Trade Show Attendance

In this episode of the Talking Pools podcast, hosts Steve and Wayne discuss the ongoing trade show season in the pool industry, the impact of weather on attendance, and the importance of insurance and liability considerations for pool service professionals. They share personal anecdotes and insights about navigating trade shows, the significance of networking, and the challenges of managing liability in pool services, especially concerning diving boards and hillside pools.


Takeaways

Trade shows are crucial for networking and education in the pool industry.
Weather can significantly impact attendance at trade shows, but it's not the only factor.
Insurance coverage is essential for pool service professionals to protect against liability.
Diving boards and slides pose significant risks and require careful management.
It's important to have clients sign hold harmless agreements for risky features.
Trade shows can be expensive, but they offer valuable opportunities for learning and connection.
Understanding the nuances of insurance can save professionals from costly claims.
Networking at trade shows can lead to long-term industry relationships.
The timing of trade shows is often influenced by economic factors and industry schedules.
Attending trade shows requires planning to maximize benefits and minimize costs.

Sound bites

"Trade show season is well underway."
"It's all about the money."
"Insurance claims can be costly."


Chapters

00:00 Trade Show Season Insights
17:06 Navigating Pool Inspections and Liability
24:43 Navigating Legal Risks in Pool Service
25:43 Understanding Liability with Diving Boards and Slides
28:16 Risk Management Strategies for Pool Service Providers
29:28 The Importance of Communication with Clients
29:54 Trade Shows: Opportunities and Challenges
33:55 The Evolution of Trade Show Costs
36:52 Feedback and Interaction at Trade Shows
38:23 Maximizing Value from Trade Show Attendance
41:59 Common Pool Maintenance Challenges
47:58 Conclusion and Listener Engagement

LaMotte Company
LaMotte Company is a leading manufacturer of water quality testing products & pool test kits

California Pool Association
Pool Industry Trade Organization

CMAHC
The Council for the Model Aquatic Health Code promotes health & safety at public swimming pools

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:53

And a happy Thursday to everybody. This is the Talking Pools Podcast, Thursdays with Steve and Wayne. Got a couple things to talk about here today that hopefully has some interest with you. But the big the big one is the trade show season is is well underway here in our industry. The like the international show happens in the fall. We know that. The day that we're recording this episode is actually just before the Atlantic City pool and spa show or whatever they call it now. It's always going to be called Atlantic City to me, is next week. And then Steve, in your neck of the woods in Long Beach, you've got the Western pool coming up. And when is that?

SPEAKER_05 1:30

So that it falls, the last day falls on uh Valentine's Day. And the reason I know this is because I was talking with Jen, my wife, about it. And I was like, Do you want to do something? Cool, because we normally don't, we're not like big celebration people, right? Like we're just because we travel so much, like we kind of feel like uh our lives, we're celebrating our lives all the time. Right. And we've kind of no, we've kind of made it like, hey, like let's be let's be happy and let's let's go travel and that's what we want to do. Um and she was like, well, she's like, that's fine, but she's like, aren't you gonna go out with like uh Rudy or like some of the guys that are there because it's the last day of the show. So the show is Thursday, Friday, Saturday, which is 1213th.

SPEAKER_06 2:06

Mm-hmm. Right, yeah. And it's funny, uh knowing that the Atlantic City show is coming up next week, and uh, I don't know if anybody has seen some of the weather reports, and again, timing is when this particular show comes out, but we're supposed to get hit with a really big, massive winter storm thing. I don't know quite what to call it. It's not your typical nor'easter where it comes up from the south and comes up the coast. This one's like across almost the entire country.

SPEAKER_05 2:33

What I what I thought was so crazy about it, Wayne, is the the the discrepancy in the news reporting of how much snow is gonna come. Most of the time they're very like, okay, we're gonna get between three and six inches, and like maybe you get eight, you know what I mean, or something like that. But it's not like you were like three to six inches and you get four feet.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Right.

SPEAKER_05 2:53

Uh where with this, I saw some models that were saying two to four inches, and I was saying seeing some models that were saying like eighteen to thirty-six inches. Yeah. So that's a big, that's a big discrepancy in the difference.

SPEAKER_06 3:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:06

Um guys look like what it what does it look like for you guys this weekend? Uh, because this is this upcoming weekend. When this when this show comes out, it'll already have happened, but yeah, it will already happen.

SPEAKER_06 3:15

It's supposed to hit us Saturday and last until like late Sunday or very early Monday morning. It really kind of let like you said, it really kind of depends on who you talk to or who you listen to. Uh I tend to take the people on TV with a big grain of salt about yay big. Uh, because you never know. You know, either we're gonna get an inch or 48 feet, you know, one of those two. But but there is a website, a Facebook site rather, that I really, really trust, and it's called Foot's Forecast. That's F-O-O-T-E apostrophe S forecast. Now, they're based here on the East Coast, but they are probably the most reliable and accurate weather predictors uh that I have read about in in a long time, 10 years plus. And I'm not alone in in that uh comment. So I'm gonna do that.

SPEAKER_05 4:04

Do they just do the east? Do they just do the east coast or is it something bad?

SPEAKER_06 4:08

They they concentrate in the mid-Alantic area and New England, but they do cover the whole country if it's significant. Like with this storm, they're covering the whole country. Got it. And what they've kind of been telling us is that we're in a band that could deliver anywhere from eight inches up to a foot. It really kind of depends because the track of the storm moves slightly north, but they're saying it's probably gonna move down again, and if it moves down, it picks up more moisture, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that kind of ties. Why am I telling you this? Well, gang, is that the Atlantic City show starts on Monday the 20, or rather, Tuesday, excuse me, the uh 27th. Um, we're recording this particular episode uh on the on the 22nd uh on Friday. And um all the years, you know, I attended every Atlantic City show from 1992 to 2022. Uh so 20 years or so, really more than that, 30 years of attending that show. And I've been at that show in any every possible weather event you could possibly have, from blizzards, ice storms, water main breaks. I mean, Steve, you start in the industry in that area, so you know exactly what I'm talking about. But but but it's funny, you know, it it's that we were talking about this before we started recording, is that attendance does does weather play into a factor in attendance? And yeah, a little bit, but I can remember when it's been the blizzard conditions out, you know, outside and the snow's coming down really hard or the weather really sucks, this place is still crowded. So I guess it depends on the show and the location, and and you know, granted here in the mid-Atlantic in the northeast, where we're very, very concentrated, so people can get to places relatively quickly, as opposed out in California, where you know you might have a two-hour drive to go to a customer or or something like that. Western Pool, I know, is like just a few blocks away from from where you and Jen live, and the weather, of course, is obviously a little bit different, but out here, you know, trade shows are are not necessarily their success, rather, is not necessarily dependent on weather, as as everybody kind of thinks. I mean, when I went to the Western show, I mean, most of the time it's beautiful weather, absolutely beautiful, very typical California weather. Other times it's been pouring cats and dogs, uh but yet people still show up. And and in fact, we always joke as an exhibitor back then, we want bad weather because bad weather means that the people can't go out and serve as pools, so instead they'll come to the show, which which is a really weird kind of anti- No, but it's the truth because my guys missed the show two years in a row just because I paid for them and they didn't get to come because they were just like, dude, like we have too many pools, like we can't we can't take golf, you know.

SPEAKER_05 6:56

I'm sorry. We're all going this year. My question, though, I guess, is you know, the Monterey show. Like, they wouldn't be bringing you there in February. Because, like, even though it's California, it's still relatively cold and it's not very as beautiful as it would be in October. October is like the like perfect time to have everybody come in and you know do the drive from you know down pebble beach and all that stuff. That's what I did. But why does and I think it's the Northeast Pool and Spa show that they officially call it, right? Because Nespa runs it.

SPEAKER_06 7:30

Yeah, something like beat pool and spasha.

SPEAKER_05 7:33

Why do they continue? And I get that they're not gonna do it in September, October, November, because that's closing season, and I totally get and understand. And as a pool guy from the Northeast who did, you know, pool closings for 10 years there, like I I get that I never would have been available in any time in November. But after you know, after uh Thanksgiving, like things slow down s significantly in between the holidays. So I just don't understand why they don't just maybe push it forward or back a little bit.

SPEAKER_06 8:05

Exactly why it has everything to do with money. Is that it? Everything to do with money, yeah, because like every like every yeah, like even before you came into the industry, back when the show was at the old convention center where they used to have uh the Miss America pageants on the boardwalk, just maybe in between two Trump uh hotels. That's and it was always that last weekend because that was when one they could get it. Okay, two is that was the most economical for them. Now, when they built the new convention center, okay, they were kind of stuck, maybe not quite.

SPEAKER_05 8:35

It would always be on like the tail, like the the because they used to have the Miss America pageant there, right?

SPEAKER_06 8:40

Right.

SPEAKER_05 8:40

I always remember that there would be like shit up about the Miss America pageant because it would always be like around Christmas or like right after the new year, right? Like one of the first events in Atlantic City, and then we would come down like the weekend either prior or after, you know, or whatever it was. But obviously, uh, you know, some an event like that is gonna take precedence because you just have so much global presence with that, where like the Northeast Pool and Spa show, no offense, guys, but we're kind of in a niche business, you know?

SPEAKER_06 9:09

Right, right. And tied into all that, like I said, is money. And so the the room blocks were cheaper in all the hotels. It was less expensive to rent the hall space at that time frame. Because I know that I know the people who ran it for many, many years, they looked at moving it to different times of the year. There was talk about having it right after the international show, which is typically in the fall, but then they couldn't really move forward because you had the the pool industry, well, not pool and the Western pool and spa show was typically sometime in March.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Right.

SPEAKER_06 9:41

Okay. Okay. The pie show, the pool industry expo in Monterey, typically end of September. Typically. Okay. The Orlando pool and spa show or everything under the sun, I think it's called now, was typically around mid-February. So one of the issues was industry-wise, you didn't want to overlap training.

SPEAKER_05 10:01

No time, yeah. You you don't want people to pick between vacation. Do we go to Greece or do we go to Spain? And they're not going to one of both. They're choosing one, so you wouldn't want to be the odd one out.

SPEAKER_06 10:11

Right. And I remember as an exhibitor, it was really a fucking pain in the ass to get booth material from one show to another. And what a lot of times, if if it was back-to-back shows, which happened quite often, there would be some kind of caravan that the company would, the company that handled the show would provide to get all the exhibitor booths and and and whatnot down to another location. In this case, it was always Atlantic City to Orlando or Atlantic City out to Long Beach.

SPEAKER_05 10:41

They also had a show, they also had a show this year that they don't, and correct me if I'm wrong, but they have the Southeast Pool and Spa show, which was in Nashville.

SPEAKER_06 10:49

Right, the Southeast is that a thing?

SPEAKER_05 10:52

Like, do they do that every year there? Or because I don't I don't remember seeing, I don't remember seeing it, but like Nashville is somewhere where I would like I would skip another show to go to Nashville just because I love I love Nashville, man. They have live music every night. And that's what I love about the shows that like I love when a show goes to a place and you're like, Dallas, cool. Never been to Dallas, right? You know, so like so you can actually go and see some parts of the country because I always sit and I've said this before because we talk about, you know, we usually once or twice a year, we talk about trade shows. And I have actually pulled back to going to so many shows. Like I used to make an effort to go to the Northeast Pool and Spa Show every year. And other than seeing some people there that I probably wouldn't want to see, you know, it's expensive for me to go there. I would never I would never bring my team members there. I would go, and I usually went for primarily for the education, right? But you know, now the shows are I'm in in the industry almost 20 years, so a lot of the the classes are kind of the same classes that, and that's by default, you know, because there's there you guys are counting on so many new people coming into the industry that like we need to have a basic chemistry class every year. Like that's a staple, and we know that, but like I'm not taking the base the basic chemistry class. I want like something advanced or you know, more or a little bit different. So I was like seeking out different educational opportunities and they priced me out because I'm a big, I'm a big I used to be a big Atlantic City guy when I was in New Jersey. I'm a big Vegas guy now because Vegas is uh 45 minutes from Long Beach and they do direct from Long Beach to Vegas. I just was in Vegas this past weekend. By the way, the perfect trip to Vegas is 60 hours, not even 72, like 48 is even is even better. Um first night in Vegas, no matter what happens, it's always the best night, and then it just goes downhill from there because you're like up late, like if you like to gamble or if you like to go out or whatever, like it's uh but the food is just you know immaculate. But I much and we only went during the weekend because we were invited to a 70th birthday party. So we went, but the amount that we paid for three nights in that hotel was unreal. Where like normally I'm getting comped rooms because I have Caesar's rewards and I've like built up a little bit of status with them. So anytime from Monday through Thursday, rooms are always free. So if I go to Vegas, it's usually like uh a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, or like uh Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Or I don't like the weekends because if I want if I go to a craps table, I want to play$15 craps. I don't want to play$50 craps. And I was walking around on the floor and I don't know what everyone's complaining about nobody's in Vegas and nobody's coming to Vegas and they're like blaming it on Gen Z and they're like, you know, Gen Z doesn't drink and party anymore, and they'd rather bet on their phones and stuff. It's like, how about you don't have a fucking$75 minimum craps table? That means that if you play the inside and the outside, and I don't know if you guys know how to play craps out there, that means you got to put$150 on each roll. Like, I don't, I don't spend a thousand dollars at once, put a thousand. Most people put a couple hundred bucks down to play craps, so they're pricing me, someone who loves to play craps, and I showed Jen how to play craps, and this is funny because we were in Atlantic City one time and I we had just started dating a few years before, and I got home at 6 30 in the morning, Wayne. And she was like, and I was like, no, like I got a couple thousand dollars here. Like, look, I got chips, I'm flush with chips, you know. And she was like, You were really playing craps till six in the morning. She's like, We've we've always been honest with each other. You can just be honest with me. She's like, you know, and I was like, No, no. And she was like, Show me. So the next night we went to the crap table. Guess what times we stayed up till? Stayed up till like five. And she was just, she was just like, Yeah, you know, she was like, uh, now I see, you know, and we were we were fine, we finally lost our money, but what we felt filled, you know. We were like, this is cool, this was great. She was like, let's play more. And I'm like, babe, I'm like, no, I'm like, we're done, you know. So I I do think that these these shows are starting to get a little bit pricey. And I do understand really from the heart what you know what they're saying with the Atlantic City Pool Show or the pool show. That they have to have at a certain time so they can make block rooms. You know, if you go to these shows, please make sure that you do it in due time and you don't wait until the last minute, because last minute it's gonna be really, really pricey, and you won't be able to get they all the shows do block rooms at these nice hotels that if you do it right away, you can just get into it and it's like a couple hundred bucks a night instead of four or five, six hundred bucks a night. And it in Atlantic City, if you're there over the weekend, man, like and a lot of those classes for like the CPO class and like the Water Shape University classes and stuff, they start on the weekend, you know, like it might start on Sunday and end on Monday, or like start on Sunday and end on Tuesday, or whatever it is. But I have really pulled my pennies back to say, okay, like we're gonna go to the Long Beach show and we're gonna go to the pie show and we're just gonna do the shows on the West Coast this year. Right. And it's totally selfish because I these are becoming a instead and an end or. So, like, do we go to the show or do we go on vacation?

SPEAKER_03 16:07

Wait, hey everyone, and welcome to another episode of the insurance interlude with your host, Steve Sherwood from the Talking Pools Podcast.

SPEAKER_05 17:51

And we have Pat Grignon, vice president over at California Pool Association. So, Pat, thank you so much for joining us. That's you do every week.

SPEAKER_04 17:59

Thanks for having me. Appreciate it, Steve.

SPEAKER_05 18:00

Yeah, so we talked a little bit about selling your route um and like retiring and like if you were looking to cash out and different things like that. But we did talk about something that got my wheels spinning a little bit, and it was that pool that I had gotten rid of on that hillside. And it's in Silver Lake, kind of like Los Files area of Los Angeles, and it's like just to the west of downtown, kind of like where like a really right above Chinatown, but it's very hilly. Like the whole area is like when you go up these side streets, it's like uh super narrow. You would have to like pull over for a car. It's a two-way, but like there's no way two cars could fit. Like you would have to like pull into a space and have a car go by. There's just not a lot of room. But it's like it's an area of LA where like people love living there, you know what I mean? And the housing, the housing market there is just is through the roof, right? So it's just a scary place. Like this pool, you had to go down 70 steps to get to it. So I said to myself, all right, like no more pool, we're not gonna take too many more pools on it on hillsides because there's just it's just a lot of liability on it, right? So I got a pool inspection, and uh guy calls me and he gives me the address, and it's in Los Feliz. And I look it up, and it's literally a it's it's underneath where my old client is. It's on the block below, right? And you know, other than the house being like super skinny and like all the like you I had to walk through the house to get downstairs and stuff, and I just I felt like the house was miniature and I was a giant, you know what I mean? Like I just ever like low sit, like everything was just really like small, you know?

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:34

So I get to the deck and the the pool is like a glorified hot tub, you know. It's like it literally got like a bench down both of the sides. It's like 13 feet by like nine feet or something, like you know, just tiny. So they were concerned about like a crack in the pool. And that was why they had me come out because there was a general inspection, and the general inspector was like, hey, this doesn't look right, you know, you should do a pool inspection. So they had me come out. And I actually don't ever do leak detection, and I didn't do leak detection, but I could tell from a few different reasons that this pool was not leaking. Number one, the it was just like superficial cracks, they were like really thin, and like there was there was dirt inside the cracks, so I could tell that like nothing was actually flowing through. Um and I tested the cyanuric acid and the TDS and the and the calcium hardness, and they were all through the roof. So if it was, if they had a level lore, so if they were constantly putting in water, you know, everything would be at zero, right? Or like or or whatever. The the next thing is if that stuff was low, I would have tested the tap water. And that would have told me like, is the water in the pool basically tap water, you know, for those levels because nobody's touched those. And that would tell me, like, there's there's a red flag and there's a problem, but that's as deep as I'll go with it. My biggest concern, Pat, is like I looked over the deck and there was just sheer drop. So I was like, wow. And he was like, the realtor was like, Oh yeah, he's like, we have a structural person here, an engineer, and she's actually down there now. But he's like, you should go down to the next block and and look at this pool. And I went and I went down and looked at it, and I was just like, oh my god, this is super crazy. Are there some things, are there some things that you should beware of with this? Because like I don't know if I would actually take them on as a client, but is there other stuff other than like it falling down the hill that you would need to worry about?

SPEAKER_04 21:28

Yeah. Well, you know, look, I think ultimately if you were servicing it, you know, then then that if there was some sort of claim. Jesus.

SPEAKER_05 21:35

So I'm showing the back end of the pool right here. That's the deck, and it looks like there's like a castle coming down the hill. Yeah. Jeez.

SPEAKER_04 21:43

Well, yeah, I mean, there's all sorts of stuff that could happen with that. But um, you know, if you're servicing the pool, your general liability is gonna kick in and cover, you know, allegations or whatever the the the claim is. But if you're just inspecting it and you're not actually, you know, sticking a pole in the water, so to speak, then you know, you're gonna need to carry uh EO professional liability. I know we talked about this, you know, forever ago, but um, you know, if you're kind of warrantying someone else's work, then that's more of a professional liability policy. So if you're doing some or any of that or a lot of it, talk to your insurance agent and just make sure you've got the right coverage in place. Because I know you and I talked about that a long time ago. And um, you know, even if you go, you inspect it, you say you got problems here, here, here, and here. You know, certainly you get need to have a hold harmless, you know, that you're just visual inspection, the whole thing. But if that's a big part of your business, then you really should look at getting a separate policy on top of your GL to cover that for errors and emissions.

SPEAKER_05 22:41

Sure. Now, what if I hadn't done the inspection and I just am the person that's putting the pole in the water? What happens then if the thing actually falls down the so you're you're certainly gonna get thrown.

SPEAKER_04 22:53

Into it, um, depending on how long ago it was built, you know, if that builder is even still around or a business anymore. A lot of times you see that. Um, you know, they're they're gonna put you in in a lawsuit if that if that thing, you know, barrels down the hill or or or causes like flooding or you know, there's a landslide, mudslide, something like that that damages property, you're gonna be you're gonna be responsible for it in whoever's got the damage eyes. Now you might be able to get out of it. It's up to up to you know the court or the jury or the lawyers or whatever the case might be. But um, but ultimately, you know, yeah, you you've got some exposure there. It's certainly a consideration you're showing me, showing that picture. It I would factor in a certain dollar amount for kind of potential hazard pay.

SPEAKER_05 23:37

No, I mean, like, so for me with the inspection, the general inspector basically said, Hey, we're not a we don't do structural stuff, you need to get a structural engineer. I came in and said, Hey, I don't do structural stuff, you need a structural engineer. And then they hired a structural, structural person to come out. So because that actually happened, would that release us from liability if that pool did fall? It would be like, well, the person who was the, you know, I mean, the person used to be a gemologist, right? Right. So that that they're the expert on the on the hill stuff, right? On the retaining wall. And they actually said that like they have to, she didn't actually know. She was like, I gotta go to the city and see if uh if they need to pull permits or or sorry, if they did pull permits, number one, and then what those look like, because it's such a big job that like you would have to go to the city and say, This is exactly what we're doing.

SPEAKER_04 24:32

You know, this is uh this is what we did. And in LA, that'd probably take you five years just to get the permitting and pay enough money to be able to actually do the work on a hillside like that. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 24:42

And what she was saying is that there's still hanging deck like over where the concrete is, so like they need to actually move the concrete out more.

SPEAKER_04 24:51

But the scariest thing was a dollar job.

SPEAKER_05 24:53

Yeah, but the scariest thing that she was saying was that uh, you know, on the one side of the house from the garden, she like was in the crawl space and it was like leaking, you know, water and like underground water runoff and stuff. So living on a hillside is no joke, man.

SPEAKER_04 25:10

Yeah, yeah, no, and then just to answer the question, you know, I I would anyone can throw you in the lawsuit if they want to, but ultimately, yeah, I would I would find that hard to believe that you'd be held liable if you recommend that they hire, you know, a geologist or an expert in in a uh a different trade, and then they did, and then they stepped on property. Like I I would feel pretty comfortable if I were you that that happened, and you know, that that'd be a long shot uh grasping that straws to come throw you into something and think they can get any money out of you.

SPEAKER_05 25:40

Right. So you might have to hire a lawyer and you might get, you know, you might get embroiled in it, but you're not gonna be the one that gets roasted.

SPEAKER_04 25:47

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so you'll be cutting you'll be cutting some checks, but not the big check, that's for sure. So again, you know, and you think about that with insurance, and maybe maybe I I need it, maybe I don't. It's all it's not required. You know, lawyers still cost, you know, whatever, two, three, four, five hundred bucks an hour, and they don't work, they don't work for you for one hour, even just to write a letter that gets you out of something. So, you know, that's all part of the cost of an insurance claim as well as the cost of defense. So, you know, there's the even if someone's throwing uh Hail Mary's trying to get you get money out of you, there's there's generally going to be some cost associated with it, even if it's only, you know, a thousand bucks or something, of course.

SPEAKER_05 26:24

So in parting, what are some things that service guys need to think about other than like hillside pools? What are some other ones that are kind of dangerous?

SPEAKER_04 26:36

Yeah, I mean, yeah, anything like that, obviously that stands out. I think really especially what about like diving boards and like slides and stuff? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Like there's there's very, very few policies that exist these days that will actually cover something. And so if if you got a diving board and you're the service company on the on the pool and someone gets injured, like you don't even need to go to court. You should just open up your bank account and say, take it all, right? It's it's it's just a precedent's been set there that you're responsible for it.

SPEAKER_05 27:05

So is there something let's like there's certain clients that I've had and they were like, we're not removing the diving board. So now do I have to make a decision of I'm not gonna service the pool, or is there something that I can do to protect myself and say, hey, we only remove diving boards. We offered to remove your diving board, you declined. You know, here's this certified letter that says, you know, if anything is to happen to anyone related to you or not at this property, you know, while we're servicing the pool, we are not held, we're not gonna be held liable for that.

SPEAKER_04 27:40

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And look, it's it's also just risk tolerance. If there's some you know party with a bunch of other kids and it, you know, like someone gets hurt on there, you know, they they could very well come after you, even with that. But I I'd feel pretty comfortable with that signed and it, you know, say, hey, I've identified this, I've recommended this, you decided not to, I need you to sign this and assign the hold harmless. Then I I would be if I were you, I'd be comfortable with that. I've had a ton of a ton of clients that just they just won't they won't do it, no matter what. Even if the hold harmless, they just as the so it's really risk tolerance for the individual. I would feel comfortable personally with assigned hold harmless, you know, but again, you just it's all bullets in a gun. You never it's never black and white when something bad happens.

SPEAKER_05 28:23

Would an email because sometimes you say to me that emails are are good enough in this situation. Uh you really should go the extra mile and get a certified letter.

SPEAKER_04 28:32

Yeah, I I would with the with any sort of diving board or or slides, just you know, get get something in writing that way. And and via email too.

SPEAKER_05 28:40

There's a ton of pools that I've taken in LA that are like all sorts of weird because like everybody's got a lot of money.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:47

And they're like, let's build like a grotto, you know, like and it's like a spa that like you can enter that like has a waterfall that comes off the top of it, yeah. And it's like a platform up there that you could like dive off of and stuff. Um, so I've had like that before. So it's all kind of weird, you know, every situation is gonna be different. But guys, loud and clear, you're hearing it. If you are servicing pools that have a diving board and some shit happens, like you are gonna be you're gonna be held liable. And uh there's no ifs, ends, or buts about that. So go ahead and you know, talk to that client and just say, hey, you know, like uh my insur and blame it on Pat. Blame it on the insurer. Be like my and feel like my insurer doesn't want me to, you know, insure my my insurer basically wants me to fire you. But we have such a great relationship that I would love to keep doing your pool. But if you want me to keep doing your pool and you're not gonna allow me to remove your diving board, I need you to sign this letter. And it's in good faith just saying that like uh if anything happens, it's it's you're not gonna blame me. That's the word on the diving board. All right, Pat, thanks so much for coming on as always. Uh, guys, if you have any questions for me, uh hit up hit us up at uh talkingpools at gmail.com and always check out California Pool Association and just call them for any questions that you guys have. Like I just called Pat two weeks ago and I was like, hey, I got a friend and he's in a different industry, and uh, can you talk to him real quick? And you know, they weren't able to do anything because they were in a state where like you guys weren't actually there, but you still picked up the phone, you still talked to the guy, and you still basically you know made him feel and he he sent me back. He was like, Hey, he was like, I know they weren't able to help as much as they were wanted to, but you know, thank you so much for you know them getting back to me because he was like, When are they gonna when are they gonna hit me up? In like a week or two. And I was like, bro, they're gonna hit you up today or tomorrow.

SPEAKER_04 30:25

Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_05 30:26

So if you guys have questions, they're there for you right now. So uh, and if you guys hop on for a one-year liability insurance, you'll get one month free. Well, general liability insurance, and you hook up for a year, you'll get about$100 off, right? So it's it's probably like a month free, something like that. So yeah, check them out. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll be talking at you next week. Have a great one, guys. Thanks, dude.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

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SPEAKER_01 32:33

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SPEAKER_05 33:00

It's not that we go to the show and we go on vacation.

SPEAKER_06 33:04

I had the distinct and unique advantage that my expenses were paid for.

SPEAKER_05 33:09

Of course. And that's totally different.

SPEAKER_06 33:11

And fun fact is you were mentioning it before, but I taught the basic water and chemistry class. That's you taught it for like 20 years. From 1993, the year I retired. So what was that, 28 years? Every year, every year I had a guy in that in that class from from you know. But no, they they like me. Anyhow, and also remember that the the organizers, I think generally speaking, from whoever organization was was around at that point, whether it was NSPI or or whatever back in the day, they didn't want trade shows to bump into the pool season. And the pool season, now where you it's kind of sort of year-round-ish. Florida, same way, parts of Texas, same way. But you know, they didn't want any trade shows from April to like the beginning of September. And that's why uh they they they kind of timed them when they did. So you always knew that the first, well, for me, the first show was always the pie show. And then you had the international show, the Atlantic City show, the Florida show, and Western in March. Plus, you mentioned them before, all the other smaller shows, Southeast Pool and Spa Show, South, West Pool and Spa Show, Midwest Pool and Spa Show. So there's like five or six smaller ones that that were kind of thrown in the mix there, too. So I know that at one point there was a discussion about having the international show every other year, as opposed to every year. And I think they're still kind of they've been talking about it for a long, long time and they're getting pushback from exhibitors and and manufacturers and things.

SPEAKER_05 34:48

Nobody showed up is what I heard this year. And that's the problem. If you have a show and you don't have the big three, which is now the big five, you know what I mean? Now there's five or six big players in there, but like if Raypak doesn't show up, if Fluidra doesn't show up, if if you know, if Hayward doesn't show up, like that's a big deal, right? So to not have these big players at the show and then try and tell people come to the show, it's kind of one of those things like you know, like do as I say, not as I do.

SPEAKER_06 35:23

It's almost unimaginable. I remember the Atlantic City show, a 10x10 booth space. So for your typical 10 by 10 area, and this was at the convention center and not the the the new the convention center. At the old convention center, a ten by ten space was five hundred dollars. Not bad, but considering it was ninety-two, still five hundred dollars. Now that same ten by ten space in the um in the um um the new convention center is somewhere in the eighty five hundred to nine thousand dollar range.

SPEAKER_05 35:57

Yeah, it's and of course it it's significant. It gets bigger and b as your footprint gets bigger, it's more and more. And when you walk in and you see Fluidra has this whole square, right, that's like uh an acre.

SPEAKER_06 36:10

Right, right, exactly right. And then COVID hit, so you're talking, you know, March 2020-ish, and all the shows from from that time period into 2021, that's when you saw the big boys not coming, Hayward, you know, all that other stuff, and you were more known that you were not there than when you were there. Does that make sense? You know, like Hayward's not here this year. I wonder what happened, you know, blah blah blah. That's why a lot of the big players realizing that they can, you know, these shows are not not cheap. I think that and I'm I'm gonna give you numbers now here, but they're a little bit old. The the last booth that Taylor had was a 20 by 20 island booth, it's called so we had aisles on all four sides, okay? Between the cost of the booth space, all the utilities, the carpet rental, the the expenses involved with the people.

SPEAKER_05 37:02

They fucking make you buy into they make each person buy internet and it's all the same internet. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 37:09

I think that 20 by 20 island that year cost us something like$85,000.

SPEAKER_05 37:15

Now, but but that's you're adding an employee's that's a that's a senior manager's that's a senior man, that's a senior player that you could have. That's somebody's salary.

SPEAKER_06 37:23

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 37:25

And that's not like some some guy you just hired out of college, like this is a guy that's been with you for you know five, six, seven years, and like you've promoted him a few times, and now he's like a manager. You know, once you're getting into$90,000,$100,000, like now this is like not C level, but you know, management level for sure.

SPEAKER_06 37:45

Right. And the the other thing too, and this is something we really didn't touch base about, but the the the atmosphere of the show really helps define it. As as a manuf as a former manufacturer's person, I loved going to Western Pool. I loved going to Pi. I loved going to the smaller shows because I got to talk to the people who actually used our stuff. Okay. And believe it or not, I listened to to their comments, their suggestions, their complaints, whatnot. And a lot of the products that we came out with that they talked about, we incorporated into our product line. So we were able to do that. Whereas the Atlantic City show and the international show to me is more the international show, it was more I called a suits show where you know deals were made, that kind of deal, uh, the that kind of situation. So the atmosphere really helps define it. And and as far as the manu manufacturers concerned, that's why I liked the smaller shows better because the feedback was immediate and right there from people who know what they're talking about, usually know what they're talking about. Whereas the bigger shows, yeah, you know, oh, my vice president has gone off with to lunch with this other vice president, that kind of thing, and you don't see him for five hours kind of deal. Um but again, you gotta be able to take everything with a big grain of salt. So I guess what we're talking about here is that, you know, are trade shows a good thing? Yes, they can be. Okay. It depends on what you're going to do with the information you get from that show. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 39:16

And if you go, if you go, make it worth, make it worthwhile. Go. And like I said, the manufacturers, I was just talking with Pat about this on one of the insurance interludes, and he was saying that like uh if there's enough interest from people, like he will take a group out to dinner. He will take uh, you know, they're willing to spend their money on on you. They and you know, as uh I've tried to go out with some of like my reps, and I'll try and pay, and they act like they are like no, like they are like I am ex like I if I don't spend money this weekend, I get in trouble. So like please let me run up my bill so I can show them that I was working, is really what it comes down to. And I'm not talking about a hundred dollar dinner, I'm talking about lobsters and steaks and you know, a lot of people, and you look, you're like, I don't want to see what that bill was, you know, kind of kind of like that. But if you go to the show and you don't take classes and you don't walk the show and you don't connect with anybody before the show, it's really hard. Even like my buddies, like my my one friend Dan Sizelove, he's like uh he's big into solar and he's got a lot of like solar partners out here, so he's gonna do like a solar class. And I played college football with him. He's like the one guy that I played college football with, and like I still keep in touch with, and we just so happen to be in the same fucking industry. It's crazy. And he comes out here with his dad every year, who's Dave, and they're both really great guys. And I had to hit him. I just talked to him yesterday, and I had followed up with him for a second time, and I was like, Hey, let me know your schedule because the last two years, I was like, Oh, I'll just go meet Dan and I will just I'll get him to go out to dinner with me. And he's like, bro, I I met him the first day of the show. I was like, dinner, whenever you want. Like, you tell me lunch, dinner, drinks, and he was like, Man, he's like, My schedule is totally he's like, I don't have any time for you. And he wants to see me. You know what I mean? But he had no time for me. Don't think that, like, uh, you know, don't wait until and some of these, some of the, some of the when you talk, what am I trying to say here? One of like the the one of the sessions, some of those sessions sell out.

SPEAKER_06 41:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:17

So if you are like, oh, I'm don't worry, I'm gonna go to that, and then you try and just show up to that, like sometimes you need to pre-register for that, for that show, for that specific session. And you as a person who's taught many, many sessions, and I've been in sessions with you where there was 50 people there, and then I've been in sessions with you where there was 300 people there, and it's standing remote. Yeah, you know, but like those sometimes they just say, you know what, like we're not gonna let any more people in.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:46

So make sure that you're, you know, picking the classes for your guys and that you're making it worthwhile because anytime that I've gone out to dinner and I've done all this, you know, I've done all this stuff and I've I've come out with these connections, and these connections aren't connections that are like, I'm not trying to date them, but like these are people that are in the industry that are like uh, you know, gonna help my job be easier. And I still talk to some of the guys that I met back in the day, you know, they've moved on and like they're with other companies now, and you know, I still keep in touch with them and they still bend over backwards to be helpful. But if you go to these shows and you don't meet anybody and you don't take the classes, you're gonna leave and you're gonna see how much money you spent and you're gonna feel a pit in your stomach because you're gonna feel like you didn't you didn't get what you needed to get out of it. And it's just it's a very fast-paced, quick three days. You're in and out, you know. And I can I can always remember every day when I would get back from the show, I would take my boots off at like uh, you know, 11 p.m. at night, and I would just sit on the bed and I would just be like, what a day, what a day, you know, what a day. Like, yeah, I can't wait to do it tomorrow again. But it's or it's wake up early, it's stay up a little bit later than you normally probably would. But the benefits that you get out of meeting the reps and the manufacturers, because the manufacturers are the people that I lean on the most, because if there's something wrong and you know, I can't take care of it, or my service manager Carlos can't figure it out, when this doesn't happen very often, but it happened five or six times last year where I needed to call the manufacturer and I was like, hey, we don't know what's going on, and we think something's wrong. So can you have somebody come out here and you know look at it for us? And sometimes it was something as simple as like, there's nothing we can do, but we're not giving you a warranty anymore. And it's happened twice because we have two historic properties here in Los Angeles, and they have vent the pools are on the fourth and fifth floor roofs, respectively, and all the equipment's in the basement. So they have to vent the heaters through the whole building, and one of them is like connected to another vent that like is a blower for the something else in the building.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

Right.

SPEAKER_05 43:57

And what was happening is this hot air was going up and the cold air was coming into it and it was causing condensation, and now it would go up and droplets would start to rain on the heater. So, Wayne, we would keep the chemistry, man, every day just perfect, every day perfect, okay? And every time we would open up the heater, it would look like it like we had like the pH was at 6.8 for the last six months, just white and blue all over the heater, copper staining, you know, mineral staining, all the whole nine. And we finally had to say, you know what? I don't know what's going on here. And we had the manufacturer come out and they were like, Look, unless you change the design of this, and we were like, We we can't. Um, and they were like, Let's just go to and this. I told just what I've told this story before. They were like, Okay, let's go to electric heaters then, and they saw how much like Amperage we needed to pull, and it was more than the whole building pulled for five commercial little heaters. So it like wasn't even a viable, wasn't even a viable thing. And I don't know enough about it. And I'm gonna learn a bit more about it at the show because I was talking about it with Dan with Thermal and with heaters, and but California is making some changes soon. In the next couple of years for new construction, they are going to make sure that you don't only have a gas heater. So they're gonna want you to have like a gas heater and then solar or a gas heater and an electric backup or something like that. I was laughing because just the thought of some sort of enforcement in California is almost laughable because Title 20 has been around since 2010. And Title 20 says that you can't have a once your pump goes down, you shouldn't fix it. And I this is how there's a loophole because guys will just say, oh, we retooled the motor and we fixed it and we didn't get a new motor. Here's your single speed back. But there are multiple places in Southern California here where I could go and they do like, you know, new sales and repairs and stuff. And I'm not gonna name them, but they will sell you a single speed motor. The manufacturers don't anymore. But when I first moved here in 2015 and I went to SCP, there was a wall of a hundred motors and all of them were single speed. All these centuries and you know, whatever they were. And I literally came in and I said to the front desk, I was like, How do you guys expect people to follow the law when you are selling them something that is illegal? It's as simple as that. But it's one of those things where you know, when when the pump goes down, you're supposed to use a a variable speed pump. And but then it then it begs the question of like, okay, this pump needs to be on the whole day, but like how long do we need to run it at full speed? You know, some people say six hours, some people will say eight hours, but sometimes that's not enough. If I have a if I have a commercial pool and it's got people in it all the time and they're heating the water, and I run that shit for six hours at full speed, you gotta be like I'm gonna come in every day, and this pool is gonna be cloudy and it's gonna be looking nasty, and it's not gonna be, it's not gonna be clear because it's just not running, it's not running enough. And I equate this to this is like uh, and I can't tell you how many people I've told this and like I've seen a light bulb actually go on in their in their head. One of the most common calls that I get, Wayne, is someone will call me and they'll say, Hey, like uh, we're trying to clear this pool up, and like it's been three days, four days, and like it's just not clearing up the way that it should be. Like, do you have any advice for us? And like I'll ask them questions. And the first question that I ask now is, are you running the are you running the filtration system 24-7? And they're like, No, it's on a it's just on its regular time schedule. And I'm like, Okay, so how long is the regular time schedule? And they're like, Oh, eight hours. Well, that really means eight times you know three gives you 24, right? So in three days, you're only running one full 24 hour period. But if you take that timer pin off or you put it into service mode and you press the filter button and the filter goes on, it'll stay on for three full days, which is 72 straight hours. So which pool is gonna clear up quicker, Wayne? The one that ran for one 24 hours in three days, or the one that ran for three 24 hours in three days? Duh. Oh, it's duh, but it's I can't believe how many people will just leave it on its regular schedule and then just kind of cross their fingers and come back a few days later and be like, well, this isn't gonna work in the way that it's supposed to, you know? So it's kind of uh it's it's not and it's not something that's like intuitive. Like I learned that you know, so on the job. Yeah, of course on the job. Yeah, I mean I did that one time and I came back. Yeah. No, I mean, like I came back and the pool wasn't, and I was like, oh my god, like I can't believe that I didn't that I didn't think about that, you know?

SPEAKER_06 49:04

So Okay, gang. That's it for today. You've heard enough of us talking for a little bit. As always, uh talking pools, we appreciate your comments and suggestions. So compliments are well taken too. So if you want to send something to us, use talkingpools at gmail.com. Talkingpools at gmail.com and write whatever it is you want to write, and it'll get around to one of us if we need to to address something and add something on the air. If we do that, if we mentioned a comment that you made or a question that you had in it on the air, we'll send you a little thank you gift. We appreciate that as always. Steve, have a have a great week. Don't let the weather get us down, I guess, over here and and put your raincoat on when you're out there in your way. Good luck. Yep. Thanks a lot. Appreciate it, and we'll see you next time. Take care. Bye bye.