SWG's Get a Bad Rap!

Introduction: In the latest episode of the Talking Pools podcast, hosts Lee and Shane delve into the complexities of pool maintenance, sharing their personal experiences and troubleshooting tips. This blog post aims to summarize their conversation, providing valuable insights into common challenges faced by pool professionals and enthusiasts alike.

Understanding Public Holidays and Their Impact on Work
Lee and Shane kick off the episode by discussing the significance of public holidays in Australia and New Zealand, specifically Australia Day and Auckland Anniversary Day. While these holidays are opportunities for celebration, they also impact scheduling and workload for pool maintenance professionals. Shane humorously notes the importance of planning around these days, particularly when encountering unexpected challenges in the field.

The Reality of Pump Issues
One of the main topics of discussion revolves around pump priming issues that Shane experienced during a recent pool maintenance job. He describes a scenario where a vacuum connection caused the pump to deprive, leading to a frustrating situation where he couldn't effectively vacuum the pool. Shane emphasizes the importance of understanding the plumbing setup, as certain configurations can lead to complications. He shares a key takeaway: troubleshooting is an essential skill for anyone in the pool maintenance industry.

Troubleshooting Techniques
Shane recounts his experience with a challenging pool that had persistent algae problems. Despite previous treatments, the chlorine residual remained at zero. This led to a process of elimination where Shane and his team had to consider various factors, including the pool’s filtration system and potential dead zones. Lee suggests using chlorine dioxide tablets as an additional measure, highlighting the importance of adapting strategies based on the specific needs of each pool.

Chlorine vs. Saltwater Systems
The conversation shifts to the ongoing debate between chlorine and saltwater systems. Lee points out that both systems have their pros and cons, and the choice often depends on individual preferences and circumstances. They discuss the corrosive nature of salt and how it can impact equipment over time, drawing on their extensive experience with saltwater chlorinators in Australia and New Zealand.

Conclusion: Key Takeaways
The episode concludes with a reminder of the complexities involved in pool maintenance. Lee and Shane emphasize the need for adaptability, problem-solving skills, and a thorough understanding of pool systems. By sharing their experiences and insights, they provide invaluable guidance for those in the industry or anyone looking to maintain their own pool. Remember, whether it’s navigating public holidays, troubleshooting pump issues, or choosing between chlorine and saltwater systems, the key is to stay informed and proactive.

Tags: Pool Maintenance, Troubleshooting, Chlorine, Saltwater Systems, Pool Care, Talking Pools Podcast, Pool Professionals, Australia, New Zealand, Pool Cleaning

BufferZone
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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Good afternoon, good evening, good morning, good night, good whatever time of the day it is, it is time for Mondays Down Under on the Talking Pools Podcast. My name's Lee and I am joined by my New Zealand counterpart, Shane. Hey Shane, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Good thank you, Lee. Thanks for uh having me again.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Having you? You're part of the team. We're the dynamic duo.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Wonder wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

We are across the ditch from each other, but we both shared a public holiday yesterday. It was Australia Day here in Australia, of course. And what day was it in New Zealand?

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Well, more importantly, Auckland anniversary. Surely that surely that weighs Australia Day.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

It's very convenient. Is it always on the 20th?

SPEAKER_00 1:41

I would need to double check that, to be quite honest with you. I don't think it is. I've it I've oh let me double check.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

You just take the public holiday and run with it, don't you?

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Exactly, yes. Yeah. But you know, now we're in um now we're an employer as well. You know, we need to start factoring these holidays in as well and start accounting for them. So yeah, beforehand when you're an if when you are an employee, you know, it's like I'll get an extra day off. We've actually got another public holiday next Friday. So there's one this week, another one next week. So yeah. But yes, Auckland Anniversary Day is a public holiday. Observed Monday, the 26th of January.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Yes. It doesn't say whether it's always on the 26th, so just that it happened to be Monday the 26th.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Is Australia Day the same day?

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Always the 26th.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Is up for debate, can be a bit of a contentious issue. Obviously, it's not a great day for the Aboriginal members of our uh country because it's a day of well, it's a day they were invaded. So they like to call it invasion day. So and of course, that comes with some pain and some animosity. So not a great day for part of our community, but there is a big part of the community that like to celebrate the diversity in our country, the multiculturalism, and be appreciative and grateful for the wonderful country in which we lived.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

I can remember years ago actually watching the documentary It's called Australia. Yeah, it's it was quite a big documentary, and it was very, very interesting how their interpretation of what it was, you know, a thousand years ago, five thousand years ago, and it's actually really interesting. And the amount of native people that they thought inhabited Australia, I won't spoil it, but it actually blew me away. It was like that many they predicted. So yeah, it was a very interesting documentary, that one. But it's a beautiful place, Lee. It is a beautiful place.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

We are very blessed to live here, that's for sure. Very grateful. Yeah. But we're not here to debate Australia's history. So we will jump into some topics for today. But firstly, Shane, how has your week been? Has anything challenged you this week? BufferZone Systems are the pool and spa industry specialists with a complete range of software for pool shops, service companies, and commercial aquatic facilities. With more features and integrations than any other pool industry software, you really need to reach out for a one-on-one demonstration. Contact BufferZone today. So we will jump into some topics for today. But firstly, Shane, how has your week been? Has anything challenged you this week?

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Yeah, today has been a challenging day. And just in Jam room, so I was a little bit late to our podcast this evening. Do apologize for that, but I'm sure this has happened to many guys and girls out on the road where you just cannot get a pump primed. It's like I know what the issue is. Unfortunately, I couldn't repair it there and then. So this particular pool, this was a one-off client. They reached out to us, the pool was green. So a couple of weeks ago, we shocked it and flocked the pool. Everything dropped to the floor. She was saying, you know, she doesn't suspect there's there's any issues with the pool itself. So as soon as we connected up the vacuum gear, about to flock, you know, a good sized pool to waste. The pump deprimes. As soon as you connect the vacuum gear, and it's like you just know straight. If you've been in the industry long enough, you know straight away, yep, there's a such an issue where we don't know yet. You know, there's there could be multiple places where it's actually coming from. But uh, yeah, that was quite a challenging pool to vacuum to waste when the pump primes deprives deprimes deprimes. So it took a lot longer. Um, and we couldn't even vacuum the entire pool. You just end up wasting too much time. Yeah. So today, pressure testing it. Um, this particular setup, I wanted to leave the valves on the suction side and pressure test everything. And the way it's been plumbed up, there's a three-way valve pretty much hard glued to the the union on the front of the pump. It's not the way I like to do it myself, but you t you do tend to see it quite often. And yeah, it started pressure testing, and water just started pissing out from underneath the handle of the other valve. You start inspecting it in the gasket inside the rubber seal, just isn't in good condition. And it's always the same, you know. You start manipulating things, there's a 50-50 chance that you're probably gonna make things worse, and yeah, lo and behold, it just took a very long time to prime up what we got there.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

No, not ideal at all.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

It's a hard one with the valve. You know, you've got to you've got to find out what the issue is. But like you say, you manipulate something and are you gonna make it worse? If you do make it worse, can you fix it while you're there? In your case, obviously, not having the valve isn't helpful, but like what else do you do? It's quite a difficult situation to be in. Obviously, being underload, the the hose being underload or being attached, and and then the pump trying to to draw the water up um and losing the prime in the process because water's heavy. It's actually harder for the pump to draw up that water than it is for it to suck air through a a slight leak. So if um that's easier to draw that water up on a short course just from the skimmer box, you can get away with it. But when you're putting it under that extra load of that extra 10, 15 meters of hose, it's incredible the the difference that that can make to the situation. So yeah, um, always a challenge. That's that's for sure. And yeah, the plumbing of a valve right before a pump without any room for movement is not a pleasant one either. Uh, but the good news is at least the leak wasn't under the ground and you didn't have to go digging or searching.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Well, this is this is the first point. I mean, I need to uh sort out the valve first and then retest all the limes. I didn't have time to test the entire line today. So I've got a sneaky suspicion that this one may have multiple issues because where the lines are, you can you can see them faintly under the deck. Um one of the return points going into the pool, the plumbing's covered in epoxy.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

It's never a good sign.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Oh no, so they've obviously had a leak previously, and rather than fixing it properly, they've just put putty over the actual um PVC itself. So any listeners out there, I do not recommend doing that unless it is a very, very short temporary fix, you know, when you have to do it. But yeah, epoxy and PVC is just not a good combination in itself. We see it quite often in skimmers.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Yes, I was I was actually going to say we had a pool that wasn't leaking, didn't have a leak, but yet the moment we put the vacuum plate on and added a vacuum hose, we were sucking in air and we were losing prime and couldn't work out what was going on. And in the end we realized like process of elimination, if we put the back hose straight into the hole at the bottom of the skimmer, no problem whatsoever. Everything worked fine. Okay. Sometimes you just got to try these tricks along the way, don't you? And we then went, right, the problem's in the actual skimmer box bowl itself, and it's below the vacuum plate line and it's somewhere in that region. And lo and behold, what was happening was when the pump was running and that skimmer box was under more pressure and drawing the water in, trying to draw the water in from the hose, it was actually opening up the crack in the skimmer box and therefore drawing in air. So yeah, it was an interesting situation. But yeah, process of elimination sometimes we've got to work these, work these things out, don't we? That's part of the job. Troubleshooting is actually one thing that I love to put on a job description. You need to be able to think outside the square sometimes. You need to be able to get you get to a brick wall and it's how do I get over it, under it, round it, through it. If you're a type of person that gets to a brick wall and goes, Oh, brick wall, give up, this is not the job for you.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Get out.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Don't have don't apply. And you had one more challenge.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

There was yeah, there was another one that's uh this particular system, they brand themselves as a freshwater system. Technically, they're not really a freshwater system. I mean they're a low salt system. So they have a chlorinating cell? They do, yes. Chlorinating cell, they use copper and silver ions. But yeah, this particular pool, it's funny, it's she's a it was husband and wife, they've split up, they built a new house. She's moved into this house six months ago. They had a pool built, and she just continued using the guys that built the pool. But in the last two months, they the pool's been green all the time. They don't know what's wrong with it, so she's asked us to come in. We've been there for a couple of weeks now, so we treated a green pool, but we just can't seem to hold a chlorine residual. Now, this particular system they do, yeah, they brand themselves as a fresh water where your chlorine residual should only be around 0.5, and then the copper is aiding the chlorine. But yeah, each visit we've arrived, the chlorine's been zero. Try to shock it again. There's been a little bit of algae on the wall where we brushed it, it's always in the same spot as well. So I think there may be a dead zone, a dead area in that particular area of the pool, but which it shouldn't be, it's a brand new pool. Should be designed to, you know, to uh suspect. But yeah, again today, check the chlorine residual zero. So I had to call the manufacturer and just uh the distributor, sorry, just get their opinion on there. We've tweaked a couple of things, we've had the runtime, the runtime now is running for 11 hours, it's going to be running at 100%, which I don't particularly like to do, and I don't see why you should have to do that to tell you the truth. If you've got a variable speed pump, then yes, but this is a single speed. So we'll go back Thursday or Friday morning before the sun comes up and the UV's really out, um, and check to see if there is actually a chlorine residual. But there was something that you mentioned earlier, Lee, which I actually completely forgot about to try. This is why it's good to speak to you, Lee.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Good old C5 tablets, chlorine dioxide. So you said that you've superchlorinated, obviously, to to kill off the green and and get the put back.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

And then you There was a very high level of phosphates as well at the beginning. It was like five five hundred uh parts per billion is quite a high level of phosphates, but they've also been eliminated now.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

You've done an algecide as well.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Unfortunately, this pool does say do not add algicide, but the copper level keeps dropping as well. So we did have to add algicide, get it up to a 0.5.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

It can always go with a non-copper-based algicide, obviously, with with these pools. So there's some really good quality algecides out there that just aren't straight benzo. They've got a very long, very chemically difficult name to say. So I'm not even going to try. Where's Peter when we need him? Like seriously. So, yes, using a good algicide. So my go-to would always be obviously chloride and an algecide. Thinking of chlorine like a bank account. So if we're not adding enough chlorine to kill off all the green and to get into credit, then the pool is going to struggle to maintain it. So ruling that out and making sure that we actually add enough chlorine. But of course, the C5 tablets is fantastic because there might be some inorganics in the water that are actually not being killed off by the chlorine. It's not effective use of chlorine, of course. So getting um C5 in there will kill off a bacteria. There could be anything in there that's chewing up that chlorine or creating the chlorine demand. So C5s are a great one to throw at the pool. And just to basically let's we're throwing everything but the kitchen. Well, actually, now we are throwing the kitchen sink at it. We're throwing everything at it and the kitchen sink when we we've done chlorine algicide and and then chlorine dioxide. So I think that's a probably a good one for you to try just to make sure that you've ruled out every possibility. And of course, the filter media would be also something that I would tend to look at.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

This is a quad cartridge family.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Okay. So quad cartridge, and it's not very old. So you could still have a biofilm in the filter that you might need to look at cleaning out. So taking those cartridges out, giving them a soak, cleaning them off and putting them back in would be probably worth considering as well. But definitely try the chlorine dioxide. Leads in to something that I'm wanted to discuss that I've been seeing around the social media posts again. This old dead horse gets flogged a few times more often than not on social media, and that is the differences or the advantages or disadvantages your preference between chlorine and salt. We're going down that rabbit hole again. So, full disclosure, we are in Australia and New Zealand. We have been using salt water coronators for 60 years in the southern hemisphere.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

That's a very long time to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

A comment on this topic. So let's see what we can say. Firstly, there's the information that salt is corrosive. Yes, salt is corrosive. Salt is also what is in your liquid chlorine. So when you add liquid chlorine to the pool, there is a salt residual that goes with it. And I've actually seen, and I think you two have have shame, where the salt level in a chlorinated, liquid chlorinated pool is or liquid chlorine chlorinated pool to be technically correct. The salt level in that has been just as high as a salt water pool. I had a commercial pool, I had a commercial pool, 400,000 litres. And its salt level was 4,000 parts per million.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Its TDS was about 1,500 higher than that. But I can tell you they weren't going to be in a hurry to actually empty that pool. It also didn't probably help that it's actually right by the ocean. So um corrosion was going to be a problem anyway. But the only thing that was corroding in that pool room was the fittings in the actual equipment room were corroding from the liquid chlorine.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

So from the fumes?

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Yeah, from the fumes of the liquid chlorine. And you you've got a commercial oh, an indoor pool that you mentioned?

SPEAKER_00 18:32

We do, not as big as that one. Was yours, was that one indoor or outdoor? No, outdoor door. It was outdoor. So yeah, we have an indoor pool. It's um 90,000 litres. It's it's literally just a lat pool. Indoor pool, it is heated, they're on liquid chlorine. We tend to have to drain this pool completely on a annual, roughly an annual basis. We drained it just after new year, and yeah, same. The salt level in the pool was just over three and a half thousand. You know, it's it's it's one of those things that are uh it's inevitable if you have a liquid chlorine feeder and it's good, especially an indoor pool as well, where you're not getting very much splash out. There's no fresh rain water. Exactly. Yeah, I mean it does have an auto fill, but it's probably just drip feeding, you know, there is a little bit of evaporation per day, but nowhere near, you know, accounting for making um, or at least keeping a soap level at a decent level through the year. The same this pool is we've had it maybe about three and a half, three, three and a half years. No corrosion, nothing at all. Um, it's got a it's got a uh stainless steel ladder going into the pool that's been there since day one. I think the pool's probably about seven years old. But yeah, the the only issue that we've seen and and had is the corrosion inside the pump shed. So when we took over this job, there wasn't very much ventilation in this pump shed. They did have an extraction fan, but as soon as you walk in, it's got copper fittings in there, you know they're they're bleeding basically. They've got that blue color to them where they're starting to oxidize. Um, they've had gas men in there repairing, and they're like, this is not a good combination having this, you know, liquid chlorine acid and gas in the same room, you know, it's a big no-no, but there's nowhere else to put the chlorine. So what we've done is the drums that they are in, where it's got the service tube going to the um the controller. The the particular lid has got like two prongs on the top, so one of the tubes is going, you know, say to the pool, for instance, and the other tube we're using as a breather. So we've got another tube which is basically going out into the extraction unit as well, and it's pretty much it's not venting a hundred percent of those fumes, but a good majority. And yeah, I mean, we haven't had any issues, touch wood. Don't know tomorrow, luckily. Um, but we haven't had any issues with corrosion at all.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

No, but there's there's the talk about salt water being corrosive, and yes, but it's not like salt like in the ocean.

SPEAKER_03 21:33

We're fixing pools and having a brew. Chemistry, chats, and business yarns for backyards fast to restore the guns, mate. No drama. We'll tell you straight, no worries. Just try to go to the bottom sounds like a dig on the fridge.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

Well, we haven't had any issues with corrosion at all.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

No, but there's there's the talk about salt water being corrosive. And yes, but it's not like salt like in the ocean. The ocean's like 35,000 parts uh yeah, 35,000 parts per million. Yeah. Um what we're putting in pools standardly is sort of three and a half to four and a half parts per million. Gone are the days where salt water chlorinators used to be up around that 8,000 ppm. They're now much lower. And now the low salt market is massive in the salt chlorinator market. So I jumped online to have a look. And the actual so I I did a couple of interesting things. I actually looked to find out at what level does salt water become corrosive? And the answer was actually 2,800 parts per min. Over that it starts to become corrosive, but actually the more common level is between four and five thousand parts per min, is where they say it actually becomes corrosive. So that's when you start to maybe notice a bit of corrosiveness on your tiles or that around the pool, or porous stone around the pool. I actually have to say I have travertine around my pool. My pool has been in for 11 years. The travertine has never been sealed.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

And sorry, just explain what travertine is.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Sorry, travertine. Travertine is a stone, a natural stone, that's used for paving around pools. It's actually really lovely if you haven't seen travertine or walked on travertine. I almost want to say it's soft underfoot. It's actually really comfortable underfoot. It's not soft as in it doesn't move or flex and it's not spongy or anything like that. It is hard. But it's just really comfortable under your feet. It doesn't heat up like a lot of stones do or decks, um, and especially not artificial turf. So uh travertine, yeah, is a beautiful stone to have around your pool.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

And non-slip as well.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

Yes, and non-slip. And we have had in 11 years, we've had no degradation of our paving around our pool. Bearing in mind though, my pool is a low salt pool. We keep ours at about two and a half thousand, between two and two and a half thousand parts per million. It's mineral, so not a lot of salt in there. Still, there is a salt concept to it. I use salt through winter, but not through summer. That's a whole nother topic, and you need to look at our mineral episodes. There are a couple of episodes of those if you want to jump on and have a look in the archives. But um there's a lot of when we got ours 11 years ago, there weren't a lot of low salt or mineral chlorinators around for that matter. And I still have touch wood, the original cells. So there goes that furfee as well about the cost and the length of life of cells. If you maintain your pools well, if you buy good quality equipment, the cells do last. You've just got to make sure that you buy a reputable quality brand. And so, yeah, my salt cell, 11 years old, still running, still producing plenty of chlorine. And yes, I know I probably will have to replace them in the not too distant future, but hell knows. I got value out of my cells and I will happily pay for their replacements. Yes, Nick, I will be ringing you soon for my new cells. Nick already knows because I have spoken to him. But I have looked at what other chlorinators are on the market and what these low salt levels, what levels are they asking for? And we came up with a few, didn't we, Shane?

SPEAKER_00 27:54

We did, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

So um pool controls, the XLS model, has a low salt level, so XLS, so extra low salt, I would assume that that stands for. 900 ppm. The Pool Pro Mineral X Ultra Low Salt. Now I'm not sure who's the actual manufacturer of that, and that is definitely an Australian-only unit. Pool controls I'm pretty sure is available in the US, but the Pool Pro one looks very similar to the Naked system, so it could well be made by those that company. This is the ultra slow salt let model, and it's 1500 parts per meme. Pool Corp, well, we know that's a US label. Here it's sold, it's called the Super Pool Zenith, and it has a salt level between 1200 and 1500. The Halo Pure, which is an Astral brand, uh Astral label, um, fluridros, so I know they're available in the US, that's 1500 parts per min. Brouwer Beefresh, that's an Australian label, though I'm sure Brouwer will be heading into the US market soon if they're not already, uh, 1500 parts per min. And of course, Haywood, the AquaRite, again, Haywood, a US brand, um, 1200 to 1800. And there was one that you mentioned that you've seen in your market chain. You've obviously I know your Halo Pure is one that you see quite a bit.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Yep. Um there's the Enviro Swim, the Naked Systems, they're both uh low-sell systems. I think pretty much every company, I don't think Waterco actually have a low-sale system that I've seen actually. But I would say the majority of companies out there, the manufacturers, from what I've seen, they'll do this standard chlorinator between like three, three and a half thousand parts per million. But they also they do also manufacture a low-salt system as well. Halo pure. The vapure, the vapure, yeah, low so yep. So crystal aquatic systems, they do they do a big range of chlorinators in general.

unknown 30:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

And they've got a large amount of um low-salt systems out there.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Yeah. Waterco do do a low salt unit, but I just can't find what their um salt level would be. Some of them say they're low salt and they're sort of at that three to four thousand mark, and that used to be the old low. Um, but the new low is now sort of around that 1200, 1500, seems to be the most common level. So there goes the corrosion story. Gone. Salt isn't only corrosive at 2,800 parts per million above. So if you go for a low salt chlorinator, you can operate much lower than those levels, reduces your corrosive claims, and solves that problem. And of course, you don't have the ongoing cost of dosing with chlorine. I know they talk about how expensive replacement cells are. 11 years I haven't had to replace mine. That buys a shit ton of chlorine.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

It does, it does. Yeah, think of the money you saved on chlorine lane. I know. I mean, maybe some people are gonna argue, you know, that's the money that you've saved on chlorine to buy yourselves. I don't know, but eleven years is uh is some really good innings. Yeah. And as you said, you know, you've got to buy a quality, um you have to buy a quality piece of equipment. Now there you can see on certain manufacturers the thickness of their plates. Some of the plates I won't, you know, when I started in the industry, the companies though, the company I work for, they were solely a particular brand, won't mention them, but within two to three years, these plates were just eating, corroded so fast. Yeah. That actually put me off this style of chlorinator. But you can see a lot more of the the other brands out there now, you know, they're double the thickness in the plates, and you're going to get a much longer life. I was speaking to you about pool controls earlier. We've got a client about seven, eight years in, he has a pool control. No issue with his cell at all. It gets we need to ask a wash it every now and then, but it's still going strong.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

I think it really comes down to how you look after the water in your swimming pool. Um and keeping it balanced, like keeping the pH and the alkalinity so that the water is not corrosive or eroding the chlorinating cell. It's not damaging it. And keeping some calcium in the let in the pool, but not too much. But an but just enough to keep it balanced. We've done that with our pool. Yeah, sure, there's been times where it's gone out of whack. I'm not perfect. I don't watch my pool every week through winter. Hell, I don't really watch it every week through summer. But we test our pool routinely and we balance it accordingly. And it keeps it beautiful. So um now I just did a quick check. So if you're putting in 250 grams of chlorine into a pool on a daily basis, which is a pro would be a very standard amount. So that's basically a cup of granular chlorine. Or in the case of liquid chlorine, it'd probably be the equivalent of uh maybe about a liter, I would guesstimate. Um, that's just off the top of my head, so if I'm wrong, it might be a liter and a half. But if you then add that up over seven days, that's 1.75 kilos. And I'm sorry for the US um listeners, I am not Peter. I don't keep the calculations calculator on my desk to do the conversion, so I apologize. But 1.7 kilos of chlorine a week. So then you multiply that by let's say we're gonna get about five to six weeks of chlorine out of that. Now that's a bucket of chlorine in 10 kilo bucket every five to six weeks through the the swimming season.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

10 kilo 22 pound.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Yeah, okay, thank you. And that is um I I look, I'd hesitate to guess and say you're looking at easy$100 a bucket um at the moment. And if you're using one of those every five weeks, um let's say five fives are twenty-five, or actually let's go six, six fives are thirty, so that's 30 weeks of um of chlorine, six hundred dollars. That's not even going to see you, that's not even half a year. Like it is just over half a year. Um, and then you might get a little less um frequent dosing over over the winter period. So yeah, let's say you go through eight buckets in a year um at a hundred dollars a bucket, that's eight hundred dollars a year worth of chlorine. There's a new cell, don't that's a new cell in one year. Let's look, we know cells have gone up. Cells have gone up a lot in price. I've everybody keeps telling me, have you seen the new prices on the chlorinating cells? Oh my god. So let's say even if the cell was$1,500. Well, actually, no, well, yeah,$1,500 for a new cell. Two years of chlorine's gonna pay for that, and that cell is gonna last a lot longer than two years, and you haven't had to manually dose it at all because the cell does it for you. So there you go.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Quick maths. We needed to get this off her chest, everybody.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

Chlorinators have a bad breath. And I in the US, I don't know why. Are they trying to justify going to the pool on a weekly basis and super chlorinating at every visit? Is that what it is? Like, I I don't know. We don't need to service our pools that often here. Like, I don't know many people at all that get their pool serviced weekly. Maybe fortnightly. Fortnightly is quite common. Weekly, it's done weekly if nobody does anything to the pool, no backing, no emptying the baskets. But we're certainly not having to add chlorine to it every week to maintain it because the salt water chlorinator does it for you. That was the whole point of the saltwater chlorinator, was so that you didn't have to go out and chuck a jug of chlorine in the pool every day, handle the dangerous good, smell the fumes, and go through that that daily chore. Who wants to have to dose their pool every day? And I certainly don't want to have to smash my pool every week with chlorine just so that by the end of the week it's not green. So maybe I might have a can of worms. Oh, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

But another really good point as well, Leo. I mean, you can manage the cymeric levels.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

There's been so many pools that we've taken on, which are tablet pools. Uh, we had one a couple of months ago, actually. Their chlorine level was um a couple of weeks ago, sorry. Or chloride uh cynauric level, sorry, well, I think it was 198. Wow. Um, so yeah, I mean it wasn't a very big pool, but we literally just drained it, refilled it, you know, a week into the service, and then she's like, my pool hasn't looked as good as this for years. Who are you using? You know, it's like again, again, it comes down to education at the end of the day, but yeah, you can control that cyanoric going.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

Yeah. Or if you're using calcium-based chlorine too. Calhypo. I know a lot of technicians don't want to use Calhypo because it can actually be quite volatile. And if it gets a little bit of water in it, obviously can cause big issues. And so Yeah, you're adding calcium to the pool if you're using Calhypo all the time. You're using adding stabilizer to the pool if you're adding stabilized chlorine. And don't even get me started on the price of trichlor. Like, I the my hundred dollars for a 10 kilo bucket was for a cheap calhypo. If you used stabilized chlorine, the price is astronomical. Whether it's dichlore or trichlor, the price is ridiculous. Are you doing a price search as we speak?

SPEAKER_00 38:46

I'm just having a quick look, actually. Yeah. 10 kilo in New Zealand, just under$150 for 10 kilo, 200 gram pux, basically. Yeah. Quite expensive.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

So I'm just doing a quick search on 10 kilos stabilized core. 10 kilos of dye claw at Pool and Spa warehouse,$198 for 10 kilos. Yep. Damn, that's that's expensive.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

And you can compare to salt, which is on average over here, maybe between like$15,$20 a bag.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

Yep. That's exactly. But one another point is And you only lose salt with dilution. So heavy rain. And as I always said, salty water is actually heavier than your fresh water. Make sure you turn your pool off. You can actually waste that fresh water straight off the top before it's actually had a chance to fully mix through. Obviously, there's always going to be some mixing, but if it hasn't circulated, you can actually waste a bit of that fresh water off the top. I used to share that with my customers. They'd think I was absolutely wonderful for giving them that money-saving idea. Do you think any of them did it? Oh, hope in hell.

SPEAKER_02 40:07

They didn't do it.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

They weren't going off to turn their their pulls off. But geez, they loved me for that information of trying to save them money.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

There you go, Lee. But on another point as well, Lee, I mean, another crucial point in extending the life of that salt cell is making sure that you have a decent salinity level all the way through the year. A lot of clients as well, you know, they neglect their pool over winter. The chlorinate is still running. It may only be on 10%, but it still hasn't worked so much harder when your salt level is a quarter of what it should be. Again, that's that's what can um shorten the life the life of a cell.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

Too high and too low. Both of them can damage the cell. So we really want to make sure that we're giving that chan that chlorinating cell the biggest opportunity to give you the best return on your investment, let's face it. Well, I think that draws us to a close today. So maybe we might have we might have ignited a few conversations there. Maybe I've got a few people yelling at me at the other end of the podcast. You never know. But thank you for listening. We appreciate your time, taking time out of your day to listen to us waffle on. We hope that you've got something beneficial out of it. Remember, if you have any questions, any topic suggestions, maybe you'd like to debate us on a topic, drop us a line at talkingpools at gmail.com and we would love to hear from you. We appreciate your time. We hope you have a great week ahead, and we look forward to joining you joining us again next week on Mondays down under on the Talking Pools podcast. Thanks for listening. Thanks, Shane.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

See you later.