#166 Rooted in the Heart: From Shyness to Bold Expression

Today, I interview Eric Atwood, who spent decades trapped in self-doubt, believing he had nothing of value to say. Labeled as the “shy, scared, stupid kid” after a traumatic moment in school, he carried that identity into adulthood, silencing his voice, hiding from connection, and believing he wasn’t enough.

He grew up across seven countries, constantly moving because of his father’s humanitarian work. From the outside, his childhood might have looked rich in experience. But inside, Eric struggled with the pressure to be the “good boy,” the family pacifier. His mother’s conditional love and his father’s emotional distance left him feeling unseen and unloved. He learned to stay quiet, to please, and to blend in, even when it cost him his sense of self.

Then one day, in his early forties, in the middle of a personal development workshop, he stood up in front of 150 people and spoke from his heart for the first time. That moment cracked something open. He felt alive, seen, and heard. Now, Eric helps others do the same. He guides people to connect deeply, speak authentically, and lead with presence. What once silenced him has become the very gift he offers others.

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Eric Atwood is a speech and presentation coach, communication skills trainer, copywriter, author, certified Speaking Circles® facilitator, and founder/CEO of The Speaker’s Studio.

He has a passion for language and communication, both spoken and written, and is committed to helping people express themselves clearly, confidently, and authentically in all their interactions.

Currently residing in the San Francisco Bay Area, Eric has lived in seven countries and traveled to more than 50, bringing a deep understanding and appreciation of people and cultures to his work and his life.

He is also the author of New Thinking, New Being: Moving From “The Daily Grind” to a More Meaningful, Deeply Fulfilling Life.

__________________

Find Eric here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericallenatwood/
https://www.facebook.com/eric.atwood.71
"3 Keys to Releasing Fear & Gaining Confidence in Public Speaking” Free Download - https://speakingcircles.com/ 

Transcript

Transcript of Interview

Find Your Voice, Change Your Life Podcast

Podcast Host: Dr. Doreen Downing

Free Guide to Fearless Speaking: Doreen7steps.com

Episode #166 Eric Atwood

“Rooted in the Heart: From Shyness to Bold Expression”

(00:07) Doreen Downing: Hi, this is Dr. Doreen Downing. What a pleasure it is to be hosting the Find Your Voice, Change Your Life podcast, especially when I get to bring to you people that I know really well, that I've worked with, and that I deeply admire. And today, that is Eric Atwood. Hi, Eric.

(00:29) Eric Atwood: Hi, Doreen. Pleasure to be here today.

(00:31) Doreen Downing: Yes, well, because we've been on a path together, a journey together, this is going to be something I think the audience will get more insight into because both of us understand what this is all about: finding your voice, your authentic self, and being able to speak with full presence anytime, anywhere.

(00:59) Eric Atwood: Absolutely.

(01:00) Doreen Downing: That’s our promise today, folks. Let me read what Eric has given me to represent his bio.

Eric Atwood is a speech and presentation coach, communication skills trainer, copywriter, author, and certified Speaking Circles facilitator. He is the founder and CEO of The Speaker's Studio. He has a passion for language and communication, both spoken and written, and is committed to helping people express themselves clearly, confidently, and authentically in all their interactions.

Currently residing in the San Francisco Bay Area, Eric has lived in seven countries and traveled to more than 50, bringing a deep understanding and appreciation of people and cultures to his work and his life.

He's also the author of the book New Thinking, New Being: Moving From the Daily Grind to a More Meaningful, Deeply Fulfilling Life. I like reading that, and I'm so glad you're bringing your expertise to the group today.

Right now, just before we get going, I see that Eric’s note taker AI has entered. Maybe we just let it go.

(02:33) Eric Atwood: Yes, or you can decline it if you have that option.

(02:36) Doreen Downing: Okay, I did. We want it all for the audience, not for your note taker, right?

Eric, there’s so much I could start with just from what you provided in your bio. I’ve said that I like to start in early childhood, and that’s usually true. But 50 countries and having lived in seven? I can’t help but start right there because that is so fascinating.

I was in the Peace Corps, so I have a deep appreciation for other cultures and what it’s like to live in them. Why don’t you just name the seven countries? Let’s start with that.

(03:18) Eric Atwood: Sure. I was born in Malaysia. Then my family moved to India, then Honduras, then Colombia, then Afghanistan, then back to India. After that, I moved to the United States. I did not live in the States until I went to college.

About 15 years after living in the States, my wife and I moved to New Zealand. And now I'm back in the U.S.

The reason I lived overseas was because my dad was the country director of an organization called CARE, which provides relief—aid and supplies—to developing countries around the world. So, we moved from country to country. We always lived in the capital cities, and I always went to American schools with kids from literally all over the world.

It was a very interesting upbringing, and right from the start, it opened up my worldview. It was definitely an atypical American upbringing, if you will.

(04:16) Doreen Downing: Absolutely. I mentioned the Peace Corps earlier. I was in the Peace Corps in Malaysia, right where you were.

(04:23) Eric Atwood: Oh really? I was born in Kuala Lumpur.

(04:26) Doreen Downing: Yes, KL. What year were you born?

(04:29) Eric Atwood: 1966.

(04:30) Doreen Downing: 1966. Alright. Well, you might have been a baby crawling around when I was a Peace Corps volunteer there.

(04:38) Eric Atwood: Yes.

(04:39) Doreen Downing: Wonderful. I’m sure you probably didn’t have many memories. You probably didn’t live there that long.

(04:45) Eric Atwood: No, and I have never returned there. But my sister has. She was also born in Malaysia, and she works for the State Department. She’s been to 180-something countries, so she puts me to shame. But she’s returned to Malaysia a couple of times.

(04:58) Doreen Downing: Well, given that we’ve said it was atypical, we might as well go into—what was the family structure that made you feel like you didn’t have a voice? Or maybe it was positive, I don’t know. Give us some insights on what it was like being a little kid in that family.

(05:20) Eric Atwood: I was one of three children. I was the middle child, and I was my mom’s favorite. She called me the apple of her eye.

I was a different kind of child in her eyes compared to my brother and sister. My brother was older, and my sister was younger. I felt like the special child, and I had to be the good boy. I wasn’t supposed to speak up or speak out against anybody. I was sort of the family pacifier, if you will. I didn’t feel like I had much of a voice as a child.

There were a couple of times—I don’t want to get into too much mother stuff here—but there were a few moments where I disappointed my mom, and she really let me have it. Not physically, but emotionally. She made me feel bad. And I thought, “Oh, I can’t disappoint my mom anymore.” So I got even more quiet. I became more of a doting child.

That didn’t just stay in my childhood. It carried into my early adulthood. For many years, I felt like I was still that pacifier kind of person. I couldn’t really speak up. I didn’t feel like I had much of a voice.

Beyond that, I didn’t really like myself much. I didn’t feel like I had a lot to offer. There were a couple of instances in my childhood where I felt judged, like people didn’t like me. That made me withdraw from others.

So, between those experiences and the family dynamics, I felt like I didn’t have much of a voice. I didn’t have much to offer. I was constrained and didn’t speak up at all, whether in my family, with friends, or at school. That was kind of my experience as a child.

(07:12) Doreen Downing: Well, it's interesting. I hear a lot about children of military families who have to go to new environments and new schools. There’s the positive side, where they adapt quickly. But the other side is that it’s always a struggle to be seen and heard because it’s a whole new environment—new customs, new norms, new social situations—and you have to find your way in.

I was just wondering, even though it wasn’t military, because you moved so often, was there something like that also going on for you?

(07:57) Eric Atwood: Yes, I think that definitely had something to do with it. Moving from country to country every two to three to four years, we’d go into a new school, make new friends, and of course, a new country meant a different culture, a different kind of experience, a different language—all of those things.

I did feel like I was never really settled anywhere. And I think maybe that made me a little more withdrawn or not quite able to express who I was because I really didn’t know who I was at that time. It wasn’t that I felt lost exactly. It was just more of a nomadic experience, moving from place to place and never really feeling like any place was home.

That might have affected how I showed up in the world and maybe how I didn’t. I haven’t thought too much about that particular factor in terms of why I didn’t speak. I think it had more to do with my shyness and self-consciousness. And again, a couple of things that happened to me when I was young made me feel like I didn’t have much to say and didn’t want to be judged by people. I think that was a big part of it too. I didn’t speak because I was afraid people wouldn’t like me.

(09:12) Doreen Downing: It sounds like there are two places I could go. You just mentioned something that always makes me curious. You sound like you have a memory about when something happened, where you kind of made a decision that people didn’t like you. Why don’t we go there? Were you referring back to a specific memory?

(09:37) Eric Atwood: Yes, there was one in particular. Throughout school, my early education, I didn’t really raise my hand in class. And if I was called on, it would be a very brief answer.

There was one time when I was about 10 or 11 years old. I remember it clearly. It was in sixth grade at the American International School of Kabul, Afghanistan. The school was holding an event, and my sixth-grade teacher decided I would be a good candidate for a particular activity.

He asked five of his students to stand up on stage in front of the entire school and tell a story. The theme or topic of the story was given to each student right before they got on stage.

(10:30) Eric Atwood: I was a very shy kid, and my teacher knew this. But he also knew me as a creative person, especially from the stories I wrote. I loved to write and loved language. Sometimes he would even read my stories aloud to the class.

He saw me as creative, but he also knew I was shy. When he picked me to participate in this event—standing in front of hundreds of people, with a microphone, on stage—and gave me a topic on the spot, you can imagine what my experience was like. Terrifying.

(11:05) Doreen Downing: A little fright there.

(11:06) Eric Atwood: More than a little. It was pure terror. I literally looked down the whole time at my feet and mumbled something. I don’t even know what I was supposed to talk about. I was supposed to tell a story, but I couldn’t.

From that moment on, I defined myself as a shy, scared, stupid kid. Because I didn’t really tell a story. I just mumbled and looked down. I felt like everyone was judging me as this shy, scared, stupid kid. So that’s how I defined myself. And that label stuck with me for the next 30 years. That’s really how I saw myself.

I would never put myself in that position again. I didn’t just avoid public speaking. I withdrew from people because of that label I put on myself. That was one of the most defining moments of my life. It wasn’t just a public speaking disaster. It changed how I saw myself, and it kept me from engaging with others. It made me shut down even more than I already was.

It wasn’t until my early forties that things started to shift. That’s a long time to feel that way about yourself.

Still, I don’t regret it, because it eventually led me to where I am today. If someone had told me 20 years ago that I’d be doing what I’m doing now, I would have said no way. That would have been the last career path I’d ever imagined, given who I was at the time.

So in a way, it was good for me. That challenge—and eventually overcoming it—made me the kind of person I am today and led me to do the work I now do.

(12:59) Doreen Downing: The message I just heard you give to folks out there listening is that no matter what the trauma is, there is a possibility to face it, work through it, and become more of the kind of person you were meant to be—that potential that’s still within.

(13:20) Doreen Downing: I was curious, and I think this is helpful for listeners too. You kept saying that you were the one who identified yourself that way. Did anyone around you actually come up to you afterwards and say, “Hey, dumb,” or “stupid,” or whatever it was you called yourself? Or was it just your own perception—a decision you made internally?

(13:44) Eric Atwood: Yes. I would say it was exclusively that. It was a self-inflicted definition, and it was self-inflicted pain that I was putting myself through for 30 years after that.

That’s a great question, because I don’t think—I don’t remember anybody ever saying something like that. And of course, most people wouldn’t say that, even if they felt that.

But it was me. It was just a self-perception of how I saw myself. And even though that’s how I felt, like that was the truth, it really wasn’t. I had a lot to say. I had a lot to share. And eventually I got to the place where I started liking myself instead of really hating myself.

That was part of it, that projection. Not liking myself and feeling like other people aren’t going to like me if I don’t like myself. That’s why I shut down. 

(14:39) Doreen Downing: I get it. I get the sense of these prison bars coming down, that you’re the one who’s trapping yourself in your own cage there and making that definition.

Well, the other direction I was going to go—but thank you for telling that story. And it does feel like it might resonate with a lot of people out there who have had moments. And a lot of people I work with, my clients, I’ve heard that very kind of story of fright. And not only, like you said, it wasn’t just fright. It was terror.

(15:15) Eric Atwood: It was. Yes.

(15:16) Doreen Downing: But the other thought I had, especially since you said earlier today with me that your mother saw you as the apple of her eye, and I saw what you said is that, well, that made you want to please and to comply.

(15:35) Doreen Downing: But it doesn’t sound like it gave you a strong sense of yourself. That you were okay. That you were lovable. Or that you were confident. Even though she, one of the biggest influences in our lives, our parents—even though she went, "Yay, you," there was something that didn’t sink into your psyche, into being confident as a young person.

(16:09) Eric Atwood: No, I was just the opposite of that. I feel like, if I think about it at depth, I feel like my mom was the only one who loved me.

And it did not feel like it was unconditional love. I felt like I needed to be a good boy in order for her to love me. And if I disappointed her, like I shared earlier, she was not going to love me. Or she was going to criticize.

I felt like I did not really like myself because I was not getting the right kind of love from my mom. And other people were not really expressing how much they liked me. And I do not know if I even needed that, but I did not feel that. I did not feel that for myself. I did not feel that from other people.

I just felt like it was not really authentic love, if you will, from my mom. And so I did not have that for myself. I do not want to blame my mom for my situation back then or how I felt about myself. She had something to do with it, but it was mostly, like we just discussed, it was mostly my self-perception.

I did not feel like I was worthy. I did not feel like I was enough. That is obviously very common with people. That manifested in me not talking with people and not liking my life.

(17:33) Doreen Downing: Well, I am going to move on in just a second, but I just had something that I thought was somewhat of a connection with how we, in general—you perhaps, but we in general as little kids—learn to view ourselves the way the important people view us.

In a way, if she was critical, there might have been, when you had your incident that you talked about—your episode—that you were self-critical. So self-critical that, I had the sense that you would know that she was unhappy. It was like she scolded you. And in a way, you scolded yourself.

And I just saw the connection between how we come to have confidence, and who teaches us to be confident in ourselves. Just wanted to make that note for folks.

(18:33) Eric Atwood: Yes. That is a great observation. And one other thing I will add quickly is—the relationship I had with my dad. My mom was a very critical person. My dad was very distant.

(18:44) Eric Atwood: I did not feel that love from him either. Even though I admired the work he did, working for CARE and being a very humble and kind person, we did not talk about anything other than sports.

(18:56) Eric Atwood: For 30 years, I did not really know him. He did not know me.

I did not feel that love from my dad either. I did not really have the right kind of love as a kid, even into my adulthood. It was very challenging. I think that affected how I saw myself.

(19:14) Doreen Downing: Thank you. And as long as you are saying that, let us go into adulthood. Because here you are, such a bright, brilliant, confident man, who is working with others who suffer from speaking anxiety and helping them be more expressed. Not just on a stage, but anywhere in life, which is stage anyway. What happened? What was the waking up?

(19:39) Eric Atwood: Soon after I turned 40, my wife and I were living in New Zealand, and I realized I was still very unhappy. Even though we were living in a beautiful place and doing work that we very much enjoyed, she had her own business, I owned my own consulting business, I still was unhappy. And I could not figure out why that was.

I started researching some personal development courses and workshops, and I found this organization called Landmark, which a lot of your listeners may be familiar with. I kind of looked at it as, this would be useful for me.

The Landmark Forum is a weekend workshop that really helps you get honest with yourself. It can be very intense and challenging, but it was exactly what I needed. Because I realized, into my early forties, I was not happy. There was something missing. So I decided I was going to take this workshop.

Two hours into the workshop, I realized this is exactly what I need. I need somebody to wake me up. Instead of thinking my life is hopeless and there is nothing more for me, I can do something about this.

The first couple of days were really eye-opening and heart-opening. Toward the end of the second day of that workshop, I felt called to step up in front of the entire group—about 150 participants—and share my story.

It had been 30 years since I had done anything like that, because the first time, 30 years ago, was, as I described, terrifying. But I felt pulled up to the stage. I felt like I needed to talk about what was happening, what I was feeling in that moment, the shifts I was experiencing in myself.

I went up there without worrying about what people thought of me. I really spoke from my heart for three or four minutes, and I felt like I was transformed in those few minutes.

During the break, several people came up to me to say how touched they were, how inspired they were. And I thought, wow, I just discovered something about myself. I have something to share. I can actually serve through my words. I can feel fully alive in front of a group for the first time.

In just a matter of minutes, I felt like I had overcome public speaking phobia. It was that transformative.

Not just that moment, but for several years, I started doing things differently. I started seeing myself differently. I started opening up to people, even people I had never met before.

I reached out to people I had not talked to in a long time—relatives, friends—and shared from my heart.

I completely changed my relationship with my dad. That is one thing I look back on. He has been gone for about 12 years now, but I was able to open up a whole new relationship with him. During the last five years of his life, we were very close. We talked about everything. We shared stories. We expressed love for each other.

That was a big, big thing in my life.

Landmark, then Speaking Circles, then men’s work and other things I was doing—reading self-help books—five years of intense self-introspection and personal development really changed my life.

And I wrote a book about it.

That was the beginning of my new journey, to waking up and finding my true self—and eventually doing the work that I am doing now.

(23:11) Doreen Downing: This is so touching and so real, because I do know you, and I do know the powerful person you are.

To hear more of the details and connect what happened for you and then hear about that breakthrough moment. In that breakthrough moment, I heard you say you opened your heart, you opened your mind.

Listeners, I think those are two nuggets you can take with you. The thinking, the mindset that you have, needs to be opened up. Also, your heart—the way in which you open up to risk and the willingness to expose yourself.

I’m going to take a break real quick here, because I want to get back and talk about what you’re currently doing, and how all of this is leading to how you help people today. We’ll be back in just a sec.

(24:08) Eric Atwood: Okay.

(24:12) Doreen Downing: Hi. We’re back with Eric Atwood, my friend and colleague, who now helps people become more authentic when they express themselves—and that’s anywhere in life, whether it’s a stage, a meeting, or personal relationships, and love.

Let’s continue our journey today. If you’re only tuning in now, please go back, because Eric’s story has already been one that I think is very relatable—about how you get trapped in your own self-perception, your own definition, your own identity. One that you may have created that is negative, and how do you break through that?

Eric told a story about how he did. So go back and listen to it. We’re going to continue now. Ah. Big breath, Eric. Yes. Big breath.

Where you can pick up any of the thread, because we’re moving forward into what you’re currently doing—and how you found yourself being somebody whose gift is now what you offer others.

(25:25) Eric Atwood: One thread I would like to pick up briefly is the speaking from the heart piece.

Because I think that is where we connect at the deepest level as human beings—when we really tap into our heart space and are in communication with each other from that space.

Speaking from the heart means really sharing who you are. Sharing your story. Or sharing a challenge. Being vulnerable. A feeling that you have. Something authentic. Something that is about you—how you think, how you feel about things.

That is where we are the most real. Rather than from our head, or trying to impress people, or wondering what people think of us.

We get in our head a lot. Just dropping in and speaking from that place is so important. It is who we truly are.

(26:14) Doreen Downing: Dropping in. You just said dropping in. Say just a little bit more about what dropping in means, so that people can actually maybe do it—right here, right now. What does dropping in mean, and how?

(26:28) Eric Atwood: The way I see it is almost literally moving out of your head and into your heart.

The thinking mind is where we typically operate and communicate from in most places. We are trying to share our knowledge or experience or something that we think—and we meet people at that place too. We often listen from that place as well.

The heart space, as I shared, is more about the feeling. It is more about the meaning of who we are and what we believe. That can be a story. That can be what is meaningful to us. What matters to us. Belief and feeling—that is the more authentic part of ourselves.

So literally going from that, there is a saying—I am not sure what the teaching is—but the longest distance we will travel as humans is from the head to the heart.

(27:31) Eric Atwood: It can be a long way to get. It is a huge gap for people. It is like they want to just be in their head. But the heart space is really where things open up and get real, where we connect in a really beautiful and authentic space with each other. When we speak from that place, it brings us closer together. It makes us feel like we are not separate at all.

(27:56) Doreen Downing: Ah, beautiful.

(27:57) Eric Atwood: We are just completely the same. The heart is our authentic self, the way I see it. It is where we connect at the deepest level. I just wanted to talk a little bit more about that, because I feel like it is really important. I think it is where we need to show up more as human being from that space.

(28:14) Doreen Downing: Absolutely. Right now, listeners, just visualize energy that is in your head. Take a breath. This idea that Eric is talking about—dropping down—just think about energy going down, down, down into your heart area.

Maybe even put your hand over your heart. There are many techniques we can teach you about how to drop down into your heart, so that words and expression come from a more authentic place. The energy that connects. That was Eric’s breakthrough—opening up his heart years and years ago.

So, Eric, what about today? What are you doing nowadays?

(29:13) Eric Atwood: In 2007, I discovered Speaking Circles and participated in the same Speaking Circle in Auckland, New Zealand for about four years.

Then the facilitator decided he was going to step away for personal reasons, and there was nobody else in New Zealand doing Speaking Circles. So I decided to go through the certification training with you and Lee in 2011, and I became certified at the end of that year.

Soon after, I started running my own circles in 2012 and decided to start my own business based on my Speaking Circles training. Since 2012, I have run my own business called The Speaker Studio, using the practices we teach in Speaking Circles—relational presence being the foremost one.

I have brought it into companies, into schools, and have worked with people one-on-one and in groups. Teaching these principles. Helping people communicate more authentically. Speaking from the heart. Listening. Using the practice of relational presence. Being with one person at a time. Feeling the sense of community in these spaces.

I coach people, authors, teachers, speakers, coaches. I also work with teams in companies, helping them communicate and collaborate more effectively, both in person and virtually.

I do a few other things too. I like to have variety in my business and my life. Copywriting is one of my joys as well. But for me, it is all about communicating authentically.

How do you show up in one-on-one conversations with people you know? Or with people you meet for the first time, networking? How do you run meetings? How are you part of a team? How do you show up as yourself in a team? That is what I have been doing for the last 12 or 13 years—running this business. I am always looking for opportunities and groups where I can serve.

For me, it is about helping people find their voice, just as you do. Helping them really express who they are. Serve. Fulfill their purpose—whatever walk of life, whatever work or career path they are on. Speaking about yourself and what matters to you. And in a way, serving and being there for other people. Being there with other people.

To me, that is what we are all here for, so in my small way, I help people do that. I feel privileged to be running Speaking Circles and to have people show up the way they do, to hear them tell me this work is life-changing.

That we are all here to show up for each other—I think that is the meaning of life. Not to get too ethereal there, but the work that I do is an extension of who I found myself to be. A lot of that is speaking my truth. Speaking out fully and helping others do the same.

(32:21) Doreen Downing: What you just said, “who I found myself to be,” has everything to do with speaking authentically.

It is a journey to your authentic self so that you can find the voice. And I think that sometimes people think, “Find your voice. What does that really mean?” Well, you have to find yourself. And guess what? There is your voice.

(32:49) Eric Atwood: Thank you. Yes, it took me a while to get to that place. But again, it is not about how long it takes. It is about getting there.

(32:58) Doreen Downing: Yes.

(32:58) Eric Atwood: And knowing that now that I know who I am, and I know the work that I am here to do, I can just keep finding those opportunities and keep being of service.

Because that, to me, is also what we are here for—making a difference in the world through our authentic selves and seeing the best in others, and then uplifting others.

(33:18) Doreen Downing: Yes. Who I am. What I am meant to do. It makes it clear what your life is about—if you are online, or if you are tracking that sense of self and finding yourself.

So folks, today was all about this journey to your true self. Your authentic self. How to do that. And you have heard a story today from Eric, who has had some challenges. And I am sure all of you have had challenges at some point.

And those challenges are part of what will make you even stronger—if you are able to stop, go, “Whoa. Let me look back. Let me learn,” as opposed to, “Oh, it is all in the past. It does not matter.”

Eric, we are coming to an end now, and I would love to open up the space just for you to listen into this now moment—new now, new now moment—and see how you want to close our conversation today.

(34:23) Eric Atwood: Yes. Thank you for that invitation. What is coming to me is something you just shared—being in the moment.

That is something I have also learned to do through my journey, and through the practices that I engage in now: really appreciating my life. Appreciating my whole journey, including the challenges. And sometimes, especially the challenges.

Because if we are able to overcome them and learn things from those challenges, we get that it is making us stronger. It is waking us up to something different. Maybe waking us up to who we truly are, and finding our purpose.

I live from that place of deep gratitude for every day that I have. Every single thing that has happened to me. Every opportunity ahead of me. All the relationships that I have. The work that I do. Seeing all the possibilities. And what a miracle it is to be alive. And to be the kind of people we are—having these opportunities to do great work in the world, and feel good about ourselves, and feel good about being alive.

I am getting a little bit off on a tangent here, but for me, it is about being in the moment, loving our lives, and living from a place of gratitude and service. That is enough for one life, and that is how I feel today, and I am really grateful to have this opportunity to speak with you.

(35:50) Doreen Downing: I am grateful to have the opportunity to share you—yourself, your presence, your life, your story, your work—with my audience. Thank you, Eric.

(36:01) Eric Atwood: Thank you, Doreen.