Life After a Cardiac Event: Lessons Learned

In this episode of Talking Pools, Wayne shares his harrowing experience with a cardiac event that nearly cost him his life. He discusses the support he received from his family and medical professionals, reflecting on the importance of health and recovery. The conversation then shifts to the implications of such health scares on life perspectives and the lessons learned. The hosts also delve into the complexities of insurance, particularly regarding hazmat liability in the pool service industry, emphasizing the need for proper coverage. Finally, they address communication challenges within the pool service team, highlighting the importance of clear communication with clients and among team members to ensure smooth operations and maintain trust.

takeaways

• Wayne experienced a cardiac event that was life-threatening.
• The importance of immediate medical response and support from family.
• Health issues can change one's perspective on life.
• Insurance coverage is crucial for pool service businesses.
• Communication is key in maintaining client relationships.
• Employees must be responsible and communicate effectively.
• Trust between employers and employees is essential.
• Health scares can serve as wake-up calls for better self-care.
• Proper training and communication can prevent misunderstandings.
• It's important to engage with listeners and share experiences.

Sound Bites

• "I am the walking dead right now"
• "It's the weird stuff that happens"
• "You can't babysit your employees"

Chapters

00:00
Wayne's Health Scare: A Personal Journey

05:51
Recovery and Reflections on Life

11:30
Understanding Cardiac Events and Their Impact

14:36
Insurance Insights: Protecting Your Business

20:39
Communication Challenges in Pool Service

32:31
Navigating Employee Responsibility and Trust

Transcript

Speaker 3 (00:00)
Welcome everybody to Talking Pools, the Thursday edition with Steve and Wayne. Hope everybody has had a good week. For those of you who are somewhat regular listeners to this podcast, you may not have noticed that I have not been around for a while, for a little over a month now. That is because on November 1st, I had what my wife is calling a cardiac attack, not a heart attack, but

You know how you've seen like in basketball videos where the basketball pair just kind of drops dead on the on the court kind of thing? That's what happened to me. The electrical impulses decided to get real wonky. And apparently I was walking. I don't remember a whole lot from like Tuesday, Tuesday night to Saturday night to Tuesday. But my wife said I came up the stairs and I said, Maggie, I feel did didn't even finish the word dizzy. And I just collapsed and

Apparently the ambulance came, they're doing CPR, they're doing that mechanical CPR thing. They got me to a local hospital where my daughter and my wife work. They had arranged for me to have an airlift.

Speaker 1 (01:05)
EKG, EKG, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:19)
from the hospital that's not too far from us to downtown and really don't remember anything really from just before it happened to Tuesday early afternoon when I finally got out of my little funk. But yeah, so I'm on a whole bunch of meds right now. Can't drive for a little while, not till February, but physically I'm doing great. I'm about 90 to 95 % there. I get tired quickly sometimes if I'm doing a lot of stuff, but

It's nice to be back, Steve, and it's nice to be part of the living, I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:52)
Yeah, I mean, like it was really scary for all of us because I was actually out of the country. I think I was in I was on my way to Turks and Caicos at the time. And it wasn't even Maggie who hit me up. was Connie Sue Controla that she texted me and she was like, Steve question mark. She was like, I just you know, I got your number from Maggie and something happened to Wayne. So if you could please give me a call when you get a chance. And I'm like, what the I was like, you know, I called her right away immediately. And I was like, hey, what's going on? And at that point, you know, that we didn't

We didn't really know too much about what was going on and you were in the hospital and you were unresponsive at that time. So Maggie was obviously, you know, taking care of you. But, you know, all I had heard is that your wife had been doing CPR on you at the house for a half hour. So that was just, just hearing that in itself was like, Whoa, like what's going on? So let's back up a little bit to, you know, back in that, well, let's go back to the house, you know, and what did they say?

Speaker 3 (02:34)
for about a half an hour.

Speaker 1 (02:47)
Obviously, you you said everything got wonky, but is there something like is this something that they said like was gonna happen? So best it happened where it was or this is just totally like out of the blue Okay, so this and this could happen to anybody as far as like it's not it's not something like you're predetermined to have this happen to you Got it, okay cool

Speaker 3 (02:58)
the blue.

So I have no idea. I

know that at some point down the road, I'm going to do some genetic testing with my daughter and my son to see if they have a chance of this happening to them down the road. yeah, this was totally out of the blue. And in fact, Maggie tells me that I died twice.

Once when they took me outside, cause cause we live in a, in a bi-level where you open the door and the stairs split kind of deal. And it was on that landing that I collapsed and where Maggie was doing the CPR. Then when the, then when the Hartford County sheriff's people in the ambulance game, they got me outside and finished up doing the CPR there. I'd coded, I'd died and they got me back somehow. And then in the ambulance down to the local hospital, apparently I went out again. They got me back and I'm here. So.

So I am the walking dead right now. So just call me a zombie. But yeah, it was was kind of freaky and had a lot of support at the two hospitals I was at. can't can't tell how I can't say how happy I was with all the care that I got at both locations. More so at the hospital where my wife and daughter work, because, hey, it's Maggie and Kelsey's dad that's in this room.

Speaker 1 (04:16)
Kind

of deal. Right. Yeah, no, of course. But I mean, it's just it's so crazy because you don't you don't ever really think about the what your spouse chooses as a profession, right? That's that's just what they happen to do when they were a kid or, you know, not a kid. But, know, when you when you think about these things going out of high school and going into college, what Maggie did or what Maggie is, it's she that you don't just become that overnight.

You know what mean? It's not you go to school for that you train for that though You know, this is something that this is your career path for life. So, you know, how lucky are you that you you know, you have magic?

Speaker 3 (04:52)
She

went immediately into nurse mode, wife mode. And apparently when the one sheriff came and he told, know, I can take over CPR, he said, no, you're not. don't know if you know CPR or not, but it's that for the nurse mode. When they got me outside, she said the sheriff kind of slipped an oxygen mask underneath her arms and he said, I can take over now, ma'am. And then she let him she let him finish on me. But yet. So so the result of that is is.

Speaker 1 (04:54)
Right.

Speaker 3 (05:18)
Yeah, your ribs get real bruised. A little bit of pain up here around my armpits. But yeah, for the first couple of days, coughing was interesting. Sneezing was even more dangerous. They gave me a little pillow, a heart-shaped pillow to hug, that kind of thing. But it's gotten better every day. So I'm just thankful for everybody that was able to respond to me and was able to help me, really.

Speaker 1 (05:22)
There you go.

Speaker 3 (05:48)
And I'm glad to be alive. Let's put it like that.

Speaker 1 (05:51)
Yeah, of course. No, I mean, it was such a super scary event and it's one of those things that changes your life. yeah. There's definitely a before and after for this, right? You know what mean? But do you I mean, you know, and this feels kind of corny, but it's you know, do you feel like you have a second lease on life? Do you feel any different today that you felt then or you've just been worried about recovery?

Speaker 3 (06:10)
be honest with you. just been worried about recovery. really haven't. I haven't had that, you know, cathartic moments like, my God, what happened to me? I almost died kind of deal. I'm still in recovery mode and, and, it'll probably hit me in about a month or so I figure, but, yeah, it's, it's an event I hope nobody ever has to go through, but at least I went through it and I survived. And what, what we were told less than less than 20%.

of the people that this thing happens to survive. Yep, less than 20%. So I guess everybody out there, if out there and you have issues with your heart, take care of yourself, listen to your doctors, do what they tell you to do.

Speaker 1 (06:39)
Really?

Yeah, and I mean, they always say that it's it's the weird stuff that happens like if something, you know, if you're not a person that gets out of breath real easily, or you don't ever get dizzy or something like that, where, know, if you do feel something right away, it's better to just go get it checked out than to not get it looked at, especially, you know, in today because there's just there's so many different things that we know and

you with what you're saying like this doesn't happen to everybody nobody and you know people obviously might be predisposed to this but you didn't know this you know there was no there was no way for you to understand that or know it so we were just really glad that you're okay and that that that you're that you're on the up and up and you know that

Speaker 3 (07:31)
You can't get rid of me. Not yet. Not yet.

Speaker 1 (07:33)
that just such a annoying everybody. That's a crazy, crazy story to have happen. And, uh, you know, like I said, I think down the road, you know, once you are fully recovered, you'll be able to look back on it and be like, wow, that was a pretty crazy thing. And, uh, you know, it's awesome to get like a, always just like a second lease on life, right?

Speaker 3 (07:52)
Second lease right? it's a little far good to worry about so and that's neat, but the little thing they install is my side of the bed on the nightstand is a is a Tab looking thing. It's probably the size of a small legal pad and once a day usually in the middle of the night it collects all of the signals that are going on in in my chest and transfers them to the little pad and then it sends it off to whatever cloud it goes to

Speaker 1 (07:58)
Yes, tell us about that.

Speaker 3 (08:18)
So that if they see something that's odd, they can get ahold of me right away. Call me, you know, flash something on the little pad, you know, get them an ER, call your doctor, that kind of deal. I think that hasn't happened yet, but it's there and it's kind of almost like a nightlight. And so that that's, um, I have to be within 65 feet of it at all times. And that's not a problem because my house is only 30 by 27. So, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:30)
Right.

they say? Did they say anything as far as like with moving forward? Is there anything that you that they were like, there's no more of this? And you love to you know, I just and it could be something like no, they say crazy, like no more chocolate, no more, you know what mean? Like, is there anything that they were like, look, like this one thing for what you have, there's no more of this, you know, are you not running wind sprints anymore? You're not running any marathons anymore? Like, like what?

Speaker 3 (09:09)
I had no restrictions except for the driving because they want to give it three months of no episodes because what you don't want me to have is be driving and me having an episode and having an accident. I can kind of understand. It's a bit of a pain schedule wise, but it

Speaker 1 (09:27)
is

what it is. they kind of want you to get right back into it as far as like, they want you to do walking and like, obviously not running, but they want you to start exerting yourself a little bit with it.

Speaker 3 (09:37)
And I'm trying to walk. They have a treadmill. goodness. Three times a day for 10 minutes. And then that'll increase to 15 minutes next week. And then I have to go back for a cardiac stress test, probably sometime in January. They're fun if you've never had one.

Speaker 1 (09:54)
What does that entail?

Speaker 3 (09:56)
Basically tells being on a treadmill and they hook you all up and they just check your heart to see how it's reacting and they do and they incline the treadmill to make you exert yourself and then they bring it back down

Speaker 1 (10:07)
So like rocky rocky for Ivan Drago, right? Yeah. Okay, cool.

Speaker 3 (10:10)
There you go, there you go.

So yeah, and then I, you of course follow up with cardiologists and I know I have to go through cardiac rehab. I'm not quite sure what that entails, I will. I don't know. I'll be honest with you. Don't know. I'll find out early next month when I go see him. But yeah, nothing that there's no, there's no restriction under that I have that would prevent me from doing normal stuff.

Speaker 1 (10:24)
was gonna say, is curry?

Gotcha.

Speaker 3 (10:40)
We can podcast for talking bulls.

Speaker 1 (10:42)
Did you have to miss any- obviously you missed some time with us. Which was stressful for me, not just not- the first couple weeks not knowing what was going on with you.

Speaker 3 (10:45)
Right.

With the guy from the insurance company whose name completely escapes me now.

Speaker 1 (10:55)
Pat.

Yeah, Pat Grignon. So now I mean, we were doing the insurance interludes episode. So there was a few weeks where I was, I was a little bit sick. So I wasn't able to put a show on, but we put like a CPA episode together where we kind of talked about that and stuff. Yeah. And then we've been peppering those in as we, we go along anyway, but those are, those are pretty cool. But as far as were you, did you, were you in the middle of any shows?

or anything so you didn't have to miss any time with that or nobody had to like jump in and take your spot because i know with i know with plays and stuff sometimes it's like where where are we going to find somebody to get

Speaker 3 (11:30)
I had just finished doing one about three weeks earlier and I told everybody I wasn't going to do any more theater until after the wedding at the end of my son's wedding at the end of March.

Speaker 1 (11:41)
Now, back, did you feel anything that was going on at the show that now you were like, maybe that could have been or not at all? nothing. So just really, really out of the blue. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:52)
Yeah.

really totally completely out of the blue. And I've seen some videos on YouTube about it happening to soccer players and basketball players where, know, one minute they're standing in the normal, they're talking to somebody, next minute they're on the ground and they're dead by the time they hit the ground. And it's just, it's that kind of cardiac thing that goes on and it's all electrical impulses. It's not like a traditional heart attack kind of deal.

Speaker 1 (12:18)
Right, and it's not someone that's unhealthy as opposed to healthy where you're saying that these people are all professional athletes that this is happening to. No, no, of course, but again, if it can happen to a professional athlete, it can happen to anybody. know what mean? Like those guys are in the tip-shop shape of your life, in the of their lives. Not that you're not in great shape, but we're all not professional athletes.

Speaker 3 (12:28)
I am not one.

It was also funny that I had been to my cardiologist, different cardiologist, a couple of weeks earlier than when this happened and everything was fine. They didn't need G and all that. Everything was. Yep. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:52)
Really?

This is super scary.

Speaker 3 (12:56)
Weirdness. That's what it was. Weirdness. But I'm back. Yay. So.

Speaker 1 (13:01)
What happened here?

Speaker 3 (13:02)
you

Speaker 1 (14:16)
Hey everybody and welcome back to another episode of the insurance interlude with Steve Sherwood from the talking pools podcast. And as always, our weekly guest is Pat Grignone from California pool association. Pat, thanks so much again for coming on these weekly, these weekly insider insights with the podcast.

people are really liking it. So like I'm getting a lot of great feedback and like, just want to want to say thank you so much for number one, being a sponsor and number two, just coming on every week because every week it's something different that we talk about. And like it really opens even my eyes to the different things that are going on and you're my insurer and it's just sheds a lot of light each week, you know.

Speaker 3 (14:57)
Yep, yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks for having me. I appreciate you giving me some time and love chatting with you. So cool.

Speaker 1 (15:04)
Awesome. we I actually had an incident today where I went to lunch earlier today and I had to wait like a few minutes because there was like a landscaper that had a huge truck and there was the only one entrance into this parking lot and I finally get into the parking lot and I go to back in and this guy just like tears into the parking lot and he's like and I was like holy shit.

And like I pulled down my window and I was like, man, I was like, just let me park, you know, and he was like, I needed to get out of the street. And I was like, don't be a DH, you know, I was like, don't, do that. And like, we, I just was like, wow. I was like, I can't believe I'm just sitting here literally doing nothing. And this guy almost hit me. Like he came within inches of hitting me. So fortunately I wasn't at work and fortunately I didn't have chemicals in the car, but you know,

most of the time, man, I got stuff in the back if I'm going to pools or if I'm going to sites and my guys, they always have stuff in the back and that includes liquid chlorine, muriatic acid, baking soda, sometimes they'll carry pH plus, so sodium carbonate. And then they always have like cyanuric acid and like a few different aldicides and different things on there. So it got me thinking, man, like what happens when you get in an accident and

My guys, carry around, we all carry around SDS sheets on us, which I think is important, but I want you to hit on some of the points of like the things that you need to think about. And then like, has there been an instance where there actually has been a claim or a non-claim and how much does that cost? Like what, you know, you're sitting at a light, you get T-boned and you got to call OSHA. Like, you know, who's it, who's at fault? Do you automatically

comment fall like what what happens with that so paint a little picture for us with safety and being on the road especially since it's a it's the holiday time and it's it's windy snowy and rainy out there

Speaker 3 (17:02)
Yep. Yeah. So the gist with auto and look, the reason why your auto insurance, whether it's commercial or personal, the premiums are so high is because that's by far the most frequent type of claim and accident versus your general liability, your business liability, your work comp.

Sure. by a mile is the highest frequency of claims. as you're carrying chemicals around every, every auto policy that exists, every single one, not 99%, 100 % of them exclude pollution liability. Okay. So, um, unless it's like oil or gas that unless it's pollution from something inside the

Speaker 1 (17:39)
from the car

that already is approved or something like that. So is there a rider you can get for that to add it on and what's that look like?

Speaker 3 (17:49)
Yep, yep, you bet. you I haven't come across an auto policy that you can just add a rider to it, but our general liability, our business liability has a 50,000 hazmat pollution cleanup, you know, limit and rider in there for that. So you normally can't find a solution for that with your auto policy, but you know, with our general liability, at least I know there's plenty of other options out there and they may have some other limits too, but that's what would kick in and that's what would pay the bill for the pollution.

clean up the ocean.

Speaker 1 (18:19)
Got it. And

that that includes like I have insurance from Joe Schmo general insurance and it has nothing to do with you guys because I do do my audio insurance through you guys. But you got you know, every time you come back to me, California Pool Association slash in zone is not the carrier you're going to the carriers for us, which is amazing because you're doing the legwork you guys are doing the hard work and coming back and saying, Hey, these are your three options. This is your best option.

But what you're saying is it doesn't matter what kind of insurance you have for auto, your general liability, if you have it with CPA slash end zone, your cup.

Speaker 3 (18:56)
Yes, that comes, it's cooked into the hazmat pollution coverage. It's such a viable coverage and such a high likelihood that something is going to happen if you're driving around with chemicals in the back of your truck.

Speaker 1 (19:08)
I mean it's not if, it's just, it's when, right?

Speaker 3 (19:11)
Exactly. So it's automatic in our general liability standard general liability policies. If you go down to go to our ABC insurance and they sent they sell you a general liability policy that's not customized like this for the swimming pool industry. It will exclude pollution on that as well. And so and some of them have exclusions for pollution when it's in transit, you know versus when it's on site. So what I would say is

That's a very realistic instance that could happen. I'll tell you a story about one in a sec. But like, you know, you got to talk to your agency. Hey, this is a real life scenario. Like where can I find coverage for pollution cleanup and hazmat? Cause it's you're right. It totally can be the other person's fault. We had a gentleman that was insured. He was an employee, just like you had mentioned. He was an employee of a company out of Downey, Los Angeles, California area.

And he had a truck and he had a bunch of chemicals in the back and he got T-boned going through a green light. you know, was obeying the rules of the road. was going through a green light. Someone ran it T-boned him, flipped the truck over. We ended up paying a full, paying a full $50,000 pollution limit on that because the city of Downey, even though it wasn't his fault. now look, our insurance company would go to his insurance company and.

Speaker 1 (20:29)
You would look

to be getting Yeah, you would be looking for their insurance to be covering some or all of that, obviously.

Speaker 3 (20:36)
but this person didn't have insurance, which is very frequent that...

Speaker 1 (20:39)
Yeah, yeah,

no, dude, there's so many uninsured drivers in LA running around it. That's my biggest fear that like the person that you you know, and then people don't stop and stuff. It gets crazy.

Speaker 3 (20:51)
But that was from the city of Downey. They're like, look, we had to go bring a hazmat team out to clean up all these chemicals. We know it wasn't your fault, but you were the one with chemicals. So here's the bill. it was actually over the $50,000 limit that we had on the policy. But we sent in the insurance policy and said, look, this is what we're willing to do to make it go away. We'll pay full limit at $50,000. They took it and off into the sunset.

Speaker 1 (21:14)
Yeah, at that point they're not gonna cry over 10 grand at that point.

Speaker 3 (21:18)
They're probably, they were probably pretty amazed that there was insurance coverage in place that would actually cover it, because nothing does.

Speaker 1 (21:25)
I mean,

Pat, fuck, man, this is so what I'm hearing here is that if you're covered or you're not covered and that person in, you know, that hits you is covered or not covered, like they're still because you have that insurance, nobody else running around. doesn't matter where you are in the country unless you are an oil man that is running around with, you know, like chemicals in the back or air gas or somebody, a company like that.

they're not gonna, no one's gonna have that type of coverage. you know, the most important part that I'm hearing here is that this is covered with your general liability. So make sure that you have liability insurance. So no matter what happens on the road. So now that was $50,000. What, what type, like, was that a big chemical spill? Was that a small chemical spill? Like, what does that look like? Do you even know? then like what, you know, what happens if you,

What happens if I just went to the distributor? Cause my guys, we don't carry around a full band, a full, a full wagon all week. You know, my guys go on their days off and we pick up 15 cases of chlorine at once. And then he'll divvy it out to, need five today. So, you know, six today, tomorrow, whatever, tomorrow, whatever. But like, what could that bill look like if, you know, they got to shut the street down for, you know, 10 hours or.

something what happens if the chlorine and the acid mix and now you have chlorine gas you know God forbid somebody rolls in with some sulfur and now you got now you got must not World War mustard mustard gas and that's not gonna happen but you got what I'm saying you know you see where I'm going here with this right so what you know just to just surround this up here like what could the worst scenario be

Speaker 3 (23:10)
Well, so in this particular instance, was a normal, it was a Toyota, like an extended cab Toyota Tacoma. So not a big vehicle, not a van, not towing a trailer full of chemicals. It was late morning when this happened. So he still had, you know, a dozen or so pulls to do through the afternoon. But, you know, so he had a normal days of chemical in the back. It wasn't a big spill.

but they're gonna bring out Hazmat, EPA from county, city, state. There's gonna be lot of hands in the cookie jar so it can add up quick. What would have made this really bad is if it got, and this is California, right? You've got the Coastal Commission and all that stuff. If it started to run into a storm drain, right?

Now we got problems because they're going to make that cleanup is going to be, you know, shut the street down for a week while they go and make sure it doesn't get into the ocean. We had a gentleman. was in, I believe it was in like the Northern Nevada, Reno area. He had the other hazmat, another hazmat one, not the only one, but he ended up actually rolling down a hill and chemicals got into the creek down there. really freak accident, but like

You can imagine, you know, depending on the state, the jurisdiction, I mean, you can imagine how significant of a cleanup effort it would be. You start getting this stuff into storm drains and into, you know, running water. So, it can be pretty nasty, man. And, know,

Speaker 1 (24:33)
Unless you're in Texas, they're like, it's just Tuesday. You know what I mean? And I say that because people with like here, if you had a pool that popped or something like that, like in Texas, people have seriously been like, just you could just you just fill it in. And you're like here in LA, like you don't get to fill stuff in. You have to get a crew to come in and pull it out piece by piece. And then you got to backfill it and a bunch of different. Right, right, right, right.

Speaker 3 (24:48)
Yep.

of permits. Also

get separate standalone pollution policies which I've done for a lot of customers as well where they're like look 50 is great it's better than nothing but I am concerned about getting this into a storm drain or into a creek so you know sell me a separate policy that's just for pollution that's a million or two million dollar limit so there's lots of ways that you can address it but standard policies will not have it so you just got to talk to your agent.

Speaker 1 (25:23)
make sure I like I like talking about the extra the extra type of stuff because again, like, you know, you get a policy and you think it covers everything and then all of a sudden you're sitting at a light, like you said, or you go through a green light and you get t boned and then all of sudden, man, it's like you're you're the one that's that's on the hook for the bill. So that's scary. So that's something that you know, we're definitely going to touch on in one of our next episodes, but we're going to cut it off here for you guys. Thank you so much for coming, Pat and being with us every week.

And guys, thank you so much for listening to the Talking Pools podcast. Obviously this insurance is going to cover you for hazmat stuff. So you get $100 off if you mention to California Pool Association about the Talking Pools podcast and our promo code. All right. Their liability insurance runs like around $800 a year. Um, and they're going to give you a hundred dollars off. So like an eighth off. I mean, that's a big, that's a big discount. So, you know, and look,

Even if it's not California Pool Association, reach out to your insurer and make sure that if you're sitting at a light and you get hit that you're going to be covered with something. All right. So guys, thank you so much for being here and we'll see you next week. Thanks, Pat.

Speaker 3 (26:30)
Thanks, Steve.

Speaker 2 (26:30)
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Manufacturing and expansion are front and center. Aquatic Leisure Technologies announced plans to open a fiberglass pool manufacturing facility in Alabama. A move that could impact domestic production capacity, lead times, and regional competition. Pool Pro also highlights water safety initiatives funded through the Pentair Foundation and profiles service companies growing through acquisition and operational scaling.

These are practical, business-driven stories, and you'll find the full details in Pool Pro Magazine. AcuA Magazine delivered one of the most technically consequential stories of the week. Florida's Building Commission has officially adopted an FSPA proposal, incorporating single-wire loop bonding into the 2026 Florida Building Code. This change has direct implications for builders, remodelers,

inspectors, and service professionals working in Florida. AQUAE also covers recent acquisitions in the service sector and highlights National Industry Award recipients. For code changes, compliance guidance, and industry recognition, read the full coverage in AQUAE Magazine. At Pool Magazine, the focus this week is on investment and infrastructure.

Coverage includes private equity investment in a major national pool builder, continued expansion by fast-growing service companies, and manufacturing and warehouse capacity increases that may influence product availability and distribution. These stories offer insight into where capital is flowing and how the competitive landscape is evolving. You can read the full reports in Pool Magazine. And finally, Service Industry News.

Their most recent article, published November 30th, carries weight well beyond its publication date. The issue covers a tragic pool heater carbon monoxide incident that has resulted in fatalities and ongoing legal action. A stark reminder of the liability exposure surrounding improper installation, ventilation, and equipment oversight. The publication also reports on the development of an all-electric aquatic facility in Colorado.

signaling continued movement toward energy efficient design. In addition, Service Industry News highlights professional education through scholarship announcements and provides a roundup of upcoming 2026 pool and spa trade shows. For the full reporting and context, read the article directly in Service Industry News. The takeaway this week is consistent across every publication. The pool industry is tightening.

Code requirements are evolving. Capital is still entering the market. Liability exposure remains real. And education, compliance, and professionalism continue to separate sustainable businesses from those operating on borrowed time. For deeper insight, data, and nuance behind these headlines, read the stories in their entirety in the trade magazines that cover this industry every week.

Speaker 1 (32:31)
Make your voice heard. Join the council for the Model Aquatic Health Code. Lend your expertise to the MAC, science-based guidance from the CDC, and the only all-inclusive national pool code that addresses current aquatic issues. Learn more at cmac.org. That's C-M-A-H-C dot org.

Speaker 3 (32:53)
What you got on the plate there, Steve?

Speaker 1 (32:55)
so I mean, it's, we're coming up on the holiday season and stuff, right? So really I wanted to talk a little bit about, know, like what we do around the holiday season and like having to like change up with like scheduling and different things like that. in last week's show, I talked a little bit about what had happened with, with us. And I just had like a weird situation going on where one of my guys, he like took a test kit from one of my clients and went to go fill it up.

And then he just didn't bring it back. Like he just left it in his truck.

Speaker 3 (33:28)
boy. ⁓

Speaker 1 (33:29)
And

then I got you know, I get back that client calling me and being like, Hey, like, did your guy he wasn't asking me he was like, Hey, your guy took this test kit. And I'm like, I buy all the guys the test kits, like, why would they take the test kit, you know, and it came back that the guy just forgot and he took it and went to go fill it up. And then it turned into, you know, because we're only there every other day. So it turned into he forgot to bring it back the next time. So now it's like almost a week.

And we're sitting on this damn test kit, you know, and then the guy calls me and he's like, what's going on here? Like we're internally fighting here. Fine. Then we finally pull the tapes because it's at a it's a bit of a big resort place. You got a ton of cameras. And it turns out that like we took the test kit. So I had to like sit my guys down and be like, guys, like what the fuck is going like you cannot take a test kit. You can't take anything without asking.

So it just brought me to the point of like thinking about like communication and like how, how we communicate with our, with our clients. And you know, my guys are, they're getting worse in an aspect of like, one of my guys went the other day and he had to go drain a pool and like didn't announce himself before he showed up and like just went and drained the pool. And I called them at the end of the day. Cause I usually try and check in with them and I was like, Hey, like, did you make it to this place today? You know? And he's like, yeah, like I'm already finished. Like I'm at home.

And I'm like, did you tell anyone that you were going there? Like I had told the guy, you know, I told our client like, hey, group texted with you. Like, why don't you just group? Why don't you just, you know, group text back and just be like, hey, I'm on the way and hey, I'm finished. This is, you know, I dropped the pump. This is what it looks like. Cause like now the guy we're draining the water to the street in this guy's neighborhood. And like the guy doesn't even know. And he doesn't live there, which I totally understand. He's one of the fight, you know, palisade fires or whatever people.

Speaker 3 (35:18)
Okay.

Speaker 1 (35:18)
I

mean, it's you know, they we had already drained the pool. So it's the second time that we're draining the pool. So like, it's fine, totally fine to drain it to the street instead of to the p trap or whatever. But, you know, my guys, if you're listening, like, I'm not I'm not your babysitter, in a sense that, you know, and that is the one thing where it's like, all of the clients, like they know that you're supposed to text them when you guys are going into their backyard and

it's what it is. It's just pure laziness from my guys. And it's that they that they don't have this client's number maybe saved in their phone. And like they do that on purpose, because then they'll text me and they'll be like, Hey, like I'm on the way to so and so like, and I'm like, okay, like, fantastic, like you so text them and let them know, you know, I mean, like, I'm in the middle of doing a show, I'm in the middle of a project, I'm in the middle of, you know, a consulting job, whatever it may be. But like, you know, it's turned into something that I'm

don't like anymore. And I'm not sure how to fix it. Because I don't want to text you know, like it's not my job to text this person. I texted them yesterday and told them that you were coming today. Like you're responsible. You guys are free rein to go to the doctor whenever you don't want to go to you go to the eye doctor, you need to take your kid to the doctor. Your kid doesn't feel well, you don't have to go to work today. Like we're really lenient with with that as far as like when when you want to go to this pool, as long as you make it on the day that you can, or you tell them, Hey, I'm not coming today.

before eight o'clock that night, there is no problems. you know, what it comes down to is being, you know, doing that and telling the client, and this is especially true with my commercial clients, like my commercial clients, they run their, you know, the person that we deal with is the director of engineering and the director of engineering has so many hats that he needs to wear at this hotel or homeowners association or whatever it is.

you know, that is where they're at. He doesn't want to worry about when we're coming or you know, if we're coming back or like we need to be on top of telling them like, hey, you know, like we're, we need to go get a part, you know, something's wrong with the heater. We're going to have to go source a part for it. We're going to leave, we're going to go to the distributor, we're going to get the part and I'll, be back in an hour.

You know, and if you're not going to be back in an hour and you know, something else comes up that's closer to the distributor and you're going to stop there first, is it not common courtesy for you to just go and just text the client and say, Hey, you know, I'm not going to make it back there in an hour or two. And I had it happen, you know, a few months ago. And I don't know if we talked about this on the show or not, Wayne, but you know, one of my guys went and said he was going to be back at four or five o'clock and he went to go get a part.

and something came up. And then he called me up four o'clock and was like, Hey, I'm not going to be able to make it there by by four or five o'clock today. Like I'm going to make it back at like eight or 9pm. So I'm like, Okay, cool. I'm like, you're in charge of letting the client know, you know, when you're coming back. And then also when you're finished that we're all good. Like they're down right now. They're waiting for your for us to come back. And this is a commercial client. Like if your commercial client is down,

Like, I don't know what you guys are doing out there. But for us, like we totally stop what we're doing and we go and we do everything we can to get this client back up immediately. Right? Like if not that hotel, though, these people are complaining, they have to issue refunds now, like upper management and executive level people are yelling at the director of engineering because of us, you know, so when shit starts to fall downhill like that, you know, we're the ones at the bottom.

So I'm trying to get my guys to, to, you know, understand and explain that communication and everybody's attitude. So back to this story, he supposed to come back at eight or nine o'clock. I tell the director of engineering, I text him with my guy and I'm like, Hey, we're coming back at eight or nine o'clock. You know, this guy is in charge of letting us know what's going on. And I was in New Jersey at the time. So it was three hours later. And the next morning I wake up to like an angry text message from the director of engineering, like.

Hey, I'm here. This pool is still, you know, still down, which it wasn't still down. My guy got it up last night, but something else happened. But if we had texted the night before and said, Hey, everything is all good. Like we're leaving. Everything is perfect. Then the next morning, his attitude would have been, Hey Steve, guys, something else is wrong. Can we please come check this out? Instead of being like, did you guys come last night? Like what happened to you? Why didn't I hear from you?

Speaker 3 (39:50)
instead of assuming the bed.

Speaker 1 (39:52)
Of course, their whole addict, but now we're on the defend now we're backing up and having to answer these questions. And it's just like, we went there, we did what we were supposed to do, but like, but because we didn't announce ourselves and say, Hey, this is what happened. And this is what we were doing. We look like the assholes, you know? So again, if my guys are listening, like I'm not your babysitter, I'm your boss and everybody in my company, they make a really good living.

you know, is really what it comes down to. like I said, I'm not, I don't have the type of company where I have, you know, it takes, it takes us a really long time to train these guys, you know, like sometimes it takes them upwards of like months to get these guys up to speed, to be able to do the job, you know, in the way that, that they're able to do it. But at the same time, like nobody at the end of the day is, you know, more important than the company and nobody is, you know, everybody at some point is expendable, you know, if, if you're going to keep messing around.

Speaker 3 (40:49)
So how are you looking to improve the situation? Just talk about better communication skills or.

Speaker 1 (40:56)
I guess I mean, what's gonna have to happen is I'm gonna have to babysit and I'm gonna have to be the person I'm gonna have to be the third person on the text. And I asked a lot of my guys with that, like I'm on all of the text messages with all of the clients and it's, it's for my employees protection. Now you can say, I can say, yeah, he did come. He texted. like, you know, and if something's wrong, then they can call me and say, Hey, something's wrong. And if something's wrong and I got to technically explain something to the client or I got to give them pricing or whatever.

I have no problem calling them and saying, Hey, you know, my guy's over there. Now there's a problem. We're going to have to get a part for it. It's going to be whatever the part is, plus an hour of installation or whatever it is, because I'm the one who determines the pricing and all that stuff. So I don't ask my guys to do that. And I don't really need them. Like I can have that on a sidebar with the client. I don't really even need to say the price on the text message with my, with my guys, because a lot of times

They just don't need to know what it is. You know what mean? Like they trust me that they're going to get their piece and you know, they get more than a, all of my guys get more than a regular service guy would get just to do any of this stuff. So they're all making a really good living. And you know, I think it's just a maturity thing in a sense of like not being lazy.

Speaker 3 (42:14)
So

it doesn't turn it as something that it looks like they're taking advantage of you You know a tough line to try to you know stop at but it's possible. I mean, no

Speaker 1 (42:27)
Of

there has been times where I've been like, we're ripping out a job and the guys are like, I'm like, what are you doing with that? I'm like, that's like four check valves there. I'm like, where are those going? And they're like, we were just gonna take them. And I'm like, okay, cool. I'm like, you were just gonna take this client's stuff and just keep it in your stock now? guys use stuff? What are you gonna do with

Do you know what I mean? Like we didn't talk to the client yet about this, you know, and after I talked to the client and say, Hey, do you want any of stuff? Like we could cut this stuff out. And a lot of times we'll be like taking a heater apart. And I'm like, Hey, do you want us to strip this heater for you for parts? Cause now it's got pressure switches. It's got a high limit switch. It's got a low limit switch. It's got a thermal regulator. It's got like five, six, seven safety pieces on it that are worth money. And I'm not saying that I would ever sell that to another client as a, as a new part.

But you know how helpful it is when you have that extra part and you're like, you know what? I know you're having a party this weekend. The distributor is closed, but like I can get this thing to work for you right now. You know, like you okay with that, that I'm going to put in a used part for you. I'm not even going to charge you for it. And then we'll just, when we go get the new part, I'll just take that one back and I just take it back and I just use that in my stock. And guys, if you're listening out there, like that is an amazing way to bridge the gap on a Sunday or on a Saturday, you know, after 12, when the distributor is closed.

that you don't have to do that. You don't have to go to the distributor at that point. You could just get it up and running right then and there. But there's a super thin line of, hey, asking the client and taking something that they don't want anymore and just shoving in the back of your truck like you think it's yours. You know what I mean? At some point, that becomes stealing. And I don't think that the guys take advantage too often, Wayne, but I do think that they do become a little bit lazy at points.

Like I think maybe what might've happened is that my, you know, one of my guys, the guy who took the test kit, I think that maybe he ran out of stuff that day and they have free reign that there's five test kits at this place. Like we keep a test kit at each of the pools. There's a bunch of different bodies of water. So if he ran out of stuff and he needed the zero eight, seven, zero powder that day, like just call me and be like, Hey, like I ran out of powder. Like I booted it over. I've kicked it over before while it's open and it's all over the floor and it's gone.

I'm literally out for the rest of the day. You know, can I just take this today and I'll bring it, you know, we'll refill it and bring it back. But the whole point, Wayne, is that like when this director of engineering and me and him are really cool, we're really open and honest with each other. When he's telling me about this, like he's like, hey, he's like, I'm pretty sure that your guy he's like, I'm not actually pretty sure he's like, I'm 100 % sure that your guy took this in my mind. I'm actually like, I don't care, because it's like, and I don't mean it. Like, I don't care.

It's just like, I'm dealing with so many things that are actually going on with my company that like, I'll just buy you another test kit. Like I bought this other test kit for you guys. Like we're the ones who bought it for you. Like we brought it there, you you paid for it, but you know, and that's the fine line of like, want all of my commercial clients to be set up. So if I, if you called me and you were like, Hey, can you go over there right now? I could take my car. I don't need to go home and get.

like my pole or my test kit or my brush. I want everything set up at this client, you know, just to be able to have sent someone there and they be able to do their job. you know, they're always fully stocked with stuff. And again, like my guys, I know for a fact that he didn't steal it. But at the end of the day, it just looks terrible. You know, and and the the guy

Speaker 3 (46:09)
Okay.

Speaker 1 (46:14)
the truth of it is that perception is sometimes more important than reality. Because it honestly if they think that we stole this something from them, it doesn't matter what really happened. You know? Have you ever had anything like this? And I don't want to know, I don't want to harp too much on this. you know, have you in your in your corporate and

Speaker 3 (46:19)
That's right.

reception is there.

Speaker 1 (46:37)
I know what you're gonna say because you just you're just gonna fucking fire these people. You're just gonna let them go. As you guys have such a short leash with this bull with bullshit like that. Yeah, you just you know, there's so many people that would take your job, you know that you're just kind of like, thanks. See you later. Like it doesn't matter what pretense you took it under. And I want to I want to hear I already know what you're gonna say. I want to hear it. I want my guys to hear it that like when shit like this happens most most all of the time you get camped.

Speaker 3 (47:03)
That's exactly right. And surprisingly, it did not happen as often as you may think in my 32 years at the company, but the blue boxes, but, it mostly happened with people who worked in the warehouse and not upfront in the office area because they had access to a lot more material and things like that. And they were pulling stuff for friends and getting caught and that kind of thing. I can say that probably.

I remember at least four or five situations in which the person was terminated immediately because like you mentioned, there's cameras all over the place and record everything and they just gone by. See you later. But in the manufacturing world, it doesn't have the... What's the word I'm looking for?

Speaker 1 (47:53)
We are-

Speaker 3 (47:54)
Happen

as often it happens, but it doesn't happen often because of the nature of what it is.

It was test kits and in all of the cases and they had a friend who either had a pool and they said, I can get your free test kit, you know, and then tried to five finger discount it kind of deal because we had technically if you wanted to buy a test kit and you were an employee, we would sell it to you at cost. ⁓ but sometimes they just didn't want to pay cost. They just wanted to take it and it was found out and they were terminated or whatnot.

Speaker 1 (48:18)
Sure.

Speaker 3 (48:26)
Yeah, in a manufacturing environment, it's not as common, but it does happen.

Speaker 1 (48:31)
Right. Was there

anybody that got away and like all of a sudden when they found out they were like, whoa, like that was hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of stuff. Like we're going to prosecute you. know what I mean? Like, cause at some point, you know, it's one thing to, it's one thing to take one thing and get terminated for it and get caught immediately. Cause like, you know, you see these girls that like on Tik Tok and stuff and like they'll get

You know, they'll be in Zara or like Ulta Beauty or something. And then, you know, you see the cops out in the parking lot and they have these five bags and there's just shit just coming out of the bag, like just, you know, coming out of their ears.

Speaker 3 (49:10)
Yeah, actually, no, be quite honest with you, I think because of the environment, because you really, it's kind of obvious when you take a test kit or something, unless it's in a bag or what not. But yeah, that's not quite as common as it would be, say, if you worked in a retail store or in your case, you you had a service company and you had access to materials that nobody is kind of watching you all the time kind of deal.

But like you said earlier, you can't babysit.

Speaker 1 (49:41)
But that's part of the problem here that, you know, I do trust my guys fully. I really do. like, sometimes there's just stupidity that goes on where you kind of scratch your head and you're like, but there's things that have happened in the past with this particular employee where I know that sometimes he's forgetful. And I've had to remind him before where I've been like, I told you to bring that today and like shows up.

didn't didn't bring it and we just talked about it last night so like again like I honestly truly do think it was an oversight and if I didn't think it was an oversight then we would be coming to you know maybe termination or something like that

Speaker 3 (50:23)
It's the difference between being forgetful, like you're describing, and intentional. And that's the dividing line is, what was it, forgetful or intentional?

Speaker 1 (50:29)
Right.

Right. But that's, know, part of the pro, you know, and, does forgetful, you know, over time, you know, like when does that change into that? But my whole point, my whole point here is that my team is great. I love the work that they do. Like my employees, they, they've, know, they haven't called out one day in any of the time that they've been there, you know, like they'll

Sure. They've been like, Hey, I got something to do tomorrow. Can, can, can you do my pools? And I'm like, bro, the night before, like, is not to ask the, know, not to start putting out feelers to see if people could do your pools tomorrow. You know, like I get that there's, you know, emergencies and stuff like that, but like, you know, let's, let's be a little bit, let's be a little bit mature, more mature about this, you know, because I, again, as an, as an employee or as an employer, you know, when I talk to my employees,

You know, I always tell them like, if as long as you're going to act like an adult out there, you know, like I'll, I'll treat you like an adult man, you know what I mean? And I will respect you and I'll talk to you with respect. And, I'm like, don't start messing around. You know I mean? If you start messing around and doing childish stuff, then we're going to, we're going to start treating you like a child. But this type of a job, you know, it's, I'm not out there with them. You're not out there with these, with these guys. So how do you stop, you know, all.

How do you prevent all this loss and waste and, you know, being taken advantage of in a sense that, you know, you're, I don't see my employees that often, you know, like I think the last time I saw my employee, I talked to them every day, but like the last time I physically saw them, like it was probably like a month ago, you know, like we meet every once in a while. Like we try to meet once a month in person, but like just logistically in Los Angeles, like I live.

in Long Beach. They live in Englewood like in order for us to get together and they're out and they leave their houses at five in the morning and they get back when the sun comes down. So like when are we supposed to like head over you know when I supposed to hop into their dinner you know with their families and stuff like when they get home from work like they're they're home from work and they're gonna go eat with their families and do their things and that's family time and I don't want the guys to have you know and you shouldn't expect your guys to when they leave you know your job sites.

When they're done for the day, like they're done for the day. And it took me a long time to figure that out. Like I would bother them on Sundays sometimes and I would be like, Hey, like, let's talk about this for the week. And they were like, you know, man, they were like, you should really think about maybe taking, you know, Sunday for yourself. And I was like, you know, and then like people would hit me up on Sundays and I would need to talk to the guys and I would be like, no, you know, like I don't bother the guys on Sundays. Like we can get to this tomorrow and I'll call you first thing after nine AM.

Speaker 3 (53:05)
Right.

Speaker 1 (53:19)
You know, but it's a really just hard line to tow. You know, when you have these guys out there and you're paying for their chemicals and you know, some of them are doing their own pools, which I'm fine with because they're real 1099s. And in order to be a, a legitimate 1099 in California, you have to be, you have to be doing your own pools. And if you're not, you're, I mean, you're in violation of California law.

You know, so it gets, it's a, it's just a weird situation with that. And again, like I said before, I really do trust my guys. It's just the, you know, the more you expand and the bigger your company becomes, you know, the more, the easier it is for a bad apple to be let into your orchard is really what it comes down to. So, you know, you have to vet these people at the beginning and you need to have them buy in to.

no lying. And I tell all of my guys this at the beginning. say, if something breaks, if you get into an accident and it's your fault, like just tell me exactly the facts of what happened. And if you are in the wrong, I will not think twice about blaming you or whatever. Like you could break a hammerhead, you can break whatever.

And as long as you call me and you're like, yo, we broke this, you know, I'm sorry. I don't know how this happened, but it's, it's gone. Right. Then you can totally take that and you can say, we can buy this new thing. You're safe. We can buy you in, know, you can get a new car. You know, this is what we have insurance for, et cetera, et cetera. But as soon as you, as soon as you lie about something, you know, and you make up a story, it's really hard to come back from that. You know,

Speaker 3 (55:09)
You know, I think that's something interesting that let's let's turn it around and go out to our listeners. Have any of you had a similar experience like like Steve was just describing where you've had issues with an employee or an employees as far as I won't say taking stuff, but not being responsible. Maybe that's the best way to put it and how you handled it.

very interested to share that. If you want to send something to TalkingPools at gmail.com, that would be great. Make sure you put it to attention, Steve or myself, and it will snake its way to us. Steve, I think that might be it for the day, at least for me. So gang, as always, thank you. It's good to be back in the world of the living and the ever popular pool world, I guess. Like I told you earlier, you can't get rid of me. I'm still around. My toe is still stuck in the pool water.

Speaker 1 (55:58)
Well, we're super happy to have you back Wayne.

Speaker 3 (56:00)
Thank

you, Steve. Appreciate it. Guys, take care and we will see you next week. Bye bye now.