Alchemising Education - Modern Day Addictions

Picture Friday night: Mum’s juggling Uber Eats menus, Dad’s doom-scrolling share prices, and the kids are TikTok-surfing Try Not To Laugh shorts while the telly drones on. Looks like well-earned down-time, right? Nope— that’s the addiction trifecta hard-wiring itself into your family’s nervous system.

In this Alchemising Education episode, QuantiMama Jodi and QuantiMama Kerri rip the Band-Aid off modern-day addictions—busyness, shiny-new consumerism and the dopamine drip of screens—and ask what those habits are really teaching our kids about sovereignty, rest and genuine connection.

Fresh research shows 28 % of Australian teens rack up five or more hours of non-school screen time every single day[1]. WTaF?!!!

Stack that against a timetable already chock-full with homework and extracurriculars—no wonder families feel fried, disconnected and permanently “behind”.

How do you kick these too-easy habits before they hijack every spare moment? Try this:

— Block white space in the family calendar before saying yes to extras
 — Trade takeaway night for a cook-together whole-food gathering
 — Store phones in a shared tech-box after 7 pm
 — Celebrate op-shop scores to calm the upgrade itch
 — Swap the post-dinner tech for a quick backyard moon-gaze or some old skool board games

Feeling seen? Grab a cuppa, ditch the overwhelm, and press play to find another way, today.

Sources
 [1] Black Dog Institute – Teens & Screens Report 2024

Transcript

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It's really quite exciting to go, all right, I'm going to use this, but not in the way that you expected me to. And it then shows them that they can be creative in their thinking. And they can be, you know, yeah, critical thinkers and then confident about their style, their way rather than trying to fit into the, to the process or the system or the programs. Yes. Hello, Quantafogues and welcome to another episode of Alchemising Education, our little sister podcast for Farking the Shoes. We're back and I am Jodie from Quantum Mama. I'm Carrie from Quantum Mama, thanks for being with us. Kesar. Yes. She's got a piece of paper that she doesn't want you guys to see because we normally don't prepare, but bless her. She's written some stuff down because there was some burning bits of desire that were kicking in. Yeah. We are talking about this week, about modern day addictions. And this conversation has been birthed from one of our early morning walks, but we were basically saying like a couple of, I don't know, boomers just complaining about the younger generation and how they're, they appear to be so addicted to various modern day conveniences, but, but we too are as well. And so, you know, anytime you complain, you must turn that introspection a little bit and just notice, you know, where's the complaint coming from and is it because we're actually feeling enslaved by our modern day conveniences? So what are our addictions? What's on your list? Well, there's lots really. I mean, there's lots and you're right. You know, it's not just the younger generation, but we're also addicted to a lot of things and we're modelling that for the younger generation. So it doesn't just come from them picking up those addictions. But one of the ones I always think about is, I've got a particular friend who every time when, you know, we speak and when we start the conversation, I'm just always busy. It's busy. It's busy. It's busy. It's busy. That busyness is a really big addiction in our lifestyle. Absolutely. Like this need to be busy. This justification about being busy. It's like, you know, I'm, I'm important. I'm doing something I'm purposeful. Yeah. And so ego related. I feel like we could chunk this into various chapters. And so this one is, you know, addicted to activity. Yes. Because it's funnily enough, one of my mates often says, I've got no time. And the joke now is we have a tequila shot. We don't really do it. Or we'd horribly drunk by midday. But, you know, it's a joke that we have a shot to it. You know, it's drinking game because every time she says, I've got no time. I'm like, times are concept. You've got 24 hours in every single day. And you just get to choose your allocation, you know. So, so what does that mean? Why is that sense of identity so strong for people that addiction to need to be busy? Is that a marker of success? Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a, it's definitely a marker of success. And it's sort of around a level of importance. As I said before, I think it's a purpose like we feel purposeful. Yeah. But I do feel like it's a very big distraction. And it's a distraction away from feeling. A lot of the addictions are about dealing with our feelings. I would absolutely agree with that. You know, avoiding our feelings and kind of going, that feels really uncomfortable. So I'll just keep myself really busy. And you know, I just think that it's an avoidance distraction. So then the question is, what are we avoiding? Because I think that obviously we're avoiding deeper aspects of our existence, deeper thoughts, perhaps uncomfortable truths, perhaps some avoidant behaviour that would ultimately, if you looked at it, would mean you'd probably blip aspects of your life and perceived comfort. I mean, we're very, we're very, another thing we're addicted to is the new and shiny. Yeah, absolutely. You know, you know, people that complain about being in debt and find you cars and I'm like, stop buying new cars. Yes, yes. Absolutely. They are the worst asset to invest in. They're not an asset anyway. They lose money as soon as you drive them out of the law. Right. So, you know, the addiction to that. And so part of that then, a lot of these addictions are really interwoven into each other, aren't they? I mean, we're addicted to being busy because of the self-importance and, you know, I guess, maybe underlying belonging and significance. Morris. But we're also then addicted to being busy because we must service the addiction to the shiny and new. Yes. Yeah. The shiny and new and the consumerism of having the latest and greatest. Yeah. You know, and, and feeling like we might be missing out if we don't have it. Yeah. You know, what have they got? Oh, I don't have that. And my child doesn't have that. So therefore, you know, I've got to keep up. We'll get left behind. I think that that's all part of the shiny and new as well. But you know, keeping up with the Jones, this has been a concept that's been around for a very long time. And this sense that we'll miss out or the, yeah, we're missing out trauma. Missing out trauma. Yes. M-O-T. M-O-T. Enough. Being an acronym. That's it. That's very complete. M-O-T. Yeah. So it's funny because obviously you've talked about keeping up with the Joneses. I know that's something you've touched on before. And I think also the other thing we've touched on before is this over commitment of our kids. You know, because this podcast is all about alchemyising education, the underpinning thing that's in here is that what we model for our kids is then what our kids experience and what we sometimes make manifest for them. And I think this addiction to busyness is a marker of successful parenting, you know, because my kid does five or six extra curricular activities on top of their full-time education job, right? So they're at work, work for 30 hours a week. And then their fun is also work because they're doing that outside of their work times. Yeah, it's right. Completely scheduled. And then you've got these kids who are just bloody exhausted. And we wonder why they want to zone out and move into the third addiction, which is the addiction to tech. Oh, yeah. You know, addiction to screens. And at some point, I know I keep threatening this. I want to talk about tech and kids. I really want to deep dive into it because it continues to be a battle within our family, a battle that, you know, I acquiesce too often because I'm addicted to being busy. And so I absolutely am conscious that I am not walking the talk of what I want for our kids in this modern generation. But, you know, this over scheduling of kids, we never give them a chance to just be quiet and regulate, self-regulate, get back in nature, decompress, you know, bring in and understand everything that's happened for them during the day. So there's a very small amount of integration time for our kids. Like, when do they just have a breath from all this new information and stimuli that they are constantly exposed to? And I think that self-regulation is so critical to these kids. The fact that they don't actually even know how to do it without, say, technology, like many of them and adults included, you know, we come home from work or they come home from school and I know that my son's really big on this one. He gets home and he just wants to sit on the couch and just do something on his phone. And I've often sort of had conversations around, well, is there anything else you can do to self-regulate, to downregulate? I get that you have been on the go all day. He's very, very social. You know, he's talking a lot in his work, thinking a lot and he just wants this quiet time. But this need to go to the technology in order to downregulate or self-regulate rather than find, you know, just sitting there and having a quiet cup of tea and looking out the window if it's a cold day, you know, and you want to be indoors fair enough. But what else can you be doing? It could be reading a book, it could be listening to music, it could be just staring at a fire, it could be sitting in the sunshine. We just don't know how to do that without the technology or without those other tools. That's right, because we're looking, I mean, we have basically been entrained to be saved from ourselves. Correct. Like that's how we're set up in society. And in fact, if you think about, and I imagine most people would be of this space, you know, it gets to the end of the week. So we've got Friday night, everyone's completely exhausted. The go-to treat is now like a movie and take out. Right. So then you've got super shit food that is nutritionally just completely obliterated. Right. The cheapest of the cheap ingredients, even if you're going somewhere decent, the profit line is always part of, you know, the retail culture. And so you've got this poorly made offering that doesn't nourish you. In fact, it puts you into a place of disease. And then you've got something like you're watching a movie, which may trigger the pleasure centers, but very much for most part, what screens do is they actually drop you into a brainwave state that's similar to sleeping, except that your body doesn't get to decompress. And I think that's why people go to screens as a way to decompress, because they're body is sort of telling them, oh, this is a brainwave state we need to be in, except that it's like eating takeout. It's terrible for you. It doesn't build new healthy cells. It doesn't help information integrate. It doesn't do any of those things. And, you know, am I going to sit here and say, we don't do that. We definitely do that. I know. And I fight that within our family, because we've actually got better, not always, but better at playing games. Yeah. And it can be a really simple game where you don't think like that. I mean, my kids are probably too old for snap, but do you want to mean like a really simple game? We do a lot of, you know, you know, and I've gotten kids who are 18 and 20 and they still like a bit of, you know, and you kind of go, that's, that's not hard. It's not, it doesn't take a lot of thinking, but what I love about that versus a movie, is there still connection time? Yeah. There's still a time to just sort of wind down to relax a little bit more unless you're really competitive and you have to mean and you get upset, but, you know, on the whole way, we actually find that that's a really good way of just relaxing. Oh, it's an opportunity to decompress and integrate, but it's still activity based. And I think that's where people can get confused because in fact, if you were to go for a walk in nature, that's still actually activity on the body. So there's still a natural activity load on the body, but how you feel at the end of that walk is probably far more nourished than if you had a sat down the couch, watched a screen and ate a bag of chips. Absolutely. And, you know, I often think also, you know, this need for busyness is there's a pace to it. So, you know, we feel like we have to just keep going, keep going, keep going. Now, even a walk in nature doesn't have to be fast if you don't feel up to it. Yeah. And it doesn't have to be long either. You know, so maybe sometimes you've got this particular walk that you do that goes for an hour, or maybe just do a part of it and go for 20 minutes. Yeah. You know, it doesn't have to be long. It's just about, you know, how we engage in it. And you know, what we expect out of it, you know, as my husband even picked me up on it yesterday around, you know, it's okay to be doing something without an outcome. Yes. You can just do something to just enjoy it. Yes. But then you might actually find an outcome that feels good anyway and it'll take you by surprise. And that's exactly what happened to me yesterday when I decided to do something based on just enjoy the process rather than the outcome. And I got the outcome and I went, oh, that felt great. Yeah. And I think that's slightly unexpected. And I mean, I think that's why we talk about being in concert with, say, the Universal Field or whatever you want to call it, the collective suit because then you get to be surprised and delighted in that space, you know, and that's, and that's a beautiful thing. And when you have that, you actually want more of it. It feels really nice. So we've got the addiction to busyness, the addiction to the shiny and new, and we've got the addiction to tech and screens. Yes. How, how then do we navigate this with our kids? And so I think the most obvious thing with that, and I know you've got a list of other things you want to find. Not that's fine, yeah, yeah. But let's just like consolidate these ones because they're biggies, right? They're big? They're really big. How do we then help our kids these days who are naturally falling prey to this stuff? How do we help them not be addicted to this stuff? The obvious thing has got to be we don't model it ourselves. It has to be that. It has to be with anything, with any change, with any new way of doing something. We have to model it. We have to look at ourselves. And I know that I'll, you know, I don't love it in the moment, but I really appreciate the mirrors in my life where I watch say the kids doing something and I go, you shouldn't be doing that. And you go, actually, I do that. I fall prey to that. And that's where change happens. Yeah. Is that it has to come back to us as the parents. We have to model it. We have to start questioning and really just understand that if we're doing it, then naturally get a pick up on it. It's just, I just don't see any other way. No, I mean, they're taking their cues from the environment around them for the world around them. That's why people send their kids to school because they want them to learn that stuff in that environment. But the thing is that it's, it's so perverse now, you need to step back and say, what's the overarching intention here? And I keep coming back to the fact that it must be to keep people busy and enslaved essentially. You keep them compliant because they're busy being busy. They're busy making money to buy the shiny and new and they are busy being distracted by cute kittens or whatever other bullshit they're watching on whatever social media platform. I mean, there's just so much junk food out there for your eyes. Yep. And none of it is nourishing you. It's not making you a better human. No. You don't remember it the next day. I mean, maybe one stands out, but when you scroll for an hour, what do you retain in that? You don't. And that's by design. Yeah. It is by design. It is a working system. Yeah. It's, it's been brought to us exactly to keep us addicted and to keep us stuck and keep us doing what keeps society moving in a particular way. And, and I really believe it, it's really worked well at disconnecting family members from each other. Yes. Like it just, I mean, how many of us, I'm sure we can all relate to at times where we're sitting around having a nice, relaxing evening and you've got about four of you or three of you are all sitting there on the couch on your phone. And when I see that happening, I'll say, ah, what's going on here? So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it quickly sort of puts it down, not realizing that it's even happened. So then you have to make a conscious choice in that moment to go, okay, we're not doing that. Let's put it away. Let's put it away. And you know, we hear families and mothers talk all the time about their concern around that behaviour within the family. Yes. Well, I mean to shame us, but it's meant to, but we, we, to know it's happening. We must call it out because it is perverse and pervasive and it is undermining real connection and totally. You've got to call that out. It has to be done. One of the really simple things is you can get a tech box. Yes. Even if you don't use it, at least there's an intention there and at some point behaviour will change, you know. It's been interesting because we are very, when I say we, it's because like McGill's just not present. So he differs to me for the parenting and this and I'm slack. So part of being slack is that I give the kids what most would probably assess too much free range on the screens because I want them to be in the lolly shop and to make better decisions in the lolly shop if there's such a thing, right? And I think that I'm kidding myself if we think we're going to have a screen free existence. I mean, I see these groups on social media of screen free kids and I'm like, no, it's not happening. I mean, schools is basically screens now. Oh, and yeah. It happens even the home school environment, you can take your kids out in nature, but at some point the screens come into it. Notwithstanding the fact that the parents are walking around and you know, my kids used to call me out and say, you're on your screen again and I'm like, this runs the household. Yeah, that's like literally it runs the household. So they don't see that. So we always talk about active screen time versus passive screen time. So I think that's a really helpful division to say, well, actually, what does that mean? Well, active being that it is running the household or it is making connection with somebody to organise something or, you know, you're looking at something in order to do the next step. Whatever it might be versus passive of this, yeah, you know, for an hour before you even realise an hour has gone by. Were you on Tinder then? I think that's why I think so. I was at Tinder. She just given away a state secret. Well, just try to be relatable, I think. I've never done that. I don't feel areas. That's great. Yeah. So it's about understanding the difference between active and passive. And I think that's a really simple, easy way because I, yeah, I don't get caught up on that anymore because my kids sort of know the difference. Yes. And I really don't tend to use it for passive time, not not that much. I mean, we all get hooked on it for sure, but I do very intentionally go, okay, this is active screen time. I'm okay to do it. Yes. Yeah, that's right. I think that can be, that can, you know, be helpful if you enable your kids to do that sort of stuff as well. Yeah. But I still see a perversity in the sense that our eldest got a phone mainly because he was, you know, places where he needed a phone to be able to log on for work and stuff, because there's no just telling people you've started working. You have to, it's all punching. Yeah. It's all really nice. Yeah. So this intertwining of technology is just, it's just so inextricably linked with life, right? Anyway, I noticed that he does things like he brings his phone with him when we pop down to the post office and I'm like, you know, I'm cool. You're okay to leave that at home. Oh, bring it with me. Why? For what? You don't need it. And so I can see even the insidiousness of the Linus blanket that the phone is now providing for him. He's actually not, doesn't do a lot of stuff on the phone, but it's still this thing where he needs it with him the whole time and I talked to him quite frankly about the fact that this is a surveillance device. Oh, just so you know, you are signing up for surveillance. Now, if you don't mind being surveilled more power to you, go for it. Download all the apps you want. Leave all the permissions on no probs. But if you have an opinion about that and perhaps you want to be the master of your life rather than the bitch, which is what this technology is creating for us, then you must start exercising some level of control. And the other thing we talk about because I really love, Joe dispenser talks a lot about, you know, how the brain works and the hormones and the addictiveness of this stuff. So he's talked about that a lot and I really love what he has to say about, you know, he was calling out technology in his family quite early as well. And so, you know, it was obviously no phones or screens at the table, which we have always done. I know you guys do as well. It's an easy thing. There's a sacrosanct space for having a family meal, even just having a family meal is hard enough these days with everyone's moving busyness. But he also talks about how it changes in neural pathways and how it fires up the addiction centers. So that's one of the things in terms of how we alchemise education, part of the education in our household is how are you changing your neural mapping? How are you affecting yourself by the choices you're making? What addictive decisions are you making that are creating stronger addictions? And can you break out of that, you know, which way is it? Is it the chicken or the egg with your phone? You know, who's in charge of whom? And so trying to empower the kids to make better decisions again, that idea of being in the lolly shop, but not just having an absolute free for all. I just think that that feels to me like playing the long game with our kids on these things. Well, I have to be able to experience it for themselves, what it makes them feel like, and then make their own choices around it. You're ready to make that choice because as we all know, nobody likes to be told that you should be changing your way. Correct. Like as soon as someone says, I think you really need to change the way you do that. It's like instantly like it always goes well for the next and just. So we do need to give these kids these experiences and help them understand how it's working for them and isn't working for them and have those sort of conversations about it. Yeah, chicken. But it's really tough with the technology because it is all through the schools and it's expected in the schools. Whereas I'm still an old school sort of a girl which I love my paper copy of things. I like to write things down. I love a good book. I don't love working from a screen. So you do aeroplane mode in the car. Yeah, you are basically uncontactable. Yes. And I have to leave no replaying made mode on and I've just gotten in some of those. I've been trying to contact you. It's like, oh yeah, phones on aeroplane mode. Sorry. Yeah, but I like not being contacted all the time. I am not on call. No. You can pay me 10 bucks an hour if you like and I'll go on call. That's fine. But you can't call me if you call me then it's a call out fee. And so suddenly we start, you know, really honoring the fact that you are here for this limited amount of time in this skin sack and you do not need to be on call all the time. There is nothing that other addiction isn't it? That's another addiction is the fact that we feel like it should be always contactable. Yes. And it's really like when we go, I go for a walk and I like to not take my phone with me. And that feels great when you know you've just had that hour of just not having anyone being able to contact you and you know that when you are in nature, you're really in nature. You don't have this stuff that's constantly admitting you. But there's an addiction to that that feeling like if they can't contact me, what's going to go wrong? What if I fall over and break a leg? I'm like when if you break into leg on all your other walks? Well, what's going to happen if someone calls me and they can't get in contact with me? They'll just have to do with whatever it is. And I think that that's perfectly okay. Absolutely. Yeah. So definitely that addiction to being in contact with people all the time is as well. Oh, it's prevalent. What else have you got on your list? Well, I think the other one is about an addiction to achievement. Oh, yes. Well, we've talked about that. We have. So I think that sense of you know, needing to be achieving, succeeding, proving ourselves, justifying what we're doing. I think that's another really big one that comes again through the school system because that's how the school system is set up. Yes. The good old grading system, maybe CD. I mean, that in a so early on, even a past or a fail or whatever, it's this need to be achieving. And that's what fit into my situation yesterday when it's like, I need to be doing this. I need to get to this point. It's like, no, just enjoy the journey, enjoy the actual being part of that rather than having to get to an end marker. Yes. And then feeling that sense of, oh, I didn't really achieve it or I didn't really make it. So then you just feel rubbish about yourself or you feel like you fail. So I think this need to achieve is a very big one for many people. Is there a place for those, like, you know, is there a place? How do we find that self-assessment, you know, because I think that then it gives you a sense of, I don't think you can do anything. Say you say you do something for two hours. You cannot be the same person when you started as when you finished because something has happened in those two hours. So inextricably, you have changed in some fashion, even if it's by some small measure. But do we, for ourselves, need that mark of measure? Do we need to be able to see that change? I think society tells us that we do. Yeah. But that's where we've lost that sense of just being happy with what we're achieving. Yeah. So it then probably feeds into that external validation where we feel this need to always get the external input into whether we have been successful or not. So whether it be report cards, you know, we love to have got that feedback. Yes. So go, yeah, we're doing well or we are being accepted. Yes. That is also another part of that success struggle that we have. So I want to share with you, because there's something that I'm doing that probably is at odds with what you're talking about. And I'm not saying it's an addiction, but it is something that I think, I don't know, I feel like it's a, it's a, it's a pack of doing tests in a certain way. Yep. The kids have been doing an online maths thing just basically. So, you know, you cover, you're ticking a box. I'm ticking a box. If and when I get audited, right? So consider this as evidence. But the kids are doing that. But rather than actually doing the lessons, because I said to them, you learn math in a multitude of different ways, right? Absolutely. They want to know that themselves. And so I said, okay, with the math course or, you know, the math program you're doing, only do the tests. Don't do the lessons. Okay. And the reason why I suggested that is that the way they work stuff out is different to the way they're tested, right? And so some of my kids have, they question themselves about that, oh, I must be wrong. I'm doing it wrong. I'm dumb. You know, and there can be those kind of more extreme responses. And then there's a couple of the kids that just hold that frequency of, you know, they just do it their own way and they get that, right? And they go, well, I do it differently. And I'm like, cool, I'm really happy with that. The point is, I don't feel the need for them to learn via the math programs way, which tells them a certain way of working out something. Because the ultimate test is, did you get the answer correct? And it's one answer, right? So there's only one answer that's possible in this mathematics equation. We're not even going to get into the semantics of whether that's true or not, but for all intensive purposes, it's one answer. And so the kids now are doing the tests only, no lessons whatsoever. And then we find that if there is a gap in their knowledge base around that, then we go back and we go, all right, well, let's find some structure and see if this makes sense. And so I'm finding that from a testing point of view, it's interesting because then they get that sense of, you already know this. You can already work this out. And you know, the kids that normally think they can't do math, they're finding out they can do math. And it's an, I just, so when we talk about alchemizing education, what I want to say to people is there are different ways to do this. And just because as adults, we've been in train to do the lesson. And then the track and then the test, you actually don't have to. And that's the flexibility that comes with keeping your kids home and having a closer relationship with them because these conversations get to come up and you get to reimagine how you can do education. And it's really, it's really quite exciting to go, all right, I'm going to use this, but not in the way that you expected me to. And it then shows them that they can be creative in their thinking. And they can be, you know, yeah, critical thinkers and then confident about their style, their way, rather than trying to fit into the, to the process or the system or the programs. Yes, absolutely. Very powerful. All right, what else you got? What else is in your list? Do you have a look? Did you need your glasses? What do you know the other one was institutional approval? You love this one, Joets. Because we addiction of approval of validation. The validation from those who are external to us. Oh, people that wear white coats and stethoscope or professional hats. Correct. Or they wear the tinge hat or they wear the, yeah, maybe the politician or whatever it is. The so-called experts who are out there that we need there, we need to know that they validate what we're doing or where we're heading. And if they say it isn't so, then therefore it isn't so. But if you know it to be so, then in fact it is so. And so you never needed them to say it was so in the right place. Correct. And so why do we need that validation? I think it's again, it just comes back to, we feel like, because we haven't got the qualification. Yeah. We can't make that decision on our own. So this is where we are disconnected to our own intuition. Because we actually know a lot of it already. Yes. And we don't have the qualification. Yes. Don't have the language we perhaps don't have all the resources that are behind all of these professional people. But actually, I think if you just stop still and you just, if you didn't have those people there, you would find a way. Yeah, it's right. And this is, I mean, there's got to be a distinction here. It's not about not going and getting the information of someone who knows more than you. Like if you see in someone that they have certain information that you then want to learn, then more power to you, go in and go and find out that information and then make it your own. And that's the difference. But do you need the ticket? Do you need the certificate? Yeah. I just kind of feel like we are giving away our power by always seeking those answers from others. And yes, you can certainly get their information. You can maybe go to one or two people and gather that information and learn for yourself. But actually, ultimately, you can still decide. Absolutely. And I think that that's something that we're ending to too is this, oh, we can't make that decision because they know best. It's a little bit like childbirth, right? Yeah. A little bit like when I went through childbirth and I would do it very differently next time. But yes, you know, I gave up my power. So many of them. So many of them. Exactly. Because they, they're the experts. They are better than me. I've never been in a situation before. So therefore, I'll just hand it over to them. Yeah. And I think that can be very damaging to our self-worths. And then to other decisions that we make further down the track. So when we empower the institution, we often, we either give them what we think are going to be the outcomes and values that we hold dear that they will do the same thing. We make an assumption. Yeah. And we also don't look at the terms and conditions. So you know, you take, say, university, which is for the most part, the biggest crock of shit. Because there is definitely some things in there that you may need to go and learn, right? And you know, you don't ever reply. The idea that you can go to uni and learn how to do marketing. I mean, the day you start doing marketing at uni, you already don't have currency because it changes so fast and particularly now in the world of AI, right? So with this ever-changing landscape, but more than that, marketing really is about, it's a sociological and anthropological exploit, basically. It's looking at how people behave and how they take in information and their behaviors in terms of the way they respond to messaging. And it's not, it's not necessarily something you need to learn in an institution. You actually need to be around people observing them, asking them questions. Have a good degree of curiosity. Yes. So that's not something you have to go and get a qualification for. And more than that, you don't need to go and get a, what is it, like, $15,000, $20,000 debt as well in doing that. So you start out, I mean, we have definitely called out the uni thing. Yeah. You know, that's something that I think we're getting clearer and clearer on, particularly for our kids. And this is something like, I went to uni, got a qualification, didn't use it, then went to ambulance school, got another diploma. McGill was a bit the same. He went and got a teaching degree and then went off and became a police officer for a while. And so, you know, we actually have a couple of qualifications to our name. And it's extraordinary, at least one of them didn't cost us any money, but the first one cost heaps. And we spent years paying it off. And for what? Yeah. Like, what was the point of it? What did I come out of there learning that I couldn't have learned in industry? And the absolute removal of industry for a lot of these, say, uni courses just makes no sense whatsoever. Well, talking with someone the other day about traineeships. Yes. Good old traineeships for you have got into a workplace and you would be a trainee for a year or two before you became a qualified employee. Yes. And that was the learning on the job in the workplace. You have a mentor there to guide you to share their knowledge, their wisdom, their information. And that was you were being paid to do that. Yeah. At first, you were getting paid to learn. I mean, that's, that was a remarkable concept. But even if you don't, like I talk to my kids and say, you are never going to be so cheap and useful as you are right now, right? Because there are certain laws in place to make sure people get paid appropriately. But the laws are absent for children or for young adults, say. So when you're 18, 19 years old, you are cheapest chips for an employer, but you are also hungry for information. And particularly if you are, say, a visual or a kinesthetic learner, when you go into a work environment, you absolutely get that sort of learning, right? It's hands on or you get to watch what someone's doing and then have a go. But the point is the cognition rate is far higher for how that information drops in, makes sense. And you can then do it yourself, right? And you're also super cheap. And so one thing that I've become really clear on now with the spaciousness of having the kids home is that there is a great opportunity for them to go in and do a smoggy of different work that they might like. Different work interests is what I'll call it because I don't want to go out and experience the world and just be helpful, be useful, be curious and get involved because those people are ultimately rewarded and they will be favoured over people who have a uni degree. That is the reality for most of the workforce out there. The creatives will inherit the earth. There is no doubt about it now. And I know a lot of the young people are calling out the fact they don't feel ready for work. Absolutely. Absolutely. And ask we, some of the kin's trusts of Australia and those young kids were going, they just didn't have a sense of what the workplace would look and feel like. Yes. And now I'm really worried about how they're going to navigate being in those workplaces because a lot of the schools now don't do a work experience. Apparently that program has pretty much been shut down. It's kind of very few schools that do that work experience. But even when I was in school, I did one or two work experiences. Yes. Now that is nuts. That is absolutely nuts because you've got kids that really could be going in and being a value but they're just considered a nuisance like they get in the way and it's just a box ticking exercise. You know, so partly we don't have industry that wants to encourage them. They're not supporting it. Not supporting it. And I'm not sure how that came about. But I really feel that that was such an important part of the process when we were younger. But the home schoolers that we know, they're all getting that experience now. So they're going into different jobs that maybe just part time, it could be a week, it could be one day a week, it could be an hour a week. But they're getting exposure to different workplaces. So I think that that is critical to their development. Well, I mean, I just say to my kids, don't expect to get paid. You don't get paid to go to school. So you know, don't expect to get paid. Your payment is, you know, that transference of information. You get to ask the questions and that's really powerful. You know, so you're thinking about how to be, I guess, more adaptive in the way kids learn is really helpful. And we talk about this in Take the Leap. What kind of learner is your kid? When I was saying this to chronic kid to the other day, she was, you know, asking me a bunch of questions and she was talking about what school had been like for her. And it's fascinating what still keeps coming out. Yeah, right. And I just allow for it. You know, she's unpacking however many years she did six years of school. And just unpacking that, you know, in her own time, I don't need to steer that ship. She's doing it herself. But she was talking about, you know, the what she perceived as her difficulties in school. And I guess how that then contributed to her belief system about her capacity and capabilities, which were quite damaging, I have to say. And one of the things that I said to her was, what kind of learner are you? You know, do you learn hands-on as in your kinesthetic or do you learn by watching or do you learn by listening or do you learn by reading? And she said, oh, I probably learn by. It hands on and by watching. And I said, okay, so when you were learning, say, math or English and things like that, how much of that was hands on? And she said, oh, none of it. Virtually. There was a bit, but not much. And I said, so you're being taught stuff, you're being assessed on stuff, you're getting given a timeline to get stuff done and being taught in a way that isn't the way you learn. So how is that fair for you? And how does that reflect whether you're dumb or smart? And it landed for her. She got it. I said, how many other kids do you reckon are like you? And she went, most of them? So these kids know. And they do. You know, bringing up what you said about KTA when we got to listen to those, you know, kids talking about what they perceived was missing from their education. The list was so long. It was long. And it was all stuff that we said, yes, you guys are right onto it. You need to know this stuff. That is actually stuff that you need when you come out of school. So why would you not want to be prepared for when you come out of school? Why wouldn't you? And they're asking for it, but there is no facility for the institution at this stage to be responsive to that. And so the helplessness is there. Definitely. They're just kind of a stuck in this situation going, I know what I mean. They don't like it. Yes, I know what I'm saying. No one's giving it to me. No one's giving it to me. And I think, oh, it's probably another podcast, but I think we rely upon the school system to give the kids those schools. But ultimately, also, it's up to the parents to help those kids learn those skills as well, which is a whole new thing. They're busy. They're busy, busy. They're come on now. They're addicted to busy, you know, consumerism and time. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? The other one I wanted to also bring up is the addiction to certainty. Ooh, this has been a good thing for you over the years. I have loved certainty. So that's surrender to not knowing, not having structure or not having an outcome or not having an end product or not knowing where it was going. I've been very addicted to certainty, very addicted. And I think we are when there's so much structure in our world. And there's really clear expectations and clear outcomes and clear products and everything is sanitised and containerised. Yeah, absolutely. And there's no fun in that. And in fact, if you want to then live in the quantum field, say, the field that is greater to us, the great unknown, then there must be surrender and trust within that equation. Yes, they just must. Yes. Like that's the deal, right? It's really quite liberating though when you no longer hook on to that certainty. Like you then don't try to control as much in the world. Yes. You sort of let go to whatever happens is what's meant to happen. And it just takes all the walls down. Yeah. You just sort of freeze you up to all the possibilities and opens your mind to so much more. It brings us back to our childlike state. Yes it does. Because being the child is being in a sense of play and part of that play is not knowing where the play is going to go. Like you don't play with the dollhouse knowing at some point there will be a certain outcome. You have to make sure that that room is cleaned up and that room looks like that. You just play. You just wander down the pathway and find out where you lead and it's all part of being present. Yes. And being in the joy of the experience rather than in the expected outcome. And I think again, this is always related to the fact that it is by design. You want certainty. You want, I mean this is why we have super funds and things like that. We need certainty to have money for our future when we finish working, which suggests to me that then we are being curated to have a lifetime of debt so that we need then like a little kitty savings account to make sure we've got enough later on when we're not working, right? And I know that the story is that it's so you're not a burden on society, but I still wonder if it creates this lack mentality because you think you won't have enough otherwise. Yes. And it also, I think it takes away our, you know, we love that self-redical responsibility because it takes away that thought of, well, we can look after ourselves. Yes. But no, we have to actually put super fund into an area and we can't touch it till 65 or whatever the age is now. Because we're children apparently. Because we don't know how to manage our own money. Yes. So we give away our control and our power to that particular, you know, program. Yes. Because we can't do it ourselves. It's a very parent frequency, isn't it? It really is. You know, it's like this. I always got offended by these Christmas accounts where the bank decided that you could touch your money until Christmas time. I'm like, well, you have a career in it. You mean, decent interest rate, if, you know, I promise not to touch it, but, you know, does the bank really, does it make a difference for the bank? They would say, well, it's just so you don't take your money out and we've got more to play with. But we don't do it for you. We can help you. Yeah. Yeah. The gas lighting. The gas lighting. Just keep it in the jar and don't touch it. No. The interest rate would be about the same. Well, you know, yeah, I guess it's only a year, but if you look at it over the years, as we've spoken before, interest rate really doesn't give us much. No. No, it's not. It's something like silver. Oh, no. No. Prussian medals. Prussian medals. Yeah. Shout out to us. Good to go. Go buy some. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. That's right. I know. Happy days. So they're, I think, they're probably the main addictions that I can think of. Is there any other addictions in modern life that you think we kind of feel like we can't live without? Well, I mean, I know that, you know, McGill and I've spoken about the addiction to drama. I think that's a big one. And I see that in my kids too. So, you know, without launching a whole new conversation, I think there are the addiction to addiction would probably be the most prevalent is people love to have an addiction, you know, whether it's addiction to drama, addiction to screens. And I don't know if that helps them feel addiction to being a victim, addiction to being a victim, definitely. I mean, that's a big proponent of the drama cycle. But, you know, that, that need for an addiction is the great antidote is to just be present with your life, with whatever you're doing. And when you are present, you are whole. You're not, you're not in need of anything else. You're not in like and there are moments. I think they're fleeting for lots of people, but there are moments where you are present with what you're doing and where you are and who you're with and the level of engagement. And it's a beautiful thing when you get those bliss points. And I think there's a real sense of peace and ease and comfort and positive way, like I'm not saying it's a, yeah, it's, it's kind of just that it's annoying that you you're doing and being exactly what you need to be. Yeah. And I think if you need motivation to not be addicted or to at least wrangle some control over whatever addiction is, you know, your choice of poison, just acknowledge the fact that when you participate in addicted behavior, you are firing up cortisol and you're firing up a bunch of other hormones that disconnect you from finding the simple pleasure and joy in life. Absolutely. Yeah. They really do rewire your brain, but it is recoverable. If something can be wired, it can be unwired and it can be rewired, right? Whatever can be made can be unmade and whatever can be unmade can be made. So all of these things with energy are all recoverable and can all be transmuted. So there's absolutely an opportunity to always find, you know, the higher expression of this, you know, and want just awareness around it, isn't it? It's about knowing that there's lots of things out there that do have us in that addicted state. Yeah. And because we love a swear word in our house, you know, I often say to the kids, don't make yourself life's bitch like literally do not be the slave to your life because you've chosen to be here for this experience. So, you know, it's about making life work for you. And so just noticing where where that the tipping point is, that balance point is is really important. So yeah, but use your kids' motivation if you need to and, you know, carries giving the hand up for a child that's way to come in. You can. Okay. Getting the wind up from child. Getting the wind up from the youngest, 24. 24. Oh, out of the, out of the mouths of babes as usual. So, you know, mum's talking too long, wind her up. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Love this conversation. Yeah, it's a good one. I think we're, to be aware of all those addictions that are out there and some of them are by design, some of them we choose, some of them we are, you know, stuck with some of them we just need to be more aware of. And I think, you know, it's all possible to, to, to make those changes and just be more pretty. Yeah. And if you're bothered by it, like if you're not bothered by it, go ahead and be as deep as you want. Go by and you can't. Yeah. But yeah. Go get all those clothes that you don't really need. Whatever it is it works for you. And, you know, some of these are a bit of a trigger to you and you kind of go, yep, I'm addicted to that. It's like, well, that's okay. It's not a judgment. It's just about are you okay with that? It's always an invitation. It is. It's always an invitation that if you are having some kind of response to it, then it's an invitation to look at it, you know, because we want everyone to get the juice out of life. Don't be life's bitch. No. Right. Make life your bitch in the nicest possible way. Love that, Jo. It's beautiful. Yep. Such, such, um, highbrow worse. I vibe. Hahaha. Quantifices. We'll see you next time. Thanks for joining us. Bye. See you. Hey, Quantifices. You know, the conversations that we have about alchemising education are underpinned by our amazing Take the Leap Course for Parents, which is all about de-schooling the parents. If you're keen to deep dive more, then check out the quantummummer.com website and find the Take the Leap Course. This course is beautiful because it will give you an opportunity to examine where your programmes are, where you're creating limiting beliefs and expectations for your child, and it ultimately frees you to be the best advocate for your child that you can be. And that's all of us can ever want for our children, just to love, nurture and watch them become the most incredible individuals that we already know them to be. So more info head to quantummummer.com.