Floating Pools & Future Rules: Kevin Post on +POOL, CMAHC, and Mentoring

In this episode of the Talking Pools podcast, Rudy interviews Kevin Post, CEO of Councilman Hunsaker, discussing innovative projects like the Plus Pool, the importance of mentorship in the aquatics industry, and the future of AI in pool management. Kevin shares insights on staying passionate in the industry, the significance of CMAHC membership, and the need for continuous education and leadership development. The conversation highlights the diverse opportunities within the aquatics field and the critical role of lifeguards and industry standards.

takeaways

• Councilman Hunsaker has been a leader in aquatic design for over 55 years.
• The Plus Pool project aims to provide a sustainable swimming solution while cleaning the river.
• Mentorship is crucial for passing on institutional knowledge in the aquatics industry.
• CMAC membership offers transparency and a voice in shaping aquatic health codes.
• Early career experiences shape leadership and mentoring styles.
• Lifeguards play a vital role as first responders in aquatic safety.
• Going beyond minimum standards is essential for pool health and safety.
• AI has the potential to revolutionize pool management and maintenance.
• Continuous education is key for growth in the aquatics industry.
• There are diverse career opportunities in the aquatics field beyond just pool service.

Sound Bites

• "We are not just a bunch of pool boys."
• "Check your alkalinity."
• "Mentorship is important in every industry."

Chapters

00:00
Introduction to Councilman Hunsaker and Kevin Post

06:02
Staying in the Aquatics Industry: Passion and Evolution

11:19
The Importance of CMAC Membership

18:30
Designing a Career: Programming Precedes Design

22:29
Future Aspirations: Building the Next Generation

22:57
Empowering Small Business Owners

23:32
Essential Pool Maintenance Tips

24:29
The Importance of Knowledge Sharing

25:54
Going Beyond Minimum Standards

26:47
The Lifeguard's Role and Challenges

27:15
The Lifeguard Shortage Crisis

28:40
The Lifeguard's Predictive Responsibilities

30:43
Personal Insights and Industry Passion

32:47
Unexpected Successes in Mentorship

33:55
The Value of Mentorship in the Industry

35:04
Finding a Mentor in the Pool Industry

35:57
Future Changes in the Aq

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Transcript

 Rudy Stankowitz (00:00) Hey everybody, it's Friday once again. I'm Rudy Stankiewicz, this is the Talking Pools podcast and today... We have one of our top 10 mentors with us, Mr. Kevin Post. Has his hands in a little bit of everything. He is the CEO. of Councilman Huntsinker? Kevin Post (00:16) That is correct, as of last year. Rudy Stankowitz (00:18) And what exactly is Councilman Hunsicker? Kevin Post (00:21) Well, thanks for asking and thanks for having me. So Councilman Hunsaker is, well, it's the firm created by two legendary aquatic, you know, I'd say grandfathers of our industry, Doc Councilman and Joe Hunsaker. So in 1970, Doc Councilman and Joe Hunsaker founded Councilman Hunsaker as one of the first aquatic design engineering firms. We got our start working with high end venues, a lot of Olympic facilities, the 1996 Olympic facility and Atlanta, was one of ours. So we've been a business now for over 55 years and we now have a national presence working in all 50 states as well as some international facilities and. Is it four offices around the country or headquarters in Saint Louis where we were founded? I'm in our Denver office. We also have Dallas and Carlsbad as well as a few people actually up in Michigan now. Rudy Stankowitz (01:09) You guys have your hands on an exciting project up in New York in the Hudson River, is it the Hudson River or the East River? The plus pool, Talk to me about that. Kevin Post (01:18) Plus pool. Well, first of all, the plus pools, it's getting a lot of recent notoriety, which is exciting. But there have been people, including representatives of the CalPAT Hunchback, are working on this for over 15, maybe 20 years. The idea is kind of amazing. It's not a pool like any of us had ever thought about, which is one of the reasons why it's going to do it innovative. It's a modern filtration method that in a single pass would create swimmable water in the river. So the idea is this plus pool and I'll give a little bit of background of the plus. It's meant to be a community pool and each of those, I'll say arms of the plus is a different segment of the community, shallow water, deep water, lap swimming. But then the theory of the pool is that it'll be floating in the river because there's not a lot of land in downtown areas that need help with community pools. As well as it's the filtration will actually clean the river as it's sitting there. So the water that people are in and swimming is gonna pass through and that way as it goes back into the river will be cleaner than when it entered. So not only is providing swimming area but it's also cleaning up the dirty river water. Rudy Stankowitz (02:31) So that's something insanely sustainable that would appeal largely to, the new direction of eco-friendliness that we've been going in in a really, really big way. And it's kind of like, it's more like gills, isn't it? Like gills on a fish catching the debris that comes in and then it catches the debris again on the way out. So it's filtered twice before it hits the river. And it floats. That's the other thing. It floats. It's not pylons, nothing. It's there. Kevin Post (03:02) We have naval engineers that are working on the actual basin because it is going to float like a barge in the water. I, to point out, about how this could grow, every major city we think of was done on a major waterway. That was how, you know, our network of everything was tied together. Now those areas are built out. There's no space for a large pool. That land is too premium for business or housing. But they probably have a dirty waterway. right there. So now pretty much every large city that needs that swimming lessons are urban areas typically to have a lack of access to community pools. And this could be a solution not only to provide those swimming lessons, but also clean up the river and expand usable space in the downtown area. Rudy Stankowitz (03:49) To me, when I first heard about it, sounds like something totally out of like Buck Rogers in the 25th century. Floating swimming pools almost sounds like floating cities. plans on expanding to other areas. Kevin Post (03:59) Correct. So the actual, uh, the initial phase, should say, is a test phase. And so a floating barge with the filtration system, you know, is supposed to be put in so we can kind of have a proof concept before the plus pool, you know, permanent installation, um, would happen. Yeah. Once the test is done and it's kind of validated, this is not a pool from a health perspective, from a health code perspective. So we're trying to balance what we consider from a pool water sanitation, but also, uh, swimming beaches. is actually kind of a more relevant comparison in terms of safety aspects. We're looking at E. coli levels and bacteria growth as opposed to chlorine levels because we're not going to chlorinate water that's going back into a river with fish and other things. Rudy Stankowitz (04:42) That's fantastic. So let me ask you this question. This is going to kind of jump around just a little bit, but hey, that's the way that I do things. you've been in the industry a long time. I'm not going to ask you how you got in, because I don't really like that question. Everybody asks it, and it's all very kind of similar. We all kind of fell and asked backwards, and that really sums it up. But let me ask you this. Why do you stay in the industry? Why do you stay in the industry? Kevin Post (10:04) You know, I always tell people once you're in it's just hard to get out and you like you said, we all stumble in for a different reason. For me, I was someone who grew up around the pool. I was a lifeguard. I was a swimmer. It's definitely one of those things where I say, know, 90 % of the time I'm not even working. I just love the fact that I can come and talk about pools and water safety and it's my job and everyone I surround myself with has the... same thoughts and ideas. So I think that's why I stay in. It's just something I've always known and loved. I also, for me personally, I feel like I have been in the industry for a long time, but it hasn't been the same thing over and over again. Things do keep changing. New opportunities arise. We weren't talking about cold plunges 20 years ago, and now it's a regular topic at every conference. Rudy Stankowitz (10:52) So you're the CEO of this large consulting firm for the industry, like you said, representation in all of the states. You've got this big, massive project going on in New York. I know you have other projects going on as well. So you decided you didn't have enough on your plate. You might as well just be board president for CMAC. What were you thinking? Kevin Post (11:14) I don't know if I was thinking at the time. So, and I was also one of those voluntold situations. So, you know, the, the creation of the monocootic health code and the creation of the CMAC goes back through Councilman Hunsaker's legacy all the way back to Joe Hunsaker. He was in the room during the first conversations of a national code being needed to be created. Scott Hunsaker served on the board and treasurer helping create, you know, the CMAC originally. ⁓ Carl Nylander, one of my business partners served on the board as well as president technical chair committee. So we've had a long history, and, and just supporting that. And so as I stepped into the CEO role, it kind of felt like it was, ⁓ you know, my turn to take the reins on the CMAC. And as we were looking at, you know, growing in new directions and, and. Yeah. Where do we go from a sustainability standpoint? which a lot of other people on the board kind of asked that I would step in as the board president. And so I said, yes. I don't know why I said yes, but I did. I've actually, it's been great. The board's always really great to work with. And I'm excited about trying to figure out where we go next. Rudy Stankowitz (12:23) I'm ask you a question, Is the CMAC in trouble? Kevin Post (12:26) It's a fair question. The CDC is in trouble. However, as a board president, when I came in, even before what's happened with the CDC, I made the comment that the CMAC has been funded by the CDC for over 10 years. The CDC has never had a history of indefinitely funding initiatives like this. They typically set up the seed funding for the initial three to five years and hope that it becomes a self-sustaining. So we had already passed the typical length of CDC support. So regardless of what happened to the CDC, my mission as the president was to figure out how we're self-sustaining. I always wanted to basically be the CDC partner where we say, Hey, we are the providers of this ⁓ ongoing update cycle and we'll, do all this as a partner. so that you can have an updated model aquatic health code at all time. So it didn't really change our direction. It just really validated the fact that whether it was gonna happen for reason A or reason B, that the idea that CDC's funding of things like this is going away. So regardless of whether it was because of our tenure or just because of new direction of politics. So that's. Yeah, I would say that's where we are. I'm actually really excited about the opportunities. We're looking at where our past revenue streams have been and how we can enhance on that. We're looking at gaps in the industry and where we feel we can fill it. And then, of course, we're also looking at partnerships with other industry organizations where we feel are doing a great job, but maybe we can help fill a gap again. interesting time for the CDC, though. Rudy Stankowitz (14:00) I am a huge proponent of the CMAC. I think Christie Reister is fantastic. I think Dewey is fantastic. just an observation as a member, just something that I see and I could be wrong, but to me, I see heavy involvement from health officials, sanitarians. I see heavy involvement from the aquatics industry and I see the involvement from the pool industry to be lacking. in comparison. Can you do me and do everybody a solid, do me a solid, do the CMAC a solid, just explain the benefit, because I've done it before, and maybe your words will sound better than mine have, in becoming a member of this organization and talk about the ability to move mountains. But I'll let you take it if you could, please. Kevin Post (14:49) Sure. Yeah, as you said, you the CMAQ, it was created as a very unique council for the ModicQuadric Health Code. One of the key aspects is how the voices are divvied up. It has a large input from public health, which is important. It also then has input from operators, industry leaders, all aspects. Anyone is allowed to Be a member and then members have the voting right on any changes. Change requests are all public. So the reason I'm sharing this is it's a great organization to get involved in because it's a very transparent method. You said moving mountains, you know, you don't move a mountain overnight and you don't do it by yourself. So if you look at what the organization has done over the past 10 years, it's just really impressive and you have to kind of take a step back to realize how far ⁓ it's come. ⁓ but you know, getting involved, you know, specifically with the C Mac, you're involved in setting, you know, creating our next round of guidelines. So, you know, I mentioned earlier, cold plunges, ⁓ we have surf venues, we have large swimming lagoons. you know, all of these, new directions and research is coming out of the, the C Mac and going through the CDC. My favorite part about it is the volunteers that we have. You mentioned our staff, which are amazing, but it's also then the volunteers are some of the just the ultimate experts. You and I, when we're in the room with them, we say, we're just some pool boys. These people are just really smart and we can learn a lot. And so I think as we look at the industry, the CMAQ has provided a lot of education for public health and commercial pool operators where those opportunities may not have existed without. Rudy Stankowitz (16:34) What job do you think you had as a teenager best prepared you for what you're doing right now? Kevin Post (16:39) I don't think it was actually my job. I was on my high school drum line and, we were national champions and what I learned was hard work, practice makes perfect. and then teamwork where we were absolutely, we were scored as a unit and, therefore our weakest link was going to be our lowest, you our score. And so we, learn about how to bring people up instead of put people down. Being the best by yourself meant nothing. Being the best with your group meant everything. Rudy Stankowitz (17:11) When you think back to your first year in this business, what do you wish somebody had whispered in your ear to make things easier? Kevin Post (17:21) You don't have to know everything to be an expert. So when I started at Councilman Hunsaker, it about 18 years ago, I tell people I thought they hired me because I knew everything about pools. I was ready to be a pool consultant. Now 18 years later, I can still only think about all the things I don't know. And what I've learned is I have a network of people. I know people who know things I don't, and therefore I know how to get information. I have access to information. And with that, that goes directly to this topic of mentoring. The people who meant the most to me were people who shared information and were never trying to hide it, never trying to position themselves. And so early on, I felt like I needed to be the owner of something special to stand out, when really, if you're the sharer of knowledge, is when you stand out. And you almost start learning more when you become the teacher and start putting yourself out there. Rudy Stankowitz (18:15) think you have to. I think when you step into that role, it helps to keep you up to date as well. mean, there's definitely, there are definitely benefits, whether they're immediately noticeable or not. It does keep you up to speed with the latest technology for sure. People in aquatics sometimes sink or swim fast. What's your trick for spotting who's ready to take on more and then who needs a little more time maybe in the shallow end? Kevin Post (18:42) You know, I don't know if I've perfected that. would say the way I've done it, whether it's right or wrong, but you try to put that challenge to everyone, give people opportunities, and the cream rises to the top. And sometimes it's putting people into challenging situations and those ones who come out, you know, stepping up and rising above, you can identify that they're, you know, they're people that are going to continue doing that. Rudy Stankowitz (19:03) if I was to ask you what's your story, what would you tell me? Kevin Post (19:06) my story, I tell people that my title is senior command a boy now I was a pool rat swimmer, lifeguard, pool operator, joined councilman Huntsaker was doing community meetings and public input for his feasibility studies and meeting with operators and evaluating old pools. And I spent a lot of time on the, on the pool deck and, ⁓ Rudy Stankowitz (19:11) Ha ha ha ha. Kevin Post (19:31) when I look back, that's still who I associate myself with from the industry is that commercial pool operator. So that's where, that's how I view my history and my past and even kind of where I am today at Senior Cabana Boy. Rudy Stankowitz (19:45) Okay, senior, not senior, senior, senior. Kevin Post (19:48) I'm head cabana boy because I've been here for a while. Rudy Stankowitz (19:52) There you go. You find yourself talking more or just letting others watch how you handle things until it clicks for them. Kevin Post (19:59) That's actually a great question. Rudy Stankowitz (21:37) You find yourself talking more or just letting others watch how you handle things until it clicks for them. Kevin Post (21:43) That's actually a great question. I think I talk too much. So I am trying to listen more, but I also push the people I'm mentoring to listen more. So at some point we're just sitting there in silence. What I've been working on doing is asking more questions and to provoke thought as opposed to making statements or claims or opinions. Rudy Stankowitz (22:02) funniest mistake you've ever seen on the job that actually ended up being a turning point for someone. Kevin Post (22:08) ⁓ man, funny mistake. I don't know if the mistakes on the jobs are funny because they're usually big dollars and a lot of people are upset. Rudy Stankowitz (22:10) funny. Kevin Post (22:18) man, and then he said it was a turning point for them. I don't know if I have a good answer for that question. Rudy Stankowitz (22:23) Okay, we can come back to it It is a odd question. If building a career in this industry were like designing a pool, what part comes first? Plumbing, decking, water, what? Kevin Post (22:34) The statement I use with Mick and Sue Nelson who did Build-A-Pool, they were with USA Swimming for a long time, but the message at Build-A-Pool is programming precedes design. You have to know what kind of, have to have the end in mind before you can start planning. What are you planning to do with the pool? Then we can tell you how you should design and engineer it. What are you planning to do with your life? What are your goals? What are you trying to achieve? And then let's talk about that roadmap. that can get you there. But if you don't know where you're going, then you really don't even know how to start. Rudy Stankowitz (23:08) horror movies, action films, or rom-coms. Kevin Post (23:11) Probably the action films, big fan of the Marvel movies as well as... Anything kind of related like that. the Lord of the Rings, anything like that. Rudy Stankowitz (23:16) Do you Do you think the Russo brothers did the Hulk dirty? Kevin Post (23:25) I I'll get a lot of people upset. I don't. I actually, I like the Hulk and ⁓ Rudy Stankowitz (23:30) I like the whole two, but Thanos kicked his ass in about the first three minutes of end game and then that was it. were you disappointed with that? Kevin Post (23:39) I would have been, you know what, that scene was great because if it had ended there though, there was no movie. And so Thanos had to show that he was the most powerful. So, right. Rudy Stankowitz (23:45) That's true. If the Hulk won the fight, the film was over, done. I still kept hoping for a comeback, whether he won or not, just taking another shot at it, that I will remain forever saddened by the way they did the Hulk in those films. Kevin Post (24:03) That's true. They'd come back with some sort of modification and all of he could stand up to him again. That'd be... Rudy Stankowitz (24:08) some way to try to redeem himself or maybe he held out a little bit better, I don't know. What do you do when you see somebody ready to throw in the towel? Do you help them fold it neatly or do you show them why it's worth hanging onto? Kevin Post (24:23) The one of the things I always tell people, first thing I need to understand is why. Understanding why before I can even start addressing the guys. So why are they, you know, in that zone? Why are they in that mood? Why are they feeling that way in their life? Because there's not necessarily right or wrong. Maybe it is time to fold up the towel and talk about the best, you know, what's next. But if, if it's a momentary situation, maybe it's, know, the rats kind of moving its way through the snake. Then let's talk about that and see if we can maybe lift you up and how do we help you work through it as opposed to just hanging up that towel. Rudy Stankowitz (25:00) You're still heavily involved with the PHA, correct? Kevin Post (25:03) correct, so the board member as well as several numerous committees. Rudy Stankowitz (25:07) What are the benefits of volunteering for that organization? Kevin Post (25:11) I was just talking to some of my colleagues on the board yesterday. I think it's the network and the idea that I now know that I don't have to know everything. When I get asked a question, I can almost instantly tell you the email or phone number of the expert in our industry to go call. And it's whether they've been a board member with me or they're serving on committees with me. You hear these people talk and you're just like, wow, we are. not just a bunch of pool boys in this industry. We're actually, there's some pretty smart people here. And then like I said, I've just having those contacts, having that ability to just pick up the phone and call for input advice. It comes from working with people in these volunteer situations, putting in the long hours, showing the shared commitment. And that's really the ultimate benefit of doing it. Rudy Stankowitz (26:02) Sticking with the Marvel topic, what's your end game? Kevin Post (26:08) Great question. yeah, at this point I'm really taking, trying to take councilman Huntsaker to the future. want to build up our next generation of leaders and prepare councilman Huntsaker for the next 50 years. ⁓ I have always had a passion for teaching, as we're talking about mentoring. I, when I went to school, I did get my MBA. And during that, there was a lot of talk of when you're in corporate America and you're vice president of whatever, and there wasn't a lot of talk for. small pool, you know, or small business owners, like a lot of our pool service companies would be. so I think my end game is I'd love to find an opportunity to teach small business, whether it's out of university or maybe even with PhD in the new center of excellence. the idea that I think it's a gap that's missing. It's a passion to buy something I've really enjoyed learning about and, ⁓ would love to help elevate people as in our industry, by sharing that knowledge. Rudy Stankowitz (26:58) If you could sneak one sticky note of advice into every new PoolText toolkit, what would it say? Kevin Post (27:05) check your alkalinity. Rudy Stankowitz (27:07) Check your alkalinity. Kevin Post (27:09) You Rudy Stankowitz (27:10) and UGH Kevin Post (27:12) I just share that whenever I troubleshoot pools, that's the number one thing that I see as a go-to issue is people who don't even understand to check it. Rudy Stankowitz (27:18) You're not wrong. Kevin Post (27:21) but it also, especially if you're a new pool operator, you just got from through CPO understand that that's like pools one on one at your entry level course. And you can learn so much more in whatever area of the field you're in. you're, if you're a service person, there's gotta be a guy who's been working there for five, 10, maybe even 20 years, hang out with them, have lunch with him, see what he's willing to share. Um, you know, like I said, any part of the industry, there's, there's always those people who are willing to share knowledge. so, you know, take it. Rudy Stankowitz (27:39) Mm. Kevin Post (27:50) And maybe the recommendation is maybe to go ask for it because they don't necessarily know that they're the expert at the time. They've been doing it for so long, but when they go or asked for help and support, they'll always almost always say yes. Rudy Stankowitz (28:04) think a lot of it comes down to... things not getting done unless they're inspected, setting the pace. Because I see when health officials, but this is commercial pools, obviously not residential pools, but it definitely does bleed over. But with commercial pools, health officials come out, they check 18 items, maybe a dozen and a half items. And there's nothing wrong with that. That's what they're supposed to do. And I understand they have a lot on their plates. They have a lot of pools. They also do food service inspections, septic inspections, all the way up and through marijuana dispensaries, dispending on the state that you're in. But what they're doing is a spot check. They're doing a spot count. So they come out, they test chlorine, they test pH, and they check for a bunch of other things. So then what happens is you see a lot of folks that are maintaining those pools check chlorine, check pH, and then nothing else. And you know, just because those things aren't inspected by the health official, it doesn't mean that they're not important. So you you're you're correct. It ties into so much of everything going beyond. what's inspected in order to become somebody who's just getting by versus somebody who's really a pro in this industry, Kevin Post (29:17) I've made the statement if you go through life accepting the minimum, your life will be minimally acceptable. Rudy Stankowitz (29:23) I love it. Kevin Post (29:23) And I think that's right. yeah, the health department, they're checking the bare bones minimum. And that's what we want. We don't want to regulate the world to death. We need to focus on what is it? The health officials focus on what's a health crisis. As the pool operator, you're supposed to focus on the entire pool health, which is more than just chlorine in the water for fecal incidents. And then also, like I said, the Rudy Stankowitz (29:47) correct. Kevin Post (29:50) What's codified is always kind of, it's always set the minimums usually, but if you always look, there's, then there's the ideals or then there's, you know, the above and beyonds. And so, yeah, don't stop at the minimum just because that's all that's in the code or it's all in inspector checks. Rudy Stankowitz (30:03) If pool industry training came with a safe word, what would yours be? And be honest, would people be yelling it daily? during season. Kevin Post (30:14) What would my safe word be? It's supposed to be something Rudy Stankowitz (31:24) If pool industry training came with a safe word, what would yours be? And be honest, would people be yelling it daily? during season. Kevin Post (31:34) What would my safe word be? It's supposed to be something like chopstick or something. So we know it's... Rudy Stankowitz (31:42) something absurd. you go. Pineapple. Kevin Post (31:43) Something absurd. ⁓ Pineapple. If it was going, if that was the word that was being used in the industry right now, and it was a pool operator looking at their lifeguard schedule, there'd be a lot of pineapples and chopsticks being yelled out right now because, well, of course, right now in the industry, everyone's gone back to school. And you can tell even other businesses, restaurants are struggling with staff. But even this summer was another summer of struggling to field guards at facilities and not everyone opening all their pools. So it's continuing to be a challenge. Rudy Stankowitz (32:14) scary. And that's, that's unfortunately, folks don't realize you hear about the lifeguard shortage in a lot of areas. And because of that, a lot of pools don't get open. And because these pools don't get open, a lot of people in those areas don't learn to swim. And that's very scary. And the shame is, I think that the lifeguard position isn't really recognized for what it truly is. These are not just summer jobs for kids, this is a first responder position. And I'll argue that with anybody all day long. that's what it is. Kevin Post (32:48) to your lifeguard competitions and our team name those first responders. That's what we always tell everyone. might not be the highest certified or educated, but we are like the first ones on site within minutes of an incident happen. Rudy Stankowitz (33:00) Absolutely. Kevin Post (33:01) Another one of my friends from the industry, he was always saying it's not fair because lifeguards are expected to be like Notre Dames. You're supposed to predict what might happen and be ready for it at any time. Where EMS and doctors, EMS get the call and they have usually on average eight minutes while they're sitting in the ambulance ride to think about what they were told on the phone. We have a cardiac emergency. We have a gentleman. We have an infant. We, you know, there's a lot of things that they can process before they show up. And then the same thing for the doctors. They've had all this information. They've gotten details from the EMS and they have nurses around them. so lifeguards are put in a very challenging situation where they're supposed to almost be predictive and reactionary and instantly react to the right situation and not have any moments to think. So you can argue it's a lot more challenging. Rudy Stankowitz (33:50) Well, and add on top of that the fact that when there's not an emergency, they're on guard mount. The firemen at the firehouse are, you know, they're doing whatever they're doing. You know, they joke about the cops in the donut shop until the call comes in. I know that's not necessarily true, but you know, you're not sitting there looking specifically at one area, waiting for whatever it is you deal with to happen. I mean, the only thing I can really compare to that possibly is military. So they, again, really just don't get the notoriety that the position deserves, let me ask you this. What's more painful, explaining hydraulics to a rookie or explaining at a family barbecue why you get a little bit turned on when you're at a water park and they leave the pump room door cracked slightly open? Kevin Post (34:42) I don't have to explain that. People know that that just by the way I talk about pools at family gatherings, they could go ahead. We can tell that you get excited when that, so I don't have to explain myself on that one. And luckily here at Councilman Huntsager, maybe hire some of the smartest engineers. And again, I don't explain anything to them. They teach me stuff new every day. Rudy Stankowitz (35:02) Have you ever got caught being nosy and at a pool vacation otherwise and had them not extremely friendly about the fact that you were nosing around? Kevin Post (35:15) I've been caught nosing around, I usually get out of it by simply, even if we haven't worked on the pool, I'll just state, oh, I'm with Councilman Hunsaker. We're pool engineers. I'm just here to inspect your, I'm just checking out your equipment. So I'm saying all true things. And then the person who hears it just hears engineering and goes, oh, okay. Rudy Stankowitz (35:34) What's one random thing about you outside of pools that would completely surprise people in the industry? Kevin Post (35:40) You know from an industry standpoint how much I talk about loving pools the thing that People would be shocked to know is I was terrified of pools and swimming lessons when I was six years old and younger We moved to Texas When I was around that six seven years old and we had a pool in our backyard and my mom was too worried about my Risk of drowning and so she put me on the swim team and that had changed kind of the trajectory of my life, but If that moment hadn't happened, I was a kid who wouldn't put his face in the water, didn't want to be in the water, ran away from ocean waves, and now I can't get away from it. Rudy Stankowitz (36:13) have you ever had someone you worked with take your advice in a direction you didn't expect and have it actually work out better than you had planned? Kevin Post (36:23) Well, that's a really interesting question. I don't know if I would say that they took it a different direction, but I have definitely had situations where, you know, I give people guidance, especially in the younger generation. I give them guidance in terms of maybe what I heard or what I thought and what they come back with is way more than I expected and way more. that is my statement there is even as someone who's been around the industry for a long time. know, leveraging those, younger generation and what they know is, is really key to continue, continuing your own education. Rudy Stankowitz (36:55) if your style was a waterpark feature. Would you be a wave pool or a lazy river? Kevin Post (37:02) I would... Yeah, the action river. I definitely want to be the lazy river, cool, calm, collected. But every now and then, you know, got to have a little bit of fun. Maybe we have that little action river at times. Rudy Stankowitz (37:02) Or somewhere in between. rapids just every now and then. Kevin Post (37:20) Yeah. Rudy Stankowitz (37:21) Why do you think mentorship is so important? Kevin Post (37:24) You know, mentorship is important in every industry, but we are definitely an industry where institutional knowledge and institutional knowledge is key. Whether you're running your community pool and there's been a guy who's running the same way for 30 years. He knows a lot about that because every pool is a little different. You know, or if it's people who have been designing and engineering pools and across the country and worked with all the different health codes. Mentoring is, I think, important for leaders to do. It's a sign of leadership that you need to start passing on your knowledge. But I also think it's really important from the younger generation to be open to the idea of being mentored. And actually, I keep saying the younger generation. I would say the middle. It's actually the group who are probably in their 30s and are really primed to be the next level of leaders. Are they soaking up? everything they can from the people who are going to be retiring from the industry in the next 10 years. Rudy Stankowitz (38:21) How do you think somebody coming into the industry should go about identifying a potential mentor? Kevin Post (38:25) You know, this is obviously very hard. You know, I think the first thing I would do is look around where you are, look at the people you meet with. First thing you have to ask yourself, are you surrounding yourself with people that are better than you, people that are smarter than you, people that are maybe different than you? If you don't say yes to that first question, then you're probably not connected to someone who's going to be your mentor. So first, find that find that group of of where you can really push your boundaries. And then once you're there, you're going to be uncomfortable, which is key to growing and find someone who's already gotten to that comfort zone and ask, you know, how did you get there? And I said, most of the time, people who, once they get asked, get excited to share. Rudy Stankowitz (39:06) What drastic changes do you see for the industry occurring over the next five years? Kevin Post (39:14) I don't know pros and cons to the aquatics industry. We move slowly. So over the next year, I don't know if there's any dramatic change. It's we're slow moving. You know, over the next five years, the thing that I'm always interested in is how will AI impact our industry? We don't think about. You know, AI bots doing a lot of cool things, but we have data, you know, our chemical controllers pull data all the time and it's really hard to. for us to analyze that? Is there a way to improve that? Is there a way to predict when maintenance items are going to go wrong? Is there way to pre-order chemicals? I think there is opportunity for ⁓ AI right now. I think there's a lot of skepticism because it's certainly not there yet. But in five years, I think we'll see it around somewhere on a normal piece of equipment that we use in the pool. Rudy Stankowitz (40:07) Doing pools by drone. Kevin Post (40:08) Right. Yeah, the lifeguard bot that dives into electric. Rudy Stankowitz (40:10) It seems less and less far-fetched as we go along, doesn't it? Kevin Post (40:18) Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, from a lifeguarding standpoint, you know, I'm not saying that we should have a robot save us, but the most challenging part of lifeguarding is the recognition. It's hard to train how to scan. It's hard to monitor if someone's scanning properly. It's hard to do training on scanning in an effective, measurable way. If we could use AI to assist lifeguards in the scanning and really enhance the reaction time. That's a huge improvement because we know the time is everything when on those rescues. Rudy Stankowitz (40:52) A lot of us enter the swimming pool industry by learning a route. We get a job, we learn a route, we get really good at it, we decide we're gonna open our own business, and then as far as business knowledge goes, we kinda learn along the way. Is there currently a better way? Kevin Post (41:13) My recommendation, it's still in the works, but I mentioned already the Center of Excellence. So, PHA is in the process of creating the Center of Excellence. ⁓ Dr. Adam Carchmarci is leading that effort. And I have been in discussions with them about doing some of these business classes ⁓ as part of that. And so, there will be ⁓ access to that type of information coming via PHA, because as we've talked, it's been a recognized gap for our pool. or pool people trying to grow successful businesses. Rudy Stankowitz (41:45) And of course, Adam, industry badass, longtime CEO president of NDPA, did a fantastic job over there before you all scooped him up. I expect to see a I know I'll see a lot of great things from him in his current role. So yeah, absolutely. So if folks want to reach out to you, is that OK? Kevin Post (42:03) Yeah, absolutely. Rudy Stankowitz (42:05) How would they get a hold of you? Kevin Post (42:06) They can try my email Kevin post all one word at CH h2o.com Or they can go to our website councilman hunsaker.com if they submit a Inquiry on the website. They'll get that email to me Rudy Stankowitz (42:19) Is there anything that we didn't cover that you want to say to the listeners of this episode, before we go today that you think they should really take to heart? Kevin Post (42:29) I think the thing to remember about our industry is no matter where you are right now or what you're doing, there's more opportunity. We are a lot bigger industry than people realize. So if you think you're just, you know, a guy with a truck and a bucket of chlorine, I was just a kid as a cabana boy. Rudy Stankowitz (42:52) Now you're back to senior, about a point. Kevin Post (42:54) And now I'm back to senior command employee, you know, there's, there's like I there's, have chemists, we have engineers, we have a lot of business professionals, there's sales opportunities, manufacturing, code health officials. mean, our industry has all of this. So if you like pools and what you're doing, there's probably a way for you to find your niche in our industry. and so that'd be my recommendation is, If you like it, keep looking for what's next, because there's always opportunities to grow. said, I think we have a lot of successful small business owners in our industry. So it's a real powerful partner. Rudy Stankowitz (43:28) We do, and I think if you ask most people, they will tell you that a big part of why they do what they do is because they love this industry. And it's really, it's neat to see such a passionate, diverse group of people. all on the same page and the culture of sharing that has come about in the past decade also amazing. So Kevin Post, Councilman Hunsaker, one of our top 10 mentors up for the Mentor of the Year award. Did you see the belt? Kevin Post (44:00) I saw it. My kids are pretty excited. They want to know when I get to bring it home. Rudy Stankowitz (44:02) Fingers crossed, fingers crossed. You're definitely in the top 10 in the running. So time will tell. Kevin, thank you so much for being with us today. I appreciate you, ⁓ Any time, everybody. Thank you for listening. Without you, this podcast doesn't exist. We do this with you. Kevin Post (44:14) Thanks for having me Rudy. Rudy Stankowitz (44:22) This is the Talking Pools podcast. I'm Rudy Stankiewicz. Until next time, be good, be safe.