Ionizers, Chlorine Production, and When Manufacturers Won’t Listen

In this episode of Mondays Down Under, Lee and Shane discuss a frustrating service case involving an ionizer sanitation system with an integrated salt cell that isn’t producing enough chlorine to maintain a residential pool.

The system is rated for pools up to 150,000 liters, yet the pool in question is only 60,000 liters and repeatedly turns green. Despite increasing runtime to 24 hours per day and raising output to nearly 100%, chlorine levels remain extremely low.

After performing a full troubleshooting process—including cleaning the pool, eliminating algae, verifying circulation, and treating potential biofilm with chlorine dioxide (C5)—the issue still persists.

Manufacturer Advice Raises Questions

When Shane contacted the manufacturer’s representative, the recommendation was to run the unit 24 hours a day at 100% output.

This raised several concerns:

• It dramatically increases electricity costs for the client.
• It may shorten cell lifespan.
• It could exceed the unit’s 10,000-hour warranty limit in just over a year.

Even more confusing, the representative suggested adding cyanuric acid, despite the system being marketed as a “freshwater pool system” and the manual specifically advising against adding stabilizer.

When Manuals and Advice Don’t Match

Lee and Shane point out the contradiction between manufacturer marketing, written instructions, and real-world recommendations. Being told to add chemicals that the manual says not to use places technicians in a difficult position if warranty issues arise later.

Lee stresses an important rule for service professionals:
 If a manufacturer instructs you to do something outside their manual, request the instructions in writing to protect yourself.

Not All Ionizers Are the Same

Shane also maintains another pool with a similar ionizer system from a different manufacturer that works perfectly, running 11 hours per day at about 80% output with no stabilizer in the water.

This comparison suggests the issue may not be ionization technology itself, but potentially a problem with the specific unit or controller.

Takeaway for Pool Pros

The discussion highlights an ongoing challenge in the industry: technicians often follow a careful process of elimination, only to be told the problem must be something else.

Sometimes, however, the problem is simply the equipment itself.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:53

They love to point the finger at the pool technician. But maybe it's not the pool technician. And if they treat us like they treated you, no wonder people get their back up and go, Well, I'm not going to sell your bloody products then. I'm asking you for help. I've got a problem with your product. I'm trying to look after it within your lines of requirement. And you're doing nothing to help me, but you're actually being an arse about it. And that just annoys me. Good afternoon, good evening, good morning, good whatever time of the day it is that you're listening to us. It is Mondays down under on the Talk in Pools Podcast. We're so glad that you could join us. My name's Lee, and I'm on the east coast of Australia. And joining me, of course, is my colleague Shane in Auckland, New Zealand. Hey Shane, how are you?

SPEAKER_03 1:45

Yeah, very good, Lee. Thank you for asking. How are you today on this glorious recording on Wednesday today?

SPEAKER_02 1:53

It's actually pretty miserable here at the moment. The weather is pretty ordinary. It's not cold, but it's definitely wet. So good autumn weather, I suppose. Leaves will soon be falling and the grass is definitely growing with all this rain. I hope it's probably doing wonders for pool pools too. I always used to love this weather because of course rain means dilution. Dilution means more chemicals. Rain and bad weather also mean more green pools.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

So yeah. More business. It does. Does. It's like no matter what the weather is, you know, if it's too hot, there's going to be evaporation. If it's too wet, there's going to be overflow. If it's too windy, it's going to be evaporation. You know, the time of year it's going to be autumn. Well, lots of leaves in the pool coming into summer green pool. So there's always a mixture of all different variables going on, which keeps us on our toes.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

Lots of variants that um can bring in troubles, I suppose, for swimming pools or increase the maintenance needs, whether it be pollens in spring or leaf litter in autumn, um, obviously, rain in all seasons, really. So depends on which part of the country you live in, whether it's wet season or dry season.

SPEAKER_03 3:14

And talking about maintenance needs Lee. So yes, we've we've had uh well, we had a new client a couple of months ago. We spoke about it, I think, at that time. Um, basically, they have a um an ionizer. It's pool.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Drama land a brew and have a load two. We're fixing pools and having a brew. Chemistry chats and business yarns from backyards back. To restore the guns, mate, no drama. Greenpool night to a filter gone, but we'll tell you straight, no worries, just try.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Tonight we turn to a tragic story out of New Zealand that is sparking renewed debate over the safety of portable backyard pools. Calls are growing for a nationwide ban on certain portable swimming pools after the drowning of a ten-month-old child, Majura Rapi Davis. The incident occurred when the infant was found unresponsive in a small inflatable pool on the deck of his family's home. Emergency responders attempted to revive the child, but the efforts were unsuccessful. The death has now prompted serious questions about the safety of inexpensive portable pools commonly sold for backyard use. According to reports, an associate coroner reviewing the case is recommending a ban on portable pools between four hundred millimeters and one point two meters in height, arguing that these pools pose a significant drowning risk for young children. The concern centers on a design problem. While toddlers can sometimes climb into these pools, the flexible sides can collapse inward, making it extremely difficult for them to climb back out on their own. The drowning happened in a matter of minutes. Authorities say the child had been playing with other children earlier in the evening. At some point he returned outside unnoticed, and was later discovered face down in the pool. Investigators estimate that only a short period of time had passed before the child was found. Under current New Zealand law, any pool capable of holding more than four hundred millimeters of water must have a physical barrier at least one point two meters high to prevent unsupervised access by young children. That requirement applies to inflatable and temporary pools just as it does to permanent in ground pools. However, officials say many families are unaware that these rules apply to temporary pools as well. Water safety advocates warn that the growing popularity and affordability of portable pools has led to more backyard installations without proper barriers or safety precautions. This tragedy is not an isolated case. Water safety organizations in New Zealand say drownings involving temporary pools have occurred multiple times in recent years, prompting repeated calls from coroners to reconsider whether smaller portable pools should remain widely available for sale. Despite the recommendation from the coroner, government officials say a ban is not currently planned. The country's Minister for Commerce and Consumer Affairs says regulators must balance safety concerns with the public's ability to purchase and use recreational products responsibly. The debate now unfolding in New Zealand reflects a larger global issue for water safety professionals. Portable pools are inexpensive, easy to set up, and extremely popular during summer months, but experts warn they can present serious risks when barriers, supervision, and awareness are missing. For now, safety advocates are urging parents to treat even small backyard pools with the same level of caution as permanent swimming pools, including fencing, constant supervision, and draining the pool when it is not in use. For the full story and ongoing updates, you can read the reporting from the New Zealand Herald. This is your aquatic safety update from the news desk.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

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SPEAKER_03 8:53

You're familiar. I'm sure a lot of the listeners are familiar with the ionized setups.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

This one, though, is one of the ones that has a salt cell on it, doesn't it? So it produces its own trace amount of chlorine.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

Yeah. Even though the sorry correct.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

I was going to say just because there are two types of ionized systems. There are ones that are purely just copper and silver electrodes attached to an electrolysis process connected to electricity, obviously, but doesn't have a salt chlorinating cell. Um that needs to have usually they use something like monopotamus monopotassium hydroperoxy persulfate or monopersulfate in the pool as an oxidizer. But this particular system, which is the alternative to just simple ionizers, is an ionizer with a salt cell. So it makes its own trace amount of chlorine, very, very small amount. They still call them a freshwater system, but there's a few of them around now. There's a few of both, actually.

SPEAKER_03 9:55

There is. Yeah, yeah, there are. They're becoming very popular and a very premium product as well. Parts are extremely expensive from what I've seen. Um and I'm sure it's the same around the world at the moment. The uh salt sales, replacement salt cells have increased in price globally. Excuse me.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

So and the ionized rock, they're copper and silver. Silver, silver has gone up hugely lately. Went up, went down. One of my sons likes to play the metals market, gold and silver. So silver's yeah, gone up hugely, come down a little, but copper's very pricey as well. So not only do you have a an electrode that has precious metals on them, Irhinium, titanium, I think, and then you've got your rods as well that have are copper and silver. So a lot of precious metals there that are costing a lot of money to replace.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

100%, yeah. So you as a client that's purchased it, and as well as a service company, you would hope that you gain the most amount of life. Um, I would as well. I mean, the last thing I'd I hate coming to clients and saying, Oh, you need a new cell. You know, I haven't had to do it for a while, but you know, it's it's something that they don't factor in, they don't tend to factor in, or put in like 10 bucks aside every you know, week, whatever the cost is. It's such a big, big range in the price difference between sales depending on which manufacturer you go to as well. But yeah, long longevity of these things is is extremely important. So um, this particular pool we've we've we've cleaned it up from you know a semi-green pool. The last conversation we had about this a couple of months ago, you recommended adding chlorine dioxide into pool as well. Now the pool's less than a year old, probably doesn't have too much bilefilm building up in the lines, but at least we can use that product just to be on the safe side to clean out any of the biofilm in the plumbing.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

Process of elimination. That's what I was aiming at with that recommendation. C5 or chlorine dioxide is great at removing biofilms, treating algae, chloramines, like it it's a real good one one hit wonder, let's call it. So when you were saying that you're having problems with that pool, I thought, well, if there's something in there that's eating up the chlorine or causing issues for this pool, then that's something to throw at it that can really can really help. But clearly that wasn't it.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

No, no, it still didn't fix the issue. So the the issue that I was having, even though they state that the chlorine residual is fine around 0.5, we were getting there and it was like 0.1, sometimes even lower. It was literally no chlorine in the water. So we've increased the runtime on this unit. Now, this is slightly bigger than your average size pool over here, about 60,000 litre. So what's uh maybe about 18 months? So not massive, brand new pool. It does have very good circulation. So we put the runtime up to pretty much 24 hour, 24 hour run period. Now I wanted to check this a week later. The output was uh 85%, so almost at 100%. Come back a week later, and it had gone up, I think, to 0.2 parts per million. I was kind of expecting it to be a lot higher. The TS, the so level in the pool was fine, what the recommended um the recommendations were. I was just thinking, just something with this pool just doesn't seem right. So um we had a conversation with one of the representatives from this company yesterday, and the information that he was giving me, it didn't really fit comfortably with me. Uh, he asked me to put it on, yeah, a 24-hour run period, but put the output at 100%. So personally, I don't like running my cells at a hundred percent. Uh, have not still don't have a pool, any of our pools which are running an output at a hundred percent. Maximum, maybe sixty-seventy percent. Um, and maybe on a 12-hour period over the peak of the summer. Anyway, yeah, the class is a salt water pool, the salt level in the pool is a lot higher than what this system is, but we're not having any issues with them. And secondly, we we're getting a little bit more of a longevity out of the cell rather than it running 100% for nearly 100% of the day, pretty much. For me, that didn't sit right. Um, because yeah, still to me, it still feels like it's not producing enough chlorine. You mentioned earlier, Lee, that some of the manufacturers out there actually do recommend putin on a 100%, which I never realized.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

Yeah, so it very much depends on the manufacturer. So I would really recommend that you discuss this with the manufacturer if you're c at all concerned. But a couple of the brands that we dealt with, one in particular, they actually recommended to me that we run their their cells at 100%. So with their particular product, you could have cell-producing hours and you could have pump running hours. So you could actually program the chlorinator to either have the chlorinator producing chlorine or not. But the pump would be running regardless. And the beauty of that was, they said, was that you run the cell at 100%. I still didn't like running them at 100. I often ran them at 90, but they said to me the warranty was given on cell hours. So there was actually a clock in the unit that would actually calculate the cell running hours. So regardless of whether that cell runs for at 10%, 50%, or 100%, an hour is an hour. And so they said you're better off to run the cells at 100% and run it for less hours. So let's say you run it for six hours at 100%, or you run it at eight hours at 80%. So you're getting two extra hours off, or should say two less hours off your warranty by running it at six hours at a hundred percent. And so that was recommended by the manufacturer. They said their cells were designed to run at 100%. So we used to then alternate the pump running hour or pump only hours, as we called them, to the cell hours. And so we'd have it producing chlorine one hour, but not the next. Then a cell hour, then nothing, then cell hour, and then so we we did it that way. Or we might do a chunk of hours. So we might have the whole system running for eight hours for circulation with the pump and the filter, of course, but only doing six hours of actual chlorinating. So we might have had three hours at the start, three hours at the end, and two hours in the middle where it wasn't actually producing any chlorines. You can sort of mix it up a bit a bit like that, but it's very frustrating because I know um from our conversation that the unit that you're speaking of is actually sized to do a pool up to 150,000 litres. Was that correct?

SPEAKER_03 17:37

Yeah, yeah. And this pool is only 60,000, and I still feel it I feel it's not keeping up personally. No. So yeah, it was quite surprising to see that in the documentation that is designed to do up to 150,000. Now, this pool doesn't have a cover. Maybe this unit is designed to do pools up to 150,000 with a cover. That would make sense, but it does seem quite a large body of water for this this particular unit.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

But let but let's go back a bit. This is um a manufacturer, or I should say a manufacturer's representative, telling you to increase the output to 100%, run it for 24 hours a day with no regard for the fact that the owner's paying the electricity bill and the fact that that unit should be able to operate easily on maybe six to eight hours a day, or six hours probably now that our season's coming off, as we say. But eight to ten hours in the peak of summer. But 24 hours, that is quite ridiculous. Now, we've been proactive, we have super chlorinated it, we've used an algecide because obviously at one point it was green. We've used the C5 tablets, we have done everything we can to eradicate anything that would be in the water or to clear the debt, as I like to say, because you can be overdrawn on your chlorineat, and we need to get back into credit. So we've done that, we've got back into credit, and the chlorinator should then be able to run from there. But this chlorinator is still not running. So instead of this manufacturer, and this really annoys me, instead of this manufacturer taking responsibility for the fact that their product is not meeting the needs of the client of a pool that is substantially less in volume than what it claims it can do up to, and he's telling you to run it for 24 hours at 100% with taking no responsibility that there might actually be a problem or a fault with this product.

SPEAKER_03 19:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

He's pointing the finger at everything else before he's pointing his finger at the finger at the actual product itself, and that really annoys me.

SPEAKER_03 19:57

Yeah. Yeah. It was uh I was pretty pissed off myself when I was on the phone having a conversation with him. But just going back to the conversation about running it at 100%, I think for the most the majority of chlorinators now, they will show the cell hours that you have a warranty period. On this particular one, it's four years or 10,000 hours. Now, if you're running and it doesn't claim whichever one comes first, but that usually is the case. Either four years or 10,000 hours. If you're running the system at 24 hours a day, it's gonna reach its 10,000 hours in one it's well, the calculation is 1.14 years. So a little over one year, it's reached its 10,000 hours. Now obviously, should not have to run it 24 hours over winter, so give it the benefit of the doubt, maybe two years. But after two years, basically that warranty for the cell is void. Another reason why I don't particularly like running, you know, going back to what you said, Lee. You know, I never realized that where they do say run it at 100%. You know, if you have that ability just to turn a cell on and off, you know, for six hours a day while it's you're on a variable speed system running the pump 24 hours a day, then yeah, that's perfect. This system doesn't have that, unfortunately. So it's another it was another one of those uh points that he made, it was just like doesn't sit right with me.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

No.

SPEAKER_03 21:30

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 21:31

Absolutely, yeah. Actually the same company because we're not going to disclose brands on the podcast, but it is a Shane and I have discussed this, and it is actually the same company. I know of a pool shop that had a similar issue, and when they rang this particular company and they tried to get help for a very similar situation for a unit that wasn't keeping up for a pool that kept going green, and again they had done everything right, they were told to increase the salt level in the pool to 4,000 parts. Now it states in this particular brand manual that the salt level was did you say 700 parts per million, I think.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

Up to seven yeah, up to seven hundred parts of salt.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

So, and I think it's a up to eleven hundred of TDS, is that correct?

SPEAKER_03 22:25

Uh 1,200.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Right. So they were telling a shop to go against what's in their manual. And then you had a similar conversation with the guy that you spoke to, who then informed you that you could put cyanuric acid in it.

SPEAKER_03 22:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

To stabilize it to protect the chlorine residual that they're producing. Now these are supposed to be, as they brand them and as they market them, a fresh water. system. So that means the client hasn't got what they've asked for, what they've purchased. They're being told to put some stabilizer in there. They're being told to put more salt in there. It's steering it away from the product that it is meant to be. So that to me just does not sit well. These companies love to give pool shops and service technicians a bad rap for not supporting their product. But here are two technicians, two businesses that are trying to support the product, asking for help and they're being told the opposite by the manufacturer of what the claim is. So how does that sit well with anybody?

SPEAKER_03 23:32

Yeah. Yep. Looking in their um in their manual do not add cyanuric acid, do not add copper algicides, soda ash, flocculant, no granular chlorine. The initial conversation started when I did ask the uh the rep, are we allowed to shock? Add chlorine to the pool, basically, just to bring it up a little bit. The conversation started off with basically do you not know what goes into swimming pools? It was like this is going to be an interesting conversation, you know? And yeah, it was just just everything that was coming out I was very taken back. I I reached out to a couple of other service guys on the road. One of my friends does have this system. Same setup. They've got an outdoor swimming pool. It's not covered. He was having issues with it initially. He's actually brought his cyanuric level up to 20 and he's running the system 12 hours over summer and I think he said he's running the output about 60 or 70%. And he's he's maintaining that what the manufacturer wants. It was 0.5 chlorine copper reading around 0.3 so it kind of you know it's obviously you don't want to you're gonna you could potentially have a chemical reaction with cyanuric and copper. I don't know what that limit is exactly you know how much cyanuric and how much copper do need to be in the water but I mean do they say that in the manuals not to add cyanuric so that the client just does not add any compared to you can bring it up to 20 which my friend has he doesn't seem to be having any issues why wouldn't they just claim that in the manual just say maximum 20?

SPEAKER_02 25:26

I think their point of not putting cyanuric acid is is twofold one because it's a chemical and they're marketing it as a freshwater system so it's unnecessary. Absolutely it does absolutely it does. And two it's trying to keep a low chlorine residual to keep it as a fresh water system. So if you're actually protecting the chlorine and holding it in there it's then no longer a fresh water system as they like to claim it or a no chlorine or a low chlorine pool because by adding the cyanuric acid you're protecting the chlorine and holding it in. So therefore you're going to have a higher chlorine residual and it then steers away from the purpose of their product. So I think it's probably too prompt. So that would that would be my take on it. Whether there's like yeah I don't think there'd be any other reason that I that I can think of. So obviously too as they say that the cyanuric acid in the water reduces the effectiveness of the chlorine in the water now obviously usually at a much higher level but maybe that's what they're trying to avoid as well that it's slowing the kill rate of the chlorine even though it might be only slight if we did keep a a low chlorine low cyanuric acid level in the pool it would be probably quite a slow or or low click kill rate effect on the chlorine but it's something probably is what they're taking into consideration there.

SPEAKER_03 27:02

Yep another interesting point is one of our other clients they have an ionized pool. This one's a different manufacturer I won't go into who this is they've just moved out of their property they're about to sell it over the summer the pool's in use the cover's on pretty much all the time until they're swimming then they pull the cover over we have very very little issues keeping the water chemistry good on this pool. Since they've moved out the cover needs to be pulled back and it's off completely now the cover the system this system is running from memory I think it it it turns on at eight and off at 7 so 11 hours and it's probably on about 80% output and I'm having no issues with this there's no cyberic in the water on this same setup completely different manufacturer is accordingly and one is having a lot of issues one isn't so to me I still feel that there is an issue with the controller itself. The red did say next time I'm on site can you know give him half an hour. I can do a video call with him and then at least we can go into the back end and check to see what's going on but yeah I can't wait actually because it's just This is the thing we know that one pool can have an issue with one piece of equipment and another pool not have any issues at all.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

So we know that it can be the actual equipment piece that's faulty. Maybe it's the chlorinating cell in this particular unit that is not producing chlorine. So but the thing what frustrates me about that is you go to a representative of that company you lay it all out on the table you're not an idiot you've gone in and you've you've done the process of elimination you're educated you're an experienced service tech you've done the process of elimination you're going to them and you're going hey I'm having a problem and he turns around to you and says don't you know what goes in a swimming pool? Yes I fucking know what goes in a swimming pool. I know what goes in a swimming pool and I also know what should not go in your pool. So I am asking you within your rules that you accuse every pool technician of not actually abiding by and you say that that pool shops hate ionized systems and I'm not saying you as in you Shane but these companies claim that pool shops and service technicians hate their products because it does them out of chemical sales. No, we don't hate them because that does us out of chemical sales. I've had some of these systems be excellent but when you have a problem they love to point the finger at the pool technician. But maybe it's not the pool technician and if they treat us like they treated you, no wonder people get their back up and go, well I'm not going to sell you bloody products then.

SPEAKER_03 29:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

I'm asking you for help. I've got a problem with your product I'm trying to look after it within your lines of requirement and you're doing nothing to help me but you're actually being an arse about it. And that just annoys me.

SPEAKER_03 30:09

Lee feels better now everybody she's getting an average yes. There's a good job you weren't on the phone call as well Lee.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

But I would have told him what for and I actually know who it is that is Shane spoke to but anyway we won't talk about that. I've actually been on the phone with manufacturers that like you ring them and you're wanting help as their warranty agent. You're on site with a piece of equipment you ring their helpline and they say and and you're telling them what the problem is and that you need assistance and they go well we'll have to get a warranty agent out for you. Okay. I am your warranty agent and I'm ringing you for advanced technical help and please put me through to a technician who actually knows what I'm talking about. Or you ring a manufacturer as I did and this is a unit with probes and I would ring them and say I'm having a problem with this particular unit. This is the problem that I'm having and then they'd go have you done this I go okay let me tell you what I've done I've done this I've done that I've done this and I've done that and I've done that and I've done that. Now none of those things have worked so what do you want me to do? And they go send the unit to us so we send the unit to them and then we get it back three weeks later we can't find fault with it's like seriously like really and miraculously for some reason you put it on and it works but they couldn't find fault with it.

SPEAKER_03 31:36

So love 'em or hate them. You love love 'em or hate them. It's it's not a pro I would have to say it's not a product that that we would sell unless it's an indoor swimming pool. This is me personally speaking. I guess anybody out there that will which is having any issues with any form of equipment, you know, as long as you're following your protocol, your steps, that process of elimination. Nothing's working, you know, don't hesitate to reach out to either the supplier, the manufacturer, just get the manufacturer's information online. You know, for the majority they've got a contact email address or a phone number. I've had to do that in the past. Contact them directly. Maybe you'll get free to the service technician, maybe not, but yeah if you've I think if if you do have any suspicions with any product out there, um yeah just be professional about it, follow those steps and then reach out and then maybe we do need to go into the back end of it and find out exactly what's going on. It annoys me because this distributor over here I met with them I think before the summer and I said I I want to know how to get into the back end of these units. There's a lot of them out there now. These sales are going to be coming to the 10,000 hours when we replace them for the most part you need to do that reset of sell hours and they they were just very reluctant to give me any form of that information do you not trust me or is there something going on in the back end that you don't want us to see?

SPEAKER_02 33:17

Maybe they don't know they're only they're a distributor they might not actually know. So maybe and I would say as as I did say to Shane in the case where a manufacturer instructs you to go outside of their warranty requirements of their instruction manual, I would actually ask them to put it in writing and if they won't put it in writing then you put it in writing to them and say just confirming as per our phone conversation today this is what you're asking me to do. So that you've got it documented because then they can't come back at you and say oh you shouldn't have put cyanuric acid in the pool or you shouldn't shouldn't have run the salt level that high. You've got it in writing that's what they instructed you to do. Ask them to confirm it say this has you've been your instructions can you please confirm before I I note that this is different to your warranty paperwork or your instruction manual can you please confirm that this is what you want me to do before I take action and see what they come back with. Because the last thing you want is any fingers pointed in your direction. And of course the good old no I didn't say that when uh shit hit the pan.

SPEAKER_03 34:24

Yeah or I've never seen that before a few times as well yeah I love it when surprising say that is one of my bugbears own your pit.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

That's it. And on that note we'll own our shit and we'll finish for the day. So thank you very much for listening. We hope you've got something out of today's podcast. We always appreciate you spending your time with us and if you have any topics suggestions questions please reach out at talkingpools at gmail.com and Rudy will send your request out to the most applicable podcast show host. Jeez that's a tongue quest this afternoon guys No not quite but anyway we hope you had a great week ahead we thank you very much for listening and we hope to see you next Monday for the next episode of Mondays Down Under on the Talking Pulls podcast. See you guys