Cold Water Podcast
Cold Water Podcast
Richie Lee
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Richie Lee shares his testimony and talks about life as a dad.
Transcript
00:00:00 Nicola
I would like to welcome Steven Jenkins to the Coldwater podcast.
00:00:04 Nicola
Hello Steven.
00:00:05 Stephen
Hello, thanks for having me.
00:00:06 Nicola
It's OK I I just want to ask how did you get to know Jesus as your Lord and saviour?
00:00:14 Stephen
It was a long time ago.
00:00:15 Stephen
A journey of faith, it's quite a long journey.
00:00:20 Stephen
I wasn't brought up in a typically Christian home.
00:00:24 Stephen
Which surprises a few people and my parents were good moral, moral people, and but I wouldn't say it was a traditionally, you know, Christian upbringing.
00:00:35 Stephen
But my first experience of God, UM.
00:00:40 Stephen
Not that I.
00:00:41 Stephen
Can remember much about it was when I was about two months short of my second birthday.
00:00:47 Stephen
Christmas time 1969.
00:00:52 Stephen
I I was born a man with a a very rare bone complaint and my my bones were all very brittle.
00:01:03 Stephen
The soft spot on my head and had not healed and I my parents were told that I would never walk and had to be carried everywhere and I understand that they had to get rid of most of the furniture in the home.
00:01:19 Stephen
'cause I couldn't run the risk of banging my head and doing serious brain damage, so this was the state that I was in and Boxing Day.
00:01:29 Stephen
The 1969 I was taken to the home of a Christian lady and a pentecostal Christian lady.
00:01:37 Stephen
Uh, who's been a great friend of the family for for many years now?
00:01:42 Stephen
And when I was there that evening with with my with
00:01:47 Stephen
With my family there was some young men there who were getting ready to go out onto the mission field.
00:01:53 Stephen
And they saw the state that I was in.
00:01:56 Stephen
And very simply that evening they they laid hands upon me and said, well, let let's pray for Stephen and let's let's pray that God will do something and they prayed for me that that evening.
00:02:09 Stephen
And I I'm led to believe that the very next day I started to take my first steps and you and knew instantaneous healing, which certainly got the attention of my family and got my attention.
00:02:23 Stephen
Because really from that moment I was aware of a supreme being.
00:02:28 Stephen
I was.
00:02:29 Stephen
Where there was someone out there.
00:02:31 Stephen
And it led really to, uh, a long search for for God.
00:02:36 Stephen
I didn't know the terminology.
00:02:39 Stephen
As I said, I I didn't go to church.
00:02:41 Stephen
I I didn't know the terminology, but I knew that there was something more.
00:02:46 Stephen
I went through school and I I remember at secondary school being very interested.
00:02:52 Stephen
One day, when given a Gideons Bible in assembly.
00:02:56 Stephen
Yeah, and we were given a New Testament and I don't know what the other kids did with theirs, but I I I remember taking taking it home.
00:03:05 Stephen
It was a good news version.
00:03:08 Stephen
And sort of the age of 13, 14.
00:03:10 Stephen
I guess actually reading the Bible.
00:03:12 Stephen
Yeah, for myself and underlining even and underlining certain passages.
00:03:19 Stephen
That that Jesus.
00:03:21 Stephen
Uh, Jesus made and I I.
00:03:25 Stephen
I really was searching for God my my sister then started to attend church and she was taken to church by this lady in whose home I received my my healing.
00:03:39 Stephen
So she was taken to an Assemblies of God Church.
00:03:42 Stephen
Uhm, and really started to enjoy it and uhm, I was approaching.
00:03:49 Stephen
I guess the age of 16.
00:03:50 Stephen
I probably had just turned 16
00:03:52 Stephen
and my sister invited me to a meeting, a church service.
00:04:01 Stephen
UM, wasn't in a church, but it was in a football stadium.
00:04:07 Stephen
In Bristol, where I'm from, the Ashton Gate, Bristol City ground because that week a man called Billy Graham and Evangelist from the United States was conducting some meetings.
00:04:15 Nicola
Right
00:04:22 Stephen
And I decided to go out of curiosity.
00:04:26 Stephen
I was a big football fan, so going to a football stadium was a bit of an attraction as well.
00:04:32 Stephen
So I went with her on the opening afternoon on the Saturday. This was now in 1984 what became known.
00:04:41 Stephen
As Mission England and.
00:04:42 Stephen
Billy Graham traveled the length and length and breadth of the United Kingdom for several months, and I went that afternoon and was was completely blown away.
00:04:56 Stephen
20,000 people were there in this football stadium and I was attracted by the singing. I was attracted by the the testimony that was given and really by the people I went along with, I was very attracted by by their lifestyle.
00:05:16 Stephen
And then when.
00:05:16 Stephen
This man stood up on a platform and I could see him.
00:05:21 Stephen
In the distance.
00:05:22 Stephen
In the middle of this football pitch, Billy Graham, he preached, I guess, for about 20, 25 minutes, but it was as though he was speaking just to me.
00:05:34 Stephen
Yeah, and I responded that afternoon didn't understand everything.
00:05:40 Stephen
I still don't understand everything and but I responded and said
00:05:46 Stephen
God, you are the one I've been looking for.
00:05:49 Stephen
Can you do something with me?
00:05:51 Stephen
I was about to leave school and I had no job prospects.
00:05:56 Stephen
I didn't do well at school.
00:05:58 Stephen
I particulary like school and I didn't know what I was going to do with my life and I said God if you're there, do something with me.
00:06:07 Stephen
And take my life and and make it glorifying to you.
00:06:13 Stephen
And and I went along to every meeting actually, not just the first meeting.
00:06:18 Stephen
I went along to every meeting and I was completely blown away.
00:06:22 Stephen
I felt I wanted to respond every time the appeal was given.
00:06:25 Stephen
And I just.
00:06:26 Stephen
Knew this is what I was was looking for and that then set me.
00:06:31 Stephen
On a sort of a long.
00:06:33 Stephen
Journey that was, you know 37
00:06:35 Stephen
years ago, and.
00:06:38 Stephen
When I joined the church an Assemblies of God Church and I
00:06:44 Stephen
guess never really looked back.
00:06:46 Stephen
I felt a strong call to the ministry.
00:06:48 Stephen
And I’ve gone on from there.
00:06:50 Stephen
Really.
00:06:51 Stephen
You know the joy.
00:06:52 Stephen
Is that my parents found Christ in latter years and other cousins have come to Christ, so it's a bit of a God breaking into the whole family, really.
00:07:03 Stephen
Which was
00:07:04 Stephen
wonderful, a wonderful thing so.
00:07:06 Stephen
That was how I found the Lord.
00:07:09 Stephen
Many years ago, yeah.
00:07:10 Nicola
Yes, that that's a lovely testimony.
00:07:13 Nicola
It's it's.
00:07:13 Nicola
It's amazing and just yeah, the the the toddler just transforming into
00:07:19 Nicola
You know you’re a lecturer
00:07:20 Nicola
And you know, Pastor, and you've done all these
00:07:24 Nicola
All these wonderful things.
00:07:25 Nicola
So God is really, really used.
00:07:27 Nicola
You and is still using you now Stephen
00:07:29 Nicola
and so a really beautiful testimony.
00:07:33 Nicola
You've written a book called Tongues of Men and Angels
00:07:37 Nicola
Would you like to tell us
00:07:38 Nicola
abit about that book.
00:07:39
Yes of.
00:07:40 Stephen
Course, uhm.
00:07:43 Stephen
As I said, I I've I've been a.
00:07:44 Stephen
Lecturer I I went on and.
00:07:47 Stephen
Really the t
00:07:48 Stephen
Rest of the story is that I
00:07:49 Stephen
failed all my.
00:07:49 Stephen
exams at school and and had no purpose and.
00:07:50 Nicola
Right, OK?
00:07:54 Stephen
And God found me a job and I.
00:07:57 Stephen
Uh, I went then to university study business and felt a very strong call to ministry went through Bible College.
00:08:04 Stephen
Then I did a Masters degree and went on and did a doctorate.
00:08:07 Stephen
So what gave me a real desire to study I I found a subject I was really interested in.
00:08:14 Stephen
I suppose and and.
00:08:17 Stephen
I you know I was a lecturer.
00:08:19 Stephen
On the faculty of.
00:08:20 Stephen
Massey Hall Bible College 18 years altogether.
00:08:25 Stephen
Uhm, and had the chance to teach
00:08:28 Stephen
some wonderful subjects
00:08:29 Stephen
and after being at Mattersey I went on to become a missions director for a wonderful charity called 1 by 1.
00:08:40 Stephen
And now I'm I'm mainly itinerant writing and traveling, and submissions work, and that sort of thing, and I, I guess, really over the last 10 years.
00:08:50 Stephen
I've had in my mind.
00:08:52 Stephen
UM, about about five books that I've I've.
00:08:57 Stephen
Sort of been sort of swirling around in my.
00:08:59 Stephen
Mind and I I.
00:09:00 Stephen
Wanted a chance just to write them but never.
00:09:03 Stephen
Really had the chance I was.
00:09:04 Stephen
Busy with other things and during lockdown that that affected all of us.
00:09:10 Stephen
I had this wonderful opportunity to actually put pen to paper and and write and over the course of about 14 months I guess.
00:09:15 Nicola
I don't.
00:09:23 Stephen
I I had the opportunity of writing five books, yeah, and they just flowed really and the first book I I did right was, as you mentioned, book a little book and called a tongues, Tongues of men and angels available on Amazon.
00:09:39 Stephen
They are actually all on Amazon.
00:09:42 Stephen
And this was.
00:09:43 Stephen
Born out of a curiosity I had with the gift of speaking in tongues really from my.
00:09:51 Stephen
Early days of being in a Pentecostal church
00:09:54 Stephen
And hearing utterances and tongues and being fascinated.
00:09:59 Stephen
By by these utterances and the interpretations given, and then being baptized in the spirit a little while later as a teenager, and speaking in tongues myself, and then becoming a Pentecostal pastor, encouraging it in churches.
00:10:16 Stephen
Then having the opportunity to study.
00:10:19 Stephen
really studied the subject at masters level.
00:10:23 Stephen
I did a dissertation on speaking in tongues.
00:10:26 Stephen
I've really been fascinated with it and various aspects, and so I I worked at this book.
00:10:34 Stephen
Uhm, I just over.
00:10:36 Stephen
A year ago now hopefully are very easy to read book, but it tackles certain areas such as.
00:10:44 Stephen
How should tongues be used in the life of the believer? Privately.
00:10:49 Stephen
How should tongues be used publicly in church?
00:10:53 Stephen
Uhm, are they a real
00:10:57 Stephen
earthly languages have the potential to be understood.
00:11:01 Stephen
Or are they heavenly languages or?
00:11:05 Stephen
You know quite what?
00:11:06 Stephen
What are they?
00:11:09 Stephen
That sort of thing, is it the evidence that someone has been baptized in the Holy Spirit and?
00:11:17 Stephen
So I I.
00:11:18 Stephen
Looked at various.
00:11:18 Stephen
Aapects of that and it
00:11:21 Stephen
I understand it's a book that could be.
00:11:23 Stephen
Read in in an hour.
00:11:24 Stephen
And a half.
00:11:25 Stephen
One timed it and they said, I read.
00:11:27 Stephen
This in an hour and a half.
00:11:29 Stephen
And so it it's hopefully that easy to read, but it's designed in such a way as to sort of really be studied as scriptures to look up.
00:11:39 Stephen
And at the end there's some FAQ as well about this whole area of speaking in tongues, which I you know I personally believe
00:11:50 Stephen
is often misunderstood and misused, and you're on my travels.
00:11:57 Stephen
It's various churches at
00:11:59 Stephen
home and abroad.
00:12:01 Stephen
I I tend to see this gift not used very much in the life of the church.
00:12:08 Stephen
And and I I sort of look at that, why I think that is and really encouraging, especially Pentecostal churches.
00:12:18 Stephen
And Pentecostal believers to all believers actually come to to rediscover or discover for the first time, this wonderful gift that God is made available.
00:12:29 Stephen
To all true believers.
00:12:31 Stephen
Yes, all spirit filled believers have the opportunity.
00:12:36 Stephen
Uh, maybe not to give a message in tongues in the church, but certainly to use it in in their personal lives.
00:12:44 Stephen
Paul says he who speaks in tongues edifies himself, and I I learned all of emphasis on that in my book that actually the gift of tongues, private use of tongues.
00:12:58 Stephen
Can edify us and build this up.
00:13:01 Stephen
You didn't say you will feel edified, but you will be edified, yeah?
00:13:07 Stephen
Something happens to us.
00:13:10 Stephen
And you know, I've heard of ministries that have been radically changed by people that such as Jackie Pullinger and I read about her.
00:13:20 Stephen
In Hong Kong.
00:13:21 Stephen
Uh, she's decided to speak in tongues 15 minutes a day.
00:13:26 Stephen
Yeah, and it revolutionized not just her life at but her ministry
00:13:32 Stephen
And in the midst of very discouraging and challenging ministry situations, she felt that she had this strength.
00:13:41 Stephen
Really that came just by building herself up in faith.
00:13:46 Stephen
On a regular basis, so it that's something that I sort of look at in the book, and it's really not, not.
00:13:52 Stephen
Hopefully an academic book.
00:13:54 Stephen
Yeah, it hopefully it's a readable book and helps us all to rediscover or discover for the first time.
00:14:03 Stephen
This wonderful gift that is often misunderstood.
00:14:07 Stephen
and misused, and I think sometimes when we misunderstand something or
00:14:14 Stephen
Uh, we see it misused.
00:14:16 Stephen
Yeah or abused we we tend them to steer away from it and not not use it instead of trying to understand how.
00:14:25 Stephen
use it.
00:14:25 Stephen
Properly, we tend to go to the other extreme and and not use it at all, which I think is equally equally wrong really so.
00:14:35 Stephen
It's a book to help us.
00:14:37 Stephen
To rediscover it and hopefully use it in our own lives and see our own lives and our churches revolutionized.
00:14:44 Nicola
It
00:14:45 Nicola
It really helped me it.
00:14:46 Nicola
Opened up my spirit around you straight away.
00:14:48 Nicola
That it, you know it was.
00:14:49 Nicola
It was helpful, but it's something that I don't.
00:14:51 Nicola
Do much of.
00:14:52 Nicola
Is praying in tongues and I do have that ability to do that?
00:14:56 Nicola
I used to when I first became a
00:14:58 Nicola
A Christian
00:14:59
Right?
00:15:00 Nicola
But it's something that you sort of like busyness of life gets in the way.
00:15:05 Nicola
And that to me, is the biggest, it you know.
00:15:09 Nicola
I would lean on people to pray with me in English, but I generally don;t
00:15:14 Nicola
And I, I think it does the.
00:15:15 Nicola
culture of the church uses tongues, then you don't feel as
00:15:22 Nicola
different when you are playing in tongues, so I think there's a
00:15:26 Nicola
Little bit of.
00:15:26 Nicola
That as well.
00:15:27 Nicola
So thank you for that book I have read.
00:15:30 Nicola
It's great and you not want to keep as well so.
00:15:33 Nicola
Wanted to lean on so thank you.
00:15:36 Nicola
You've also written from Pentecost to a Pentecostal movement,
00:15:41 Nicola
Yes, would you like to talk about that?
00:15:43 Stephen
Of course, yes.
00:15:44 Stephen
Thank you and.
00:15:45 Stephen
This is the second book I wrote.
00:15:48 Stephen
This was some really born out of a course that I talked at Mattersey and actually other places as well.
00:15:54 Stephen
I had the joy of.
00:15:55 Stephen
I've going to Nairobi Pentecostal Bible College to teach students over there on a couple of occasions and Africa school admissions in South Africa and various other places I've had the joy teaching
00:16:09 Stephen
church history and church history was a subject sort of thrust upon me when I was on the faculty.
00:16:17 Stephen
Uhm, the previous lecture lecturer was taken ill and had a stroke and I was asked whether I.
00:16:26 Stephen
Could step in and teach.
00:16:28 Stephen
A course be a level on church history and I'd studied church history.
00:16:33 Stephen
Undergraduate level and was interested in it, but I wasn't really an expert in it at all, so I I decided to take that on teach the course.
00:16:43 Stephen
And you know the the best way to.
00:16:46 Stephen
Learn is to teach other people.
00:16:48 Stephen
And so knowing I had.
00:16:49 Stephen
To teach this course on a Pentecostal history and church history.
00:16:55 Stephen
Uhm, really made me have to study the subject and I was just fascinated and greatly enjoyed studying it and actually greatly enjoyed teaching.
00:17:05 Stephen
the subject, and so I I turned my notes into a book, which again hopefully is not an academic book but just gets people into this whole subject of church history.
00:17:22 Stephen
The book deals with a 9.
00:17:25 Stephen
eras, 9 sections of church history are going from the day of Pentecost.
00:17:32 Stephen
AD30 right to the 20th century Azusa St. Outpouring in Los Angeles in 1906
00:17:40 Stephen
and a little bit beyond that and filling in some of the subjects in between.
00:17:47 Stephen
So I deal with the early church era persecution that
00:17:52 Stephen
they went through.
00:17:53 Stephen
I dealt, I deal with the medieval period, which was a very dark age.
00:17:59 Stephen
Uhm, but even in the midst of the the Dark Age, there was some some lights, some bright lights, and I bring out some certain characters that were shining lights for Jesus in a very dark age.
00:18:05
Yes, yes.
00:18:12 Stephen
I deal with.
00:18:13 Stephen
Uhm, Martin Luther and the the Protestant Reformation.
00:18:20 Stephen
People like Wesley and Whitfield with the great awakenings on both sides of the Atlantic
00:18:25 Stephen
And then leading through to the Azure St.
00:18:29 Stephen
Outpouring and and and what happened since then with?
00:18:35 Stephen
The birth of.
00:18:35 Stephen
The Pentecostal movement in the United Kingdom Assemblies of God Elim Apostolic Church, that sort of thing.
00:18:43 Stephen
So the idea of it really is.
00:18:45 Stephen
Is just to hopefully make church history interesting.
00:18:50 Stephen
Yes, I know for a fact when I've taught it, students have often thought that church history was a little bit boring.
00:18:59 Stephen
Looking at figures from the past and isn't.
00:19:02 Stephen
It the future.
00:19:03 Stephen
That we need to be caught up with.
00:19:05 Stephen
Why look at dusty figures from the past?
00:19:08 Stephen
What you know, that's all happened now and so.
00:19:13 Stephen
I I try to get my.
00:19:15 Stephen
Students and even through.
00:19:16 Stephen
The book to to realize that.
00:19:19 Stephen
Come, we don't live in history.
00:19:22 Stephen
We don't live in the past.
00:19:24 Stephen
But we have to learn from the past.
00:19:27 Stephen
Because we we often make make the mistake of recreating the wheel, and history does repeat itself, and I do believe, and it's hopefully warts of all account, not just the highlights of church history but also some low lights and some things that went.
00:19:45 Stephen
Wrong, and I think we.
00:19:47 Stephen
You need to be brave enough to tackle.
00:19:50 Stephen
Some of the things that.
00:19:52 Stephen
The the church has got.
00:19:53 Stephen
Wrong and we need to face up to that and learn from it.
00:19:56 Stephen
And hopefully I I look at that as well.
00:19:58 Stephen
uJst so that we don't make the same mistakes that that people in the past made, so it it's really just to take people.
00:20:09 Stephen
Perhaps people that.
00:20:10 Stephen
Don't know much about church history or very little and try and take the sting out of it.
00:20:18 Stephen
Try and make it accessible and read and we.
00:20:22 Stephen
Readable and hopefully to give them a taste of some of the the good bits of church history so that they can then follow that through and study it in more depth in.
00:20:35 Stephen
You know, in in the future so that that's the idea of it really.
00:20:41 Stephen
From Pentecostal to the Pentecostal movement and a
00:20:45 Stephen
Book I greatly enjoyed writing actually, and I I still enjoy teaching.
00:20:50 Stephen
Thing that that subject to people that
00:20:53 Stephen
want to know?
00:20:54 Stephen
About about history and I.
00:20:56 Nicola
Really enjoyed reading it and I got really excited about when we talked about the Welsh Revival and also in 1907 times backwards and came to Newcastle. So what I was excited about what, what would?
00:21:10 Nicola
It take for this to happen again for a revival to happen in in in these places.
00:21:17 Nicola
Again, you know.
00:21:18 Stephen
Yeah, yeah, that's.
00:21:19 Stephen
Certainly yeah, that's actually a subject that I'm, a question
00:21:24 Stephen
I'm asked quite a lot as.
00:21:25 Stephen
A as a.
00:21:26 Stephen
Historian, and especially when I write about revival.
00:21:30 Stephen
Uh, because we all we all want to see it again and when we read of people like Evan Roberts and and the Welsh Revival and we, we read about the great awakenings that broke out and and and Wesley in this country and we we do long to see it again and I.
00:21:50 Stephen
I think there's a.
00:21:50 Stephen
Few things that we need to.
00:21:53 Stephen
To sort of bear in mind really, when it comes to revival, 'cause there is this big debate on.
00:21:59 Stephen
On how much?
00:22:00 Stephen
Uh is of God and how much is of man and I.
00:22:06 Stephen
I just happen to take the the the the middle middle approach that actually it's both yeah and I don't know how much of 1 and how much of the other but I I do believe that God moves.
00:22:20 Stephen
Through his people.
00:22:23 Stephen
And even though he could do it on his own.
00:22:26 Stephen
And he builds his church through people and through very, very fallible people.
00:22:33 Stephen
People that make mistakes and that's something else that I've tried to bring out in the book.
00:22:39 Stephen
And we see.
00:22:40 Stephen
That through history.
00:22:42 Stephen
We see it actually in the pages of the Bible.
00:22:45 Stephen
And the New Testament and the book of acts. God using people who made mistakes and they they they were not sort of in the world's eyes very special people.
00:22:57 Stephen
Uhm, but there were people very open to God.
00:23:01 Stephen
And and and I I see a few sort of characteristic really of some of these people and I I noticed a few common denominators and it was though the the the people that God used were
00:23:21 Stephen
Prepared people.
00:23:23 Stephen
So before sort of, you know, revival.
00:23:26 Stephen
Broke out, God had to.
00:23:28 StephenPPrepare certain people and you know we we hear a lot about the Welsh Revival and and 880,000 souls that came to Christ and.
00:23:40 Stephen
You know an 18 month period, but
00:23:43 Stephen
But God had to.
00:23:44 Stephen
Work on the heart of a man, Edward.
00:23:46 Stephen
Roberts for years before that happened, yeah.
00:23:50 Stephen
And the same with William J
00:23:53 Stephen
Seymour and Thes Azuza street outpouring, God had to work on that man before it happened.
00:24:00 Stephen
Uh, you know God will will use, uh, prepared people.
00:24:04 Stephen
And and the.
00:24:05 Stephen
Such principles of prayer were very important, seeking God and and I, I think.
00:24:12 Stephen
These people not having.
00:24:13 Stephen
An agenda saying God.
00:24:15 Stephen
You have to do it this way.
00:24:16 Stephen
Be, even though perhaps you did it in that way in the past, but God.
00:24:22 Stephen
Do something more way and being very open to how God wants to to do it, because we'll notice that there are characteristics that are similar.
00:24:33 Stephen
Or then we will.
00:24:34 Stephen
Rival, but it would also seem that every revival was also quite different.
00:24:38 Stephen
As well.
00:24:41 Stephen
You know God's have got a creativity and we expect him to do it AB and C. But often God will do it XY&Z and I think when we sort put God in a box saying God 100 years ago you did it this way. Therefore you have to do it that way. In a sense we try to.
00:25:00 Stephen
We recreate history exactly, then that's when it will probably go wrong, and so I think we have to be open to God doing something his way again.
00:25:14 Stephen
But there are.
00:25:15 Stephen
There are certain things that we can do.
00:25:17 Stephen
I think prayer is very important.
00:25:19 Stephen
Seeking God with repentance, all that sort of thing.
00:25:24
Right?
00:25:24 Stephen
It is very important, but allowing God to do it again in His way and also in his time.
00:25:33 Stephen
And so I I do think it's both, I think.
00:25:36 Stephen
It is God God have.
00:25:38 Stephen
To do it, we cannot recreate it, but there are certain things that we have to get ready for.
00:25:46 Stephen
You know, in our own.
00:25:48 Stephen
Hearts, and in the life of.
00:25:49 Stephen
The church as well.
00:25:50 Nicola
Thank you, that's that's that's brilliant.
00:25:53 Nicola
Thank you so much for answering those questions.
00:25:56 Nicola
I really appreciate it, so I'll let you go now and enjoy your day.
00:26:00 Nicola
Thank you.
00:26:00 Stephen
Bless, thank you.
00:26:01 Stephen
Thank you very much.
00:26:02 Nicola
Bye bye bye.