Overindulgence can often seem like a good idea at the time, or may even be something that happens while running on autopilot. Inevitably, it comes with a side of guilt, regret and a whole host of physical discomforts.
It can be incredibly frustrating to feel like you aren't in control of your cravings or how much you indulge. So you feel shame, guilt and attack yourself for overeating.
In this episode, Keri and Dr Matthea discuss the four key stages to healing your overeating for good. If you want to release the pain and struggle from the battle of knowing that you shouldn’t be overeating, yet feeling unable to do anything about it, then this episode is definitely for you.
3:25 - “It's like we're on autopilot in those moments and we’re not even aware of it. We can't go from that to managing our urges 100 % effectively.”
3:40 - “Quite often we have to practice very imperfectly before we get to the stage of being able to do it really competently.”
6:38 - “It's a continuum. So you'll notice as you do this work more and more, you'll be at stage four, but you might notice yourself kind of backsliding into some other steps, and that's okay.”
11:51 - “Let's throw out this old rule book where I've gotta get the weight off real quick. Stage one is I stop judging myself no matter what I do. There is no morality in what is entering your body, period. So if we can stop judging you, once that judgment goes down, the load is lighter to keep going forward.”
20:51 - “The only way to know the manual is to remove the food. So remember if you're hungry, always go eat. But if you are not, then you do not know what's running the show until you get rid of it sometimes.”
22:48 - “You don't slip into old habits when you're intentional.”
01:50 - Keri tells us the first thing that happens when you start healing your relationship with food and stop overeating.
02:31 - We learn about the second part of the process of overeating.
04:00 - We find out what stage three involves.
04:29 - Keri shares the final stage in the process.
05:20 - Dr Matthea provides two observations that she notices with women when it comes to overeating.
6:38 - We’re reminded how the process is a continuum, and that backsliding is normal.
08:26 - Dr Matthea recaps the 4 key stages and discusses examples of when and how they might apply to people.
10:10 - Keri tells us what was most helpful for her as she was going through this journey as well as her clients.
12:25 - We discover how to tell the difference between emotional hunger and physical hunger.
15:10 - Dr Matthea and Keri look more in depth at the second stage of overeating.
18:24 - They discuss a listener’s challenge with ‘treat mentality’.
24:53 - They delve deeper into the third stage of the process.
Hello. Welcome everybody. Today we are talking about the four stages of healing, overeating, and I love this topic. I know we've spoken about it before, but I don't think we can talk about it enough, and especially if you are relatively new to this work, then I think this concept can help you a lot. You see, the problem is when we don't. Think about these different stages. What tends to happen with our work is that you start to become really painfully aware. Of the fact that you are still overeating, and this is the moment in time where those judgmental thoughts can come up. Like, I shouldn't be doing this. Why am I doing this? I need to resist this. So you try and use resistance, and then you're having a battle with yourself and none of that works. And it's like you know that you shouldn't be doing it. You know that you want to do something d. and yet you are not doing it. So this can create a lot of pain and struggle. So what we are talking about today is gonna help you release that pain and that struggle. There is no need for that struggle because there is a process that you will go through. It's a very defined process. We've seen that time and time again when we're coaching with women, and it tends to play out for everyone. I don't think I've come across anyone that doesn't have. So what happens when you start healing your relationship with food and stop overeating? The first thing that happens is that you get really aware of when you have an urge and you get really aware of the fact that you've just eaten. And what often happens is that it's such a habit loop. That it becomes really unconscious. Or it is unconscious. It's still unconscious, and you only catch it after the fact. Can anyone relate to that? Tell me in the comments, if you've done this, this is the first step, and then it's like, oh, damn, I shouldn't have done that. Why did I do that? So these are the types of thoughts that come up in this scenario, and this is very normal. It is the first step. It is a normal part of the process. The second step is, it's like you move back in time a little bit through all of these overeating, um, kind of episodes, right? So first of all, you catch it afterwards and you're like, damn, I didn't mean to do that. Why did I do that? The next stage is it happens while you are doing it. You get that awareness while you are eating. Now that is really uncomfortable cuz you're like, I should be stopping right now, and you don't stop. So that can feel very painful, very uncomfortable. And this is where we see a lot of judgment coming up with women. Like, I know this stuff like intellectually, I know what, why am I doing this? I can't do this. And we start to get all of those thoughts of failure and doom and disappointment. So know that step number two is normal and expected because we can't go from that place of having these subconscious things that happen without us even thinking about it. It's like we're on autopilot in those moments and we, we not even aware of it. We can't go from that to managing our urges a hundred percent effectively and going. I'm gonna sit here and I'm gonna make some space, and I'm gonna notice those urges doesn't happen like that quite often. We have to practice very imperfectly before we get to the stage of being able to do it really competently. Okay. Interesting. I even say that out aloud. Isn't that interesting? Is that I'm, I'm assuming that's one of your failure types of thoughts. Yeah, absolutely. So this can be very, very painful. Now, step number three, we go back further in time. It tends to happen before the awareness switches on before. Oh, I really wanna eat these cookies and dam it. I'm gonna do it. I can't stop myself. That's what tends to happen. So you know that it's happening, and yet you don't quite have the capability yet to stop yourself. You don't quite have the capability of using those tools to manage your urge, and so it still happens. So you do have that awareness, but it comes before. And then the final step is that you get really good at managing your urges, so you know that you really wanna eat that food and the urge comes up. And then you start practicing with the tools and you do it much more successfully and then you manage the urge and it doesn't happen as often. It might happen less frequently. It might be, um, you know, less intense. There might be less volume of food at the time. So you know, it will tend to tail off over time. You'll get better and better at it. That's usually what we tend to see. So know that if you are in any of these stages, it's normal and it will change. all you need to do is just keep going with the process. What do you think? Mateo? So I, I was muted here, but I was like sitting here like, yes, yes, yes. This is exactly how it goes. So I wrote down two things based on what you said that I see with women. So, number one, not giving themselves enough credit. Mm-hmm. So women sit there and, and, and let me know. Yes. In the comments. You beat yourself up because you think, well, I know this. And either when you're eating it, you're telling yourself, I know I shouldn't be doing this. So there's lots of like shutting and shame and all this kind of stuff. But then it's also. That you are progressing through, like you're not catching everything afterward. You're aware in the moment. You're even aware before, but you still do it. It's like stage two, stage three, stage four. It's like the final thing is where you're able to learn to manage it differently. That takes time. Really. That takes time. So number one, the not giving enough credit. Number two, thinking that you should be able to skip steps. And I wanna know from anyone on here live today if that happens, because everyone that we work with thinks I should already be at the elevated stage where I can apply all the tools and I'm really good at it. Why? Why? When it's been planned, when it's been done so long in a different way, why should it just suddenly change? What if there was, what if you knew this is okay? This is expected that as you're overeating it or as. Doing what you don't think you should be doing. Wouldn't it be great if you could tell yourself at that moment, oh, I realize that this is stage two. Like this is actually, they told me I was moving ahead if I got to this. Right. So to me, Carrie, how I've used this once we started to kind of, um, implement this, uh, personally how I've used it is, Oh, another thing I just wanna say real quick, it's a continuum. So you're gonna notice as you do this work more and more, more and more you'll be at stage four, but you might notice yourself kind of backslide into some other steps, and that's okay. So for me, when I notice, okay, I'm sitting here and I don't actually wanna be doing this, I'll remind myself. Okay, you've just kind of taken a step back here, but this is actually part of you healing that you're noticing these things, that you're um, gonna take different action in the future. So I remind myself you're not at the beginning. You're at three out of four. Like, that really helps me psychologically. I don't know if anyone's thought of doing it in that way. Yeah, it does help a lot psychologically. Absolutely, because I've, I've been on this journey for a while where I lost the weight and then, you know, I did the pregnancy weight and I've had different variations of things that have happened over time. And what I've noticed is that you do backslide sometimes, but sometimes there's scenarios that you haven't practiced this work in that come up. And like, if you have a circumstance in your life that creates a lot of stress or anxiety and you haven't, you know, kind of navigated that. with these tools, your brain might immediately go back to emotional eating at that point, and you notice the urges and you may not actually go from, you know, stage number four, where actually generally speaking, you're doing this most of the time might not be like, oh, well we start all over again, throw it all out. But actually in this one situation with this emotional eating trigger, you might go back to the place where it's like, Oh, hang on, I'm eating right now. Why am I doing this? You know, and then you can work your way back again. So it does tend to come up like that as well. And that's okay. It's a little bit like the tides. It kind of comes and goes a little bit, doesn't it? And you know, it's a little bit changeable, but as long as you keep applying the tools, it keeps working. Totally. So what I think might be fun here is, number one, if you're on today, let us know. I know we got someone that said they're at step two here. Let us know where do you think you're at. So again, step one is you've already overeaten, everything has happened, you're noticing it afterward. Step two is you are in the middle of eating and you notice, oh my gosh. And then step three is before I even do it, I notice that I don't wanna do it, but you still end up overeating and doing all the things. Step four is, I manage the urge, I figure out different ways to do it. So let us know where you're at, but what I thought might be helpful, Carrie, is if we kind of gave tips how to move from one stage to the next. Okay. So we're getting on here. So we're, I saw a three, A two, so we're seeing some different numbers popping up here. Hmm. So what's really great is a lot of you, when you listen, like you know where you're at at this. like if, like, Carrie, me and you, like I'm sure like you said, in certain scenarios we could think Yeah, I'm seeing a two to three. Exactly. Mm-hmm. like you can be transitioning, right? Yeah. Um, I feel like I'm at a one, two, and three at different times. Yes. I love that comment, And it's, it's what Carrie said, and I, I agree. Like for me, dinners were the biggest challenge in the world. Like everything else got cleaned up really quickly. For me, dinner's in the nighttime snacking, I had to really work through a lot of this. So like Carrie said, I might be a four a hundred percent of the time until 5:00 PM and then it's like, all right, here's where the real emotional work happens. Um, so I'm seeing here between three and four, depending on the day, I'm seeing doing better earlier in the day than later. Yes, same thing, right? So like all of us have the pattern and so we can work through that. It's actually usually quite predictable. Um, I've, um, I feel very weak on the four though. Yes. Mm-hmm. So, and I know, and that's another thing we feel scared to even say that. Yeah, I'm far, I'm far along on this journey. I feel pretty good. Majority of the time we feel scared to even say it because we're not perfect, but then we feel like we cannot give ourselves credit. Mm-hmm. I would see say, you know, majority of the time, where do you find yourself? Right. It's, it's not a perfect road. Yeah. So kind of knowing this, Carrie, what do you think? Was most helpful when you were going through this journey or just in general with clients that you see kind of mm-hmm. from stage one to two. So stage one is, again, you're catching everything afterward. It's always already happened. Stage two is it's during, during eating that you're noticing it. What do you think has been most helpful for people? Yeah. So when, when I was at stage one, and what I've seen for people is massive, massive kindness and compassion cuz we beat each, we beat ourselves up in these moments. We wouldn't beat each other up. But that's what I was about to say. And that's, that's the really interesting thing as well. It's like you could ask yourself, how would you talk to a friend in that situation that's trying to make these changes? Those are the kinds of things. you can actually say to yourself in that moment, so when you see that you've done it, and it's like you have these thoughts, oh, I've done it again. I'm, you know, this is never gonna work. I'm, I'm so terrible at all of this, da da da da da. Bring in that kindness and that compassion in those moments, in whatever ways work for you. You know? I think that's really, really important. Yes. And I want to, we're getting some really nice comments here that, that, that we give you guys some hope and joy. Yes. Listen, I wanna encourage, that if you're always, because this is a big thing I hear is I just can't get a grip on this. Right? It's just always after, after, after feeling like, like sort of you're trying to get up a gravel hill and you just kind of keep falling down. Right? This takes time. Mm-hmm. Okay. Like, I wanna plaster this. This takes time because remember, we're doing the forever plan here. We're doing a way in which you are figuring out what's actually going on in your life. So do not beat yourself up. If you need to be here for a year, it doesn't matter. All of this is irrelevant. Like, let's throw out this old rule book where I've gotta get the weight off real quick. It's like, stage one is like I stop judging myself no matter what I. there is no morality in what is entering your body, period. So if we can stop judging you, once that judgment goes down, then the, the load is lighter to keep going forward. So I just wanna to, to put that out there. that it's okay if step one, take two. Sorry, I went on a little bit of a ramp. Yeah. But I'm like so passionate about it. That's great. I love them Absolutely. And, and I think to add to that as well, you know, you've got the mindset work, you know, bringing in the compassion, but also, you know, if you want to have a look from a practical point of view, if you do find yourself landing here and you are finding it a little bit of a sticking point and it's hard to get past, maybe it's worth also having a look at. You know, are you over hungry? as well in those moments, you know, are you leaving your hunger a little bit too long? Yes. And then you get these really wild cravings. Or is it that you know, the blood sugar's a little bit imbalanced. So you are getting really, really big, you know, sugar withdrawal cravings because actually it needs to be more fat and protein. So there's some practical steps that you can do to balance your blood sugar that will help you reduce the hunger so that. that can turn down the volume, I think sometimes on our urges. And then once the physical side is taken care of, we can do the emotional work. So that's what we're looking at if you're stuck there. Yeah. So if you're in our membership, pillar one, look at the workbook. We have seven tips to help you with this. They're extremely helpful. I'm not gonna go through all of them here, but if you have challenges, bring in, in our members only Facebook group. And so I saw a good question here and I'm, I'm not catching all the comments, but it's a lot of the time I can't tell the difference between emotional hunger and, and physical real hunger. Mm-hmm. Okay. So again, we have videos and stuff on this, but I wanna just give you one. Quick tip here. I want you to think about what is a food that you have? Zero desire for? Big fat. Zero. For me, it's like boiled eggs, cheese, stick, apple. I'm like, I'm not seeking that out if I'm not hungry. Like we're, we're hungry when we eat those things. I wanna know in those scenarios, do I wanna, would I be willing to go eat that? If you are, I wanna say you're hungry. That's just a quick hack. We need zero desired foods. Are you willing to go eat it? What about you, Carrie? Like how do you Yeah, tell the. Yeah, completely. I think it is that it's al and it's always like it's laser focused. I find when it's emotional it's like, I need that chocolate, I need those cookies. It's not like, yeah, well sometimes there is a browsing in the cupboard, but it's very specific things that you go for. It's usually high sugar, high fat, you know, quick energy things cuz they're gonna give you a quick hit to change your emotional state from where you. You know, so if it's those kinds of foods, whereas if you know, I don't know, maybe you, you find that you are snacking on, you know, vegetables in the afternoon and dipping them in hummus. You know, maybe for you that's a physical hunger cuz you don't get those kind of cravings like that. So that's a really good way to tell the difference. For sure. I'm seeing you left another com. What's the zero desire food for you? Raw vegetables. Yes. Same here. I'm not going for the raw carrots and the, you know, it's all nice when it's cut up. Right. But I'm not going for it if I'm not really hungry. Exactly. It's such a good one. Exactly. It's a really, really good one. Definitely. And I love this other comment as well. We have the power to stop the shame with our thoughts. Exactly. Yes, exactly. It's all about what we are thinking in those moments. So there's a lot of emotional stuff going into step one. What do you think about step two, Matt, mate? So this is where we're in the moment and we're not able to. Yeah. Okay. So I have always a lot of thoughts. Number one, the, the compassion still remains that needs to be practiced here because I think the judgment is through the roof that we have of ourselves, and we say, I shouldn't have more, but we're, but we're doing that. So number one. Um, you keep the compassion going and this should now be a really great strong practice cuz you've done a lot of it before, but if you haven't and you're someone that's always catching it, right when you're eating, you, you keep doing the um, the compassion. I would say to, to break a habit loop. We need a pattern interrupt. And a lot of the time when once we start eating, our brain gets excited. There's a lot going on physically, all these kind of things. So I would try some techniques to break, to break the habit loop. So, Could you, if you're noticing it in the moment and you feel it's loving and it's kind, could you make put a pause in that meal? So for example, you know, for five minutes I'm gonna set a timer and just see, do I feel differently in five minutes? Do I wanna keep eating? But just creating a different scenario. We're not, um, we're not distracting, but we're just allowing your brain to come up with different answers. And this is where, you know, we've taught the compassion pause where you pause. and you ask yourself, what do I really need right now? You could use that as you're doing it. You could just say, I'm gonna pause just for two seconds. I'm gonna ask myself what I really need, and then I have the permission slip. If I wanna go back and keep eating it, I will go do that, but at least I start to realize I'm in control of things. This is the key. I don't care if you keep eating, but you get to realize I'm eating because it tastes good and because I'm just stuck in old habits and all that's going on, but doesn't make me more or less of a human or worthy. But I start to realize that I have more control than I realize. What about you, Carrie? Hmm. I love that. And I think, um, building on that as well, this is a moment when we can bring in some kind of positive thought, some kind of affirmation, but one that feels good and resonates. You know, something like, okay, this is changing. I'm learning. I call myself. This is brilliant. You know, celebrating those moments and knowing that actually I am on this journey and this is a normal step. So whatever you can do in that moment to really affirm. Yeah, I've done it again. Fair enough. So you can actually switch in that moment and pivot that thought through to something like, yeah, but I'm getting better at this. Yeah, but I'm learning, I'm getting better and better at this. I trust that this is going to, you know, progress to level three, that this is going to heal itself. All of those kinds of thoughts in that moment can be really, really powerful. Yeah. Okay. I wrote down those three, Carrie, cuz I think they're brilliant. So if any of you are listening, I mean the three that I pulled out, you tell me if Carrie said anything different, but I pulled out, this is changing. That is such a powerful one. And Carrie, you say it much more than me. I love that. Okay. This is changing. It's a normal step. Cause two, like again, the normalizing, nothing has gone wrong here. This is just part of changing things. And then number three, I trust it will progress to level three. I love it. And you know why I like saying that too, Carrie? Cuz it's like, oh, I'm not starting at the beginning. It's not a failure. It's like I'm like at the upper end I'm like trying to, trying to get on the podium at this point. You know what I mean? Exactly, exactly. I am moving forward. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Wonderful. We've got a comment here. I really need a sweet hit hit after the evening meal converted to 75% dark chocolate, one square or two. It bothers me that I can't let it go. It feels like a treat at the end of the day, especially if I did my food log, drank my water, and did my daily exercise. So the reward craving I have is really strong. I try sometimes have a bath as a distraction, but it's like, uh, a thought leach in my brain and I can't get beyond thinking about it until I eat it any. Ooh, that is a good one. Often when we get to the stage, when it goes down to that last little bit, and it's like a square of dark chocolate, that is actually quite a big one to overcome because it really is releasing like something that. Many people will tell you, actually, that's technically healthy. There's a lot of magnesium, there's lots of great stuff in there, you know? So I do think give yourself credit for where you are at because you've gone such a long way so far. You are at this moment where this is transformational. and you've got all that awareness. So you know, first things first, give yourself credit for that for sure. What do you think, mate? Have you got any thoughts in this situation? I know I've got a couple. Yeah. Okay. So, so I think what really struck me here that you said is that it, it feels like the treat at the end of the day, especially if I, if I did my food log, drank my water, but, sorry, what did you say here? But you feel like, um, You're really bothered by it, but it bothers me that I can't let it go, and I wanna know why. I think that's, that's an important thing. So is it that it's stopping you in the way of your goals or is it that you don't think that you should have that after a meal? Like, I'm wondering cuz really you could take this in a million directions and it, it matters because. Why is it a problem for you? I think that's like the main thing. So to me, like I could care less if every time after a meal I plan something. But I think what's bothering you, and let me know if I'm wrong, is that you don't actually need it, but you almost feel like compelled to have it. And so. I guess one of my questions is, can you experiment with what if I like just today, like we're, I'm not talking big goals. Okay. But just today, what happens if I don't have it? And you just start to minute, um, because I feel I shouldn't need it. Yeah. So. who is, who is making the rules here, right? When you use the word, shouldn't I just question like if you, if you like it, if you're planning it again, there's no problem with all these things, but I think for you, if you wanna experiment, I would just look at like, just today, what happens if I don't have it? What thoughts come up? Like, why do I feel so deprived? You know, like I'm the one making the rules, but what, like what's my brain? You need to know what the manual that's running here. And sometimes, guys, I know you're not gonna wanna hear this. The only way to know the manual is to remove the. So if you are not physically hungry, remember if you're hungry, always go eat. But if you are not, then you, you do not know what's running the show until you, uh, get rid of it sometimes. Mm-hmm. what do you think, Carrie? Uh, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So there's another comment here. Maybe I'm fr frightened I'll slip into old habits. That's interesting. So what I think is that this treat, treat mentality is a really interesting topic and, um, what I would question, because you've got an object, so let's just say it's like this, uh, post-it notes here. This is your chocolate and what your brain has attributed to this object in the world, which happens to be food, is that this is a treat. And so we can see that that's a label within itself. You know, it's just a piece of chocolate, and so your brain has made it mean something, and so it's worth exploring that and pulling that apart, first and foremost, but then also, I would suggest exploring. Why do you feel that you need a treat? You know, is a treat a good thing? Is a treat a bad thing? Um, you know, cuz it could be, I did some coaching on this with someone recently and what we came to was actually after a long day, she had this ritual and it did include food, but she loved having the ritual. So having that evening routine, it's like, it doesn't have to be a bad thing. You can treat yourself to putting your feet up. Maybe you want to intentionally watch your favorite show. Maybe you intentionally wanna have a bath. Maybe if it includes it for you, you might intentionally have that pick. Piece of dark chocolate for now, you know? But if you wanna experiment with taking it away, I, I think it's about seeing what that treat means to you. Why do you feel that you need that treat? And can it be done in a constructive and nourishing way? And if it is an escape from the day, what needs to change in the day so you don't have to have that reliever in the evening. So that's lots of thoughts right there. I hope that was helpful. But yeah. Carrie, what I wanted to say based on what you said, I love what you just said, and then one of the comments was, well, maybe I'm frightened, I'll slip in old habits. I just wanna caution everybody on this. You don't slip into old habits when you're intentional. So when you are sitting here, like this is why I'm like low-key laughing because you're writing plans and you're thinking about things. You're not slipping into old habits. Nice. So that's a lie that your brain is telling you. Like I just wanna say that like when you're being so intentional, things don't just slip in there and when they do, you notice them because you're shining a light on it 24 7. So I just want to like encourage you on that. Yeah. And actually it comes back to what we were talking about with step one because if an old thing happens, but you are being intentional, you are noticing it. That's a whole new ballgame that's completely different from before. You were living in a world of being on autopilot and maybe not wanting to deal with emotions at the time, or just being stressed and just eating on autopilot. This is very different this time around. So even if some of these eating habits are coming in at this time, it's a whole new thing you are doing and you are changing that pattern. Yeah. Does that help? That's, it's so good. And, and, and the other thing, Carrie, that we didn't talk that much about is like this, the, the, I say the little ends, like when you've come really far in your journey, if you're someone that's been doing this a really long time, sometimes letting go of just the last little emotional eat, you might have held onto that via thread because you're saying, you know what, well, everything else I can give up. But that little piece of chocolate, like that's, that's it, right? Like you still are using food in that way. And so now, now is the time when you get to cut that little. and you get to see what happens. Cuz that's the biggest, you said in the beginning, Carrie, like that's the biggest liberation. You cut so many things and now you're, this is the one holdout. It's the one freaking holdout. Yeah. I know for me at the moment, it's coffee. That's my thing. And I'm like, I love my coffee, but I know that I drink too much of it. Yeah. It's my last thing really at the moment. Yeah. Ugh. Yeah. So I have empathy for you. I know that what you are going through, it's not easy. We've, we've been there, we've done the work, we're doing the work with you guys, you know, so this is, yeah, this is, this is what it is. Um, so step number three, so you catch yourself before. but you can't quite stop yourself yet. You haven't built up that capability yet. Mm-hmm. this feels terrible. What do you think about that one, Matt? Yeah. This is, it's so funny. I feel like for, I feel like my answers are the same for every single one. Compassion. Compassion. Yes. But again, you are, you, you, you resist the urge to judge yourself that you know, but you're gonna do it. Um, I had a coach say a really powerful thing to me. I don't know, you know, when you get coached on things and it like burns it in your brain. So I remember, I think we had like, uh, cherry, whatever, some type of dessert, and I remember telling her, even like I knew I was gonna go do it. And she was like, well listen, you're gonna choose to go do that. And so she just gave me back the choice. And so one of the things I wanna just start to caution you is to start to build out the muscle that I really do have choice and agency here. And so this might sound counterintuitive, but we're here to scramble your brain a little. I wanna suggest if you are really in this phase that you start to say, yeah, I'm choosing to go. And you start to let your brain know that things are not out of control. And, and again, there's a million other ways, but that's the one sort of different tip I wanna offer today, is that you start to say, I am going to do this. I'm going to, instead of trying to stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. You give permission and you say, yep, we're choosing to do this. I understand this might not be the most supportive. Um, I know that I'm, you know, in stage three here, I know that I'm trying to work to four, but right now I'm gonna give myself some permission. What do you think, Carrie? Yeah, I completely agree. That's fantastic and I think, I wonder if we can pair it together. Cuz my thought on this and this, if you're in the membership, this is what we spoke about on the last coaching call with me and we've got a PDF document, um, no, it's a screenshot anyway in the members group about thought errors. So thought errors are the bugs in the code that have you. wanting to eat food in those moments that you don't really need to, you know, so they're the things like, well just one won't hurt. Oh, I'll start tomorrow. You know, this is gonna be okay if I just have a little bit. Those types of things. They will keep you stuck in this particular step. So you wanna be really aware, not only of the fact that you might be going to eat, but also of the fact of what's running the show in that moment of time, like just a little bit, oh, I deserve it. It's been a really long day. All of these things will keep you stuck in in point number three. And so I wonder if we can pair that with yours, Matt Mateo as well. So then, you know, you are actually moving really powerfully into step number four where you are really getting to practice those tools. And I think the other thing, the practical thing is here you are gonna get really, you are really practicing that. Um, The um, urge management tools that we teach, you know, so probably with the practical action as well. I think that's where you are starting to really implement these. I'm gonna experiment. Can I hold out for two minutes? Can I hold out for five minutes? Can I hold out for 10 minutes? These types of things, you know, and really giving yourself credit for the fact that maybe you ate less, even though you ate. Oh, you know what? I ate less. That's really good. I held out for 10 minutes. Wow. Go me those times. It will get you into step number four. Yeah. So we had a third, A third step to step three, um, would be to celebrating the wins, like you just said, right? Yes. Yes. So it's like you have the permission realizing you have choice, you're catching all the thought errors because by the way, that is work to like notice the dialogue that's happening in these moments. And also remember, we're not going deep with the comments. So when you say, I just want that, that's like a very common. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing profound happening. And a lot of you think, oh, that doesn't matter. Yes, it does. It does matter that you keep thinking, oh, I want that. That's what's motivating you. That's the thought that's motivating you to then go eat. So we gotta know, like I, that's a red flag for me when my brain's like, I just want that. I'm like, no you don't. You feel horrible when you eat that. And that's so funny. I've worked so much with it, right? So just not accepting the lies anymore, but very compassionately talking ourself as we. Mm. Yeah. It's so true, isn't it? It's things like, I want that, I deserve that. This will taste good. That's another big one as well, isn't it? Just the taste one. Oh, I love it. Carrie, this must have been you. She said. I don't remember. It's a comment. I don't remember who said it, but I like when one of you on the podcast said, I don't want to hire food to regulate my emotions. Yeah, I love that. I'm currently doing quote unquote interviews. Yeah, I love this. I'm doing interviews on new coping skills for when I feel emotions at those times is going to be fired. Oh my God. Love it. Love it. Fire their ass. Brilliant. Yeah. Okay, so this has been a really good session. It's already been half an hour, I can't believe. Like it's just gone so quickly. Yeah, I love, I love doing these sessions. We just go off on random tangents sometimes. So yeah, I hope, um, I hope that's been helpful. If you have any other comments, if you're watching the replay, you know, tag as if you're in the members group, we can help you out with this. And, uh, you know, leave some comments if you're on the public Facebook page, you know, we'll be happy to, to have a chat to you and see where you're at. So have a great day everyone, and we will be back next week with another one of these session.