IN this episode of OneLeg Up, Vic Sun discusses the new iOS14 Updates and Chat Marketing.
bot, audience, people, ads, facebook, customers, marketing, data, automation, ultimately, vic, type, opt, email, question, chat, work, platform, messenger, stephen
Stephen Bradeen, Vic Sun
Welcome to one leg up where we discuss how you can deliver the very best customer experience and how you can achieve zero marketing waste. I'm Vic's Sun, the mastermind here at one leg. And today, I'm joined by Steven Bradeen, co-founder of Chat Blendr.
There are partner. And Steven, how are you doing today, man?
I'm doing just Super Vic. Thanks for having me on. And I'm excited to chat with you today, as always.
Thank you for being here, I know you're a busy guy. Stephen, just for our viewers and our listeners, you know, why don't you give him some insight? What makes you the subject matter expert? What do you guys do?
What's Chad Blendr all about?
Fantastic. Well, Chatblender is really a full service e commerce agency. And we like to focus on intelligent automation and conversation design as our as our primary or our special sauce to making all the magic happen and ultimately driving millions of dollars for, you know, large brands and Disqus D2C businesses through items like SMAS, Mass and Facebook
Messenger, Instagram, DMS, you know, email marketing and paid media. Right. And ultimately creating exceptional customer experiences for your clients. Exactly.
Very good. That's that's great. And so you're joining us today because we are going to discuss a super hot topic in the world of direct to consumer and even be to be, you know, marketing these days, chat bots.
But in specific, how this new iOS update and Facebook versus Apple. This is a big thing right now. Everybody's talking about it and we're hoping that today you can discuss that because you're very technically, obviously an expert in this in in non-technical terms for our non-technical audience to help them navigate through, through through these things.
So what you know, what what makes this an important topic nowadays?
Well, you know, some of your audience may be feeling this already without maybe fully understanding why. Right? Because it's it's maybe already be impacting your ads and especially more your re-engagement of retargeting ads via Facebook and Instagram in these places.
And it really starts with this kind of epic battle of the giants that we're always on the edge of our seats to witness between Facebook's Sweet and Apple products. So, you know, essentially, you know, Apple kind of you know, these are very smart companies, as you might imagine.
Apple realized one day that, hey, you know, we sell phones, we sell products. We don't sell data. We know we don't earn any money off of our customers. Information and personal data know opposed to Facebook, which is Facebook is a is an ad ad machine.
Right. They make all their money off of the ability to for different businesses to reach their audiences on Facebook. And they do that by having this amazing algorithm that allows you to intelligently, intelligently segment your audience and serve them ads in concurrence with their actual customer journey.
And this happens through a process of pixel in your audience and being able to kind of track them across their journey. So if they view one of your video ads for 10 seconds, you know, if they if they view that ad and then go to your site and add something to their cart and then abandon.
Right. You can get all of this data instantly. And what happens is, is Apple kind of said, OK, well, you know what? We're going to put our customers data in their hands and we're going to allow them to essentially decide whether they want to opt in to this type of tracking or opt out.
And what this means is anybody using any app on iOS system or I was 14, they're going to start getting these little pop ups. Do you want to be tracked or do you not want to be tracked? And what's going to happen is, is as people tend to opt out of this type of private to to gain
more privacy, they'll tend to opt out. That means that all of your Facebook ads are going to lose the ability to track or retarget a lot of your audience. That make sense so far.
Yeah, and you did it in a very simple way, you know, so it sounds like, you know, Facebook being able to track all the data, follow you around now with iOS for at least the people who use the iPhone.
You know, they're going to you know, it's going to allow the device to control it as opposed to the platform. And really, that's going to screw with with Facebook's ability to track you and and and leverage that data for behaviors that they could say.
Well, now that, you know, the behavior of these users now you could try to sell them works, you know, market to them in a particular way. So, you know. So tell me a little bit about so if you know, for for the for the regular people who who don't deal with chat bots and and the automation pieces
, you know what it's like. What do they need to do? Or is there something that they need to do at this?
Well, definitely. And there's certainly tools that can support these items. Right. You know, firstly, one of the big changes is and Facebook's kind of taking this on board. Right. You know, they're not saying, you know, they obviously they're not a huge supporter of it, but they have accepted it.
Right. So certain items on their platform, for instance, your general lifecycle from a prospecting to a sale has going to be changing greatly. You know, you're going from a 28 day attribution window all the way down to a seven.
So if you know, it takes two to three weeks to educate your customers on your products, it's going to be very difficult to track that from paid media. So what do we do about this? It really has put on a real platform the importance of owning your data and having first party data and first party communication with
your customers. So, what is that? You know, that's being able to have their phone number, their email, being able to have them as a subscriber to your message, your marketing setup, or your Chapela many chat account, and also being able to use that information in those automations to once you gather it.
And how do we gather it? We need to add value, right? We need to offer something that is valuable to our audience in exchange for this information, and then use intelligent automation to automatically upload this back into your whatever platforms you're using, like a Facebook ads manager to create custom audiences and look alike audiences to then be
able to reach this same group. So, you know, without that, you are very much you start to be in a situation where you're running, you're kind of buying your media blind. Right. Because even if someone does kind of, you know, work with an ad and ultimately convert, once that data goes through a site like Shopify back to
Facebook, Facebook's going to reject it. You're going to they're going to say, no, that person opted out. We can't use that data. So your visibility is a lot less. Right. So so all that to say, you know, if you're able to add a lot of value to your audience and give them a real reason to want to
engage with you via SMAS or via these other methods, you not only can use that to make your ads more intelligent and get a little bit closer back to what it is, what it is prior to when this came into effect, I think it was just almost just over a week ago that will kind of empower you
to build better relationships with your customers and make sure that the value you're bringing to your audiences is the first priority.
OK, and so I think one of the things that I took away from that, you know, and I'm sure our audience and our viewers will have more questions, but how does the automation piece, knowing this now? You know what?
Let's talk about bots, for example. How will that be helpful with this new changing landscape? Sure. Sure.
So one option for using a certain specific type of ad and this is something that all my clients, you know, were using before. So they're ahead of the game. But even the one of the rare ones that weren't were messaging me kind of pretty quickly.
My phone's been ringing off the hook all the past two weeks as they've had to realize this. They want to make this exact type of ad, basically their main thing. And what that is, is a click to messenger ad.
And what that allows you to do is invite your use prospecting ads or any type of bad, really, where you're inviting your audience in to Facebook Messenger, where you can create an automated journey for your customers. This is as simple as a tap of the button, and it keeps them on the Facebook platform.
Right. And this is something Facebook's going to be doing more and more as they add more products to combat this, all the sales and all these types of things. They're going to stay on the platform. And what's going to happen is you can invite them into messenger, you can greet them, you greet them usually with some sort
of brand mascot or persona personality that is quite charming and on brand. And it allows you to say, OK, let's we have this great piece of content. We know that if we run some ads toward this piece of content, that we're going to great it, get a really great opt in percentage and be able to capture
emails and phone numbers and permissions to follow up with them on Facebook Messenger. And with that that piece, it's super important because from there you can automatically upload all that data back into your Facebook ads. So that allows you not only to make more intelligent reengagement decisions and have you have your ads, more power with the data
, but then you can put them into more automations that nurture your audience over time. So this comes with lead scoring and the ability to consistently engage with your audience over time in a place where they're already communicating with their friends and their family.
And it becomes quite a quite comfortable experience for all of your customers to engage in that way. So that makes sense. Yeah.
Yeah, it does, and so it sounds like the automation, if you have a bot, it allows for you to subscribe, it allows for you to pick up this. This is first you know, the first you call it first party data.
Right. And you're not relegated to just third party and you're not losing that information. You're able to get those updates, drive it somewhere so you can make better decisions and engage and serve up the ads. So, you know, one of my and I think that's a good workaround for a lot of people who, you know, who are
not familiar with this, who don't have a bot that's servicing that particular channel because it's you know, I want to call it a bypass of the U.S. But if you get engaged, you're able to optimize and follow up with them.
You know, there are caveats to that, of course, but, you know, that is the next best thing. And you're able to go through that with you with your with your audiences. And so, you know, the question here really is, OK, that still sounds a little too technical.
You've got we've talked to a lot of D2C company. He's especially Adobe group Manufactory. They have no clue the difference between a bot. But, you know, some of them don't even know that a bot could exist within Facebook.
You know, how would you recommend the people in our audience who are interested in saying that sounds complicated, still complicated. I don't have anybody in-house to deal with that. I don't know where to start. How would you suggest that they start on this?
You know, if they want to at least, you know, dip their toe in the water,
you know, it's an interesting question, Vic. You know, obviously listening to the podcast like these and continuing the conversation is a great start. Right. But if you wanted to kind of take next steps, I know that many chat dot com has a fantastic blog where you're able to just take a look at some case studies, understands some
of the use cases. Right. You know, whether it's a Facebook comments that can trigger a Facebook message to each of your audience or whether it's a click to messenger ad where it's in the feed and they're able to just click it and it opens messenger and you start to ask these automated questions.
It would be great to go to that blog and read some of the examples of how it's being done and even experience some for yourself. And I know that if you're listening to this podcast will be able to provide a couple of examples and links to VIQ here who where you guys could just click and maybe get
a bit of an experience of what one might expect, because ultimately what you're creating is a pre guided query where you can ask questions, give answers and feedback, make product recommendations, know you can get more reviews. If you want more five-star reviews, you can intelligently follow up based on fulfillments to get more reviews.
If you're working with a marketplace like Amazon, you might want to work with product inserts where you're able to scan a QR code and come over to messenger to interact with a chat experience. And you know, there's a number of these types of campaigns from CUIS Funnels to viral giveaways that are all very fun and entertaining and
ultimately add value for your customers. So and that's really the trick is the more you're focused on that, the more you're also able to capture this information for your business to make more intelligent marketing decisions going forward. And kind of the best part of all this is that it's not as if it's kind of more expensive.
You know, I know a lot of your audience out there is likely using live chat wraps and these types of items. This is the type of automation that works 24/7, 365, that you don't need to kind of pay benefits in these types of things.
Right. It works. There you sleep. So the more you kind of focus on these interactions and making them exceptionally smooth and valuable to your customers, the more you can win. And this new this new privacy void of privacy world, I guess that makes sense.
No, yeah, it does, and we've seen, you know, through a partnership, you know, a marketing efficiency ratios or row as of five to seven X, you know, some of them have gone to 10 X, you know, based on this, you mentioned how this is so much more efficient and effective.
And, you know, we're not trying to get rid of human agents. You know, you can work. You can have a life and work side by side. But how do you how do you how do how do people navigate when choosing so that most of the companies we talk to, they don't have a a CIO or CTO who
knows about the bots or an LP or A.I., you know, how do they go about choosing an agency, you know, to go and say, OK, these are the people who are going to help me get this stood up.
You know, once they've decided on the platform, or at least, you know, they have a good general idea of what they're you know, what that automation or with that what you do,
you mean more or less in terms of kind of choosing or finding a partner to help with this? I mean, ultimately, it's these are these are somewhat these are a combinations of skill sets. Right. You know, to do this type of work effectively, you're talking some technical skill sets, you're talking copywriting, you're talking in kind of
the ability to deeply understand an audience. So, I don't necessarily think it's something that you're going to kind of hire someone out of school or these types of things. This is moving too quickly for education. You're going to have to find an agency that is on the forefront and in the trenches and really in tune with the
Facebook changes and can kind of forecast and understand what's coming. Right. So, it's incredibly important to do that. And, you know, when you ask these questions and when you knew maybe you're Googling agencies or looking for the types of referrals that you could get to improve this for your business, ask the questions that we've talked about, ask
how are you battling iOS 14? What steps are you taking? What's happened to the attribution windows? How are you using first party data to nurture your audiences? What results have you gained? Right. And with all these changes being incredibly fresh, you're going to be able to see a pretty obvious distinction between the ones in the know and
the ones who are lagging behind.
That's a great that's a great answer. And so the question I think, you know, I was thinking about when you were doing this is, you know, typically when, you know, a lot of companies, especially with the ones that we've spoken to, you know, they kind of see this as, OK, you know, I have a bottle ready
. It's not doing anything. What do you think is happening there? So many companies that we've talked to, they say, I have a lot. It sucks. People hate it. You know, what do you think? It's terrible. And now you're telling me, you know, you know, the box that you guys are going to build is so much better.
There's so much more expensive wood right now. The chatbot that we have, which really have more of chat features, not bots, but, you know, they think that they're Tebartz and they say they're terrible. Nobody wants to use it.
So, what do you say? Or at least how do you guide and help those people understand the difference or or how to, you know, upscale, you know, there, if you want to call it that, you know, their current chat technology?
Well, it's a great question, because I think the problem is that and we don't really even use the term board anymore, because the term board is is almost false at this point. It's too broad and too general.
We call it chat marketing and intelligent conversation design. You know, we're looking at your live chat conversations. We're digging in deep into the data, and we're designing a conversation that your customers can enjoy. What people do now with the standard board or in another context anyways, as they think about it as broadcasting.
Right. Like they're just pushing information toward people. It's like yelling at the wall. You know, that is not what you want to do, right. You want to make sure that your automation is actually asking questions, taking feedback and has conditional logic that answers the or responds differently and with more specificity to the type of question that's coming
in so that your audience is and kind of, you know, using a virtual assistant, there's three buttons. It's not the answer to that question. You need to have a real focus and the outcome in mind for each conversation and know that the people or your audience or your customers who you're putting through these types of flows are
the right fit for the outcome. Right. So, it starts from the fall, from the beginning, from prospecting all the way through your nurture. And you need to kind of take more of that type of approach. And, you know, you might think of its kind of like email marketing, except it's way more engaging and interactive.
Right. So, you know. If you do try to kind of bring people in from your emails for replies and these types of things, you know, imagine that, but in a way chattier context on social media, not just kind of on your website in a corner where there's it's not, you know, only dealing with the people with traffic
, the you know, the traffic coming to your site. It's different. This exists in your social media channels, which is one of the big distinguishing factors. And it gives you the ability to follow up there as well. One other thing on that.
Yeah, and the difference that I miss there is you take an omni channel approach. So, it's not like with most bots, you know, you're just on the website and it's just kind of like a window that pops up.
This is something that kind of interacts over SMS, email, Instagram, Facebook, messenger. Right. So so you are able to time out these types of messages so that you're not annoying anybody. Right. And that's where people kind of end up banging their head against the wall.
On a typical or standard, more old school bot, per se.
Yeah, and I've seen that firsthand, you know, just in the last week where people were like, look at this, it's supposed to do that, you know, schedule appointments, and generate me better conversions and then I, you know, test it out.
And you and I have looked at several of them and we just go, they're terrible. I would never engage because you're just trying to push information. You know, you just you know, what's your what's your name number and email?
Give me your give me your lead info right away. And it's like no one wants no
and. Exactly, and a lot of you know, a lot of business owners, you know, and DTC manufacturing, home improvement, they really aren't that well versed. They so many of them don't know that it is an omnichannel approach that the bot can follow up open rates for messages or when you serve up these ads are so much
higher, up to 80 percent higher than email is. You're basically, you know, pinging them or nudging them through the platform that they often use that not everyone wants to go and open your email, you know, and meet.
And we've done splits ads with exactly that. Right. And, you know, we'll do simple split tests where you'll have an email automation or a Facebook message to go out and we'll put it in a hierarchy. So the highest conversion will go out first if that is available to us within the context of this flow.
So, you know, we'll see something like a Facebook message go out and it'll actually get over 90 sometimes higher percent open rates. So, if you do compared to that, it's your email marketing. You know, our best email marketing will come out between 40 and forty five percent open rate.
And you might be hearing that thinking, damn, that's hot. Right. So, we look at that and say, well, we're still getting double on Facebook and we're really good email marketers. And ultimately alongside the opportunity to have, you know, imagine what your conversion looks like if you said, oh, you know, I'm getting 10 percent open rate on this
email, one percent click rate, we just made X amount of money. What happens if you have 90 percent open rate? What would you do if you backwards rationalize that math? Right. You know, you can end up seeing, you know, very high, just as high as the open rate click rates as well.
And, you know, ultimately you're going to see better numbers on the conversion and your ultimate goal is revenue.
Well, that certainly is, you know, something that a lot of people don't realize. You know, they only know what they know. And it is this fear of change, right, in in. Oh, well, I'm not familiar with that. I've never succeeded with that.
You know, that sounds complex. But the reality is, you know, doing what you're doing now. And, you know, it's not being efficient and you're just bothering a lot of people with a bunch of e-mails or your old school methodology, you know, overtime that's going to be effective.
So, I guess my last question would be, you know, what do you project moving forward, 20, 21? You know, how are the smart companies going to take advantage of this? And what will be the disadvantage to those who don't adapt to this new type of marketing?
Right. This intelligent conversation. You know, you know, what would be the pros and what would be the disadvantages to those?
Well, Vic, it's a great question, because, you know, in the context of world issues, we are seeing an incredible shift. Online retail stores are not exactly very popular at the moment. Leaving your house isn't very popular in the moments.
So when you think about the importance of creating your online presence and dominating your online space, if you are not really paying attention to this and you're kind of like, oh, well, it hasn't really impacted us, you know, we're just going to kind of keep doing what we're doing.
Well, it's going to impact you and it's a matter of time. And this the opt outs are all coming in. And it's just a week old at this point. But they're going to be on the rise.
So if you're not focusing on gathering this for first party data now and creating the appropriate value exchange, your digital presence is going to suffer. And that is going to be your most important channel for your business, no matter what.
So if your competitors are doing it and you're not, the famo is real. You know, it's very real. And that's why, you know, the smart, smart marketers and advertisers and advertisers right now are putting their best foot forward and jumping in with two feet on this, because ultimately, it's going to make all the difference a year
from now. There's not a lot of. Optimism that this is going the other way, right? Well, there will be other work arounds and API integration tracking these items, but if your customer drops out, they opt out and it's the Facebook won't be allowed to use their data.
And even if it comes in through an API tracking integration, they'll be like, nope, I can't use that. So, unless you're nurturing your audience in the appropriate way, there's a huge possibility of being left behind in this space.
Yeah, and you bring up another great point about in opt ins and compliance, because, you know, you can say, well, we're just going to keep doing it. But I think over time, we've seen a lot of, you know, these ambulance chasers and these lawyers, you know, figuring out, oh, you know, not a lot companies to
make a ton of money, you know, just creating havoc and issues for that. And, you know, for the most part, you know, with regards to the compliance, you want to take that away. It's also poor customer experience.
When, you know, when you when you kind of, you know, DILLY-DALLY on, you know, that they're the options or the the choices that the users make and they don't connect with me. And that was because you know of your poor execution from the beginning, you know what I mean?
So, this was really super helpful. You know, Stephen, you know, it's so happy that you went on this. We have to do this again. And I'm sure we're going to get a lot of people asking. We want more.
And we have Stephen Bradeen, you know, co-founder for chaplain there. They're a partner. That is it for us today. We hope you enjoyed our chat and learn a couple of things. As always, we here at one leg believe, you know, poor marketing pollutes the planet.
And that business is, you know, a lot of businesses are full of tired, outdated and indistinct, unremarkable, underperforming marketing. That suck. But what sucks even more is that many companies have forgotten the most important thing, the customer. And so, we're on a mission on behalf of clients, customers to change that.
To learn more GOCE zero marketing waste dot com, where you can subscribe to our blog and this very podcast right here. You can also visit chat, blenderchat.com. They are our partner. Help us with, you know, expediting, you know, implementation of your of your wonderful chat marketing or your intelligent conversation experience for your users.
You can also find us and follow us by looking for the flamingo and one leg handle everywhere you socialize online. Thank you again, Stephen, for being part of this. And we'll see you on the next episode.