When the Part Doesn't Exist: Supply Chains, Service, and Liability in the Pool Industry - Thursday

What happens when a customer's heater fails... and the replacement part simply doesn't exist anywhere in the country?

This week, Steve and Wayne dive into the realities of modern pool service, where solving problems often has less to do with technical skill and more to do with navigating manufacturers, distributors, supply chains, and customer expectations. From chasing down an elusive electric heater control board to discussing how relationships with manufacturer representatives can make—or break—a difficult service call, the conversation offers an honest look at the behind-the-scenes challenges pool professionals face every day.

Later in the episode, Steve is joined by Pat Grignon of the California Pool Association for another Insurance Interlude. Together they tackle an important question that many commercial service companies eventually encounter:

Can another company legally operate under your commercial pool license?

The discussion explores liability, insurance implications, contractor licensing, and why helping another business could expose your own company to significant legal risk if done improperly.

The episode wraps with a candid conversation about distributor relationships, manufacturer voucher programs, pricing pressures, and why customer service—not loyalty programs—ultimately determines where professionals choose to spend their money.

Topics Discussed

•  Why sourcing replacement parts has become increasingly difficult 
•  A real-world case involving a commercial 54 kW electric pool heater 
•  Supply chain challenges affecting manufacturers and distributors 
•  Why maintaining relationships with manufacturer representatives matters 
•  When repairing equipment no longer makes financial sense 
•  Commercial pool licensing requirements in California 
•  Can another company legally use your license? 
•  Insurance and liability considerations when lending credentials 
•  Additional insured requirements and subcontractor risk 
•  Distributor pricing, voucher programs, and customer loyalty 
•  How manufacturer-distributor conflicts affect service companies 
•  Why great customer service is still the industry's greatest competitive advantage 

Key Takeaways

•  Not every equipment failure is a technical problem—sometimes it's a supply chain problem. 
•  Strong relationships with manufacturers and distributors often determine how quickly difficult problems get resolved. 
•  Allowing another company to operate under your license can create significant legal and insurance exposure. 
•  Before entering any licensing or subcontracting arrangement, consult both your insurance professional and legal advisor. 
•  Customers ultimately buy service, responsiveness, and trust—not brand names. 

Connect With Talking Pools

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Email: talkingpools@gmail.com

Your question could be featured on an upcoming episode, and if your topic is used, you might even receive a Talking Pools thank-you gift.

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Where pool professionals talk to pool professionals—bringing together education, chemistry, business, technology, and the real-world challenges facing today's aquatic industry

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Happy Thursday, everybody, and welcome to the Talking Pools podcast with Steve and Wayne. Hope everybody had a really good week. I know Steve and I did. Weather cooperated for once on both sides of the country, I think. Uh, but uh yeah, we we got uh a couple of topics to talk about today. So Steve, why don't you go ahead and start us off?

SPEAKER_07 0:18

Sure. So thanks, Wayne. I always when you start off like that with the happy, I was like, I'm is it my birthday? Happy birthday to you. So anyway, the the weather here has been really, you know, temperate, I would say, but the swell has the swell with the waves has been absolutely insane. I live on this little strip called the peninsula in Long Beach, and it is exactly what it says it is. It's a long strip of land that's got the bay on the inside, the man-made bay on the inside where everybody keeps their boats and all the mariners are and stuff, and then there's the open ocean on the outside. So because there was this cyclone going on, like down in South America, and it was like coming up, you know, into Mexico and stuff, the southwest swell that we've been having is crazy. So the just the waves, we have this boardwalk, and it's the last board wooden boardwalk in California, I think. Okay. I'm gonna say it's definitely in Southern California, but maybe even California, like they all go into composite. And so this one is like real rickety, right? Because it's like they have like uh these front loaders and bulldozers and dump trucks, and it's literally a 24-hour operation for people to keep the sand out in front of our beach. For some reason, they don't know how to dredge. And on the East Coast, this is something in New Jersey where like when I went to college at Monmouth University, I remember being in Deal, New Jersey, and I went back a few years after I had graduated, and I was like, what the fuck is this? I was like, You can go hang out on the beach. Like you used to have to jump off from the rocks into the water to go surfing. Or if it was low tide, there was like a little strip of beach. So out in front of where we live is like a little strip of beach, and if it's high tide, like it actually comes up over the berms that they make because they make this these fake artificial berms. Right now, there's no berms, so I can see out my window, I can see out into the ocean. And there have been people just my dog Daphne has been freaking out because it's just constant beep, beep, beep with all these big trucks, you know, just running back and forth on the actual beach, just trying to take the sand where it washes down to, to you know, bringing it up here. This morning I woke up and there's actually sand and stuff like all in the streets. So we didn't even park our car in the back last night because there was like standing water back there and stuff. So if we ever get like a hurricane or like a real storm up in here, like we're definitely gonna be evacuated and there's gonna be an issue. So to all the people that own their their big houses here, good luck. We live in an apartment and stuff. But anyway, so I I did have a couple topics that I wanted to talk about, and you know, they're just really relevant to like what we're what I do as a business. Um, and and part of the reason, and I'm not tooting my company's horn here by by any means. This is just the facts, and you know, we take really good care of our clients. And part of the reason why a lot of our clients stay with us is because we, when something happens and you need something, like we stop doing everything else that we need to, and we we make it happen for you. And I told you that I have some clients that are in New Jersey, or I have a client in New Jersey, and you know, they're pretty big client. And my partner there, like calling my partner, my subcontractor there, he's the one that does the app.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

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SPEAKER_00 6:17

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SPEAKER_02 6:43

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SPEAKER_07 7:31

He's the one that does the CPO visits and you know the you know that stuff. And then we have another company where if we needed to like install something or fix something, like we would have to have them come out and do it, right? They're a pool company that's in the local area. So it's a it's a city slash school system, and they are in these historic buildings. So they're not allowed to have regular heaters, like a gas heater. So they can either do heat pumps, which weren't really a thing. I mean, they were a thing, but not you know, five, ten years ago when these things were put in. And they went to electric heaters. So they used to use like the Coates electric heaters, which was like the most popular one, and and then you know, Raypak also makes these electric heaters, the ET3s or the E3Ts or whatever they're called, right? And they make a bunch of different kinds. So each size has like different size rods in them and stuff. And I remember like one time the elements went out, the rods, a couple of them went out, and we had to like get new ones, and they changed them out for us. And they're you know, Raypak, my my rep John Maloney, he's great. He bends over backwards for me and it really helps me out. So get a call last week on Thursday, you know, today's Monday, and uh show's coming out obviously on Thursdays, but I get a call from my client and he's like, hey, it's shooting off all these error codes. I was like, okay, cool. Let me, I was like, I don't really know that heater that intimately, so let me call my guys and let me figure out what's going on. So we we kind of narrow it down to we think it's the PCB board, which is like basically the display element, which shows you 89 degrees or whatever. And they they do always keep this pool because it's a swim school, they run a swim school there, so there's babies in the water and stuff. So they are always keeping it at 88 or 89 degrees. So this thing is on, you know, quite frequently. So I start like, I'm like, okay, cool, let me find a PCB board from you, no matter where it is. Like, is this cheap overnight? You know what I mean? Even if we find it here in California, and I can't find it in California, and for some reason, pool core, their, you know, and heritage, they don't allow you, they only allow you to see around your local area. So if I was looking for a part, they would be like, you know, show me Bakersfield, they would show me Laguna Beach, they would show me all like within a hundred mile radius of like where I live, but they're not showing me what they have in Texas, they're not showing me what they have in Florida, and they're definitely not showing me what they have in New Jersey. So I had to call one of the branches in New Jersey, and I was like, hey, looking for this PCB board, I know the fucking number by heart now. It is 100-10,000 three two six. Okay. I found 345s, I found 348s, I found ones that have a bunch of different numbers. Can't find this fucking part anyway. So I've exhausted my, I even called like local distributors in the area. So now I've spent like three, four hours on the phone trying like on the internet, trying to source this part and stuff, and I I I just seems to not exist. It also seems like it's so new that people don't have it in their system and it's not in the book yet. Like it's in the book, but the new number that they have for it doesn't come up. So I call my rep and I'm like, hey, I'm like, what what is going on with this? And he's like, okay, he's like, I have a company here in you know Burbank. He's like, I'm gonna, you know, I'll have you reach out to them, and they we they stock all of our parts. So we'll just we'll order it and we'll have them overnight for you. And I'm like, oh my god, this is great, right? So call the guy, doesn't answer. Call the guy again three hours later, and this is on Friday, right? So I call him again three hours later, and he picks up, he's like, Hey Steve, he's like, I got your message from before. He's like, Oh, I'm looking for it, but I need a few hours. I'm like, okay, perfect. So he called, he texts me back at four o'clock local time, and he's like, hey, he's like, that part doesn't exist in any of the distributors in all of the country. And I was like, okay. So he's like, but he's like, I can order it for you, you know, it'll be like a five-day lead time or whatever. So I write back within 20 minutes. I was in the middle of a meeting. I wrote, I like saw it, I wrote him back as soon as I saw it. I was like, let's order it. You know, he hit me at 355, I hit him at 420, and it's I'm like, let's order it, you know, let's do it. Like, go ahead and get the process started because John said that I needed to get a PO from you so he can get that working on Monday. So now it's Monday, it's 10 15 in the morning. I hit the guy up at 9, and I'm like, hey, just following up with my text on Friday, like about that PO. So luckily, we one of the guys who's my subcontractors there, he had taken one of the old heaters because we had something happen with the heater and we had to put in a new one because there were so many elements that were messed up or something. So we wound up getting a new heater for it and you know, installing that new heater. And I said, I was like, why don't you just hold on to that old heater just in case we need parts from it later on or something, right? And he can't, and this was two years ago. So he's been sitting on this heater for two years. So he actually lives about an hour away from my where my client's place is at. So my client went and had one of his kids go, and that's what they're doing right now. They're on their way to go pick up this heater, this old heater that has this PCB board on. So my issue though was that I called, you know, John, my rep, and I'm just gonna call a spade a spade. Like most of the time, they're fucking amazing. Like they had they there, he's like literally like, I got you, like, you know, I'm sending this to you, no worries, no issues, and we have it the next day, and it's good. And I was like, Look, how can I, in good conscience, use this heater that you as a company can't, as a manufacturer, can't fucking source parts for. Right? So he was like, you know, that's not really the he was like, it's the he's like, the problem isn't really that. He was like, it's the problem is like, is really distribution because distribution doesn't want to hold this stuff. And I also like in kite boarding, Jen and I are pro-kite surfers, right? So we we ride for North, North Kite, North Action Sports, which is part of North Kiteboarding. And I have seen in the last few years, like they were holding stock of stuff for like a few seasons. Now they don't do that shit anymore. They're they're literally like if I don't order something right away, they'll be like, oh, it's back ordered, and then it's back ordered for like six months. Like I ordered one of my surfboards in September of last year, and I just got it last month. So it took about 10 months to get it. Like, and I'm on I'm a team rider for them. Like, you know, I'm one of them. Obviously, I don't get the stuff first because they send to you know all the the websites and all the people that are, you know, selling retail and stuff first, which I assume is what all the you know, Hayward, Raypack, Jandy, like they're gonna sell to you know, some of those websites first that sell all their stuff retail, right? They're gonna sell to Leslie's first before they sell to you know me, Joe Schmo pool company, you know, directly. But my whole point about this heater is this heater is odd. It's a 54 kilowatt, which is really, really big as far as electric heaters go. It's the biggest that they make for that size, and it's also high voltage, right? So it's 440 plus. So really easy to source the low voltage 110 220 ones, but getting your hands on this 440 is just it's almost impossible. But my point is I was like, what if my guy goes and picks up this PCB board and it's not just the PCB board, it's like also something else, or also this part, or also that part. I'm like, then we're fucked.

SPEAKER_03 14:35

Right.

SPEAKER_07 14:35

So I was like, if this part doesn't work, like we're gonna have to get a new, we're gonna have to buy a new heater. So now I'm gonna have to source a new heater because I can't get parts for it. And like that seems kind of absurd, and like it's it's something that I like I don't run into too often where I like actually just can't find the part. I've I've had it happen where the part is now obsolete and there's like a new number for it, or I've had it that like that part doesn't exist anymore, so like we need to move to a new product. But I've never had that like the manufacturer, you know, would have to make one to order because they don't stock any of them. I've never had that instance happen before. So I'm just interested to see how that kind of plays out. And look, like I'm quick to just say, hey, like if that doesn't work, like let's just get a new heater. Like, I'm fine buying a new heater, I have no problem with that. But uh it's more the time that I've because now I've put in like five plus hours looking for this part and calling just distribution just to find out that like there are no distributors in the whole country that stock this part, you know, which is just kind of kind of insane. So let me push the ball back over to you with that. Have you ever had something like this happen where you know one of your suppliers didn't have this because it didn't come in from Pakistan or India or China or wherever it's manufactured, Mexico, wherever it's manufactured from, or in the USA? I mean, you know, if we we manufacture shit too, it's just a lot more expensive. So is there anything that held you guys up where you were like, we can't send this product out, or did you have to ship, or would you elect to like not send it with the cyanuric acid stuff in it and then be like, hey, we're gonna ship this to you later. Hey everybody, and welcome back to another episode of the insurance interlude with your host, Steve Sherwood, and as always, Pat Grignon from California Pool Association. So, Pat, thanks for coming on. Um, really appreciate you being here as always. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_06 16:34

Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_07 16:35

So I got a couple questions, and this is just from stuff that has happened to my company in the past. And, you know, we do CPO classes and we do like LA County prep courses and stuff like that. So there's always people calling and asking about the differences between the licensing, and you know, a lot of them are local to Southern California, and you know, how it usually happens is you know, you start doing this pool stuff, you don't even realize that you need to get a commercial, you know, a commercial or a residential license for the county, and you start doing commercial pools. So health department comes out, and uh they're like, Who's your LA County technician? You know, and they're like, Well, well, so and so company is, and then they look up on the website and there's their names not on there, you know. So now the client goes to that company and they're like, Hey, like you're supposed to have this licensing, or you know, whatever. And now the company calls me in a panic. And they're like, Hey, like, we don't have this license, you know. Um this nice young lady called me today, and she was like, Hey, she's like, I'm the business owner, and you know, everything's in my name, and my husband does all of the the work. So she was asking, like, can I get my LA County Technician's license and you know, have it for the whole company so he doesn't have to go and take the tests because he doesn't read and understand English that well. Um and no, you can't do that. Like for CPO in some of the states, like the business owner can have CPO, and then you know, it's for the company, right? Like all of our guys are individually CPO certified, and obviously you know, Pat, that if you go to court, it looks way better on your company if everybody is certified in your company. But there's certain things like you everyone has to get their LA County technician's license. So she's kind of in a pickle of like, you know, I'm gonna get fired from this commercial client if we don't produce this license pretty soon. And there's really no way to go get it in like a straightforward fashion because like you have to send a money order out to the county, then they have to give you a date. They don't run the test every day, every month. If you want to do the prep course with us, we don't run the prep course every month because we're not running it for one or two students, so we'll like hang on to a couple students, and then we'll and then we'll uh you know, and then we'll kind of go from cook go from there. And like once we have three or four people, we'll be like, hey, you know, this month we're gonna or next month we're gonna run it, so we do the prep course and whatever. So she asked me something, and she was like, So you you guys all have your license, right? And I was like, Yeah, of course. I was like, all of my guys have their license. I was like, some of them even have their apprentice license where they didn't want to take the full 50 question test or whatever it was, so they go and take like a mini test, and now they're only allowed to work for me under my license, but they are licensed, right? So she was like, Can I use your license? You know, and I was like, Well, I don't know. I was like, you know, I've done that before with like uh hotels that we've done CPO, and then I, you know, they didn't know about the LA County, and then I told them about the LA County, and they were like, they were like, We're not doing that shit. Like, we're just gonna just hire you guys for a week, like one day a week, you know, and you guys are our now our LA County technician. And yeah, you can hire me and do that, and we'll come once a week and we'll do uh you know, a small service visit, and we'll do a full panel test, and we'll do a safety check for you, and basically we're gonna, you know, we're gonna be your person, right? It's a lot easier for me to say yes in in that you know aspect, and like I, you know, obviously I always have a lot of shit to say, right, Pat? So uh very seldom am I in uh in a situation where I don't know what to say. And this is one of those situations where I was just like, I you know what? Like I was like, I'm hopping on a podcast with my insurance guy later today. Like, let me ask him about that. So is there anything that I need to worry about, you know, number one, doing it for hotels, which I think is the same thing as me, you know, at that point it doesn't matter if I come three days a week or if I come one day a week or whatever, like if I'm your LA County person, then I'm your LA County person, right? Um but like anything that I would need to be like, you know, watch out for with with this stuff, you know, and like is that a smart move? And look, I haven't I haven't done it and I'm I'm I don't plan on doing it. It's not something that I I don't think that we're probably comfortable with. But I want to know, like, is that something that you can do? Is that something that's smart to do? Is that something that uh, you know, now if I do that, I need to do X, Y, and Z? Or like how does that kind of look from you know the outside in? Because I, you know, I have a license for this and I want to be helpful, but like at the same time, like I'm not trying to to get in trouble for for some shit that I'm not supposed to be doing.

SPEAKER_06 21:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. No, it's it's it's it's common across the construction trades as well, right? You know, you Maybe not don't have the license for the type of work for the dollar amount. And so you bring in a company and that they're kind of there on paper. It's their contract, but it's technically your job. You know, so I would really look at it as you're essentially, I would look at them as like a subcontractor of yours, right? Where they should have their own insurance. They're, you know. It's risky because you're not doing the work, right? But you you're the one who's got the the company name on file, the license.

SPEAKER_07 22:29

With a hotel, like these dudes are there 24-7. So it's a little bit like uh you at least know there's someone there to test the chemicals, right? You you know that someone's there to backwash the filter, you know that if the pool is uh is cloudy, that like someone can at least you know do some of this stuff that they they need to do. Where you know this company could and a lot of commercial pools, like they're always like, Oh, can you guys come once a week? And I'm like, no, we can't come once a week. Like, if you want the pool to look like shit for six days and then look good for one or two, then yeah, then have us come once a week. But like if you want it to look good all week, like we probably need to be here Monday, Wednesday, Friday.

SPEAKER_06 23:10

Yeah, three times.

SPEAKER_07 23:11

You know, at the very least, we need to be here Tuesday, Friday, or Monday, Thursday, or at least two days a week. You know? But like what if they're only there once a week? You know, like does that make a difference on how often they're on on site? You know, and basically, like, am I co-signing, you know, they would have to be additionally added as additionally insured, right? I mean, that's that's that's a bare minimum that I know from all of our past shows. Um, but like, am I co-signing off on their work with this? Or like, you know, again, like basically just seems scary, right?

SPEAKER_06 23:48

Yeah. Yeah, like essentially you are, right? Like you're you're if it's your license, then your name is essentially under contract, and ultimately that's where the buck starts when, you know, when or if there's a lawsuit that uh that happens or there's there's any sort of liability. So, you know, I think from an insurance standpoint, a little bit different for for the um husband-wife scenario, at least from an insurance standpoint, you know, you check with your insurance agent, but like our policy, as an example, like there's automatic coverage for a spouse. You don't have to, you don't have to say, I've got two owners in the field, right? It's automatic coverage for the spouse. But but a lot of policies do where you'd have to say, it's a two two employee company, we're both owners and we're both in the field, um, which would affect the rates on a lot of policies. It does not on ours. Um you know, and and technically with the, you know, with the you could always add, you know, the other person in your other example of the, you know, the uh wanting to put your your name and license down for the hotel, you could always add you know that person to your policy. You should at least make sure they have insurance and that they're additionally insured, like you said. You know, but you from an insurance standpoint, it's just a matter of talking to your agent and and making sure you get covered. But but yeah, I mean, look, if it's your license, that's like you're you're the start and finish of uh you know of the lawsuit, the liability. It's the first place they're gonna look, first place they're gonna start. And so, you know, again, risk tolerance is uh risk tolerance is is up to the individual. But yeah, it's you're putting putting licensing and insurance coverage and all that kind of at stake when you do that.

SPEAKER_07 25:25

I think it's just more of a question of like, you know, what's stopping and I would never do this, but like what's stopping someone from going and getting that license and then starting to send out emails to all these hotels saying, hey, you can use my license, you know, one day a week, and now you know, you got fucking 50 clients that you're that you're that you're doing their pool, but you're only really showing up once a week, you know. And it begs the question of like, is not whether that's right or wrong. It's just like uh, you know, you get enough people that are that are doing this, they're gonna somebody's gonna do that.

SPEAKER_06 25:58

Yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, look, state or local authorities would crack you if they found out outside of an insurance reason. Um, you know, but like you you generally wouldn't have if if that was the intent and there was a bunch of this and there was a lawsuit or something, someone's trying to light on it, then your insurance policy likely would would figure out a way not to pay if you were actually liable for it. So yeah, I mean, certainly people can do it, but you know, it's a matter of, you know, if you get found out, depending on who finds out, I think ain't gonna end up being a good situation for you. So but yeah, I mean I I see it a lot, man. With we, you know, through the other avenues of the business. I mean, we ensure a lot of contractors as well. Uh there's a lot of it, you know, there's a lot where, you know, a good example, you know, service related and and frankly similar to pools, right? You've got like the lawn care mow and blow operations, you know, they're doing weekly service, they come, you know, come to the place and and tidy everything up in the backyard and front yard every every week, you know. But you know, maybe maybe that company, so you don't necessarily need to have a license for that for California. The jobs are gonna be less than 500. Most of those are like a hundred two hundred and fifty bucks a a month. And so you don't need to have a license for that. Like if you're just netting pools, then your jobs are all less than 500 bucks each, you know. I think it's 750 now.

SPEAKER_07 27:16

But in California, they actually changed it to a thousand.

SPEAKER_06 27:19

A thousand? Wow. Yeah. Well, you know, so it you don't need you don't even need to have a contractor's license for that type of work. But let's say, oh, you know, I need you to to rip out these planters, you know, and and and replace the the bushes and flowers in there, um, you know, and the the lawn care person comes back and says, Yeah, well, that's gonna be two grand. Like, you need to have a license to be charging for that. So, you know, I've seen it frequently where they'll go grab and put under contract the licensed, you know, landscape contractor. They do the work, the whole thing, but technically, you know, I as the homeowner would cut the check to the licensed landscape contractor that was never even there. You know, so it it certainly isn't infrequent at all. Um, but you know, again, you've got insurance, potential insurance issues, you get potential, you know, um, you know, authority issues, depending on whether it's state or local or whatever.

SPEAKER_07 28:12

And yeah, I mean, it's it's not uncommon to see it just opens, you know, it just opens up a lot, a lot of other questions too, right? For for everything. And it's like uh you know, not all of these questions have answers, really is what it is, and it's it really more looks at like your risk tolerance and you know, how risk averse you you really are in this in this situation. And again, like we said at the beginning of the episode, you know, being a pool guy surely opens you up to a lot of different types of liabilities that maybe as another business owner, if you're making pet collars or you know, some other some other whatever, it's you know, it's it's a lot less likely that you're gonna get get sued. So yeah, absolutely. All right, Pat. Well, thanks for coming on and shining the light on uh this using this license question for for everybody. And uh, you know, I think the bottom line here is before you enter into an agreement with any other company, always go and talk to your insurance agent just to make sure that you're you know crossing your T's and dotting your I's and making sure that everything is uh nicey nice, right? So uh really appreciate you coming on, Pat, for this. And uh, as always with California Pool Association, if you reach out to them and you mention the Talking Pools podcast, they will give you a hundred dollars off for your general liability annual policy, um, which is great. So, guys, keep on listening. We really appreciate the feedback. And if you guys ever have any questions, you can reach out to me at talkingpools at gmail.com. It'll go over to Rudy and he'll forward it over to me and we'll talk about it on the show. So, Pat, um, have a great week, man. And Joe, hope you're enjoying the summer. And uh hope everybody out there has a happy and profitable week. We'll tell I'll catch you next week. Thanks. Thanks, Steve.

SPEAKER_05 30:01

All the reagents that were made, a lot of them were blended reagents. So it wasn't just one thing like sulfuric acid or something, you know, it was it was a combination of stuff. And I do remember, this is a long time ago, see maybe 15, 20 years ago, something happened with DPD. DPD number two. And we weren't able to get the raw product from our suppliers, and it it got to the point where we couldn't get it from any place else. So we just simply didn't sell. We had to let all of our people know, all of our accounts know, hey, you know, DPD is on on back order, please be patient with us. And we finally got to settle, but it took a couple months. So it it doesn't really have I I remember the DPD powder, it happened to that too a couple of times.

SPEAKER_07 30:47

So you just ceased to stop selling product at that point, and for two months you were just kind of in a holding pattern.

SPEAKER_05 30:52

Exactly right. Now we did you know, we did back order stuff, which is pretty rare for for what we did. But yeah, we we we did back order stuff. Now we now those are you know reagents, chemicals. If you go to the to the hard stuff that that we would sell, you know, things like meters or the hard stuff. Hard stuff, yeah. The 90 proof stuff. Yeah, so pieces of of equipment, pieces of uh like the raw plastic that they would make the Tesco cases from, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_07 31:23

The little spoons.

SPEAKER_05 31:24

Yeah, the little spoons, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 31:26

I always I always laugh when I when I get to talking about the the FAS DPD. I'm like, all right, so you got this powder here, I'm like, you got this little spoon here. And I give like an extended glance and everybody's like, ha ha ha ha ha ha.

SPEAKER_05 31:37

Yeah, I called them coke spoons, but that's exactly what they look like. And then they changed it to anyhow, that's an that's a whole nother episode. But yeah, so some pieces of of of equipment of of non-chemical product, there might have been a delay on from the manufacturer. A lot of them came from when we were resell product like Myronelle meters. I know they they would resell like the TDS, the TDS and salt meter, a couple other things, and there might have been a delay on their part. So but it wasn't actually that that common that often. You're usually looking at big ticket items, big big things like what you experience, heaters, thing, things of that that we of course didn't didn't get involved with. But uh, yeah, it was really dependent on what the thing was.

SPEAKER_07 32:21

No, and that's that's really what it is too. But like it, you know, okay, cool. So let's say, uh, you know, we love to use Ray Pack heaters, and again, mostly for the support, because their support is great, you know, and I'm not I'm not here to talk shit on them. I'm just here to say that like, you know, not everything works out every single time, you know, and that's just the the God's honest truth. But like I'm not gonna stop using Ray Pack heaters, they're amazing, they they work great. And again, John Maloney, he's the shit. Like, I love him, you know what I mean? He's a great guy. It's this isn't his fault, and it's you know, it's it's more of like I want him to go back and talk to the people that that matter on this and be like, uh, how can we, in good conscience, sell a heater to this kid and he he needs parts for it and we can't source them within a week. So if it was a a new install, or let's say there was like a Jandy JXI dropped in there and Jandy was like, hey, or Fluidra was like, hey, we you know, we're back ordering on this for three months, I would be like, cool, like we're gonna go get a pent air heater, we're gonna go get a RayPack heater, like there's your competition is out there. But with this, nobody fucking makes electric heaters, Wayne. Like I've already gone through this before because I at the beginning, they were having trouble sourcing these rods, you know, these elements for them because it was it was a brand new heater. And I was just like, you know, the one time instead of them sending us the elements because they couldn't source them, they they sent us another heater instead. And that's what I that's where I'm at with this, where it's just like this part's like maybe a couple hundred bucks.

SPEAKER_05 33:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 33:46

So it's like, are we really gonna have to get a new heater because, you know, because of this? Like, there's you can go with the coats heater and nobody really holds them in stock because again, they're all low voltage. This is a high voltage one. So I've just never been in an instance where like I've been kind of like pinned in the corner like this, where I'm like, I I have to use this this heater for this this application, you know. So that that kind of puts me in like a weird position of like, okay, cool, like, well, we're just gonna figure it out with them as opposed to me being like, let's just get this done however we can get it done.

SPEAKER_05 34:19

Right.

SPEAKER_07 34:20

So I will know later today what's going on with that. And again, if that part doesn't work, like if it's throwing up another error code after that, like we're just gonna be like, hey, let's just get a new heater in there and we'll just get one under, you know. I've overnighted heaters from California to New Jersey before.

SPEAKER_05 34:34

So it reminds me of the old bait and switch that still exists, but you know, you would you you come in here you come out with this product, okay? That's great. You have the product, but it's it's either not available or they brought it out just to make people all excited so that when somebody goes to buy it, they switch them to another model or or or something else. Um and that's that's one of the one of the issues, one of the problems in the industry, I think, is that a lot of the larger manufacturers will come out with with something new, okay, or improved, but yet they don't have the the the the manufacturing capabilities of creating new product or parts for that, like you're experiencing right now. And that just seems to me too much they were too much of a ru in a rush to get the product out to start making money, and they didn't think it through. You know, they they they just said, you know, well, yeah, here it is, but oh, we don't have any parts or any real support, technical support or whatnot for it.

SPEAKER_07 35:37

Yeah, I mean I've had that happen before with with other types of products and and other distributors, you know, and RayPack with their suite of what they they they have, like their products, most of them are pretty solid, you know. It's just now we're in a in a space where not that many people get this particular product. So this is like a PCB board that is made specifically for this heater, and like the other size heaters have different parts because they're different sizes, or well, whatever it was with it. You know what I mean? That that was really more of the thing. It was just like, how can we not? I just kind of can't really wrap my head around like that. I can't find it because that's that's what I do. Like I literally find pool parts, right? Like the moniker of our our pool company is that we're the pool guys, pool guy, right? So so that brings me to my other thing that I wanted to talk about today. And uh, you know, Hayward. They have like this program, and my rep Sergio just put me onto it and hooked me up with some some lights and stuff, and like uh he was basically like there's and you know, Fluidra does this as like an you know an early buy or whatever you want to call it, where they give you a form and you fill out the form and you say, Hey, I want to buy, you know, 10 of these or what whatever it is, and uh they send you like a voucher and you pay for it online, and then you go into your distributor and you pick it up and you give them the voucher, and like uh, you know, they work it out on the back end with Hayward or you know, Fluidra or whatever. So one of our longtime listeners, um, I'm not gonna say his name and I'm not gonna say who the the managing distributor's name was because I don't wanna, I don't wanna talk, I don't, I'm not here to talk shit, but like basically what happened is the guy bought a bunch of like cleaners or whatever they were, or lights or whatever. And he reached out to the branch manager and he was like, Hey, I bought six of these Hayward things. He's like, Can I come in and redeem them next week? And the guy's like, Possibly. He's like, let me check the inventory. He's like, out of curiosity, he's like, Where do you shop these days? Because I don't see much of your business anymore. And he he wrote back in another text, he was like, to be honest, he was like, uh, we have inventory, but he's like, I'd actually prefer that you went to took your voucher to your primary distributor that you that you buy from right now. He's like, I'm always happy to find a way to, you know, grow sales with a customer long term. He's like, but I don't completely support the Hayward voucher program since it's just basically taking profits from regular sales. So Hayward customers, he's like, it's hard for me to understand. He's like, why they're still pushing these vouchers to you guys. He's like, unfortunately, margins are not something I can share with you. But he's like, uh, you know, this program doesn't really make much sense for us to be, you know, pushing it because there's there's nothing to be to be made. So my guy writes back, he's like, so wait, he's like, do you guys honor these or not? He was like, it's a yes or no question. He was like, not what my current spend is. And he was like, Oh, you're welcome to bring it here. He's like, I'm not telling you no, and it has nothing to do with your current spend. He was like, I just was mentioning that I'd prefer that you took it to your primary distributor to go buy it there. And he wrote back, he's like, That's weird that you're judging me where I spend my money, I go to the lowest price. He was like, sorry, you're never the lowest. He was like, Would you spend more for the exact same thing? Yeah. And that's how they kind of left it. But like, uh that's fucking crazy that if the if if a branch manager of any store ever started talking shit to me about where I spend my money, like maybe you guys should care about your fucking customers a little bit more. You know, and look, I the distributor that he's talking about is one of the main distributors that I use. And that distributor in my area, awesome. Like uh, I teach classes at their branch. Um, I do like an LA County prep course there. I teach some CPO in-person CPO classes there. And anytime, like they have always like they've done shit that they're not even supposed to do. Like, I bought something from another branch and I like got it, and then I was like, oh, we don't need this actually. Like, we, you know, it's a heater or like a filter. And I'm like, it's still in the box, not open, you know, like where they're supposed to be like, hey, this is a restocking fee, and they will take it back at my branch and literally ship it back to that other branch for me for free. You know what I mean? So like they go, they, you know, and I've had stuff where like bad stuff has happened before. And like, you know, I've had weird stuff where like we order a heater and they gave us the wrong heater. And we went, and because all of them kind of look the same, we went and you know, installed the heater, and we didn't even know until afterwards. And then they called us later in the day and they were like, yo, like you took a heater that's more expensive than the one that you guys have. And I'm like, You gave it? Like, what do you want me to do about it at this point? And if it was either or, like, even if it was on my end where I got the cheaper heater, you know what I mean? Like, what like we we already opened, it's already out of the box, it's already opened, like we can't bring it back. Like, there's water running through it right now. So this is not something that I really can can deal with. But a lot of this stuff, you know, and it just brings me to the point of like uh, you know, where my rep was saying, like, this this isn't really like our problem. This is like uh the you know, like the distribution's problem. And it's like this sounds like a problem between the manufacturer and the distributor, and it sounds like not my problem. You know what I mean? Like, sounds like something that like I'm I'm here willing to give you my money, like uh let's let's get this this this done. But what all of my distributors do for me is normally when I come in and I say, hey, something is cheaper at this other place, can you match the price? 90% of the time, they say that they'll match the price. The ones that won't match the price anymore is Leslie's. If you go to Leslie's and you have a pro account with them and you go in and you're like, hey, I want to buy this, but it's cheaper at this other distributor, can you match it? They'll be like, no, like we can't match it. And I'm like, okay, but I want to buy six of them. And they're like, no, like corporate says that we can't do that. And again, it's just because they've closed X amount of stores in the last year. So like now their district managers are at less stores. The sales pipeline is just getting smaller and smaller. So the piece of the pie is absolutely getting smaller, and there's more hands in the pie. And they're just trying to make sure that they, you know, they're not gonna sell me something that they're gonna only make $50 on. And that's what it comes down to, and that's what this branch distributor was talking about with the Hayward stuff. That, like, you know, hey, we don't really make much money on this. But again, that's not your fucking business. Like, shut up, take the voucher, and uh, you know, I I I would assume that this guy is gonna get catch some shit for this. And I hope he does, because if you're a manager out there and you work for, you know, Heritage or Pool Corp or Leslie's or Bay State or Jetline or or one of these, you know, one of these distributors, and you are telling customers that like they should be spending more with you, like you need to keep your mouth shut. Like, that is not your not your place. Like, if I was your manager, I would fire you. Uh, like you shouldn't be saying that to customers. Like, customers have free reign to, you know, shop where wherever they want. And, you know, one of the things that I think is kind kind of crazy, and they just talked about this on the down under show about the salt cells. We were saying this before that like 95% of people or cus, you know, residential customers in New Zealand and Australia have these small salt cells. So, like for us, we don't make small salt cells. We make fucking these salt cells that are for 30,000 gallon pools, 40,000 gallon pools. But like, there's only really two distributors, two manufacturers of liquid chlorine. I mean, I'm sure there's more, but like there's two that have the whole, you know, Hasa, Hasa and Apcana are the ones that when I go to distribution, those are the only two ones that I see that are sold. So I am sure that Hasa and Apcana don't want everyone to have salt cells because then you wouldn't be purchasing as much liquid chlorine. And, you know, that's that's kind of how it works. But uh, I just would like to see a little bit more um cohesiveness and a little bit more cooperation from the manufacturers with the distributors. And like uh, you know, I don't want to go to my distributor and leave feeling like uh like I'm not spending enough money with them there. Or I I to be honest with you, Wayne, like I have not looked at how much I do not look at. How much money I spend. You know, there's certain guys where they're builders, and like Panthere has a trip every year. And if you build 20 pools and you put in 20 equipment sets for them, like they take you on a fucking Santorini vacation or on a cruise or, you know, to Cabo or whatever. And it's like a five-day trip and Fluidra does it, you know, all of them do it. And it's a great program, but like I don't spend enough to get into that program. And also, like, I'm not putting in all equipment pads of one thing. You know, I like Hayward sand filters, I like Jandy and Fluidra automation systems, you know, I like uh RayPack heaters. So like I'm all over the board with that. So I will, I also don't want to pigeonhole myself to working with just one manufacturer because what winds up happening is these guys have a lot of movement and they move jobs frequently every two to three years. And like it's it's kind of even crazy. Like some of the reps that I was like really good friends with, we would like meet up for dinner like three, four times a year at the show, we would always go out, and like they were super awesome guys to work with. And like, I don't know if it was me, like, and I changed jobs, I would reach out to my top 15 customers and just be like, hey, just wanted to let you know, like uh this phone is going to somebody else, and like uh, I'll reach out to you when I get to my new position just in case like I don't understand why they wouldn't reach out to me to keep me as a customer, and I find out like they're working for like a cover company or they're working for a you know, Alpha West or like uh someone that's like not like a distributor, but like kind of in the same space, right? Right. So like when you reach out to your former customers and be like, hey, like I'm working with so-and-so now just in case you need anything, you know. I've had it happen like three different times when that just goes to show you that like uh, you know, these guys are your your friend, but like they're also like in business working for these manufacturers as well. Yeah, you know, where like I was kind of like, oh, like I thought we were and like it's not that we're not friends, it's just like these guys, this is business, you know, and I I say that all the time that like this is not personal, this is business, and like uh if shit isn't going right, like I can always take my business elsewhere, you know. So that's kind of the attitude I have, and that's the attitude that the clients that I have sometimes have. You know what I mean? They're like, if we can't work with you, and if you're not gonna be able to get it done for us, like we're gonna find somebody that can get it done.

SPEAKER_04 46:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 46:20

So, you know, in the episode today, my you know, parting thoughts, I think, is just to make sure that you you're squaring up with your people and you know all of your manufacturers' representatives for each company. So if you guys do, you know, get into some sort of a pickle like I'm in right now, it you know, look, I know this isn't the end of the world. Like uh this guy might, his pool might be down for three or four days or or whatever it is, and like he's gonna lose a lot of money, but like there's nothing we can do, you know. So like I'm not gonna go crying or like breaking down somebody's door because I know that everybody is trying the best that they can. And you know, you just really need to make sure that your work that you have these relationships that you can go back to them and say, Hey, you know, this is exactly what's going on. You know, how are we as a team here gonna figure this out?

SPEAKER_05 47:08

I just heard a puppy bark. Yeah, that's definitely hello from the West Coast. Yeah, it and it's true, and and you know, we would like to hear from you guys out out there too. If you've had a similar situation, something parable you'd like to share with us, please send an email to talkingpools at gmail.com and it will eventually get to us. And if we use your thought, topic, comment, idea, whatever on on our recordings, we'll send you a little thank you present. We appreciate it. And uh Steve, appreciate you as always too. Have a fantastic week. And gang, we'll be seeing you next Thursday. Talk to y'all later.