0:00 Hello I'm Reese and I'm so glad you decided to Adventure With Me today!On the adventure with me podcast we look at creations and experiences in Art, media, music, and even video games to explore exactly why we think the way we think question what we believe and learn something new~
And today we're going to be taking a look at Afong Moy. Barnum & Bailey's Chinese Lady. The first ever recorded or documented Chinese woman to come to the United States and this was in 1834. Hello I'm Reese and I'm so excited that you decided to adventure with me today~
So first, HAPPY NEW YEAR! And this video seemingly comes out of left field because my last Youtube video, before this Podcast... was "KFC Love Simulator". Which was a KFC dating sim. Audio Flashback to Reese's Last Stream:"I might be developing feelings for you TOO but i'm concerned. I can't let anything get in the way of my dreams". "No you can have your dreams and have me!!! I'll support you colonel sanders"~
Reese reading Twitch Comment: "I have Kentucky Fried Feelings For You" I cant."
1:26 Audio Resumes to Podcast: Um... and that was my last stream. So yeah, here we are talking about the first Chinese lady in the United States. So before I drop you into that story. A couple months ago, I did a deep dive on Bo Burnham's "How The World Works". A part of his last Netflix Special. And I LOVED the comments that i got on that video. We talked a lot about international relations, politics, American politics, identity politics.And we had really constructive discussions. And, that's something that I wanted to come out of my content. And so i want to start doing more things like this!
It's really important to visit these historical moments and learn how they impacted the lives and interactions of the people not only back then, but how the history still affects us today, and how it's still relevant because it's shaped the lens in which we see the world. So before I get into that this is episode one of the full Adventure With Me podcast! You might be familiar with the existing Adventure With Me minisodes that are uploaded onto YouTube,or from my gaming playthroughs on Twitch. So, to visit the notes for this episode see images of Afong Moy and take your own deep dive adventure, visit hewworeese.com to explore more podcasts youtube minisodes blogs vlogs deals and more! continue adventuring with me reese on hewworeese.com
2:56 What makes Afong Moy's case really stand out to me is that it crosses lines between capitalism and exoticism. Afong Moy is a name that was given to her. Afong Moy was not her own name. Before Afong Moy joined the Barnum & Bailey circus she was quote unquote what they say "discovered" by Francis and Nathaniel G who were the carne brothers.
They were in China purchasing Chinese goods when they [The Carne Brothers]...from their words.... met Afong Moy's father. They arranged a system where she would go to the US and help them sell their goods.And their father would collect a fee. She was to be returned in two years. What we do know, is that she was not returned within that two-year period and she stayed in the US for 17 years. The newspapers stopped talking about her and she basically disappeared because there was no more public record of Afong Moy, so we don't know if she went back we don't know if she ever went back to her home or if she ever wanted to.Or what her story was at all.
So the Carne brothers were in China purchasing Chinese goods to sell in America. And the exact story is not clear, but their promotional materials explained that they reached an agreement with her father. And he was described in the Carne brothers promotional materials to have to be a distinguished citizen of Han ancestry residing in the suburbs of canton. So, 17 years seems like such a long stretch of time and it definitely definitely is. Her perceptions of her performances varied widely within that 17 years based on Chinese and US relations.
5:15 And I'm gonna break that down here.... So phase one of her career: When she first bought off the boat in New York from China Afong moy was thought of a promoter of goods with the Carne brothers. With the Carne merchants Francis and Nathaniel G, They used this curiosity that American citizens had for the exotic spices and art. They just wanted to promote that by showing people a person who comes from that same land. So, she was at this point as much as an equal in her career as she ever would be because she was just like a [regular] promoter.
They [The Carne Brothers] took advantage of that curiosity and that positive perception of Chinese goods and Chinese people, using this stimulus that came from marketing China trade goods with the exotics. So, they played on, and controlled, and mediated the public's consciousness of her visual difference. EG: Her bound feet, her Chinese clothing, her accessories, to promote her goods. As a person, as a Chinese woman, she was used to sell Chinese goods by the circus.
So what they would do, is they would put Afong Moy in a literal Chinese box. Like, it would be ornamented with Chinese paintings Chinese food, chopsticks, tea. Anything that was crafted in China that was shipped from China to the United States they would put in this box with Afong Moy in order to sell those products. So, as a person, she was used as an exhibition. And for me at first, that was so difficult to get my head around. But, if you kind of think of like a Barbie in a box, with the things around her... like her purse, her shoes, and all of the things that would make you want to be like a barbie. That is what they're trying to sell to you.
Afong Moy was accompanied by a man named Atung who was her translator. What's interesting is that it can't be actually confirmed if he was really translating what she was saying, or if he was just making translations based on what people would want to hear, in order to [make people want to] buy the products in the box. In order to get people to buy the tea to buy the spices and to buy the art. It's also really easy to look at more historical cases through a modern eye and think like "Oh we have more information now. We can hop on a plane, and go visit somewhere if we're curious, we can get online and research something!"" But, the thing is...that with any art, media, or even when you travel, and where (ever) you decide to go... You can't see everything, you can't experience everything, and you can't learn everything.
7:58 With the modern eye, with having unlimited knowledge at our fingertips too... like it's humbling. though the information is at your fingertips there are still going to be situations that you don't understand people's points of view that are completely foreign to you and looking at Afong Moy's case her being was commodified to sell spices and art and then you look at the way celebrities are treated today based on their image they're used to sell a product and it's like is it is it really that different because people are still used to sell goods still used to influence You know it's even in the job description: "influencer". Someone as a person encapsulates something that other people want to replicate, and so they buy the products that the person says either makes them happy...[what] makes them look the way they look... [or what] makes them feel the way they feel and it's just interesting because some things in art and influence aren't so different from more than 100 years ago talking about these moments in history are still interesting and important and they can still give us lessons that are useful today.
9:55 I guess, just succinctly put a person's existence a person's body or personality is still com-modified to sell goods that part isn't different in today's world think about the common phrases of an influencer um "sex sells", companies who use people's insecurities to sell makeup products Or the interesting phenomenon of body positivity kind of turning that around on its head and saying yeah be proud of your body but you should still use this product because we're telling you... to be proud of your body. Right? So it's it's odd. And perhaps the commodification is maybe more subtle if you're not looking for it but if you look in advertisements like it is still there.
10:47 Before we get into a deeper deep dive into this history of Afong Moy i want to preface this, her experience as the first documented Chinese woman in the united states is so unique and like any person's life it has so many layers into it so she experienced exoticism imperialism racism and although we want to talk about her history i don't want to paint her story as a tragedy or think of Afong Moy where she's only a victim when you're talking about something that happened in 1834 we only know the parts of her life that people wanted to share through newspaper articles and such so it's on a third person basis nothing we have is straight from her. So what we do know about Afong Moy is her performance. But it's important to remember that that's not all she encapsulates as a person or as a woman. And what we do know about her, is from the lens of the people who wanted to see her show. But her performance is not all of her life.
What happened to her may have been painful and tragic but it does not define her whole being. And her value does not end with the performative work that she did in the United States but we do have to talk about it in terms of how it affected popular culture and how it influenced people who did see her show her life did have influence. And I bring this up as a way to say that just like when we consume any type of art or media it's important to have a realization of the information that you're using and how you were talking about the art that you were consuming and what information you are using to talk about the issue at hand. And it's important to recognize that the historical information that we do have is limited and the information is majority from other people and not from her own voice. The letters, articles, scrapbooks, and newspaper articles are all available at hewwooreese.com in the source notes.
13:05 I think what makes it so difficult to talk about these historical moments even if you go into a situation with an awareness of your ignorance and still try to adventure through those moments as best as you can and discover things i think it can lead to really insightful discussions when people are willing to explore things in art, and be wrong, and be corrected.... And just have really constructive conversations. Which is something that you don't see a lot with conversations about art and popular media a lot of time you see people react based on outrage. You see people react based on fanaticism... and art is one of those awkward places where your intentions are independent of the outcome. And i think this this nuance of of art is something that i wanted to explore during this podcast. I feel like this is a little bit more difficult to explain in Afong Moy's case. But when we talk about things such as Bo Burnham special and i'm also going to be talking about squid game. I think it's a little bit easier because you have more information.
14:32 So a slight teeny tiny teeny tiny historical point... on china in the 1830s. So this was under the Qing dynasty, which lasted from 1600 to 1900 and china at that time had a really growing population and china's economic policy was really protectionist. Which means in this protectionist economy china was heavily restricted on trade so this agreement where they took a not only goods during this protectionist economy but they took a whole person they took a whole woman. With how protectionist their economy was it baffles me it really does. So western trade if done at all was restricted to the southern part of the Canton region. Where is called guangzhou today. During this time this is was like the first industrial revolution that was happening.
Both Britain & American merchants were looking for places to not only sell things but to produce manufactured goods. And that's something that...that even like rings a little bell in your head like oh the "made in china" thing that started in the first industrial revolution.In the scramble of the Britain *giggle* of... THE Britain -_- In the scramble of Britain and the US trying desperately to get those coveted goods, spices, tea, and silk from china... There was a lot of conflict because of China's protectionist policies. So, that's the economic background of that time. Chinese goods were really rare because they could only be traded in very little quantities... and on top of that to have the probably the only ever Chinese woman you will ever see selling those goods to you was the Carne brothers marketing move. So WHY were Chinese goods so popular? I was curious too!
I mean, of course, they're just different... um they look different because of the art right (eloquent) But, socially, Chinese goods were coveted because the paintings that were brought back were of dragons and serene~ People believed that's what china was like (allegedly) and they had no reason to believe otherwise, because they couldn't hop on google and google image Guangzhou or china or anything.
17:22 So they [The Carne Brothers] were able to like exotic and mystify this land [China]. It was socially thought of as a high-class art purchase and they liked the vibes that came with it, you know the serene and mystical imagery. So then, we have a Chinese woman being used for public entertainment. So when we think of public entertainment in the modern day, we see street performers in New York We see television screens (etc.) It's thought of as something that everyone consumes. Public entertainment isn't something that's really unique or set to one space. But in the 1830s, places of public entertainment were considered unruly and indecent. And so, there was unruly and indecent carnivals for people of lower class and then there was high class public entertainment like the operas the ballets.
And so what the Carne brothers wanted to do was set this kind of middle ground of entertainment.Not unruly entertainment, and not such high class entertainment. Something that was attainable to the public something that people wanted to see that they don't usually see. And that's where the market+ theater were born. In these type of curiosities or what they called "freak shows". Seeing something that you don't see every day... That's where this was born.
Americans in the 1830s at that time had an increasing desire for museums and other places called "saloons" where musicians would perform and that was something that was attainable to the middle class or even lower class Americans but that was safe and not deemed unruly. Economically, with the boom of the industrial revolution that was happening at this time, [and] with goods that were ready to be sold, and people who wanted to buy [them]. The Carne brothers really took advantage of this economic space. At this time, people were curious about Afong Moy. She was viewed positively because you know... why not? They could afford to go see her, they thought it [the experience of seeing Afong Moy] was different. They could afford to buy the goods, and they were fine with it at THAT point. But from that point, her image slowly started to deteriorate as the economy got worse during that time.
20:10 So, who was interested in seeing Afong Moy? Who went to New York city hall to see her? Well, interestingly enough... Do you know president Andrew Jackson went to see Afong Moy? I tried to look this up and I tried to figure out why. I don't know. I thought "oh maybe this could be fun". Because it could be like diplomatic or political?I...I i don't know. But in a newspaper, it said that he did do that. Out of the thousands who saw her, only 11 audience members recorded their commentaries in diaries, poems and letters and scrapbooks. Those are also available in the source notes. And those people were from middle or upper middle class. With the most elite being Andrew Jackson, one of the US presidents. So this is to say, that you know.... thousands of people saw her but we know little about her. Just because that's how information worked unfortunately in the 1830s. So the next phase of Afong Moy's life was her transition from more of a promoter of goods to that of a spectacle. Afong Moy wasn't limited to just having her show in New York city hall.She made tours with the Carne brothers.
This was around mid-Atlantic new England, even the south (of the U.S.), Cuba, and near the Mississippi river. This was documented by newspapers of the places that the Carne brothers went. So she was faced with ridicule, because of the difference in her race being a Chinese woman. During those travels around those parts of the country... This led to her disappearance between 1830 and 1840.
22:04 Now we have an eight-year period of time where nothing is written about her. And why might this be? So during this time, there was an economic depression in the United States. And if you remember, she started out really popular! People were curious, people wanted to buy her spices and then in american cultural and economic life... [the timeframe] placed her in the cross hairs of slavery, the native american removal, moral reform, and the this ambivalent attitude towards women. Which led to people thinking that there should be a paternalistic control of women. During that time... Coupled by the economic downturn... people wanted something to blame. Right? So, you see someone different, you see someone who comes from these pictures that are of the serene, and of these spices, and art (that you probably can't afford to buy anymore). They brought out their frustrations on her. They no longer had an interest... but like judgment and blame based on her differences. So that led to this type of disappearance during this time. We don't really know what happened to her, we don't know if she was supported by the Carne brothers at this time.
But it is thought that she was basically abandoned by the Carne brothers, because people didn't have the money to spend on going to these shows anymore. And unfortunately she wasn't profitable anymore. So this leads us to the next phase of her career, which is the resurgence of Afong Moy. And she returned to the stage in the late 1840s and 1850s. And this time, with PT Barnum : The Barnum and Bailey circus. The master marketer of difference.
23:55 So, Barnum & Bailey is synonymous with controversy. And there could be this whole independent Adventure With Me just on the Barnum and Bailey circus. But in Afong Moy's case, the Barnum & Bailey circus recognized her promotional value as a woman with bound feet, clothing, and they thought "Oh, Think of all the objects that we could sell!" They thought that they could use her quote "orientalist persona" and presence to make people be interested once again. Because after this depression in the economy, maybe people can afford to buy goods again. And thus, she's profitable again... so people unfortunately cared to employ her again.
Afong Moy was just brilliant, because she learned enough English to speak for herself at her shows! And although it was said that she occasionally required an interpreter, she could speak for herself, and her language skills were sufficient enough to interact with the audience. So, on stage, she provided evidence of her dissimilarity. If you can call it that. From her use of chopstick utensils, to the demonstration of religious Chinese rituals. So [through] her presentations, it's obvious that there are a vast difference between East and West cultures. And this gave raise to sometimes arrogant responses from the audience members, and from the public.
Chinese womanhood had different cultures as far as the clothes that she would wear. And her bound feet, which called forth contrary definitions from American womanhood. Her religious beliefs had her characterized as quote" a heathen". Her explanation of the Chinese emperor's absolute power and governance compared with the contrast of American republicanism and its emphasis on virtue and self-government & self-control, unfortunately gave a type of reinforcement to the notion of American progress at this time.
26:23 When such little is said or written about Afong Moy's life in America... The principal way to reach into her own narrative is through her sensory expression or her gestures or movements or posture and even her tears would convey the sentiment that lie beneath the few words that she could speak, and that were recorded. The observations of the onlookers provided descriptions of Afong Moy... like moments of emotion. She was described as extremely irritable and responded to unwelcoming contact with anger. That sometimes people even tried to unbound her feet which is unacceptable for her. She was more open to women unbinding her feet than men out of curiosity. Just her anger at those moments, just highlight how alienating it must have felt to be exotified in that way... just to make a living.
27:36 So, Barnum & Bailey cared about profits more than anybody else. So unfortunately, what they had on their hands was this irritable performer who's willing to stand up for herself, who's willing to make these boundaries with the audience, who is willing and able to speak to them in their own language about her experiences back home, and her government. And PT Barnum was like... "We like the money that she brings but we want a different face for it..." So, they brought the NEW Chinese lady, who they dubbed who Barnum and Bailey dubbed:The New Chinese Bhelle". So in 1850, Barnum arranged for miss Pwan Yee Koo who they dubbed the "Chinese Bhelle" to exhibit herself now in Manhattan, outside of the newly renovated Chinese museum. Which was used to sell Chinese goods. And they were to discard...So they they they ....didn't just discard her or fire her, they didn't just do that. They made this a whole publicity stunt. What they did was they wanted to discredit her. They're like, oh yeah.... she's the Chinese lady, but she didn't come from a fancy background. She was a poor Chinese lady who was sold from her dad for money!
And now we have the new Chinese Bhelle, so if you want to see a REAL high-class Chinese woman come see miss Pwan Yee Koo. And the reason that Barnum and Bailey circus did that was because even though the Carne brother's promotional material said she was from a high-class Han Chinese family, that wasn't recorded when she came here. So they were easily able to refute and discredit Afong Moy's entire career. And then unfortunately, after that we don't know anything else about Afong Moy. We don't know how she made a living for herself in the in America. Or if she somehow made her way back to China.
So after Barnum and Bailey basically sacrificed this lady who has given almost two decades of her life to you know the American theater, she was discarded because she was an older performer who was willing to stand up for herself. This kind of is a parallel to you know what happens nowadays as well. Women get older and they're discarded in the entertainment industry because there is something newer. And it's just really sad how that's still the reality when you think of New York entertainment.
30:34 So my closing thoughts about this, I think, are mostly given justice by people who study the theater. And people who study how artistic expression historically makes people have these gut reactions.
30:34 Edward Said remarked that Afong Moy served as a window to America's cultural perceptions of china. And so the beginning of her entertainment career must be evaluated in the light of what her American managers at that point the Carne brothers and Barnum & Bailey permitted her to convey.
It's really important to remember that when she first arrived to America what was conveyed of her being was what her American managers the Carne brothers wanted her to represent. They wanted her to represent this mysticism and this exoticism and something that people wanted to buy into.And despite the possible misrepresentations of Afong Moy's presence on the stage, it provided a really powerful portrayal of China that america hadn't yet experienced, and something that people wanted to buy into.
And so scholar Josephine lee said quote "The liveliness or presence of theater suggests an immediate visceral response to the physicality of race the embodiedness of theater is experienced or felt as well as seen or heard." Which is, succinctly put, the way someone looks it gives you a gut reaction... because of the things that we're taught, how we are taught to respond to things. So the theater basically doesn't let us forget that questions of difference racial difference concern a basic gut reaction when we see them and it affects the way we experience something, and our sensation when we see this art.
Afong Moy experienced the audience gaze and I'm curious to know what SHE thought and what SHE felt with that gaze. What did she see? And in this part of history I'm heartbroken that we could never know. And this is why adventure with me exists, to kind of look back on these things and see how we can interpret art, artists, and entertainers in a way that encapsulates not only how we see the performance...but how the performer feels as well. And this is why I'm also so interested in Bo Burnham's art as well. Because he's not only trying to portray an emotion, but how he got to that emotion. And how he feels as an entertainer.
Adventure With Me works to not only gaze at art... but to question, and ask, and discover. And to adventure! And try and interact with it. So thank you so much for adventuring with me, Reese! I hope to see you next time, bye. <3