Episode 305: "Call It Voyager The Way I Ain't Gettin' To That Dick For Seven Years"

The Voyager Book Report is over! The Comic Book Report Continues Unhindered

VOY Book Report 37:15-1:07:39

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Double Fine Is Unionizing

Nintendo announces Switch 2 price increase, consoles will soon be $500 in the US

MARVEL Tokon: Fighting Souls adds Hulk, Black Panther

STRANGER THAN HEAVEN launches this winter

Greater Than Games Ownership Returns to Original Founders

Netflix misspells a lead Devil May Cry character's name and has to recall official merchandise

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:20

This is The Gorge. It's a podcast. My friends and I gorge ourselves on what's happening in the world of video games and entertainment.

SPEAKER_07 0:26

I also gorge ourselves on tacos, so give me a second. The Gorge is brought to you by Patreon. That's Patreon.clownClum?

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Compatreon.clown.

SPEAKER_07 0:34

That's us, baby!

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Tim Heidecker voice Patreon.clom.

SPEAKER_07 0:38

Mm-hmm. Um slash TheGorge. Where for just $3 a month, you gain access to all of our bonus content and you get early access to our TTRPG series, the reboot, a Sentinels of the Multiverse RPG. It's good. Please go listen to all of it. We are coming up on the 10-year anniversary of this podcast, which is fucking bizarre.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Next episode.

SPEAKER_07 1:00

Next episode will be the 10-year anniversary. We have the most predictable thing possible in store for you. Please look forward to it. But that means you get 10 years of back content for just $3 a month. There is so much to listen to if you love the sonorous sound of my beautiful voice. Crazy. I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

And if you think about it, like $10 10 years of bat content for $3 is basically as much content as being able to play through Shadowbringers for free. It's true. And similarly good.

SPEAKER_06 1:44

I would think so. I think we're at least as good as Shadowbringers.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

I think we also have like a very divisive uh section, kind of, you know, in like the three-quarters of our way through, and then it gets really, really good and it peaks there.

SPEAKER_06 1:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Just like Shadowbringers.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Unfortunately, uh, unfortunately, people don't like the current gorge content that much because they've resolved my arc, but they refuse to let me die in battle.

SPEAKER_07 2:08

Comparing yourself to Thancred, that's brutal, Saturn.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

I mean, I would never I mean I would never, but I'm used to being to being signed fourth whenever the full gang is around, and I've just sort of denigrated myself to a position of loveliness.

SPEAKER_07 2:22

I would never ever Saturn.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Saturn puts hand on your shoulder. You're at least a Rianjai.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Oh thank God. Also, I will say, uh wasn't specifically referencing Fancred, just making a sort of general reference about a large swath of the cat.

SPEAKER_05 2:46

The first character that came to mind with me. I'm like, damn.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

Thank is the most uh He's the most extreme example for it, to be sure.

SPEAKER_07 2:55

Um But patreon.com slash Theorch. In the meantime, yes, there is one week until the 10th anniversary, so um, we are just doing a normal ass roundup episode.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 3:08

Um which, I mean, that means, hang on, I gotta pull the list up. That means it's time for more of Sarah Red Batman comics.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

Also, everyone, I'm sorry if my voice sounds so scratchy and I might be coughing a bit more. Uh I am recovering from an illness.

SPEAKER_07 3:26

That's fair. That's fair. Um, Ben has tea, I have soju. We'll be fine.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Yeah, yeah. I have water because I'm being the responsible for you.

SPEAKER_07 3:34

So responsible. Good for you. Dear listener. Just the just the dear listener. Right before we hit the record button, Saturn was bemoaning the fact that they did not have soju to enjoy with us.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Yes, to be clear, if I if I had my beloved Jinro Peach on me, I would also be lighting up. But I only have I only have kind of mediocre brandy de res, and it's just I'm not I don't want to drink that stray, and I don't want to put I don't want to have it with any Dr. Pepper right now. I've had enough caffeine today.

SPEAKER_07 4:02

Yeah, that's fair. Um okay, Batman Book Report, because I haven't well I have I have two things to talk about. One is Batman Book Report and the other is a different uh now for something completely different. Um where did I stop? Did I did we talk about Court of Owls last time?

SPEAKER_02 4:16

Uh I think so, yeah, you did.

SPEAKER_07 4:20

I've been busy since then. So I will try to be fast. Um I read Frank Miller's Batman Year One. It's the thing that um actually interestingly tied to Court of Owls. So Batman Year One, Saturn doesn't know, is kind of like the we're gonna it it was like the canon kind of we're gonna take like the known Batman backstory and like give it kind of an update in the form of just kind of what the first you know year of being Batman looked like, right? It's really good, it's not as good as the Dark Knight Returns. It's kind of all of Frank Miller's worst impulses in there. Um but the art is fantastic, and it's where you get the famous Yes, Father, I shall become a bat page, which is really good.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

That's crazy that that was that late.

SPEAKER_07 5:11

Yeah, it's crazy. Um, and it is then directly speaking of Court of Owls, it's directly referenced in Court of Owls years and years later, um, where it's followed up with that same bat getting its head torn off by an owl in like one of my favorite pages of anything of all of these comics I've read yet. It's so good. Um I highly recommend The Court of Owls, by the way. Again. Um, it's super good. It's it's got all of Frank Miller's worst impulses as well. Um, I don't like it as much as The Dark Knight Returns, because how could you? It's The Dark Knight Returns. It's really good. The art is fantastic, though. Um, Bruce's face is explicitly based off of uh Gregory Peck, which is a great, great fan casting for the 80s. Yeah. Um after that I read Chips Zadarski's The Night. The only thing I have to say about it is that they turned Batman into a bisexual with anger issues. 11 out of 10, it's the best one I've read yet.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

That's the one with uh Ghostmaker, right?

SPEAKER_07 6:12

Yeah, it kicks ass.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

I need to read that one. Wait, turned him into, I thought I know.

SPEAKER_07 6:18

They made it more explicit. So apparently, so there's a shot early in the comic where um Bruce tries to he does kiss and is then rejected by uh a Turbo Hot French MILF. Tough luck, buddy.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Uh we've all been there.

SPEAKER_07 6:34

I know, and even immediately afterwards, he's like, Am I a fucking moron? Um, but you know, good for you that you tried. And it has a very specific kind of panel layout, and then like three issues later, he's hanging out with his insanely hot friend that he met at a you know Tibetan monastery learning martial arts as one does. Um, and there's like this little moment where the panels look the same, you know, because of course DC is never gonna let Batman actually be bisexual, of course. Um, but those are.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

No, I think they said something like heroes don't do that.

SPEAKER_07 7:08

Yeah, heroes don't do that and they don't eat pussy, which fuck you. Um but it is like a it was intentional. Like the parallels there were intentional because Chip Zidarski is a fucking genius. So um it's really good. The art is great. Uh there's a plot, I think, but who cares? All that matters is is what's going on between uh uh Bruce Wayne and Menkoa Khan uh because it's really good. Um, what else? I read Juni Baugh's Boy Wonder. It's a bit of a deviation because it's a Robin story instead of a Batman story. This one's really, really good. I liked it a lot. Um it's it's like its own self-contained little thing, and it's just about Damien Bruce Wayne's little illegitimate murder baby, um, learning how to be like a proper superhero. It has fantastic art. Um and if anything happened to Damien Wayne, I would kill everybody in this podcast and then myself, let's say. Right? Um it's real it's it's Jin, it's only five issues. So if you want to look at some really good art and read a really cute little story, um big recommend. Big, big Judy Ba actually just got uh three uh Eisner Award nominations today because of uh I because of his work on um the on a flash comic recently.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

So good for him.

SPEAKER_07 8:42

Very cool. Um I read Grant Morrison's 2009 run of Batman and Robin. I'm like trying to do these faster so we don't have a three-hour podcast tonight. Um I read Grant Morrison's Batman and Robin run from 2009. It's okay. This is the one where Dick Grayson is Batman and Damien is his Robin. Um the main plot line running through the story is just kind of whatever. It's not great. It's it's a little I it's hard to even see where all of the pieces kind of connect, right? Um it's it's very Grant Morrison. I know, Sarah, you've only read two Grant Morrison stories at this point. I yeah, but I'm already well aware, trust me.

SPEAKER_08 9:31

Uh I think I picked up on the vibes, as they say.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Um if you have yet to read a third to establish the pattern, you have thus far noticed the many coincidences.

SPEAKER_07 9:41

Yeah. Um, but it's carried super hard by the fact that Dick and Damien as Batman and Robin is extremely compelling because Dick Grayson hates being Batman. He hates it. And Damien hates listening to Dick Grayson. So there's like a really fun kind of back and forth between those two. Um, that's extremely just like really well done despite everything. Um, you can tell it was written in 2009 because Damien Wayne doesn't call anybody a slur, but boy, he comes close a couple times. Yanking on your collar, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Um I've been rereading uh bits and pieces of of Bendit's Ultimate Spider-Man. And uh Boy, you could just say the R-word whenever you wanted back then, huh?

SPEAKER_07 10:31

Yeah, you could. That was 2001, right?

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Yeah. But still, I mean they that comic had lasted a really long time, and they were saying it pretty late into that run.

SPEAKER_04 10:41

Yikes.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Uh to put this in terms that are relevant to uh Saturn's uh thing. I frequently forget until someone posts screenshots of it that Homestuck was using certain slurs in it through 2011-2012. As a funny joke. It's funny.

SPEAKER_07 11:03

Not funny. Um but it was still the first couple issues of of Batman and Robin were really, really good because it felt a little bit more contained and interesting. Um boy, they really don't know how to write Jason Todd, though, do they?

SPEAKER_02 11:20

Uh no, no one actually knows what to do with that character at all.

SPEAKER_07 11:26

Uh, Saturn, small thing. So Jason Todd was the Robin that came after Dick Grayson, right? And he very famously was killed by a reader pole back in the 80s.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Why would they do that? The poll, by the way, uh was uh rigged. What is it? A small group of people uh uh stuffed the ballot.

SPEAKER_07 11:52

That's so funny. Everybody wanted poor Jason Todd dead, man.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

No, not everybody wanted. Only a small group of people wanted him dead.

SPEAKER_08 11:59

Yeah, I guess that's true.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Um I've learned only one thing about taking other people's advice for when to make a story decision about what a character dies. Alright.

SPEAKER_03 12:10

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Here's a little piece of advice from from the very successful shonen author, Totsky Fujimoto. He asks his editor, I'm thinking about killing one of these characters, either Angel Devil or Kobenny. Which do you think I should do? And the editor said, Well, Angel Devil's really popular, so you should kill Kobenny. And he said, Okay, and then he killed Angel Devil in Kobenga.

SPEAKER_07 12:32

That's correct. That's exactly how you should do it. Um But so Jason Todd famously died uh via reader poll, essentially, and then they brought him back from the dead years and years later, and Under the Red Hood is a neat, interesting idea, and then they didn't know what to do with that character ever again. They are just like, does he hate Bruce? Does he love Bruce? What is going on? They is he a bad guy? Is he a good guy? Nobody knows what the fuck to do with Jason Todd. I have already learned that.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

It's it's the idea where it's like it's a great idea when you first have it, but then you think about it for five seconds, and then it's like, well, this doesn't work.

SPEAKER_08 13:13

Yeah, you need to settle on one interpretation of that character, and nobody can.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

How does Bruce handle the idea that one of his allies kills people? And the answer is he doesn't.

SPEAKER_04 13:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

He doesn't like doesn't like uh Jason, and then he doesn't let Jason kill people when they're doing stuff together.

SPEAKER_07 13:30

Yeah. There's a actually interestingly, apparently, um, speaking of Juni Boss, the boy Wonder, a lot of Jason Todd fans just don't like it because they don't like how Jason's written in it, and I'm like, wow, you should be grateful that Jason is written consistently and well at all in that comic. Because that's actually that's a really good way to write that character. Um but otherwise, no, it's off. Not even Grant Morrison can save uh Jason Todd from his his unfortunate unfortunate circumstances. Um yeah. Oops. Uh oh, also, um, it has three different artists on it, and that actually becomes a thing toward the like the finale of the of the stuff that Morrison wrote, where it keeps swapping between the three artists, which is cool in theory, um, but terrible in execution because you have one artist who's terrible, and one artist who's fine, and one artist who's fight Frank fucking quietly. Like, yeah, who do you think I'm gonna whose art I'm gonna want to look at, right? So it was good, it could have been better, but I'm glad I read it. Um, I should have read Batman RIP first, but I'm still learning. Um it's okay. It's like I said a while ago. Continuity doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

It's every everyone has a recommendation list, but their first issue was like the fourth part of a weird Thor event that happened that no one cares about anymore.

SPEAKER_07 14:59

That's correct. Um uh I'll do one more Batman thing and then we'll do a small pivot and then I'll be done. Um I read Batman White Knight. It's fine, it's a neat idea. It's like an AU of the DCAU where the Joker is cured and is like a good guy, and Batman is like a fucking asshole. It's really heavy-handed. Um it has like cool moments, but it's probably the thing I liked the least of all of the stuff I've read so far. I powered through it just to say I did it. Um it's just really heavy-handed, right? Like, oh it's it's doing all your normal, like trite superhero critique, and it feels like I don't know when it came out, but I know it was no matter when it came out, it was too late to be doing that kind of boring ass critique of superheroes, right?

SPEAKER_03 15:55

Right.

SPEAKER_07 15:56

Um has great art. I think one of the writers ended up being a comic skate asshole, so I won't be reading the rest of it. Oops. Oopsie doopsy. Uh has super good art though, which is just devastating. Um and then last but not least, I pivoted super hard and I read Grant Morrison's other thing, and probably one of his most famous things. God knows everybody talks about it. I read All-Star Superman.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Yeah!

SPEAKER_07 16:25

All-Star Superman kicks ass. It's it is bizarre and kind of dreamlike at times. Um it embodies everything that is comic books in like a really cool way. It's very comic book-y. Graham Morrison is a writer who just who just really loves their medium, right? Um and uh I enjoyed pretty much every moment of of All-Star Superman. It's really, really good. Um, also drawn by Frank Wiley, of course. Um and it's it's just great. It has a great ending, it's just it's so, it's so comic booky, right? Uh, the idea of a universe that exists under our own universe. What do we call it? The underverse, of course. Next question.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 17:18

Um I I adored it. I think it's awesome. Um yeah. Uh that's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

You should also read whatever happened to the man of tomorrow.

SPEAKER_07 17:30

I'm going to. It's on the list. Yeah. Yeah. No. I know that everybody says whatever happened to the man of tomorrow is really good. Yeah. So uh I'm gonna read that. And then oh right, one last thing, one last thing for real Z for Realsies. I did watch the animated version of Under the Red Hood. Um, which is probably, considering all the clips I've seen of all those other non-DCAU animated like DC movies, is probably the only good one if I had to get every other one. Looks kind of bad. We actually did watch the long Halloween adaptation, it was terrible. Um, I don't even want to talk. I just really didn't like it. Um but the under the red hood one was good, it's really weird. Uh, Jensen Ackles is in both of those, like the guy from Supernatural um is in both of those, and in one he plays Jason Todd, and the other he plays Bruce Wayne. He's he's a decent Bruce Wayne and a weird Jason Todd. Um but that movie is weird because it's like fine, it's perfectly watchable. You know what I mean? Like it's interesting and watchable, and it has like but the thing is, I was just watching it, it has so many interesting little animation flourishes that are like so good. If there's a reason to watch it, that would be why. Like, because it it's it's fine otherwise. I don't like any of those character designs, like the interpretations of those characters, right? Um why stop giving Dick Grayson short hair. Fuck you. Um but the animation them itself is really good because like you have to deal with the fact that you've got three different guys who are all degrees of Batman, right? You have Batman, Nightwing, and the Red Hood, and so you have to like really differentiate between their fighting styles, and they did a great job of it. I mean, that's like the thing I was watching the most, like with like my head tilted at a 90-degree angle the whole time, because it's way more effort than I ever expected. Um and it was it's just really well done. Like, Dick Grayson is an at is a former acrobat, so of course he is bouncier on his feet and is very like flourishy. Whereas um sorry, the cat just jumped down from something high up. I was wondering what that noise was. Um whereas like Jason Todd is a fucking Mac truck with an AK-47, right? So he just barrels through you, and then Batman is like kind of a balance between both, and you can see all of it really, really well. Like there was a lot of thought put into that, which is crazy. Um, and John DiMaggio plays the Joker, and I don't hate it.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

He's a good joker.

SPEAKER_07 20:17

He's a good joker. Do you know who's a better joker though?

SPEAKER_02 20:20

Who?

SPEAKER_07 20:20

Troy Baker.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

Yeah!

SPEAKER_07 20:23

It's weird. I wanna know. Like, I need to find him at a convention. I wanna know did he practice the Joker voice, or was that just a thing he discovered he could do? Because it is identical to Mark Hamill's the Joker in a way that is weird.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

I feel like it's just something that he he like practiced on his own.

SPEAKER_07 20:52

It's really good.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Honestly, the thing I found is that there's quite a lot of voice actors, especially with like who have a kind of more I would say neutral to like neutral tones slash register like Troy Baker, who just also are really good at voice impressions.

SPEAKER_07 21:10

He has the range.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Like, I'm I'm thinking about specifically how he is kind of a guy in the same voice actor, like uh Matt Mercer. Yeah, like Matt Mercer, or the one specifically I was thinking of is like Nolan North, who is a guy who basically got hired off of his ability to do a really good Nathan Fillion impression. And it turns out Nolan North is good at doing impressions of other voice actors too, as I think I mentioned on like last week's episode.

SPEAKER_03 21:39

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

A lot of those kinds of voice actors just also have a really good like couple of impress. Also, um fuck, who's that uh that one TV actor who keeps showing up on uh red letter media in the last year or so? Jack Quaid?

SPEAKER_02 21:52

Uh not Jack Quaid, but the other one who has the good impression of of Rick, of uh of um uh Mike.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Yeah, he does an impression of Mike, and then he's also like he's also got like a perfect Morgan Freeman and a couple of others where Arnold.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

His Arnold is amazing.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Yeah, and they're just all like there's just some category of guy who's like, no, I just can do all these.

SPEAKER_07 22:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

Yeah. That's why you pay me some money instead of non-money.

SPEAKER_07 22:18

It's um it's weird to know we just have a backup Mark Hamill joker whenever we need him, basically.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

And we need him. Oh god, do we need him?

SPEAKER_07 22:28

We need him so bad, because Mark Hamill's not doing it anymore because killer on his throat, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

Because he was, he was, I think Troy Baker was the joker in Arkham Origins.

SPEAKER_07 22:38

I believe that.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Because they didn't get they didn't get because that was that wasn't the game wasn't done by Rocksteady. They didn't get Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill. They I think they got Roger Craig Smith and Troy Baker.

SPEAKER_07 22:53

Okay. That I mean he's really good. It's really weird.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Um but actually apparently in the Arkham games, he mostly plays uh oh, he does play Joker. He also plays Two Face and he plays Robin.

SPEAKER_07 23:08

Oh my king, my boy. That makes sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

This man's busy.

SPEAKER_07 23:12

This man stays busy. He's Joy Waker. Yeah, he's got he's got Robert's Free Face.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

In the Telltale game, he plays both Batman and Thomas Wayne.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

God, that's he's he's just a whole fucking Batman cartoon by himself. Good for him.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

That that that that's the kind of skill set that lets you get a show on Adult Swim.

SPEAKER_04 23:32

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

God, the Arkham games were so weird, you speaking of Troy Baker really quick because in the game where Robin appears, and I are thinking he's in is he in City? But when he's in night, um it's he's Tim Drake. Yeah and he's dating Barbara.

SPEAKER_06 23:51

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Well, it's because Batman's dead in that one or whatever, so like it can happen.

SPEAKER_07 23:57

No, normally it's normally Dick Grayson who dates Barbara. Oh, I see. Which is the even funnier. They're just like, anybody can date Barbara, it's fine. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_06 24:10

Alright. I'm finished on the last part of this taco. And then I can make the talk normal.

SPEAKER_07 24:15

Um I think that's it though. In terms of uh important Batman book reporting things, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_07 24:29

Uh oh! No, that's it. Okay. Um, and then the other and see, I got it in under 30 minutes. I did great this time. I wanted to bang those out as fast as possible. Poor Saturn doesn't know what the fuck I'm talking about. I appreciate you sitting through it though.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Much like when I listen to a podcast like We Hate Movies or something, where it's just like three guys talking about a movie I've never seen. I mostly just enjoy listening to you talk, so it's fine.

SPEAKER_08 24:57

Thanks. Saturn.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Um Saturn is having Saturn's having the opposite experien of experience of when you listen to a podcast and have a parasocial relationship. Or like you know the obscure trivia that they're floundering on.

SPEAKER_06 25:10

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

This is the first traditionally recorded podcast with it with an on-air live audience.

SPEAKER_03 25:17

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 25:20

Um, so, but other than Batman, the only other thing I've done is um I started re-watching the X-Files.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 25:32

Um, and this may shock you, but the X-Files is good. It's still good. Um it's I literally was sitting in, I was watching an episode and I loved it, of course. I'm watching this episode though, and Googling frantically on my phone. Did David DeCovney and Gillian Anderson ever fuck during the recording of X-Files? Because their chemistry is instantaneous and fucking crackling, y'all.

SPEAKER_03 26:05

Um, they didn't.

SPEAKER_07 26:09

Apparently, they didn't for a couple of years they didn't actually get along very well. David DeCovity blames himself because he kind of was just an asshole.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Um that's professionalism.

SPEAKER_07 26:18

That's crazy considering Nana Visitor and Alexander Sadiq absolutely fucked, and they had great chemistry too, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:25

That's like Mythbusters level. Yeah. Like TV professionalism of having that kind of on-screen chemistry with someone and just like not like no, we're not we don't fuck, we're not even really friends.

SPEAKER_07 26:36

No, they're friends now, you know. Yeah. They are they are but and like toward the end of X-Files, they they got along much better, but David DeCovney, I mean, he blames himself. He says he was just kind of an asshole in the first handful of seasons of the X-Files, right? You know, but their chemistry is crazy. No wonder this show drove everybody bug fuck crazy in the 90s because everybody wanted to see these two characters fuck. Um like there's so much of it, and it's it I mean, I'm on episode five of season one, and Scully is already functionally like I would die for Fox Mulder, even though I think he's kind of a crank, and you're like, okay, girl, good for you.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Um sometimes that's all it's sometimes that's all a TV show needs. I mean, like apothecary diaries has basically been coasting off that for like two seasons now.

SPEAKER_07 27:27

Uh there's functionally no difference between apothecary diary. What if Ginchi was Mao Mau is the pitch for uh the X-Files?

SPEAKER_01 27:39

Now I'm just imagining Ginshi is Mau Mau as like this kind of like guy who is a sort of like anti-social uh Doctor House MD apothecary type. And then Mau Mau is just the the princess who's like, I'm I'm just trying not to be here right now. But who's who's this very beautiful tall man skulking around my grounds? I think I will follow him and watch him do things like some sort of lab rack.

SPEAKER_07 28:05

I would, I would watch that anime too. Um but you can in fact replicate the feeling of it by simply watching 1993's excellent show, uh, The X-Files by Chris Carter. Um that show's good. There was a moment in one episode where they were talking about a serial killer who strikes every 30 years, and Scully says, Well, if we don't get him now, well, Mulder says, if we don't catch him now, then we have to wait until, and he kind of has to do the math. And Scully goes, 2023, and I go, um, so you know, I feel old. I love watching that show though. Uh, we used to be a real country. We used to have TV shows that were 26 episodes a season, and they were all immaculately lit. Um and and just gorgeous and full of practical effects and occasionally really bad CGI, but don't worry about it, it's fine. Um and I I really enjoy it. It's a thing I don't, I'm not like binging, I'm just kind of like every now and then I'll sit down, I'll watch an episode of The Exiles. Um but it is really fun to just re-watch and appreciate how attractive Gillian Anderson and David DeCovny were back in the 90s and how they've gotten, frankly, way hotter as they've gotten older, which is just absurd. Um great, great, great show. Not like a thing that I'm like, you really need it's not Star Trek where I'm like you really need to watch the X-Files, but like you can't go wrong with the X-Files either. Um it's just fun. There was I mean, like, it's a 30-year-old syndicated TV show, and there was an there was a moment in an episode that genuinely had me like screaming because it scared me. Right? Like I haven't watched that show since I was a kid. By the way, the the intro to the very famous intro to the X-Files used to scare the shit out of me.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

Um I could see that.

SPEAKER_07 30:09

It's very and I mean even to this day, it's still kind of eerie, um, even though it's mostly stock footage and like pictures of of Mulder and Scully's FBI badges. But like it used to scare the hell out of me. And there's a moment in one of the episodes, actually about the serial killer who strikes every 30 years, where like they're in like a dark basement and Scully goes, Oh god, and Mulder, what happened? And she says, Oh, I just I just got my clothes caught on something. And she walks out of frame, and there's a hand that's come down from the ceiling and is holding Scully's like cross necklace that she always wears, right? And it's so like it's just so like boom, it just happens. You're like, ah, it's really it's it's great, it's so good. Um I love I love 90s TV. I really could just become a returver and shithead, but for 90s syndicated television.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

This is what they took from you.

SPEAKER_07 31:10

This is what they took from you. They took they took all of this goodness and they replaced it. And I know this sounds odd because X-Files is a show about the FBI, but the X-Files is not a cop show, okay?

SPEAKER_02 31:25

It's about as much a cop show as Colombo is a cop show.

SPEAKER_07 31:28

Exactly. It's about it's about spooky shit. Yes, they are FBI agents, but the FBI agents part is only there to justify why they're going to like fucking Idaho to solve mysteries, right? And to interact with government spooks. You know what I mean? Um their being FBI agents actually does not afford them many benefits at all because, of course, they are just lowly FBI agents in the face of you know massive government conspiracies about aliens and whatnot, of course. Um so they took the X-File. Oh, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

The alternative is that you have people watching the show in season two, like, yo, why is all alien activity in the world happen in Boston?

SPEAKER_07 32:08

Exactly. No, by having them be FBI agents, you can go to the whole country. Then that that's that's basically why, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:15

And you can say it's a different place even if you're still filming in Toronto.

SPEAKER_07 32:19

Even if you're almost certainly filming exclusively in uh Los Angeles, as far as I can tell.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Yeah, it's Los Angeles is a big city. There's a lot of it that looks a lot of different ways.

SPEAKER_07 32:29

Yeah, exactly. They're like, no, we're definitely in New Jersey, and it's absolutely the Jersey Death. And I'm like, no, it's not. No, it's not. That's not New Jersey. Don't lie to me. Um but no, they they all TV shows now is cop shows and doctor shows.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

And yeah.

SPEAKER_07 32:50

And we could you could have the X-Files. They're doing an X-Files reboot, and it's gonna be fucking interminable. Um, I'm gonna hate it, just on principle.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

You know what's you know what's annoying? Because I I saw someone mention this recently, and it's an idea that I've had too. Speaking of only cop shows and and and doctor shows, why isn't there a Starfleet medical drama?

SPEAKER_01 33:12

God. Uh, because a Star Trek show is more expensive to produce than just having people in like vague. Like, the thing is about cop dramas and and medical dramas, aside from just being like people love a procedural because it's just a great way to present, like, here's an episode you can eat on its own, but it also ties into an A-plot that goes throughout the whole season. Sure. Right? It's a really can it's a really easy way to write a show.

SPEAKER_03 33:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

The other thing is that because it is set in modern times with stuff that you can find around, it's really cheap to make those shows.

SPEAKER_07 33:43

Fuck, yes. No, absolutely. We could, if they were willing to make a Star Trek the way they made Star Trek in the 90s, you could have a Star Trek medical procedural. Um, but they're not willing to do that. So Okay, here's my pitch.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

Here's my pitch, alright? You have a Star Trek medical procedure procedural. Um, your medical investigator is not actually a licensed Starfleet medic, though. She's like a stowaway who's passing off as one. And there's this Vulcan prince who's like kind of curious about what's going on with her.

SPEAKER_08 34:17

Interesting, I see.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

I feel like I feel like you could get a clean nine seasons out of that. Just off the will they won't they. Apparently, apparently, his Vulcan hog is uh prodigiously sized.

SPEAKER_04 34:33

Yeah, of course. It's a good pawn far. No, I think it sounds great.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

I think that's a problem, is you have it's a will they won't they because you have to wait a couple seasons for him to get in the moon once.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

You gotta wait seven years.

SPEAKER_07 34:44

Or fucking pawn far, yeah, absolutely. Um I do, I do like, by the way, sitting here listening to us talk about fucking pawn far and the X-files and Batman comics. I'm like, wow, we've really evolved into just like that kind of like those kind of fucking nerds in our 30s, huh?

SPEAKER_01 35:05

We we just star Trek Mau Mau, like, damn, call this call this the Delta Quadrant the way it's gonna take me seven years to find the right way to his dick.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

Yeah, God, I'm sorry, Sarah. We have just become clerks.

SPEAKER_07 35:24

I'm sorry. It it's all my fault because I decided to get way too invested in fucking fat man.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

We're about 70,000 light years away from our first kiss.

SPEAKER_07 35:35

That's about how far it is with Mao Mao and Jinshi. Yeah. Um I think that's it though. I don't think I have anything noteworthy otherwise. I mean, I've just been fucking around playing Final Fantasy XIV. I mean, my right, I have not been playing many things lately, but I have been reading and watching a lot of things. So um it's fine. Hey Peanut, don't beg. You're not getting for one, all the taco is gone. And for two, even if I had taco left, you wouldn't get any. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

I I love apothecary diaries, but that is certainly a show where Jinshi gets down on one knee and goes, Mau Mau, I want you to marry me. And Mau Mau looks at the ring and goes, a partnership. I see. He wants to embark upon a business venture.

SPEAKER_07 36:23

One piece ass pacing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Um I think that's it though. I think that's all I've got. If I recall anything else, I will almost certainly interrupt one of you, and I apologize in advance.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

Uh, Saturn, do you want to go next? Because I have the final Voyager book report.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Yeah, I'll go next. I didn't do fuck I didn't do fuck all.

SPEAKER_07 36:41

Uh Saturn's Saturn's writing things, being busy with it.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

Oh, I'm being I'm trying to write things, mostly being busy with work and going, uh, I'm gonna write something, and then I'm just so tired and like want to be dead that I just sort of look at a blank page for a couple hours and then close the page and then go to bed.

SPEAKER_07 36:57

Rest in peace. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

Yeah. I've been drawing things for uh Big Gay Nerd's uh next campaign that you're not allowed to see any of yet, but you know, you might be able to guess what that is if you've looked at my blue sky uh in the last couple months.

SPEAKER_07 37:11

Yeah, I'm excited.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

Yay.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

Well then the end of Voyager Final Voyager book report.

SPEAKER_07 37:22

Where do you want to start?

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Uh where did I leave off? Um it was kind of sporadic. I had a I had a couple, I had like a the last back half of season seven. Um I did I talked about the void. I didn't talk about workforce. Workforce was really fun.

SPEAKER_07 37:40

I really liked workforce, that's one of my favorites, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

Yeah, uh, that is a really fun two-partner where they are uh stuck on a planet, they have been brainwashed, um, to thinking they're just obedient factory workers. Uh really fun dynamic. I really like uh Janeway having a husband and then being like, Well, you could come with us if you want, and he's like, fuck that.

SPEAKER_07 38:11

Yeah, it's brutal because like we never talked about it, but it's like in season four or five, where you realize that Jane Wade, because she technically has a fiance waiting for her on Earth, yeah, she can never get dicked down, right? And like she deserves it, of course. Of course, and so you're like, I need this, I need this relationship to end so Jane Way can get some. But then it does happen, you're like, no, no, I didn't mean it. I didn't want to see my girl get dumped on TV. Are you fucking kidding me?

SPEAKER_01 38:45

And he gets to keep the dog. Yeah, he gets to keep the dog. Fucked up. Anyway, I'm happy I'm happy for her that she can get dicked down however she wants now and not feel bad about it, but also like, you know.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

Uh it's a shame her holodeck husband like never came back.

SPEAKER_07 38:59

No, he only gets like two episodes. It's so sad. Um, she deserved that, but I mean But it does mean that Janeway can now get laid in the back half of Voyager, which she deserves. She knows a harder job than Catherine Janeway.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

Speaking of that, she could have gotten some from Q.

SPEAKER_07 39:21

Oh to Fumble Q.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

Q2 is fantastic.

SPEAKER_07 39:26

Great episode. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 39:28

Q goes out on a high note, one of the best, if not the best, Q episodes.

SPEAKER_07 39:33

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

Um he comes back to play Emmett Silk in Final Fantasy XIV.

SPEAKER_07 39:41

It ends on him making Janeway babysit his shithead son. Um, I need about 40,000 Q and Janeway fanfiction. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 39:51

Please, please.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

Uh great, you know, Q is bad enough as it is, but having Q when he's like 14 is just like the the worst.

SPEAKER_07 40:05

Insufferable little baby child, but we love him.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

Damien Wayne core.

SPEAKER_07 40:12

Yeah, literally. Absolutely. Those are basically those are functionally the same character. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:18

Um, author author was fun.

SPEAKER_08 40:20

Which one is that one?

SPEAKER_02 40:22

Where the doctor writes a hollow novel based on that it's definitely not about Voyager.

SPEAKER_08 40:27

Yes, I love that one.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

Ain't that the Tagashi manga?

SPEAKER_08 40:33

Author ex-author. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

Um friendship one. I really liked Friendship One, which was uh The Gang Goes to Threads. The old 70s uh post-apocalyptic uh movie, Threads.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

Oh, I I'm sorry, I thought I thought for a second you meant the uh meta-owned uh dead-end social media platform. No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

I'm talking about that old that old that old British uh uh post-nuclear apocalypse story. Yeah. Uh where they go to where uh Starf or the Earth before Starfleet sent out a probe uh with instructions on how to make antimatter and accidentally blew up a planet.

SPEAKER_07 41:17

Whoops. Oops. Oops. Oopsie, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

So the ensign, Joe Carey, in that episode, the one who gets killed, they forgot he was alive. Because he has a lot of appearances in season one. And they forgot they didn't kill him.

SPEAKER_07 41:39

That's so funny.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Uh you know, it you spend a long time out in the voyage in the in the in the Delta Quadrant and the timelines just kind of shake.

SPEAKER_07 41:48

They get a little fucky, yeah. Don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

This is the episode where uh something finally clicked with me, which is if you see uh an ensign or anyone who is not the main uh senior staff, uh, and they talk, they will probably not make it to the end of the episode.

SPEAKER_07 42:09

Well, yeah, of course. That's they would say they used to be red shirt, but not anymore.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

But be because of the uh the rule of extras, which means which is that if you have a lineup dialogue, they have to pay you more.

SPEAKER_08 42:18

Exactly. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

And that's why Morn never says a word.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 42:22

Brutal. Brutal.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

What do you mean? What do you mean? Morn talks all the time.

SPEAKER_01 42:25

Oh, yeah, but like off camera.

SPEAKER_08 42:27

It's true. He never seen it.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

He respects SAGAFTRA, you know. He's he's he's he's mummin' up once uh once the cameras swing over his way.

SPEAKER_02 42:35

Uh the final funny episode of Natural Law.

SPEAKER_07 42:42

Which is I don't know if an episode names remember.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

Tom Paris gets a speeding ticket.

SPEAKER_07 42:47

Great, love that one. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 42:49

The B plot being way better than the A plot, which is Chicote and Seven crash on a planet full of uh primitive aliens. Again.

SPEAKER_07 42:58

Again, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

There's all there's only so many storylines you can do in Star Trek.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

I think 90% of Chicote's episodes are Chicote lands on a planet full of primitive aliens.

SPEAKER_07 43:10

Because he's the Native American guy.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Yeah, their fraudulent advisor said that that was the only appropriate storyline.

SPEAKER_07 43:18

It's so brutal.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

The Eastern European guy claiming to be Native American is the one who suggested that.

SPEAKER_07 43:25

Uh, how do you guys feel about that absolutely miserable final uh pairing for seven of nine?

SPEAKER_02 43:31

They picked the worst person on the crew to pair up seven with.

unknown 43:37

It's incredible!

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Like there is a picture of those two as the entire de dictionary definition for comp he.

SPEAKER_02 43:45

Yes. Like, I like if you made a tier list of everyone on Voyager that you could pair seven of nine with, it's indisputable that Chicote would be at the bottom.

SPEAKER_07 43:57

They've literally since.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

joins in season fucking four they barely interact like yeah like they don't they don't have anything they have no meaningful interactions whatsoever fucking fucking Neelix yes because they're raising Samantha's uh daughter the Naomi Wildman be even though Samantha's still alive I'm going to improve the the end of of Voyager uh seven of nine also leaves uh when Neelix leaves because they are in love and they are going to start a family together I literally think that is still a better ending.

SPEAKER_02 44:36

Would have been better.

SPEAKER_07 44:38

Like that would have infuriated me make no mistake.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

Yeah it would have been bad but it still would be better than the in the the the last five episodes episode they're like no Chicote and seven of nine or something uh the only the only thing Chakote should fuck is off of uh like bar non like m like lowest value crew member in the entirety of Voyager's probably the entirety of 90s Star Trek I think Chicote might I think Chicote might literally be at the bottom right yeah like I like I f I find it hard to say this because I I have to stress I am the person who barely remembers anything about TNG and generally just doesn't like think I I think the show is okay except for like a couple episodes that are good. Right. I think I would actually literally replace Chicote with literally anyone from the Enterprise if I was if I were to make yeah like I say if I were to make a list of all my all the characters in order of for both TNG DS9 and Voyager Chicote would be at the bottom.

SPEAKER_07 45:49

I literally think he's probably my least favorite character in the entire series like I would put Diana above him oh god yeah like I would put Crusher I would put Wesley above him yeah I think so because Wesley still because like the thing is I don't think Shakote has a single good episode in the entire adventure because like Wesley has speaking of Wesley has the the episode that introduces not Tom Paris right yeah and that episode is good.

SPEAKER_02 46:20

That episode's fantastic that's a great episode of Star Trek putting putting a character like you know like Wesley like in a situation where he's undeniably in the wrong and has to confront like a horrible mistake that he's done.

SPEAKER_07 46:33

Absolutely that's that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

I I have a thought experiment before we continue. Yes uh thought experiment is this you get you take Star Trek Voyager you're not allowed to change the premise of the show at all or the uh characters roles or what the general plot lines of episodes are though obviously you can massage things to fit the uh thought experiment happening here who is the funniest existing Star Trek crew member to fully replace Chicote with and change nothing in the rest of the show the funniest or the best uh I will accept both.

SPEAKER_07 47:08

Ooh those are two completely different answers.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

Well Rolaren is fuck yeah because I got see here's the thing A you get more Rolarin yeah B uh lesbians with uh with seven of nine at the end of the show lesbian tension between uh and also between uh Janeway because Chicote has his like his his fucking uh Janeway's like wet mop of a night right so you true and and and when and when you get an episode where it where she starts talking about spirit animals you remember it's the 90s and it's just sort of like a quirky white woman thing she can also just be yeah she could just be Bajoran religiously talking about the prophets and stuff instead yeah that's a significantly better choice Rolarin is really good um god who would who would be a better choice than Chicote probably anybody um who would I prefer to see other than Chicote the thing is he's such a nothing character like anybody it's every it's everyone everyone I think if Wharf wasn't being busy being so much better in Deep Space Nine Worf would be great on Voyager but he's so much better in Deep Space Nine I can't but here's the thing like Chicote is basically desaturated Wharf. Exactly it's true yeah yeah but he's he's bleached Wharf a little bit I think for me I don't I think Roll Erin is the best I think Ben's right I think Roll Aaron would be the best pick. Funniest pick um I think we should envision a Voyager where Chicote is completely replaced by Lieutenant Barkley that's actually really good. The first officer should be a really unlikable kind of creep.

SPEAKER_07 48:55

Yeah no that's a really good choice yeah no that would be funny. There's so many I mean anybody is better like anybody you know like even fucking like poor Jordy LaForge does not get a lot of play because again it's the 90s and they don't know what to do with black characters half the time um but like Jordy is a better pick. Yeah right like Jordi any any given plot line with Chicote could probably be improved if it was Jordy LaForge right I think I said it I think I said it a couple episodes ago but like honestly switch Tuvok and Chicote's roles.

SPEAKER_02 49:32

Yeah let Chicote be head of security let Tuvok be the first officer that's what it should have been because it's a way better combination.

SPEAKER_01 49:37

That's a way better combination because then because one Tuvok is an interesting character on his own so he can carry like the burden of being the first officer and like not having a lot else going on because he's Vulcan and he's interesting and he's got like his little hangups and all that stuff so he can take all of the stuff that Chicote does and make it more interesting just by virtue of being Tuvok right yeah and then also I think like if he has that romantic tension with Janeway still and then gets the last minute swing to by the way it's it's 7 or 9 you're like you're right I can kind of see it Tuvok's Tuvok's kind of got some swag he's alright.

SPEAKER_02 50:13

Sure that's that makes sense even though like Tuvok's married and he would never like you know cheat on his wife but they're still like there's still more interesting there's food you could have a really interesting episode a really funny bit where it's Tuvok and seven being like seven be like I have feelings for you Duvak goes that is inconvenient. Yes I agree we should discuss this and then they just sit silently and talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 50:33

Yeah see but in in this in this configuration because Tuvok has taken uh Chicote's place it means that Tuvok was actually in the Maquis and he has uh he he has been he's been divorced uh due to up well that's actually really interesting though you're right that's the thing is that you make like Tuvok being divorced and an actual like believer in the Maquis despite being Vulcan and Chicote's the fucking fed and Chicote is the fucking fed and even though Chicote as a character is not very interesting at all he still gets to do interesting things by virtue of being the security officer right he gets to do all the action hero shit. You know yeah and then he gets fused with Neelux for a little while there.

SPEAKER_07 51:14

Yeah oh should Chicotix oh good damn my favorite breakfast cereal yeah just it's just checks it's just checks yeah that's still a a massive improvement yeah just by swapping those two characters because both of them are given because like Tubak is really interesting just as a security officer of course because he's again he's Vulcan and Vulcans are interesting. But I like that a lot because first officers half the time are just co-security officer.

SPEAKER_00 51:44

Right you know so Tubak still gets to be cool right so yeah I'm also the security officer but I don't have to do any of the hard work and I get paid more than you I get a nice I get a nicer uh I get nicer quarters than you Chicote.

SPEAKER_01 51:58

Um yeah that's better pretty much exclusive good job yeah yeah yeah so um um it's interminable I I can't stand Chicote in seven of nine it's terrible it's terrible it fucking okay so I'm gonna get through the rest of these real quick homestead I did not expect to care this much that Neelix was leaving's listening I actually got a little misty eyed Neelix is good I hate it because trust me nobody's more annoyed by it than me the secret the secret finally revealed that Neelix is in fact not Snarf from the Thundercats but is Ed from Cowboy Bebop.

SPEAKER_07 52:37

Yeah you're right funny orange hair leaves before the end of the show yeah um and then yeah the the finale the finale I love the finale okay I like the finale too I like it a lot this isn't what happened but what feels like happened is that they were promised four more episodes than they got I am a little sad I will say I am a little sad there's no follow-up it just shows them getting home and the episode is over but that's literally the premise of the first five minutes of the episode but it's not the same because it's them in the future and it's it's a it's the wrong timeline. I know but still so it it doesn't it doesn't count it doesn't count and I would have liked more follow-up but I still think otherwise it's fine listen it's because the hook the reason I like the finale just to get this now that I can finally talk about it because we've been sitting on this forever dude the reason that the finale kicks ass despite having problems is that the premise of the finale is that Catherine Janeway's greatest enemy is Catherine Janeway.

SPEAKER_01 54:00

Yeah yeah and and also and also for me the part of it that I like is that you can complain however much you want about Catherine Janeway uh flying in the face of the of the of the first uh uh the temporal prime directive the temporal prime directive or or just the prime directive in general yeah right um but the thing is Janeway was like well it's the end of the show and I gotta be true to myself so I am gonna do this whole thing and that's the only way you get the golden ending Voyager. Correct it's by Janeway being true to herself and causing problems for fun.

SPEAKER_02 54:36

Exactly I did like it it was explosive it was exciting and it was tense but there's just we didn't get closure no at all it was go home credits yeah like we didn't even fucking see them touchdown or you you you wasted like 15 minutes of this finale on Chicote and 7 of 9. You didn't need to do that.

SPEAKER_07 55:01

No one cares everybody hates Chicote and 7 of 9.

SPEAKER_01 55:05

They had to leave the door open for if they did a Voyager movie where they go uh they're on the way home but they actually got sidetracked on this adventure for a little bit before they're actually allowed to go home.

SPEAKER_02 55:17

There's there's the only way there's only there's one other big problem I have with this with this finale it's a retreading of another Voyager episode. How so the same thing happens but it's Harry who does it oh true it's they Harry and Chicote got back to got back to Earth and they're old and they're like no this sucks we're gonna go back in time and fix it. Yeah it's it's just they already did this plot line. Yeah no for sure and I was like I was halfway through and I was and I went wait a minute hey wait a second I've been here before yeah uh it was because it was it was a thing where where Harry Kim is trying to stop Janeway from going back in time and I'm like way I've been here before that's funny that's funny I didn't think about that you're right but it it was good I I enjoyed it it was good but I'm I was I was left being like it feels like they wrote a bunch more and then were told to cut it down.

SPEAKER_07 56:26

Sure totally I believe that impossible I feel like I feel like you're like I like Voyager.

SPEAKER_01 56:32

I feel like if you're the Voyager showrunner you're probably having a hard time convincing the network to let you do a three part finale.

SPEAKER_07 56:39

Right yeah which is which is what you want right you want the three parter but yeah you know the the end of Voyager I the the general hook of the finale is the thing that carries it for me which is Janeway fighting with Janeway because like at this point who could possibly be a thorn in Catherine Janeway's side but herself right old old Janeway yeah but old Janeway who knows a little bit more and is a bit more bitter and uh kind of an asshole in her own way um like that's that's the best part. To me that's the best part of the finale but that's just because like this the whole show has hinged on the fact that Kate Mulgrew has been carrying it on her fucking back for seven seasons, right? Right. Just like through through raw charisma with the occasional like assist from the Doctor and Seven of Nine you know Robert Picardo and Jerry Ryan are great too um but there's truly nobody I mean like I like the cast of Voyager um there's nobody other than like other than the Doctor 7 and Janeway who I would rank above any given character in fucking Deep Space Nine. Right for sure um so truly the whole show has been carried mostly by Kate Mulgrew's like raw charisma. So like of course the show has to end on that note of being like yeah no Janeway has to fight with herself to get her happy ending and I love that I think that's that's fantastic. Yeah 8.0 is gonna be so hard for you and you have to fight grandma Redica I know I can't wait the only person who can stop Redica is Redica and the only person who can stop Janeway is Janeway it's great.

SPEAKER_01 58:24

Sarah just getting there and unsubbing like no this is where I want the game to end.

SPEAKER_07 58:27

Yeah this is actually my golden ending goodbye. Um yeah I I have been I love the ending I love the ending of Voyager I do think it's a little rushed um that I've been waiting so long to talk to somebody about the end of Voyager just because I love the reveal yeah of of as you watch the episode that like you realize who the problem is right it's always it's always been Janeway it's always been the whole time it's always been Janeway Janeway's always been the problem and the solution to everything and uh she's she's the best she is undoubtedly my favorite Star Trek character and it's not even close. I love everybody in D Space Nine a lot but I like Katherine Janeway that much more um because she's just great. What a what a fantastic character from beginning to end. And it it rules at the finale just be like no this is about her and like it it's really the funniest part of the end of Voyager is that truly despite this ostensibly being a mission to save seven of nine it doesn't she doesn't matter. Seven of nine and chicote's like seven of nine matters but seven of nine like this is apparent like this is a like the the the actual stated mission goal is to save seven of nine in order to save Chicote from like a lifetime of loneliness which fucking disgusting yeah um but like the amount that Chicote matters in the finale despite this ostensibly being a mission for his sake is not at all not even a bit this is another another reason why I'm like they cut they had to cut stuff they had to cut like the the fucking the Chicote shit it has to be a studio mandate. It has to be a Rick Furman mandate. Right because like the same way that after after um the wire and our man bashir was you know somebody noticed that it was getting kind of gay over on D Space nine and so like there had to be like a mandate that came down and said like no we gotta hit him with a case of the not gays and like after our man bashir you get very few episodes of Bashir and uh Garrick together. Right. I feel like D Voyager got hit with the not gays too because too many people were reading uh reading lesbianism into whatever the fuck is going on between Catherine Janeway and Seven of Nine like it's it's the only like I can only because if you don't have the Chicote thing then the plot of the finale of Voyager is that Katherine Janeway goes back in time because her her uh much younger than herself situation ship died tragically and so she can't abide by that right right uh that's that's just the plot of Matoka magica without the age gap you know like yeah so what we're saying is by principle by by the transitive principle Pippa is a Janeway we brought it home now I'm sitting here like I mean kinda yeah I can see you know we can put pip we can put Janeway on the pipa and spellboard for sure for sure not to not to keep nickpicking on the finale though because I did like I did like it but it's like if I don't go back in time Seven will die and Chicote will die eventually of some unspecified thing and it's like why didn't you write it so that I have to stop because Seven will die in this Borg attack we're about to confront.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:35

Right like that's it's it's right there. It's right in front of you that's the easiest thing like like why didn't why didn't Janeway go back to the beginning of Voyager and be like hey I brought a thing that'll warp you right back. Well because then you would because then they wouldn't have seven of nine yeah and just do it right after they recruit seven of nine just like I'm gonna send you home now.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:00

Well no Janeway is in love with seven of nine she wants that whole relationship to develop because then but but then if they did that Ben then they'd have to bring Nelix back too and they really don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:08

Yeah they want to leave Nelix in the Delta Quadrant despite how much we all ended up liking Nelix we do still have to leave Neelix in the Delta Quadrant please she is like I I I she's like I could go all the way back there to where we just when we recruited 709 but I know if we bring that little orange fuck along he's gonna become like Alton Brown levels of TV popular and I just won't be able to stand it'll ruin my whole retirement.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:31

I can't abide by the idea of seeing Neelix on TV all the time.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:34

Absolutely not uh you know it's time Ben you're a time travel plot fan don't worry about it I am that's why I hate when it's like you have to you just have to take the don't worry about it stance dog you need to like the the whole point the when you when you go back in time to save someone from dying you always go back at an point.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:57

Yeah you need to go back to the moment when they die. You're right I will I will give you that it should have been Janeway goes back in time to help with this big borg attack which is the the you know focal point of the finale yeah um because that's when Seven dies and like yeah we all get home and the you know as a result of this but Seven also dies and it's like oh no we can't have that and Janeway's been you know guilty and bitter about it for 20 some odd years.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:21

They also could have made it a little bit more of a bittersweet ending because it's like yeah Seven died and Chicote died you know at some point along the travels that sucks but it's like everyone else seems to be doing pretty well everybody else seems fine yeah it did like the end of the end of more than meets the eye this is not I was I was gonna say like that's what I was thinking the whole time like this should be more like the ending of Lost Light where it's like yeah everyone is kinda doing okay they're all kind of tired and they're bored uh and they're well then that's a that's a comic and you can fit more story in there.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:03

It's true. You can hypothetically do as many pages as you want to as long as it goes to print. And the part and I will say uh and this is my uh very cynical uh reason why they didn't go back to the Borg attack uh it would have made the episode cost about $400,000 more yeah but there but there's already a Borg attack in the episode. Yeah like that's yeah but they would have had to do more of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:24

I guess I guess so but I mean like they could have you know like the intro with like the party and stuff.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:29

I I literally think it all is because of I mean like this is me being conspiratorial because I like I like Janeway and seven as uh as lesbians um I d I think it's all not gays. I think it's getting hit with the not gay ray you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:45

But I mean like they could have they could have done that and it would have been fine but but like you know fine whatever. But like you have the party in the intro right have it be like oh Tom and Balana got divorced at some point And they're estranged from their daughter, and like the doctor isn't here because he's still busy fighting for like his actual ability to like be a person, you know.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:09

I guess the problem with that is that is that saving seven of nine, like if you can't if you can't do your finale, like if you're if you're strapped for time, and you can't do your finale where like you see like a wrap-up of everybody on earth, which they you know they didn't do, um you you want to reassure that everybody is okay. I guess that's true. Except for the dead Seven of Nine and Chicote, because you want to like you like saving 7 of 9 would not fix the stuff that you're suggesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:46

Right, yeah, that's I guess that's true. Yeah. Also, like we have 90 minutes of TV and we have to waste at least four or five of them pretending anyone gives a fuck about Chicote. So we have we have to button the script up.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:57

Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:58

So but no, that was so that was it.

unknown 1:07:01

That's it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:02

Finished Voyager. There's no more, there's no more Voyager, which means There's no more 90s Trek for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:07

I was free to start lower decks.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:10

Which is good.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:10

Which is good if you skip the lower decks instead of attempting to continue the I'm not gonna fucking watch Enterprise.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:16

No, absolutely not, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:17

I I know two, I know two people who started watching Enterprise, and I'll be real, everything they have tried to uh express to me about that show and the ways in which it is secretly enjoyable, I hear it and look at it and go, man, this show must suck ass. There is some there is some Stockholm syndrome happening here.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:37

Yeah, absolutely. No, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:39

Uh, in the time it took me to finish Voyager, I managed to get through four seasons of Lower Decks.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:44

That's right.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:45

Yeah, that's about right. Sorry, dude.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:48

It's probably my second favorite Star Trek series. I fucking love the Lower Decks.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:53

It is genuinely good. It is weird how good because like the first couple episodes, you're like, okay, it's funny Star Trek, but then they just start doing Star Trek episodes.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:02

It's what it is, it's it's exactly the same reason that like season three onward Venture Brothers is so good because it's a spoof written by people who are obsessed with the thing they're doing a parody of.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:17

With the source material, absolutely. Like yeah, no, the people who write lower decks love Star Trek and they just want to, like, they just want to write their own Star Trek episodes. And like, yeah, it has it's got callback humor and stuff, but some of it's really good. So it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:34

Yeah, it's it's like a it's I feel like it's the same thing with the Orville as people have described that show to me, where it's sort of like you have this one, it's like, aha, we're doing funny parody, and the then the other showrunner's like, well, it's not like the other people making Trek are actually making real trek, so they're not gonna care if we do, right? The answer is no. They can't stop you from actually making the show that people want to watch.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:54

Like it's it's it's a parody, and they you know they do haha references to the old episodes and whatnot, but it's done with so much love and adoration.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:04

Like And more importantly than love and adoration, because love and adoration can truly only get you so far. Right. Um more importantly than that, is a genuine curiosity to do new shit with Star Trek.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:17

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:18

Um and to like tell the kind of Star Trek stories that you can only tell with an animated medium because you don't have to worry about your fucking budget in the same way. Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:28

It's lower decks is so much of them going, well, what happened after that?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:34

And then they're gonna do an episode about you know, exploring a concept that like a 90s Trek did in season one of TNG and then didn't follow up on.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:42

Yeah, because like the Ceritos, the whole the the California class, like as a ship, their whole mission is to follow up on first contact. Like that's like the hook of the Cerritos is that your job is to follow up on other crews making first contact and to see what happened and how can the Federation help you, right? Right, and so you get a lot of fun stuff just from that, and it's genuinely great. There are so many good, like just good Star Trek stories getting told in fucking lower decks.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:19

I I hear what y'all are saying about this show, right? And I don't it does, it sounds, you know, cute, I guess, but I have all this production budget, and what I think the fans really want to see is the cast of a new generation, but like 35 years later. And I think I'm going to give them a couple dozen million dollars to make that show also, in fact, more.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:43

And they're gonna put seven in it for some inexplicable reason. Um, and it's just gonna be awful.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:50

It's very funny how since this show came after Picard was made, they can afford to set up things that will have happened in Picard. Uh, like the whole bit where uh Quark has a franchise.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:05

Yeah. Uh I'm so glad for Quark. I just need him to get back together with his his uh hot Klingon wife, and then he can have his perfect life.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:16

So, Sarah, you told me a while ago that when you watch Lower Decks and they had Quark show up in the episode that you don't think that he sounded off to you.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:22

Yeah, because he doesn't have the teeth in his mouth.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:24

You're wrong.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:25

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:25

Armin Shimmerman has the teeth in his possession.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:30

Does he?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:30

And he did an interview where he's like, I'm not gonna be Quark without the teeth. Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_07 1:11:35

He just doesn't, I mean, I guess he just learned to talk around the teeth better because he still doesn't sound the same.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:40

It's also been 30 years.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:41

I mean, it's also been 30 years. But he just he just literally doesn't sound like he's like having to like talk around the teeth like dish as much, you know what I mean? Because like the like all all Ferengi sound like that because they gotta talk around them fat fucking chompers. Um, but I guess maybe he got better at it over 30 years.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:56

Fucking mom's actor didn't wear the teeth though. That much that's very clear.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:01

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:02

Uh, but like Armin Shipperman is like, oh, I'm not gonna do a cork bit without wearing the teeth. Of course I did.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:08

Armin Shipperman's so fucking real.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:10

I'm willing to bet that it just it is just the realities of booth recording that they were just able to like noise filter out a lot of things they couldn't get out of his stage mic or whatever.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:20

That makes sense, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:22

Like when, yeah, like when Tom Paris shows up and it's like he sat like everyone ever all the all the characters that are recur, you know, from previous tracks sound different because yeah, they're in a stage, they're on a recording booth now.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:34

One of the funniest things, and I I hate to it's a mild, mild, mild lower deck spoiler. Sorry, Saturn.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:41

Oh that that's okay. I but I still am I'm not making time for it anytime soon.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:45

No, yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's a Tom Paris episode, right? And there's also who's his character in the in the in the Wesley episode? I can't remember his name.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:53

Nick Locarno.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:54

Locarno, right. So there's a Tom Paris episode, but also Locarno shows back up. And literally, the funniest part of the lower decks is that Locarno sounds more like Tom Paris than Tom Paris does. Like he's just he's having so much more fun being an asshole in the lower decks than he is being just Tom Paris. It's really funny. It's really funny. Yeah, he hams it up so much as Locarno, and he just sounds so and and as a result, because like Tom Paris in fucking the lower decks, he sounds like a like a mature adult, which yeah, he would. At this point, he would be. Um as a result, he doesn't sound like he doesn't sound like Tom Paris anymore, right? Um, not the Tom we know. Right. But Locarno sucks, and as a result, he just gets to ham it up as Locarno, and you're like, damn dog, you sound more like Paris now than you ever did. Uh and it rules, he's so good. Uh fucking great show, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:01

It's it's you're already almost done. I know, it's crazy. I love the bit when when Locarno shows up and Rutherford is like, he looks a lot like Tom Paris. And Boy was like, I don't see it.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:14

I don't see it. Yeah, it's really good. Uh Rutherford Rutherford and Tendy are my babies, my fucking brother.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:20

Oh, they're so cute together.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:21

They're so good. Tendi is like the best. I mean, they're all the best. The four, the main four are uh exclusively the best, and then Shax kicks Ash.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:30

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:32

I'm just so I'm so happy. One that Shax rules. Shax is a is a jacked by the way, Shax is an extremely jacked Bajoran guy and the head of security for the Cerritos, right? Um and he fought in the Bajoran Resistance as well. So you get you get the Deep Space Nine episode, and it's just Shax and uh it's Kira just just ribbing each other constantly.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:56

They rules. The the best bit in that episode is that they are going back and forth on uh who saved who from what and how many times each of them owe their lives to the other.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:09

Yeah, it rules. It's so good. Um I really I would really I mean I could do a fucking lower decks rewatch. It'll take five minutes.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:18

It's so easy. Yeah, it's it's a season, it's it's the equivalent of one season of 90s track.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:22

Yeah, we live in our time.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:24

It's a shame that they didn't get to making that show until after his uh retirement from health stuff and then a recent passing, because I feel like you should have got Space Ghost on the lower decks.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:38

Oh he would have been great.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:42

There is just as like like you know, like you know like how all the how the Night East thing has like their their recurring holodeck guy? Yeah. Oh, that would have been great.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:54

Yeah, that's a really good casting choice. I did this Oh go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:58

I was saying, I got the episode where I mentioned it on the Discord, but there's the episode where uh they have three uh uh beta zoid diplomats on on board, and I'm like, oh, you wanted this to be Laksana.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:13

You wanted it to be Laksana Troy so badly, it makes you look stupid. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:17

But it's she had already passed by that point, but like this, like it was they wanted to do that so badly, and they knew they couldn't, so this is as close as they could get.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:26

Yeah, and then like the sadness of not having Renee Obregenois.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:31

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:32

Like, you're just like, oh come on. Yeah, it sucks, man. The uh the one bummer is, and I mean, like, it's because Star Trek Academy, which is the other, like was the other animated thing that also got canned.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:45

Not Academy of uh Prodigy, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:48

There's not a lot of Voyager references in uh uh lower decks other than the Tom Paris episode.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:54

Well there's there's also uh Tuvics.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:57

Two Vicks.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:58

Two Vicks. But like there's still not as many references because like the whole idea was that Prodigy would be the one that has all the the lower decks up or has all the Voyager references. Um but unfortunately Prodigy is a show for babies and isn't as good. So um we didn't I was really sad we never got lower decks Janeway, is what I'm saying. It's mostly what it boils down to is I wanted a lower decks Janeway, god damn it.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:25

Yeah, the the um you know TNG has has uh Riker and Deanna show up. Um and uh DS9, you know, you get you get Kira and Quark showing up, and then for Voyager, you really only get Tom Paris, and I know that um Well, there's a Harry Kim.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:48

Yeah, Harry Kim does.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:50

Kim shows up later.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:51

Character waking up like, I had a nightmare about Galactic Emperor Catherine Janeway. It's like, well, what was the nightmare about? It's like, well, she outlawed Dabbo. Oh.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:00

Well, alright.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:03

Oh god.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:05

Obviously, I love and respect the real Space Emperor Catherine Janeway.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:08

We would never say anything to to it against Space Empress Catherine Janeway, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:14

But no, the pro the thing is it's it's so good. It's just so joyous and like I don't know, they could have they could have made it like way more cynical.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:27

Yeah, cynical, and everyone is dumb and like it's an incompetent crew, and like the Federation sucks, and all of like and like only the lower decks guys are competent and like all of the commanding officers are idiots.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:41

Yeah, and like it would have been so easy because you've got guys you've got you know fucking ransom, right? Where he's just this muscle-bound jock, but like, no, he's actually a really good competent commander, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:56

Like it it would have been so easy to just have it be about how much the Federation sucks and how much like your commanding officers suck and how none of them deserve the job and all that shit. Yeah, and it would have been funny, but like really trite and what you'd expect. But no, like because lower decks likes Star Trek, right? It likes the concept of Star Trek, the lower decks is still like no, like, yeah, the Federation is flawed, but the Federation is still ultimately a net good. And the people in like the people who run the Sorritos deserve to be there. They're competent people who are curious and like smart and believe in the mission and all that shit, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:44

We we would have gotten the the hypothetically proposed uh one note, like whatever show if it were made in 2010. But luckily, this was made later, so the people in the writer's room were able to get on that zeitgeist of hey, did you know that like sincerity is like fine? It's like cool. It's cool, like and that like being overly irony poisoned is just really unpleasant and like reductive.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:07

It could have been that Boimler is this hapless, you know, incompetent, clumsy idiot. Yeah, and Mariner picks on him constantly, but instead you get that there's that one episode that's great where uh Mariner is chatting up with like this really hot ensign, and then Boimler walks up to the to the bar and she like shoves the hot ensign inside, like, it's my friend, it's my friend, he's here, yay!

SPEAKER_07 1:20:35

It's my buddy! Yeah, and like they there's like a little bit of romantic tension between Boimler and Mariner, but just like it's it's not like it's not the focus and it resolves quickly. It's like like a normal amount of romantic tension between two people getting to know each other essentially. Right. But then like, and then they move past it.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:55

And they're just they just stay really, really good, loyal friends.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:59

And then you can also get Devon and and or Tendi and Rutherford who have all the chemistry.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:03

Who have uh the most absurd amount of chemistry, and you spend the whole show going, I need them to kiss.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:10

There's the I fucking so the episode where they have to fake being a couple, I think ends. The best it could end for a show like this.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:19

It's so good.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:20

Where it's it's they have so they have they go they have to go to Ferenganar and pretend to be a couple to get a bunch of uh Starfleet discounts to tour like the local like hotspots for Ferenganar. And they have the pressure of of posing as a couple the whole time, and eventually, like when it finally breaks, they're like, Okay, good, now we can now we can go back to being uh good friends who are just really happy to spend time together. And they both crawl into like a vent to fix uh some uh some of the piping in there, yeah. And she's like on top of him.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:59

And it's like and it's not presented as romantic at all. Yeah. Even though like they're just all up in each other's personal space. It's just like this is my best friend, Rutherford, and that's it. It's it's so good. It's adorable. It's so good. It's it's the best. It's such a good show. It's a genuinely great show. I can't wait for you to get to season five.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:18

I think I think Dr. Taana might be my second favorite chief medical officer.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:27

I will I will say not familiar with the cast at all, but I'm still just thinking about the earlier uh the earlier conversation about Boymler. And although I don't I it would you'd have to strike the balance so well, but what I do think would be good as like a Star Trek mini-series would be a Star Trek where your commanding officer is textually a pastiche of like Inspector Clusseau uh and is just constantly making the wrong decisions, but it works out in the end, and so he gets to remain the boss. Just like stumbling face first into solving the unsolvable problem. Like, like figuring out the wit like solving the Koboyashi Maru not by cheating, but by accidentally finding the glitch in the simulation.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:15

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:18

Uh it's it's genuinely like I fuck, man. It's good Star Trek.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:28

It's it's genuinely good Star Trek. Yeah, it's depressing.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:32

Shaq's is so good.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:33

Shaq's is a good character. I mean, like, all of the commanding officers are really good and interesting too. And and yeah, you just you come away from the lower decks, just be like, uh, Star Trek, and then it got cancelled.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:48

I know.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:48

Oh, okay. It should still be running. God damn it.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:53

We should just still be pumping out seasons of lower decks. Like, it's not difficult.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:57

It's not hard. No, it's like the easiest thing in the world. It pisses me off.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:01

Fucking Rick and Morty can get nine series seasons, but lower decks can only get five.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:06

It's brutal. Oh god.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:09

Okay. What else did I do? I'll make this quick. I'm playing more New Vegas.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:16

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:17

Uh don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:19

Don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:20

I told you last time that I hit that hurdle or that that uh roadblock of not being able to pass a bunch of checks and a bunch of quests.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:28

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:28

Well, I cleared it. And everything just started snowballing down, and I've been making so much progress.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:34

Good for you. New Vegas still kicks ass, shocker.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:37

Um, I'm about to go and uh so I was I was going to so you know you get the quest where it's like go take the boat to uh uh Caesars Legion.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:49

Well, I failed that quest.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:52

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:52

Uh because en route to uh the the dock, uh-huh um since I would I was already like I was already like marked as hated by Caesar's Legion, uh a bunch of Legionnaires attacked me. And then I got vilified.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:11

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:12

So that quest failed.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:14

That's really funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:15

Because there's no there's no uh uh negotiating your way out of that.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:21

No, no, not at all. That's really funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:23

So I was like, well, guess we're doing this then, and then I queued up the only thing they fear is you.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:29

Yeah, and then you you bring Boone to Cottonwood Cove and you all slaughter everybody together and you have a bonding moment over how much you hate the fucking Legion. It's normal.

unknown 1:25:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:37

It's great.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:38

And and you eat Caesar's brain, so you can get a a very uh like uncommon uh feat later on.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:44

Oh, do you? Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:45

Yeah, if uh if you eat the brains of the four kings. Yes. Which is but you have to and it's the you have to go so far out of your way, okay? Because it's you have to eat Caesar's brain, yeah. You have to eat the brain of the king, yeah, you have to eat House's brain, and you have to eat the brain of the president of the NCR when he gets assassinated.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:05

So funny.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:07

And you get a v and you get like a really, a really specific uh perk if you successfully do that.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:12

That rules. Oh, New Vegas, never change.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:15

New Vegas.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:17

Um Great.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:19

Does it shock you, by the way, that I have a very specific memory of a cannibalism-specific perk that you get in New Vegas?

SPEAKER_07 1:26:25

Not even a little bit. Oh per Saturn's encyclopedic knowledge of all of the various and sundry instances of unique cannibalism interactions in any given video game. Okay, so the perk.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:38

The perk is called Meat of Champions, and it gives you a plus one luck, intelligence, charisma, and strength after eating a human corpse.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:45

That's just so funny. That rules.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:48

You are what you eat, and what I eat is the king, baby. Hey, baby! But but I also love that one because it's like there there is literally only one opportunity in the game to get the president of the NCR's brain, and if you miss it, you're gone.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:05

Yeah. That's I mean, you could do the easiest way to do it would have to be you would have to start with a Legion playthrough. Because you're supposed to kill Kimball in that playthrough, anyways.

unknown 1:27:18

Right?

SPEAKER_07 1:27:19

Yes. So you start with the Legion, so you get Kimball, then you betray the Legion and get Caesar, um, and then you betray House, you get House, uh, and you get the king whenever you want. That's easy.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:33

Right.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:33

And and then you you get kicked onto the to the yes man route because otherwise it's funny that that's like the only like that's the way you also get booted into the yes man route.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:42

Yeah. I was gonna say, I I will say, I think when I did this, uh like fucking however many years ago, like fucking 12, 13 years ago, however long it was. Uh I was on an NCR playthrough, and the thing is, uh, for Kimball, uh, you can just fail the mission to protect Kim.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:59

Oh, I guess that's. Yeah, you just let him get your die.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:02

So I was just standing there waiting for him to die, and then before his body was on the ground, I was rushing over to scoop his brains in my mouth.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:11

It owns that they still let you be in the NCR after that.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:14

In front of all the uh in front of all the uh the bodyguards and secret service and everything.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:19

The horrified soldiers and like bodyguards, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:24

Now, I don't remember if they let me be in the NCR. I think they might they could, it's possible they immediately turned hostile and I had to run away. Saturday.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:32

Um, five second rule. Is anyone gonna finish this?

SPEAKER_07 1:28:37

Uh you gonna eat that?

SPEAKER_02 1:28:41

Uh that rules. The only other thing I did, speaking of comic books, is I read Kraven's Last Hunt.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:46

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:47

I finally read that for the first time. Is it good?

SPEAKER_07 1:28:49

Everybody says it's good.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:50

So, the thing with a lot of villa a lot of superhero villains, and Spider-Man villains especially, is that there are certain villains where you can just do stories forever. The Joker, the Green Goblin, Doc Ock, you can just fucking do uh all the stories forever with that one. There are villains that you can do a couple of stories with, and then you kinda gotta put them on the path to redemption because people think they're really cool. That's your venoms, your poison ivies, you know.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:20

Sure. Your Harley's, your Jason Todd's.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:23

Just like, yeah, they're bad guys, but like everyone thinks they're so cool that you kinda gotta start doing like good guy stuff with them. Sure. Then there's villains where you get like two, three stories max, and then they gotta be done.

SPEAKER_08 1:29:36

You gotta retire them one way or another.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:38

And yeah, Craven is one of those villains. And this is not a bad thing, right? Like, really, honestly, you got about three Mr. Freeze stories before you like gotta pivot that character. Okay. Kraven is like that. He's he's gonna be hunting Spider-Man as his greatest prey, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:29:58

Like, sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:59

You can do that story maybe twice, and then he's gotta kill himself.

unknown 1:30:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:06

Or he's like Spider-Man, my greatest prey, and then a different thing just eats him in half.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:11

Absolutely. Like, Kraven's last hunt, that's where the character's logical progression ends. You can only have him hunt and fail to kill Spider-Man so many times.

SPEAKER_08 1:30:22

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:26

You've you've gotta have that where he beats Spider-Man and then goes, Welp, that's it for me, and kills himself.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:31

That rules. That's so funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:33

Kraven's last hunt fucking rules. Okay. What a great story.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:41

Good lord. It's a great way to go out for Kraven. It's a shame they brought him back.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:48

Well, many such cases, as they say.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:51

Uh, it reminded me, like the whole comic reminded me of one of my favorite bits from Spider-Man 2, the Insomniac game, where when you're doing your fight with Kraven as Black Suit Spider-Man, uh, if you fail that fight, Kraven screams out no. Because you were supposed to kill him.

SPEAKER_07 1:31:09

That owns. That's so smart. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:12

It's so good. It's like that moment alone is like, this is the best Kraven adaptation adaptation ever. Like this, you fucking got his character. So I like in that game, he's got cancer. So he's like, I need something to kill me.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:26

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:27

I can't just die of cancer. I need a like a dangerous threat, like the greatest prey out there to kill me.

SPEAKER_07 1:31:34

Yeah, of course. Because he's like a hunter character, of course. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:37

Yeah. So like if what like all this buildup and then Spider-Man fails to kill him and he and he's like devastated out of it. It's great. It's so great. Kraven is such a good character. You cannot do a lot with him.

SPEAKER_08 1:31:49

You can't do much with him after that. No. You should have retired that one, Dog. Oops.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:55

Oopsie doopsie. What's your uh favorite moment from Spider-Man to the PS2 tray art game from 2004? Uh web swinging. Uh mine is.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:05

Oh, no, no, I don't mine. Mine is when you fight Mysterio.

unknown 1:32:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:09

That's a pretty good one.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:10

Because uh, for you for you don't know Sarah, um, when you fight Mysterio, you you fight him and like it, you like stop him from committing a crime. Uh he gets a bespoke health bar that fills up like five times.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:24

You punch him once and he goes down.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:26

That oh it was all an illusion.

unknown 1:32:29

That oh smart.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:31

My favorite isn't a story moment, but my first encounter with discovering funny bugs in video games.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:37

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 1:32:39

So there's a train that goes through in Spider-Man to PS2, because it's New York. So, you know, you're at full health, you stand on the track and let the train hit you once for fun because of your you're in uh whatever grade you're in, and it's it's funny to just get hurt on purpose. And Spider-Man takes getting hit by a train exceedingly well. He only loses like half his HP bar. Sure, sure, sure. If you then, while he's still ailing, go get hit by that train a second time. Uh I don't know if it's because if there's like an integer error from it doing 99.99999% total of your HP or something and not actually killing you but rounding down or some crazy shit like that. Uh, instead of doing the thing it did the first time, which is just sort of like eject you off to the side and you take damage, uh, it shoots you straight up into the air, I want to say about 50,000 miles per hour. Hell yeah. And you're not dead yet, so you're just kind of in your splayed out hurt pose, shooting into the sky like a rock.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:41

That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:42

Awesome. Fucking love it. Anyway, that's what happens to Kraven in some issue, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:49

No, I I you can only hope.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:51

Um, speaking of that, really quickly, like I was thinking, like, you know, I'm almost done with lower decks, what am I gonna do next? You know, I thought about uh I thought about gargoyles, I thought about Samurai Jack, I thought about, you know, DCAU.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:03

Then I found that in 2021, a bunch of fans did a bunch of like 1080p upscaling of uh 90 Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:14

Ooh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:16

So I think I'm gonna watch that.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:18

Sure, that's acceptable.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:20

Yeah, I think I'm gonna give that a go. Um I can breeze through that because it's you want 22-minute episodes, and they're that'll be over in no time. There's like 60 of them total, but like that's not gonna take me that long. So I think I'm gonna do that and give that a go.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:34

Sure. That's a perfectly fine pursuit, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:37

Yeah, I need Spider-Man content. That's actually good because it's not happening anytime soon.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:43

It's happening right now. Sorry, Basty.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:47

Before we like pivot to the stuff we do after this, yeah. Uh since you're bringing up the possibility, can I I just need to get this off my chest so I don't do it. But like the dark passenger that has been possessing me instead of like possibly catching up on any of the stuff that I'm supposed to be watching.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:04

Yeah. Recently I remembered inexplicably. Now, I don't know if either if I I don't I doubt either of you read this because this is uh this was young adult fiction, like when I was reading young adult fiction, which means it would have been uh, you know, under it would have, it would have been before you, you would have been aged out of that bracket.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:22

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:23

But there was a young adult fantasy series when I was in like uh I don't know, like elementary middle, something like that. Uh it was called Del Torah Quest. And it was and it went a lot, and it ended up going a lot longer because it was popular and they had spin-offs or whatever. But the the original thing was like a seven or eight part young adult fantasy novel series. It's basically like I got taken to the strange fantasy world, and I have to collect these magic gemstones to reunite the kingdom and save it from the dark evil guy or whatever. And I have no idea why I remembered this, but I remembered that like in 2009 there was a Japan-only like 50-something episode long adaptation of the Del Torah quest books as an anime. Really? Really? Yeah, and I just had that moment of like, I'm I need to hunt them down. I might be the only human being alive who ever watches it.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:18

I literally think you might be, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:21

Okay, you know what? I'm gonna be I'm gonna be honest. You know?

SPEAKER_01 1:36:25

I kind of fuck with these designs. It's a pretty good looking anime for like two like mid-aughts or whatever. That looks that looks scrappy and fun. And that's like relatively true to like what my uh youth imagination of what those characters approximately looked like is based on the way they're described, too, so that's applause.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:44

This is very It's very timely. You know, it looks exactly like it belongs to the era that it came from, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:54

2007 to 2008, 65 episodes.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:58

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:59

That is a full adaptation of a full adaptation of some fucking Western young adult fantasy novel that I'm confident that like I'm confident no one has ever read except me, despite the fact that they made like like 20 of those fucking books because they were actually popular. But also nobody but me has ever read.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:18

That's crazy. I mean, good for them.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:21

She's the writer has been making books since 2016. I mean, more I'm you know for good for her.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:28

Delta quest or the anime scripture. The author. Before that.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:32

Oh no, I mean, I mean, like the author has been making books like as recently as that. Like she's created in 2000, and then she's been still doing books as old as 10 years ago. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:42

God love her, she's nearly 80 years old.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:44

Wow, good for her.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:45

Oh, I see. She's Australian, so she has geographic proximity. I see, I see. I remember those books being pretty good. Uh, I mean, they're young adult fantasy, so uh I'm a little fascinated by this anime now, yeah. Yeah, yeah, and so I had I remembered that just literally apropos of nothing, and have found myself possessed by this dark urge to watch like 65 episodes of a young adult fantasy anime from the from the mid-aughts for no particular reason. Let me know if it's good. I'll let you know if I remember this dark passenger within me and indulge it.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:23

Uh news! Yes, please.

SPEAKER_07 1:38:27

Please.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:28

Nintendo announces new Star Fox for Switch 2 in surprise Nintendo Direct.

SPEAKER_07 1:38:33

I have a new is it a new Star Fox or is it Star Fox 64? It is a new Star Fox!

SPEAKER_02 1:38:39

Star Fox. Let me see it.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:42

Let me see it. It's a new Star Fox 64. It's just Star Fox 64.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:46

It's just Star Fox 64 again.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:47

It's just Star Fox.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:48

It's it's it's like I posted though, where it's like, okay, yes, I get it. You're all disappointed by the Star Fox 64 reveal. I'm not fucking love Star Fox 64.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:57

I I won't love when they charge you $80 for it.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:59

They said it's already good, they already said it's gonna be like $50.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:03

I mean, don't get me wrong, it's good looking, but uh, I'm I'm still, even if I had a Switch 2, I'm kind of like, I'm not buying a Nintendo 64 game for $50. I'm sorry. It literally takes like the game's not that hard and it takes like 90 minutes to finish. I'm sorry. It's just it's just not it's just not happening.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:19

Yeah, no. I uh I respect the people who are excited for it, but I am just like, nah, I'm good. But I was never a Star Fox person anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:27

So uh shout outs to that redesign of Kat. I love Scrum Cat. Uh I I I think that the most accurate uh summation I can I can uh report of the glow-up that I saw that is accurate is girls who poop versus bitches who shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:41

Like the thing is the thing is Kat's redesign now looks like someone that Falco used to date.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:49

Absolutely. She looks like a Star Fox character instead of like a c instead of like this is a character we made up for the 80s cartoon who shows up for one episode and her personality is that she's a girl.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:00

Yeah, like I saw someone be like, this is like like original cat's design is like what a 12-year-old thinks like a seductive character looks like. And then the new cat looks like someone who uh shows up on the Great Fox, puts Falco in a headlock, and demands that he pays for the first round.

unknown 1:40:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:19

Uh good.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:20

I'm fucking excited. I love Star Fox 64 so goddamn much.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:24

Oh yeah, and don't get me wrong, I'm confident that is going to be a good game. It's Star Fox 64.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:29

Yeah. It's kind of hard to fuck up.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:31

It's just very funny that they I I think the reason they keep going back to the Well of 64 is because Command fucking sucked and they don't want to go to that point in the timeline.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:41

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:42

Command is- I mean, even irrespective of timeline, I think they just keep going back to Star Fox 64 the game, because every time they're like, okay, guys, what about this? Everyone's like, I don't know, man. It's like fine, I guess. And they're like, okay, but what if it was Star Fox 64? And they're like, Star Fox 64 is pretty good.

SPEAKER_07 1:40:57

Everybody likes Star Fox 64.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:59

The thing is, like, the closest to 64 is assault, and even a s everyone who plays assault is like, yeah, it's fine.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:05

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:06

The on foot segments kind of suck, but like it's fine. Like, what are you gonna do? Make the one with fucking crystal in it? No, just like run around Dinosaur Planet. Yeah, they're not gonna do Adventure again.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:16

No, fuck that. No.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:17

They should remake Adventure though and make it like a really good instead of bad.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:21

Yeah, well, like make it like a real Star Fox game instead of like a Star Fox themed like collect a thon. That would be cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:28

Uh, but no, I'm uh the funniest thing about this direct is that they announce it like 15 minutes before it aired.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:34

Yeah, that was that was that was very jarring. They're really they're doing experiments and in how the how hard their fans are at their beck and call, and the answer is very. And then they're like, and when does the game come out? June.

SPEAKER_07 1:41:47

It's just around the corner. Yeah, we don't care.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:50

What pisses me off is that despite my uh OLED-only purism, uh, they did go like, by the way, not only are we increasing the price of the Switch in September, uh, but in June, we are going to be updating the Mario Kart World bundle to be you can pick one of three games and they're Mario Kart World and I think ZA or a Kirby Air Writers ZA and uh Pocopia. And I'm like, I don't know, man, $500 for a Switch 2 in Pocopia, if it even if it's not an OLED screen, there's a fucking chance I might. That's pretty good. I'm literally stupid. I might do it.

SPEAKER_07 1:42:26

It's not bad, I'll tell you. Um, I mean, considering they're raising the price on the Switch, the Switch 2, I mean, like, that OLED version would be so fucking expensive.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:37

Yeah, that OLED version is gonna be costly, is the thing.

SPEAKER_07 1:42:39

Yeah, you're gonna put it on the show. I think the thing that's gonna make eight, nine hundred dollars for a Switch 2.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:44

I think the thing that that moved me over to be like, if I really care about Switch 2, we'll probably just have to get a stock model, is like, because I was like sort of like, well, what is the the in and out on them doing an OLED thing? And someone did point out the thing that makes sense to me is like you're going to be waiting a while, not because like the part shortage or this, that, or the other, uh, because literally no one is making OLED screens in the Switch 2 spec period.

SPEAKER_08 1:43:08

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:08

Yeah. Like for Switch for Switch 1 OLED, you could get an OLED screen in that size and resolution and with those capabilities. But Switch 2 is it's the 4, that's the, you know, the 4K or whatever screen, the or actually no, it's not 4K, but it's like 2K. Yeah. Uh and the variable refresh rate and the HDR and whatever in that size. And there's like literally no one is making that screen.

SPEAKER_08 1:43:30

Yeah, you're gonna be waiting for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:31

You you would have to Nintendo would have to get a company to start making those, so it's going to take a long time.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:36

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:37

I'm like, well, fuck.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:39

Yeah. Yeah, you're either gonna you're gonna wait a long time and it's also gonna be very expensive.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:45

Uh my my self-limiter that I'll put to to to keep myself uh honest with my financials is uh only if it's in stock on at Best Buy where I can put it on my credit card of 0% APR for 12 months or whatever. Absolutely. Uh because I will pay for that over the span of a year instead of all at once. That's right. I'm not I'm not dropping $500 on Switch for no reason. Right. But if I cheat, if I pretend that it's like $40 a month for a vague like the time, but it's like it's basically free.

SPEAKER_07 1:44:15

It's basically no money at all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:44:18

That's how credit works, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:44:20

That's probably how I've been thinking about my new computer that I got for myself in December, right? As they announced that all the prices for everything were going to go up. Which is like, well, I'll pay it off over the course of a year and I won't have to think about it too hard.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:35

What else we got? Next. Neverness to Everness, accused of replacing Gen IA art with different Gen I art.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:44

That's right.

SPEAKER_07 1:44:44

Yeah. Uh very I mean they didn't put effort in the first time.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:47

Why was you trying to put it in the second? It's a fucking gotcha game.

SPEAKER_07 1:44:50

Yeah, it's a it's a fucking uh Genshin Impact knockoff gotcha game. They're not gonna put any effort into that. Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:57

Like so apparently literally, like, literally, I've played here's the thing. I've played a lot of Genshin Impact copies uh because I do feel like for me personally, the the model of the hey, it's an open world game where you have simplified 3D combat with like a JRPG party is more compelling than like a lot of other gotchas. The thing is, um, even if your Genshin the only one I've played that puts literally any amount of creative effort in more than zero is Endfield. Yeah, um every single other one is produced as cheaply as humanly possible.

SPEAKER_07 1:45:28

Yeah, and they're all slop, right? They're all as cheap as possible. So of course they're like just using literal slop at this point, of course.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:45:35

So fucking whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:37

And even frankly, frankly, I've had I have my suspicions about certain artists that's an Enfield, but like you know, uh unfortunately, we are at a point now in the 20s in the late 2020s. Uh if you were if you are playing a gotcha that isn't literally all 2D art. Like if you're not, if it's not Arknights, if it's not FGO, if it's not like Limbus or whatever, if you're playing a 3D gotcha, it is characters are being designed with gen AI, and then they're being like turned into concept art by people who clean up, who clean it up after or whatever. Like that is the state we are at. That is explicit, like Mihoyo has been very explicit that they are doing that for all of their major stuff, like Zenless and Zero and Hawkeye Star Rail and shit. And so it's like uh either you swear off, which I've done for everything that is an end field, uh, or you just have to accept it. And I know people who accept it, and it seems like a kind of depressing way to live. Yeah. What am I gonna do?

SPEAKER_02 1:46:32

Not spend money on it?

SPEAKER_07 1:46:33

Yeah, no, I'm good. So, uh I mean I mean, like, I don't even like most gacha games. I literally only play FGO because it's FGO, you know? Like that that's it.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:47

I probably would not play Enfield if it's a weird factory building thing, did not every like month or so infect me with I have to remake my entire factory because an update came out that lets me produce more of this resource than I could before. And now my layout is not optimal.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:06

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:07

Yeah, and I have to rebuild my entire factory to make it optimal. But it's fun. I I enjoy that pro I enjoy that process, so that's why I keep coming back to that game.

SPEAKER_07 1:47:19

Is Saturn one day just gonna become a satisfactory?

SPEAKER_01 1:47:21

Uh I I have been fighting off the darkness. The dark earth.

SPEAKER_07 1:47:29

If Saturn gets caught by the satisfactory bug, we'll never see them again. Is the no here's the problem.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:36

Here's the problem, and I don't want to be the one to tell this to you. If I get into Factorio, you'll never hear from me again, because Factorio is a is an evil game for villains and psychopaths. Satisfactory is friendslop.

SPEAKER_08 1:47:53

I see. Oh, is it now? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:56

That is it that that is a game with a multiplayer component.

SPEAKER_08 1:48:01

I see.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:02

And so if I got tricked into paying 40 goddamn dollars for that brain worm, uh-huh, I would wait for it to go on a nice deep sale. And I would give all my dearest friends on this podcast a very sweet gift where I'm like, hey, look, you guys like building shacks and talking while we hang out. Why don't you play Satisfactory with me? And then you are all being sent to the mind.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:31

Saturn being like, listen, I have a great way that you can make money by selling these products.

SPEAKER_07 1:48:38

All you have to do is sign up under me. It's fine. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:44

I if I ever I need you to understand, if I ever try and chill you on MLM, it's because I started it.

SPEAKER_07 1:48:50

Understandable haven't I?

SPEAKER_01 1:48:51

I I I I'm I'm too smart to buy into normal pyramid schemes, but I might start a pyramid scheme and subject you all to it.

SPEAKER_07 1:48:57

Well, yeah, no, no, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:58

But you'll be on the second floor, so you'll still be making good money.

SPEAKER_07 1:49:01

We'll also be making bangs, so it's fine. Don't worry about it. Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:04

It's just all our our listeners. I mean, um I mean our are are suckers. I mean, no, I was right the first time, hold on. Um double fine is union unionizing.

SPEAKER_07 1:49:18

Good for them.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:19

Cool. Uh like I mentioned when we discussed this the other day, uh very happy for them. Also, uh not looking forward to when in like a month or two we get a article about their uh yeah, their mysterious uh corporate motivated uh closure and or restructuring. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_07 1:49:36

Uh we'll see. Unfortunately, they are still owned by Microsoft, and I'm trying to not buy anything by Microsoft, so good for them, but also uh nope.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:46

Yeah. Yeah, not like they're not like they're putting anything out at the moment, but like, you know, good for them anyway. Hopefully they don't get shuttered as a result.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:54

That's correct.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:56

Uh we already talked about switch to price increase.

SPEAKER_07 1:49:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:00

Um it's it happened to the PS5, it's happening to the Xbox, it's happening to the Switch 2.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:08

I I know it's just a consequence of like when the Switch 2 came out, but it is very funny to me that Switch 2 is technically the last of the big three to be doing this price increase. Because Nintendo has historically been the company that is most adverse to selling their product at a loss. Yeah. Because usually before, it's like, well, yeah, you sell your console at a bit of a loss so that you get your install base and then you make a bunch of more money off of the like the publishing fees and and fucking online rent or whatever than you would have just selling the thing at a mild profit. Nintendo's always been the one where it's like, no, we're going to sell the unit at a profit. Go fuck it.

SPEAKER_07 1:50:46

That's why they make that's like why since the Wii, it's always been a more underpowered system, because that was an easy way to make a profit off the machine. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:54

Yeah, and now they're the ones who are the last in the door of, like, yeah, no guys, sorry, we have to up the price of the console.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:00

It's it's very it's crazy to me that this is also increasing in Japan.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:07

Like, so it's it's not just like an import thing. Like, it is like no, we're we're doing this because like we need like the parts are just not coming in or because everything's getting eaten by data centers, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:20

Yeah. The Nintendo Switch 2 is going to cost as much as the PlayStation 5 did when it came out in 2020.

SPEAKER_07 1:51:29

God, I'm so glad I have one now.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:31

That's insane.

SPEAKER_07 1:51:32

Yeah, no, I'm very glad.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:33

I'm glad that uh I'm glad that price increase isn't going into effect until after that new bundle comes out.

SPEAKER_07 1:51:38

Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:39

Yeah. Like I might actually get a chance to get it. And if I don't, I'm not going to get it on principle, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:51:45

Yeah, not paying $550 for a switching.

SPEAKER_07 1:51:48

Fuck that, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:51

Uh next, Marvel Token Fighting Souls adds Hulk and Black Panther.

unknown 1:51:57

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:58

Uh fun Hulk lore is that they are just straight up doing an adaptation of World War Hulk, but they sent him to the Savage Land instead.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:08

So instead of going to space, they just send him to the continent full of dinosaurs.

SPEAKER_07 1:52:14

Great, that rules. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:16

Um, and he's pissed.

SPEAKER_07 1:52:18

Yeah, natural.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:20

It does feel a little like Street Fighter VI announces that they're adding E Honda and Ken. Like, what? What do you mean they weren't already confirmed?

SPEAKER_08 1:52:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like with the.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:30

They're Hulkin Black Panther. Was there some illusion that they weren't going to be in a post-Avengers Marvel crossover title?

SPEAKER_02 1:52:39

It is Shuri and not T'Challa.

SPEAKER_07 1:52:42

Oh, interesting. Okay. Well, I mean, that's fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:47

So that's it's cool. Uh, she looks really cool.

SPEAKER_07 1:52:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:50

Uh Hulk looks cool because he's got the whole like Savage Land like spike teeth armor and like leather straps and stuff.

SPEAKER_07 1:52:58

Oh my goodness, excuse me. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:00

Um designs are so fucking good.

SPEAKER_07 1:53:02

Tokon designs all whip ass is the thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:05

Um Tokon really makes me think someone at the Marvel side like saw the success of like the weird OC Shinobi Batman and Shinobi Harley Quinn they did for Fortnite as a one-off and how much people love those. And they're like, mm-hmm. Why don't we just like make a whole game of that?

SPEAKER_07 1:53:20

I mean, why not? It's fine, it's cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:22

It's really weird because like their whole thing is that they're trying to set up like teams of four as like like like themed teams coming in. So like the Avengers are Black Panther, Captain America Hulk, and Iron Man. Of course. And then you have the X-Men, you have Danger, Magic, Storm, and Wolverine. And then you have a team that is Miss Marvel, Penny Parker, Spider-Man, and Star Lord.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:51

As the peas? Because and they're called the Amazing Guardians, and it's like, oh. They don't really have much in common.

SPEAKER_07 1:54:02

Uh yeah, I guess peas. Yeah, that is right. Except for except for Miss Marvel.

unknown 1:54:07

Oh.

SPEAKER_07 1:54:08

Except for Kamala Kamala.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:10

Um, no, Ben, you're you're and it's actually uh Jing Freaks actually legally changed her name. It used to be spelled Puk Kamala Puk.

SPEAKER_07 1:54:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:21

But I I saw the uh the Venn diagram of uh it was uh one side was Peter, the other side was Parker. Because Star Lord's name is Peter Quill.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:32

And the other one was not Peter, not Parker, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:54:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, then there's also Penny Parker.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:38

Yeah, because one side is is Peter Quill, the other side is Penny Parker, and the overlap is Peter Parker.

SPEAKER_07 1:54:42

That's so cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:43

And then and then Kamala Khan is not Peter Knot Parker. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In her own little uh section. So they the the trailer for Black Panther and Hulk ended with a teaser for what will probably be the villain team, and the hints lead to uh Carnage being one of the villains.

unknown 1:55:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:04

Which would be interesting because it's always Venom and it's never been Carnage.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:07

Okay, I'm gonna make a I'm gonna make a proposal for the the the four-peat villain team that's counter-prose here, right? You have Venom, you have Carnage, you have some other goo guy, uh you have Clayface. No, he's D Say. You get Clayface, you get Clayface, uh you get Standman, you get Standman. A fourth is you get Captain America, but it's specifically the Totsky Fujimoto uh fan art Captain America, where he's a horrible uh fascist gore devil.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:37

Yes. Um and uh our team is called the Gooboys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, perfect.

SPEAKER_07 1:55:46

Hey, it's us, the goobs.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:47

The goobs.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:48

That's right.

SPEAKER_07 1:55:49

Um Marvel Token Battle.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:51

I'm so mad that like I might be getting into fighting games because Token looks so good. Sorry, dude.

SPEAKER_07 1:55:57

I I will never fall down. I I'm reading comic books, but that's a that's a a road I can't follow you down because I'm not good at them.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:04

They got Josh Keaton back to be Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:08

Oh, that's fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:09

Oh, I loved like I love, don't get me wrong, like, like I love Yuri Loenthal. Like he Yuri Loenthal is my Kevin Conroy for Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_08 1:56:18

Sure, of course.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:19

But like Josh Keaton is like my is like uh who is it that plays him in uh in Brave and the Bold? Uh oh I know who you're talking about. T. Bradley Baker.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:32

Like that's that's like Josh Keaton is like that to me, where it's like if you can't get if you can't get Yuri Loenthal, like Josh Keaton is like the backup.

SPEAKER_07 1:56:40

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:43

I regrettably won't be joining you on this journey because I have already I own exactly one overpriced fighting game that I don't play, and it's Street Fighter VI. I understand. They got me on the back of having a create a character and a kind of bad story mode, and you know what? That's all I really want from that kind of game. Fair.

SPEAKER_07 1:57:05

Oh, peanut shush. I'm almost done.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:07

Next, Stranger Than Heaven launches this winter. We got another trailer for that game. Introducing a lot of the uh the famous actors that will be in it. This time, the uh Western surprise character will be Orpheus portrayed by Snoop Dogg.

SPEAKER_07 1:57:27

Sure, okay, why not?

SPEAKER_01 1:57:29

Uh Snoop Dogg, much like Danny Trejo, another older fellow who'll do anything for a paycheck.

SPEAKER_07 1:57:34

Yeah, absolutely. Any amount of money.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:36

They are also going to have a dead man portrayed in this game. Uh the late actor Buntasugawara. Okay, they received uh consent from his family, and then so his likeness will be in the game.

SPEAKER_07 1:57:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:51

Uh obviously voiced by a different person, but still.

SPEAKER_07 1:57:55

I uh I'm very interested in that game. Uh just because I think it looks like visually it looks awesome, so we'll see.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:02

Yeah. Uh they've confirmed. I don't know if we got confirmation that it'll be five eras, but they did in this trailer.

SPEAKER_07 1:58:07

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:08

Uh, from 1915 to 1965.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:11

This is one of those uh Ryuga Gotoku studio games, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:58:15

Uh this is the uh what is basically a Yakuza prequel.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:20

I there are so many doomed and undoomed Yakuza like swimming about in the air this year that I can't remember what they all are anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:29

This is the one made by Ryuga Ryuga Gotoku.

unknown 1:58:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:33

Uh and we saw, like, I think in the not this trailer, but the last trailer, we saw the the Kamurocho arch, so it's literally set in the Yakuza universe.

SPEAKER_07 1:58:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:43

Well, I mean, I may as well fucking use that meat. That's if there's still meat on that phone, you know, may as well melt it down.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:49

I mean, that meat regenerates.

SPEAKER_06 1:58:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:51

Like that meat is that meat is some eternal meat that has been going on.

SPEAKER_06 1:58:55

That's a cheat, it's an eternal soup, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:58:57

Yeah. It's really easy to make a map, uh a map for a video game when you already have the map. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:04

Absolutely. Turns out you can make the reason they can make games like once every two years is because they just go to the same places.

SPEAKER_05 1:59:11

Uh they're smart about it. That that's genius.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:13

Yeah. Why do you think uh Pirate Yakuza had all that all that like old rubble and busted up like uh shanty towns? Because they were gonna fucking use them in this game.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:25

That's right. Every part of the bird.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:27

Yep. Uh, just two more. Greater than games ownership returns to original founders.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:36

So we talked last time how Handelabra Games uh bought the rights to greater than to uh Sentinels. What the fuck is going on with this saga? So they they have given the rights back to Christopher Bedell and Paul Bender, who were the original founders of Greater Than Games.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:52

Very funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:53

Um, so the uh Bedell and Adam Rivitaro, the artists for Sentinels, have confirmed they are working on more Sentinel stuff.

SPEAKER_07 2:00:03

That's so funny. Good for them. That's that's the funniest way to get your shit back, is to have somebody just be like a fan of you and be like, yeah, we bought this back. You can have it though. It's chill. Don't worry about it. Uh that rules. Can we now get a second edition of uh Sentinels in the Multiverse RPG?

SPEAKER_02 2:00:20

Probably, please, but they have said they are available to help you write that. They are doing uh uh prints for the card game, the board game, the tabletop game. Um they are moving on reprints of all the definitive definitive edition stuff for the card game, moving on to a new expansion, and then they have talked a little bit.

SPEAKER_07 2:00:46

I'm gonna send them a letter to request.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:48

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, so I looked at their website. Um, here's another additional it's a little, it's a different announcement thing that's related, I'm sure. Uh in honor of Superhero Day 2026, Handel Labra is excited to announce a new venture aimed at further securing the future of Sentinel Comics. Sentinel Comics Media Holdings, a new company, will handle all licensing for the Sentinel Comics games, brand, character, stories, and settings. The structure will allow Handelabra to continue its mission at making the best digital tabletop games without diluting what we are best at. Sentinel Comics Media Holdings will also be working with a new partner in the tabletop space to breathe life back into the cardboard multiverse. Expect more information on the Sentinel Comics RPG as well as more definitive edition news very soon. Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:01:34

Yay, please give us a second edition. I really like that.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:38

Handle uh excuse me, Sentinel Comics Media Holdings, Andor Handelover, whoever's listening. I know you're listening to this. We're like the only podcast on the internet that's making like actual play content of your game currently, I'm sure. I'm not I'm not going to bother to look that up to double check. Uh get get in my emails. Uh DM me on Blue Sky. I'll write for you.

SPEAKER_07 2:01:56

We will write the the RPG second edition for you. It's we it's actually not hard. We just make the skills a little bit more varied and make the RP part of the thing a little bit better. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:07

Like, like not not not to suggest y'all don't have your stuff figured out, but like I will literally be in your creative, like I I will help you there for free. We just have notes.

SPEAKER_07 2:02:19

Well, I just got a couple notes to just to just give you, right? Like then nothing nothing big, just a couple dozen or two ideas about improving a a tabletop series that I already quite like a lot, but uh is a little rough. Just a few. That's it.

SPEAKER_06 2:02:39

Let us do it, please. We will help you.

SPEAKER_07 2:02:42

We've been play testing like so much of your TTRPG. We know where all the cruft is now. We are willing to help, please.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:52

I'm so glad that they just they just got it back.

SPEAKER_07 2:02:55

I'm glad they got it back. I'm glad they're able to do more.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:58

Good for them. Uh, and finally, Netflix misspells a lead Devil May Cry character's name and has to recall official merchandise.

SPEAKER_07 2:03:10

This is just an excuse to talk about how bad the Devil May Cry anime is because I don't want to be sad.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:16

I don't want I don't want to be sad.

SPEAKER_07 2:03:18

I don't want to be sad.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:20

This did make me laugh though, because I need you to look at the shirt that they're recalling. What in the what in the fucking Vegeta? There's a place for me in hell, it's called the throne, is this shirt?

SPEAKER_07 2:03:41

You know? I can see it. Uh funny enough, the the company I used to work for had the merchandise rights for Devil May Cry. I used to make Devil May Cry t-shirts back in the day. Um, so there's a non-zero chance that somebody I know made this.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:58

Um I think the worst part is that this is this isn't tie-dye, this is print all over, which means this is the most uncomfortable, unbreathable polyester nightmare you've ever put on.

SPEAKER_07 2:04:09

It's not tie-dye. Anything sublimated. If this was tie-dyed, um, I would actually probably think it's kind of cool. Like, not this, not with the fucking Netflix art, because I again I hate studio mirrors in-house look. But like conceptually, if you did this with like in-game models with the whole two faces and splatter and all that shit, and it was on a real tie-dye blank, um, I actually would think that's kind of cool because tie-dye shirts are cool. Um but because this is sublimated, there's no universe where these colors are that saturated. Like, like there's no there's no universe where this print looks that good, right? Because like even on a like, oh god, I get to talk about my job. Yeah, direct a garment printer, you would not get lines this crisp, but they would still be crisp enough. But the thing is, a sublimated t-shirt is essentially a big piece of ink that is hot pressed onto it. It has to be a polyester shirt because any any cotton content whatsoever will catch on fire. It has to be a 100% polyester shirt because cotton, because it uses extreme heat to transfer the ink from the from the sublimation paper to the shirt. Um polyester just melts a little. That's part of why it's not so breathable, is because the the the fibers have been melted and crushed in the processing. Um but it it also means that your print is always gonna be kind of blurry, right?

SPEAKER_03 2:05:44

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_07 2:05:45

Just like with the nature of how it's being printed into fabric, it's gonna spread, right? Like it's ink soaking into fabric. It's always gonna be a little blurry, it's never gonna look this good, right? Right? Um, I just think that's very interesting. It's it's very, very funny to me. It this looks like shit, and if you bought it, it would look even worse, which is really funny.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:09

Yeah. This is a shirt that was made, if not on purpose, at least in the conceptual thematic narrative of the universe, exclusively to be worn by people who cannot walk the block to the 7-Eleven without lighting up the dab on the way there and the way back. Correct. Absolutely. 100%.

SPEAKER_07 2:06:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:28

If that describes you, well, there's a really ugly shirt you can wear.

SPEAKER_07 2:06:32

Well, you can't wear it because it's been recalled, but I'm sure they'll put it back out.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:36

So I'll put it back. But does the thing say how much it costs, by the way? I'm guessing like $55. It is not, but I'm imagining that much as well, yeah. I'm saying about $35, but I'm I I I share your I I share your optimism. Ain't no way.

SPEAKER_05 2:06:51

No, ain't no way.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:52

Ain't no way. That shit's $55 United States dollars.

SPEAKER_05 2:06:55

I'm paused. Uh it's absurd. I hate the Devil May Cry anime. I hate it so badly.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:00

I saw I saw a clip of Dante and Lady doing Jojo stuff, and this is what they're working on instead of Seal Ball Run.

SPEAKER_05 2:07:09

It's so depressing.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:11

I'm so mad. They didn't even do fucking Jojo poses. They just kind of drew the characters like they were in Jojo.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:18

Well no, they'd have to have like a creative idea to do something fun.

SPEAKER_07 2:07:21

The thing, the thing that I just keep seeing on Twitter is uh people say, like, people who are Monster Hunter and Resident Evil fans being like, this is like watching your cousin just get their ass kicked in the street. Right? Right. Like Monster Hunter fans have got good shit, and Resident Evil fans are always eating good, of course. Um, and Devil May Cry fans get scraps, and no new video game since 2019, except for a bad mobile game that I hate. So, uh, you know, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:54

They put them in uh in uh Kaneko's uh fucking Gen AI fucking slop game where instead of making uh even AI generated Kaneko uh art for them, they just put in their promotional renders, which is the funniest fucking thing in the world. It's absurd. It's so good. Imagine if you played SMT3 featuring Dante from the Devil Make Cry series, and when Dante showed up, he was literally just the PNG of Dante billboarding to the camera.

SPEAKER_05 2:08:20

It's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:21

Like that dog from AC7. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:23

Yeah, they just do the fucking billboard thing where he's always facing you no matter what.

SPEAKER_04 2:08:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:29

Oh, have you ever seen that clip from the first from the first One Piece movie or like the the first like TV special where everyone is animated like it seems like all the crew members are animated, then Zoro just looks like a cardboard cutout.

SPEAKER_07 2:08:42

That's exactly what it is. Uh it's so it's so hard. Guys, it's so hard loving Devil May Cry.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:50

I know.

SPEAKER_07 2:08:50

And and fucking and Capcom does not know what to do with the franchise even a little bit. It's hell on earth. Ugh.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:57

I hate Adi Shankar.

SPEAKER_07 2:08:59

I hate Adi Shankar so bad. I hate it here. Uh Death would be kinder sometimes, I think. So they did.

SPEAKER_02 2:09:07

Uh to Adi Shankar, certainly. Sarah, I need to point out this to you because I found this out too. They did the thing that DMC the DMC did, where Virgil was the weaker one. So, you know, completely getting the whole dynamic between these characters wrong.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:27

You're telling me that you're telling me that that uh Western uh game makers and showmakers who claim to like DMC have done nothing but misinterpret the boss the boss's will for the last like 20 years.

SPEAKER_07 2:09:37

It's because Westerners can't conceive of the idea that your main character isn't the strongest guy in the room. Like they just can't even like conceptualize the idea that there's somebody who isn't your main character, especially because A.D. Shankar, like, when they first announced the fucking DMC Netflix, it showed A.D. Shankar dressed like Dante. So clearly he is self-inserting to a certain degree as Dante. So he can't abide by the fact that like there could be a guy who's cooler and stronger than his self-insert version of Dante. Yeah, who is barely Dante, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:10:12

Like Yeah, that's why Dante listens to Asmongolder when I'm gonna do that. Well that's why in that first season.

SPEAKER_07 2:10:17

Yeah, and that's why Dante is voiced by fucking like they're taking all the shit. Like Dante gets the apparently gets the Devil Bringer in the second season. He gets Nero's arm because they're just like, we don't need Nero. We can just give all that shit. He's already got his voice actor, and let's just give him all his powers and shit too. It's absurd. I uh I have been trying to avoid it. I I really don't want to subject myself to it more than I have to. I'm not, trust me.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:43

You deserve to be happy. I do.

SPEAKER_07 2:10:44

I'm gonna play Devil May Cry 5 again and be happy instead of miserable.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:47

I just saw the the most cursed thing ever, which was after Dante or Dante and Lady Kiss were like, well, that's where Dero's gonna come from.

SPEAKER_07 2:10:55

I don't, don't, don't speak it. Don't speak it into existence. No, no, I don't want it. I hate it here. Um, I hate being a Devil May Cry fan.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:07

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_07 2:11:07

I just I just gotta play Devil May Cry 5 again. It's the only way. Yeah. There's a rumor about a Devil May Cry 1 remake, and I'm like, I don't know if I want that dog. I think I think I would just rather you just leave it alone, actually.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:18

Please. Uh Dragon's Dogma fans laugh it up. You just wait until Netflix makes a show about your stupid fucking game, then we'll see who's laughing.

SPEAKER_07 2:11:27

Oh no, Saturn. No.

unknown 2:11:30

That is.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:32

Look, I'm so I'm so we're gonna be controversial with the three Canadians who like Dragon's Dogma are listening to this fucking podcast.

SPEAKER_07 2:11:39

That anime already exists.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:41

Does it?

SPEAKER_07 2:11:42

Yeah, Dragon's Dogma anime.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:44

Um, well, it can't be that bad. Nobody remembered it.

SPEAKER_07 2:11:50

That's fair. That's fair, absolutely. You're so right. Damn.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:57

Hey Mega Man fans, how are you doing? They're dead.

SPEAKER_07 2:12:00

Oh, they're all dead.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:01

Oh, no one fed them. Oh god.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:03

Oh no, they're getting a new game that looks kind of like a Mega Man game, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:08

I don't know. Uh I think they have to boycott that for for some reason. I can't remember why now.

SPEAKER_07 2:12:13

Who knows?

SPEAKER_01 2:12:15

There's probably some Gen A horse shit, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_07 2:12:17

Probably. Anyways.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:18

It's Capcom. That's probably some Gen A horse shit.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:21

I think the person they got uh the voice actor for him. Uh oh, they're Union Busting. That's right. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_07 2:12:31

Well. So it goes. Look, the point is, even still Mega Man fans aren't suffering as much as the average Devil May Cry fan. It's it's hard out here, though.

SPEAKER_05 2:12:43

It's hard out here. I uh don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:47

Yeah. I think I think I just think that that shirt with the misspelled character's name is probably like the most like indicative metaphor you could get for Devil May Cry's current status.

SPEAKER_07 2:12:58

That's correct.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:02

Let's let's pack it up.

SPEAKER_07 2:13:04

Pack it up.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:05

Yeah. Uh thank you to DJ Cupman for using our background music. Email us at thegorgepodcast at gmail.com. Follow us on our social medias, join our Discord, join our Patreon, Patreon slash the Gorge. Listen to the reboot. It's good. If you're listening to the reboot on the Patreon, we're taking a bit of a break to do a side story that Saturn will be running.

unknown 2:13:28

Yay!

SPEAKER_02 2:13:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:30

It might be if you're listening to this as it comes up, uh, don't expect it soon. We're gonna we're gonna try to start recording it maybe uh next month. Uh so there's a little bit of a break on the TTRPG front, but we'll be back to you soon with something uh related but different. Yeah, it'll be fun. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:49

Um and yeah, that's about it.

SPEAKER_07 2:13:54

Cool. Uh fuck 80 Shankar.

unknown 2:13:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:57

Fuck Audi Shankar. That's all I got. Fuck Audi Shankar. You ruin everything.

SPEAKER_07 2:14:02

I I can't I can't abide by it. That's that's all I got. I'm not gonna watch it. I'm never gonna subject myself to the Devil May Cry TV show.

SPEAKER_03 2:14:09

No.

SPEAKER_07 2:14:10

Ever. Genuinely go watch the old anime from like 2007. It's it's it's not that good, but it's still better than this horseshit, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:14:19

If I'm in a room with Adi Shankar and Rick Berman and I got a gun with one bullet, I'm gonna ask them to sit by side by side and like their heads real nice, alright?

unknown 2:14:28

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 2:14:29

If you want a good Devil May Cry anime, you watch Rise of the Teenage View Ninja Turtles.

SPEAKER_07 2:14:35

Pretty much.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:36

If you want a good Devil May Cry anime, you play Devil May Cry. That also works, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:14:41

Play Devil May Cry 5. It's perfect. You know? Like, do yourself that favor. So that's all I got. That's all I got. Good night, everyone.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:51

Good night, everyone. Good night.