#47 - Grace Maher - Part 2

Grace Maher, Development Officer at the Irish Organic Association, returns for Part 2 to dive deeper into the challenges and opportunities in Ireland’s growing organic farming sector.

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Transcript

And you mentioned the sort of the goal for 2030, and I looked at the National Irish Organic Strategy which was released, and I suppose that's a part of that, but knowing that you are kind of like you mentioned, and I know part of your role is to work with farmers and to bring, bring those farmers who are looking to convert to organic to, to bring them along in terms of education. So like with your feed on the ground and you're speaking to farmers a lot, what are you sort of hearing, you know, in terms of, from the strategy, which is all well and good to have a strategy, but in comparison to, you know, the actual real life, what's happening on a farm day to day in terms of conversion, like, what do you see as a sort of, is there a gap there? Or, you know, what are the challenges in terms of getting to that 2030 vision? Well, the strategy that you mentioned, Alan, was released at the National Plowman Championships in September and I suppose really like to put it in contact. That's the roadmap to how everything in the sector ties together and actually, you know, manages to achieve that 10% goal.

Because when you look like I've been involved in organics, as I said, probably for 25 years and it's a bit of a, when you start, it's a bit of a, you know, chicken and egg scenario. So like, the sector is so small that like, for example, you know, there may not be enough services to support the sector. So for a farmer might want to grow a specific variety of a crop and it's not available, so they have to import or, you know, some of the, some of the products that organic farmers are permitted to use, that's imported.

So, and in terms of education and training, everything like that. So. And it has really, I suppose, you know, increased and expanded in the last couple of years where it's a bit like the whole sector is getting behind organic and that needs to happen in order to meet that target.

Because for, for quite a long time, yes, you had pioneers who were driving the sector forward. But it's a lot to do, particularly if you're a producer on the ground, because obviously, you know, that's like time consuming in and of itself. So.

And I think it's fantastic to have that roadmap there in terms of the strategy because it just gives a little bit of a blueprint in terms of what needs to be done and everything needs to be done. Reality, we need to have, you know, more advice for far farmers on the ground and that's probably, you know, There has been a push to kind of get advisors, you know, involved in organics and getting them, you know, because obviously if a farmer comes in and they've got queries, be it on agronomy or whatever it may be on, they. They need somewhere that to go to actually be able to get some assistance.

So certainly would welcome the roadmap and the strategy, the national strategy. And again, that would be mirrored by European level across the member states. So each member state would have some, you know, a roadmap similar, specific to their own country and their own internal needs.

And it's also to highlight that, you know, I mean, some countries are at percent organic, so, so what they've done, like, you know, from an Irish point of view, we need to look at what works in other European countries and what we can do to help farmers here, because it's not like we need to go and reinvent the wheel. We need to see what works in our countries and what we can do here and at farm level for farmers. This was what I've seen in the last couple of years is, yes, there's been a huge increase of farmers coming in, but farmers are keen as well.

And I think, you know, for people who come into the organic sector, for a lot of farmers that I talk to, they've been thinking about it for a while, you know, so, and that's welcome because you don't want somebody who's going to jump in to, you know, organics because the organic farming scheme is open, which it currently is open, it opened last week and they'll close on the 9th of November. So you don't want people jumping into it just because it's another scheme to jump into it because you want people coming into organic farming who are going to stay in the sector and contribute to the sector. So, you know, on the ground there's a lot of people who are positive about the change.

They're enthusiastic once they come in, they want to get things right in terms of, you know, passenger inspection every year, like from the certification body. So they want to get things right, they want to sell their product as organic. And a lot of people are just interested in seeing how they can build up their soil health, how they can become good organic farmers.

And there always was a saying in organics that if you're a bad or conventional farmer, you definitely want to be. Be a good organic farmer. You do have to be organized, you have to pay attention in terms of husbandry.

You know, you've got to, you've got to be mindful of of, because you don't have, you know, the backup of going out and, you know, putting on a bag of, of fertilizer if crops are needed or whatever. So you've, you've got to kind of be on the ground, be observant, be organized. So, you know, I know sometimes with farmers who are maybe organic a while there's a bit of concern because all suddenly the sector has jumped from 2% to 5% and there's a plan to get to 10%.

But actually, you know, we need that groundswell. You need that like, like level of, you know, critical mass to actually be able to allow the sector to flourish. Because most people, when you explain about organic food, you know, they're actually really keen to support it.

And when you look at some of the research that is coming across, it's like younger people, they want to purchase organic food for the environmental benefits, for the health benefits, for themselves and in the wider context of sustainability and climate change. So farmers are keyed into that. And you do hear like, you know, I suppose again, I've been around long enough to hear like some farmers may come in because a scheme is open, like the organic farming scheme, as I currently said, is open now.

But, but farmers are actually really happy once they get their head around what they need to do to pass an inspection. Most farmers are really happy with the system of farming. I remember succinctly one farmer saying to me, you know, I came in because I really just didn't like spraying.

So I didn't like spraying. I lived near town, I knew I was near the water supply. I and I, you know, and he was crop, he was an arable farmer, tillage producer.

So he said, and I didn't like actually using chemicals knowing I was close to the water supply for the town. So those kind of comments from farmers like, you know, that they, they didn't, you know, they didn't particularly like using chemicals, don't want to use them. So once they, you know, and you kind of stress to people, look, you've taken on a new way of, a new way of farming, you know, it's not a good idea to go and develop a new enterprise immediately.

Get your head around what you need to do do and kind of look at it over the long term because as I said, the organic farming scheme is open now. So, so if people are interested, now is a good time to explore it. But again, it's something to look at for the longer term.

And you know, prior to, you know, the last couple of years, the level of fallout from once, Once people go organic is quite small, you know, it tends to be people have either retired or, you know, or whatever. So people don't come in, then go out, go back, you know, so you, you know, once people kind of farm organically, for the most part, they're actually really happy with the farming system. And organic farmers in the past have been really good to share amongst each other, you know, various organic practices.

There's been loads of farm walks and there's always been a very kind of, I suppose, helpful mentoring kind of informally in the sector to kind of encourage people in and wants to come in if they have queries, you know, to actually assist people on how things are going. Because it's in everybody's interest if you come into organic farming and you do it well and, you know, it benefits the sector right across the board. Yeah.

And I'll say just, I spent two weekends with yourself, Grayson, in a room full of farmers with no farming experience. And I learned more about farming and organic farming. But I also sort of saw that, that sort of knowledge sharing that you're speaking about how, you know, I suppose farming can be sometimes can be a very individual sort of, you know, stays.

The knowledge stays within families and it stays within sort of those little pockets. And I think seeing that sort of room of people, you know, sharing ideas and it's. It's really encouraging to see that not only for organics, but also for farming in general, sort of to see that that's kind of, if that's what organics is, then it's just another benefit to it.

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, the community among organic farmers has always been strong, you know what I mean? So. And, you know, nice.

So that's good to encourage that as well. I suppose it's. It's up to everybody to encourage it in the sector because again, you know, you don't want people coming in and kind of not knowing what they're doing for a couple of years.

You know, it's always better to find out. I'd always say to people, look, when you come into organics, find out in your area who's organic and, you know, see if you can meet them for a cup of coffee or whatever, ring them up and see what's going on. What did you do in distance or.

Or, you know, or how do you overcome this issue and are like, in the case too, of your certification body, I'd say, you know, ring the Irish Organic association if you have any careers about your farm. I mean, they can't give out advice we're not, you know, permitted to do that, but they can certainly say, well, in, you know, most farmers would do X, Y or Z in that instance. So like, certainly don't feel, I think to people, the key thing is once you come into organic that you're on your own and you're out on the farm on your own.

You've got to make these decisions decisions. But you do need to reach out into the network that's there. And the farm walks are a really good way to do that.

Yeah. And our farm work was, was a good day as well, so would encourage that. So I suppose just conscious of time here.

So I had three quick fire questions that I'd like to ask. We'll, we'll see how quick fire they are. But first of all is what when organic food you can't live without God? I'd have to say maybe wheat for, for, for bread, because I'm doing at the minute organic.

Okay. Very practical. I like it most high on milk.

With kids in the house, you go through organic week, like it's snow tomorrow. You need cow at the back. But we don't have.

Seriously. No, it's okay. So what's the most rewarding part of working on inorganics? Okay, so I suppose it, you know, it is that you feel like maybe you're doing something right for, for the planet.

For if you're producing good quality food that doesn't, isn't harmful. And it's also practical. You know, it's something, sometimes I think it can be.

You can easily be overwhelmed, you know, if you, you know, start to delve into, into environment, in the environment, you know, and what we do for future generations. Where do you start? You know, the small. For me, certainly working in the organic sector, I think at least I feel in some way I'm doing something practical that can help to sustain the planet for future generations.

Like that. Yeah, that's good. And then finally, if you could change one thing about how people think about their food, what would it be? Well, I think, you know, cost isn't always the, you know, what the price says.

You know, when you're seeing if it's a cut price or something, there's a lot of hidden costs, you know. So I think if people, I know people are time poor, I'm time poor. We're all time poor.

But to actually, you know, give it a try and cook a few, you know, buy some organic food like, you know, preferably directly from the, from the local producer, cook it up, you know, and I think this Thing in Covid came up, you know, the term scratch cooking like, and it was kind of amusing to a lot of us who would always cook from scratch. You know, I live in the countryside. You don't have the option of just eat or whoever you may call or delivery.

So you know, you actually buy in ingredients and, and cook for and, and it is actually, you know, economical. I was just chatting to an organic farmer actually the other day about the whole concept of, I think it came up the cornflake day, you know, in terms of recessions and things like that and the cost of food. But actually, you know, and people were saying, you know, they didn't have enough money to buy a box of cornflakes for, for their, their kids, you know, to feed them.

And actually you will get a bag of oats, organic oats, cheaper, you know, than you will box of cornflakes. So sometimes we need to just think about the context of and it will be more nutritious. So you, you know, you need to think about.

Well actually if you buy direct and buy less and maybe plan things out a bit better, you can eat healthier. So it's not always just about the cost. You know, that's, that's on the shelf.

I was at the, the Irish Organic association. We had our AGM in September. And I know this is not necessarily quick fire, but somebody from the urban Co op said, you know, research that she was looking at said the top three food selling items in Ireland now food slash drink are Coke, Leukozade and Tato.

Wow. So that's not usually hugely positive in terms of what people are eating. So I think we need to have a whole kind of change in terms of education about food, you know, and, and prior and priorities.

I know people are, you know, money is always an issue, but I think I saw the other day that was 18 is what people spend on food now comparable to 1980s, so which was about 30 something percent. So 18% is still a lot. But you know, at the same time we need food to survive.

So I think we need to kind of prioritize what type of food we are purchasing. Yeah. And I think from my point of view, like I, I suppose going to the, the organic farming sort of course really opened my eyes to the, the true sort of price of food.

And, and since then I've sort of spoken to a lot of people and that's why I sort of wanted to bring on the podcast because I think food is, is something which we sort of take for granted in this country especially. But like to, to hear those are the top three sort of brands that are eaten. And if you think of our history of food and our history of sort of producing food and you know, we talked about the market, the farmers markets earlier and how there's farmers markets around the country.

I was in Morning Skipper in there a few months ago and that was incredible to see sort of a huge sort of car pack full of farmers from the local area. And I think people just as you say, have to be a little bit more conscious in terms of, okay, look at the economics of it, but also look at the sort of the options that we have and just kind of spend a little more time thinking about their food and that's just kind of going to the shop and picking up the first thing you see and it's just taking that step outside yourself and thinking. Okay, I suppose thinking long term as a consumer and a producer as well.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean and, and you can, you know, this thing of, you know, anyway, I won't get into this, you know, to. But you, you know, you can eat well supporting local producers on, you know, on a would.

Yes, yeah, absolutely. You know, it depends on what your are like, you know, so sometimes you just need to as you say, go down to maybe go down locally, see what is being produced and see what you can do with that rather than, you know, like 85% of. Of food is purchased in supermarkets in Ireland.

You know what I mean? So it's like that's the main outlet but there are other options out there if, if you get a chance to, to explore them, you know, 100%. Okay. Grace, it's been great learning again about your journey and I suppose learning about how organic sort of work and it's great to share that as well.

And thanks for your time coming on podcasts. I really appreciate it.