the French, not in France.

Leigh Brennan: 12:25

And you said he was a pilgrim before, so he had walked during the holy year right, so an experienced pilgrim.

Judy Colaneri: 12:30

Yeah, he'd walked the year before, in 93. I think he started in Pamplona, pamplona.

Leigh Brennan: 12:46

I'm not sure if he started from Roncesvalles. He probably started from Roncesvalles, why wouldn't you? So somewhere in Nevada he started, okay, so you know, I know, I know that you ended up in Spain, so take us there. How did the decision come about that you decided to pack up everything and move to Spain?

Judy Colaneri: 12:55

Well, I, I really didn't pack everything up. It's sort of been this split personality, if you will. I still come and go. And it was because of him. I always thought, well, how can I keep myself in Spain? And it was because of Juan Carlos. And then I thought, well, you know, I'm going to, maybe I can start bringing some groups over.

Judy Colaneri: 13:18

I'll see if I can rally up a few friends and some people to come walk with me and be, you know, start a little tour company, but just enough to pay for my plane ticket. I didn't think it was ever going to blow up into a full-time job, and so an old friend of mine gave me a list of travel editors from the different major newspapers around the country and I sat down and I sent them a press release and the first one to pick it up was the LA Times and the first person to sign up for one of my trips was a travel writer from the Minneapolis Star Tribune. Wow, this fabulous article. And it just got syndicated. It kept coming out in different newspapers around the US, around Canada, australia, around English-speaking countries. I don't know if it in different newspapers around the US, around Canada, australia, around English-speaking countries. I don't know if it ever came out in the UK, but it was.

Judy Colaneri: 14:11

I could tell where people were from. I mean, I could tell that it came out in a certain newspaper because suddenly I'd be getting all these phone calls Before internet, remember, I was getting phone calls from Kansas City and I was getting phone calls from Los Angeles and San Francisco. And then years later, 2001, I think it was the San Francisco Chronicle wanted to rerun that article. So they got a hold of me. They were doing a special in their magazine on pilgrimage, the San Francisco Chronicle magazine, and they wrote they kind of rewrote the story and then it included my website and email address and 800 number and all that stuff. But and then it just it just took off. It just kept kind of percolating like that.

Leigh Brennan: 14:56

So how did that feel? I mean, here you are, you've walked this pilgrimage because of this random friend of yours. Now you've met this guy. Now, all random, a friend of yours, now you've met this guy.

Judy Colaneri: 15:06

Now, all of a sudden, you're in all these newspapers yeah, it's pretty overwhelming because I'm not, I'm not seeking fame and fortune or anything like that, I just wanted to take people hiking, you know? Um, I, I think I I told you when we were having a phone conversation that I sat down in front of the apostle in Santiago and I basically said, if you want me to do this, you'll show me a sign, because that was my third Camino at that point. And I said you'll show me a sign if you want me to. You know, lead people on the Camino.

Judy Colaneri: 15:49

And so that's when the article, that little press release, came out in the LA Times. It came out like a month later and then the phone started ringing. So I really attributed it to Santiago and also to the woman that wrote the article. I have to give her a lot of credit for that, because it was a beautiful article. So that was, yeah, how do I feel about it? Yeah, I just got goosebumps from that, because it was pretty moving to know that Santiago was by my side. You know he was on his white horse and walking right beside me. You know, walking right beside me you know.

Leigh Brennan: 16:23

So there are the obstacles and making it come to life. That must have been incredible hearing the phone ring. Yeah, it was, it was. They don't have the same things really, at this point Like today, you would have been on Facebook, you would have been, you know.

Judy Colaneri: 16:38

Oh yeah, yeah, you know, I was still running my catering company, which was called Lucia's Catering, so I'd be like Lucia's Catering, um Spanish steps, you know. So I was like, oh, what do I do here, you know. So then I became, you know, I we got really, really pretty, we got very busy, and so I just ended up letting the catering company go, just because I wanted to focus on this more.

Leigh Brennan: 17:02

So so have you kept count of how many Caminos you've walked?

Judy Colaneri: 17:07

I think, me personally, I've probably walked about 10, but I've led I don't know how many maybe 500 groups, and I also have other people that assist me, that work with me, that have led a lot of groups too.

Leigh Brennan: 17:24

So, as far as I'm sorry. Did you say 500? Yeah, probably About 500 groups. How many people are we talking then? Oh well, groups.

Judy Colaneri: 17:35

You know our groups are relatively small. There are maybe 10,. You know, if it's a big group it's usually a private group of like 20 people, of a big group of friends, church groups. In a year, yeah, we can take about 500 people nowadays.

Leigh Brennan: 17:53

Wow, so okay. So 500 you've led, let's say, 10 went. Oh my goodness.

Judy Colaneri: 18:00

Well, maybe I'm getting the math wrong, but I'm thinking overall. I mean me personally, because I remember people that worked for me. So you know at the end of the year, when we look at spreadsheets and things like that, how many people signed up for trips with us. And these are not just this is just not the Camino Franceses, it's the Camino Portuguese, the Camino del Norte, the Via Francigena in Italy, the Camino in France, so you know it's just all these different routes that we have going on at one time.

Judy Colaneri: 18:29

So how many a year? So maybe 50, 50 groups, let's say 50 trips a year, like, say, 10 people average. You know Amazing.

Leigh Brennan: 18:35

What is it like holding space for that many pilgrim experiences? Like when you look back and reflect we're getting ready to start the Camino season, right, so doors are starting back up, everything's going. What is it like to lead something like that? Because I feel what I you know my contribution with the podcast and hearing people say, oh, I heard this on an interview and so I decided to walk, but you've been a space holder for thousands of people.

Judy Colaneri: 19:09

Yeah, it's been a lot, but you know it's also really beautiful. I can't tell you how many people that I've become close with because of this. I'm going to New York this weekend and I'm going to get together with some pilgrims. They're going to come and see me from—they're in Connecticut, but they're, you know, and they're really dear to my heart. So what does it feel like? You know, sometimes you have to sort of draw a line to detach yourself a little bit from there's just so much energy coming at you, so you have to kind of know where your space is. And I'm sure you probably have that with teaching yoga too, because there's a lot of that.

Leigh Brennan: 19:52

And living in Santiago. I was in the destination city for three years and yes, that's exactly what you're talking about.

Judy Colaneri: 20:00

Yeah, but for the most part you have to be present. It's just being present all the time and caring, giving I mean I don't know, I just feel like you're present, I feel like you really have to be in a space that offers assistance and guidance and not just turn left at the yellow arrow. You know, you just have to. Everybody is going through their own thing, so you sort of have to analyze and see what people are going through, you know. So I mean not everybody. There's a lot of people that just come and they're like, yeah, this is another hike that we're, it's in our, on our bucket list, which that term just bugs me sometimes. But you know, but there's a lot of very, very experienced travelers and have done a lot of spiritual, other spiritual walks around the world too, so they're sort of prepared for it. It might be. For some people might be easier. This might be an easier trek if they've gone on treks around Nepal and India, bhutan.

Judy Colaneri: 21:11

You know those can be really really physically challenging and on the Camino it can be physically challenging for a lot of people. But we try to make it as comfortable for people as possible too. So you know, on our tours we do have a support van. So that can you know. We assist people in that too, if people want to, if they can't walk. We don't want to see anybody hurting, you know. We don't want to hurt anybody, you know. So it's like, okay, we need to jump in the van. But you know, we try to, we really try to nudge people to break through their limits, you know, and see if they can break out of whatever it is that they're holding back. Maybe no-transcript.

Judy Colaneri: 22:06

I think for me personally it's running back into people I've met on other Caminos over the years, whether I'm walking by myself or I'm guiding. And then you know we do these lunches and things like that, you know, kind of a little bit off the Camino, out of the back of the van, and sometimes you know if we have extra food or we just, you know, find somebody compatible. It's like, oh, come sit with us, tell us your story. You know that person that's walked from northern Germany or Holland or wherever, and you know then, like a year later, two years later, I run into them again, like almost in the same place. You know I can't say those are funny stories, but those are like, wow, what's? You know how did that happen? You know, how did we just happen to be at the same place at the same time? So those coincidental moments, I think, are really impactful for me. Funny stories, yeah, they're there, but I just can't think of any offhand right now. I can't. I'll see if, while we're still talking, if there's anything else that comes up.

Leigh Brennan: 23:06

So you know for you personally what's your favorite path to walk. Do you have one?

Judy Colaneri: 23:11

You know I love the Camino in France. I think it's stunning. I really think the La Puy to Saint-Jean is gorgeous. I really do, because it's a lot of dirt. You're not on pavement so much. The Camino Primitivo is really nice. It's a lot more challenging but I think there's a little bit more. There's quite a bit of pavement on that route. I find the San Salvador from León to Oviedo is stunning, but those are really mountainous. The Primitivo and the San Salvador are really much more challenging.

Leigh Brennan: 23:50

There's serious climbs involved in those you know you wouldn't recommend them to the first timer, right? No, I mean, if you're an experienced mountain hiker.

Judy Colaneri: 24:01

Sure, absolutely. But yeah, those can be pretty daunting if you've never really hiked in the mountains before, but they're beautiful. Less infrastructure along the way so you're not going to find. You know a lot of albergues and bars and things like that that are open all the time. But you know they're there and you just have to be more prepared because it is a different Camino. You know those are different Caminos, but favorite I think the Norte is absolutely stunning. I think the Camino del Norte is beautiful, so just kind of, whatever you look for, but I think the classic Camino Frances is really special. That one's a really special one to my heart, so I really like that one and the history and the monasteries and the churches that you see along the way on that route. It's really, you know, rich in spirituality and religion and art and that's nice.

Leigh Brennan: 24:52

Yeah, so when you look back you know you've been walking for 30 years.

Judy Colaneri: 24:58

Yeah, yeah.

Leigh Brennan: 25:00

Obviously we can't change the pace of technology and all the things that have happened. But when you look back and you think, wow, you know what has changed, you know what's your observation of the differences between walking in 94 to walking now?

Judy Colaneri: 25:21

It is definitely. There's a lot more people out there, of course, but I think you get into your own little niche while you're walking and you can still have that same experience. Yeah, the technology there's a lot more infrastructure. You know, when I think of the Camino Frances, there's, you know, there's an albergue every five kilometers almost, you know, depending. But I just think it's easier. It's a lot easier now for people to just let go and walk it. You don't have to worry so much.

Judy Colaneri: 25:52

You know, back then, you know you really had to carry a lot of water. I have oh, here's a funny story, you were talking about funny stories. Speaking of water, I actually carried a water filter pump with me and Juan Carlos was like what do you need this for? And so we stayed in this albergue that was under construction and I left it in the bathroom, kind of hanging over a door, to sort of dry out overnight, to kind of clean it, and that door locked automatically and I didn't have a key to get back in there to get this. It's like a Katadyn water filter, which was not cheap. It was an expensive one back then. There's cheaper systems now.

Judy Colaneri: 26:31

So I ran over to the bar, the only bar in the village that you know. It was a miracle that they opened at seven o'clock because back then the bars didn't open until nine, so you couldn't get a coffee until nine. And I just wrote out Cookie's address and said you know, if you happen to find this water filter, can you send it to my friend in the Pyrenees? And she got the email. They sent it to her. This bar that you know the guy's looking at me like you know. No, we're not going to do that. But they sent it to Cookie in the Pyrenees and her family was in.

Judy Colaneri: 27:08

They were military. Cahok is known for being a big military base, okay, and even though her dad had retired, you know, a long time ago, they get this funny object in the mail and they had to bring it in to have it like bomb detected because they thought maybe it was, you know, had something, because he was like like a high-up official in the military. So they had to go and get this. I mean, that's not a really funny story, but it was just kind of a bizarre story about. You know, we didn't have technology, I couldn't communicate with these people. I just scribbled out on a napkin her address and then it was like suddenly a bomb alert, you know know. So it's kind of an odd story, not maybe not really a funny story, but yeah well coming a miracle that you would get that return exactly, exactly.

Leigh Brennan: 27:58

Yeah, the chances of that are pretty incredible, yeah yeah so when you look back now and you think, I mean, obviously this changed your life tremendously, yeah, what do you think has been the most profound impacts on you as a person? Because obviously you ended up changing you kind of live in both places, you fell in love. But when you look at yourself as a person, what's been most profound for you? I think it's.

Judy Colaneri: 28:28

I feel a lot of gratitude for the people that have helped me on this journey. You know, I couldn't have done what I've done without the aid of some really special people that are part of my team, and there's no way, there's no way I have all these really great, very, very special people that have been with me for a long time on this journey, and I really owe it to them. You know, it's them, not me, it's them, you know. So it's the gratitude that I have towards my team, my personal Camino family, you know, and my husband, of course. He's been at my side all this time too. So that's probably the most profound thing is I just feel really just kind of embraced by a good team of people. So that's what I can take away from it.

Leigh Brennan: 29:24

Now you split your time right now, so let everybody know a little bit about your hotel. It looks so beautiful.

Judy Colaneri: 29:37

I wish I had heard about it when I went to Santiago and visited Asturias. Well, my time is split between Aspen, colorado, where I'm at right now, and Asturias. And Juan Carlos and I had looked on the Camino for a long time because we thought of opening up a retreat center on the Camino. But then, as we got into it more, I decided I didn't want, you know, we wanted to open a hotel slash, you know, b&b slash retreat center. We didn't want the business of people coming and leaving, you know, coming just for one night and leaving. We just saw that as a big laundry debacle, you know, got to do the laundry, got to do the laundry. So we started looking outside of the Camino and we were looking on the Camino del Norte because I thought, oh my gosh, you know, you have the beautiful Astorian mountains and then you have the beaches of Asturias, of Asturias. But then I went a little bit inland from the sea, about an hour's drive from the ocean, to this national park that we're in called the Ubinas de la Mesa, which is kind of, if you're walking the Camino San Salvador, and you go through Pola de Lena, that's the closest Camino town to our hotel, and we decided just to base ourselves. We bought an old farmhouse. You know we converted an old farmhouse, not recommended as far as the job goes. It was really really difficult. Yes, you know, we have three. It was an old stone farmhouse that we bought and then we built two other buildings on the property. So it was really very difficult. But Juan Carlos kept saying you know, just think of Santiago, he'll get us there, he'll get us there. You know there's obstacles along the way, but he's going to get us there. And then we just kind of settled in there. So it's our home in Spain and we also offer retreats and workshops and we don't do very many, just one-night stands as far as people coming for the night. But you know, we will, depending on you know, if we have availability, but we just base ourselves there in this, just a gorgeous, gorgeous area.

Judy Colaneri: 31:42

And just down below us is a long-distance walking trail called the Senda del Oso, the Bear Trail, and that goes from pretty much our house all the way to Oviedo. So, and then there's also another long distance walking trail that goes right by our house as well, called the Camino Real de las Reliquias. So it's the relics trail. So evidently it's the GR 207. I guess they would take relics from Toledo to Astorga and then up through the mountains, kind of north of Astorga just due. North of Astorga there's an old Roman road that kind of climbs up and up and then drops down into our valley and then continues on into Oviedo. So I've done most of that trail and it's beautiful. There's no albergues or anything along that, but it is an old—it's not a pilgrimage road, but it was a protected road because they moved relics. So just out our kitchen window, our dining room window rather, is like a watchtower that was probably from the 8th or 9th century. So that's right there as one of the leftovers of that.

Leigh Brennan: 32:52

I wonder how many times you get the question of oh, you don't live in southern Spain, where it's sunny, why did you pick northern Spain?

Judy Colaneri: 32:59

Because of the mountains, because of the mountains. Juan Carlos is from Valladolid, which is like three hours north of Madrid. It's really flat, kind of Meseta-like, and I just was. You know, I was just yearning for the mountains, I'm a mountain girl and we started looking around. We started looking in Cantabria, galicia, and then finally I found a house in Asturias that was reasonably priced, but it was a run-down farmhouse, stone farmhouse. So you know, it took some blood, sweat and tears to bring it up to a livable condition. So yeah.

Leigh Brennan: 33:37

So let's talk about that. As pilgrims, we both know uh, maybe ourselves or someone we've walked with. How many times do you pass a place that you know is for sale and all of a sudden, the dream starts coming up like well, I could own an albergue, or I? You know, so let's talk a little bit about that to the folks that maybe are considering that the you know, what do you wish you had known before you bought that?

Judy Colaneri: 34:03

Well, I feel like I was at a real advantage because Juan Carlos is Spanish and what I see with people trying to make a major investment like this is it's a dream and it's kind of I hate to say it like this, but it's kind of an unrealistic dream, because most of the people that have this dream do not speak Spanish. They don't have like a rooted somebody that can really help them go through the stages of what it takes with the bureaucratic part of it all. That is not easy and Juan Carlos was there and he had all you know, he had experience. He knew the right people to talk to as far as government, you know where to go and get paperwork done and things like that people to talk to. As far as government, you know where to go and get paperwork done and things like that. So I really feel like you know, if it's just like a little dream of yours and you don't speak Spanish, I think you really need to speak Spanish fluently in order to do something like this.

Judy Colaneri: 35:00

I see people around us that are not opening albergues, but they just have settled there and bought an old stone farmhouse and they're trying to restore it and they struggle. They struggle because they don't speak Spanish. They had the money to buy it. That's the easy part, I think, is coming up with the money to buy it, because some of those places are pretty cheap. I think nowadays, if it's right on the Camino, the prices are more inflated than it was back then. But there are still places in Spain where you can find very economical buildings to convert into some kind of a business or your own home. But I think you know, I think not speaking the language is a big no for starters.

Leigh Brennan: 35:43

You know, I think one thing that I felt when I walked my first Camino is I gained a sense of false confidence. Yeah, it seemed like I could get by without Spanish Right Now, reflecting back, I realized, well, that's because I was on the most popular route, right, and everybody kind of knew what I was going to do. You know, I was going to order a coffee. I was going to, you know like, find the bathroom Right, and I was like, how hard could it be? I did that. Yeah, turns out it's a little more challenging. So let's talk about language can be a challenge. What other challenges have you faced?

Judy Colaneri: 36:20

and being an American but living in Spain, you know again, because I have the support of my husband, it's been pretty easy because he's taken care of a lot of that aspect of owning a business, buying a building and everything like that. But I think you know, just as a person, I think the hardest part is becoming part of the community and it's taken me a long time to become part of my local community.

Leigh Brennan: 36:50

And you speak fluent Spanish.

Judy Colaneri: 36:52

Yeah, my Spanish is okay after all these years, but it's just, you know, it's just it was. Yeah, there's the expat community but then the local community and my husband's in the local community. So that's my ticket to being part of that. But I think if he wasn't around I probably wouldn't really have that much of a social life with the locals. I do have a very strong social life with the locals but prior to that and us moving to a new place, you know it was a little bit lonely. So I think people moving to you know, unless you're moving to downtown Benny Dorm, which is a lot of foreigners, then you know you might struggle a little bit with incorporating into the social life that, but like what's the reality of that look like?

Leigh Brennan: 37:47

Because I've told that to some folks. Like you're ready to spend a lot of time on your own. Why is that?

Judy Colaneri: 38:00

And what's it feel like as the person who's experiencing that? Well, I think the Spaniards have a really tight family commitment, so they're really family bound, more than I think us here in America. You know, in America everyone picks up and leaves their family at an early age. I did, I did, I moved from New York to Colorado at a very young age and just kind of, I think there's just stronger family values there, I think, and they stick together and they don't go far, they stick together. So, and that was your experience in Santiago, huh, which is such a cosmopolitan well, I can't say it's a huge cosmopolitan city but there's certainly a lot of expats that live there, you know, I wouldn't say as many as like Benidorm or something like that Right right, right.

Leigh Brennan: 38:48

So it's a small community of English-speaking expats that are there. But the folks that grew up in Santiago they're quite tight, you know, they've lived full lives and for them it's a small town. Yeah, yeah, when I walk around with one of my friends who grew up there and owns a cafe there now, he literally knows everyone. We're past that lives there Now.

Leigh Brennan: 39:10

Santiago is a little strange in that it's the destination city, not just for the Camino but also, you know, a lot of Spanish folks just want to go there to see the cathedral. It's become also the home of business conferences and different things, so there's always tourists in Santiago. So you know they wouldn't know them. But you know, as far as the local community, it's very small and, like you're saying, my experience was, you know they already had all their friends growing up. They went to University together as well and the families are so tight that they already have their Sunday family meals together. They don't really need extra expats. You know they're, they're friendly to us and certainly you do eventually become friends with some people. But I think it's a little. It's hard to break into that. Yeah, if your Spanish isn't very strong, even impossible at that point. Right, yeah, yeah, have so much to offer or even understand at a meal. So, yeah, even had it there.

Leigh Brennan: 40:08

I lived in Robinaw for a short period of time, which was a very small village, you know. I think there was one person at the time who spoke a little bit of Spanish or a little bit of English, and so you know that was extremely difficult, at least in Santiago. You know I had a lot of English speakers coming to visit Right and, and you know, like all the world, I think there is more and more English being spoken in larger cities, but that is not the case. If you buy a little farmhouse out in the middle of nowhere on the Camino, that village is going to be very Spanish-oriented. Right Like people can't speak English at all.

Judy Colaneri: 40:43

Yeah, no, you'll have a wave. You know the wave of foreigners walking through that you can talk to. But as far as incorporating, you know, just being a part of that village, it would be difficult, I think. So I think that's something really to take into account. If you're a foreigner buying in a Spanish village, you know the Camino, you'll have definitely a lot more activity, but you know.

Leigh Brennan: 41:05

But they come and go.

Judy Colaneri: 41:07

But they come and go. Yeah, they come and go. Yeah, oftentimes. You know it might sound a little derogatory, but on the Camino, the people that I've known all these years, I kind of call them my friends for five minutes because I come in and we sit and we chat and we catch up and you know how's the granddaughter, and you know I've watched these families from death to birth, you know, with the grandfather who served me a coffee back in 1994 is no longer here, but yet there's lots of grandchildren running around, you know. So, you know I've kind of seen these families. You know transition, you know. So for me it's great and they, they appreciate me coming in, because I also think they I'm a familiar face to them, you know, because they see all these strangers and suddenly I come in and it's like, oh, it's you, la Americana.

Judy Colaneri: 41:57

You know, yeah, no, it is, it's really nice to have that and have connections. For me on the Camino anyway, it's nice to have those connections because then they can if I need some help, you know, if the van breaks down or somebody really gets lost or they need to go see a doctor or something, I have connections and that's really nice too. So that's a big help for me, yeah.

Leigh Brennan: 42:20

So if somebody's listening to this and they're contemplating moving, would you suggest a split of time like you've done? Would you suggest to split or to just go for it?

Judy Colaneri: 42:30

Oh yeah, I don't think you want to try it out. What I suggest is you go over, you rent a place. If there's a village that really resonates with you, try to rent first, you know, and then really be looking around for what you want to do. Rent, maybe, buy something, you know you can still find things that are really affordable. Slowly fix it up but try to become part of that village and if you don't, then you can sell it and move back home. But I wouldn't sell my home. You know, maybe if you don't have a home and you know you're just out of college or whatever, you want to do something like this, then sure, give it a try. But I think that's the hardest part is maybe the not really becoming 100% involved with the village. I mean, there are people that have for sure, absolutely for sure.

Leigh Brennan: 43:17

But that's probably fewer than the people that actually end up staying long term and making that dream turn into a reality, right. And so your advice and what I'm hearing is dream, turn into a reality, right. And so your advice and what I'm hearing is yeah, go and try it. Rent Definitely, get out the place, but keep a place back in the US because you end up wanting to return. Right, don't keep that place and you're starting over again in the US.

Judy Colaneri: 43:41

Exactly exactly. And you know, I know of people that have moved over and then thought that was it and then ended up moving back. So I think you know, don't give it all up just with this pipe dream that you might have. So I think you know, study it, study it a little bit, you know, and that would be renting and checking out different areas. If that first place doesn't resonate with you, then just move on and go someplace else. You know, because I think the quality of life there is fabulous In Spain, it really is, I think you know. It's so much the food, the wine, it's just so much more affordable. Public transportation is fabulous. You know, again, you can buy something that's not that expensive, but you will have the paperwork and all the legal hoops to jump through. But it can do it. There's lawyers, bilingual lawyers, that can assist in helping you along the way. So there's ways to do it. There's ways to do it Again.

Judy Colaneri: 44:40

I was lucky because I had a Spaniard in my life that did most of the work for me. He did the red tape.

Leigh Brennan: 44:47

That sounds absolutely dreamy.

Leigh Brennan: 44:48

Let me tell you how different my experience would have been had I been married to somebody that was Spanish. The other thing, you know, I think for everyone to check out is their particular own tax situation, because that can impact you differently depending on how your finances are. So, yeah, I think you know sometimes we go with this dream, but there's a lot of research that needs to be done and that's not just taking the word of somebody you see on Facebook, like really getting information from experts, right and really people. I think the things you're talking about you know feeling isolated in a, in a village you know that's, that's a real thing and you got to really decide if you can do that, because that comes with the dream.

Judy Colaneri: 45:31

Well, and you know these villages, a lot of them just close up really early. So you know, if you're used to going out and you know lively dinners and things like that, you might not find it, you know. So, yeah, I think you really do have to rent something before you buy and settle in that certain place and learn the language.

Leigh Brennan: 45:53

Learn the language. Learn the language. Very sound advice. Okay, judy, so you walk your first Camino and there's this cute Spanish guy who suddenly enters your life. Tell us about the first time you laid eyes on Juan Carlos.

Judy Colaneri: 46:08

Your life Tell us about the first time you laid eyes on Juan Carlos. So I was checking back into the albergue in Puente Lorena because I'd taken a rest day there and went up to Pamplona to visit Pamplona and then came back that evening and there was like this whole new wave of pilgrims there the night before. It was a bunch of bicyclists from France. So the next day so I didn't really get to meet them at all. I was exhausted and it was bedtime so I just went to bed. But then the next day when I came back, I came back at an early enough hour and there were people milling about the Albergue and, you know, people from all over the world, and I just thought, okay, this is kind of nice. And they were all hikers, they were pilgrims on foot and it's getting kind of late. Oh, I know, this is the day that Jackie O died. I'll never forget that. This was when, oh, wow, yeah. So you know, I was reading the news. I was over at the bar next door reading the newspapers and just kind of catching up and reminiscing. And then I came back in and the pilgrims were still sitting around the general dining room table there at that albergue. When this guy pops his head out and looks straight at me and says, will you keep it down out there? We're trying to sleep in here, you know? Because it was just, you know, a thin door right off where the bunk beds were, and I was like, oh yeah, yeah, sure. And he's like, yeah, and lock the door. I thought, okay, you know. And I felt like, oh yeah, yeah, sure. And he's like, yeah, and lock the door. I was like, okay, you know, and I felt like it was totally being directed at me and really cute guy. But I just felt like, well, whatever. So that was my first impression of him. That was the first time, but I thought he was awfully cute.

Judy Colaneri: 47:45

So the next day, everybody left the albergue except me. I stayed in bed because there was just too much activity. Everybody was packing and I wasn't used to that. I was by myself. I'd been by myself for seven days from Hakka and I just thought, okay, just take your time and keep your same rhythm, there's no hurry. Puente to Estella is like 25 kilometers, you got this, no big deal. Puente to Estella is like 25 kilometers, you got this, no big deal. And so when I get to Estella and finally find the albergue, all the pilgrims were waiting for me to go to dinner. So I just kind of threw my backpack down on the bed and said come on, let's go. And then, oh wait, let's backtrack just a little bit.

Judy Colaneri: 48:26

While I was walking up that steep hill to get to the albergue, there was a guy pushing somebody in a wheelchair up that hill. And I thought to myself, oh, that guy's really cute, you know. And so I was like don't you saw albergue? And he said just a minute, just one minute, please. So we get to the top of the hill and then he says goodbye to the guy in the wheelchair and this man says I'll walk you over there.

Judy Colaneri: 48:56

Well, it was Juan Carlos, the guy that had kind of told me to quiet down the night before. So he walked me to the albergue and then everybody was like where have you been? We're going to dinner. So that's kind of how it all started. Me and the whole gang there was like 10 of us went out for dinner and Juan Carlos was telling everybody what was on the menu and I was having to translate for those that didn't speak Spanish. So that's kind of how we sort of hit it off. You know, as far as just starting a conversation and starting a friendship. And then we walked the whole thing together. We walked from Puente larena to santiago together and and uh, that was that was it. That was history, you know really from that from that moment.

Judy Colaneri: 49:39

yeah, we were pretty tight pilgrims the whole way and then, and then he came over to the us a few months later and I came back to spain again in the spring and you know it's just been. I've been like this ping pong ball going from one country to another, you know. But he's been in my life ever since, so that's been Ever since.

Leigh Brennan: 49:57

When you left Santiago that first time, did you think well, all that was a Camino love, or you?

Judy Colaneri: 50:02

know to see him in.

Leigh Brennan: 50:03

Spain, yeah, of course. And then he comes to the US, yeah right.

Judy Colaneri: 50:07

So we kept in touch and this was, you know, letters and telephone calls, you know, so Romantic, yeah, yeah. And then fax machines started coming in, so I was able to send a few faxes every now and then, but this is all before our cell phones Love it.

Judy Colaneri: 50:23

I mean, we were able to talk on the phone, but you know, back then you didn't really. You know it's like oh, an international call? Right, it was expensive to have an international call, that's just it. And international calls are super expensive. And you know, this is before internet and WhatsApp and all that, so, so it was really. I still have a lot of those letters that we would write to each other. You know, he was such a good letter writer, it was really nice to get those letters. And then, yeah, and then eventually, you know, spending so much time together and starting this business, it was like I thought to myself you know, we have to have our own little hotel, let's open up a little boutique hotel. So we did that, you know, and that's what we've been doing ever since. So, plus the tours, so we do both 30 years together.

Leigh Brennan: 51:10

That's quite an achievement, kind of a miracle.

Judy Colaneri: 51:13

It's, a miracle of the Camino, it is a miracle of the Camino.

Leigh Brennan: 51:18

Has anyone else fallen in love and gotten married that you guys have walked with?

Judy Colaneri: 51:22

Well, a number of my guides, a number of the people that work for me, they met their partners on the Camino as well, really. So, yeah, like Virginio, who is my, he leads all my tours in Italy now he worked for me here. He met his German bride on the Camino. She stopped in to fill her water bottle and never left, you know, and that was in Arroyo San Bol, just before Ontanas and Raquel met her partner on the Camino. They met up somewhere in the Meseta and then didn't see each other again until Santiago. They were both walking south. She's from Porto and he's from the US, so they were both. He was going to go to Lisbon and she was just going to walk home to Porto. And they met up and they're still together.

Leigh Brennan: 52:15

How many years has that been?

Judy Colaneri: 52:17

I think those guys have been together probably about eight years, and Virginia and Donna have been together probably about 15 years. Wow, yeah, yeah.

Judy Colaneri: 52:30

So it's possible to fall in love on the Camino, you know yeah, right, there's, there's people out there that that meet their partners on the Camino. For sure I think it's because you just kind of let your hair down, you're in a safe space, you just you're open, you're open. The Camino really opens you up and opens your heart up, so I think it really is a good place to you know, I mean, don't go looking for it, but if it happens to come by, then of course embrace it, you know.

Leigh Brennan: 53:00

I love it, I embrace it Lovely. So what's next? What's next for Judy, the pilgrim of 30 years?

Judy Colaneri: 53:08

Yeah, well, I'm starting to step back a little bit because I have such a great team Starting to step back, trying to transfer over a lot of the responsibility, just because I'm kind of at the point in my life where all I want to do is put a backpack on and go hiking and I feel like you know, all these years, even though I've been able to do quite a bit of that, I just want to go on a long, long walk and not have to be in front of a computer ever again.

Leigh Brennan: 53:34

No, just kidding, just kidding about that. I will include links to the hotel as well as steps, so people can see what kind of tours you're doing coming up. But the hotel, oh my goodness. I've combed through your entire website and everything looks gorgeous. I cannot wait to come and visit you the next time?

Judy Colaneri: 53:54

Well, anytime, Anytime. We've got eight rooms, so you know we'll put your name on one of them. Lovely, Lovely.

Leigh Brennan: 54:00

Well, thank you for sharing your story. It's warmed my heart.

Judy Colaneri: 54:03

Good, good.

Leigh Brennan: 54:04

And when's your next Camino? October? Oh great, Judy. I'm just so thrilled to have you on the show today. I appreciate it. It's been great being here. Well, thank you and congratulations on your body of work and being a part of the Camino, and just so happy for you.

Judy Colaneri: 54:18

Thank you, thank you, and you too, what a great podcast you have Well pilgrims.

Leigh Brennan: 54:23

that's a wrap. I hope you enjoyed today's show. We'll be back soon with another episode. Until then, may the light and your pilgrim heart keep burning strong Ciao.