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Anybody Everybody Tottenham
Anybody Everybody Tottenham
Advocacy and Support in the Health Care System - Amisha, birth worker
In today's episode I am talking to Amisha to find out what exactly is a birth worker or doula and how she got to start this interesting path. We talk about her specific focus on black and brown women in this context and also her advocacy for LGBTQ+ parents and their specific challenges.
Amisha is fairly new to Tottenham but still has some great top tips for the local area.
Amisha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amishathebirthworker/
Amisha's website: https://www.amishathebirthworker.com/
Abuela Doulas (who she trained with): https://www.instagram.com/abueladoula/
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Jamila 0:02
Hi I'm Jamila and anybody, everybody Tottenham as a bimonthly podcast, introducing the good people of Tottenham to you. Today I'm talking to Amisha, who is a birth worker from Tottenham. And we talk about inequalities in the health system, particularly around childbirth, and how a birth worker can support especially people in the LGBTQ plus community to advocate for what they need in the settings around childbirth. So today on the pod, I have Amisha with me who is a barf worker, we shall find out what that means. Hello, Amisha.
Amisha 0:48
Hi, Jamila. Thanks so much for having me on the podcast.
Jamila 0:52
So Amisha we start always off with your connection to Tottenham? You said, you moved quite recently. Why did you move here? What drew you in?
Amisha 1:03
So I was actually looking for a place to live with my girlfriend. And, you know, London, it's just like, it can be really hard to find a place. But we ended up finding somewhere with like, a really nice, lots of parks and like nature nearby, which was something we were looking for. And we just really ended up liking the area. So I actually grew up in West London. So it was a bit of a change moving up north. But I'm really enjoying it so far.
Jamila 1:32
So you weren't put off by any negative connotations of Haringey, Tottenham?
Amisha 1:40
No, not really. I feel like every area in London has like negative stuff that people say about it. So I tried to like not focus on that unless it is something that would really affect me. But no, I didn't really think that much about anything negative when I moved to,
Jamila 1:59
And first impressions?
Amisha 2:01
First impression, so I've yet just been really liking the local community. Like, there's some bits that I would prefer to not have to deal with. I'm sure everyone's aware of seven sisters. They're still like, preachers by the station, who can make some like homophobic remarks from time to time, but I've just learned to like, brush it off. Yeah, just like not engage, like, just keep moving. But other than that, yeah, it's really nice. I'm enjoying it.
Jamila 2:36
Okay, so you are a birth worker, but I'm assuming you didn't start off with this just reading a little bit about you. So could you tell us a little bit about your path into the work you're doing now?
Amisha 2:51
Yeah, definitely. So how I got into it, it was a bit of a, you know, not conventional path. Not that there really is a conventional path going into birth work, it is sort of something that people say you're just sort of like, called to do. So I went to university and studied biology. And while I was there, I sort of lost interest in the sort of like, research side of it. And this whole, I don't know, the whole degree side of it. And I got more interested in like, access to health care, and like understanding patient rights, and also just like, the racism that exists within healthcare systems, racism, that's been in medicine like since modern Western medicine was sort of like founded. And, yeah, that was something I became really passionate about. And then, after finishing uni, I sort of got interested in curriculums and like decolonizing curriculums and that kind of work
Jamila 3:51
In secondary schools, at university, or where do you mean?
Amisha 3:57
So it was mainly in secondary schools. Oh, yeah. So I was working with this organization called the Black curriculum that was basically campaigning, it had two parts. One was campaigning to the government to basically make it a requirement that schools teach black histories in the curriculum, because at the moment, it's kind of like optional and also with the Tory government, they kind of trying to make any conversations around black history, basically remove it from the curriculum. So it's like we are sort of going backwards now. But so they do that. And then they also do work in school where they teach and deliver workshops, and like lessons around black British history.
Jamila 4:39
And then, and then how did you get to birth work?
Amisha 4:42
After that, I was sort of doing that for like, a little bit like around it, maybe just over a year. And then I basically I wanted to get back into what I started out with, which is like the bit I was really passionate about for my degree was like the medical advocacy part - people getting health care that was not sort of like blanket health care that for a lot of people, especially like black and brown people and where people, it doesn't actually meet our needs. And the system itself doesn't really know how to meet our needs. And doulas, basically all birth workers provide that one to one sort of like tailored care that isn't really available in the NHS or even in like a lot of private health care, you'll find.
Jamila 5:29
So what what gaps have you noticed within health care when it comes to black and brown people and the gay community? Now I know some terrible statistics, especially around childbirth and black women. It's five, isn't it like?
Amisha 5:48
five times more likely to die during child birth, which is like a really shocking statistic. And is actually worse than it is in America where I think it's like three or four times more likely. And they also found in studies that looked at race and childbirth, that it doesn't, like people were saying it was like, because black women were like, generally in poor communities. So it was more of a like class issue than it was a race issue. But when they actually break it down, they realized that black women, no matter what their socio economic status was, were always were like more likely to die than white women have the same socio economic thesis. So yeah, it's like, it's kind of we know that from like media as well, like things like Serena Williams, she's one of the richest, most powerful women in the world. And even during childbirth, she experienced a lot of complications.
Jamila 6:42
You had that background and how would you go about becoming a doul? Now I knew the term I don't know if maybe from American TV programs and stuff, when people had like home births. And then they had a doula I think, how much is this a concept in the UK? Is it a very new one, or is?
Amisha 7:03
It's definitely not a new concept. But I think it's becoming more mainstream and more common as more people are having issues with the healthcare system that's available to them, and especially now with staffing issues and COVID. In like maternal and Perinatal health, it's become, there's more of an awareness around what we do. And yeah, definitely in America, there's like a bigger community and more people know about doulas, because - or birth workers, which is just different words for the same thing, basically. Yeah, cause I guess private healthcare is more of a thing. So people are more aware of things like birth workers. And yeah, people also consider it a lot more to do with home births. But there is some birth workers who will only support home births. Just because they don't want they maybe have issues with the hospital system. And just like, they don't want to deal with that. But I think most most birth workers that I know, will support a birth no matter where it is, if it's a hospital birth, if it's planned C section, that's home birth, birth center, they will support that. So yeah.
Jamila 8:10
So what do you do?
Amisha 8:12
So basically, what we do is we provide support during pregnancy. And that's sort of antenatal information, and putting together a birth plan, sort of supporting the birth partners, no matter if that's a romantic partner, friend, relative, just to create that birth team. And we call it a birth plan. But obviously, you can't really plan birth, birth just is unpredictable. It's sort of putting together the birthing path that birthing person's preferences, so that the rest of their birth team can advocate for that as much as possible during the birth. And they'll also be there during the birth with them and provide if they want it support postnatally, which is obviously a really important period and a really difficult period for a lot of people.
Jamila 9:04
Yeah, I think when I looked on your website, you said how you educate people as well about their rights, isn't it like once they're in, in hospital in the situation? What can they ask for? And what what can they do?
Amisha 9:19
Yeah, yeah, definitely. That's a really important part. Because a lot of the time when you do end up going to a hospital or a birth center, the midwives and staff there will have their own policies and procedure, which is how they will do things. But obviously, that is not the law. You don't have to follow exactly what the hospital is doing. And just just because it's their policies, sometimes those policies aren't even based on the most up to date research and evidence that they can be based on research that from like 30 or 20 years ago that isn't really relevant now. And also, these guidelines just because they're sort of a blanket rule of what works best for them. It's not going to be what works best for every single person. So, yeah, it's making sure that people know their rights and are able to advocate for themselves. And also you can be that advocate for them when they're in labor, and they can't really do that themselves
Jamila 10:13
And your training to become a birth worker. How was that? Who trained you to do this?
Amisha 10:21
So I trained with an organization called abueladoulas that was founded by Mars Lord, who is a really amazing birth worker and life coach. And she basically set up abueladoula because she wants to train more black and brown birth workers to address the gap, or the disparities in outcomes for black and brown birthing people. So I trained last year with them around March. And yeah, it's been a really great experience.
Jamila 10:55
So were initially would you be there and with another birth worker to kind of observe? Because I just feel like
Amisha 11:03
Yeah, so the thing about what we do, we don't, there's the training we did was never actually like going to view a birth. Because yeah, with emotional and support you like, you can't really give birth when there's a student, they're just like, watching you, it doesn't really make sense. Even though in hospitals, you will have student midwives and all that, which is just a bit crazy to me, because you wouldn't have a trainee birth worker like that. But you'd have medical professionals who are trainees, but obviously in your notes, and then your birth plan you can request to not have if you didn't want to. The first time I was at a birth was with, was through an organization called neighborhood doulas that basically offers birth and postnatal support to people who can't financially afford a doula. And also people with like, intersecting circumstances, like people who are asylum seekers, people who are in domestic violence situations. So basically, people that the current system don't know how to support and how it works is their midwife will basically refer them to us, when they are coming close to their due date, they'll basically be like, "do you have someone who's going to be there with during the birht?", and if they don't, and if they're also, in one of these other groups of people who are facing multiple issues, then they'll get a referral, and someone from our team of doulas will support them during that.
Jamila 12:40
So tell us about your first birth, then your first birth experience.
Amisha 12:44
So because I started during COVID, the first two people, I supported I couldn't actually attend the birth, so it was a third. So I actually supported them during pregnancy and postnatally. And I actually still have really good relationships and connections with them. But I was not actually at their birth. Because the midwives just basically wouldn't let me wouldn't let more than one person. And sometimes people have like, someone who will turn up last minute and basically be... So the first birth I was at was, yeah, it was just amazing. It was every time I've been at a birth, it has just like been this really incredible, magical moment, and every birth, I've been at has been completely different. I mean, I've been at 10 now, which isn't a huge number, considering there's midwives who will might have 10 births a week. But for me, that is, each one I go to holds like such a special memory for me.
Jamila 13:40
Okay, let's talk a little bit about because you're also focusing on I don't know, is it? How does it work like LGBTQ plus people? Can you be just black and brown, normative heteronormative and see you? Or do you have to be LGBTQ plus and brown?
Amisha 14:01
I mean, I'm open to clients. It doesn't matter what your race is, what your sexual orientation or gender orientation is. Just because from being at birth, I know. You can have anyone can have birth trauma. It doesn't even matter if you're in one of those groups. But obviously, I know that the system is more catered to you if you are white cisgendered straight. Yeah, so anyone can like, reach out to me.
Jamila 14:27
What are the issues? I did read earlier an article about how basically the medical system there is no research and there's no real I don't know processes to deal with the LGBTQ plus community growing and the different challenges. Also, mental challenges of you know, like even lesbian couples, apparently lesbian couples really exponentially grew over over the last years as parents and this whole idea of having a female partner who's not the biological, parent, etc. But even I wonder with the transgender men, being pregnant giving birth is a complicated process as well for them, isn't it about their gender identity? And then this process? So what what have you noticed? Or what are you passionate about?
Amisha 15:27
Yeah, I'd say the process itself is only difficult because the system is not catered to support those people with getting pregnant and during their pregnancy, birth and postnatally. Just because if you look at any perinatal unit in the UK, they all say like maternity this is our maternity wards, the bathrooms in, in this section are only for women. So it's really not designed to like, the language itself is not designed to include trans people. And I mean, even when you meet midwives, they're all like, "Are you excited to be a mum?", all of this stuff that's just very tailored towards like, straight cis women. Yeah, I think gradually, it's becoming more inclusive. Like, I think last month on the NHS, they put a page up, that was advice on getting pregnant if you're trans and tips during pregnancy, and support with like, chest feeding and things like that. But yeah, a lot of people just don't have the training, which is a bit sad, because there are people out there who are doing these trainings, for people to use more inclusive language, and just know what the issues and barriers are for trans people. But
Jamila 16:40
What are problems at the moment in regards to rights - do both parents have full rights? Or do you need to adopt? I feel like something was in the media recently, you know?
Amisha 16:51
Yeah. So for, as far as I know, unless they've changed it. If it's a lesbian couple, that's two women, then yeah, the second parent needs to adopt. If you're a non binary parent, that just like doesn't exist, basically. So you have to either say, you're like mother or father, if you're a trans man who gives birth, you're automatically on the birth certificate going to be put under the mother, and you need to legally somehow go through the process of getting that changed. And I think it is quite a long process.
Jamila 17:27
Yeah, and especially like, you've just given birth, you know, stressful enough, you don't want to have to do. I think, like, if your background is in education, I think you definitely should go into schools, and educate them a lot, because I told you in our email exchange that I'm running the pride club, in my school, and we've got a few transgender boys. And I think they would definitely be interested in ... they talked before, how they feel often excluded by the curriculum, and especially in biology, etc. So I think there is definitely, and I think, you know, staff would be open, I think just a lot of staff are feeling a bit insecure, you know, they don't want to say something wrong. So they don't, so they don't talk about it at all, you know?
Amisha 18:18
Yeah, I actually worked part time at a school over the past year. And I was like, covering lessons and sometimes basically sort of like a sub. And sometimes I would end up covering biology lessons. And yeah, it would just because their textbook that a lot of the textbooks were from, like 20 or 30 years ago, and teachers are like, stressed enough, they didn't want to have to rewrite all their materials, and change the language on things. But yeah, if there was someone there to just help them out with like a couple things, I can see how people would be open to it. Because even when like talking to kids about periods, and like, who can get pregnant, like it's not just women, and also there are women who can't get pregnant, cis women who can't get pregnant. And so we need to, I don't know,
Jamila 19:08
I just saying to you, this is a new income stream for you. If you designed a training program I reckon because because schools have to be inclusive.
Amisha 19:21
No, it really surprises me like how knowledgeable a lot of the kids are. I'm not trying to be patronizing or anything, but it was around the time of the like Roe versus Wade thing. And I just thought I'd like throw out to this like year eight class and see what they thought. I mean, all had so many great opinions and asking so many questions, and I was like, I don't know all the answers to all of these questions. Yeah, it was nice to see how passionate they were about abortion rights and stuff like that, which I don't think I was thinking about that much at their age.
Jamila 19:50
Yeah, no, our pride club it's very heavy on year sevens. So are there any events that are coming up from you or any other ways that people could get involved?
Amisha 20:02
Yeah, so me and a group of other queer birth workers in London are setting up a sort of like bumps and babies group. But it's also just for anyone who wants to be, wants to learn more about birth, and like parenting options for queer people. So the first event, the day isn't 100% set. So if you head over to my Instagram, you'll be able to find out more of the details for the event, but it's going to be on the topic of how to be a badass birth partner. And you don't have to know anyone who's pregnant. You don't have to be thinking about that right now it was just for any queer person who was sort of interested in what we do
Jamila 20:44
maybe they're just manifesting it you know, going there getting ready, just in case. And you're talking about Instagram, I was thinking like, at the moment you're, you're talking about, is it South Asian? Is it South Asian Awareness month or something?
Amisha 21:00
It is South Asian Heritage Month
Jamila 21:01
South Asians heritage month and you talk a little bit about birthing practices, or what's the topic?
Amisha 21:11
Yeah, so what I've been talking about is a mixture of like birthing practices, birthing practices, and also just how we can like be more inclusive as a community. And I think part of what I do as a birth worker is trying to bring back all those traditions and those sort of, like practices that were more common, like, pre colonially, but now we've lost a lot of that, sort of, like knowledge. And a lot, a lot of stuff around like either like medicine and like herbal medicine, which I'm just sort of like, trying to learn myself. And yeah, how important that can be, especially in the postnatal period.
Jamila 21:49
Okay. So, very cute Instagram, you've also got a little blog on your website.
Amisha 21:57
Yeah, I'm just starting to get that up. So
Jamila 22:01
Just keep going with it. And okay, so do you have any top tips from your from your recent experience, you know, like a place that welcomed you with open arms?
Amisha 22:13
In Tottenham?
Jamila 22:14
Yeah. Or Haringey.
Amisha 22:16
A place that I mean, I can tell you a top food place,
Jamila 22:21
okay.
Amisha 22:21
Which on West Green Road is the French crepes. Okay. I don't know if people know about it a but it's sort of like a window in the wall. But this is two guys that make crepes. And they're like, absolutely amazing. I also just really like the parks and like the amount of nature here, there's Downhills Park near me. Also, I don't think this is technically Tottenham, but in Walthamstow, there's the wetlands, which is beautiful. There's also a really beautiful, sort of like , it's sort of in that like, gentrified area of Manor manor house. So it's part of their whole new building blocks, but anyone can just go in there and look at their like nature and wander whatever. I think it's called Woodbury farm Woodbury something, but it's really beautiful. And I'd recommend Yeah.
Jamila 23:20
So you're all about the nature. What about so your your background is Sri Lanka and I've been twice I love Sri Lankan food, but we are a little bit ... there used to be one on West Green road. I mean, it was terrible service. Like I remember when we went it was like two hours, but it was really good food. And I think on green lanes, there was a restaurant as well, but I think they close as well. But otherwise we don't have much ...
Amisha 23:41
There isn't. No because I've been looking Yeah, for like actually in - yeah not in Tottenham, but I know one opened in Islington, which isn't that far. And I think it's called the Tamil Prince. And it literally just opened like a month ago. But yeah, I've been looking for places have not found any,
Jamila 24:01
maybe you need to open one. I'm giving you all these job, job advice, just so I can have some Sri Lankan food. Thank you very much for being on the pod.
Amisha 24:12
Thank you so much for having me.
Jamila 24:14
Okay, have a lovely day - bye.
So I think that was another really interesting and informative session. I will link Amisha's Instagram and her blog in the show notes. And we recorded this in August back in August. She has run the first session in September. If you look on her Instagram, she she did some posts about this. And I spoke to her earlier and she said the next meeting is on Broadwater Farm Community Center on Saturday, the 22nd of October from 12 to two. So there isn't anything on Instagram at the moment, but I'm assuming she will publish that as well. So if you're interested that is the next event that she will be running. Okay, so I hope you had a nice listen there I hope you enjoyed today's episode, learned something new and let that Tottenham love grow. Take care and until next time, bye
Transcribed by https://otter.ai