Plastic Surgery Recovery Systems ft. Dr.Steven Williams and Laura Alexis

In this episode, our host & plastic surgery consultant Mavi Rodriguez is joined by board-certified plastic surgeon and the president of the American Society of Plastic Surgeons Dr. Steven Williams and Laura Alexis from Pop Recovery Systems. Pop Recovery Systems is revolutionizing the bariatric & plastic surgery experience with their innovative recovery systems​. Together, they explore the following key points:

1. How important are board certifications for plastic surgeons?
2. How some practices deceive their patients with "fake board certifications"
3. How social media is influencing the plastic surgery field
4. Pre- and postoperative care in plastic surgery
5. What are the challenges and progress of promoting diversity and equal access to healthcare?
6. What is semaglutide?

Tune in to this episode of the best plastic surgery podcast "Big Butts No Lies" to gain valuable insights into the world of plastic surgery and learn more about the plastic surgery industry!

Dr. Williams:  Steven Williams MD (@surgeoninblack) • Instagram-Fotos und -Videos
Pop Recovery Systems: Preparation & Post Op Surgery Recovery Systems (@poprecoverysystems) • Instagram-Fotos und -Videos

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Transcript

Mavi Rodriguez [00:00:09]:
Hey, guys. My name is Mavi, and I've spent the last 14 years in the plastic surgery and beauty industry, Working alongside some of the best plastic surgeons in the country. Now I don't work for anybody, so I have unbiased opinions about hundreds of surgeons from across the world, And I can help you achieve the body of your dreams. Hey, guys. Do I have the show for you today? I'm super excited to have doctor Stephen Williams and Laura Alexis from Pop Recovery Systems on the show today, and we are gonna have An amazing show. Let's start with something super interesting. My listeners, my girls know that I'm always Trying to bring them the most the most information, the top of the line, really, of like, okay. Let's find an answer.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:00:56]:
They know. If I don't know the answer, I'm gonna find an expert, and we're gonna figure it out. And we're gonna get to the bottom of this. So today, I think it would really it's a really awesome opportunity for us to really deep dive into the patient journey. And I saw, doctor Williams, in, your podcast prep, that diversity is something really important to you, so I really want that to, for you to share with us. What does that mean to you?

Dr. Williams [00:01:23]:
Yeah. So great question. You know, as a plastic surgeon, when we think about diversity, we wanna make sure that all of our patients have access to the The best health care, the best the best decisions, the best techniques, the best surgeries, really what it is It's about making sure that everyone has an equal playing field in terms of access to health care. And plastic surgery, a lot of times people think about it just as kind of the aesthetic cosmetic part, but There is a lot of medicine, a lot of reconstructive procedures we do, all those things are really important. And as you as your listeners know, Aesthetic surgery is actually a very large part of self actualization and well-being. And so when I think about diversity, I wanna make sure my patients have

Mavi Rodriguez [00:02:14]:
In your industry?

Laura Alexis [00:02:16]:
Well, I think that one of the things that my particular demographic of Being a black woman that we don't see enough is credible and safe information from board certified plastic Surgeons that we can relate to. So they'll be maybe our demographic speaking about surgery, but they're a cosmetic Surgeon, and it's, 3 3999 BBL special. You know, Vixen body That women like myself, a professional African American woman, that's not the look that we're going for. So, I would love to see more of that. But one of the reasons we created the systems the way we did and have so much diversity within our company is because we wanna be able to shadow, And and be a mirror for our patients to say, like, we're gonna help you find what you're looking for because we know There's a a need out there. Like, there's not enough doctor Williams out there. You know what I'm saying? Because this is what it is.

Dr. Williams [00:03:18]:
If I can just augment that. You know, Laura, I I really, really Appreciate you, you know, taking that position and really advocating for, you know, the people that you're working with and the people who come to you for answers. And sometimes as a board certified plastic surgeon, we feel like we say it all the time and we feel like maybe it's not being heard, but it is really so important because Those caregivers, those people who are trying to get patients to their journey safely, we're the ones that Have the ethical obligations. We're the ones that have a continuing medical education. We're the ones that are gonna stand by you postoperatively. We're not gonna put you on a plane and say, well, Thanks for the, you know, 39.99 for your b b l and good luck. You know, we really and a lot of times we're the ones that are responsible for fixing other people's problems. And so we really, care about patient safety.

Dr. Williams [00:04:09]:
We really want our patients to do well and and I really applaud you for taking some leadership and and moving forward to, protect patients and advocate for excellent care. So so thank you very much. I just wanted to jump in and say it.

Laura Alexis [00:04:21]:
No. Thank you. I appreciate it. It's it was one of the things that probably irritated me the most as I first started discovering more and more was my own Women, my own people, just kinda being guided in the wrong direction because of lack of information. And it's like the board certified plastic surgeons are held to certain ethical standards, but the cosmetic surgeons are not. So I felt like we needed to create some type of third party, like, space where they can say, okay. Well, What does Laura Alexis say about it? Like, you know, and that's what I'm trying to create alongside Mavi.

Dr. Williams [00:04:55]:
I I think it's even more important now. I mean, your timing is is Perfect. And and we're really in need of of of systems like what you've developed because social media is only becoming more and more powerful. And as you said, We're kind of our hands are a little bit tied about the things we can do. And when we think about how social media works, it's really this Currency of outrage and of unattainability and of shock, and those are the things that do better and those are the people who get more attention. And as a board certified plastic surgeon, I have to say things that are are are truthful, and I have to be honest with people. And sometimes that doesn't do very well on the algorithms. And so, You know, as a plastic surgeon, we know our voices are actually less on social media, and the voices of other people who are maybe not doing things as ethically are louder, and that's how people get hurt.

Dr. Williams [00:05:44]:
And so, again, 2nd round of applause, for you really kind of, you know, being out there on the forefront and and helping helping us to get the message out. Thank you so much.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:05:54]:
It is something that has been very important. I feel when that's how Lauren Lauren and I aligned ourselves with each other because When with this show, the mission was women are getting hurt and how can I help women stop getting hurt? Because I worked as Patient coordinator and I started to see them, the injuries from the other surgeons who were not really supposed to be doing this surgery, Coming into the office and the lives of those women just completely altered forever, and it It shocked me so much that that was the mission. We have to get out there. We have to share the good information. And I wanted I had an episode about this this season, but I I really wanna appreciate and take advantage that we have the sitting president of the the American Society of Plastic Surgery On and why don't you tell us a little bit about and educate our audience about the different, types of board certification as far as, like, board eligible, board certified, and boardify board certified cosmetic Surgeons.

Dr. Williams [00:06:59]:
Yes. And so this again, it's something that I feel like I kind of say over and over and over again, and sometimes, we forget how important it is to say it One more time, and so I I'm I'm really happy that you answered that question. The way to think about it is there is a, an organization that that manages Who should be doing what in in all senses? In America, doctors aren't restricted from doing whatever they want, which is a little bit weird. It has to do with Kind of fair trade and and some of the economics, but, an OB GYN could do brain surgery. I could deliver babies in my office if I want. That's not illegal. It's a terrible idea, but it's not illegal. And so, the American Board of Medical Specialties organized to certify Specific portions of medicine.

Dr. Williams [00:07:48]:
So there's board certified pediatrics. There's board certified OB GYN. There's board certified orthopedic surgery. There's board certified plastic surgery. There are a list of official certifications that this board maintains. Now within each of those boards, there is responsibility for Conduct, being honest, being ethical, being well trained, continuing medical education, and to become board certified, They're all a little bit different, but in plastic surgery, you have to obviously finish medical school, and then you have to go to a, a certified plastic surgery training program, you have to graduate from that program, and then you have to take A written exam after you've graduated, and that that doesn't count all the written exams you had to take to graduate in the 1st place, But you have to take a written exam about a year after you graduate, and you have to get a certain score on that. Once you get that score, Then the board starts collecting all your cases, meaning that every single case that you do, they wanna look at. Every single case that you see, you they were they're reviewing your pictures, they're reviewing your Pre op work up, you're they're reviewing your results.

Dr. Williams [00:09:01]:
And it doesn't mean that peep people can't have complications, but they wanna make sure that plastic surgeons are gonna say that they're board certified are managing those complications appropriately. They're being honest, and they're not setting themselves up or their patients up for disasters. And so the board then gets that year, year and a half of cases and they look at every single case, and they say, We want you to come in and we're gonna talk about these 5 cases. We wanna see what you were really thinking on these 5 specific cases. And then they say, and we're also gonna have 5 that we're not gonna tell you about, that that test what a plastic surgeon should know. And so After you've take after you've passed that written test, you have to travel to Phoenix. It's usually in Phoenix at once a year, and everybody gets together and it if you wanna see a bunch of nervous, Young plastic surgeons, that's basically it. Because everyone's walking around just reading and studying and just super nervous because it's a really important process.

Dr. Williams [00:09:57]:
It's a 2 day test. And if you pass that, then you can say you're board certified. After you graduate from plastic surgery residency, you can say you're board eligible, But that eligibility expires after a period of time. If you fail the test three times, you are no longer board eligible. If you wait a certain amount of time, I think it's about 8 years now, you are also no longer board eligible. They say, look. We gave you a shot to do it and and you can't do it. The whole point is This is designed to assure the optimum level of patient care that only the best, most ethical people are doing it.

Dr. Williams [00:10:35]:
Again, it doesn't mean that these People can't have complications. It means that you have the lowest chance of having a complication with 1 of us, and it also means that if you have a complication, we're gonna stand by you, and we're gonna figure out how to get through that together. Now your last point about other board certifications, this is where kinda gets messy. And I'm sorry to kinda be on this this, soapbox.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:10:57]:
It get messy, doctor Williams.

Dr. Williams [00:10:59]:
Yeah. Alright. Because this is kinda this is this is what kinda drives me crazy. Yeah. And so as I mentioned before, if I wanted, I could be delivering babies in my office. Right? Now a hospital won't let me deliver babies at their hospital because The hospital says, wait a minute. What is your board certification in? We're only gonna let you do what you're board certified in. So we know you wanna deliver babies in our hospital, but we're not gonna do it because You're gonna hurt somebody most likely.

Dr. Williams [00:11:24]:
But in your office, if you build a little, a little med you know, a little surgery center or a little surgery room in your office, You could do it. It's not illegal. It's a terrible idea. And the reason why you don't see plastic surgeons saying, I'm gonna deliver babies is because there's not financial incentive. And again, you said get messy. Well, I'm gonna get messy. Mhmm. Yeah.

Dr. Williams [00:11:46]:
The reason why other doctors are Saying I'm a cosmetic surgeon or I'm board certified in cosmetic surgery, which by the way there's no official board certification in cosmetic surgery. The reason they're doing that is because there's money in it. And because, especially with social media right now, they can convince patients that, Hey. You should come to me and give me your money, and I'm not really trained to do it. I'm really a general surgeon or I'm really an ER doctor or an OB GYN, But I'm not gonna tell you that. I'm gonna tell you that I spent $200 and sent a check to a PO box and they sent me this fake certificate that's on my wall And I'm board certified as a cosmetic surgeon. And so it's all about in in my opinion, fooling the patient a little Because why don't you just be honest about it? Why don't you just say, well, you know, I actually went to medical school and I did a residency as an OB GYN, and I didn't wanna do that anymore, and so now I'm doing cosmetic medicine, but I'm not really certified in it. Patients can make that decision, but there's a lot of Dishonesty and fooling people because they want the money.

Dr. Williams [00:12:53]:
So now I'm gonna get off my soapbox.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:12:55]:
I feel I feel like if patients Snow. Like, this is why it's so important to educate. You're so right. Because if patients know, and this is the stance that I've taken, they'll make their own decision on Who do you want to cut you open? Who do you want to cut you open and make sure that you heal perfectly and everything goes great And you don't have an infection, and you don't have any type of complication.

Dr. Williams [00:13:17]:
As you know as a patient coordinator, and as Laura knows because of of, you know, the Pop recovery systems, you know, having done all that work, there is a lot of people Trying to trick people in in, again, in my opinion. And as a plastic surgeon, I'm okay if a patient says, look, I have made an informed decision, And I know that he's an internal medicine doctor, but I've seen his results, I've talked to him, I just feel he's the right person for me. That is 100% okay. People have the right to make that decision, and I advocate people making informed decisions. But it's not fair when patients are lied to, and it's not Fair when there are these kind of fake boars. And, you know, there's only one reason to have a fake boar. It's it's to kinda fool people. And, and and it's really it's really unfair and it's something that as the president of the American Society of Plastic Surgeons, I I really strongly advocate, for patient education.

Dr. Williams [00:14:12]:
I know you guys both do too. So, again, thank you.

Laura Alexis [00:14:14]:
We do. And bored about this fake Bored. Like, I literally I mean, I am literally gonna be researching that and creating a dozen reels just about that subject Because Yeah. I don't think that anyone knows about it. I don't think that anyone knows that it's actually not a real board, that it's just a made up, Not the average client, you know. And a lot of times with these, you know, internal medicine doctors and all of this, One thing I think that they're tricking them about the most is by offering such a low bottom line price. And then comparing what They do to a board certified plastic surgeon and kinda saying like, we're gonna give you the same result, why would you pay so much more? And so that's why I think this education is so extremely important. Because someone like me 2, 3 years ago, You know, I wasn't looking for the cheapest, but I certainly wasn't educated to know enough that if this because there's cosmetic surgeons out there also charging the same as board certified

Mavi Rodriguez [00:15:14]:
Or more or more or more.

Dr. Williams [00:15:17]:
So Again, as they get more power on social media and as as their influence, you know, becomes becomes larger, they have that power. And I think 15 years ago, 20 year again, I'm I'm an old guy At this point, you know, before social media was really this powerful, I think it was a little bit more contained because it was harder to kinda get that message out. But now if you're able to really kind of blow up and get a lot of attention, you know, you can really, again, In my opinion, fool patients about what you're really trained to do. Yeah. It doesn't mean that if you're an internal medicine doctor, you maybe you're the one of the most amazing liposuction surgeons around. Is it do I think that's likely? No. But No.

Laura Alexis [00:16:01]:
I was gonna say you're so nice, doctor Williams. You're being so nice.

Dr. Williams [00:16:05]:
But maybe but maybe it's possible. But physicians should be honest. And, you know, the last little thing I'll say about social media is, You know, that transition from 15 years ago to now is really apparent. And and the way to think about it is Traditional media, lies have consequences. And the way to think about it is think about Fox News and think about Rupert Murdoch and he And the whole, you know, election thing, and again, I'm not being political. You know, wherever you land, that's totally fine. But It was clear that the whole Dominion voting machine thing was a lie, and this was promoted on traditional media. And lies have consequences on traditional media, and it was an $800,000,000 consequence.

Dr. Williams [00:16:51]:
And that's the tiny lawsuit. There's a bigger one coming. And, you know, that really kind of changed Fox's direction a little bit because they're like, woah, we have to be a little bit careful if we're gonna be spreading these lies And saying that this is the truth, there are gonna be consequences. None of that exists on social media because of section two thirty, which is a US regulation that allows, platforms not to be responsible for what's posted. You can say whatever you want and that really has perpetuated Some of the less ethical providers saying whatever they want, promising the moon, and, you know, patients fall for it because Not because they're not smart and not because they're not doing their research, but because these people are spending an enormous amount of time, energy, effort, and money Trying to fool people. And a lot of times, they're getting away with it.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:17:43]:
With wordplay. It's a lot of wordplay, a lot of, Let's touch on this subject, the the new wave of before and after pictures, That it's social media. They're social media driven, and they're posted on social media. And they drive all of this attention and attraction to certain surgeons. But When you really look at the pictures, they're all dressed. We never see a scar. We don't know what what does it look like under there.

Dr. Williams [00:18:13]:
Those are the good ones. The bad ones are the ones that have been photoshopped.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:18:16]:
And Yeah.

Dr. Williams [00:18:18]:
And, you know, again, if a plastic surgeon did that, they would be in serious Trouble. We are not allowed to to retouch our before and after pictures. They have to be honest representations of of what happened. And in fact, especially among amongst most of the societies, we're actually supposed to not put the really good ones up. It's supposed to be representative of what your work is. And so, you You know, there's a real again, there's that ethical ceiling that we're happy to be to be held to. I'm not saying I'm not complaining about that. But the guys that aren't doing it right are not held to that, and they're photoshopping their results.

Dr. Williams [00:18:52]:
And they're saying this is a 2 day recovery or this patient, You know, this patient had you know, she spent $500 and had a mommy makeover and did great. And, like, you look at the picture, you're like, That person didn't even have surgery. Like, you know, some I mean, some of it's amazing, you know, what they'll kinda promote. And and and it's gonna get worse Because AI is gonna actually make these algorithms more powerful, it's gonna get easier to fool people, It's gonna get easier to Photoshop and, you know, make changes. You know, before again, old man, 10 or 15 years ago, you had to know a little bit about Photoshop to actually Kind of use that liquify tool and move things around a little bit. Now you just tell AI to do it, and it it's only gonna get more powerful.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:19:36]:
I 100% agree. I'm I love AI. I'm at the forefront of the AI revolution. So I am excited about it, but I also know that it does come with its repercussions, and we have to be very cautious with how we use it. But I wanna talk about pictures on the table. What's your opinion, and why do you think that pictures on the table are misleading?

Dr. Williams [00:20:01]:
Yeah. I I don't, I don't personally post pictures on the table, especially for BBLs, and and the reason why is because and we've all seen them. Right? It's like that kind of, like, everything's, Shiny and Oh, I didn't know. That is a very carefully curated photograph. Right? It takes a good 3 or 4 minutes to set up for that photograph. And, the reason why it I don't feel it's particularly helpful is because Everybody's butt looks bigger on the table than it does at the end. And what patients really care about isn't what they look like Under anesthesia on the table, they care about what they're gonna look like in 6 months or a year. And so I think those pictures are much more representative, and those are harder to find, because Everyone looks smaller afterwards.

Dr. Williams [00:20:44]:
Anytime you do surgery, there's swelling. And and again, this is these are the ethical people. I definitely know of cases where people have injected saline and things like that that aren't probably aren't gonna be harmful, but can really make a difference in how things look. The doctor knows that that's gonna go away, but they're trying to get that that great before and after picture to trick more people. And so, and I'm not saying that I'm not Calling anyone out specifically, but I don't think it's a very helpful picture, in terms of making decisions for patients. I I think that kind of those longer term follow-up pictures are more important.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:21:18]:
Absolutely. And let me let me tell my girls why, why I think those or why we think that. For me, one of the most important things is once you At 6 months, we know how that incision looks. We know how everything's healing. So to me, looking at an incision at 6 months is way more important than looking at, before and after on the table just to take a just to see how how does this surgery heal. What do you think, or what do you guys think?

Laura Alexis [00:21:50]:
No. I mean, I agree 100%. And I think that one of the biggest Tools that the patients find helpful in the recovery system is that concierge wellness coordinator who tracks down those photos And tracks down that information that isn't easy to find on social media because, unfortunately, they are under the, pressure of Knowing that that 6 month before and after, though it's the most important, may not get the most likes or may not get the most engagement on social media. And so, you know, then you take that to a type a very busy person. Who's gonna spend days weeks years hours Trying to find a 6 month photo and even going into a surgeon's office, you know, I'm kinda more thinking about how do I feel with the surgeon. I may not even think about, hey. Can you show me some of your pictures from 6 months? You know? So it's like that's why it's so important, Mavi, what you do and What our team does because there's just not enough time in a day to do exactly what it takes to find the right surgeon for you, Board certified, you know, the fact that I mean, I just learned so much from you doctor Williams about the fact that board eligibility, You know, that you it's not really something that you have to strive for. It's once you I mean, you strive for it.

Laura Alexis [00:23:11]:
Don't get me wrong.

Dr. Williams [00:23:12]:
But you

Laura Alexis [00:23:13]:
graduate You graduate, you know, and then you're board eligible for, like, 8 years. So that means that somebody can be just Dancing along, like, I'm 8 years eligible. You know what I mean? I think that that's crazy.

Dr. Williams [00:23:26]:
It's a little and, Laurie, you're exactly right. It's a little bit weird to, you know, to be talking to a plastic surgeon who's more than 4 or 5 years out that isn't board certified. It definitely takes 3 years to get there because, again Okay. 1 year for the written and then 2 more years for the oral, but year 4, year 5, you should be board certified unless you failed. And, again, Someone who fails the board exam doesn't mean that they're a bad plastic surgeon, but it means they have a little bit more work to do to get up to the standards that are expected. And, Again, most patients, and I think you've mentioned this a little bit earlier, a lot of times price is a factor. And, You know, I'm not trying to downplay, affordability because because that is a big driver in terms of access, in terms of people's decision making process, but, You know, it's your life. And, and and, you know, you don't wanna have saved a few $1,000, not be there for your children or not be there, you know, in the future.

Dr. Williams [00:24:22]:
And so, it it's really an important decision, and It's hard it's getting harder and harder to kind of parse, you know, who's being honest and who's not.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:24:33]:
Let me I wanna tell my girls because I always like to tell them what I'm hearing, what I'm seeing, and why why we're even talking about this. One of the things that I've heard, that's happening down in Florida at these you know, you'll I call them chop shops. At the chop shops is that there's 1 surgeon who you're meeting and who is selling you the surgery, who's telling you that they're gonna be the one doing the surgery. But then when they roll you into the back, it's not. That surgeon gets the surgery started, but it's not him or her completing the whole procedure. And The I heard that from, like, techs, surgery techs who are, like, rotating in the room, and they're telling that they told me The corners that are being cut because when we talk about pricing and the price difference, it does not make sense that in one place, a BBL cost 15,000 or more. In another place across the country, it costs 3,000. Like, where is the price? What is this huge price difference? Where are the corners being cut? I understand why the plastic surgeon Or the higher price is because we're taking into account all these different types of fees.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:25:47]:
Right? Hospital fee, Anesthesia fee. All of these different fees that we're adding onto our quote. At these surgical facilities that are I call them the chop shops, they're not Having all of these additional fees. They're doing your surgery in their in their office, in the back room somewhere. Sometimes they don't have anesthesiologists. Sometimes it's the surgeon doing the surgery doing your anesthesia too. Sometimes they're cutting Cutting corners by reusing vials that are one time use. They're I've heard from texts that are in the room that there's still lipo Fat on the floor beef when they're rolling in the next patient because there's not enough time in between to really clean the room.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:26:30]:
And those are things that a patient would never know. A patient would never know that.

Dr. Williams [00:26:35]:
There are some and, Navia, again, I think you you you're really calling out a lot of things that that are The darker side of of kind of what happens out there. And one of the things patients can really do is, you know, when a patient is looking for a particular service, You should see the doctor, like, before like, you know, when you go to the office, you should be having that conversation not with a patient coordinator. And, again, Navi, I'm sure you're very good at your job.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:27:00]:
But I'm not the doctor, and it's always you have to get with your doctor.

Dr. Williams [00:27:04]:
Right. And so it shouldn't be the desk person or the patient coordinator or the nurse, it should be the surgeon because no one else is gonna be able to explain, you know, what the plan is and come up with the right The right course of action for you. And then secondly, the surgeon you're meeting should be with you the whole surgery, you know. You know? And, again, sometimes, you know, the when they're putting the dressings on or, you know, the PAs or nurses are just kind of getting the drains adjusted Fine. You know, sometimes we're we're checking out the next patient. But for the critical portions of the surgery, the surgeon should be there the whole time. It should be the surgeon that you meet, and you should meet that surgeon. You shouldn't meet them the day of surgery because just like both of you said, when you're meeting that doctor for the 1st time, there's a lot of things in your head.

Dr. Williams [00:27:49]:
You haven't had that chance to say, okay. Here's my 2nd chance to talk to this person. And I didn't ask the 1st time, but here is what I'm gonna 2nd time. Those multiple meetings are really important because meeting doctors, it makes people nervous sometimes. And so, those are big warning flags if, you know, if you're Just talking to someone on the phone who's like, yep. I'm gonna book you for surgery, and you'll meet the doctor the day of woah. That is a major, major warning flag. And then, Again, we definitely have some concierge services.

Dr. Williams [00:28:16]:
We definitely because, you know, I'm a I'm a known name, I'm the president of ASPS, we definitely have people who kinda fly in, sometimes, but those patients need extra consideration and extra coordination about their postoperative care. And it has to be something that's talked about in advance that we have a plan because, what we prefer is we prefer patients to be here so we can see them, and we can I can make sure my PAs, my nurses, and myself are seeing these patients to get them through the process safely?

Mavi Rodriguez [00:28:44]:
Absolutely. I think that's really important. We always talk about the importance of following up with your surgeon, Especially when you're starting to see something that you're like, this does this looks a little different. That's the that's when you need to go, hey. Hello, surgeon. Let me send you a picture of this because it kinda looks different. Because to you or even something that you might not even notice, Your surgeon might pick up in your follow-up or in a post op appointment and be like, hey. This might bother you later on down the line.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:29:13]:
Let's go ahead and address it. For example, a dog ear, which we know dog ears happen sometime. Some surgeons don't get them. Some surgeons get them all the time. It happens.

Dr. Williams [00:29:23]:
Everyone gets them once in a while.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:29:27]:
See. So when you're but when you're doing your follow-up appointments and surgeon sees it. He's like, alright. Let me fix that. So that's the importance of those post op appointments because you're seeing your surgeon, but your surgeon is Seeing you and checking everything on you and making sure that you're healing right, that you're headed in the right direction. So those post op appointments, you guys, please Do not skip them. I know y'all do. I've been there.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:29:51]:
I've been listening to you say, oh, do I have to come? It's 3 months post op. I feel fine. I know. I know y'all are trying to get out of it.

Laura Alexis [00:30:00]:
Because you're so so we have, like, 2 sides. We we wanna be able to show that there are board certified plastic surgeons within A 45 minute hour radius to the patient so that they can be more inclined to make their post op appointments and all of that. But really, we were founded because of, our first practice had 70% out of state patients. And we're like, how do we Can extend the care that we wanna give them when they're all the way across the country. And so being able to partner with the The patients in a way and the surgeons in a way that their protocol is continuing to be enforced once the patient is home, We have seen that make a huge difference. And also, the patients are different. You know? They're different with the surgeon than they are with their Nutrition coach or mental health coach or concierge wellness coordinator. They they tell them a little more things than they would tell their surgeon because they're always, like, Oh, you know, he's so busy or she's so busy, and we don't wanna bother them.

Laura Alexis [00:31:01]:
And we have to tell them all the time, like, they want you if there's something wrong to bother them. It's not a bother.

Dr. Williams [00:31:08]:
Yeah. Again, Laura, I I think it's I think it's a really, really great point. And I I think, again, what you've built is, You know, it extends our capabilities. It it it extends us being able to take care of patients safely. And I think as long as there's that connection between The postoperative recovery team and the surgeon, and as long as we're always available to you, and that you're that conduit for patient information, You know, super, super positive and I think really, really powerful for patients. Absolutely.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:31:40]:
We love it. I Laura and I have been Hand in hand at trying to see how can we make this the best experience for for all of our girls, all of our clients, everybody that is on their plastic surgery journey, like, how can we make it as easy as possible to help them stay safe And still have amazing results that change their lives and catapult them into the next next, level of their life. I wanna talk touch on something that you said earlier, doctor Williams. You said that people are realizing that surgery is actually the next step in Self actualization, I really would love for you to touch on that.

Dr. Williams [00:32:20]:
Yeah. You know, the most powerful thing that we all have is control over our own bodies. And the and, again, I'm saying that as a black man, whose, ancestors didn't always have control over their own bodies. Right? And so, It's obviously a very personal thing for me, but, it's really empowering for patients. So I I I I remember, a story of a nurse that I I worked with For literally for over a decade, I I've known her, and she was an ER nurse. And and every once in a while, someone you know, be a dog bite or some child would fall off The bed and cut their lip and, like, doctor Williams, you come in. We've got one for you. And I'm like, yeah.

Dr. Williams [00:32:55]:
Of course. I'll I'll come in. We'll take care of it. And she was always, like, one of my favorite nurses because she was so positive and always there for the patient. And, you know, she was just a really great person, and then she kind of left, and I I'm doing less ER stuff kinda busy with everything else, and she called me and said, you know, I really think I wanna have something done. And I'm like, oh my gosh. Yeah. Of course.

Dr. Williams [00:33:17]:
Come in. And so She came in. We did a mommy makeover, and she was very happy. And she came to me and she said, you know, I didn't know that I deserved to feel like this. I I didn't know that it was okay for me to seek this for myself. And I was like

Laura Alexis [00:33:35]:
You're gonna make me cry.

Dr. Williams [00:33:36]:
Yeah. It was just so so powerful. And I was like, you know, the ability to align how you feel on the inside with how you look on the outside It's super super powerful, and it doesn't mean that you should chase every trend and fad and whim, but the ability to Troll our own bodies and our own destinies in that manner is just super, super important, and and that's one of the things I'm I'm really passionate about.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:33:59]:
I love that. That's so beautiful, doctor Williams. That's such a beautiful story. And I I talk about these transformations On the show all of the time because myself I talk about myself and how my surgery, gave me the confidence To be able to even launch my show and believe that I was worthy of having something to say enough for my my girls to listen or That was such a huge part of my, upgrade.

Dr. Williams [00:34:29]:
Yeah. And we're coming from a time where I I think people, in 1 ear, they're hearing, well, looks don't matter and, you know, Don't be shallow, and this isn't that important. But in reality, that's really not how human beings work. And and, you know, we are actually made to care about appearance because we're social creatures, and that social, Connection is really, really important, and it doesn't mean that you should do things because the world wants you to or because on that fashion magazine that you were walking by, the Grocery store said that you need to have these measurements. Absolutely not. But there's a self confidence that comes From aligning that inner appearance with the ex exterior appearance. And and so that's really my passion, and that's what I'm sure your guys' passion is for people you interact with as you're spreading your message.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:35:22]:
Absolutely. Actually, one of the main, reasons or one of the things that have really aligned me with Laura and the Pap Recovery System was I was I have phone calls, every day and I talk to women from across the country. And I get to hear Their stories, some successful store a lot of successful stories, a lot of botched stories, a lot of I wish I had found you before, A lot of those type of moments where they're really looking for information and, another part of that, Those conversations with me talking to women who are post op surgery and are experiencing mental health, Post op blues, but it's stay it's lasting a little bit longer. And I actually had a patient that I was 6 months post op. She was not seen in the mirror what we were seeing in her results. Like, it was just She still didn't feel beautiful and sexy. And I sent her over to Laura for, mental health coaching and I was so excited To receive a letter from her a few weeks later telling me how empowered she felt and how amazing it was to be in a community of women who supported each other and really sought after each other to just care for each other and try to empower each other in these, In these journeys, in these moments where you can feel kind of lonely, you can feel like, am I the am I being vain? Am I am I, You know, being dang. The word

Laura Alexis [00:37:03]:
Superficial or something

Mavi Rodriguez [00:37:04]:
like that.

Dr. Williams [00:37:06]:
Yeah.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:37:06]:
Yeah. Am I being am I being too much?

Dr. Williams [00:37:08]:
Yeah. And all these things I've said in the negative parts about the Internet and social media, that's one of the positives. Right? It allows, You know, these communities to form and to reinforce positively each other and and to support each other, You know, through the whole journey, and and I think, again, as a plastic surgeon, we are very, very conscious about Screening people and about supporting people afterwards, and a lot of that is, you know, making sure that people are in a good space mentally, and they have the support systems around them. But we're not as good maybe as a counselor who does it all the time. And so These types of systems, like, you know, again, what you've created, Laura, is is really critical because it augments what we're able to do. And what it does is it means that our patients get better results. They're happier. They're safer.

Dr. Williams [00:38:00]:
And and so And, again, I give both of you a lot of credit because just like in Myspace, there are people who are kind of doing it the wrong way. They're definitely with things that, that are not doing it the right way. And when I look at the fact that you you have mental health, you have nutritionist, you have kind of all these pieces together to help support the patient through their journey. I know that you're doing it the right way and and so again, I I kind of applaud, kind of those things you put together and And we should work more closely together. I I I I have no idea why it's been so long since we've really kind of had these conversations, but we should do a lot more together. So I think I think what you're doing is great.

Laura Alexis [00:38:39]:
Absolutely. I agree. And one thing I wanna touch on really quick that you said that went, ugh. You know, as a black woman, My ancestors have not always had control over their bodies. And so when I see my women, my demographic being, You know, herded like sheep to the slaughter to these not, you know, to these not, you know, board certified plastic Surgeons, it it gave me even more of a fire to just give more education on why you shouldn't just do it based on likes, or views, or follows, But really dig deep into research. And if you don't have the time for it, or because you're working 3 jobs to pay for the surgery, which maybe we should talk about that. You know? No? Then then hire someone who can do it for you. And and our goal is only to make Have moms and and daughters and wives and go back to their families after having an amazing surgery experience.

Laura Alexis [00:39:38]:
And As great as the surgeons, board certified plastic surgeons can be, there's no way for you to know that this particular patient went through childhood trauma that Being on that table is gonna trigger. And so we've been that's why we decided to patent our recovery systems because of those fake systems that are coming out So that we can cease and desist that tale when the time comes.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:40:08]:
I wanna touch on an, on a point that both of you guys have brought up. And, actually, I really wanna hear about your experience, doctor Williams, I saw that you were the 1st African American to graduate from the Yale program, plastic surgery program. How was that experience for you?

Dr. Williams [00:40:25]:
Yeah. You know, again, I look at all these things as as they're they're both good and bad. The the it's an amazing honor, to been the first. It's an amazing honor to be the 1st African American president of the American Society of Plastic Surgeons, but it's also sad. Right? I mean because it's 2023. Yeah. ASPs has been around for almost a 100 years, and and that seems like a long time. But, you know, we have to take all of these things one one step at a Time and, you know, I'm obviously very, a very strong proponent of diversity and and making sure that, People are heard and people have equal access, you know, but it's my job to be a good surgeon to everybody Yeah.

Dr. Williams [00:41:07]:
All the time. But I do find that mo that women are are also generally not heard in health care. And so, you know, Again, as a black male, I would definitely have an affinity towards those struggles. But women also, it's just it's just it's amazing the times that, I've seen or read about or talked to colleagues or talked to patients. So they've gone into, you know, an internal medicine doctor and say, hey. I've Got this, this, and this, and and the doctor turns to the husband and says, well, you know, what do you tell me about her symptoms. I'm like, what? You know, the patient is right there. And so when we think about diversity and equality and equity, it's not just necessarily a racial thing.

Dr. Williams [00:41:53]:
It can be, it can be a Geography thing. Rural areas tend to have less board certified health care providers of any type. It can be, You know, what gender you're born into or what gender you identify with, women tend to be discriminated in health care in all honesty. And if you look at The results, and if you look at the outcomes, worse than than their male counterparts for the same issues. Well, why is that? You know, that's that's that's something that when people say, oh, well, DEI has gone too far and diversity is, you know, is too much. It's like, let's start with the basics. There's still a problem. And, you know, and I'm not saying that that every part of society has to slot into these demographically appropriate numbers, But there have to be relative equivalences, at least in terms of outcome when people go to seek for care.

Dr. Williams [00:42:42]:
Otherwise, we're missing something.

Laura Alexis [00:42:43]:
Yeah. Would you would you say that if we were to look more at the best person for the position, Rather than, like, because what at Pop, we're extremely diverse. From all over the world, different color shapes, everything, you know. And, I didn't do that on purpose. I just we my we were looking for the best person, the best qualified person. How do you think that they're gonna be able to do that in healthcare? Like, is there enough Coming through in the next generation of diversity to be able to do it that way? Or is there a need to be an education on those who may be interested in this career To force diversity for the generations to come?

Dr. Williams [00:43:31]:
You know, it it's a great question. And I I think that Anytime you have kind of this large societal, issue that affects People at at multiple levels and has an incredibly long cultural history and then is ingrained in ways that we probably don't even fully understand yet. I think it's challenging to say, well, here's the program that we need to institute to make it all better. What I think is more important And probably a better part of the solution is just like we're doing today, each and every one of us just has to have a conversation and has to Recognize the value of all of us. You know, and it's hard. It's hard to sometimes say, you know what? I am gonna say something. I, you know, I I saw that. That seemed kinda weird.

Dr. Williams [00:44:19]:
You know, let's just have a conversation about it. And and I think and the people have done that to me, and said, hey. You know, you said this. Is that what you really meant? I'm like, you know what? That was insensitive. And it's not about, You know, again, there's a lot of criticism that people take things too far, or people don't give people the benefit of the doubt and just immediately are looking For that clickbait or that kind of, like, you know, I I just want a chance to just, you know, I caught you. You know? Now I'm gonna say something about it. I think when it comes from a good place, when you're like, look, it's a small planet. We're we're all here together for, you know, a relatively limited time because lifespans are short.

Dr. Williams [00:44:57]:
We we just have to support each other, and, I I kinda go back to the fact that we all have more in common with each other, especially in the United States. We all have more in common with each other than we have differences. And so it's about listening to the other side, and and some of my best friends are people who, You know, really have very different political viewpoints than I do, and some of the best conversations we have are when we're actually sitting down and being honest with each other. And it's not necessarily about changing someone's opinion, but it's about understanding. Because if we see each other as people and if we understand other people's perspectives And not say, well, it's my job to change what you're saying. A lot of times those that progress that we're all looking for comes naturally.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:45:38]:
That's beautiful. I because I 100% agree. I agree with that. So, doctor Williams, if our girls wanna come see you, where can they find you?

Dr. Williams [00:45:47]:
Yeah. And so, again, we're in Northern California. We do, work with people from around the country. I do I'm a general cosmetic plastic surgeon, meaning that I do kind of from head to toe every part of the body. We're known for body contouring a mommy makeovers, breast work, but we do face lifts and things like that too. We can be found online at Tri Valley Plastic Surgery, because I think, plastic surgeons have to be on social media to kind of combat some of it. You can also find us at Tri Valley Plastic Surgery or I'm surgeon in black. That's my my Instagram.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:46:22]:
Oh, I love that. Yay.

Dr. Williams [00:46:26]:
And and like I said, we're really looking to kind of continue to partner with innovative, people that support our patients. So, you know, hopefully, Laura and I will be able to kind of connect more in the future and and, become a resource, for the people that you guys are serving as well too.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:46:42]:
Laura, where can our our audience find you if they wanna come see you?

Laura Alexis [00:46:46]:
Yeah. So you can find this at pop recovery systems.com. You can also find this online at pop recovery systems. And we've also extended to start bariatric patients going through skin removal and major body contouring. So I love that that's what you do. Like, body contouring that you guys specialize in that because we have A wave of patients that are looking for bird board certified providers with our help. And our goal is to align, not with every Board certified plastic surgeon. But with the few, because, unfortunately, there are only a handful in each, you know, Region that are open to expanding.

Laura Alexis [00:47:25]:
Because it's new. It's new. Having something like this is new. And I know surgeons are very protective over their patients as they should be. But I love that we can expand on What the surgeons are trying to do because you can't be everywhere at once, but Pop Recovery Systems is expanding so that we can be. So you can find us on Instagram. Find us online. And if you ever have any questions, you can always DM, and we look forward to working with you, doctor Surgeon in black.

Laura Alexis [00:47:53]:
I love that. I was like, okay, surgeon in black.

Dr. Williams [00:47:57]:
Can I can I ask you guys 1 one last question? Sure. What do you guys think of Of the semaglutides and this kind of medical wave off, we are seeing a massive wave in that. And I think that that, You know, we we've started offering it to our patients, and we found it to be really, really positive. And, again, we're kind of thinking about Parts of the population sometimes that don't get heard as well. We especially wanna start, you know, offering those services to to those types of of patients, because, again, Weight loss is one of the things that everyone has struggled with, and it's, you know, when Oprah comes on and says, Well, maybe it's not all diet and exercise. Thank you.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:48:42]:
Finally. Great day diving. Tell us the truth.

Dr. Williams [00:48:45]:
That's great. And and so, how are you what do you guys see the patients that you're interacting with? Are are they looking for those types of things, or how are they finding access to that? Because, Again, that's the that's the whole thing. It's like, oh, I'm getting my drugs from Mexico. I'm like, okay. Are you really I mean, like, it may be labeled as that, but it it May not be. And and so are are you guys finding patients that are seeking those solutions too?

Mavi Rodriguez [00:49:09]:
I actually am. I'm seeing a lot of Patients but also, surgeons' offices who are offering it as a solution for their patients because sometimes, and we talk about this on the show, when somebody comes see you for the 1st time, they're not at the right weight or they're at a weight that's a little bit too high for to do surgery, elective surgery safely. And I feel like those people have an answer. Like, now they have an answer because they can actually start working towards getting to their goal weight so they can have the surgery that they wanna have. So I'm super excited about it. I've seen a lot of patients around me who have had amazing results, Surgeons who have been on their semaglutide journey losing tons of weight and just bringing it into their practices and using it as a tool. So I think it's amazing. I'm super excited to see it.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:50:00]:
Yeah.

Laura Alexis [00:50:01]:
Yeah. I've actually used it myself to get to my goal weight for my surgery coming in Feb on February 26th. And, you know, one thing that it has to be very Careful when the patients are using it is their nutrition.

Dr. Williams [00:50:14]:
Yep.

Laura Alexis [00:50:15]:
That is very specific. So we actually created a system just for that Specifically, because you do have to up your fiber. You have to make sure you're taking a prebiotic. And, because I found that through my own I was like, why is my digestion like a little different? But I started working with I was like the guinea pig. But we think that it's amazing because Had I not had that regimen with the, assistance of semaglutide, I've just specifically used Ozempic, I wouldn't have met my goal weight to be able to have my mommy makeover, which I deserve. And I wouldn't gonna let, you know, that weight. But at the same time, You know, I love the sumaglutide because not everyone is in a obese range where they have to have, like, a bariatric surgery. But like Phentermine, you know, that's not really where it's at for its own reason.

Laura Alexis [00:51:09]:
So I love that these injectables are Becoming more accessible. I just think it's important that the surgeons that are are offering it are also offering some kind of Comprehensive plan to make sure that they're doing it the right way. 100%. Because you can still do it the wrong way.

Dr. Williams [00:51:26]:
100%. And, You know, again, this is the 1st class of drugs that actually works. I mean I mean, you know, I'm not saying Phentermine or Metformin or other things people have been I think they they they have helped people, but this drug works for almost everyone. I mean, it is amazing. You know? And this is really just the 1st generation. Like, the Generation 2 drugs are gonna be out in the next couple years, and they're they're gonna be even better. But, Lord, to your point, yes, there has to be a system. There has to be nutritional support.

Dr. Williams [00:51:54]:
There has to be some behavior modification because you don't wanna be on these medications forever

Laura Alexis [00:51:58]:
and Right. Right.

Dr. Williams [00:51:59]:
Drop them the effect to bounce back. And so We should talk more about connecting

Laura Alexis [00:52:03]:
We're gonna talk more. I'm gonna start in the. Okay? I definitely am because It's it's growing and even I'm not sure if you know this, but weight watchers just bought sequence. You know? So but still the person who's like Like, for example, I have what I told Mavi, I have what's called reverse body this month. Okay? I see Something I see Beyonce in the mirror every time. Okay? So so I'm not gonna go to, like, a weight watchers. Right? Because in my mind, I don't see myself as obese. There's millions of patients just like me.

Laura Alexis [00:52:40]:
So having them available in a plastic surgery office With a comprehensive plan, it will allow you to expand on so many levels as a practice, but also offer more solutions to your patients. So I think it's super cool.

Dr. Williams [00:52:52]:
I love it. We're we're just.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:52:56]:
That can be for another episode. Alright. That's a whole hour episode on

Dr. Williams [00:53:00]:
its own. Your We're taking it over.

Mavi Rodriguez [00:53:05]:
There the semaglutide, I think, is a whole a whole hour in itself because it's been Such an amazing tool for women who are really looking to get towards their goal weight. And even sometimes without surgery, they're Maybe just losing a 25 pounds will get them to where they wanna be, where they're like, you know what? I don't even need surgery. And now I've learned how to eat so I can keep it off, And now I'm just gonna continue working out. And so what I want our audience to know is that it's not always about having surgery. You can do other things to, Make yourself feel better eve and just healthier.

Dr. Williams [00:53:41]:
Yeah. And as a plastic surgeon, like, you don't have to have plastic surgery to feel good about yourself. And and, again, you know, You should hear that from the president of the American Society of Plastic Surgeons. You know, we wanna be there for people who who want it, and we wanna make sure it's safe, but You can be completely self actualized, self empowered, and feel good about yourself without surgery. And so, I guess so I it sounds like we have a part 2 of this

Mavi Rodriguez [00:54:03]:
Yes. We have a part 2. We'll have to do a part 2. So I you guys, stay tuned for part 2 of this episode because semaglutide Seems to be the modern wave of weight loss, and I think we should really deep dive into it, into the different types.

Dr. Williams [00:54:19]:
That's what's gonna change the world. I mean I mean, it it's one of those things. It's almost like AI. It's like, oh my gosh. This is gonna make a massive difference in society and the health

Mavi Rodriguez [00:54:29]:
I love it. So we'll leave we'll leave off on that note. And For the next episode, we'll definitely bring that on. So thank you guys for coming on the show, and I will see y'all