Episode 303: "You Like Batman, Don't You, Sara?"

Sara got really into this comic book character, have you ever heard of him? Wears a cape? Fights crime? Has a cool car?

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Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:20

This is The Gorge, the podcast my friends and I get together and we gorge ourselves on what's happening in the world of video games and entertainment.

SPEAKER_10 0:27

The Gorge is brought to you by Patreon. That's patreon.com slash TheGorge, where for just three dollars a month you gain access to all of our uh bonus content. Everything from oh god video or excuse me, podcast about Type Moon to Transformers um to early access to our uh our TTRPG series, a reboot. Uh all of that is just three bucks a month um at patreon.com slash the gorge. Also, it gets you pictures of my dog, which is the most important part of joining the joining the Patreon.

SPEAKER_07 1:03

So you also get early access to our uh live stream uh playthrough of Ace Turning Investigations 2 and LA Wall when I remember to upload those videos uh to the video.

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If you ever go back to those, yeah, you know, it's fine.

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People on the Discord, if you're listening to this, remind me to put that on put that on Patreon so that you can actually get your money's worth.

SPEAKER_10 1:23

I will. I will remind you.

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I won't, because I'll forget immediately.

SPEAKER_10 1:29

Uh all that and more. Patreon.com slash the gorge. That was an easy ad read for once. Uh hey, it's a roundup episode, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:38

Yes, it is. Uh we're finally back to just doing regular roundups for the first time in God. We have I don't think we've done one since uh last year.

SPEAKER_10 1:53

Yeah, that's good. That's fine by me. We're uh that's fine. Video game news can be really depressing these days, so I don't mind.

SPEAKER_07 2:00

Yeah. Me. Oh that's right. Oh no, we did one in March, that's right. But but it was a it was a nicer one. But yeah, but still, it's been a while.

SPEAKER_10 2:08

Yeah, it's been a hot minute. Um Roundups mostly exist to talk about what we've been up to. Yeah. And the whole reason this roundup exists is because Ben wants me to talk about what I've been up to. Motherfucker.

SPEAKER_07 2:22

You like Batman, don't you, Sarah?

SPEAKER_10 2:26

I hate you so much. I should just kill myself. Somebody put me in front of a firing squad. It's so embarrassing. There's nothing more embarrassing in the world than being like a certified grade A Western comics hater, right? For like 30 something years of your life, just being like, I don't know, dog, it's not my thing. And then you spend a couple of months watching like the fucking DCAU, and you can like feel your brain being actively cooked in real time, and suddenly you're like, fuck, I gotta read some Batman comics to like fix this.

SPEAKER_04 2:56

You would okay, um, Sarah, I I do actually have a quick question. Uh, how many lights do you see right now?

SPEAKER_10 3:05

There are three lights.

SPEAKER_04 3:08

Are you entirely sure that there are only three lights? Would there perhaps be a different number of lights?

SPEAKER_07 3:16

The thing that I find most curious about it though, by the way, for one thing, is that there's part of me that's like, yes, fucking finally, I I've I've trapped her, I've tricked her into this. Uh it was a long game that took me uh how long have we been friends? 18 years?

SPEAKER_10 3:31

Longer than 18 years, almost 20 years, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 3:33

Uh to be like, aha, finally you're trapped in my web. But also, in the in the time we've known each other, you've probably heard me complain about comics 70% more than I've like talked about how much I like comics.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

I know.

SPEAKER_04 3:52

She she's a she's aware of how it looks too.

SPEAKER_10 3:55

Yeah, no, that's the embarrassing part, right? This is the shame is the fact that, like, again, certified Western comic book hater. Um, and then I spent a little too long watching a couple of cartoons, and now my brain is like boiled. Um it's bad. It's really bad. Because like the biggest thing, I mean, we talked about my having played Fallout New Vegas, and I still want to do those episodes at some point, but you know. Um but in between then and now I have not done anything super new except for the fact that I have watched a lot of the DCAU since then. Um because like we were we were going through Batman and Superman at a pretty like reasonable clip, right? Like a couple episodes a week type shit, right? Just you know, anytime we're bored and sitting around, it's like, hey, you know, eating dinner. It's like, hey, do you want to watch some Batman or some Superman? It's like, hey, sure, let's watch Batman or some Superman. Um and then we got the Batman Beyond, which I really like a lot. Um, and it was like, no, even in like when I should be doing other things, I'd rather be watching Batman, which is what happened. So we uh fucking chewed through Beyond. That show is really good still. Um it's crazy. Okay, two things. One, it's crazy that they basically canned OG Batman for Batman Beyond because they're like, we want a version of Batman that's like a teenager, and Bruce Tim was like, What the fuck do you mean you want a version of Batman as a teenager? Right. Um and then they made the best Spider-Man cartoon ever made, hands down. Um and then two, they're like, we want to be more kid friendly, and there's a lot of not very kid friendly things in Batman Beyond. He kind of owns. Um Terry has the craziest body count of like any children's cartoon, and it's never his fault because it's a children's cartoon, right? Right? Um, most of these bad these bad guys do it to themselves, but I mean, still most of these motherfuckers end up dead.

SPEAKER_04 6:03

I mean, we live in America, Sarah. There's nothing more child friendly than murder.

SPEAKER_07 6:06

That's true. The Bruce Tim method, especially for like Beyond and even a lot of Justice League, um, was go too far.

SPEAKER_10 6:18

Right.

SPEAKER_07 6:19

And then the executives would say, No, you can't do that, and then they would scale back to what they wanted to do in the first place. That is the anti-Todd Howard method.

SPEAKER_10 6:28

The graphic designer method, yeah, absolutely. That's just what any graphic designer worth their salt does.

SPEAKER_04 6:34

That's also uh famously what the uh character, the creature concept artist for Marrowind did to Todd Howard constantly, where he'd draw the thing he wanted to do and then draw a boring version and then a really extreme version, and then show Todd the boring version, the extreme version, be like, I kind of prefer the extreme version. What do you think, Todd? He's like, I don't know, can you like do something kind of in the middle there? He's like, oh, you mean like this? And then this is the one he actually wanted to do, and Todd's like, yeah, exactly like that.

SPEAKER_07 7:00

It's it also reminds me a lot of the of uh Alex H Alex Hirsch talking about Gravity Falls, being like, as long as you don't actually show a corpse, you can do a lot of things.

SPEAKER_10 7:10

You can do so much, it's crazy. Um yeah, no, all we watched all of uh Batman Beyond. That show is really good. Um, it's really obvious they kind of just canned it very abruptly in its third season because it just kind of ends. Like it doesn't have like a finale, right? It just kind of ends. Um but that's fine because then we got to watch Return of the Joker, which is so goddamn good. It makes me mad.

SPEAKER_07 7:40

The more I think about it, the more I think Return of the Joker is the best Batman movie.

SPEAKER_10 7:46

It's crazy how good it is. Because one, it's crazy that I think I like it more than Mask of the Phantasm, and I really like Mask of the Phantasm like a lot. Um that movie's really, really good. And I like Phantasm a lot because it's just like 70% of it is just a bog standard noir movie about like about like a guy who's in love and then it turns out the chick he's in love with is a murderer. Like that's a plot of Mask of the Phantasm if you take out all the Batman stuff, right? Right, and that's just a fucking noir movie, right? Like that's double indemnity in a way. Right. Um, which is a great movie. Um and even then, I still think I like Return of the Joker more, despite how much I like Phantasm. And it's just because I've talked about this a couple times already, but I gotta get it out of my system at least one more time. Phantasm is Return of the Joker is really smartly scripted, and it's it's kind of crazy. It is so it is 75 minutes long, it's not even official feature length. A feature-length movie is 90 minutes a bare minimum, right? That's that's what's considered a feature-length. Um this is not even a feature-length movie, and it is more tightly and smartly scripted than movies three times its length, right? Like every single scene is I mean, it's just it's just really it's a very brisk story, right? But it tells you everything it wants you to know. It doesn't waste any of your time. Um, I if you wanted to push it to feature length and add an extra 15 minutes, I literally don't know what you would add that would not make it feel bloated, right?

SPEAKER_07 9:46

Right, no, I agree. I've seen this movie uh well over a dozen times.

SPEAKER_10 9:51

And it's so good, it is absurdly beautifully animated. Like, it is so gorgeous, it makes me angry. Just because, like, oh, it could just always be like this. And they're and like they keep making these DC animated new movies in fucking 2026. They all look awful, they don't have the same kind of like like clarity of of action that this movie has. It's just gorgeous. I mean it's it's a fucking it's TMS, it's like it's Tokyo Tokyo movie Shuesha, I think is is the I think that's the abbreviation. Um and they've done all kinds of things. They do lot like lupon movies and stuff like that, right? Um it's just really good. I don't know. I it's like a thing that you it's kind of even hard to articulate unless you watch it, in which case Saturn, I would watch. I know you have not seen this movie, I will watch Return of the Joker.

SPEAKER_04 10:57

I I've seen the movie just a very, very, very long time ago.

SPEAKER_07 11:00

Return of the Return of the Joker is a lot like Transformers 86, where you can just put it, you can just put it on.

SPEAKER_10 11:10

You can just put it on, but unlike Transformers 86, which is kind of dumb and meandering, um, and it's like like you couldn't put Return of the Joker on in the background at a bar. I think it would bum everybody out.

SPEAKER_04 11:22

Probably. I mean now I will say I I I do have to give something Transformers 1986. You could definitely improve Return of the Joker by having Weird Out in it. That's correct.

SPEAKER_07 11:36

If there's one thing that I mean, I haven't watched all the DCA, so maybe I'm wrong. The one thing the DCAU does not have that I think is missing out is uh appearance by Weird Out Yankovic.

SPEAKER_10 11:46

I mean, fuck, Justice League Unlimited has so many goddamn characters, he might be in there. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 11:51

I know I know he plays he plays Dark Side in the Teen Titans Go cartoon.

SPEAKER_04 11:56

That's so funny. I'm gonna make a bold proposal. You know that that uh Batman reboot movie they did with Robert Patton's son? Yeah. They make a they big they make Batman 2 and Weird Owl is in it as the Riddler.

SPEAKER_09 12:11

Right.

SPEAKER_04 12:11

But he's the Riddler was already in the first movie. First time.

SPEAKER_09 12:14

I don't fucking know. I didn't see it.

SPEAKER_04 12:16

Recapped him!

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Paul Dano is the Riddler!

SPEAKER_04 12:23

Paul Dano came out of there!

SPEAKER_07 12:26

You know who Weird Owl should be? Is not the Joker, but the trickster. I don't fucking know. You've seen the trickster. He's a Batman! He's the Greek yellow skin guy.

SPEAKER_10 12:38

Oh, he's the he's the knockoff joker character that looks like he jumped out of an episode of Freakazoid.

SPEAKER_04 12:43

I do know Weird Owl deserves more dignity than being like given some fucking mo they have lying around.

SPEAKER_07 12:50

Who's who is uh the yellow skin guy?

SPEAKER_10 12:53

That was the trickster.

SPEAKER_07 12:54

No, the trickster is a different guy. He's he's a uh flash villain.

SPEAKER_10 12:58

No, but I know who you're talking about.

SPEAKER_07 13:00

The one who is like a fucking He looks like the Joker, but he's got he's like a uh yellow skin, yeah, and he's like a remote person.

SPEAKER_10 13:06

The creeper. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:07

Okay, okay, okay. How about okay, can we give him Man Bat?

SPEAKER_10 13:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 13:12

Ooh.

SPEAKER_10 13:12

I think we should give him Man-Bat. That's fine by me.

SPEAKER_04 13:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 13:15

Man Bat can have curly hair. It's chill. Um, but yeah, no. That I just it's so it's so good. Return of the Joker's so fucking good. It's so fucking good. It's so smart. The whole final bit where you get Terry getting to just like laugh at the Joker, and you realize that this is like the best characterization, and they kind of do it a little bit in like Batman the Animated Series, but the movie, like the Return of the Joker plays into it really hard. Is my favorite character trait to give the Joker, which is you can dish it out, but you can't take it.

SPEAKER_07 13:54

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_10 13:55

It's such a good character thing for a villain like that to just be like, Oh yeah, you like being the funny guy when you're the funny guy, but if somebody's laughing at you, it pisses you off. And like the whole final confrontation with like Terry, it's really good, and like you really get his voice actor just having a blast. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_07 14:21

There's there's there's a shot that I that I I think about like ever since I saw it, I think about it constantly. Is when Terry's like in the shadows in the rafters, yeah, and he's kind of giving that really dark monologue, like that really low tone of his voice, and the Joker's trying to find him, and then you see the light from the laser beam creeping into the windows and illuminating him.

SPEAKER_10 14:43

Yeah, it's so good. It's so good. It's it's crazy. You have a it's like a Batman movie that involves a fucking orbital laser, and that should be so corny, but like it works so well. I don't know, it's just really good. It's a great movie.

SPEAKER_07 15:00

God, that fuck that fucking the minute when Terry was like, wait, I like to laugh, I like to talk too.

SPEAKER_10 15:05

I like to talk to just like where he realizes he's the fuck he's like it's that moment where he realizes he's a Spider-Man, right?

SPEAKER_07 15:12

Yeah, and um it's what convinces people where it's like you know, you swap Peter Parker and Bruce Wayne's Rogues Galleries, who comes out on top, and Spider-Man takes it easily because he could he would trash the Joker in an instant.

SPEAKER_10 15:23

He'd trash these guys, absolutely. He dog walks the Joker and it rules.

SPEAKER_07 15:27

Like he already fights a Joker and that Joker throws pumpkin bombs and rides around on a glider.

unknown 15:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:32

Well, have we considered giving the Joker access to pumpkin bombs and a glider? It still puts Peter would still dog walk him.

SPEAKER_10 15:40

The thing is, and like that's the thing is that it's not just that like Batman Beyond is not just like, oh, Batman is now a 16-year-old kid whose father slash father figure was killed, you know, in a crime, and he feels responsible for it, so he's a Spider-Man. No, his primary, like, villain, the guy who killed his dad, is a green skull faced guy who throws green fire. Yeah, he's like a ri he's like a rich CEO asshole. And you're like, this isn't even it's not even son. You're not even there trying.

SPEAKER_07 16:14

He fights the evil Fantastic Four in one episode.

SPEAKER_10 16:17

He fights the evil Fantastic Four, but it's just three guys because they smartly roll um, they smartly roll Johnny and the thing into one guy. Yeah, which is cool. Uh it just it whips.

SPEAKER_04 16:30

It's it's so good.

SPEAKER_10 16:31

It's a really good show.

SPEAKER_04 16:33

I I do I I am still stuck on the thing you mentioned earlier of them uh like pivoting to that because they wanted a more uh child-friendly Batman cartoon and just thinking like Bruce Bruce Tim just like, well, we got a problem with that, which is first of all, I'm still here.

SPEAKER_10 16:47

Yeah. Step one, you have to fire me first. Bruce Tim, the ultimate um flirting versus sexual harassment vis-a-vis him and Rick Burman. Right. A man who knows exactly what he's about uh when it comes to his taste in women, and every single female character in a Bruce Tim joint is a banger. They're all good, like the original ones kick ass. Bruce Tim came up with Harley Quinn, right?

SPEAKER_04 17:17

Yeah, the throating versus harassment is is uh Bruce Tim going, I think I'm going to put a woman in a skin tight spandex bodysuit and nothing else. Everyone's like, fuck yeah, dude, that sounds great. And then when Rick Burman does it, he's like, dude, we need you to stop making Star Trek immediately.

SPEAKER_10 17:34

You need to go away right now. Leave seven of nine alone, please.

SPEAKER_07 17:38

Bruce Bruce Tim invented Harley Quinn, which is both a blessing and a curse.

SPEAKER_10 17:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 17:43

I I choose to believe it is a blessing. Well, it was it was a blessing for a really long time, and recently it's more been more of a curse.

SPEAKER_10 17:49

You know, it's fine. We we go through uh ebbs and flows.

SPEAKER_04 17:53

It's not Bruce Tim or Harley Quinn's fault that the people who really like DC, DC Cinematic Universe and Marvel Cinematic Universe in the year of our Lord, uh 2009 to 2020, whatever, uh are uh statistically more likely to be colossal chuds.

SPEAKER_10 18:15

That's correct.

SPEAKER_04 18:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 18:16

It's you know, it's not Bruce Timm's fault. Bruce Timm.

SPEAKER_04 18:20

Suicide Squad Harley Quinn is not Bruce Timm's fault. No, and I like Margot Robbie, but I like Margot Robbie, I just think like in terms of the aesthetics of that first movie and like the clothes they're putting her in and shit like that.

SPEAKER_07 18:30

Specifically the the the pink and blue dyed hair Harley Quinn has been a curse.

SPEAKER_10 18:35

It's so corny. I hate it. But no, like Bruce Tim was like, no, she she has to be a hot clown girl. Like, 100%. She's gotta wear the Harlequinn outfit and and but she's just gotta have personality for days. And speaking of that, and return the Joker, it's crazy to me that the DDs are only in one thing because the DDs are so good. Uh keep watching. How does he do it? Oh, good. Keep watching. I'm really looking forward to the uh epilogue art of.

SPEAKER_07 19:06

Well, not not epilogue. Uh there's a really there's a much, much better appear Terry appearance in Justice League uh Unlimited later on. Yes. Oh good. Yes, he shows up, he shows up earlier than that. So good.

SPEAKER_10 19:20

Excellent. Because like the DDs. The DDs kick ass. They're such a good design. Yeah. Um and it just feels like I don't know. See the movie. The thing is that like the movie It feels like such a shame that those guys weren't your primary jokers for the whole Batman beyond, right?

SPEAKER_07 19:43

The problem with that is that they're too cool and the jokers have to suck.

SPEAKER_10 19:46

Yeah, the jokers do have to suck, right? That's the whole thing.

SPEAKER_07 19:49

The whole the whole point is that the greatest uh monster Gotham has ever known has been reduced to a bunch of punk ass kids smashing mailboxes.

SPEAKER_10 19:57

That's fair. That's fair. Um but the the DDs are so good. I love their design. I love how they're animated.

SPEAKER_07 20:04

Did you uh did you uh get the joke at the very end?

SPEAKER_10 20:08

Of course, that's Harley. Yeah, yeah, of course. I knew as soon as she opened her mouth that that was uh that was um oh my god, what's Harley's voice actress?

SPEAKER_07 20:17

Arlene Sorkin.

SPEAKER_10 20:18

Arlene Sorkin, yeah. As soon as she opened her mouth, I was like, I get it. That's good.

SPEAKER_04 20:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 20:28

I feel like that was probably intentional.

SPEAKER_04 20:30

It might have been, yeah. I I recall Left 4 Dead 2 and and Rochelle's voice actress being a woman called Roch, like named Rochelle, and it's like, how do you how do you land on that? You know?

SPEAKER_10 20:41

Yeah, crazy creativity. I feel like it probably. I mean, knowing Bruce Tim, and I don't know like the the origins of Harley as a character, but I feel like he designed Harley and then settled on the name Harlene because he specifically was like, Well, this is a character who should be voiced by Arlene Sorkin, right? Yeah, that would be funny. And then he worked backwards to the name Harleen Quinzel, right? Which makes sense.

SPEAKER_07 21:11

Yeah. I think she was originally just supposed to be like a one-off. Like she's supposed to be just like, you know, the like the uh just a random side henchman that the Joker can bounce off of.

SPEAKER_04 21:21

Oh, uh there is actually oh, it's not for Harleen, it's for Harley for the name. They they are something about the the name, like the origin of the name Harley Quinn, which is literally just uh Paul Denis, like well, I mean, all the other Batman character names are puns, so uh there you go.

SPEAKER_10 21:39

Uh yeah, and I I hate to always like attribute it to Bruce Tim because Paul Dini is Paul Dini does a lot of work, too. Yeah, he does a lot of work. I mean, again, he literally married Zatana. He just married a Zatana cosplayer, aka somebody who cosplays his character, his ideal woman. Um, he got to marry a Zatana cosplayer, and they're perfectly happy together. Um, so I can't always give it to Bruce Tim. It's also that Pauldini is a genius and they work together extremely well. Um but yeah, no, I have uh been extremely enjoying all of my time with the DCAU. Um I gotta say though, the first like season, we're in the first season of Justice League now. Man, that shit's boring as fuck, y'all.

SPEAKER_07 22:25

It takes a little bit. I know it takes a while to find its legs. Yeah, first season of Justice League has a lot of I I would say they're they're not necessarily bad, but they're kind of like they're not utilizing the series the way that like Batman and Superman did.

SPEAKER_10 22:42

Right.

SPEAKER_07 22:43

Like they're not they're not capitalizing on we get to reinvent all these characters now.

SPEAKER_10 22:48

Yeah, it's just very and I mean it's not bad, it's just kinda dull. And this is perfectly watchable and even occasionally good.

SPEAKER_04 22:57

But oh, uh, I do have some additional information for for Harley Quinn. Two, they're funny. The first is uh about the origin of uh her uh about the origin of her name, uh the actual name. Uh her full name's established to be Harleen Francis Quinzel. Harleen Francis was taken from Sorkin's uh first and middle name, Arlene Francis. So Arlene is literally named after Arlene Sorkin. Quinzel apparently comes from uh one of Denise's former college instructors, whose last name was Quinzel.

SPEAKER_09 23:33

Great. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 23:34

Um the other the other fun thing is that uh apparently uh Bruce Tim originally didn't want to bring her back and had to be convinced. Because Paul Denis was was was very like, we gotta have more more Harley Quinn. And then Bruce Timm was originally like, no, Joker having like a girl goon around is going to make him seem too humanized and less of like an insane psychopath actual threat. But then literally everybody who worked on the show wanted to do more episodes with Harley Quinn, and he's sort of like, well, okay. Fine. Alright.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Alright, that's fair.

SPEAKER_10 24:10

Um, and I mean he's kind of like if it hadn't been handled better, he would have been right. But the fact that he's so shitty to Harley, despite her being like functionally the perfect woman, um is what makes it work. So it's fine. Um, and also if you don't have Harley, you don't have the best episode of Batman the Animated Series, which is Harley's uh Harley Takes a Holiday, right? Is that the name of that episode? The one that it's the Harley-centric episode where she tries to go good and it all goes horribly wrong. Yeah. Um it's a really good one. It's probably my favorite one, and you can't have that without Harley being a main character, so it works out. Um yeah, I it's just it's fine. I'm super normal about all of it. Um, I'm really enjoying myself, and now I can feel myself becoming more and more mentally ill as I watch more DC uh cartoons, and I'm like, well shit. Now I'm pestering everybody I know who likes comic books to be like, hey, can I get some recommendations? What are the good ones? What are the good ones? And also I need every single piece of comic book that was drawn by Dan Mora.

SPEAKER_07 25:30

God, he's so good, isn't he?

SPEAKER_10 25:33

He's so good. He's so good, he's so smart. Um Yeah. Unfortunately. So there's no hope for me. It's so embarrassing. This all just goes back to the fact that this is like the most this is my most embarrassing character arc of all time. Of just having to make peace with myself and the fact that I really need more Batman. Bat fucking Batman of all things, right? Like how shameful.

SPEAKER_07 26:02

Like not even not even you're not even like like, oh, I'm really into like like an obscure B Lister pick. Like a uh uh, you know, kind of cool character that no one would expect.

SPEAKER_04 26:12

You're Batman.

SPEAKER_10 26:13

It's Batman.

SPEAKER_04 26:14

Oh, what's that that Tumblr post about like about finding the two the 2025 Superman actor attractive? Like, wow, should should do you want a medal? Should we tell everybody that you find him attractive?

SPEAKER_10 26:26

Hear me out and it's a fucking marching band? Come on, I should be killed. It's so embarrassing.

SPEAKER_04 26:32

I forgot that's where I got that from. What? I keep saying I should be killed a lot lately.

SPEAKER_10 26:37

I forgot about that post.

SPEAKER_04 26:41

I mean, I don't know, I get it. I I I think of like the the I mean, irrespective of any like not my type, let's say, for the most part, but like uh irrespective of any other considerations. For like the major heroes, I think Batman's probably my favorite as well. It's cool. I think it's just like I I mean it's less about like the like he's got a fun rogues gallery, and like I think, but I think for me it's mostly that because he's like a unpowered hero, that his the like action stuff's a little more down-to-earth by like it has to be. You don't get to have the and I was gonna say, you don't get to have the story where Batman's like shooting lasers out of his eyes out of like a out of like a galactic space guy, but which is to say that story probably exists, and I can guarantee that it's bad.

SPEAKER_10 27:27

Yeah, the the funniest part of any given episode of Justice League is the fact that Batman can't fly, but is always clowning on the rest of the Justice League by being the coolest guy in the room.

SPEAKER_07 27:38

Um like I'm I'm not one to talk. If I had to like, because you know, if I had to pick a favorite DC superhero, it would it would be Batman.

SPEAKER_10 27:46

It'd be Batman. It'd be Batman. Unfortunately, it would be Batman. I hate it. He's cool. It's he's cool. I'm sorry. He's really cool. I hate it. Trust me, it's very, very embarrassing to be me right now. Um every now and then. Oates is not here, but every now and then she will just hear me howl from the next room. I'm so annoying. Umnoyed by myself about all of this.

SPEAKER_07 28:09

It would be different if you were if you like came on the podcast and you were like, Man, I've getting really into dead shot lately.

SPEAKER_10 28:15

That would make more sense and sound more correct. But no, Batman.

SPEAKER_07 28:19

You're like, oh, I only have uh let me look here, 15 issues worth of material to be obsessed with.

SPEAKER_10 28:25

Right, that's correct. Um, but no, I I have chill oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 28:30

This this cashier this cashier is his lady love out there.

SPEAKER_07 28:36

Yeah, we can hear cash. Rare, rare guest appearance from cash.

SPEAKER_10 28:40

He's he's he's two rooms over. That's how loud he can be sometimes. Um, it's so embarrassing. I really truly hate myself for this one.

SPEAKER_07 28:53

How how you how you like an Arkham Asylum, by the way.

SPEAKER_10 28:56

I haven't had a chance to play much of it only because um one, I've been busy with other stuff and just kind of life, so I haven't had a chance to go fiddle with like getting the advanced uh the advanced settings thing set up. Um because I did start to play it and I really enjoyed it, but unfortunately I have a 4K TV and when I set the game to 4K, I could not read anything on my screen. Um I couldn't read any of the the subtitles anymore.

SPEAKER_07 29:30

I did see there might be a makeshift workaround you can do. Um where you there's there's a an upscale texture pack you can mod in, and then you can just bump the resolution down to like 1080.

SPEAKER_10 29:43

Oh, that's not a bad idea. Okay. Uh I might do that because uh I do want to play it.

SPEAKER_07 29:49

I have I you know look if you're if you're if you're like I really wanna I really liked the DCAU and I want something that's similar, that experience, but like a bit more edge, then Arkham Games is just Yeah, it's fun.

SPEAKER_10 30:05

I mean it's literally Mark Hamill and Kevin Conroy again, right? Like, of course you're you're gonna go in for that alone.

SPEAKER_07 30:13

It is funny, like you're probably getting it probably hits you a little bit harder because you just came from it, but like going back and watching like early Batman animated series clips and then watching clips of like the Arkham games and hearing how old Mark Hamill and Kevin Conroy are.

SPEAKER_10 30:34

Uh so sad. I can't nope, I can't think of Kevin Conroy for more than like 15 seconds before going.

SPEAKER_00 30:41

I know.

SPEAKER_10 30:42

I can't stand it. I can't bear it. Um it's he's just he's just so good. The reason everybody is still like obsessed with Kevin Conroy is because literally nobody else can do it.

SPEAKER_07 30:58

Yeah, no one else did it like him.

SPEAKER_10 30:59

Nobody else can do it.

SPEAKER_07 31:01

There are definitely other good Batman voice actors. Sure. Uh, but like Kevin Conroy just took that character and like locked it in forever.

SPEAKER_10 31:14

He's because like there's this there's this concept of like actors who are good Batman but not good Bruce Wayne, and vice versa, right? Yeah that's a very common thing that people talk about a lot um because they're like you know, George Clooney is a really good Bruce Wayne, but not a very believable Batman, if that makes sense, right? But like Kevin Conroy is so good at both sides, he's sweet because like he has he's doing he's doing different voices for Batman and Bruce Wayne, right? Right, but he's not doing dumb gravel voice like in the fucking Christopher Nolan movies, right? It's literally like two different people. He's he's the only one who gets it that like you're playing two completely different people.

SPEAKER_07 32:06

Well, you know who else gets it? It's Terry McGuinness's voice actor.

SPEAKER_10 32:10

Terry McGuinness's voice actor is really, really good at it, too. Absolutely, yes.

SPEAKER_07 32:14

He just adds that little bit of edge, a little bit of bring it down a little bit.

SPEAKER_10 32:18

Will Friedel?

SPEAKER_07 32:19

Will Friedel, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 32:20

Yeah, Will Friedel is really good at it. Um, but like Kevin Conroy just got it, man. He just plays those two characters completely differently without having to lean super hard into like a very forced, gravelly voice, right? Like he just kind of understood the assignment and and nobody does it as good. And he brings so much like affection and warmth and all that stuff, and you're just like, oh my god, Kevin Conroy. Um yeah. So that's all I got. That's all I got. I could probably keep talking. I just could keep talking about Return of the Joker forever. Um, there's so many little specific scenes in it.

SPEAKER_07 33:06

We should do a takeout of Return of the Joker, just for funsies.

SPEAKER_10 33:09

It would just be me howling for 75 minutes at the good ass animation. Um and and like the smart writing and all that shit, but fuck yeah, I'll do a take. Oh, put a gun to my head and make me Joker again.

SPEAKER_07 33:25

Oh, oh no, that what's next?

SPEAKER_10 33:29

I guess because yeah, right. I guess because I've already watched it once, I can talk over it, but like I just I would just embarrass myself for 75 minutes, right? Just hooting and hollering.

SPEAKER_07 33:40

I think I think that's the holy trinity of movies for me that I could just I could just put on at any time. It's sure eight Transformers 86, Speed Racer, and Return of the Joker.

SPEAKER_10 33:49

That's such a good trinity. That's a really good decision. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 33:54

Fuck it. I'm always I'm always in the mood for that. What are you talking like anytime?

SPEAKER_10 33:58

Yeah, absolutely. Um fuck shit, maybe. Sure, why not? I'll watch that movie again. Fuck, okay. You know, Batman's Batman's cool. That way I can like at least get more of my my absolute fucking Bruce Wayne derangement syndrome out of my system.

SPEAKER_07 34:16

Um it's kind of like what I was I talked about with with like Wolverine a while back, where it's like you take it for granted, but then you really think about it and you're like, man, no, everyone's right.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

It pisses me off. I hate it.

SPEAKER_07 34:32

You're like, is is Batman like overplayed? Like, is it is it like do we get is it like too much Batman? Then you're like, no, he kind of is that cool.

SPEAKER_10 34:41

He actually is that guy. Like, he really is that guy, right? He's him. Um, and it pisses me off. It makes me so mad. Like, that's just all it boils down to. Like, if this is I'm just constantly getting annoyed at myself. How much fucking Justice Lady? I'm like, that's my boyfriend, and then I'm like, you're talking about that man.

SPEAKER_07 34:59

You're like, it's like it's like if this attention was maybe poured under like the green arrow, you'd be like, eh, not him. That's you're you're kind of you're kind of pushing this character a bit.

SPEAKER_04 35:10

I feel I feel like it is only possible to like Green Arrow if you were a strictly heterosexual woman.

SPEAKER_10 35:15

I don't know, or you're just like the most communist of all time. Yeah. Right? And you're like, I can only like other characters like that.

SPEAKER_04 35:22

I mean, I don't mean like dis I don't mean like like whether you respect him. I mean like whether or not you think like the one DC hero I want to fuck, definitely the Green Lantern.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:32

The problem is Black Canary can fight.

SPEAKER_10 35:34

Yeah, she can. She will beat your ass. Um fucking hell, man.

SPEAKER_07 35:40

Yeah, I'm sorry, Sarah. I'm sorry, my I'm sorry, my uh my uh cryptic warnings for the past 20 years did nothing to you, and you still got pulled into the siren's trap.

SPEAKER_04 35:52

Now look, all all you need to do to detox is you just need to get back to Zeta. And there's there's a different there's a different thing that will make you insane in different ways there.

SPEAKER_07 36:02

Oh, the Zeta Project, the DCAU short-lived series? No, Ben.

SPEAKER_10 36:07

Yeah, no, here. Uh fucking, yeah, Saturn. Let me switch from Bruce Wayne to Char Rasnibel. I'm sure that is that's like fucking oh no, I'm dying of cyanide poisoning. Here, real quick, let me drink this bleach.

SPEAKER_04 36:21

That's a lateral move. Well, I can't hurt at that point. Look, maybe you drink the bleach and it makes you throw out the cyanide you ingested.

SPEAKER_10 36:32

I mean, you're not wrong. Shit, fuck.

SPEAKER_07 36:35

No, I mean, I mean, if you if you really want if you really want to break the curse, I mean you're gonna have to start watching like Beware of the Batman.

SPEAKER_10 36:44

No, I want good things in my life. I don't want bat.

SPEAKER_03 36:47

Oh, don't don't watch don't watch Zeta Gun.

SPEAKER_10 36:52

I just want good things in my life. Um yeah. Fucking Batman. Fucking Batman. Do you know how mad I am about this? I'm so annoyed. I'm so annoying. It's fine.

SPEAKER_07 37:04

It's fine, don't worry. He is he's he is that cool. It's it's respectable.

SPEAKER_10 37:07

That's fucking bullshit. You watch you watch Justice League, you know, like shit, he's so cool.

SPEAKER_07 37:13

Did you get to the episode where he's falling and he's like Batman to all points? I need some air support since I can't fly.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

I haven't gotten to that one yet.

SPEAKER_07 37:22

The thing is, the thing is is despite what he what the whole crux of Return of the Joker is Animated DCAU Batman is funny.

SPEAKER_10 37:31

He's funny. He's funny, he's got good jokes.

SPEAKER_07 37:34

He's got he's got a bit every so often.

SPEAKER_10 37:36

You know, every now and then he cracks a joke and you're just like, fuck yeah, man. Um I literally don't think I have anything else to talk about. I just had to get that out of my system and I probably keep going.

SPEAKER_04 37:47

Um my only uh resounding thing is that I want to see them uh do Batman stuff with that uh uh tokasatsu inspired design more. I don't know what just like I want to see. I want to see that in like a movie or a video game or something. That makes me happy. God, that'd be cool.

SPEAKER_10 38:04

I think a lot since I started watching Batman Beyond about the the Batman Beyond movie they pitched and didn't get picked up.

SPEAKER_07 38:12

Oh, the Spider-Verse style one?

SPEAKER_10 38:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 38:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 38:16

And I'm just like, one day, David's ass love, you're gonna have to face God. They were see the- And he's gonna be a Batman fan, and he's gonna be fucking pissed.

SPEAKER_07 38:28

The only problem with that would have been the fact that they would have to figure out how to do his mask in 3D.

SPEAKER_10 38:36

Honestly, truly, that is one of the hardest things because like it is genuinely the only time I and like the thing about the Batman Beyond suit is that it literally only works in Batman Beyond. Because even in other comic book art, the reason it only works in Batman Beyond is because Batman Beyond is using super charge cells, like cell shadows because it's a cartoon, right? So you can do the thing where the Beyond suit has that really dramatic shading cut out. Like he's he's almost always kind of got like a um like an edge lighting thing going on where like the outside edges of the suit are more of a light gray or like a dark gray, and then the interior edges of the suit are black, and that's what creates those shapes that makes it so like perfect.

SPEAKER_07 39:29

Right.

SPEAKER_10 39:30

Um so like even when they try to render the suit in other comics and stuff, like another 2D medium, it doesn't work unless you specifically do the thing where the center of the suit is completely blacked out. And I have seen a couple of comic artists who have done that and it works. Like I think I've seen a Dan Mora, speaking of which, the goat, um, drawing of the suit where he does that in his own art style, and it looks really good. Like that is the only way you can do it because any other kind of rendering that gives it like a like a physical 3D kind of element doesn't work, it just looks wrong because you have to have that flat, full black, right?

SPEAKER_04 40:14

I think you can do that in 3D for a movie because here's what here's the thing just doing the harsh black shading, like specific to that model, and then like the rim light thing, such that like the center of the face is always perfectly black itself is not like too complicated. Obviously, the hard part is the face, and I think straight up for a Spider-Verse style movie, what you do is you do not actually model the facial expressions, you draw them frame by frame.

SPEAKER_05 40:42

Absolutely. Ooh, yeah, yeah, that would work.

SPEAKER_07 40:44

Because you could you could just literally paint the white eyes and white mouth over the frame and like have it match the trajectory or I want to show you both uh really quickly uh the the failure of attempting to uh create a 3D version of uh the uh Batman Beyond suit because it's one of the alternate suits in Arkham City.

SPEAKER_10 41:05

Oh no.

SPEAKER_07 41:06

Don't tell me that.

SPEAKER_10 41:08

Oh, it looks so bad.

SPEAKER_07 41:12

It doesn't work.

SPEAKER_02 41:13

It doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

It doesn't work this looks like a guy from Venture Brothers.

SPEAKER_10 41:19

Yeah, it looks so bad. Like it just doesn't work, it has to be so much more like the rendered mouth is what fucks it up. Because like I understand spiritually that yeah, you can see Terry's mouth when he talks in the cartoon as a Red Man. Like I get that, but like that's just there because it's a cartoon. If you're gonna do like a 3D version of the Beyond suit, it has to be like mouthless, right?

SPEAKER_04 41:52

I think if you do like an actual like a photorealistic 3D or like live action version of that, the suit, the head, the hat, the cowl itself has to be just completely solid, and like the the eyes and mouth are like they do the thing where it's LEDs from inside, right? Absolutely. Like that's the only way.

SPEAKER_10 42:10

It's the only way.

SPEAKER_04 42:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 42:11

Because otherwise it just looks wrong. Um yeah, no, impossible to render suit, but I think they could do it. I think if you were doing like a Batman, like a excuse me, a a Spider-Verse style, like art style kind of look where it's very graphic and very like cartoony on top of 3D models, you can pull it off. You just have to kind of keep certain things in mind.

SPEAKER_07 42:36

You'd have to you you'd almost have to render them like they did Hobie.

SPEAKER_10 42:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 42:39

You know, where they like g they give him a bespoke art style to go with the the to make that work. Because yeah, like the mouth and the eyes are an abstraction a lot like when Spider-Man's eyes, like the mask eyes move. Like it's an abstraction because it's a cartoon medium and you need to find some way to create expressions on an expressionless face.

SPEAKER_09 42:57

Right.

SPEAKER_04 42:58

You know, I forgot they did they did actually successfully render this in 3D. Oh, this was really recent.

SPEAKER_10 43:05

What is it?

SPEAKER_04 43:06

They put him in Fortnite.

SPEAKER_10 43:08

Did they?

SPEAKER_04 43:09

Really? Uh-huh. As of like December of last year. Like very recent. I'll send you. Because it's like it's in 3D, and you know what? It looks accurate.

SPEAKER_10 43:18

Yeah, see, this is what you want.

SPEAKER_04 43:20

Oh, yeah, that's really good.

SPEAKER_10 43:22

You that's exactly what you want. You just want it to be very sharp and graphic.

SPEAKER_07 43:26

Yeah, stylized, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 43:27

Yeah. Um really good Joker design, too. Fuck, I gotta read that.

SPEAKER_07 43:33

Yeah, Joker Beyond is really good. The solid, the solid like suit. And the slick back hair. So good.

SPEAKER_02 43:41

I hate that on the back.

SPEAKER_07 43:42

Okay, I want to say wanna say one more one more thing because this picture has it in here, and I really, really like it. I one of the things I've always loved about Batman Beyond is that Terry has two styles of batarangs.

SPEAKER_10 43:51

Yeah, me too. It's really cool.

SPEAKER_07 43:53

He's got the he's got the like the little wrist disc shoot thing here, and then he can like create the cool like axe shape rule.

SPEAKER_10 43:59

The one thing that I do have a problem with is that later stuff in the show and into the movie. Okay, so one of the things I like about early Batman Beyond is that his glide his wings are glider wings. They come out underneath the arm. They're like they're like the they're like the Spider-Man webbing, right? Because again, he's a spider. He's Spider-Man. Um so his his wings are glider wings that are attached from the wrist under the armpit and then they fold up when he's done with them, right?

SPEAKER_08 44:28

Right.

SPEAKER_10 44:29

Um in later things, they become an external, they become an extra part of the suit that pops out of the back and our actual wings. And I don't like it as much. It doesn't look as cool.

SPEAKER_07 44:44

Yeah, it's not as it's not as good.

SPEAKER_10 44:46

It's got too many moving parts. It's not as elegant as just the lighter wings. Uh it's a small thing, but it even shows up in Return of the Joker as like normal ass wings. And I get why. It's because the way the bat suit in Beyond is designed, you can do child-friendly gore because it's got the cool circuitry underneath the like base layer of the suit, right? So when you tear off the top layers of the suit, you get the cool circuitry. So you can have moments where bad guys tear off Batman's wings and that shit looks cool as hell, right? Um it's child-friendly gore, I get it. But it's it's just neater to have it be glider wings, right? Yeah. Um, but that's it. That's like my one little my one little baby beef with fucking Batman Beyond. A show that is otherwise really fucking good.

SPEAKER_00 45:34

Right.

SPEAKER_10 45:34

Uh, at basically every turn. Uh, we didn't even talk about the fact that Terry is a girly. I love Terry McGuinness. He's such a good kid. Um, Bruce Wayne doesn't deserve him as like his protege. Terry is too good for this world. He's too good for Gotham. Nobody deserves him. Um he's such a good kid. It's really funny, just the way things turned out. I don't know. Maybe Bruce Tim is a genius. All of Terry's close friends are girls. Right?

SPEAKER_07 46:04

That's another Spider-Man thing.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

He I guess so, you're right.

SPEAKER_07 46:10

Like, like, I've thought about this. Like, I'm thinking, like, who are who are Peter Parker's like common friends? And it's like Mary Jane, Gwen Stacy, Liz Allen. Yeah. And it's like, who's are his male friends? Harry.

SPEAKER_10 46:24

Harry?

SPEAKER_07 46:25

Sometimes Flash.

SPEAKER_10 46:27

That's it. Yeah, no, like Terry is always hanging out with either his girlfriend or Max or Chelsea. And you're like, oh, so he's like a girly. He just hangs out with girls, and it's fine, and nobody makes a big deal out of it. Um I love that for him. I love that Terry McGuinness just gets to be a girly. Good for him, right?

SPEAKER_04 46:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 46:50

Um he's just a good one.

SPEAKER_04 46:52

He's got that, he's kind of got that 90s alt girl swag, you know, with that haircut and everything.

SPEAKER_07 46:56

Yeah, no, he's and great great great design on Terry also. Like the jacket and the the he looks so good. He looks so cool.

SPEAKER_10 47:04

He's just cool. It's just good. I really fucking fucking bat fucking Batman. Fucking Batman. I have a pushine uh uh stress ball that I've just been like abusing while we've been recording this whole segment. Just like tossing it around my room um because I'm annoyed that I like Batman. Batman.

SPEAKER_04 47:26

Is there is there a Batman pushing? I'm sure there is.

SPEAKER_10 47:29

I just love that. Are you kidding me? I would have to I would need that shit.

SPEAKER_07 47:34

I'm not saying you should you have to watch all of it, but it you should watch some of Brave in the Bold, because it is just a delightful romp.

SPEAKER_10 47:42

I probably will watch some of Brave in the Bold. Um I don't I'm like, you know, I am me, and after a certain point you just embrace it, you're just an edgy girl. Yeah. You know? So I'm like, I would just rather watch other things and read, you know, read the comics, but I will probably watch some of Brave and the Bold for sure.

SPEAKER_04 47:59

Yeah, I mean, not not nothing official, by the way, but uh there is there is this.

SPEAKER_10 48:09

That's correct, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, so I am I am really looking forward to Unlimited.

SPEAKER_07 48:18

Um because like uh Justice League is good, but it's it is Unlimited is where it really kind of I feel like it finds what it wanted to be originally, yeah. Which is just like, hey, we have access to all these characters, let's do stuff with them. And also, also, uh Unlimited is where the question shows up. And the question shows the best character.

SPEAKER_10 48:42

I am really looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_07 48:45

Oh, oh, oh, what's this? You uh you watched a lot of Star Trek. Maybe you might be missing your your good friend Jeffrey Combs.

SPEAKER_04 48:51

Well, here he is. And he's playing a character with a with a name that has Q in it.

SPEAKER_10 48:57

It's so good. Um, yeah. I think that's it. I think that's all I got. Maybe, maybe, who knows? I might talk more about it later.

SPEAKER_07 49:07

Well, I have a feeling we'll be talking a lot about Batman because I'm because I'm also looking at those suggestions people are sending you, and I'm like writing them down like, yes, I should get that. Oh, that's where that issue comes from. Okay.

SPEAKER_08 49:18

I should also read those. Blah blah blah, blah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 49:20

I did uh I peg I was like, you know what? I didn't actually buy the first two volumes of Absolute Batman, I need to get those.

SPEAKER_10 49:26

Yeah, I am gonna probably so I I mentioned in chat the first thing I'm gonna read, because I've literally never read it, is Dark Knight Returns, and everybody who I've asked for for recommendation, everybody is like, everybody I have asked for recommendations been like, yes, I know Frank Miller is insane, but Dark Knight Returns really is him. Right? Like, everybody's just really is that good, yeah. It's just that good. I'm like, alright, fine, so Dark Knight Returns is first.

SPEAKER_04 49:52

I think literally the only Batman I've ever read was the Killing Joke.

SPEAKER_10 49:56

That's a good one. Yeah. Killing Joke is iconic for a reason.

SPEAKER_04 49:59

I didn't even I don't think I even read it because it was Batman. I think I read it because it was Alan Moore.

SPEAKER_10 50:04

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_04 50:05

Yeah. Um was not supposed to be canon.

SPEAKER_10 50:09

Well, you know.

SPEAKER_07 50:10

But you know.

SPEAKER_10 50:11

It it got a little too iconic for its own good. Sorry, Alan Moore.

SPEAKER_04 50:15

And Oracle is cool, so you know, Oracle is cool, so it all worked out, but I'm noticing a trend of Batman of like we we have this character who we brought just around, like this girl who's just like around for this orc. Like, you know, she's not that important, or it's like, okay, but what if what if she's around more? Please.

SPEAKER_10 50:32

Yeah, I uh I don't know. I have I have weird feelings about killing joke becoming and I know that Alan Moore did not intend for killing joke to become canon. I have I have weird feelings about it because of like I mean it's about Barbara Gordon, right? Yeah, um and it's like about you know it's not no, it's a little too heavy to talk about in the fucking gorge, but it's about a lot of you know violence against women, and that's Alan Moore's thing, um, of which I have complicated feelings about. See my feelings about fucking Paul Out New Vegas, another thing I like a lot, but sometimes I'm just like, God, calm down. Um so, you know, and like the fact that he never intended for it to be canon, he just wanted to be kind of a dark Batman story, right? That's fine. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 51:28

Um, I do know that I think despite my love, the fact that I would follow Bruce, I would let Bruce Tim do nearly anything. Um, the one thing I won't let him do is stop canonizing Bruce and Barbara. Have you lost your mind?

SPEAKER_07 51:45

God, it's the one thing that you that keeps him from being like the the like Batman's real dad, you know?

SPEAKER_10 51:53

The thing I don't, you know, there's been a thing of a lot these days about like you know, relationship dynamics and fictional content, right? I don't care about the age gap. One, he's not that much older than her. Like he's like in his like he's like in his 30s and she's like in her 20s, right? Who cares? Uh, you know, I was I'm a girly. I get it. Yeah. Um it's the fact that he's she's fucking his best friend. Well, his two best friends, either daughter or girlfriend, and you're gonna go fuck Barbara Gordon. I guess it's fine. I mean, like, I hate it.

SPEAKER_04 52:32

I I feel like that that that's Bruce Tim channeling his love of like redheads. Well, specifically of like 1980s B-grade exploitation movies that are all about like uh kind of scrungly uh older guys having sex with a with a girl they know who's like 10 years younger than them and also kind of related to one of their best friends or something.

SPEAKER_07 52:54

It's to me the other thing that really that that not only like is it just like Bruce, what the fuck are you doing? Like, I know Bruce is supposed to be kind of a like kind of like not an ideal paragon of of morals, sure, but like that's not how you express that.

SPEAKER_10 53:09

I okay because I do like the fact that DCAU Bruce uh is bad at everything that isn't being Batman, I like don't necessarily hate it, mostly because it just doesn't work out. I think if it had worked out, it would have been one thing, but it doesn't work out, so it's actually kind of interesting. But they don't have any chemistry.

SPEAKER_07 53:32

Yeah, that's the other problem.

SPEAKER_10 53:34

The other problem is it's just kind of unmotivated and comes out of nowhere, and it's mostly because this is this is fucking you know, this is James Roberts writing all of his favorite ships into more than meets the eye, but not nearly as good. Right? Um it just kind of comes out of nowhere, and you're just like, oh, okay. But I don't mind the idea that that DCAU Bruce Wayne is like the most self-sabota sabotaging fuckhead in the world. I like those kind of characters, obviously.

SPEAKER_04 54:07

Um I just I think it's fun to have a character who's an inherited billionaire who's like, well, I can afford lots of fun toys to like do uh cape shit with. And it's like, do you uh are you good at any other part of being like an adult? Oh god, no.

SPEAKER_10 54:24

God, no. He's he's so bad at all of it. And like, I think that is.

SPEAKER_04 54:29

Now you may you may ask yours you may ask yourself, stranger, well, what didn't you have like like role models to model your behavior and relationships off of?

SPEAKER_07 54:38

No, I don't my parents died when I was eight, and I was raised by a 90-year-old butler.

SPEAKER_02 54:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:45

Uh well, was he fucking nasty at least? And it's like, yeah. Batman's like, no, and then he like looks pensive for a second, and he looks over at Alfred, and Alfred just kind of like waves his hands a little bit. Alfred's like slowly nodding.

SPEAKER_07 54:59

You weren't there, Master Bruce.

SPEAKER_10 55:01

You have no idea. The best parts of some of my favorite episodes of uh Batman the Animated Series are the fact that Alfred has a girlfriend. He just has a girlfriend, by the way. There's like three episodes of Batman and the Animated Series that are about the fact that Alfred has like, you know, like a woman his age who's like more spunky and fun, and they get in trouble together, and it's like, oh, your grandpa has a girlfriend. That's fun. Good for him.

SPEAKER_07 55:26

Um the other the other reason I don't like the whole Batman or Bruce and Barbara thing is that it feels like something that a person who doesn't know about superheroes would do. Like people who like it's it's like Superman and Wonder Woman to me.

SPEAKER_09 55:44

Sure.

SPEAKER_07 55:44

Where it's like, oh, you just you just think that because they're both the superheroes that they are together.

SPEAKER_02 55:50

Right.

SPEAKER_07 55:51

Like, it's like, oh, Batman and Batgirl must be a couple, right? That's how that works.

SPEAKER_10 55:57

Bruce, it's it's Bruce Timm's one failing. It's his bad failure. You made the you made the baddest, hottest Selena Kyle of all time, and you mean to tell me Bruce Wayne fumbled her, I'll kill you. Um I can I can believe Bruce Wayne Selena Kyle.

SPEAKER_07 56:16

No, I I always I always like that one that one uh reference uh thing for the comics where it's like when Bruce is fighting anyone else, like his jaw has to be outward and like very stern, but when Selena's around, like he like has to like tuck his chin in and look really be really shy.

SPEAKER_04 56:33

I I do like the idea of having a characterization of Bruce that is like indistinguishable from David Ashur from of the Devil Episode 1. Where literally every episode he is of he is horribly butchering a date with like this or that person who means who he chatted up once like off-screen.

SPEAKER_10 56:54

Yeah, absolutely. Um that's correct characters.

SPEAKER_04 56:57

Master Wayne, it appears you have uh dates with you you have appointments with a Rachel, a Noelle, and a Jessica all at 3 p.m. today. Oh no. Oh jeez.

SPEAKER_10 57:12

Um, yeah. Batman, folks.

SPEAKER_07 57:15

Welcome, welcome to hell, Sarah.

SPEAKER_10 57:17

I really, really fucking hate myself for this one, folks. I've made a lot of poor decisions of things to like a lot in my life, but this one's really high up there. Um well. I'm about to be redacted years old. I guess this is my uh this is my fucking Batman arc. Oh well.

SPEAKER_07 57:37

You're back at Batman Arc Hum.

SPEAKER_10 57:39

Oh, yeah, exactly. They're gonna fucking they're gonna fucking institutionalize me before I'm done.

SPEAKER_04 57:44

I don't think 29's still like start reading Batman.

SPEAKER_10 57:46

Thank you, Saturn. You're so nice. I'm about to transition to referring to myself as 30 to 40 years old instead of 29, so you know.

SPEAKER_04 57:55

God, I what I need to get on that soon.

SPEAKER_10 57:59

I think referring to myself as vaguely 30 to 40 years old works a lot better. So, you know.

SPEAKER_04 58:05

I I have a I have a birthday coming up relatively soon. I should start referring to myself as 30 or 40 years old. Yeah, I've been able to do that for a while now.

SPEAKER_10 58:13

I am 30 to 40 years old and I don't need this, right? Yeah, and that and this is Batman. Batman.

SPEAKER_07 58:20

Well, said uh about 50% of uh Gotham's criminal organization.

SPEAKER_10 58:26

That's correct.

SPEAKER_07 58:29

Like it's it's not even like, oh, I'm obsessed with like two-faced. It's Batman.

SPEAKER_10 58:35

It's the it's literally it's it's not like Nightwing or any of that shit. It's literally It's just the one guy.

SPEAKER_07 58:44

It's just the guy.

SPEAKER_10 58:45

It's literally just fucking Batman. It's just Batman. How embarrassing, how shameful. I should be shot. God almighty.

SPEAKER_07 58:54

Get me out of here.

SPEAKER_10 58:55

Why are we still talking about this?

SPEAKER_07 58:57

I can tell people what I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_02 58:58

What are you doing?

SPEAKER_07 58:59

Uh I've been playing a lot, a lot, a fucking lot of Pocopia.

SPEAKER_10 59:07

How's Pocopia treatment?

SPEAKER_07 59:08

I'm so happy for you.

SPEAKER_10 59:11

So happy for you.

SPEAKER_07 59:13

I think, Sarah, I think Pocopia could break you out of the Batman funk.

SPEAKER_02 59:19

Because I'm like, Okay, Sarah, we're gonna fix you now. We're gonna take you into this video game that lets you build shacks and it's gonna reset your serotonin levels.

SPEAKER_07 59:28

Sarah, what if you what if Fallout 4 Shack Building had terraforming?

SPEAKER_10 59:35

I love that idea. I love that idea. Sounds great.

SPEAKER_07 59:40

You and it's literally, it's literally, it's it's just Fallout with Pokemon. It's just Shack Building with Pokemon in it.

SPEAKER_10 59:48

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_07 59:49

To the point where it's like you have to you have to set up like specific little territories, like little uh habitats to recruit new Pokemon settlers to your to your sh uh uh camp.

SPEAKER_09 1:00:04

Like Okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:06

So it's like it's like you'll find like you'll find like sparkles on the ground, you'll go talk, you'll go uh investigate them, and your Pokedex will be like, hey, you've you found uh got an idea for a potential habitat, and it'll show you like if you if you place four flowers in front of a moss-covered boulder, one of these three Pokemon will show up to that area later on.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:28

Great.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:28

And it's like it's like you kind of get like an idea of like who wants to hang out where, like, if it's a water type, they'll like they'll want to be by the beach. Or they'll like if it's like a rock type, like they'll want to be in a cave next to some moss.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:39

There's one I saw uh I I watched the game very briefly, but there's one I saw that I quite enjoyed, which is uh that someone found out of it's like, oh, you could attract like a Raichu here, right? Or like a Pikachu or Raichu. What do you need to do? It's like, well, I have this idea based on these buildings that are lying around. I think if I got like two or three tables and also a cash register, and then I provided electrical power to the cash register so it was on, it would be something called like a storefront. And I think Raichu would really like that.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:11

Yes, some of them get really, really funny where it's like, how do you recruit like a Hitmonchan to your t to your uh settlement? Like, oh, find a a wooden bench and a uh a punching bag.

SPEAKER_09 1:01:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:29

So that the Hitman Chan has a place to sit down when it's done working out.

unknown 1:01:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:35

And then and then sure enough, you come back an hour later and there's Hitman Chan working the bag.

SPEAKER_09 1:01:40

Great.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:41

Um it's just it's so zen. Because you go to there's there's like four or five major areas in the game. Um just kind of basically it's like a different biome. Like there's you're the standard one is like a plains, there's like a mountain range, there's um uh a city like by the ocean, um, and there's like a uh a like a the peak of a mountain, like a higher up area.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:07

Um and you know, there's obviously different Pokemon that can come to each one based on you know whatever their their region is. Um and it's it's this isn't a spoiler, it's post-apocalyptic.

SPEAKER_09 1:02:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:18

So you're going to a place that's like completely like there's still buildings, but they're all disheveled, all the roads are broken up and everything. So like not only is that an urge of like, oh, I can build whatever I want, it's oh I can fix this.

SPEAKER_10 1:02:30

Yeah, I can make things better by building shacks.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:34

You know how in Fallout 4, like when you first get to a new settlement, you're like, you you do the thing where it's like, I'm gonna scrap all of the garbage. That's literal all the broken shit. I'm just gonna go around and do my chores and clean up. And oh, it feels so good to break down all the broken, busted things, and then like now I have all these resources that I can use to build new things.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:59

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:01

It it is somewhat still funny to me the idea that they did just go, yeah, no, this this Pokemon game takes place after all humans have died. Yeah, they're not dead, but you'll you'll uh oh sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:14

They can't said they're not gonna kill off all the humans in this baby game for babies. Why the fuck not?

SPEAKER_10 1:03:21

I think they should.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:24

Uh it is, it is like it is like a little bit heartbreaking because all the Pokemon are dumb. They're all very stupid creatures, obviously.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:33

For sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:33

But all they do is wander around going, where did all the humans go? I bet if we build like the whole point is, I bet if we rebuild all of these structures, the humans will come back.

SPEAKER_10 1:03:42

I see. Oh damn, that's great!

SPEAKER_07 1:03:45

Yeah. That's so great. Hold on, does Alakazam also think that's how that works? Uh yes, because Alakazam, even though he has 5,000 uh IQ, uh, when you recruit him, he has been meditating so long he forgot everything. Oh, I see. Okay. Okay. Remember why the humans left.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:04

I I that that's perfect, actually. I'm I'm I'm literally glad that that they're like, no, yeah, don't worry, we have intercepted your your your one spot of like literally, no, this Pokemon explicitly has an IQ of 5,000. What do you mean it's stupid and doesn't and thinks that humans are are will come back if you build a if you build a house.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:22

So here's the here's the funniest gag in the entire thing is that you can go around and find old tablets and books and newspapers and stuff to like give you like apocalypse logs like you would in your standard Fallouts or whatever, you know. You get it get an idea of what happened, and you read all these notes. At no point do any of the characters react to finding out this information. And I was playing for a while, and I'm like, you know, it's kind of weird, like there hasn't been any build-up of like finding new information, anything that. And then it hit me, Ditto can't read.

SPEAKER_10 1:04:54

They're just looking at it, and you, the player, are absorbing that information. But like to Ditto, it's just fucking gobbledygoo. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:04

You can you can build like like billboards and like like road signs and stuff, and all the text is just like random shapes because none of the Pokemon can read.

SPEAKER_10 1:05:13

That's incredible. That's so funny. I don't know what's so funny.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:17

Uh oh, Saturn, you mentioned you mentioned cash registers. Um when you I I recruited Hepini recently because she was wandering around a wrecked uh wrecked ship, and she was like, Oh, I I was just messing around with it with this little music making machine because whenever you press all the buttons it makes a little dinging noise, and then you you hook a power to it, and she's just pressing the keys on the cash register to make it chime. And she's like, it makes fun noises, see?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:47

God.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:47

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:48

It's that that uh that that fucking uh Alex's ambit is just reminding me of this great post I saw recently. It's not a recent post, but it's from uh Michael Lutz. Uh it's a dialogue between a skeptic and An acolyte, and the skeptic says, absurd, his name is Stolid Snake? Then pray tell what of Liquid Snake. And the acolytes, why he is the first one's brother and the Miss Fezzer from whom these crimes are the pin, the chronicle of which I was just preparing to speak. And the skeptic unnerved to have his disdain so thoroughly anticipated and routed.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:19

Oh Saturn voice. Oh!

SPEAKER_06 1:06:30

Literally. Hold on, I'll put the post in group chat so you can you can see it. But no, it's it is God so fucking funny.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:43

Uh God, but no, it's it's just so it's just so calming because you can just log in and it's it's just a time sink. Like I'll be like, I'm gonna play for a little bit, I got some work to do, and then it's like you got fucking Tardu Valley, son.

SPEAKER_10 1:06:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:56

Oh, the sunset. And it's and it's what's really annoying is that the game cycles on a normal a normal 24-hour period, so I could watch the sunset in the game and still be like, oh shit. It's later than I thought.

SPEAKER_10 1:07:14

Like, oh, it got really funny to me.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:17

Got really dark in here. Oh, right.

SPEAKER_10 1:07:20

Uh true Stardew Valley right there, dude. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:25

It's just like it's just so fucking it's it just scratches every single itch that Fallout scratches in just the most perfect way.

SPEAKER_10 1:07:37

I am going to play it sooner than later. Um, but there's like I'm just put I'm mostly putting it off because I I know it's gonna get it's gonna get me. Right? Like it's going, I'm gonna get caught by it. And um, so I'm trying to put it off so I can actually play this fucking Arkham game. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:57

Must be nice having having switch to's. Is it Satter?

SPEAKER_10 1:08:01

Sorry.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:02

The other is really nice to have a switch to the other really shitty thing, by the way, Sarah, is that you can go to each other's villages.

SPEAKER_09 1:08:10

Shit, shut up!

SPEAKER_07 1:08:12

Fuck me. Why'd you say that? We can go, I can go to your I can go to your island and I can help you build things and then you know you can come to mine and you can help me build things, and we can I can't stand you people. Saturn, you gotta get a switch too so we can have yet another dicking around here.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:29

I don't want to buy a switch too until they get the LED model out.

SPEAKER_10 1:08:33

That's never gonna come out.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:34

It's gonna come out. They did one for the first one like seven years later.

SPEAKER_10 1:08:39

Look at how the fucking wasteland of console games are right now. They're they're raising the price on that Switch.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:46

I'm just saying, like, literally, when they release that stupid ass pay us$10 for us to tell you about the console, they literally have dialogue in that game. It's like, yeah, we know the screen doesn't look as good as the O1 Switch one. Uh whatever. But it's fine though. It's like, but it's like if I'm gonna get a Switch, I'm gonna do it for portable, and I don't want like I because I don't plug it into a TV, I would just be playing it portable, and I don't want to fucking play with a shit ass regular LED screen on a$500 fucking dollar console.

SPEAKER_10 1:09:18

I understand.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:19

I know. Like, I would sooner, like the problem is like for for that, for the money that a Switch 2 costs, I could get an Ain Odin, which has a fucking like 1440p OLED screen. Yeah. And like, I know don't play Switch 2 games, but it's also like, fuck, like, I kind of just want to wait for an OLED Switch 2 because I don't want to stand. I don't want to play bad Switch 2. I wanna play good Switch 2.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:47

I wanna play the good Switch 2.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:49

Well, either that or I have to see if anyone has done like an the insane prospect of, hey, so if you send me your Switch 2 and pay me like$200, I will take the casing off and put an appropriately sized OLED screen in it and then refit it together and send it back to you. Because I would go for that. Hold on, I have to look that up.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:11

Yeah, look that up real quick, see if that's actually a thing.

SPEAKER_10 1:10:13

See if that's actually a thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:15

Listen, yeah, you have to decide how much you want to play toys with us if you want to come over and play Pokemon at my house.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:22

Well, that's not fair, Ben, because I if I if you're like, hey, play toys with me, I'm like, great, let me lay out like six hundred dollars that I don't have.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:30

I know, I don't want you to pay six hundred dollars to play toys.

SPEAKER_10 1:10:34

I think it's horseshit that anybody has to pay six hundred dollars to play toys.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:38

I mean, I do want you to do that, but I don't think you should have to.

SPEAKER_10 1:10:41

No, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:42

But like, I I I know, but I mean, like, I I can't afford to do that. I don't have that kind of money.

SPEAKER_10 1:10:49

It's fucked up.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:50

It's fucked up. Like, I'd have to I'd have to put on my Best Buy credit card. I'm trying to minimize my my fucking uh revolving credit utilization for a moment. I have a good credit score right now. Yeah, you want to press it. I'm at 780. I don't want to ruin that for a Switch 2. That is that to be me. Every time I'm like, oh hey, my credit score going up and my mom asks what it is, I tell her she gets pissed off because she literally doesn't know a single person who has a credit score of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:22

Uh, maybe someday.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:24

Um anyways. But no, it's uh the other one of the other funny things is uh so you're you're like the like your uh Preston Garvey of the game is Professor Tangroth. Who is just this this old Tangroth who thinks he knows a lot of things about about humans and what the world used to be like. And uh every time you dig up like an old like artifact that you can have him like appraise, kind of like Blathers in Animal Crossing, how he appraises fossils. You can have uh Professor Tangrowth like appraise like random junk you dig up. And every time he has the same dialogue where it's like, oh, this appears to be uh radio. I'm not sure what humans used to do with it, but you can put it in your house and it would be a fun decoration. Or like, or you can hang this on your wall and it would look really good. Yeah. I guess.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:19

I I I I will say, uh uh briefly circling back to the thing we talked about earlier, uh, Sarah having seen these uh photos that may have just been posted on Blue Sky about like a minute ago. I do think you'd like the Ben Star character in Warframe because he kind of looks like that and is also, aside from being voiced by Ben Star, is textually a bad boyfriend.

unknown 1:12:42

No.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:42

Man, Ben Star would make a good Batman.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:45

You can't do this to me. I can't get Ben Star Batman. You can't fucking do this to me.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:52

Play Warframe with me!

SPEAKER_02 1:12:53

That's what I'm saying! I can't do both. I can't.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:57

Fuck Pagopia. Pagopia cost me$600, but Warframe's free.

SPEAKER_10 1:13:03

I'm just gonna be in my worst possible version of myself arc where I'm playing, I'm reading my fucking Batman's slough, and I'm playing my fucking Warframe, and I'm wishing I was dead.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:15

We can all we can all just stop playing Fallout 76 forever and instead switch entirely to Warframe.

SPEAKER_10 1:13:24

Ah, it's fine. I hate it here. You know you want to. You want to so bad. I think I might have to. Fuck me.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:32

Join us here.

SPEAKER_10 1:13:35

I hate it here so much. Uh okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:39

Uh Voyager book report.

SPEAKER_10 1:13:42

Yes! Voyager book report.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:45

Um, so I made it to season seven. I'm so sad you're almost done. All of season six. Um, where did I leave off? Uh oh, I know I I know around where I left off. Uh Barclay showed up.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:03

Yes!

SPEAKER_07 1:14:04

I got to watch the episode, a couple episodes where Barclay was in them. Uh, my boy Barclay, and uh it's I like that it's just him and Deanna hanging out. Like Deanna keeps popping up into Barclay's storyline.

SPEAKER_10 1:14:19

I feel like Deanna is babysitting Barclay because she knows if she doesn't, like he's gonna be the first mass shooter in like 200 years. Yeah, right. Like, you gotta keep an eye on Barclay.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:33

Like, she she has never closed his case, like his file as a counselor. Like, she just like leaves that perpetually open.

SPEAKER_10 1:14:42

She's like, Reg, if I don't keep an eye on you, you're you're gonna do something bad. Um But no, it's funny. One of my favorite things about late season Voyager is the fact that like it's also kind of a I don't want to say like a Barclay redemption arc, but kind of, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:00

Yeah, like he is the reason.

SPEAKER_10 1:15:02

He gets to actually be useful and helpful and like find a purpose for himself and become a more interesting character than just like the neurotic mess he was in the next generation. Like Reg gets to actually be a person.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:18

It's very funny because like I have seen LeVar Burton's name in the director credits for a lot of these later season episodes.

SPEAKER_10 1:15:26

He's really good at it.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:27

And it's funny that like they're like, no, Barclay will save the day.

SPEAKER_10 1:15:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:33

Not Jordy, you know?

SPEAKER_10 1:15:35

Yeah, for well, because one, he is too busy directing the episode.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:38

Right.

SPEAKER_10 1:15:39

Um, and the fact that like I think Barclay's neuroses play better with kind of obsessing over like a project. Over a project like Voyager, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:15:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:15:50

Um honestly, one of the things about about Star Trek is that after a while, you just start getting really excited to see LeVar Burton's name in the director's.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:00

He's a great director.

SPEAKER_10 1:16:01

He's genuinely some like a lot of my favorite episodes of any given Star Trek series are LeVar Burton episodes. He's really good.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:10

Um it is funny because I I've learned I what I think is really interesting. Like I knew like he was like still attached to it, but uh I didn't know that Jonathan Frakes was like so directly involved with Star Trek still.

SPEAKER_10 1:16:26

Yeah. I mean, it makes sense because like that's kind of like Frakes' only big role. He never really did anything else with his career afterwards, and the way that like LeVar Burton got to do like reading Rainbow and become, you know, and like Patrick Stewart is Patrick Stewart, you know what I mean? He gets to be all he gets to be fucking Professor X.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:45

They're gonna like put Patrick Stewart on money when he's gone. Yeah, right. Yeah. Not even the UK either. Like you're gonna put him on American money. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:54

Oh, I would yeah, for sure. Um we have uh they're replacing George Washington with me. With me, Patrick Stewart. Um Barclay. I'm kind of hoping that I'd replace Benjamin Franklin, that I think I am I am worth more than a single dog.

SPEAKER_09 1:17:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:08

Um but no, the Barclay episode. It was very funny watching the Barclay episode, the first one where like he uh manages to make contact with Voyager uh by breaking into uh the facility and running a program and they're like, We're we're okay, you you're going to jail forever. And then Voyager's like, hey, can you hear us?

SPEAKER_10 1:17:28

That's really good.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:29

Yeah. I didn't know that fucking I knew that um because I was just looking up uh Jonathan Frakes on account of our discussion about his career. Uh I knew that uh oh my god, what's his name? Uh John Delancey was an ex-Com to War of the Chosen. I didn't realize Jonathan Frakes all- Oh my god! So is Jonathan Frakes and Michael Dorn and Marina Certis. They're so funny. So it's just a reunion, I see.

unknown 1:17:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:57

Yeah, it's not like literally everyone, but like it is uh it is a lot of them, and they're voicing like most, like all like there's not XCOM is not a game that has a lot of character-ass characters in it. They're voicing all of the character-ass characters. Yeah, that's yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:15

That's enough that it's intentional.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:17

Yeah. That's so funny. The only other the only other studio I've seen do that is Bungie with uh fucking like uh ODST or whatever, where it's like, we're gonna get as many Firefly actors as we can.

SPEAKER_10 1:18:30

Uh I mean it's kind of a holdover from Gargoyles because Gargoyles is also kind of famously like a TNG reunion. Um, so I can see why they got pulled in for voice acting and XCOM stuff as well, right? So funny. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:44

Because I've only ever seen that before when it's like, oh, it's cartoon dubbing, and it's like, oh, why are all these Ed Netty characters, uh, like actors voicing in like this all voicing in the specific Gundam series, and it's not a reunion, it's literally just like, no, that's just the agency they use for the dub. Like, that's just what they got. Yeah, those people were around.

SPEAKER_10 1:19:03

And though, like, very famously, apparently, especially with with Gargoyles, it was that so like Jonathan Frakes plays Xanatos and Marina Surtis plays Jamona, right? Like two of the major antagonists of the show. And what happened is that Gargoyles is kind of happening at the same time as the tail end of the 90s Star Trek, right? So, what's happening is that Frakes and Curtis are in Gargoyles and they're having a great time, right? So they're telling their friends in Star Trek, like, hey, you should go out for Gargoyles and see if you can get in. And I'll put in a good word for you because, like, this is a lot of fun. This is a cool little show, and I think you should try to go for it. Um, and so that's how you get just tons and tons of like not just TNG actors, but I think there are a couple of Voyager and DS9 characters in Gargoyles.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:02

There's Enterprise actors in Gargoyles. Like, there's a-to me. There's a whole 14-minute video showcasing all of the Star Trek actors that appeared in in uh Gargoyles.

SPEAKER_10 1:20:14

And it's literally because Jonathan Frakes and Marina Surgis were like, we are having a great time making this cartoon. You should come and do it with us. And it just snowballed from there and it became the fucking 90s Trek reunion show as a result. And that's why that show has such a bangin' voice cast. Yeah. Um, so it'll probably be the next thing I watch after I'm finally free of DCAU. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:36

Um But no, I I find it funny that after the Barclay episode, where Barclay is very famously hollow, you know, has this uh Holodeck addiction and whatnot, the next episode is uh Janeway falls in love with a holodeck character.

SPEAKER_10 1:20:49

Yeah, baby!

SPEAKER_07 1:20:51

Delete the wife.

SPEAKER_10 1:20:52

Delete the wife, she's just like me for real.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:55

Kate Mulder is like, well, it's woke if I do it. I so so I've seen that delete the wife line before. Like, you know, that screen cap out of context. And I'm like, I was convinced the episode was a character develops a holodeck thing and gets obsessed with their own family, and this is Janeway telling them to delete this family.

SPEAKER_09 1:21:16

Right?

SPEAKER_07 1:21:16

Like, no, Janeway being the voice of reason, the authority figure, is like, no, you have to break away from this foolishness. You need to delete your fake AI wife.

SPEAKER_10 1:21:25

No.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:26

No, no, for real. It's her being like, eliminate the competition.

SPEAKER_10 1:21:30

She is so. I love her. What a great character.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:34

The thing is, I love the distinction that Janeway is not a home wrecker. No, but given the choice, she will make it so the home never existed to be wrecked.

SPEAKER_10 1:21:45

That's right, baby.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:46

Um, I wish there were more Fairhaven episodes because it was a lot of fun and it sucks there's only two.

SPEAKER_10 1:21:53

Yeah. I'm actually kind of surprised there's only two Fairhaven episodes because both Fairhaven episodes are bangers. Like they're both really fun, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:22:01

It's kind of the same with Captain Proton, where it's like there's only really two major Captain Proton episodes, and it's like, this could have been your thing.

SPEAKER_10 1:22:10

It could have been your running gag, absolutely. The fucking the uh um the the fucking Bride of Arachne or whatever it is episode of Voyager is probably my second favorite holodeck episode of Star Trek, which is crazy, because the three good uh holodeck episodes of Star Trek are Armand Bashir, um the Arachnea Voyager episode, and a fistful of data. Yeah, right. And I think Armand Bashir is my favorite just because homosexuality is beautiful. Um but then I think I actually like the Arachnea episode more than a fistful of data. Because I think it's funny to make Janeway have to do that.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:57

I yeah, I think I think what what really makes uh Bride of Chaotica it's it's chaotica. Yeah, chaotica. Arachnea is who Janeway plays.

SPEAKER_09 1:23:06

That's right. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:08

What makes what makes that one more fun than I think Fistful of Data or uh Um Armand Bashir is that they're doing a parody of the thing that Star Trek is.

SPEAKER_09 1:23:22

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:23

And they have to they have to really tow the line of making the Captain Proton Techno Babble sound dumb while their own technobabble doesn't sound dumb.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:36

Yeah, they have to somehow thread that needle, absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:39

It's it's like it would be like if James Bond met Austin Powers. Yeah, 100%. You have to you have to like you have to like get that perfectly.

SPEAKER_10 1:23:51

You have to extremely work to make sure, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:23:55

Yeah, like the thing you're parodying doesn't sound too much like your real thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:03

Uh see the thing is I do want that because I do just who's uh who's the most recent bond? Daniel Craig. Daniel Craig, that's right. I was gonna say someone else's name. I'm like, that's not the right person. I do kind of want to have that moment at the end where their their the portal opens up and then Austin Powers gets to go back to his own universe or whatever, and like James Vaughn is having a serious moment. He's just sitting at the counter and he takes a tip of his martini and he just like mumbles to himself like Shagadelic.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:33

Um actually that's actually now that I mention it, uh very famously um the studio behind Bond is very mad at Austin Powers because that meant they had to do serious movies from then on.

SPEAKER_10 1:24:45

Yeah, you can't make funny movies after Austin Powers.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:24:49

Shame.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:50

But no, uh, Fairhaven was a really fun concept, and I think I think it's just a Star Trek thing where like they like doing holodeck episodes because they get to go outside.

SPEAKER_10 1:24:59

One, they get to go outside, and two, you get to reuse whatever set is hanging out on the uh the CVS back lot at the time, right? Like that was the whole thing was that like all of these these uh holodeck episodes are just we've got this set laying around, um, we're gonna use it. Yeah, we gotta get economical as fuck with our with our TV making back in the day, back when you could just have sets hanging out waiting to be used by someone, right? Back when we were a real country and TV was a real form of entertainment.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:36

Yeah. I I think the world is ready for a funny James Bond again. I think it's been enough long enough, yeah. Because I'm uh people liked that Liam Neeson naked gun movie.

SPEAKER_10 1:25:49

Oh, it was a great movie, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:51

So I I feel like I feel like the waters are ready.

SPEAKER_10 1:25:55

I think it's been long enough as after Spectre was just kind of like a nothing movie, like you squandered um oh my god. Who's that? Uh Christoph Waltz. You kind of wasted Christoph Waltz in a kind of just fine Bond movie, which should have it should have been good because it's a fucking it's Spectre. My secret, I don't know if I've ever told anyone. My secret is that I've seen every James Bond movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:22

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_10 1:26:23

Yeah, I've seen every James Bond movie. I love James Bond. Um it's like a th because it's not like an important thing. It's not like a thing I talk about. I just really got into James Bond into high school and then watched every James Bond movie, and then just kind of put that knowledge about myself to the side because it's not like a thing. Like it's not a fandom, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:26:46

Right, no, it's not.

SPEAKER_10 1:26:48

Like there are people who are like James Bond fans. I am not one of them.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:54

You're not seeing gift sets on Tumblr about James Bond.

SPEAKER_10 1:26:57

No, well, I did about Skyfall, but that's because Skyfall is fucking immaculate. It's like the best one. Um even with all of its problems. Skyfall is fucking incredible. Um but yeah, no, you had like Spectre as like a whole thing, right? And you had Christoph Waltz, and you're like, oh shit, and it was just kind of nothing. It was just kind of nothing. And and I mean the thing is Daniel Craig does not like being James Bond. Very famously, he kind of hates being James Bond.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:27

So recast him, recast him as Liam Neeson and do a naked gun with James Bond.

SPEAKER_10 1:27:31

I would like that. I would like, I would, I would like that a lot. I think now is right for a slightly funnier James Bond.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:40

I I think you have to get a younger guy than Liam Neeson.

SPEAKER_10 1:27:43

It can't be a full on comedy. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:46

No, that's the thing is you have to have a character who could convincingly be a dead series action hero and then just do like a deadpan moment where he does something funny and it's not like a goofball about it. It's just he does a funny thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:27:59

Cause like I think the world is not like I don't because James Bond movies have never been comedies. It's really important. James Bond movies have never been comedies, but they've been witty. They've they have been a little campy and they've been a lot of fun, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:28:14

You gotta have like a dude with a big, like, golden metal prospect.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:17

Yeah, that's the thing, is a lot of the all the Daniel Craig movies have a villain with like a thing, but it's like, oh, his eye has like a scar over it, or like he has a tattoo on his hand.

SPEAKER_10 1:28:27

It's because they're aping specific, extremely, extremely specifically. Starting with Casino Royale, it's aping the Born movies. Right. Right? Because at that yeah, at that point, the Born Identity had when with Casino Royale, the Born Identity had just come out and was a huge hit. And Casino Royale is aping the born identity, and it kind of kept doing that because again, 9-11 ruined everything. We all have to have these more serious down-to-earth kind of uh you know movies going on after 9-11. But I think now with like the the onset of like your fucking your your comic book movies and stuff being so ubiquitous, I think you can actually do a slightly goof, I wouldn't say goofy, maybe lighter blonde movie, maybe more outlandish is the right term. Yeah, we have to go back to the Pierce Brosnan era, but good instead of bad. Right?

SPEAKER_07 1:29:25

It's that clip from one, I can't remember which one it is, but like it's it's where Q is giving him his equipment for the thing. It's like it's like a gun and like a wristwatch.

SPEAKER_08 1:29:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:33

And he's like, oh, that's it. And he's like, what did you expect? Like an exploding pen? And I'm like, yeah, kinda.

SPEAKER_10 1:29:39

Okay, but that sequence is from fucking uh is that from Skyfall or is that from Castino Royale? Anyways, those movies are good, so it's fine.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:48

Yeah, that's it's Skyfall was a Casino Royale and Skyfall were good, but I'm still just like, yeah, I I like it when he has like a grappling watch.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:56

I do I do think that they need to have like and I know there's certain things that you're just not going to do because it's like, oh, it's that's it's a little too cartoonish to do in like a like a act, like a movie that you can see in like 8k HD or whatever. Right. Just like, oh god, like we're we're not doing the grappling watch effect, it's just not happening or whatever. But also, I do think the more James Bond has like one-off gizmos that are reminiscent of the things that CI that the CIA tried to use to kill Fidel Castro, the better.

SPEAKER_10 1:30:26

Yes, absolutely. Um, I think actually it would be really fun to do a modern to do a new James Bond movie that is a period piece. That is actually my like.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:34

Ooh, like in the 70s.

SPEAKER_10 1:30:36

Yeah, set it in the 60s and 70s. I think that would be the way to do it. To like let you kind of have your cake and eat it too, is to keep okay, here's my pitch. I think about this way more than I would than I would like to admit. My pitch for a new James Bond movie is you set it in the 60s or 70s and you write it like a modern James Bond movie, but with the visual, like with like the setting and all of the visuals of a 60s and 70s James Bond movie, right? So you have your more grounded writing, because again, we live in a post-9-11 media escape, um, but you still get kind of this like more colorful and outlandish kind of presentation that I think would actually jive really well with a more kind of um down-to-earth spy story, right? And that is your the way you can have your cake and eat it too when it comes to a James Bond movie. Um uh who owns? I think MGM owns no fucking uh Amazon owns James. Jeff Bezos, call me. I will I will write that James Bond fucking movie you've been struggling to write for the last 10 moves like 10 years. I can do it. Um it's my secret superpower, is that I like James Bond more than people know. So yeah, man, I can do it. I'll cast the perfect James Bond. He'll be extremely handsome. I don't know anything about modern actors, so I can't name one off the top of my head. I'm not gonna say fucking Timothy Chalome. Um, but I I will find you your new James Bond. And he will probably like his job more than Daniel Craig ever did. So there. Um Daniel Craig's too happy being a gay guy solving mysteries for Ryan Johnson. He's the James Bond. He's living his best life.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:30

Now I don't think I don't think he would be an appropriate Bond, but I do think that if we get if we can like nominate people who should be in the next Bond movie, I need the uh dubiously homophobic antagonist to be played by Neil Newbon.

SPEAKER_10 1:32:44

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:45

Because he's got a he's he's he's hammy as hell, and he's got like he's he's like a he's a he's a fairly attractive guy, but he's got like great vocal range and stuff. I feel like he could play a villain pretty well, and he's 6'1, so that's appropriate.

SPEAKER_10 1:32:56

My joke, because everybody for years and years, now he's too old to do it, of course. Um, my joke is that I think Idris Alba should be in it, but he's not Bond. He should be the CIA rap. And the joke is that it's a British guy playing an American guy pretending to be a British guy.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:16

Oh, that would be.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:17

I like that. So I think you know who I think could probably could probably pull off Bond and but like uh isn't doing anything super important right now? I think they should get John Boylega.

SPEAKER_10 1:33:30

I think John Boylega could be a very could be a very handsome James Bond.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:34

Because he's like in his mid-30s and he's got like he's got like acting range, and he's capable of doing that like being serious and action-y, but also like he could definitely pull off like a completely uh stone-faced comedy beat, too. Like I think he's I think he's got that in him. Totally.

SPEAKER_10 1:33:49

I would love that. There's so many, there's so many options. Um, Amazon call me.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:55

I've got to talk about Star Trek.

SPEAKER_10 1:33:57

Oh, right. Sorry. We've we've it's been an hour and 30 minutes, and the D the DCAU and Star Trek Power Hour have just been chugging along. Yeah. Uh dude.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:07

Uh uh Tsimkate, uh Seven got bodied by the rock. Very funny. Very funny.

SPEAKER_10 1:34:16

Very, very funny to have an episode with Dwayne the Rock Johnson, and even as far back as like when that episode came back, his clause of never losing is still in effect.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:27

Yeah, I was gonna say, like, no, I he's like, no, I know that I know that she's like a cool robot woman, but like I'm not losing to someone on the camera. Are you fucking kidding me?

SPEAKER_07 1:34:33

This one I can give a pass to, because this is back when he's just still a wrestler. And this was, hey, we got a re the wrestler, the rock, to be in our Star Trek show. This is back like before he was like an actor.

SPEAKER_10 1:34:46

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:47

Yeah, but even then, like, I think if you're like here's the thing though, part of the job of being a wrestler is knowing how to lose entertainingly.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:54

Yeah, but the plot the plot would the plot wouldn't have worked if Seven won. Like, the whole point is that she's like overwhelmed by this fight and like the the whole like being trapped in a thing.

SPEAKER_10 1:35:03

I know, but I still think Seven should have beaten The Rock and then gotten beaten by somebody else because that would have been funny, right? Um I I just don't like I don't like The Rock is my secret.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:16

Uh Seven becomes uh a big sister to like four Borg children. That's right, really was a really fun, fun little uh side plot happening across a couple episodes. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:28

I do think it is actually a little known fact about that episode is that Seven could have won because after that episode when Rock was feel when when The Rock was feeling too big in his britches, uh Jerry Rains held him down and shaved his head bald and none of his hair ever grew red.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:43

She deserves that.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:46

Uh the episode uh where Janeway does her own lower decks and tries to shape up a bunch of like lower performing members of the crew.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:55

Yeah, it's really fun.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:57

Do you know, do you know what's fun, children? Is doing your best at work.

SPEAKER_10 1:36:05

I love her. I love her.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:06

Like like literally, like she's like trying to motivate one guy, and the guy he's like, I took the job in Voyager to work my required year in Starfleet so that I could transfer immediately to a lab on a planet and never leave never leave the surface again. But now I'm here.

SPEAKER_10 1:36:25

Now I'm here in the Delta Quadrant. Oops.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:30

So no, Captain, I am not happy.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:34

I'm not happy to be here, thank you for asking.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:37

Um, and then an episode with one of my absolute favorite plot gag concepts ever in anything, which is the heroes run into a bunch of con artists posing as them. Yes!

SPEAKER_04 1:36:56

Um It's my favorite random encounter in 76 where you run into the fake brotherhood.

SPEAKER_09 1:37:01

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:01

Uh or the uh the fake Preston in Fallout 4. Oh yeah!

SPEAKER_10 1:37:06

Rarest. I have played 20 like 2,000 hours of Fallout 4, and I've never gotten that random encounter even once.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:13

I got it in one playthrough never again. I did get it once. It's so fucking funny.

SPEAKER_10 1:37:20

I'm so jealous.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:21

But just like the immediate shot of fake Janeway and fake Tuvac with their giant combatches.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:28

Yeah, everyone.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:30

Uh it's just, oh, it's I love that plot line. I love it so much. I love just just bad wigs and ugly costumes, and it's just like, yes, yes, yes, you will join the Federation. Uh, and we will give you uh all the support if you just give us a lot of money first.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:49

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:50

And they're like, they're like touring their version of the Delta Flyer, and it's just some fucking busted up piece of junk. God, it's so good. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:00

It's so good.

SPEAKER_07 1:38:01

I I wish it was not just fake Janeway 2 by Kinshikote. I wish it was like I wish they had a fake seven.

SPEAKER_10 1:38:10

I wish there was a fake seven and a fake Paris Harry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:38:13

Oh, I want I wanna I wanted to see like a fake seven who is just like some woman like covered in obvious tinfoil.

SPEAKER_10 1:38:20

Yeah, and in like the bodysuit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:38:25

Oh, that one was really good. Uh Cass is back.

SPEAKER_10 1:38:30

I'm really sad Oates isn't here to talk about um this, but and I don't, and obviously for spoiler reasons, we have people in the Discord who are currently going through Voyager, so we don't want to talk about it too much, but boy, they do test. They do Cass really bad.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:45

Not content with how dirty they did her originally. They're like, let's let's let's dig up that grave and do her dirty one last time in front of God and everybody.

SPEAKER_10 1:38:54

This is so bad. Um, I still now Oates will contest this, and that's fair. I still think this is not as dirty as they do um end of season six, Deep Space Nine, is all I'll say.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:10

I would agree to that. Okay. I would agree to that. It's still bad. It's still bad.

SPEAKER_10 1:39:15

I think it's second worst, because like third worst is Tashi Yar, right? Because they do Tashi Yar really fucking dirty in TNG.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:25

They give her they do her dirty, they give her a better send-off, and then they ruin that send-off.

SPEAKER_10 1:39:30

Yes, that's the thing that really fucks up the Tashi Yar thing is they do her dirty, and then she gets a really good send-off, and then they're like, actually no, she became uh a Romulan's fucking uh slave wife, and you're like, oh come on.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:47

My name is Rick Berman. Fuck you, Rick Berman, you ruined this too.

SPEAKER_10 1:39:52

I'm gonna send fucking I'm gonna wait a minute, that's not really I'm gonna cry I'm gonna crack a pool cue over my knee and lock fucking Bruce Tim and Rick Berman in a room together, and I think Bruce Tim's gonna come out on top.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:05

Oh the pro like Rick Berman to me is like I I would have made the flirting v harassment be like Bruce Tim versus uh like Yoshioki Tomino. Right? Yeah, but then but then Rick Berman is somehow more misogynist than Tomino.

SPEAKER_10 1:40:26

Which is crazy, because that's Tomino's whole thing. Yeah. It's just being like the like the err woman hater of anime, but you know, well, I guess Kishimoto is right there.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:37

So Yeah, I the thing. Kishimoto, the the difference is that Kishimoto explicitly hates women. Tomino's one of those, one of those older Japanese guys, like the guy who makes Baki, who is like I mean, and to be clear, this is still misogyny, but it's someone who has just for some reason psychically developed in such a way that they do think of women as though they are a completely separate species of animal.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:02

Hundred percent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:04

And Tomino doesn't realize that the way that he thinks about women and talks about women is like psychopathic.

SPEAKER_10 1:41:10

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:12

Kishimoto just hates women. Yeah. Kishimoto, much like Agrivain from final from Fate Grand Order, uh, his only real notable character trait is that he hates women. So if you see someone standing Kishimoto, much as like, you know, if you see someone with an Agravain PFP on Twitter or something, that is like poison coloration on a frog, you know? Yeah. There's no no honorable deeds are committed here are renowned here.

SPEAKER_07 1:41:40

Um, and then what else is really good? Uh we got the other uh Barclay episode where the doctor goes back to the Alpha Quadrant and they do they do the best split screen uh I think Star Trek has had.

SPEAKER_10 1:41:54

It's very clean, yes.

SPEAKER_07 1:41:55

It's really good this time, because usually when this happens, like you can you can tell.

SPEAKER_10 1:42:00

You can see the green screening, like fucking uh Kira and Mirakira. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:42:05

But but like Doc the Doctor and Zimmerman have a lot of back and forth.

SPEAKER_10 1:42:12

Is it's very natural.

SPEAKER_07 1:42:14

They're very agitated, and they do a really good job considering it would have to be uh Robert Picardo filming one version of this and then timing it with the other side of that conversation.

SPEAKER_10 1:42:28

It's just that Robert Picardo is a really good actor.

SPEAKER_07 1:42:30

Yeah, like he's really good at that. Yeah, it turns out. Um that was really good. I I I I do I do feel bad for Zimmerman where he's like, yeah, I designed this thing after myself, um, and it sucked so badly that they resort they use him as like waste management labor now, and it's just my face all over it.

SPEAKER_09 1:42:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:42:52

Um and uh then we moved into season seven. I finished the two-parter for that one. Uh Unimatrix Hero is really, really good.

SPEAKER_10 1:43:01

Oh, I love that. Yes, the two-parter is so good. Yeah, that's like um the insane, like fucked up Yuri uh uh love triangle going on between Janeway 7 and the board queen is unreal. Like they were really cracking in the writer's room with everyone. It's it's it's so good. Um the the amount of no-holoing they will do to Janeway and Seven later in season seven is brutal. Um, but I've made peace with it, it's fine. But like whatever the fuck is going on with Janeway, the board queen in seven, is like you should watch yellow jackets on Paramount Plus, is all I'll say. Because that's the only other time I get that degree of like insane woman Yuri. Um, but in Yellow Jackets it's text instead of subtext. Like, I can't even talk about that. Um I finished, I I got caught up on yellow jackets. Can we make a small detour on that real fast?

SPEAKER_06 1:44:16

Okay, go ahead.

SPEAKER_10 1:44:17

I got caught up on all of Yellow Jackets, and I think Yellow Jackets, its first season is the best one. It's one of those shows where it kind of loses the it kind of loses the plot a little in seasons two and three, um as it kind of has to become more than this very contained story about high school girls trapped in the Canadian wilderness, right? Right, um slowly going insane. But that being said, Yellow Jackets is a show, there is no other show on TV that is writing, I mean, maybe there is. I don't watch a lot of TV, I guess I should say, but I have watched a lot of TV in my life, and there is no show that is doing what Yellow Jackets is doing, which is writing female characters like male characters affectionately, where like every like the show is predominantly about women who are insane. Every single one of them um have the kind of disorders that would drive uh if they were male, would drive everybody involved fucking pug foot nuts, right? Um, but because it's a bunch of women, this the fandom is smaller. But I will say one of the rare instances where the AO3 is exclusively about uh Yuri, which is great. Yeah, go for them. That is it is a God, I should hope so. Yeah, it is a show that is um entirely about Saturn. I'll just tell you, uh, cannibalism is an expression of love.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:47

That's right.

SPEAKER_10 1:45:48

That's right, baby. Um it is so good. Even when it's not, even when like seasons two and three are kind of getting too in the weeds about certain things, and you feel like you've kind of lost the plot with like the tone and the structure of the first season, and it all feels kind of like, damn, what are we doing here? You still watch all of Yellow Jackets as a thing, and you're like, all of TV could be this way, all of TV could be about like these extremely layered characters who have so many, like like all of these layered women specifically who have like neuroses and and mental problems, and they're all trying to make it work and and deal with themselves and each other, and it's so good and different and unique, and like I real I really like yellow jackets, even with all of its problems, and trust me, it has a lot of problems. Um I think as a whole, Yellow Jackets is really fun, and I'm looking forward to the final season, which is supposed to come out this year, so yay! Yay! Four seasons! Um, yeah, please watch Yellow Jackets. That's all I got. Okay, sorry, Ben.

SPEAKER_07 1:47:04

Uh no, that's about it because I I only just started season seven. I just got to the episode where um seven started malfunctioning and uh her her little brother had to save her.

SPEAKER_10 1:47:13

Uh Eceb's a good kid, too. I like the whole the whole uh story going on between her and Echeb. It's really cool.

unknown 1:47:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:47:20

Um that's it!

SPEAKER_04 1:47:21

Saturn, have you done anything? Uh I've done so much.

SPEAKER_10 1:47:25

Uh I You rode horses and rode horses and wrote more horses?

SPEAKER_04 1:47:30

I I I well I I've done some of that. Admittedly not as much as I'd like, um, but I I've I've gotten, you know, it's fine. Uh I I played Warframe.

SPEAKER_09 1:47:40

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:42

Um Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_09 1:47:44

Cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:44

Okay, cool. Uh I made I made a I made Pippa in Warframe uh earlier today as I was playing around with uh some built stuff and I figured out something for that. So here's a here's a little Pippa for you. Yay, Pippa!

SPEAKER_02 1:48:00

I love that. Wait, let's see, let's see, let's see.

SPEAKER_09 1:48:04

Yay!

SPEAKER_04 1:48:06

That's like all I got. Uh okay. Uh I I can't really talk to about horses at all, and uh I've been uh uh I I have been my wallet's very happy. I've been getting a lot of extra work this week. Yeah because someone has been someone had to go to the hospital, and so I had to take over their responsibilities for a little bit, but they're and now but now they're back, but also they're kind of warming up to getting back into full-time things, they're still recovering, so I'm still covering some of their responsibilities. So uh I've been making more money, and I've also uh am completely exhausted of all times. Uh so uh thumbs up.

SPEAKER_10 1:48:39

There.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:40

That's it for me.

SPEAKER_10 1:48:41

Cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:41

Cool.

SPEAKER_10 1:48:42

So I can talk about Batman, even though I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:44

Please touch Please I need us to get the news. I need to live.

SPEAKER_10 1:48:50

It's already been like two hours.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:52

We have to do the news.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:53

Yeah. I I I have not like eaten much in the way of food today, and I have I have snacks sitting on my desk, but I'm not breaking into them during recording because they're loud. So I'm just sort of like still looking at them very forward as my body slowly becomes more cold.

SPEAKER_07 1:49:11

If you if you if you gotta crunch on the podcast, it's fine.

SPEAKER_10 1:49:14

You can crunch on the podcast.

SPEAKER_07 1:49:15

I'm gonna open this loud ass plastic real quick. Okay.

SPEAKER_10 1:49:18

Do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get out of the way. Right now, yeah, baby.

SPEAKER_07 1:49:20

Thank you. Open AI will shut down Sora video app. Disney drums plans for one billion investment.

SPEAKER_10 1:49:27

It's uh mostly just funny to see everybody making jokes about Kingdom Hearts Swords coming out on top, you know.

SPEAKER_07 1:49:34

Uh, did you see? I saw one that was uh Ben Diskin, the voice of Young Zayanor doing a recording of like, yes, finally Sora has been defeated. Oh, it's the AI thing? Oh, well, that's good too.

SPEAKER_10 1:49:46

Yeah, it's really good. Um that bubble's gotta pop someday, folks, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:49:51

This is a uh this is a pretty big needle in it.

SPEAKER_10 1:49:53

God, I hope so.

SPEAKER_07 1:49:56

Um yeah, no, this was this was just they were just like, yeah, this is shit. It's not what we wanted. Get rid of it. And they're like, but we spent a billion dollars on it. And they're like, I don't care.

SPEAKER_10 1:50:05

I don't care. Fuck that.

SPEAKER_07 1:50:07

Uh, you can't use it to make uh a bunch of AI garbage with our uh copyrighted characters. We don't we didn't want that.

SPEAKER_10 1:50:14

Right.

SPEAKER_07 1:50:17

Um Speaking of Speaking of Disney, Epic Games pins Fortnite comeback on Disney Partnership. The fucking They're making a Disney extraction shooter.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:32

Because Arc Raiders is really big.

SPEAKER_10 1:50:34

R C Raiders is really big.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:35

Okay, so never mind the fact never mind the fact that Marathon came out and is by all accounts uh doing pretty well except for the fact that it allegedly cost between 100 and 200 million dollars to develop over a course of eight years. And um projected sales figures for this$40 game are somewhere in like the one or two million.

SPEAKER_08 1:50:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:58

Uh so like not a great not exactly turning a profit yet or in the foreseeable feature. But yeah, you know, Epic uh and they just had uh is this in the was this in the news last time, or uh are we gonna talk about the thousand layoffs, by the way?

SPEAKER_07 1:51:15

Uh I didn't put that in here, but yeah, uh Disney uh uh or some Marvel product, Marvel uh studios.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:23

Oh, I wasn't talking about those I wasn't talking about those layoffs, I was talking about the Epic Layoffs the Epic Games layoffs that like a person I know actually got caught in.

SPEAKER_10 1:51:34

That's not in the news, but it's crazy to be like, yeah, we're gonna have Epic Games make our Disney extraction shooter, whatever the fuck that means. So um with a thousand less people.

SPEAKER_07 1:51:45

Yeah, the article So So the one thing is you're like a Disney extraction shooter, your immediate thought is like fucking Mickey and Aladdin and like and it's in a Tarkov! Yeah, and it's like no, it's not that. What it is going to be is Marvel, Star Wars, and Avatar.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:05

But but it's still in a Tarkov!

SPEAKER_07 1:52:07

Yeah, but but like but like oh, a Marvel multiplayer shooter thing, like rivals the thing you already have, and that's doing great, by the way.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:17

And so like, here's the thing you could do a Star Wars Tarkov, right? And like okay, it's like Scrappy Rebels or whatever. Like, that's okay, it kind of works. You know what the problem is? R raiders already exist, yeah. And it's a vaguely Star Wars inspired kind of retro sci-fi junk thing. Like, you you're not just gonna make literally our creators.

SPEAKER_07 1:52:42

Yeah. Yeah, this is this is again the problem that that every AAA studio is doing, which is oh, the thing that's already wildly popular, we're gonna make that and also be wildly popular, even though people have already been filmed. They already have the thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:58

They're not gonna migrate to yours. Right. Guys, guys, look at this. Uh I have I actually got a leaked screenshot of the Star Wars or extraction shooter that they're making. Look, it looks so much like Star Wars.

SPEAKER_10 1:53:08

God, it's right. I mean, I didn't know that art creators looked like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:13

Yeah, no, it it it's very uh it's very VHS core retro sci-fi. Uh it looks like and like oh, you know, here's another uh another screenshot that's you know, this is from sorry, this confusion. We've we said that it was from Arc Creators, but this is from the Star Wars Extraction Shooter. I mean, look at it. It's got it's Star Wars Extraction Shooter. That's a rebel right there.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:31

Star Wars Extraction Shooter, alright. Jesus Christ, I didn't really.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:34

Anyway, both these companies are run by fucking morons.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:37

That's cool.

SPEAKER_07 1:53:38

Like it's it just what you could do, yeah, you could make you could make a Star Wars extraction shooter, and then it could be Star Wars, right? Like it could be like uh a new chapter in the Star Wars, you know, universe or whatever.

SPEAKER_10 1:53:52

Right, whatever.

SPEAKER_07 1:53:53

But instead you're going to make it a Marvel Star Wars avatar thing, which is just company.

SPEAKER_10 1:54:00

Yeah, it's just product, right? It's just product. Like there's there would be no unifying kind of aesthetic that would make it cool or unique. It's just product.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:09

I I I heard the the the mystical wizard Yen Cid is showing off his newest magic trick. It's called How to Make a Billion Dollars disappear.

SPEAKER_09 1:54:17

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_07 1:54:19

No, we we we slaved Yensid alongside Sora.

SPEAKER_09 1:54:22

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_07 1:54:24

Definitely, definitely. Um YouTuber who lost lawsuit to Donkey Kong high score contender Billy Mitchell is now suing him for emotional distress.

SPEAKER_10 1:54:36

What? Sorry, I didn't hear about this one at all. What?

SPEAKER_04 1:54:41

So I didn't hear this about a follow-up. I know the first part is about basically Billy Mitchell sued a guy for like propagating the uh Billy Mitchell's a fucking cheater and hack fraud uh thing, and Billy Mitchell's like, this is defamation, and also you have no proof, etc. etc. And the court uh cited in his favor. Right.

SPEAKER_07 1:54:59

I think we talked about this very briefly, like years and years ago. This was a long time ago. Um so now uh Carl Yopst, the person who sued Billy Mitchell sued in the first place, is now counter-suing him for emotional distress.

SPEAKER_10 1:55:16

That's not gonna work out for you, dog. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_07 1:55:26

Because Billy Mitchell is a scumbag.

SPEAKER_10 1:55:28

Yeah, no, he sucks ass. Nobody likes Billy Mitchell, but like that, it's I mean, emotional damage is is so vague. It's so vague, it's really, really hard to prove in court. Like, it's kind of like American liability laws. I mean, ironically that Billy Mitchell managed to win the liability lawsuit because you you do have provable you have to prove like material harm to your reputation, right? Right to to actually prove libel. You know what I mean? Like libel and slander, there's the joke about libel and slander over in the UK. It's way easier to convict it on that. That's why you have people who are being basically compelled by the court obnoxiously to apologize to J.K. Roll. Right. Because it's way easier over in the UK. But here in the United States. Um it's actually really hard to prove. Um, even harder to prove than than libel and slander, though, is the vague notion of emotional damage.

SPEAKER_07 1:56:37

Because it's like, oh, I lost my lawsuit. Yeah, that would make you sad.

SPEAKER_10 1:56:42

Yeah, like that would make you sad. You have to like show. I mean, you have to basically show that it was um what's the word? That it was targeted, that it was intentional, that it was um excessive, and that it caused you both physical and material harm to your mental state. And that the that that was the intent of the slander was to cause that, right? Right. That is really, really basically this is a lost cause.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:18

Now, what I will say is uh this is we're all gonna have egg on our face when this goes to court and he presents like 16 uninterrupted hours of ring footage of every single night Billy Mitchell showing at his up at his house, roaring drunk, and just taking a shit on his butt on the front door.

SPEAKER_10 1:57:41

Congratulations. That's a slam dunk open and shut case. Right. Good for you. I hope he's got that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:49

Um But then the thing is Billy Mitchell can just go, no, he doctored that footage. The judge will go, fuck he got you there. Yeah, oh yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_10 1:57:57

I ran all this shit through Sora, speaking of yeah, no, uh boy, you know that you know that shirt that you sent me a billion years ago, Saturn, the uh the death of consensus reality, but from uh from Rory. Um that shirt just becomes more and more true every day I wear it.

SPEAKER_09 1:58:17

So, you know, no big deal.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:19

I think they they finally put that one on a he he like partnered someone to be like, because like he they do all the the things like small printing or whatever.

SPEAKER_10 1:58:28

But they also have they've actually started storing some of their more popular shirts.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:32

Yeah, well they I think they're working with a uh with an with a with a different printer where like I don't think it's a print on demand, but I think it is another printer where it's like, yeah, we we keep the popular one. So I think you can actually get that now. Okay.

SPEAKER_10 1:58:43

I hope so. Uh because I love that shirt and it never stops being true.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:48

Yeah. The only reason I don't own it is because I know you own it, and I'm like, that that's Sarah Stees.

SPEAKER_10 1:58:54

I don't want to I don't want to crimp on Sarah Stees. Yeah, you don't want to step up. We might hang out together and actually wear the same shirt for once.

SPEAKER_07 1:59:01

Uh next, GTA 6 hackers say they will release the breach data after ransom demands not met. The day after I added this article to Docket, they released the demand the breach data, and it turned out to be like sales, numbers, but some some budget things we already kind of had a good idea of.

SPEAKER_10 1:59:19

Kind of interesting, I mean, kind of interesting stuff, kind of like boring number stuff, but like also if you have my specific kind of brain disease, you get to learn how much GTA online makes Rockstar every day, and it the answer is a lot of money. Right. GTA Online makes Rockstar a lot of money, um, which is basically what is paying for uh GTA 6's development, right? Um they make a truly absurd amount of money off of GTA Online, is what I learned from all of this. Um, and I think it's kind of fascinating. Yeah, but it's not it's also kind of boring and dry and rote.

SPEAKER_07 1:59:56

Yeah, it's not, it's not there's nothing spicy in it. It's just like, oh, that's that's neat. We have some numbers to put on things.

SPEAKER_10 2:00:02

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I don't know why they thought they could ransom this information.

SPEAKER_07 2:00:06

Yeah, this isn't really maybe not ransomable. They might have thought they had more than they actually did. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:14

You know, well, I think I think realistically they were bluffing uh with the hopes to get uh money. Yeah, also possible, yeah. Um you don't have to tell them what's in it, you can just say, yeah, we have information.

SPEAKER_07 2:00:25

Yeah, yeah. Um yeah, no, but it it does give a good idea of like how much money Rockstar makes and why GTA 6 can cost billions of dollars.

SPEAKER_10 2:00:36

Because they have an extremely reliable, near constant supply of money at all times. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:43

Yeah. It's going to be so funny when all that development budget just does not pay off.

SPEAKER_10 2:00:51

There's no way it can.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:52

Yeah. Because aside from just like, there's no physical way it can, it's also like I increasingly believe this is true, uh, without like literally any evidence besides the length of the dev cycle. That game is going to come out, and the world and things it is parodying are already no longer going to exist. Correct. Culture moves too quick nowadays. There is going to be an whole the the plot could very well spend three hours on a thing about NFTs.

SPEAKER_10 2:01:22

Totally. And it's just gonna not be relevant at all, right?

SPEAKER_07 2:01:27

Yeah. Um we'll see in um But that's enough about Judas.

SPEAKER_08 2:01:35

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:01:39

I was about to say, we'll see in two years, which also applies to Judas.

SPEAKER_10 2:01:43

That game's never.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:44

Oh, that game's all coming next year.

SPEAKER_10 2:01:48

Yeah, two years for Judas. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:50

There's two two things happen. One, Judas comes out before 2030. Two, Judas never comes out, and Ken Levine mysteriously disappears and is found later as a skeleton, like in a river. Like five years, like in like 2035.

SPEAKER_07 2:02:08

Well, what's gonna happen is is in five years, Ken Levine is going to announce a brand new game, and it's just gonna be Judas, but he changed the color. You know, you see that meme from Edda and Eddie of them trying the same scam and they just paste new things on the sign?

SPEAKER_09 2:02:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:02:29

That's just gonna be what happens when Judas gets cancelled and Ken Levine announces a new game.

SPEAKER_10 2:02:33

He's just gonna make that blonde bitch in the trailer just literally be Elizabeth again.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 2:02:37

Instead of just being blonde Elizabeth, it's just gonna be Elizabeth, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:02:41

We're gonna get a trailer for his new game. He's like, Judas, uh, you know, Judas is canceled, I got this new game, and it's going to conspicuously have characters that look pretty similar to the ones in Judas, uh slash are literally reusing models that were made for the characters in Judas. But uh, and also most of the tone and content is going to be the same. Uh except that inexplicably the Tears of the Kingdom like gluing stuff together is in it now.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:03:07

Yeah. Uh are we sure Ken Levine didn't take a time didn't like use a time machine to be the guy who was making the original Duke Nukem forever? His fingers are probably on there somewhere.

SPEAKER_10 2:03:21

It's gotta be yeah, no, that sounds about right.

SPEAKER_07 2:03:23

Uh speaking of a long time, after 20 years in pre-production limbo, a Metal Gear solid movie may finally be on the way. Oh believe it when I see it.

SPEAKER_10 2:03:34

Yeah, sorry, that one is not happening. Unless you're getting, as I've learned, unless you're getting Zack Krager to make it, who just keeps fucking popping out movies like left and right, which for him weapons kicks ass and that resonating movie sounds good. Um and he's got like two more movies on the way, which is awesome. Unless you've got fucking Zack Krager attached, that movie's not coming out. You know what I mean? I don't believe it. I don't buy it. Um if you as we were talking about in the Discord, if you want to watch a Metal Gear Solid anything, go watch Legends of the Galactic Heroes. Sarah, that doesn't make any sense. Yes, it does. You'll see.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:17

Here's my thing.

SPEAKER_10 2:04:17

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:18

Here's what I think. You're gonna get a Metal Gear Solid movie. This is the only way it's gonna be made. It's not gonna be Metal Gear Solid 1 because it's whack. It's a video game. It's a video game ass video game. It's basically Metal Gear 2, but on the PS1. You're gonna it's gonna be Metal Gear Solid 3.

unknown 2:04:33

Right.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:33

Oh, yeah, it could be Metal Gear Solid. Because you can do that for relatively cheap and like it's raw, raw American. Like you can probably get to the US military to like to like pay you some money for that. Like it's it's it's it's fairly it's fairly pro it's it's not too un-American for their for their taste.

SPEAKER_07 2:04:48

Right.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:49

Uh and you have Oscar Isaac playing uh naked snake.

SPEAKER_07 2:04:52

So Saturn Yeah. Saturn, Oscar Isaac was confirmed to be playing Snake when this movie was announced six years ago.

SPEAKER_10 2:05:01

That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_07 2:05:03

That's so thanks, Divine Connection to the Noom. Uh so just to clarify, Hollywood Reporter has uh confirmed that Sony Pictures has announced Zach Lopowski and Adam Stein, the directors of Final Destination Bloodlines.

unknown 2:05:22

Ha ha.

SPEAKER_07 2:05:23

To make the Metal Gear Solid movie. Uh aka whoever was available.

SPEAKER_10 2:05:28

That's correct. Okay, okay, guys. This movie isn't real. Come on.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:34

Uh they they probably who's a guy who's directing the Elden Ring movie? They probably wanted him, but he's too busy directing the Elden Ring movie. A thing that nobody wants and yet he's going to make.

SPEAKER_10 2:05:48

It's Alex Garland, I think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:50

They probably wanted him to make the Metal Gear Solid movie. I think that's a good one. He's too busy making other trash.

SPEAKER_10 2:05:54

Unfortunately, Alex Garland did make that dog shit fucking Civil War movie. Not the not the Marvel one, the other one with all the AI shit. But he also made Annihilation, a movie I think is good. Um, so I was like, oh, I think Alex Garland could make a Metal Gear Solid movie, but now he's too busy making a fucking Elden Ring movie that nobody has for. I fucking I don't know, man. What do you even make it?

SPEAKER_04 2:06:17

Like, I say this is someone who's played through Elden Ring about three times and who really likes Elden Ring and likes the deeper story behind Elden Rings. What the fuck do you make an Elden Ring movie about?

SPEAKER_07 2:06:28

Uh you uh it's a it's a person in the real world who gets sucked into the game.

unknown 2:06:33

Shut up!

SPEAKER_04 2:06:34

I f I think I've I think Hidataka Miyazaki would literally fly to America from Japan to personally assassinate Alexander. I think the only thing you can honestly do, and it's not even the thing they said they'd do, so like I don't think they're gonna do it. Like, the only way I can think you could reasonably make a like two, two and a half hour long Elden Ring movie is if you adapted the story of the DLC.

SPEAKER_08 2:07:04

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:05

Because it's fairly self-contained and he just like massaged around the edges a little bit. But like they're not gonna do that because they're not calling it Elden Ring Shadow of the Urn Tree, they're calling it Elden Elden Ring, yeah. So what the fuck? Nick Offerman's apparently confirmed to be in it, and I have no earthly idea who he could possibly be playing.

SPEAKER_07 2:07:25

Well, he's he's the he's the real guy, the human world guy who gets up in the game.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:29

Yeah. No, he's not. He's d he's like 50 years old or something.

SPEAKER_10 2:07:34

See, the thing is Nick Offerman, like, it's kind of this whole, you know, um, they apparently He's like curmudgeonly. No, I mean Nick Offerman is actually a really cool guy. And he plays Ron He plays Ron Swanson, who is like a libertarian, but like Nick Offerman himself is like a cool guy, right? Um, it's kind of this idea of like fucking, you know, they announced that Stephen Colbert and his his kid are writing a Lord of the Rings sequel movie. Fucking, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 2:08:03

Apparently, Colbert is some like Oh, he's like Savant for Lord of the Rings. Yeah, like insane Lord of the Rings super fan, which I had no idea, but that makes perfect sense to me.

SPEAKER_10 2:08:12

He has been that has been a running thing with Colbert since the Colbert rapport on Comedy Central. He has always been like the one thing that's not a character. No, it's like a dyed in the wool, like true, like true blue, deep to his bones, like Lord of the Rings sicko type guy. Right? And I respect that.

SPEAKER_04 2:08:34

Do you think like when his writing staff made him, like made Lord of the Rings jokes, he went, No, you have to put in brackets do a Lord of the Rings joke here. I will come up with one that is better and more clear.

SPEAKER_10 2:08:48

I a hundred percent guarantee you that's what it was.

SPEAKER_07 2:08:50

There's a clip I love from the Colbert report where he breaks character to talk about Lord of the Rings, where it's like in his opening monologue, he's like talking about a news report where like scientists named a nude breed of spider after Smeagol.

SPEAKER_10 2:09:04

Right. And he gets so mad about it because there's already a fucking spider in Lord of the Rings. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:09:09

And also, also, you wouldn't like his big boy is like, you wouldn't name a gross creepy spider who lives in caves after Smeagol, who was the good hobbit. You would name it Gollum.

SPEAKER_10 2:09:19

Yeah. No, he goes, like, he's like the real fucking deal. And I feel like Nick Offerman is in the same boat where he is the real fucking deal, but you probably shouldn't be involved with this thing you like a lot because you're just it's just too you're too disconnected from it. Like even though you're a big fan, it's you don't have the writing chops to be involved. Right. Um I don't know. It's very strange. It's we're living in weird times, folks. I don't think that Elden Ring movie is ever gonna happen in the same way. I still don't think that Metal Gear Solid movie is ever gonna happen.

SPEAKER_04 2:09:55

No, of course not.

SPEAKER_10 2:09:55

No, it's not really.

SPEAKER_04 2:09:56

I think the Elden Ring movie is at least more likely to happen because it's easier to convince people with money that people would want to see a movie for one of the highest selling video games of all time, Elden Ring.

SPEAKER_10 2:10:09

Yeah. But then, like, I know that Metal Gear Solid has also selled a lot, sold a lot, excuse me, Zeled Solid.

SPEAKER_07 2:10:15

Seld Snake.

SPEAKER_10 2:10:17

Solid Snake. Um but I think that Metal Gear Solid as a thing is too weird and dense. I think that any Hollywood executive would read the script that came across their desk, no matter how much you dumbed it down into a spy thriller, right? And I still think they would read it and go, no, I'm not okaying this.

SPEAKER_04 2:10:41

Like the and I think the other thing is too, it's like people actively care about Elden Ring right now. The reason I don't believe the Metal Gear thing is because people haven't cared about Metal Gear in 10 years. Yeah. Because that's as long as it's been since there's been a real Metal Gear game. Yeah. Um, yeah, because Delta doesn't count.

SPEAKER_10 2:11:04

No, God.

SPEAKER_07 2:11:04

Well, also fucking Survive doesn't count either.

SPEAKER_10 2:11:07

Exactly. The game everybody forgot about basically as soon as it happened.

SPEAKER_07 2:11:10

Yeah. I think Saturn is right though that you would you would do three if you were going to make a movie. I mean, I think you can make one. Because three is just a Cold War spy thriller.

SPEAKER_10 2:11:19

I actually think you could make one um very easily and very cheaply. I think you could actually make one more cheaply than you could make three.

SPEAKER_04 2:11:28

Um I just think you have to take so much out of one for it to make sense as a standalone story that you'll lose metal gear.

SPEAKER_10 2:11:36

I get that, but I think in terms of ease of adaptation, because of like where one is set and the fact that one is at least a little bit more straightforward to that compared to three, right? Right. I I think if you were gonna adapt anything, I think one I mean it is one or three, but it's kind of you know, six in one hand, half a dozen. Of the other type shit, right? Um, I just lean a little bit more toward one.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:06

My thing for my thing for three is that it basically has a three-act story structure, and also you film all of it outside.

SPEAKER_10 2:12:15

But actually, outdoor filming is very expensive versus filming everything in like a warehouse full of catwalks.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:24

True. Yeah, but I mean like but the outside exists already.

SPEAKER_10 2:12:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:28

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_10 2:12:29

But like there's their bespoke thing. Like there are people, there are whole companies that exist just to have a warehouse full of catwalks to shoot your movie in, right?

SPEAKER_07 2:12:41

That's how Tokyosatsu exists.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:43

I guess I guess my other thing though is if they make a Metal Gear Solid 1 movie in like 2026 or 2020, whatever.

SPEAKER_10 2:12:50

Literally, who the fuck is this for?

SPEAKER_04 2:12:52

Yeah, who cares? Yeah. Well, not even just who's this for. There, and I I hate to say this as though it's an important part of the character of Metal Gear Solid 1. They're gonna have to sand off a lot of things to remove like the race science element of Metal Gear Solid 1.

SPEAKER_09 2:13:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:13:10

That is that is foundationally a story about what if race science was based, actually.

SPEAKER_10 2:13:16

Fuck, I know, I know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 2:13:18

It's got Measurehead in it, and he's got a minigun.

SPEAKER_10 2:13:22

I feel like the actual answer, because it's Hollywood and it's a Hollywood adaptation, is that the actual answer is that it is somehow both a Metal Gear Solid one and three adaptation at the same time.

SPEAKER_04 2:13:35

Yeah, if you just did like a bespoke thing, like I guess that's the other thing, is like I would honestly rather an adaptation, rather have no, we're doing the movie version of Metal Gear Solid where we have just chopped and screwed it to actually play well as a movie.

SPEAKER_10 2:13:49

It's kind of like the fucking Silent that first Silent Hill movie, and kind of even the the other Silent Hill movie with Kit Harrington. Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_07 2:13:57

Where they just they just chop all the bits up.

SPEAKER_10 2:14:00

Yeah, exactly. It's kind of like that. So I I think that's what's that's the most likely outcome here, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:14:06

Because because you know what that just makes you think, you know, it would be a much easier and more sensible movie to make than Metal Gear Solid 1 is if you just did the plot and setting of Metal Gear Solid 2, but you made it be with Metal Gear Solid 1 characters.

SPEAKER_05 2:14:20

Yeah, that's what you would think.

SPEAKER_04 2:14:21

Like if you just gave if you just gave Solid Snake Ryan's exact story and everything.

SPEAKER_07 2:14:27

The rookie who comes into his first big mission. Well, that's Metal Gear 1.

SPEAKER_04 2:14:31

Yeah, I mean it would basically be like a fucking Metal Gear 1 with- The thing is Sean Connery isn't alive anymore, so you can't you can't have how you can't have old man Big Boss. It wouldn't be right.

SPEAKER_02 2:14:42

I know.

SPEAKER_07 2:14:43

You get Daniel Craig to play him.

SPEAKER_04 2:14:44

Oh no! Actually, you know who you get is uh instead of because you know you don't have you don't have Sean Connery anymore, but what you get instead is uh to play the role of Big Boss is you get hold on, is it one second. One second. I'm making sure I have that. Yeah, you get Kurt Russell.

SPEAKER_10 2:15:05

100%.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:07

That would be such a good shit.

SPEAKER_10 2:15:08

Shut up, don't say that. Because he'd do it.

SPEAKER_07 2:15:10

He'd totally do it. Now I'm now I'm kind of sold.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:16

And like the thing is, like, uh he hasn't been in much lately because he's old, but like he's still actively, he's still doing some kinds of acting. If he's big boss, you could just have him sit down. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 2:15:27

And Kurt Russell has already done the villain thing uh very famously in Guardians of the Galaxy 2. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:32

Yeah, like the other, if you can't get Kurt Russell to do it, I know he doesn't have as much of a direct connection, but you could also get Clancy Brown to play Big Boss, and I think that would be pretty cool. That would kick it.

SPEAKER_07 2:15:43

That would also work really well, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 2:15:45

But I actually am now imagining the version that is like technically Metal Gear, but is also kind of Metal Gear Solid 2 as a movie, and and Big Boss is played by Kurt Russell, the guy who inspired Solid Snake. Um, in my head, I'm envisioning it, and it's actually good as shit.

SPEAKER_07 2:16:02

Yeah, and Oscar Isaac as Snake would work really well.

SPEAKER_10 2:16:05

Oscar Isaac is not gonna be Snake in 2026.

SPEAKER_07 2:16:08

Not in 2026.

SPEAKER_04 2:16:09

Not in 2026. Because he's in he's in his like late 30s, early 40s or things.

SPEAKER_07 2:16:15

But he's a little for the character. I'm gonna suggest someone to play Metal Gear 1 rookie snake.

unknown 2:16:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:16:23

Uh Ben, I think I know exactly who you're gonna suggest, and I want to hear you say it. Jack Quaid.

SPEAKER_07 2:16:29

Literally, I was going to say Jack Quaid would be pretty good for a thinking could do it as rookie metal gear one snake.

SPEAKER_10 2:16:38

But I don't want to put Jack Quaid through the fucking um Hollywood bulkifying machine like they did to Chris.

SPEAKER_07 2:16:45

Well he just wears a big sneaking suit.

SPEAKER_10 2:16:48

They would noticed they would still put him through the bulkifying machine like they did to Chris Pratt.

SPEAKER_04 2:16:53

But the thing is, like, for what it's worth, compared to how Yoshi Shinkawa draws him, Snake is like he's li his pr his measurements and weight would uh paint him as alive.

SPEAKER_10 2:17:04

But I but I understand that. I do, but I'm thinking of Hollywood male beauty standards, right? Like, those are two completely different things. I don't think they would let Jack Quaid escape unscathed from I just think this forehead is perfect to have a bandana round around.

SPEAKER_07 2:17:23

You're so no, you're so right. I think Jack Quaid, I think Jack Quaid could get in good enough shape that it wouldn't be.

SPEAKER_10 2:17:29

But I don't want Jack Quaid to get into that kind of shape.

SPEAKER_07 2:17:32

Because like this is what this is what Metal Gear 1 snake looked like. Like he's not that he's the snake has never been like that buff in the first place.

SPEAKER_10 2:17:38

I no, I understand what both of you are saying, but I'm saying I know Hollywood movies, they would still make him do it. Right?

SPEAKER_04 2:17:45

I guess that's true. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_10 2:17:47

Like, you're right that Stalin Snake is actually not that buff and that Jack Quaid has the face for it, but like also that's just what movies do these days. And I don't I think Jack Quaid doesn't deserve that. But you're right, I think Jack Quaid could do it. That's that's more so what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_04 2:18:06

Right. Unfortunately, I would I do want a later Metal Gear movie like Forror Revengeance era, if only because I need it to be that late because I need it to be possible for Charlie Day to play AutoClass. Oh no!

SPEAKER_07 2:18:30

We're we're doing the kind of Twitter Twitter fan casting that would get you chased off the internet, but it works so fucking well.

SPEAKER_04 2:18:39

I can just hear the thing, I even even at even at his current because he's like 50 now. But he looks young. But he looks young for his age, but I'm also just I can imagine with perfect crystal clarity the scene in Metal Gear Solid 1 where Charlie Day is playing Audacon and like Sniper Wolf is on screen saying something, and Charlie Day is just very conspicuously occasionally looking down at her breasts and then looking back like completely stone silent with like no expression on his face whatsoever.

SPEAKER_07 2:19:05

I'm imagining Charlie Day with long hair, and that's unsettling.

SPEAKER_04 2:19:09

Much like uh fucking Jack Redler or uh or uh who's a Red Letter Mia who grew his hair over like for a year. Oh, Jay? Jay.

SPEAKER_08 2:19:18

Jay, that's right.

SPEAKER_07 2:19:20

Oh no, this would it it would work, though, it would be so good.

SPEAKER_10 2:19:23

Oh next, next.

SPEAKER_07 2:19:28

Uh former Xbox veteran says canceling The Last of Us Online was the right call, criticizes Naughty Dog and Sony for greenlighting it in the first place.

SPEAKER_04 2:19:37

I mean you're telling me that the that a that a Microsoft executive likes when Sony makes bad business decisions. Crazy.

SPEAKER_10 2:19:44

Crazy. This is a very interesting thing because, like, yeah, he's right, but also he's biased.

SPEAKER_07 2:19:50

Yeah, but also like the way Naughty Dog cancelled this, or no, Sony canceled this uh in the first place was like uh absurd.

SPEAKER_10 2:19:58

That game was almost done.

SPEAKER_07 2:20:00

That was it was uh 24 hours they found out internally before Sony made it public.

SPEAKER_10 2:20:05

And the thing is on paper, I like the idea of a Last of Us online game isn't terrible. Like I don't love it. I mean they they had it in Last of Us One.

SPEAKER_07 2:20:21

Yeah, they have didn't have a multiplayer, like a uh uh not like what was it, like an arena shooter type thing or something?

SPEAKER_10 2:20:27

Yeah, they had like a multiplayer mode, then this would have been the more like always online type shit. It just kind of would have been, and like I don't, I'm not like a huge Last of Us fan. Like I played the first game and I enjoyed it, and I think two is it's a game I'll probably never play, right? Like I like the Last of Us One fine, you know, and that's kind of my opinion of The Last of Us One. Um but I actually genuinely think that a Last of Us One online game probably would have done well. It would have been like a 76, right? Because those are two very similar kind of things. You've got your post-apocalyptic setting, but it's not like super bonded out and shitty. It's actually quite lush and beautiful, right? Right. I think those both but the thing is that 76 does not make a shit ton of money. It makes enough money, it does well enough. Like it's held together by like a handful of very dedicated whales, and that's about it. And and Fall It First is everything.

SPEAKER_04 2:21:24

But Sarah, like, here's the thing you know it doesn't make that much money relative to its contemporary, but still makes way more than enough money for it to have been worth it and would definitely do this kind of money as opposed to Fallout 76? Red Dead Redemption Online. Absolutely, a game which compared to GTA Online may as well be a failure, but is still in the year of our lord 2025, pulling in$25 million a year, which is crazy to me.

SPEAKER_10 2:21:49

And that's the thing is that, like, this all goes this idea of games that were not going to make a billion dollars, and that's the only reason they got cancelled, right? I think The Last of Us Online would not make a billion dollars a year, but I think it would make decent money, and that's the only reason it got canceled. And so I actually think this Xbox guy is wrong. I I actually think they probably should have just put that game out. Like they were almost done with it, they were like 80% done with it. Like I might, I don't know, like that I would have played it if it was decent enough. I might have actually played it. But like conceptually, the idea of like an overgrown apocalypse video game, you know, with like mushroom monsters. Yeah, sounds compell like is compelling enough that I think would have done well, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:22:40

There is a whole society out there of underserviced mysterious uncles who would be fucking throwing a hundred dollars a month at the last of us two online RP open worlds.

SPEAKER_07 2:22:53

Yeah, are you like this like I don't know what form it would have taken, probably like a like a like a Daisy thing almost, like a really like survivalist, like you've got nothing, you drop in, you try to scavenge whatever you can, you know, stamina, resources, etc., all that kind of stuff. Like I don't think it'd be I don't think it'd be waggy community like 76 is, but like it'd be the one that's space building as shit, no.

SPEAKER_04 2:23:17

Well say again, like the the touchstone would be Red Dead online, which like it has a couple because it's you know the wild west, there's a couple little towns and stuff, but for the most of the part you're just like out there in the shit, like doing missions and fighting bandits and bears and stuff.

SPEAKER_06 2:23:31

Yeah, you know, it could be like that.

SPEAKER_04 2:23:34

They have they have a model, uh a proven model, which is something you basically never get.

SPEAKER_07 2:23:38

But but it would not have made Naughty Dog uh$10 billion every day, so it has to go. And yeah, well, how's heretic how's the fucking heretic problem for you? We have to fire all these people who probably could have worked on heretic as well. So, you know. Right.

SPEAKER_10 2:23:54

And it's just like you could have instead just I mean, that game was 80% done, is what they were saying, right? Like, put that game out, let it I mean, do fine. Let it make money, let it make money, and then put those people to work making heretic, right? Like I think you know it it's weird, uh, because I am a I am a live service game hater, despite the fact that I play three of them, right? Um I I actually think a Last of Us online game would have uh is like easy money.

SPEAKER_04 2:24:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 2:24:25

Like I think it would have done extremely well.

SPEAKER_04 2:24:28

It has like a create a character and you can do like some RP with your friends, like it would, that would that it would have a market.

SPEAKER_07 2:24:34

It has a market, it generates money forever, but it's it's the point we we make over and over and over again, which is that if it's not going to do the best, right?

SPEAKER_10 2:24:42

Then it gets cancelled. Yeah, it's crazy to me. That is it's such easy money in my head. It's like to me, like a regular person, Last of Us Online is easy money. That's it's free money, right?

SPEAKER_07 2:24:56

It turns out that you can actually do really well by being sort of okay and coasting on just enough sales.

SPEAKER_10 2:25:05

You you actually can coast again. 76 is the model for this. You can just kind of coast off of vibes. Yeah. Like if your game has decent vibes and it's just kind of fun to goof off and play with your friends, um, that actually does a lot. And I think it's a last of us game is would have been very vibe-oriented.

SPEAKER_04 2:25:26

It's really helpful too when those games like have like don't aren't that connected to like a broad storyline that you have to care about, which is why, you know, they uh canceled uh the Last of Us One in favor of I guess uh doing uh contributing more resources to the horizon MMO uh or whatever's going on with that instead of making a a third horizon game.

SPEAKER_10 2:25:48

Yeah after that second game ended on an insane cliffhanger and that game did pretty well sales-wise. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:25:53

It's so funny that by the time that third game like is even remotely gonna come out, no one's gonna give a fuck anymore.

SPEAKER_08 2:25:58

Nobody is gonna give a fuck.

SPEAKER_04 2:25:59

What the most cursed fucking franchise in the world.

SPEAKER_07 2:26:02

Hey, remember when Wolfenstein 2 ended on like a huge like turning point in the story, and then the next one was uh was a uh numbershooter?

SPEAKER_10 2:26:11

Was a numbershooter co-op game that nobody cared about? Yeah, it's crazy. Uh oops.

SPEAKER_04 2:26:17

I don't know, Wolfenstein 3.

SPEAKER_07 2:26:19

It's uh it's it's the thing I always go back to when thinking about like these these projects that get can these overzealous projects that get cancelled because they aren't they aren't going to do better than anyone. I always think of Weird Al Yankovic, who is a man who has been constantly touring and putting out music since the 80s.

unknown 2:26:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:26:38

And the reason he's been doing it is because he's just famous enough to coast on relatively mild, successful concerts and tours and album sales.

SPEAKER_09 2:26:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_07 2:26:50

And he is content at that level.

SPEAKER_09 2:26:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:26:55

And he's he's outlasted so many artists that he's done parodies of.

SPEAKER_10 2:26:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:27:00

Because he's like, no, I'm good.

SPEAKER_10 2:27:01

No, I'm good right here. But that is not the nature of the Capitol, the beast of the right.

SPEAKER_04 2:27:06

So it's crazy how often, because I was thinking about uh because it came up with with regards to that, like uh, you know, the Foraxis Marvel game that didn't do very well, and like the people leaving that studio to make their other kinds of like pseudo-XCOMs, right? Right. And thinking about XCOM, and like that XCOM 2 and its DLC both did really well, and then they put out like a spin-off game that was kind of like uh XCOM 2, but with a defined cast of weirdos and a completely different setting and and like stuff that's like the same game, but it was like a spin-off that was totally very different that no one really liked or wanted, and then there was never another XCO game after that. And how often the games industry loves to just be like, well, nobody loved this spin-off to the second game, so clearly no one actually wants a third game. And it's like, I'm gonna kill you.

SPEAKER_09 2:27:59

Fuck me. Alright.

SPEAKER_07 2:28:03

It's time for some good news.

SPEAKER_10 2:28:05

Please.

SPEAKER_07 2:28:05

Uh, project update, handlebra by Sentinel Comics and Greater Than Games brand. Uh, so a while ago we talked about how um the tariffs uh forced uh Greater Than Games to close their doors, and the Sentinel Comics entire license was in limbo.

SPEAKER_04 2:28:24

Oh right!

SPEAKER_07 2:28:25

Yeah, the uh the board game production was shut down because of that. Um and they finally did manage to put out uh because they had the the copies of the game in storage, but they since they weren't a company anymore, they couldn't actually get them delivered to their customers. But they finally got that worked out, so people who pre-or who backed the uh Kickstarter for the definitive edition expansion for Sentinels, those finally went out and have been received. But now uh the company that makes the uh PC version of Sentinels in the multiverse uh just bought the license outright. And the company greater than games. So they it's been basically just saved. Um so the com the assuming the board game will the definitive edition of the board game will continue production. Um they've purchased uh the Sentinel's multiverse uh board game, like the original board game and the definitive version, the comics RP tabletop RPG, the tactics game, and Galactic Strike Force, which I don't know what that is exactly, but it's part of the Sentinel's uh umbrella. So it's saved.

SPEAKER_09 2:29:39

Yay! Yay!

SPEAKER_04 2:29:42

I I can I I can totally understand this too, because I I'm looking at like Handelabra and like all like how many things they've made are the the Sentinel stuff, and it does make a lot of sense to go like, well, wait a minute, like we can afford for this to no longer be like a licensed IP hanging over our head instead just sort of be uh ours.

SPEAKER_07 2:30:03

Yeah. It's it's very Riftrax MST3K Kickstarter. Where it's just like, well, we we know how to do this. Why don't we just do it now that we can?

SPEAKER_10 2:30:16

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 2:30:18

Um so good. I'm very glad to hear that because it sucked that like my favorite board game of all time uh was forced to shut down when they were like just putting out new expansions for the actual card game.

SPEAKER_04 2:30:32

And hey, maybe them like having the license for the RPG means at some point when I'm less busy I can send them a proposal like, hey, do you want someone to write a Sentinels of the Multiverse Tabletop RPG edition that has like some more interesting mechanics and better formatting and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_10 2:30:52

And a more cohesive character building setup than 500 pages of a book, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:30:59

And I'll just be like, because to be clear, you don't have to pay me to do this beyond royalties. I've in fact already written it. Here's a draft if you'd like to absolutely I I just need you to like reach out to someone, do good PDF formatting and maybe some art for me, but you're like, you know, uh, please, please, just please.

SPEAKER_10 2:31:18

I just need this game that I like a lot, and I think is really good to have a better non-combat section of I need like I need you to flesh out the RP section of this tabletop game so that it plays better with the with the combat section of of your game. Have you ever thought about that?

SPEAKER_04 2:31:39

Um the but my my my secret Saturn's trick is that you get it's like oh wow it's time for it's time for Sentinels and the World Leapers RPG uh uh second edition. It's like this system seems kind of familiar. What's this Dusk of all thing they keep talking about here?

SPEAKER_10 2:31:57

Just wholesale. It seems like, hey, it seems to me like you took pages from the Blades in the Dark uh players' guide and just kind of stapled them into the rule book for the first edition of Sentinels of the Multiverse, and you're like, don't worry about that.

SPEAKER_04 2:32:14

I'm just like, well, yeah, John Harper did that with like the concept books for FIFA and Dishonored, so you know he doesn't have any right to complain, jerk off animation.

SPEAKER_10 2:32:21

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 2:32:24

Uh speaking of movies, by the way, that are never coming out.

SPEAKER_09 2:32:28

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_07 2:32:29

Bloodborne is officially returning as an R-rated animated movie.

SPEAKER_02 2:32:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:32:35

Produced by Jack Septiceye.

SPEAKER_02 2:32:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:32:38

When I think of when I think of quality names in filmic entertainment, I think of Jacksepticeye.

SPEAKER_02 2:32:46

I still don't know who that fucking is.

SPEAKER_04 2:32:49

Uh he's like he's literally just early 2010s, like fucking uh golden era, like let's play blow up, whatever.

SPEAKER_08 2:33:00

Okay.

unknown 2:33:00

Fucking.

SPEAKER_07 2:33:01

I guess he is a I guess he is a big fan of Fromsoft games, but like I don't think. Yeah, no shit. Like me and tw me and 20 million other fucking people. Like, I don't think he's like no he's not like the definitive From Soft.

SPEAKER_10 2:33:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 2:33:15

He was in he was in dispatch, he plays punch up and dispatch.

SPEAKER_10 2:33:19

This is smoke. This doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_04 2:33:22

This is this is 100% him being mad because knowing that he is a contemporary and also has worked with him on other projects, him being jealous that Markiplier put out an adaptation of Iron Lung that by all accounts did as well as could be expected for like a three million dollar YouTuber movie.

SPEAKER_07 2:33:38

Uh yeah, we'll I'll I'll see it when I've leave it when I see it.

SPEAKER_04 2:33:42

Yeah regarding I do think they should make another looper where Markiplier plays the younger version of the old man character play by Keanu Reeves. Looper too.

SPEAKER_10 2:33:55

You maybe make that movie better than it is. Sorry, Ryan Johnson. I don't Think Looper is very good.

SPEAKER_04 2:34:02

Sadly, uh the t all with as with all time loop stories, I would say the vast majority of them are kind of shitty.

unknown 2:34:11

Pretty much.

SPEAKER_07 2:34:11

There's that whole that whole video that uh Pointless Hub point out put it out the other day about uh dumb time travel movies.

SPEAKER_10 2:34:19

Fuck. Good video. Sorry, it owns that Chris Pratt got outed as like a weird evangelical freak and immediately got booted into just like the worst movies you've ever seen in your entire life.

SPEAKER_04 2:34:33

Just plummeted. Okay. Well, it's not just that, it's that they use also uh like a rabid anti-vaxxer, and so no one wanted him for their fucking in-person roles when lockdowns were happening.

SPEAKER_07 2:34:44

Uh fucking freak. Yeah. Yeah, well, I'll uh uh smoke. Yeah, the idea that somebody wants to do anything with Bloodborne.

SPEAKER_04 2:34:54

Uh I don't believe it.

SPEAKER_10 2:34:55

It's very funny.

SPEAKER_04 2:34:56

Yeah, yeah. I mean, they won't even remake it without fucking Miyazaki's approval, so good luck getting your shit-ass animated movie off the ground, fucking idiot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 2:35:05

How many more we got?

SPEAKER_07 2:35:06

One more. Finally! Subnautica 2 Steam Change suggests Crafton might be out as its publisher following long legal battle and reinstatement of Studio Leader.

SPEAKER_10 2:35:17

So funny. This is so funny. I I mean, like, the thing is, at the end of the day, this is still just as like a CEO getting his bonus. That bonus doesn't go to everybody else, as far as I'm aware. Right. Um, which kind of fucking sucks. But I am glad that Subnautica 2 is probably going to get to exist after much meddling from Crafton. Um Craften being massive dickheads does not bode well for the existence of future uh good ass game. Why can I not remember? I've had I've I had a couple drinks before we started recording the the musical DMC game.

SPEAKER_07 2:35:56

Oh, deader than dis dead like disco?

SPEAKER_10 2:35:59

No, the good one.

SPEAKER_07 2:36:00

Oh, uh Hi-Fi Rush?

SPEAKER_10 2:36:01

Hi-Fi Rush.

SPEAKER_07 2:36:04

I thought you were talking about like the newer one that just came out.

SPEAKER_10 2:36:08

No, no, the good one. Yeah. Uh the Crafton being a bunch of shit um does not bode well for the existence of a hi-fi rush too.

SPEAKER_07 2:36:18

Yeah, I don't I think we have to give up on that dream.

SPEAKER_10 2:36:21

I'm sorry, y'all. That game is not gonna be real. I want that game to be real because I love Hi-Fi Rush. Um, but that game is not gonna be real, guys. Yeah. Sorry.

SPEAKER_04 2:36:30

Yeah, well, uh, it's it's a thing where uh after uh Crafton is going to be uh brutally eating the uh legal costs of this whole debacle. Yeah. Uh there's no way, like video game development spending being down as it is, there is no way they're actually going to be like, yeah, we got a couple million dollars to blow on making a second Hi-Fire.

SPEAKER_07 2:36:52

Yeah, throw on this vanity project that uh no one really had uh hopes in in the first place.

SPEAKER_09 2:36:59

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 2:37:00

A game that people liked, but was not by you know most marked market metrics like that successful.

SPEAKER_07 2:37:11

Again, it didn't it wasn't the best uh game to ever come out, so there's no chance it will ever get a sequel. Um so the story was updated today, uh, by the way, with a so the the front of the article is that um Subnautica 2's Steam page was updated to remove Crafton as the publisher. Um which seems to hint that uh uh Unworld like it'll be self-published by Unworld Unknown Worlds Entertainment instead. Uh Crafton has put out a statement uh in response to this saying, quote, it's currently focused on successfully supporting the early access launch of Subnautica 2. We have nothing further to share at this time.

SPEAKER_10 2:37:59

Interesting.

SPEAKER_07 2:38:01

The Steam page, as far as I know, has not been re-updated to include Crafton as the publisher.

SPEAKER_04 2:38:08

No, uh my thing that I believe, and this is like the the most eventual reason through it, is that at least on the unknown world's entertainment side, like business-wise, for like, you know, the the resulting judgments from the Delaware courts and all that, uh, I think this is just straight up them going, like, this is the easiest way that to make sure that after all everything else we've been through, that Crafton doesn't proceed to try and fudge our earnings revenue as well to try and find a different way to get the CEOs to not be paid the bonuses for for success if they earn that.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:38:50

So that that one seems like a thing where it's less like it's not signaling that like there's a depreciation between the two companies so much as it is like this is a uh a structural way for them as this is like court remedy. Yeah, right. This is a way for this is like a way to make sure that there's not going to be any further meddling in trying to prevent uh craft and sea or uh unknown worlds uh departing CEOs from getting uh bank.

SPEAKER_07 2:39:16

Yeah. This yeah, the this quote to me more implies like successfully supporting the early launch access means like we're in the transition period of getting our hands off of it.

SPEAKER_10 2:39:27

Yeah, well, absolutely, you know.

SPEAKER_04 2:39:29

And as and not even that, I think it's literally just if it's unknown worlds as the publisher on Steam, it means that the money from Steam is being sent to unknown worlds instead of having to get wandered through Kraft and then them having to be dependent on Crafton's bookkeeping to tell them whether they met their goals or not. Right. I I I I still think very clearly Crafton still owns them and is still going to continue owning them and probably be involved in the in Subnautica 2 going forward, I'm sure, but yeah, I don't I don't really know how this is all going to resolve.

SPEAKER_10 2:40:02

I I do wonder if this can end in in Unknown Worlds um essentially buying their freedom. I don't know. I uh it's it's kind of like that kind of happened with Bungie back before they got snatched up by Sony, right? Like Bungie was able to buy their um independence from Academy. So I kind of wonder if they can use this uh judgment as like leverage to separate themselves from Crafton, and in the meantime, Crafton is contractually obligate to support the early access launch of Subnautica 2. I don't know. It's very interesting.

SPEAKER_04 2:40:41

I'm not sure how much it depends what the hold on, what was it bought for?

SPEAKER_10 2:40:46

Yeah, it all depends on how much money that Crafton has poured into Subnautica and Ownknown Worlds.

SPEAKER_04 2:40:54

Right. Because part of the thing with Bungie is also like aside from their own money, because Bungie is like, like, you know, they were I don't think they were ever owned by Activision. They were just like uh it was a thing of them doing uh contract developments, that's just how they worked. Right. Them being purchased by Sony is the first time they've stopped being a independently owned company.

SPEAKER_10 2:41:12

Yeah, I think it's more so that they purchased the rights of Destiny back from Activision.

SPEAKER_04 2:41:19

And that is because Bungie had at that point had the like basically had the clout to go, we're not signing this deal with you unless you give us an exit clause that allows us at your option to buy it back from you. Like if you go like we don't want to do this anymore, we we you have to let us purchase it from you instead of just keeping it and throwing it in the trash. Right.

SPEAKER_07 2:41:41

It's to me it's it's just one of those things where like these the the money and and ownership being exchanged so is so vague as a as a layman is so vague and uh indeterminate. Like I can't perceive of where these where the separation is in situations like this, you know? Like I'm not I'm not I'm not seeing these documents. I don't know who technically owns what and how it's being distributed. I can only go off what the Steam page tells me, basically.

SPEAKER_09 2:42:15

Right, yeah. Uh we'll see.

SPEAKER_07 2:42:18

Yeah. We'll we'll see if this page gets updated any further or if we get any more articles about money being exchanged and and where this lawsuit goes.

SPEAKER_10 2:42:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_07 2:42:30

Huh.

SPEAKER_10 2:42:31

Is that it? Are we that's it?

SPEAKER_02 2:42:33

I think this is somehow managed to avoid another three-hour long episode, baby.

SPEAKER_07 2:42:37

I think this is this is the biggest ratio between what we've been doing versus news segment we've done.

SPEAKER_10 2:42:45

We absolut we had to speedrun that fucking the news section because we spent so long on what we've been doing. Yeah, I think I probably could have talked longer about what we've been doing, but I was a good girl.

SPEAKER_04 2:42:55

Oh, Sarah. Oh, I s d I so we so we don't know what they bought uh the company for because it wasn't a normal buyout. Yeah, there we go. What happened is that so uh for a very long time, Unknown Worlds was owned by uh the Chinese publisher Perfect World. Okay. Um uh and I think I I forget what their thing is, but they owned the majority of the stock in uh that company. After Subnautica 1 comes out, like a year afterward, they just they just liquidate all their shares basically. And then uh Crafton, uh presumably, either either from the the studio founders or just in general, just bought those shares up and now they're the company that is in control of them.

SPEAKER_07 2:43:40

So it wasn't like a normal buyout. Uh see that adds another layer to all of this now. Sure.

SPEAKER_04 2:43:50

Alright, alright. Um the lesson is, kids, never go publicly traded.

SPEAKER_10 2:43:56

Never let yourself get bought out, no matter how tempting it sounds in the moment, because somebody has just showed up on your door with a fucking sack full of cash. But never, ever let somebody buy you out. I'm sorry, that's always the wrong decision. That's why we're in this situation to begin with. I understand that capital is so hard to raise for video game development. I really, I really, really do. And part of like getting bought by a publisher means you are being given access to all of this money, but you are giving so much up in exchange that it seems uh quite literally like a devil's bargain, right? And you are never going to come out on top of a devil's bargain. That's literally why it's called that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:44:43

Okay. Okay. Uh thank you to Broke for free for your server background music. Email us at thegorgepodcasts meal.com, follow us on our social medias on Blue Sky. Uh join our Discord, subscribe to our Patreon, Patreon.com slash thegorge, etc.

SPEAKER_10 2:44:58

etc.

SPEAKER_07 2:44:59

Listen to our other podcast, The Reboot, uh, where we play Sentinels of the Multiverse Tabletop RPG. Um we're probably gonna stream something on Friday. I don't know what yet. Depends on Oates' availability.

SPEAKER_04 2:45:15

Who knows? Oh, yeah, and uh speaking of streaming, uh, we finished Of the Devil episode two. We did do that. And it's just also if you if you want to catch the VODs for that, uh all of the uh existing uh Of the Devil VODs, as well as everything from my personal channel is over at youtube.com slash at TTV Mystery Systems. Nice.

SPEAKER_07 2:45:36

And then um whatever we do on Friday, we will also eventually be picking back up Ace Three Investigations 2. And um Sarah and I will be going through Resident Evil Requiem at some point.

SPEAKER_10 2:45:47

Yay!

SPEAKER_04 2:45:49

I want to go through Resident Evil Requiem. You can come with us too. I've already seen it, but I want to see it again.

SPEAKER_10 2:45:55

I just figured yeah, I just figured because you'd already seen it, you wouldn't want to come and watch us play Resident Evil Requiem.

SPEAKER_04 2:45:59

I know I I want to hang out with you fucking idiots. What else are we gonna do with my day?

SPEAKER_10 2:46:03

Okay!

SPEAKER_07 2:46:04

It's gonna be a It's gonna be a Ben and Sarah joint with guest stars.

SPEAKER_02 2:46:09

That's right!

SPEAKER_07 2:46:10

I say I'm just a guest star after all this time.

SPEAKER_10 2:46:14

Guest starring Saturn while we uh while we play Resident Evil Requiem.

SPEAKER_04 2:46:19

And by that I mean Several years I known you, and you don't want to see me jump out of the case!

SPEAKER_07 2:46:23

Well, Saturn, Saturn, it's like it's like when uh like sitcoms in the 90s when like a guest star was like always there. Yeah. And so like what what is the qualifier for you being a guest star?

SPEAKER_10 2:46:34

That's just fucking Star Trek Deep Space Nine. You're Garrick, Saturn. Congratulations.

SPEAKER_07 2:46:40

Saturn! Okay, you get to be Jeffrey Combs.

SPEAKER_10 2:46:44

Yeah, that's true, where you're basically in every episode, but you still get labeled as guest star. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:46:51

I'm always like wearing a different costume and pretending to be something completely different. And no one ever acknowledges that I look really like the guy who they saw last week.

SPEAKER_09 2:46:59

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 2:47:00

I think they should have, like, in the in the uh like in that cartoon show, they should have had a bit where they uh canonized that uh every single character that Jeffrey Combs played in the extended Star Trek thing was actually someone from the Q continuum who was just like roleplaying for fun.

SPEAKER_10 2:47:19

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 2:47:19

Just just yes or no. Is Jeffrey Combs in Lower Dex?

SPEAKER_10 2:47:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 2:47:24

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_10 2:47:25

Yes, he is. Good, good, good, good, good. He plays a great role, is all I'll say.

SPEAKER_07 2:47:28

Good. I that's something to look forward to.

SPEAKER_10 2:47:31

Yeah, please look forward to Jeffrey Combs in Lower Decks. He's great.

SPEAKER_07 2:47:34

So uh but yeah, that'll do it for us then. Um I'm excited to hear more about Sarah's adventures into Batman.

SPEAKER_10 2:47:43

Fuck Batman!

SPEAKER_04 2:47:47

That's not the usual kind of fuck we use for this end of this end of episode event.

SPEAKER_10 2:47:54

Batman Beyond is a really good cartoon.

SPEAKER_04 2:47:57

You were about to say I can't prove anything.

SPEAKER_07 2:48:00

You posted in the middle of the how much Batman fan art and and Danmora art you've been liking.

SPEAKER_10 2:48:07

Dan Mora art of drawings and fucking Batman. It's horrible. I hate it here.

SPEAKER_07 2:48:13

Fuck Batman said all of his rose gallery and like three robins.

SPEAKER_10 2:48:17

That's frightened. I hate it here. I want to be f- I'm all I I already am pissed off and want to be free from this horse shit. How does anybody be a cop like a Western fan comic for Ben? How long have you been read you've been reading Marvel Comics?

SPEAKER_07 2:48:33

33 years.

SPEAKER_10 2:48:35

That's how long? How does anybody do this to themselves? I'm like, I I've been in it for like a fucking week, and I'm just like, this sucks. I hate it here.

SPEAKER_07 2:48:45

I always I always just go back to uh that panel of um of Nova like visiting the watcher and seeing all the parallel worlds, and he's just like, how how do you keep track of this? All of the timelines, all the all the different continuities. What do you my brain is melting? I can't comprehend it. And it's just uh an MCU fan getting into comics for the first time.

SPEAKER_04 2:49:12

Uh see, for me, my brain's small, so whenever I I'm like, I I I think like, damn, I love uh Noi from Doro Hetero. Uh I have this comic that's called Doro Hetero and it's about 20 volumes long, and that that's it. That's all I gotta worry about.

SPEAKER_10 2:49:28

I gotta I gotta tell you though, I brought it up in the Discord though. There is something weirdly, because like it for yeah, you know, it's weird because when you're a teenager, you're like, oh, manga is so much easier because you just read the one thing and you're done, right? But then you get into like your one piece situations where it's been running for 30 years and there's like 10,000 chapters, right? Um with Western comics, you literally can just go, hey, which run should I read? And you just get to kind of cherry-pick whatever sounds interesting to you. And in a weird way, that is kind of liberating. You don't actually have to care about the continuity, you just have to care about what you think sounds cool.

SPEAKER_04 2:50:11

So, like, like but but also but the the thing is I understand what you mean. Yeah, but also I love that when I'm finally like, you know what, I've been putting it off for long enough. I I I'm finally gonna read one piece and you go, hey Sarah, where do I start One Piece? And you go, at chapter one. Yeah. I will tell you, I would never read in linear order.

SPEAKER_10 2:50:34

I would never tell you to start One Piece at chapter one. I would tell you not to read One Piece because I'm a good friend who loves hypothetically.

SPEAKER_04 2:50:44

The one who encourages me on purpose to do things that are bad for me instead of just being tacitly enabled.

SPEAKER_07 2:50:52

Would ask Sarah, where do I start One Piece? And she would say, You don't read one piece. Then you turn to me and say, Ben, where do I start one piece? And I'd go, chapter one, friend.

SPEAKER_04 2:51:01

Exactly. And then I go, so Ben, after chapter one, I I read chapter two. Is that how you're gonna go? That's right.

SPEAKER_07 2:51:08

All the way to chapter 12,000, baby.

SPEAKER_04 2:51:11

Uh and I'm like, wow, uh straightforward. Yeah, a very straightforward pursuit that I can make very obvious, I can make measurable progress on.

SPEAKER_10 2:51:21

And I understand for sure. That is the project. You can you can take it, it's a it's a complete piece of work. You can just read all of it. Well, it's mostly complete piece of work until finally Hero Oda dies uh five chapters away from the end of one piece, calling it right here.

SPEAKER_04 2:51:35

Um did you see that news article from recently, by the way, where's like this is the thing that has the end of one piece on it, and he puts it in a box of places.

SPEAKER_10 2:51:43

And now people are literally trying to dredge it up from the bottom of the ocean. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 2:51:48

I hope they do. It's gonna they're gonna open, it's gonna be a note that says ha ha you thought.

SPEAKER_10 2:51:52

Yeah, that's true. Um, but I gotta, I gotta say, there is something kind of weirdly like I understand the joy of a project of reading something that is you know 1200 chapters and getting to the end of it and be like, wow, I'm finally cut up on One Piece. Um but there is something kind of interesting and cool about being like it's this is the thing that I think sounds interesting to me. And because of the nature of Western comics, because these are like stories that everybody knows, right? You don't actually need that much context. You can just kind of go in to like a an ex an especially interesting run of detective comics and come out the other end and be like, oh, that was fun, but I don't need any more.

SPEAKER_07 2:52:34

There's there's two points I want to make about this, which I think are really great about comics, which is everyone's like, you know, there's recommendation lists all over the internet. People are like, where do I start with comic books, right? The thing is, everyone's like, you start with this run or this run or this run when their first comic was the third issue in a in a random ass 4-4-parter from 1993 that has nothing to do with anything.

SPEAKER_10 2:53:02

Right.

SPEAKER_07 2:53:03

Um, and the other thing is that like comic recommendation lists are are are not really good for the internet, like like just looking for like a list of the best comics. Right. What you want is a friend like me or someone in the Discord, right, who is like, hey, you're Sarah, you're like, hey, I like Batman the Animated Series, I like the DCAU, I like these aspects of Batman. Which comics have those aspects in them?

SPEAKER_10 2:53:33

Right.

SPEAKER_07 2:53:34

Like, if do you want wacky goofy Batman adventures? Well, then you read this, this, and this. Do you want it more serious, like noir, like mystery, then you read this, this, and this.

SPEAKER_10 2:53:46

And it's like I can see the strengths of like the the manga approach and the western comic approach, is what I'm saying. Because like I kind of have already done this song and dance with Transformers comics, right? Like I just cherry-picked what I thought sounded interesting, and I had a perfectly interesting and fulfilling relationship with the Transformers comics as a result, right? Like, you don't have to go read like in one piece, you have to read the shitty arcs to get to the good arcs. That's just part of it.

SPEAKER_04 2:54:15

And like Yeah, I did that in FGO as well, even though I didn't have to.

SPEAKER_10 2:54:19

Exactly. And that's kind of interesting. I don't know. I I think there's merits. What I'm saying is that there's merits to both approaches.

SPEAKER_07 2:54:26

There's pluses and minuses.

SPEAKER_10 2:54:28

You know, so because you can get a bit more of a condensed thing when you're reading a comic book run. It doesn't, you know, you can you can spend a weekend reading an interesting run of such and such comic and you're done.

SPEAKER_04 2:54:40

My my my my thing is though, it's like I don't necessarily mind doing that, but if I'm going to read someone's shorter original story, I would rather like it be their original story instead of having this uh weight of being connected to this sort of like I don't know what you'd call it, this pseudo-iconographic like culture of of a character who is animated by dozens of different writers and artists across decades and decades to the point where the character does not really have a context anymore.

SPEAKER_10 2:55:14

Well, yeah, but I don't care about somebody's original character. I care about how hot Bruce Wayne is.

SPEAKER_04 2:55:18

Yeah. I have I have great news for you about people who draw men online and how often they just sort of look like Bruce Wayne.

SPEAKER_07 2:55:27

Yeah, but this is where he's not wearing the cape. So, you know. You know, there's there's an important I know he's not wearing a cape in a lot of those fucking pictures Sarah posted either. No, is he? But this is why, this is why Bendis' Ultimate Spider-Man is the best comic ever made because it's both. It is true. This is true. Western comic about a specific superhero.

SPEAKER_02 2:55:50

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_07 2:55:51

But it's pinched like a manga. And it's correct. One writer for a decade.

SPEAKER_10 2:55:56

And Bendis' fucking ultimate Spider Man run actually is pretty good. I read a lot of Listen, I'm just one woman.

SPEAKER_04 2:56:10

Listen, the idea. And I'm not saying this to judge you. I'm saying like the cape is not the part that is being locked on here.

SPEAKER_07 2:56:18

So sad, sad, let me let me explain this. Like, it's the fact that he normally has a cape but he's taking it off that makes it special.

SPEAKER_02 2:56:24

That's right.

SPEAKER_07 2:56:25

Yeah, sure, whatever you tell yourself.

SPEAKER_04 2:56:27

You wouldn't give a fuck if he had a cape on normally or not. I'll see Joshua Graham wearing any capes.

SPEAKER_10 2:56:33

You have to be nice to me. I hate it here.

SPEAKER_04 2:56:35

No, it's quite. I quit.

SPEAKER_10 2:56:37

I hate this.

SPEAKER_04 2:56:38

I'm defending your dignity from I'm defending your dignity from Ben going, yeah, no, it's the cape that does it.

SPEAKER_07 2:56:44

No, no, it's the same thing as like if you have a character if you have a character who normally wears like a a nicely pressed suit, they automatically look hotter when they're disheveled wearing a hoodie.

unknown 2:56:53

That's right.

SPEAKER_07 2:56:53

If you have a character who normally wears a hoodie and has a shoveled hair, they're automatically hot hotter when they put on a suit and tie.

SPEAKER_02 2:56:59

It's a whole listen, I want out of this conversation.

SPEAKER_10 2:57:01

I'm pulling, I am in fact pulling the escape cord on this conversation.

SPEAKER_04 2:57:05

Okay, we don't have to we don't have to record any more of this conversation, but I do think this uh this uh comparison that Ben brought up is pretty funny because this is uh right here on the image I'm looking at as well.

SPEAKER_08 2:57:14

I get your own.

SPEAKER_04 2:57:15

Yeah, there you go. Bruce Wayne can do both.

SPEAKER_07 2:57:19

Get you a man who can do both. Good night, everyone.

SPEAKER_04 2:57:22

But all I'm saying is independent independent of Bruce Wayne. And like independent you could have that effect with a with a with any with any character who was similar to that but just wasn't literally Bruce Wayne. It's not the same.

unknown 2:57:37

I don't want that.

SPEAKER_04 2:57:38

Art is about transformation and sometimes about going, damn, Bruce Wayne's kind of sexy in in Batman. I'm gonna turn him into a different kind of guy for my story that's about a thing that's like self-sustaining.

SPEAKER_07 2:57:50

Yeah, that's what Batman writers have been doing for decades.

SPEAKER_04 2:57:53

No, because they are silently leaning on the character and existing backstory elements of Batman.

SPEAKER_10 2:57:58

Okay, I would like out of this conversation.