#158 From Corporate to Calling: The Voice That Broke Free

Today, I interview Holly MacCue, who used to walk into work feeling sick with dread, afraid she would be exposed as a fraud. Even after being recognized by her boss as a “shining star,” she couldn’t shake the fear that she didn’t belong. A high achiever since childhood, Holly placed enormous pressure on herself to succeed—and it eventually made her physically ill. She lost her voice to laryngitis, and with it came a wake-up call: something had to change.

As a sensitive, creative child, Holly had always expressed herself through writing, but she was never the loudest in the room. She was thoughtful, disciplined, and driven. Though her parents never pushed her, she pushed herself hard. That drive followed her into adulthood, until one day, sitting at dinner with friends, she thought, “I guess I’ll just be happy when I retire.” That moment cracked something open.

She began redefining what success meant to her. She left corporate life, started her own business, and gradually built a life aligned with her values. The turning point deepened when her newborn daughter struggled with undiagnosed health issues. Despite being dismissed by professionals, Holly trusted her instincts and fought to be heard. That experience became a powerful lesson in using her voice for what matters.

Today, Holly helps entrepreneurs do the same. Through her Magnetic Selling Method, she shows them how to speak clearly, connect deeply, and stop hiding. Her message is simple: your voice already exists—what matters is choosing how to use it.

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Holly MacCue is a Sales and Messaging Strategist for service-based entrepreneurs, running a multi–six-figure business while raising two young children. She is a Professional Certified Coach with the International Coaching Federation and brings over a decade of experience as a brand strategist for global companies like Unilever and Procter & Gamble, where she led strategy for a $200 million portfolio.

Through her signature Magnetic Selling Method™, Holly has helped over 1,000 clients across 70+ industries master their messaging, stand out as the no-brainer choice, and attract pre-sold, ready-to-invest clients. Her approach is grounded in buyer psychology and has empowered clients to double their prices, quadruple their income, sell out their first launches, and scale to multiple six figures in as little as 12 months.

A sought-after speaker on magnetic sales and messaging, Holly has been featured in Entrepreneur, Forbes, Huffington Post, and Entrepreneurs on Fire. Her work is about helping people show up with clarity, confidence, and service—and making it easy for the right clients to find them.

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Find Holly here:
https://www.instagram.com/hollymaccue/

https://www.facebook.com/holly.maccue.3/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/empoweredentrepreneursconnect

https://hollymaccue.com/highticketsales/

Transcript

Transcript of Interview

Find Your Voice, Change Your Life Podcast

Podcast Host: Dr. Doreen Downing

Free Guide to Fearless Speaking: Doreen7steps.com

Episode # 158 Holly MacCue

“From Corporate to Calling: The Voice That Broke Free”

(00:00) Doreen Downing: Hi, this is Dr. Doreen Downing, and I'm host of the Find Your Voice, Change Your Life podcast. What I get to do here is interview people who, at some point—maybe even several points—in their lives, felt like they didn’t have a voice. And the challenge was to find this voice that was suddenly required because they didn’t have it before.

Today, I am really excited to introduce you to somebody I’ve been following on social media. Her name is Holly MacCue. Is that how you say your last name?

Holly MacCue: MacCue. Yes.

Doreen Downing: Well, I have a bio, and Holly, I’d first like to read it just so people can see what a difference there is between the stories you might tell about earlier in your life and what you now get to do by being more fully expressed.

Holly MacCue: Yes, sure.

Doreen Downing: Holly is a sales and messaging strategist for service-based entrepreneurs, running a multi–six-figure business one-handed—around a three- and a five-year-old. A professional certified coach with the International Coaching Federation, she has a decade of experience working as a brand strategist for global consumer brands. 

Today, she has helped over a thousand clients across 70 different industries to nail their positioning and master their messaging so they can be seen as the—I'm going to put this in quotes for those of you watching, because it's so powerful—"no-brainer choice," and attract pre-sold, ready-to-buy ideal clients using her Magnetic Selling Method.

These powerful principles she uses are based in psychology. That’s something that draws me as a psychologist—she brings buyer psychology into her work. It underpins her framework, and clients have been able to double their prices, quadruple their monthly targets, grow to multiple six figures from scratch in just 12 months, and sell out their first launches.

Holly, of course, is a sought-after speaker on the topic of magnetic sales and messaging. She’s been featured in Entrepreneur, Forbes, Huffington Post, and Entrepreneurs on Fire.

Oh, I’ve got to take a deep breath. No wonder I’m attracted to you! I can’t wait to have you support me in whatever is going to happen in terms of increasing my online presence. I love this idea of magnetic selling because I think the work I do is about being more magnetic as a person—as someone living her passion. So, hello, hello, Holly.

(03:20) Holly MacCue: Hello! Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited for this.

(03:23) Doreen Downing: Yes. How was it to hear all of what you’ve accomplished and are doing so far?

(03:30) Holly MacCue: It’s been a journey. I think everyone’s path is a journey, and I’m still very much on that journey. I’ve evolved immensely, even just since the start of my business. I’ve been an online entrepreneur now for nine years. I didn’t just show up one day and boom—all of this happened. This has been very intentional, very by design, with plenty of trial and error. 

I very much like to approach things as one big playful experiment in that sense. And yes, it's wonderful to hear it back, actually. But just for everyone to know, it’s not where I started.

(04:12) Doreen Downing: Right. That’s the whole point of our podcast, folks—those of you who are listening to our guest today. She didn’t just pop out and start her business. She popped out into some kind of environment. I’m going to ask Holly if she could venture back to some of those early years. 

You’re probably, from what I’ve read already, someone who is more of a sensitive soul like I am. That’s why I’m drawn to the work that you do—because you understand us. We aren’t loud, out there trying to beat the floor or the drums or whatever people beat to get their voices out there.

Any early life stories? How you came into the world, what your family was like? Maybe—were you the older or younger sibling? Just anything that comes.

(05:08) Holly MacCue: I describe myself as highly sensitive, very empathic, and a natural introvert. Even right now, there’s so much going on in the world, and it weighs on me heavily. I feel very emotionally connected to other people—people I may never have crossed paths with, who I may not have anything in common with.

I guess it is related to that whole finding your voice piece, but any kind of injustice, any oppression—those things really bother me. I feel them in my heart and my body and my soul.

Growing up, I was the firstborn child. I'm one of two girls. When I read what people say about the firstborn versus the middle child versus the youngest, I absolutely am a firstborn. I think we carry a lot on our shoulders as the first to forge the path, even if we didn’t necessarily want to be the first. We help pave the way for our younger siblings to follow a bit more easily, let’s say.

I was a shy child, always deeply thinking about things. I had a wild imagination. I was always creating, writing stories from a very young age, and I got my first poem published at 10 years old. So, this idea of finding ways to express myself in a creative sense has been there from the very beginning, even though I was never the loudest in the room. Never the one performing for a crowd, never the one dancing on tables or anything like that. I would definitely describe myself as a sensitive person.

(07:09) Doreen Downing: I love getting to know you this way and also seeing some of the mirroring back to me in my early life. I did some poetry too and was recognized by teachers. I would say that school was probably a place where I felt seen and heard more. I think teachers are there to find who we are and help us—for the most part. Sometimes the classroom is not the best or easiest place for people.

It sounds like early life, you... I’m not sure if your family—I mean, you were sensitive, so maybe your family just said, yes, that’s who you are, and they supported you in that way. Or did you feel kind of pushed to be different?

(08:00) Holly MacCue: No, my parents never pushed me. They always fully supported me. I'm so blessed in that regard. I had a very nurtured upbringing. I never felt any pressure from my parents. They didn’t need to pressure me—I put all the pressure on myself.

I was a high achiever, a perfectionist. I hated getting things wrong. It’s funny because I actually see some of these parallels in my eldest daughter now. She likes to be very methodical and do things right.

Ultimately, amongst all of that, it did sometimes become quite stressful. I used to really push myself at school. I wanted to achieve and accomplish. I was very driven and very disciplined. No one really needed to remind me to make sure I’d done my homework or to study for that exam. Even at university, I was writing essays at 7:00 AM. It was just the get-up-and-go.

But that wasn’t always a positive thing. One of the biggest lessons I’ve had to learn—and certainly through the rollercoaster that is entrepreneurship, which, let’s face it, is one of the biggest personal development experiences you can possibly have—is to go with the flow. Accept where you are, trust the process, and stop constantly trying to control everything and force-fit or be further ahead. Those have been some of the biggest life lessons for me, for sure.

(09:34) Doreen Downing: Oh my. Yes, I can hear that. Your drive to succeed is one thing, and I also felt like I stayed in school all the way to a PhD and even beyond because it was nice and safe there. I knew the ropes. I just had to do it right and get the applause from the teachers, I guess. The A’s—like the big A—is applause, right?

I loved what you just did about putting it next to being an entrepreneur. From the very beginning, I was never going to work for anybody. I wasn’t even going to do an internship where I had to as a psychologist. I made up my own internship. I found somebody I wanted to work with, and I said, you know, I’ll make it all happen. I can help you. That’s a whole other story.

But this idea you just said—entrepreneurship is a whole...I mean, we can’t come in and grab it and get from day one to, I don’t know, even 10, 20, 30 years down the line and know, because it’s all unfolding or something. Right?

(10:56) Holly MacCue: Definitely. It sounds like we had very different paths in that regard because I never intended to become an entrepreneur, actually. It ended up becoming the only way I could do what I wanted to do.

(11:12) Doreen Downing: Alright, there we go. Find your voice, it sounds like. Yes. So what were the years of you moving yourself out into the world then?

(11:23) Holly MacCue: Yes. Like you, I love learning. I’m absolutely a lifelong learner. I did a four-year degree in English and French. I did a master’s in business after that. Actually, it was during my master’s—and I was one of the youngest in the year because a lot of people had already done a master’s before coming onto this one—it was a very multicultural group, an incredible experience. It was partly in London, partly in Paris.

One of the defining moments I remember, which I think contributed to a lot of the imposter syndrome I experienced in my corporate years, was when some results came out—an exam, maybe marketing—and I was ranked fourth out of the 80 students. I remember a girl coming up to me, someone I knew and was friends with, and she said, “Oh my God, I saw the results and I was like—Holly’s smart!”

She was mind-blown that I was one of the smart ones in the group. Maybe it was because I looked younger than I was, or because I wasn’t showy. I wasn’t the one talking about my achievements overtly—I was the quiet one in the group. But I’ve never forgotten her surprise. That moment has stayed with me for years.

In my corporate years, I joined big Fortune 500 companies as a marketing and brand strategist. There were multiple times in my early working years when I was so afraid to get something wrong. I wouldn’t speak up because I didn’t want to say the wrong thing. I was afraid of failure. If I was given a project I hadn’t done before, and didn’t know exactly how to go about it—it was pure terror. How am I going to succeed?

That fear contributed to an enormous amount of stress. I would walk through the revolving doors of my office and feel sick to start the day. I felt like I had to perform and prove that I had a right to be there.

Now that I reflect on it, I think this is the first time I’ve even made the link—that right to be there. Like I had to earn my place. Someone, somewhere was going to find out that I was actually a fraud who didn’t know what she was doing. It all came from that perception of, “Am I really good enough to be here?” The surprise others had about my success fed into that. It weighed on me a lot.

There was a moment when my boss called me into a private meeting room to talk through some things. I thought, “Oh my God, here it is. They’re going to say, ‘By the way, you don’t really know what you’re doing here, and we’ve figured that out.’” But instead, it blindsided me—it was the complete opposite. She wanted to put me on a recognition program. She had highlighted me to the head of the UK and Ireland group as one of the “shining stars,” to use her words.

But it was so far removed from my own perception of myself at the time. It was a wild disconnect. That led to a lot of soul searching. Why was there such a disconnect? Why would other people have such a vastly different perception than I had of myself?

That’s just to give you a bit of context for how some of these things played out.

(15:30) Doreen Downing: Yes. I think what you just revealed personally to the folks who are listening right now is something that reaches deeply. I really, really appreciate you going to that more personal kind of conflict that you carried with you. You didn’t even know it was a conflict until—whoops—you know, I guess one day...

Well, I guess it's not just one day when we start to do self-discovery. It seems like you’re a learner and somebody who likes self-awareness anyway. But it does feel like you started to wake up to this incongruent sense between how you truly are and how you're affecting others. People were saying, “I see you.” Wow. Although you didn’t know they were seeing you—and getting inspired and impressed.

(16:33) Holly MacCue: I think wake up is a brilliant way to describe that period of time in my life. There reached a point where I made myself physically ill from the stress and pressure I was putting on myself. I mean, it was a fast-paced, demanding environment. Everything had to be done yesterday. We’re talking about the fast-moving consumer goods industry. Everything was deadline, deadline, deadline. There was a lot of external pressure.

But coupled with the expectations I was placing on myself—which were often unfair, actually, in retrospect—things came to a head. I ended up with laryngitis, and I lost my voice completely.

(17:25) Doreen Downing: Oh.

(17:26) Holly MacCue: And I just realized the significance of this, because I wasn’t even expecting to tell this particular story today. I remember calling for a doctor’s appointment, and I could barely make the appointment because I was literally a whisper on the phone. That’s how sick I’d become.

And I know, hands down, this was... it was what I think would be called generalized anxiety disorder—most likely. It was never diagnosed as that because I never sought any professional help. I never thought it was even a possibility that you could get help with how you were feeling about work.

That really prompted me to make some significant changes. This is what I now refer to as my quarter-life crisis. It made me start considering: what is my actual version of success? Not what other people think success is. Not what society says. Not what my friends in my master’s program thought. Because at the time, when I said I wanted to go into marketing, I literally got laughed at—like, “Why?” They were going into investment banking. Why would you go into anything except investment banking and make a ton of money?

This made me ground myself in—what’s actually important to me? What are my values? Is this the path I actually want?

When I thought ahead, I realized it wasn’t. I had this defining moment during dinner with friends one evening, and this thought dropped into my head: I guess I’ll just be happy when I’m retired. I was 25 at the time or something. That’s a really long time away. Oh my gosh.

That’s what prompted some actual personal development. I did meditation. I did NLP. I became a certified coach. And it revealed to me that there’s not one way to achieve success. I’d always gone down the academic route—hit the milestones, reach the director title, be in a big corporation.

But obviously, we both know there are so many different routes to success. And all that matters is our version of what that even means.

(19:34) Doreen Downing: Holly, already you've been giving such golden nuggets of your wisdom. If people are listening, I hope they're taking notes. Not if they were—those of you who are listening, take notes. You just got a huge one right there: there's no one way to determine success. When it comes to success, how do you define that? I love it.

I'm going to take a brief break and be right back, because I know there's more. After 25 years old and all that personal development, that must have led to something next for you. So, we'll be right back.

Hi, we’re back on the Find Your Voice, Change Your Life podcast. I’m Dr. Doreen Downing, and I'm interviewing today a new friend, Holly—who’s a coach who helps people with businesses excel and succeed. We’ve just talked about success being all different kinds of flavors. It’s not just one path to success.

We’ve also uncovered some of the waking-up moments—like finding that she didn’t have a voice, literally laryngitis, that brought her to that moment of, “Oh, something needs to change.” So, you started to go through changes. What next?

(21:06) Holly MacCue: I married an Australian, and we were living in London at the time, but we decided to move over to Sydney—which was a massive change on every level for me. I left behind everything I knew.

This was shortly after I became a newly certified coach. I was so motivated and inspired. Everything was coaching, coaching, coaching—transform your life—because I’d done all this work on myself. It made such a difference, and I was psyched to start sharing this with others.

I thought, well, I'm not going to apply for marketing roles in Sydney. I’m going to apply for learning and development and HR-type roles and see where I can find an opportunity to coach others.

Of course, no one in Sydney gave two tosses about that, because my résumé said marketing. So, no—you can’t just slide into a learning and development role. And I was like, but I’ve got a qualification! I’m so passionate! I’ve done all this pro bono. For your diploma, you have to do hours and hours and hours of coaching, as you’re probably aware, and that didn’t count for much.

The long and short of it is, I managed to negotiate a part-time senior marketing role at a Fortune 500 in Sydney. That gave me one precious day per week to explore—how can I support others in the way I’m finally realizing I feel really called to?

(22:28) Doreen Downing: Mm-hmm. And that was in their corporation—that one day a week?  They let you take time off or something?

(22:36) Holly MacCue: Yes. Four days in my role, one day for me. Over time, that became a job share. As my business grew, I negotiated a job share where myself and another part-time person shared our senior role. I had two days a week on my business. Over time, I was building this up.

This was a huge shift in being able to really ask for what I wanted—and in a way that got a yes, and in a way that felt like a win-win on all sides. I was so supported by my corporate organization for this. I think a lot of people thought I had kids and that was the reason I was part-time, but I actually had my side hustle business.

As it grew, it got to the point where it was thriving and successful. Then I had my first daughter. I went on maternity leave, and I never returned to corporate. That was literally how I shifted into becoming an entrepreneur—and how I got to where I am today.

But it wasn’t necessarily the original goal. It wasn’t necessarily the original intention. It was really about tuning into what actually matters to me. What is the work I would love to do? And to not let other people’s expectations or definitions ultimately decide how I went about that.

(23:54) Doreen Downing: I like hearing a couple of times where you could have gotten trapped, but you weren’t. You didn’t get trapped.

(24:02) Holly MacCue: For sure.

(24:04) Doreen Downing: You didn’t even get trapped in England. You didn’t—I mean...

(24:09) Holly MacCue: Yes, yes, yes. I mean, look, when I arrived in Sydney, it would’ve been so much easier just to accept a full-time role. I was offered many—in great organizations. I chose the slightly—no, the very much more difficult—route of completely starting from scratch, with zero networks, having never run a business, having never even really charged for my services as a coach before that.

But I knew—and there was this moment of clarity—I knew if I didn’t carve out the time to just explore where this could take me, then I probably never would. Because I would’ve got trapped. I would’ve gotten trapped in the safety and the security of that corporate bubble.

It took me a long time to leave it. I literally left when it was like—I can’t have a baby and a side hustle and a nine-to-five.

(24:56) Holly MacCue: That was kind of the catalyst I needed to be like, hey—this is what we’re doing.

(25:01) Doreen Downing: Beautiful. I know that in conversation before we got on today, you mentioned—we were talking about finding your voice—and you talked about a story with your children. You just mentioned having children and making choices. Anything about having a voice, finding a voice—what does that mean around having children?

(25:23) Holly MacCue: Yes, and I might get a bit emotional with this one because it’s so deeply important to me. I think there are so many parallels I like to teach my clients with this, because working with service-based entrepreneurs—it’s all about helping others feel less alone in what they’re struggling with.

You have a solution in your area of expertise that you know could genuinely transform someone’s life. By not making it overt and explicit, by not letting the world know, by not telling people that this is what you do and this is how you help—because you may be afraid to show up, you may be afraid to hold space or take up room, or be seen to be promoting yourself, or whatever the limiting belief is there (which we’ve all worked through)—it is an act of disservice. Because there are people out there who desperately, desperately need your unique gifts.

(26:27) Holly MacCue: This is something I was already teaching, but it really came to a head with this personal experience, which has just cemented that even further. And that was with my youngest daughter, Olivia. She’s now four.

She was born with a number of different health challenges. This was during COVID, during lockdown. We had zero family support. For want of a better description, I just kept getting fobbed off by medical professionals.

I knew as a second-time mother that my baby wasn’t feeding properly. She certainly wasn’t sleeping well. I knew something was up. It was taking me an hour and a half to feed her, and then half an hour later she’d be crying and hungry again.

I had a community health nurse come over to our house. I was in the throes of sleep deprivation, with a newborn who was very unhappy and taking up to five hours to settle at night. And the nurse said, “After 40 minutes, just cut her off, wrap her up, and put her down for her sleep.”

I had a speech pathologist look in her mouth and tell me there were no ties—no tongue ties, nothing. “She’s fine.” I had the GP tell me, “If she’s putting on weight, we’re not concerned.”

All these experts, all these medical professionals, were basically telling me, “She’s alright. She’s fine.” But my mommy intuition was my baby is not happy. She’s not well. She’s struggling.

It ended up that she had the most severe ties you could have—in her cheek, tongue, and upper lip. The analogy I was given was that trying to feed with a mouth like that was like trying to run with elastic bands around your ankles. My poor baby physically couldn’t latch and feed properly. Her tummy was always full of air, not milk—which is why she was wildly uncomfortable and unhappy.

In addition to that, she had ENT issues and very severe reflux, and a number of other things that made her really struggle. She was so uncomfortable. I describe it as trying to put to bed a wriggly plank of wood—because she was just so uncomfortable.

We had to really push for the support we needed. We were living in a regional town at the time, where there just wasn’t the experience or knowledge, so it was put into the “too hard” basket. We literally saw a lactation consultant who said, “Well, you’ve got a hard one there. I wish you luck.” It was just dismiss, dismiss, dismiss.

We went and sought out the specialist help that we needed. We were lucky that we had the financial means to do that. But it came down to me not accepting what I was being told, even though it was from expert professionals. I recognized that when we feel so passionately and deeply for something—in this case, for my child—we will make a stand. We will advocate for what we know is right.

I think this was the real recognition of how important that is: that when you know there are people out there you can help—or when it’s your family member—then even when it feels uncomfortable, even when you have experts telling you otherwise, you will find your voice. Because it’s too important not to. If I wasn’t going to make a stand for her and speak up, who was going to?

It was a challenging, difficult time. As I said, it was COVID, it was lockdown. My parents live in the UK on the other side of the world. We had border closures in Australia. No one was allowed in or out. It was, quite frankly, the worst time of my life.

But she’s thriving now. And it was full of painful but powerful lessons. I share this to remind people of what you are doing things for—and, most importantly, who you are doing things for.

It’s not always going to be comfortable to speak up. It’s not always comfortable to be visible. But recognize that if you are feeling called to share it—it’s because someone else needs to hear it.

(30:45) Doreen Downing: Oh, that's—breathtaking, what you just said and how you just said it. It’s so inspiring.

This segues into the Magnetic Selling program that you do and what you offer. We’re coming to the end, so I want to make sure and point to that—so people can see all of what you delivered today. All the beautiful treasures that you’ve offered are coming not only from your true life experience—the woman that you are—but also from what you’ve learned and now what you teach others.

How do you want to introduce your program? Or what would you like to say before we have to get off?

(31:31) Holly MacCue: Thank you. Yes. I’d say that my philosophy of sales is wildly different from anything that could be perceived as the hard sell. This is all about really meeting people where they’re at and what they are already actively seeking.

The most important thing with how we show up online—as a business owner, as an entrepreneur—is to help our audience, our people, feel seen, heard, and understood. Because when you can create that in your messaging, in your marketing, and in your offers, there’s no sell. People think, “This is what I’ve been looking for,” and you’ve just made it really easy for them to know where they can get that guidance—that wisdom, that knowledge, that expertise, that support.

My view is: the easy, effortless sales we all desire come from when we make it easy for people to say yes to us. And that always starts by leading with what they want. Where are they right now? What’s going on for them?

That’s really the concept in a nutshell—and where the sales psychology, the buyer psychology, comes into it. Because when we understand the driving forces that influence someone’s buying decision, the whole process becomes so much easier and more enjoyable on both sides.

This is where it feels like a total win-win. You have something that can genuinely impact someone’s life, and they’re seeking a solution that only you can offer with your unique genius.

In the Magnetic Selling framework, I teach the buyer psychology behind how to attract those ready-to-invest people who are already seeking the answers to their challenge. There’s no convincing. There’s no persuading. There’s no pressure or hard sell or using any unethical tactics.

I see it as an act of service—to make it easy for the right people to find you and to get the help they’re already wanting. It’s really, in that sense, just an invitation, so we can move away from that hard-selling method. It’s about an invitation.

That’s the premise of what I teach. I have a group mentorship program where I teach this in detail to entrepreneurs from every niche and industry imaginable—all over the world. I also work one-on-one and have digital courses that support developing this skill set as well.

I’m all about having a relationship with selling that is ultimately about your people and how you’re feeling called to serve them.

 (34:10) Doreen Downing: Right. The word easy keeps coming up because you’re an easy person to be with too. I think that’s important. There’s a magnetism about those of us who are selling, offering, or in our passion—and that magnetizes people too, I think.

That’s what I feel today. The people who are listening, and especially those who are watching, will see how magnetic you are. We have a website where people will be able to find you. There will be show notes and links to everything you’ve just mentioned—your digital courses and your Magnetic Selling mentorship program.

So, last words, Holly—I’ll just open this space to see what rises for you to say about voice and having it. You gave us a lot today.

(35:13) Holly MacCue: Yes, you already have a voice. It’s deciding how you want to use that voice and what you want your impact to be.

Recognizing that it doesn’t have to be showy. It doesn’t have to be extroverted. It doesn’t have to be braggy. It’s literally about helping someone else, as I said before, feel less alone and feel understood.

There’s no greater gift than that. We are driven as human beings by that sense of belonging. So, you showing up and saying, “Hey, I get it. I understand. I know it’s really hard, and I’d love to help you,” can literally be that light at the end of a dark tunnel for someone.

Just know that there are people out there who need what you offer and are waiting for you to show up for them and make it easy for them to find you.

(36:16) Doreen Downing: There’s that word easy again. Thank you so much, Holly, for being here today and sharing your insights, your wisdom, your being, and your easy presence.

(36:29) Holly MacCue: Thank you so much, Doreen. It’s been a pleasure.