We also tackle the controversial topic of sandbagging in the Tour de Dirt and share our opinions gravel topics, and recap the 2023 races to this point in the season.
Get an inside look at the diverse racing scene in Oklahoma, from Ironman, Rule of 3, Unbound craziness, crit racing and everything in between. We give shout-outs to local athletes who have achieved great success in their respective disciplines. We also provide information on upcoming multi-sport races, gravel, crits and discuss the pros and cons of Ironman and Lifetime race events, including their costs and exclusivity.
Finally, we dive into the world of gravel racing and debate the advantages and disadvantages of arrow bars and hydration packs. Discover the difference between bike packing and racing, and listen in as we discuss the experiences of legends Chad, Rob, and Taylor Lideen with epic races like the 350 XL. Don't miss this engaging episode filled with race recaps, series previews, and lively opinions on the ever-evolving world of cycling!
We also tackle the controversial topic of sandbagging in the Tour de Dirt and share our opinions gravel topics, and recap the 2023 races to this point in the season.
Get an inside look at the diverse racing scene in Oklahoma, from Ironman, Rule of 3, Unbound craziness, crit racing and everything in between. We give shout-outs to local athletes who have achieved great success in their respective disciplines. We also provide information on upcoming multi-sport races, gravel, crits and discuss the pros and cons of Ironman and Lifetime race events, including their costs and exclusivity.
Finally, we dive into the world of gravel racing and debate the advantages and disadvantages of arrow bars and hydration packs. Discover the difference between bike packing and racing, and listen in as we discuss the experiences of legends Chad, Rob, and Taylor Lideen with epic races like the 350 XL. Don't miss this engaging episode filled with race recaps, series previews, and lively opinions on the ever-evolving world of cycling!
All right, alan, this is going to be fun. So I'm here with Mr Alan White, aka Gravel Doc, and this is going to be a different episode because it is going to be essentially want to do a race recap and we're going to do like race series things because clearly we're experts. So if people don't know you, alan, let's give them a quick update of who you are.
Alan:Oh boy.
Ryan:Because you've been on it, they can go back and listen to your past episode.
Alan:Yeah, jen, and. I think, it was Jen and I.
Ryan:When, speaking of Jen is my number one most downloaded episode. Oh, that's awesome. She's going to love to hear that. Yeah, yeah.
Alan:Shout out to Jen when you keep her episode at the top there because you know it was a good one.
Ryan:Happy wife is happy life, it's right, i'm more interested in my happiness than your drawing. Shocking, shocking.
Alan:Yeah, so I've been riding bikes now for north of 20 plus years. A little known fact that most people don't know about me is I used to actually race motocross back in the day, so yeah back in the morning.
Ryan:It's amazing how many people riding bikes race motocross It is And it's.
Alan:it's one of those, those skills sort of stay with you over the years. And it's useful in sort of racing mountain bikes and then obviously over in the in the gravel.
Ryan:Yeah, because I just did an episode with Evan and you know he's setting the world on fire in the crit scene right now And we're talking to him And he's like I mean he's only been racing crits for like a couple of years, yeah, I was like was it scary, getting in there and rubbing like first off? He's like no, i raced motocross and I was like junior high and I'm like damn it they all do. Yeah, everybody that's a good bike handler is either it was BMX or motocross.
Alan:You are comfortable at speed and close proximity to other people. Yeah, that's why I helped. Yeah, but now the flip side is. the scary part is those folks who aren't comfortable at speed and, and you know, which is why I don't do crit racing. Yeah, i keep retiring and then on retiring and then retire.
Ryan:You retire sometimes in races. I always retire in races.
Alan:Yeah.
Ryan:So to give people an idea of how this is going to flow, we have no idea.
Alan:We have none whatsoever, but we're going to roll with it.
Ryan:Yeah we want to do some race series. Yep, do some, maybe some previews. We have good ideas. We'll see if we pull any of them off.
Alan:Yeah, we'll do our opinions. We hope to stir the pot a little bit, not hope to.
Ryan:We will stir the pot a little bit with our opinion, and if people don't know us, it's well, you're about to find out. We do have an opinion, yes, and it's probably going to. That's probably going to piss some people off. Oh, i'm sure it will, but it's going to be funny, but that's OK, because the people that doesn't piss off, they're going to laugh, yeah, yeah. So everyone will probably be offended at some point.
Alan:If we're not doing that, we're not doing it right. I agree, yeah.
Ryan:That's how I live my life. Yeah, So just to piss people off and get things started me and you have talked briefly before about what we want to cover today, but I didn't roll this one out to you. But what do you think about all the sandbagging and tour de dirt?
Alan:Oh my God, You people need to Cut up. Thank you, yes.
Ryan:Thank you. Yes, let's just start with tour de dirt. Yes, because we both race it. Yep, actually, i've raced with you and here you sound like a Sasquatch out there.
Alan:Yeah, so if you can hear me breathing, that means I'm close by and you need to go faster.
Ryan:And that comes from at Thunderbird. I was having some issues and I could hear you coming through the woods. Yeah, i'm standing on the side of the trail. I swear it's a Sasquatch coming, yep. And then, about 30 seconds later, here comes Alan cruising by on his bike Yep, huffing and puffing and doing mating calls.
Alan:Yes. So here's my claim to fame. I'm the only person to ever have forced Chris Drummond to quit a race, And it was the endurance race this year at Thunderbird. He heard me coming up the hill behind him. He had blown himself up and in his head is I am not letting him catch me and pass me. So he just rolled off up Huffy Hill and called it a day. Well good for you.
Alan:Yep, i'm getting not on, yeah he has a few national championships jersey, so I'm going to get a. I made Chris Drummond quit jersey.
Ryan:You should. You should have a Drummond championship jersey.
Alan:Yep, i am on the wall, yeah, because he's.
Ryan:I don't know if you can be any of them in the family.
Alan:So I don't know. I mean, you know we talked with Aubrey up in Tulsa, tulsa Tough, and you know she just is killing it at the pro level A hundred percent.
Ryan:Yeah, i do want to touch on that because I would love to, and I sent Drummond a message and he gave me her number, so I'm going to reach out, i'm going to get her on the episode, like an episode of her, really soon, because she's doing pretty cool stuff. So I mean, fill us in on what you've seen her do.
Alan:Yeah, i mean just you know local Oklahoma kid just out there killing it with you know the big girls, and just I mean she's more than holding her own.
Ryan:Yeah, she's racing all the biggest races all over the country.
Alan:Yeah, she is, and she's in there mixing it up with them. I think you know, the thing that'll you know come with with time and age is experience is racing in there with those folks.
Ryan:Only her second year racing at this level. Second year racing at this level. Yeah, she's guest riding for Legion, sometimes here and there. Yeah, she's got her team that she's riding on and doing great.
Alan:Austin aviators. Yeah, yeah.
Ryan:I think they're. She's got nationals this week, this week, yeah, i think she was flying.
Alan:Yeah, I remember right.
Ryan:So yeah, she's doing it, which is super cool.
Alan:Yeah, and what's what's really funny about you know, the drummers is, ryan is like he's just killing it on every race he enters And he, you know, he's like you doing any training. No, i'm just riding my bike Just hanging out.
Ryan:Man, yeah, yeah, just cruises around And I know it probably makes big daddy drumming like just get him up inside. You're like, come on, kid, if you would just train you'd be so good Yeah. But yeah, that kid's always beaten to his own drum and always has.
Ryan:Yep Always will, yeah The drumming family is amazing And I do want to have episodes with all of them. I told Chris I want to have him on too, Really, So yeah, So we're just going to do some race recaps, kind of talk about local athletes who are doing amazing things. Like, clearly, Aubrey is one of them that is just out there doing amazing, amazing races and results. So we'll definitely keep people up to date on her and what she's doing. Victor is another one that's out there. That's a local legend that's doing things on a national level, racing big races. I know he's not quite to the level he wants to be. He's still kind of finishing middle of the pack in the pro fields and stuff, But you know he's finishing top 25-ish in about every. You know UC or I don't know if it's UCI mountain bike races, but the biggest pro mountain bike races in the country.
Alan:Yeah, yeah.
Ryan:So he's doing really well, which hopefully everybody's. Anybody's met Victor. He's like the nicest guy on the planet, such a cool dude, such a cool dude. So I really hope that he continues to do awesome things and you know? but because anytime he shows up to a local race it's just amazing how fast he is, and I think he's finishing like 25th in a race is just wild.
Alan:Yeah, it used to be back in the day and toward a dirt. So when you showed up to a Katwan race, you had you know, you had drumming malot barret, a handful of folks. You know, troy, you always knew exactly where you were going to finish. Every single time, every time, every single time.
Ryan:Yeah, i think to her to dirt has. You know clearly the popularity. You know, ed, ebbs and flows as things are more popular or less popular. Mountain biking seems to be on the upswing right now. You go to the races. I mean they have great crowds depending on the venues, but even like lotten normally has a really small crowd because the course is just ungodly, miserable, brutal. But they've changed it, but now they are having good fields.
Alan:Yeah, and I talked to Cortez dying there for a little bit. I'm like man, this is the best course I've ever ridden. Dying here. The last two years have been awesome. Yep, it was a phenomenal course. The heat kicked in a little bit that day, which sort of beat some people up, but yeah, it's been good to see like I haven't raced toward a dirt in a handful of years and so coming out this year and throwing it down, throwing it down has been. It's been fun seeing all the new faces and seeing some of the old faces. Yeah, and it's, it's so stacked.
Ryan:Oh my gosh, yeah, the ones I feel like the under, i mean the cat ones. I feel like I've lost a little bit. Yeah, because exactly all those guys that you talked about don't really race here anymore or aren't racing anymore, right, so that's kind of stinks, but I think cat two and three is like off the charts. Cat two is stacked for sure. I mean, it shouldn't be as stacked. Let's be honest about that No I mean we have to know who you are, Ben.
Alan:Yeah, we have to tell you that every time I race with you, with Ben at the start line of hey dude like can we do like a neutral?
Ryan:role right here Or Ben should have to give us. Oh, and I'm going to throw Jake in there to Jake, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm going to say both of them need to give us like 10 minute head starts, yep, and then have to come through the field, which I think would help us again, and then we would at least see them.
Alan:Yeah, or we get to pick what gear he rides in for the entire thing.
Ryan:That's a good one. Yeah, huh, i like that And a few.
Alan:He's awesome Because if you look at his Strava rides lately, every place he's riding he's just blowing KLMs out of the water, i know, and it's like hey maybe, maybe we can put Ben on a 26. Oh yeah, it's 26, hardtail, rigid, what we need to tell him is the real heroes, ride single speed and that's where he needs to go race. That's a good point.
Ryan:Yeah.
Alan:Yeah. Or can we get him an e-bike? Oh yeah, No, because then he's just going to be further ahead of us.
Ryan:But he's not in our category. Who cares? He is still passes. But who's the one that went to e-bike this year? the guy that won Cat 2 last year? Oh, he did move to e-bike. He moved to e-bike and he first off, he's a freak cat 2. He would be very competitive and cat once, yeah. And now he's basically riding a motorcycle through the trees Yeah, 17 miles an hour. It's wild.
Alan:That is the most depressing thing on the planet is you think you're doing really well And then this guy, old guy, comes blazing past your full face, helmet, knee pads and tennis shoes and you're like what is wrong with my bike right now?
Ryan:It's awful. And they always you get behind them in a tight situation, yep, and so finally you get past them and then you get on a climb. You sound like a Sasquatch and they come by smiling and talking to you.
Alan:Yeah, and I can't breathe, yeah.
Ryan:Yeah, and you just want to like get off your bike and quit? Yeah, it's miserable. They clearly have. The e-bike division has more fun than we do. Yeah, oh, by far. They're having a blast and it really kind of makes me want an e-bike. Yeah, i'm not going to lie about that.
Alan:There was a recent GCN episode where they were saying everything comes full circle, that gravel is now dying and mountain biking is the new thing.
Ryan:Oh, interesting.
Alan:It was there kind of tongue in cheek.
Ryan:But I would say, I mean I would say that mountain biking is on an upswing again.
Alan:They were using the cross country, like the cross country world series of. Like you know, i have any of us that has a mountain bike riding Penarello, penarello, my balance has come back out with the mountain bike.
Ryan:Penarello came out with one this year. So any of us? and who's the hair.
Alan:Yeah, who's the? there was a French team as well. Yeah, i can't remember who it was.
Ryan:The guy that Vanderpool.
Alan:Oh yeah, He writes for.
Ryan:Yeah, yeah. So there's a handful of like world tour teams that are letting the team.
Alan:Yeah, the hair people. Yeah, hair people. Yeah, yeah, you wouldn't know, you wouldn't know. Sorry, i'm sorry about that.
Ryan:But yeah, i mean, i think I think mountain biking, especially in Oklahoma, the trails like Arcadia, is getting super good, you know, like I think our trails are getting much, much better And I think that the competition is getting super stiff and younger which is really good to see, like there's a lot of juniors out there racing and they're getting faster and stronger And it's just, it's really awesome to see, i think that Tulsa group kids getting the influence from Northwest Arkansas is scary.
Alan:Yeah, yeah, those, those Northwest Arkansas kids like they can just rip. If you ever want to do skills development, yeah, just go up and hit up drum and say hey, can I come right with? a bike, but you know, the kids, yeah, my kids for a day.
Ryan:Yeah, man, at Keystone, which is the first race of the year, yeah, i was cruising along and that course was just crushed my soul Like it was so hard. And I remember this. Like I got passed by a kid and he went by me not even breathing at all And I was about to fall off my bike And then about halfway through that lap I could see another kid coming And I was like, and I saw this kid before the race And he's about five foot tall and weighed like 85 pounds And I was like I cannot let this little punk pass me. And I'm talking, i was drilling in as hard as I could. Anytime we went uphill he would get close to me And I would have to get him on the downhills and all the other stuff. And it was my goal because he caught me towards the end of the lap, but I knew that was his last lap.
Ryan:Yeah, i just got it. I will screw myself for the rest of the race to not let this kid pass me before we get to the finish line. I held him off. That was my victory. Brilliant. A little 12 year old punk.
Ryan:Yeah, he was so fast, But yeah. so I think Tour de Dert is in a great place. It kicks back off in September Yeah, yeah For the fall season, I think there's what four or five four races left, that's four or five races left. Yeah, and there's some good ones.
Alan:They are there. There's some good ones, i think. do we go We go to Kansas, Yeah we go up north into Kansas. That used to be an old course way back in the day, great place to race. There's some hills up there.
Ryan:And then you got Twisted Oak, which would be super hilly and tough Yeah. I think that's where it ends this year again.
Alan:Yeah, ray Hall's place. You know that that's his dream come true, up there Just getting to build that. put it out, you know, and I think he's doing.
Ryan:And he raises money for a great cause every time he puts on a race. Yeah, and he's also doing a duathlon, an off road duathlon, this summer. Why would you ever run?
Alan:when you can ride a bike.
Ryan:Well, especially in August in Tulsa, i mean, it's not going to be miserable at all.
Alan:No, no, no, not at all.
Ryan:No, i just did an off road nationals in duathlon and triathlon in Arkansas first of June. I don't understand why they have off road races in the summertime.
Alan:Yeah, it's a terrible idea.
Ryan:No, miserable, yeah, no so humid, full of bugs just awful Yeah, so.
Ryan:Ray, good luck with that one, it's going to be good. Yeah, so he does a great job with his courses. See, i don't even know where do you want to jump or jump to. Just on that, just a quick highlight. I mean, we have a whole list of races that we have here, from everything from multi sport to gravel to crit racing, to everything. I think to cover one cool thing. I know people on here hate multi sport, but deal with it. That's my background. But I do want to give a shout out to two people for the Ironman and that we had in Tulsa, which, if you want to get into my opinions of Ironman and how much I hate them, we can do that. But Noel, which is a Tulsa guy, he's so unreal fast. He has an amazing story. If you've never heard it, he was addicted to heroin.
Ryan:Oh boy And extremely overweight. There's just type in Noel Mulkey and you'll see his story. It's very impressive. But now he is just that addiction drive that he had for that is now into multi sport. He got sixth overall. He's going to world championships, Jessica Jones lastly, she won overall female.
Alan:She's a.
Ryan:Kona.
Alan:Awesome.
Ryan:Numerous, numerous times There's another family that sort of that family's in their blood.
Alan:Yeah, so Jake and Seth. Yeah it's wild, yeah, wild.
Ryan:And her daughter, i think, is a really fast runner. Yeah, yeah, so she's going to be on the podcast soon. I reached out to her. She said yes, so we just got to get that done. But she won overall female, which is super cool, Yeah.
Ryan:And then DJ Snyder, who's a local Oklahoma city guy. he got, I believe. Oh man, what did DJ get? I had it written down. I thought I think he got like eighth or ninth overall in the seventy point three. Oh wow, And DJ was actually. he won Ironman Maryland a handful of years ago overall.
Alan:Oh, very cool.
Ryan:So he's, he's legit. So yeah, he did really, but he got top 10 overall in the seventy point three. So those are the ones that I have written down. I'm not sure if there was some I missed in there, but I clearly want to touch on the on the multi sport stuff and keep people up to date on that. It's multi sport season, so there's a bunch of races going at all times. I think our state championship is in July in Guthrie.
Alan:Oh, is it really Yeah? Guthrie Lake Yeah.
Ryan:Yeah, so if anybody wants to jump in to do some multi sport, there's a whole bunch of them out there. Just go to try find and you can find them. But I think that's kind of all we can cover on the multi sport side of things. It's it's up and going, and so get out there and do them if you want to want to give it a shot. Good segue for you.
Alan:Has lifetime become the new Ironman? I hope not. No, maybe, though I have my own opinions.
Ryan:Now that you say that I think you may be onto something. Yeah, huh, i never thought about it.
Alan:Yeah, what's the cost? What's the cost to enter an Ironman?
Ryan:Hmm, A full is going to be somewhere in the range of 800 to 1000. Holy crap, depending on where it's at, i think most of them are think 795, 895, somewhere in that range, and then when they have the like, like Kona, i think, is 12 or 1500, which that's a whole shit show in itself. Now, what they've done is they've ruined Kona. They've ruined it. In my opinion, it'll never be what it was. It's a disaster and it's it's too bad. Yeah, and that's a polarizing opinion And there's some local people that are have their opinions on it, but I think they've ruined it.
Ryan:It's, it's stupid. Yeah, and if you, basically if you finish a race, you can kind of get into Kona. Is that right? Yeah, because they split it for people that don't know. Yeah, last year at Kona they had still had the COVID influx, so they had two days of racing, men on one day, women on one day, just to get everybody, all the athletes, through. Smart business, wise, i get it. They said, hey, we can have double the athletes, make double the money. Kona said screw off, you're ruining our island. So they split it now. So this year the women's will be in Kona, the men's will be in Nice.
Alan:Oh, for real.
Ryan:And then the next year it'll flip flop And it'll be like that from now on. So if you are a husband and wife who is fast, you're not racing, yeah, because they're only like a couple of weeks apart, month apart, i think, something like that, yeah. And if you're a man this year and you qualify and you're like you're going to Nice, well, your dream has always been to go to Kona. That's where the history is. It's like qualifying for the Masters and then being like well, it's at like a course in Heffner golf club.
Alan:Yeah, exactly.
Ryan:And you're like well, i'm going to play in the Masters. I like, well, it's called the Masters, it's just the Masters South, you know, or what are Masters West? So, yeah, they've ruined it And they've, in doing that, they allow significantly more spots, because instead of having I don't know exactly the number, but 2000 athletes total, now they got 2000 men and 2000 women. Yeah, and so I'm at Tulsa. If there were women that qualified, i'm sure there was men as well, but that finished dead last in their age group, who got roll down spots because everybody just left. Because you're like, because used to, it was like it would be, you had to win. Top one or two in your age group was all that would qualify. Yeah, And if you had a small age group, sometimes they didn't have spots for you to qualify because there wasn't enough people racing.
Ryan:Yeah, now it's like oh, there's 80 people in your category, there's 20 spots available. Yeah, well, you lose the prestige. Well, out of that 80 people, 20 of them are already going. Yeah, the other say there's another 30 that leave. Because they're like well, i finished in 15 hours, why don't I stay around? So they stay the next day of the awards ceremony. And you're like well, i barely finished and they're just giving me a spot. Yeah, they want the money.
Alan:Yeah, That was the old when lifetime bought Leadville Back in the day. You just had to go do like a Austin Rattler qualifier event And all you had to do was finish, and and they would say, hey, you have to qualify, you have to finish in a certain time, right, but then then you know, that night at the awards ceremony, they're literally just handing out coins like it's candy. Oh like hey, you want to go to.
Ryan:Leadville, here you go. It's just a money grab, yeah, like I understand you have to make money and it has to be a business. I get that, yep. But if that's what it is, then just say that's what it is And that's cool, yep. But don't build it to be this prestige like in an honor, when it's kind of not anymore. Yeah, yeah, it's not. And so the DNF rate that they're going to have at Kona is going to be huge. It's going to be a disaster, it's going to be a disaster.
Ryan:So I'm super bummed that Iron Man has now ruined like the most epic event that they've ever had and will ever had It's and it can never go back.
Ryan:Because think about people like Sarah Bell, who worked her butt off for years. Yeah, the chance to qualify. She qualifies and goes, yeah. And now people who finished in 16 hours were like, oh well, i've done Kona too. Yeah, that was my first Iron Man I ever did and I qualified in what's Kona. So does that take away from what Sarah did? Right, i hate that. Yeah, i don't like it.
Alan:So I'm sure that'll piss off people. So there's two things that I've noticed people Well, and most everybody knows my feelings on lifetime anyway, let's hear it.
Alan:Oh, i just think it's such a they've created this exclusivity to their event right Or events plural. You know there's a lot of YouTube episodes out there over the last sort of week, two weeks, about unbind specifically, and one of them was talking about, you know, that sort of average cost all in if you want to go do unbind as entry fee. you know, hotel, all the things you're north of a thousand dollars easily, north of a thousand dollars right Before you repair your bike Before you repair your bike right, and then if you're flying in from overseas flights on top of that right.
Alan:So now you're in the sort of two, three grand territory, for you know, and it truly is.
Ryan:Did they change the price when they took it over?
Alan:Yeah, they did So. It used to be many moons ago, sort of showing my age here back in the dirty cans of days. Don't know if we can say that, but we're gonna say it Yeah, back in the dirty cans of days. It was a $50 entry fee.
Ryan:Oh really, yeah, What is it now?
Alan:$250, $300. Okay.
Ryan:Yeah.
Alan:Interesting. Yeah, Leadville, last year I did a deferral because it was a $450 entry fee. Geez Yeah.
Ryan:So, okay, because this is a perfect, we'll segue into unbound, because there's some good fun to get there. So, but on the lifetime thing, because I'm not, i don't stay up on it. Is, have they? I stay up on it from following the pro series and just seeing where things are at there, and I watched the YouTube show about last lifetime series last year, which was a great series. I thought, yeah, do you feel like they've added value and they made the events better, or is it?
Alan:just for the pros. I think what they've done is fill the hole that USA Cycling couldn't right or didn't know how to right. Usa Cycling was so late to the game on gravel that they just entirely missed the boat. Right. You have their attempt at a gravel world championships. That's just fallen flat. Kind of like UCIs. Yeah, there's a brilliant story out there some guys that showed up to a USA Cycling world's qualifier in Arkansas. The three of them were the only people in their category and they qualified for worlds in Italy.
Ryan:Oh, it's like Kona. Yeah, So they went.
Alan:Yeah, they're national champions so they went. Yeah. So I think lifetimes definitely fill that hole that USA Cycling couldn't. And for the pros, at that pointy end, hey man get after it.
Ryan:Yeah, i'm all in on that, right? Do you think the pro field should be bigger, because it was 30 last year? is it the same, or I think they made it a little bigger? right, It's bigger, but not by many, yeah, not by.
Alan:It's not a lot bigger, so it's still pretty exclusive It is. It's an application to get into the Lifetime Grand Prix series For the second year in a row. They rejected my application again and I don't understand why.
Ryan:Ryan, do you think that there's some grounds for lawsuit here for discrimination?
Alan:Look, i think that there's. There is a documentary in the making of, you know, gravel dads at this Lifetime Grand Prix series. That would have the people captivated but, they didn't buy it. I mean.
Ryan:I don't know if it's an age discrimination or because of where you're from your accent.
Alan:Yeah, that must be an immigrant thing.
Ryan:It must be, yeah, yeah.
Alan:Yeah, but no, look the pros at the pointy end of that is just it's awesome to watch. What's awesome to see are sort of all these roadies coming over from the world tour and, you know, getting a real sort of experience not necessarily the one they thought they were going to get. Kelly Bouss there and I were chatting last night about Conor Dunn from GCN, irish National Road Champion, and then came over to do the 200 with certain expectations in his head and it destroyed him.
Ryan:I mean, but I think that's such an event in such a distance, that's not something that should be your first time.
Alan:No.
Ryan:I mean like, yeah, I think I think I know what to do here. I mean jumping in and doing one of the other ones I think is much more realistic with. But I mean they're coming to the Super Bowl, right, Yeah, And there's more to it than riding a bike at that event. Yeah, Oh, and there was crappy weather, Yeah.
Alan:Mud roads, and we'll get into all that here.
Ryan:So do you I mean with the Lifetime series, and you have say I think it's like 35 or 40 is how deep the pro categories are? Yeah, Do you think it should be like 60 or do you think 40 is?
Alan:enough. I think 40 is a good number because what they did this year was they had the pro start before everybody else. There was a lot of noise and and Payson did a podcast on it and his you know his view is hey man, we're all like they're racing together and that's part of it. But they did. I mean they had to put a few rules in place. You know you can't have a you know Irish guy from Oklahoma and stuck in the middle of these guys trying to rip it at 25 miles an hour.
Ryan:I think that's just for safety. Yeah, that's really having those weekend warriors trying to be who they're not Right. They're going to cause problems. Yeah, i mean, and these people's careers and financial life is on the line. Yep, you need to let them have their own event.
Alan:Yeah, the minute there's serious cash prize money in it, you need to let them go. I agree, give them a head start, let them go do their thing.
Ryan:Yes, yeah. Well, that makes it more fair to everybody. Yep On their end, yeah, which is, i think, great.
Alan:Yeah, the flip side of that is where they still don't have it figured out is that finish line shoot. So you had Yeah, i want to talk to you about that They had folks sprinting like Well Keegan in the seven up men's finish. And you had, you know, Jim Bob from you know.
Ryan:Tennessee rolling in you know it was 50 miler eight hours later. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alan:Mixing it up in there in the sprint.
Ryan:Ok, so let's jump into some of the nuances of unbound, yeah, and let's just go into that race. So, like continuing with the theme of things, do you think they should have different finishing shoot?
Alan:So for people that don't know, it's just one finishing shoot, it's one finishing shoot for everybody, whether you're a 350, all the way down to the 50.
Ryan:And so finishing up that same straight. When the pros are coming in at, they meet up with all the age groupers pretty far out on the course, but there's the full road, so they have plenty of room to get past people and do their thing. But the finishers shoot when they're sprint finish and they're busting 1,200, 1,300 watts, and there's seven of them deep. Yeah, but little sketchy. It's a little sketchy, yeah, but do you? how do you do a finishers shoot though? And because it's on the same road, it is, and the road ain't that big.
Alan:Yeah, and I don't know what the right answer there is, but they can't do the same thing next year And somebody's going to get hurt.
Ryan:Yeah.
Alan:I mean somebody, you know these guys there's going to be more money put into it. I guarantee you, next year prize money goes up And so there's going to be more. you know sprint finishes where it's like, hey, you're in my way and I don't care, right, yeah.
Ryan:And if anyone hasn't seen Keegan's power profile, oh, it's unreal for the whole entire race. Unreal And the fact that there was still seven of them together. Yeah, Yeah. It's stupid. Yeah, i mean stupid. So go Google it, find it. I can try to find it and put it in the show notes of this, because it is wild.
Ryan:Yeah, the amount of power that those guys put out And then for seven of them to stay together. Yeah, it's ridiculous. Yeah, okay. So what do you think about the men starting and then the women starting having two separate stars for the pros on that side? Yeah, that's so. It's because you saw it first hand, all the drama last year.
Alan:Yeah, i saw it first hand then in its steamboat, got to experience it in first hand, with the drama that unfolded with. You know, lauren, to crez, to Cresna I would get her name wrong of you know, hey, is her team of males pulling her, you know? is that against the rules? No, you know. And then you get into the whole spirit of gravel. Right, no, i'm sans, but it's sort of like hey, you know it's. You do what you need to do, right, um, on the, on the women's starting separately from from the man, is it? is it good or bad? I think you're going to get differing opinions. Um, you know, i still, personally, i, i like chaos. I still think the whole thing should just be a mass start of that Really?
Alan:Let them all go and sort it out, let them all go.
Ryan:And just if you're strong enough to stay on the draft of the guys and they're strong enough, yeah, and some of those women are blowing those guys out of the water. Yeah, cause some of the women caught out the pros.
Alan:Yeah, men's field, yeah, and you have, you know, and some of those, a lot of those women in the pros were pulling some of those men for a really long time. So you think they should just let it all rip, just let the chaos go.
Ryan:Oh, my God, just let it go. So what's your thought on arrow bars?
Alan:Uh, you mean gravel hand positioning system? Oh, I like that.
Ryan:I like that. That's a beautiful way to put it. Yeah, Um you know it's.
Alan:I think they they banned them this year for the pros, um and like. There's all sorts of stories out there of you know steamboats. One example of where there was a conversation Why did they ban them? Same as hydration packs of um uh. so the arrow bars do give an advantage. There is no denying, but there's no advantage if everyone has them. Uh, uh, exactly.
Ryan:Right.
Alan:Yeah, So if I want to use them and you don't?
Ryan:that's your fault, uh-huh Yeah.
Alan:Yeah.
Ryan:That's my fault for being stupid and not using them Right. It was the same with uh hydration packs. Right.
Alan:Hey, are we stopping at the feed zone? You can You? uh, yeah, You make your choice.
Ryan:I'm doing what I want to do. Yeah, i'm going to carry this extra five pounds on me. Yep, you didn't say anything about let's make it or all the everybody's bikes the same way, right, i think it's part of racing.
Alan:I guess part of strategy.
Ryan:Yeah, i think it's part of like your game plan, yep, and I. I mean that's like saying, well, everybody's buy, everybody has to run the same tires and same wheels, right, the?
Alan:minute. You put money on the line as prize money. You do you, i'll do me A hundred percent.
Ryan:Yeah, If it's. I mean yeah, I mean because they're doing other things that have given marginal gains over their competitors. Yeah, And that's fair. Yeah, And arrow socks Yeah, everybody can do it. Yep, so get on it. I think they should be allowed. Yeah, and it's not a safety issue for the pros.
Alan:No, it's not All those. All those guys and girls are top class bike handlers, If anybody should be illegal for it. It should be in the yes, yes, yeah, yeah, you know there's a reason that everybody gets pissed when a tri-grouch shows up to a group ride. Yes, yeah, so then you throw gravel, go to the back, yes, They throw gravel into the mix, it's even sketchier.
Ryan:But you never hear of people wrecking on their arrow bars. Nope, never.
Alan:Nope, yeah, and I've used them in a lot of bike packing races and they're phenomenal in that.
Ryan:For sure.
Alan:Just a different sort of position to get way off your hands.
Ryan:It's comfortable.
Alan:Yeah, they are useful. For sure You should feel comfortable on a tri bike. No thanks, Yeah.
Ryan:Just saying No, I think they should be allowed fully.
Alan:Yep, okay, yep, yep.
Ryan:So let's get into all of the fun drama that happened. Oh boy. Well first, before we get into that, let's talk about our two legends that just did it. Yeah, chad and Rob in the XL. So I finally listened.
Alan:I got to listen to the podcast and it's awesome. Those boys, yeah.
Ryan:Rob's a freak Rob, so Rob is one of those.
Alan:It's just. it doesn't make sense, He does not.
Ryan:That guy's good at everything, uh-huh, anything that's endurance based, he's good at it. Yeah, it's wild, yeah, but yeah, we had an episode that we did with those two. So if you haven't listened to it, go listen to it and you can get all the nitty-gritty details. Yeah, but would you do the 350? So I've done it once, okay, a really long time ago. So it would have been like the first year Yeah.
Alan:It was the first or second year. Yeah, i think there was maybe 12 of us total. Okay, perfect weather conditions And I took a really long time to do it. Mm-hmm, i slept for about four and a half hours inside of the road. You did it more like a bike packing situation.
Ryan:I did it, i did it.
Alan:I did it. I did it, so I had to race it to be clear.
Ryan:I did not. I think I should be done.
Alan:Yeah, race it. And we had perfect conditions. You know, it was wonderful, wonderful time, mm-hmm. We had that rare year where it was not hot. Oh, we had cloud cover most of the day.
Ryan:Oh dream, Oh, it was just-.
Alan:Don't go back, and that was I did it once. I'm like I never do an.
Ryan:IV Never, because it was perfect. You could only ruin it. Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah.
Alan:So, rob, it's sort of funny, it was pretty close, it was about four weeks. He's like hey, i think I want to go do this with Chad, because Chad being Chad, he's in his own head, right Of man. I don't know, i don't know. And so I reached out to some folks up there from the dirty cans of days.
Ryan:And I'm like hey Oh yeah, you got a shout out on that episode. Yeah, yeah, i am useful for some things. Thanks, rob, we found it.
Alan:Yeah. And they were like oh yeah yeah, yeah, i just tell them to hit us up and get us in. Mm-hmm, i legit thought Rob had a shot at a podium. For sure, for sure.
Ryan:I think he has it in him.
Alan:Yeah, if the conditions were better, i think he would have probably podiumed.
Ryan:Yeah, because this one, it was just pure luck.
Alan:Yeah, it really was. And that's our guy from Rule 3, taylor Lideen. So I had a chance to chat with him a little bit. So he won the XL last year, mm-hmm. And he was telling me look, man, just, i think it was the same thing when I talked to Chad about look it's, you know, we didn't know how much mud we had left to go And it just it mentally destroyed them all For sure. And Taylor was the same way. Did he finish? He did not, he didn't.
Ryan:Pulled the plug. Man. there was a lot of big names that pulled the plug. Yep A lot.
Alan:And it was, i think, a lot of. It was just how much more of this mud is left.
Ryan:Well, yeah, because you don't want to be like I may have to walk for 30 miles.
Alan:Right.
Ryan:Or 200 more yards, right, you don't know, yeah, or you know, you can't let your mental just Yeah, just destroy them.
Alan:Yeah, that's rough.
Ryan:Because they all kind of quit around the same area.
Alan:They did, and it's, you know, it's like Arkansas high country. Last year There was a guy pulled the plug mile I think, it was like 990. Oh, He had 30 miles ish left to go, just mentally spent. And it's one of those when you get to that point, and unless you're there, you really don't know, And he's just like I don't have anything. Oh my God, Yeah.
Ryan:Wild. Well so all the drama came. So in the XL they didn't get rain until at nighttime. That's when it got horrible for them. There's lots of stuff out there on YouTube or socials that you can find. Watch the vegan cyclist stuff. Last night I actually sent a screenshot to Chad and Robert in there, i sent them the same thing.
Ryan:Yeah, and I sent it to Chad and they're smiling in the picture as he rides by Chad's, like that was the first time I chain popped off and I was still happy, yeah, yeah, working on a bike. Yeah, and so I mean I think I follow the vegan cycle, so I like his stuff. He's entertaining. He's an entertaining character. Yep, i mean I think he was like way over the top on this one and like such a cry baby about a lot of things.
Alan:Well, part of that's because he trained his ass off because he was like I could legit get a podium.
Ryan:He's good.
Alan:He's good, he and he could have, but again, conditions had other, other ideas.
Ryan:But it's the way I look at it. I'm like it's fair for everyone. Yep, everyone's dealing with it. The guy, that one dealt with the exact same conditions you dealt with. You just dealt with it better or got luckier, yeah, one way or the other, that's fine. But you can't in my opinion, you can't be pissed at the course. Nope, because everybody's racing the same thing. Yeah, yeah. And I go back to my golf days. I'm like when it was super windy and miserable. Guess what? Everybody's still playing in it. Yeah, or the course is like brutally hard, yep. Or total junk, yeah, everybody's suffering the same, everybody's the same. Yeah, and you signed up for it. So, yeah, especially in gravel. That's why I don't race gravel. Yeah, i ride gravel because, well, for one, i have no chance of racing it. But I ride it because it's fun and enjoyable. But if I see that it's going to rain, i'm not going. No, yeah, and I don't care if I'd train for it.
Alan:Yeah, i'm not doing it. Yep, i've done my fair share of mud races over the years. I have no interest, yeah, at mid-sized land run dirty Kanso, and it was a mud race, and I'm not at that point where I'm like you know what If it's muddy.
Ryan:I might not do that. Yeah, i don't need an epic story. Nope, i got enough cool stories. Yeah, don't need anymore.
Alan:Nor do I need a $1,000 bike repair. Bike, yeah, i'm not destroying my bike?
Ryan:Yeah, no, and these bikes were destroyed, holy crap. People were rubbing holes in their frames. Yeah, like every component's gone.
Alan:Yeah, well, and the other thing that came out too. So they ran out of water and they were getting absolutely ripped for how it is That's bad And have bent like this, run out of water.
Ryan:That's bad.
Alan:Which they had lifetime, had planned properly for a okay, we'll have plenty of water at these stations. What they hadn't planned for was people using that water to clean their bikes. And so you had people coming into water stations like, hey, i'm legit, i had a water in there, we don't have any.
Ryan:That's scary. Yeah, that's bad. That's bad. Yep, that's really bad. I haven't heard that.
Alan:Yeah, oh, yep, and that was one of the big complaints that started coming out day of is you know? hey, is there anybody can bring water out to mile such and such? Yeah, that's a big one.
Ryan:Yep. So let's get into the 200, because that's the, that's the apex race, that's the one that all the pros are in and that they're known for. Yep, there was a mud section about 11 miles in. That all has all the drama. It rained like the night before whenever the Excel was out there. Yep, they could have rerouted the course. This is where the drama comes in. They could have rerouted the course and they basically said nope, write it Yeah.
Alan:Deal with it. What are?
Ryan:your thoughts on it. I have my opinions on it.
Alan:Let's hear your opinions So my opinion is they need every year. they need to have a wet course right and a dry course right If it is raining, and that either day before day of this is the course we're doing, because it's not going to be as muddy. Are you still going to get some mud and dirt? A million percent. but they need to have two courses prepared beforehand And my understanding is they actually did in this case.
Ryan:So they had a rewrite available to them. They just didn't decide to do it And that mud section wasn't like 10 miles long, i mean it was fairly short. Yeah, i think what the 200 people, what they ended up walking like it was six miles, which is which is a lot, that's a lot of walking and pushing a bike, still a lot Mud and Waste, deep grass like yep, but you're signing up for this wild, crazy gravel adventure in the middle of nowhere, kansas like If that's the vibe, then that's the vibe, yeah.
Alan:But it's still like a vegan cyclist had a great point He doesn't pay for any of his bikes or bike parts, mm-hmm. So for him he's like, yeah, i.
Ryan:I, i pay for it, uh-huh, and I know the risk that's involved with that. Yeah.
Ryan:I mean think of all the mid-souths that have been nasty and brutal. Yep, and everybody goes to him still and they all talk about is the great. It's so crazy, blah, blah. Like I Choose, i don't care if I've been trained for it. That was my a race. I'm not doing it because I'm not destroying my equipment. Yeah, the mud at mid-south is worse than the mud That's what I've heard because it the rock stick and it's just, yeah, destroys everything. But I make that choice. Right, i'm not gonna do it. Yeah, you make the choice that you are gonna do it and you have to deal with the consequences. That's my opinion. Yep, i'm like you signed up for it. You didn't have to show up to the start line.
Alan:Yeah, everybody starts with a chance to win and everybody starts with the same course conditions.
Ryan:I agree, and it's it's if you don't want to destroy your bike, then don't do it.
Alan:Yeah, it's life, man, you got to navigate through whatever it throws at you.
Ryan:I, i just, i don't feel sorry for people whose bikes are destroyed or they didn't have the race They wanted to, because I'm like, when you deal with an event that is subject to mother nature, yeah, the pros and the cons, yeah, and you know and this isn't new for unbind or gravel Right, but it's new because there's so many more people watching it right and and there are folks that are going to those things with $12,000 bikes 100% yeah going.
Alan:Hey, my repair bills 1500 bucks Oh you got 12,000 dollars.
Ryan:Yeah, you got $12,000 bikes. Yeah, you can afford it. What?
Ryan:a nice works crux fully loaded and you know, like I have a, i feel like it's a nice gravel bike, but I know it's gonna get destroyed. Yeah, my mountain bike It's. I feel like it's nice. It's destroyed. Yeah, you're gonna hit rocks with it. Yeah, and that's just part of it. Yeah, and that's. I understand that. And it, like it, does hurt your soul. Yeah, when you drop a bike on and get a big chunk out of it and things get broken and messed up, it hurts. But it's like you're doing stuff off-road, man, what do you expect? Yeah, right on the road, if you want it to stay perfect. Yeah, i don't know. That's my opinion on it. No, i 100% agree, but I do like. I do like your Option of having a little course.
Alan:I think that's a course dry course option. So little sidebar. When unbind was happening We actually went up to Wyoming to do a race up there called the Dead Suite and they actually had a wet course and dry course option.
Ryan:Hmm, so that's a great idea. Yeah, i think more people will start doing that.
Alan:I do too, that basically they send out a notice sort of you know, like an hour or two before The start, saying which course they're going to do. So download both, both, and then they tell you we're doing this one. Yeah, i think it's brilliant. Yeah, that's a great idea. Yeah, really I want to get into that.
Ryan:Yeah, ride that you guys did after we do talk about the unbound so well. And then The race itself. There's lots of videos that you can watch for the results. The men's race was Amazing seven up sprint, super cool tax going left and right. I'm Keegan wins again.
Ryan:He destroys these guys and I'm not sure who's gonna be able to beat him. I think fister wall is the only one that can on a mountain bike course. He's the only one that can rival him day in, day out. Yep for one. They train together and ride together all the time. But, yeah, he's the only one that's coming close Yep, on a regular basis.
Alan:Yeah, his power I put is just insane.
Ryan:It's a nutty and the women's race bit of a surprise there.
Alan:I thought super cool. Yeah, I thought Sophia would have had it locked up, but Yeah, and I listened to Payson's podcast.
Ryan:Yeah with the unbound recap, and so if you haven't listened to that or don't know who pays, as it's the venture stash is the name of it You can scroll through half first half the podcast and listen to the interview with the female winner. Yeah, i cannot think of her name. I'm Carolyn Schiff Yeah she's German Super cool story. I don't want to ruin it If you want to go listen to it. Really cool story, yeah, but what are your thoughts on Sophia?
Alan:So I got to spend a little bit of time with her last year at rule of three. I did. she's a former Olympian, she's she's legit, she's as real as it gets. Yeah, hi, and Insane mountain bike skills like super fast.
Ryan:Her and Keegan are still dating right.
Alan:Yep, yeah, and I don't know if her, you know whatever point she's at in her training just yet, or it may again have just been course conditions, right, that's the unknown factor, mm-hmm. So it that I think the women's series is gonna be fascinating to watch I think there's gonna be a lot of back and forth. You have Sarah Sturm. It took she's great. She is awesome, like Her personality is incredible.
Ryan:Yeah, she, she mean does she train?
Alan:kind of, but she'll tell you she doesn't right. Yeah, and she just goes out and rides her bike.
Ryan:Mm-hmm, yeah, i think there's a lot more that she doesn't let out, that she's like Troy, right, Yeah, Troy's like I don't know man, i don't know what is that Is that high numbers? I don't know, It's three hundred eighty watts high.
Alan:I don't know it's my heart rate 170. Is that a lot Troy thing? ever shut up, you know what you're doing. Yeah, i don't want to hear it out of you. You may not do structured training but you do structure training.
Ryan:Yes, Yeah or you're definitely not telling anybody. Yeah, she hit that, but she has such a smiley, bubbly personality, which is so great. Yep, yeah, do you do you? Sophia is a very polarizing Personality. She is in the lifetime series that was on the six part series from last year. It's on YouTube. Highly recommend everyone watching. Yeah, she does not come across well. No, she and she's a type, a athlete man Type, in every possible way. Uh-huh, she does not come across as a very pleasant human.
Alan:No, it is the. This is my goal and I'm going to set out to do it, and if you're in my way, i will run you over?
Ryan:Mm-hmm. Yeah, she doesn't sound like she makes a lot of friends out there. No, and then listen into this episode. Yeah, she definitely does not make friends and definitely turns more people off. Yeah, i think she's gonna have a really tough time with sponsors. As long as she's a specialized will be okay, because they don't care about anything besides winning. You're right, big red will take care of her. But there's gonna be a time when she's not the top and well, and her personality may not be the best for sponsors.
Alan:Yeah, what I think will start to play all right throughout the year is you'll have these other ladies start to group up yep, 100%. And when it comes to Yeah it's hey. you made your bed, you got a lion.
Ryan:Yeah, they'll just over and over attack her. Yeah, for sure. Take turns. Yeah, they're in the heart, i don't care who wins, long as they hurt Yep, that's 100% what's gonna happen.
Alan:Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Ryan:Yeah, that's it. I mean, it makes for there's got to be a villain, oh, there has to be. It makes for a much better entertainment.
Alan:Really does.
Ryan:Yeah, yeah yeah, if everybody's happy and everybody gets along, then yeah. No, nobody's getting better, and yeah, just yeah, yeah, yeah Is there.
Alan:Anything else you want to add? on unbound, i started out all the oaky's that went up there this year. I know and I'm not going to get all of them. You know the ones I know. Like Tiff Cotton, she went up there to do the hundred. That was her first one, I think right, And first hundred gravel and she'll straight up tell you. you know she enjoys riding gravel, but, man, it scares her and she did it. And for her, and in that type of a course for your first time, that's rough.
Ryan:Yeah, what an experience for your first time. Yeah, good, awesome.
Alan:And then I know Steven Schmiddey did the 50 and I think he was top 10 in it, cool.
Ryan:Well, a shout out to him for Wachtal Challenge. Yeah, i had that written down. He won the single speed, yeah, and then and Rob, speaking of the freak himself he won. He won the overall on the gravel side. So both of them had results earlier this year. Yeah, schmiddey's the most unassuming strong guy on a bike because he never says a word. Right, you can say hi to him and he still may not say a word, and then he's just gone.
Ryan:Yeah, like wait a second, he just hunched over those bars and pedals away. Yeah, yeah, yeah, good for him. I didn't realize he did so well, yeah, and I think, corey.
Alan:White was up there too, Brandon Wilmas was new to it, and there were a handful of others. Kelly, Bouser.
Ryan:Gary Miller went up into the 50. That was his first time doing it. Oh nice, he's from Chickashay, he does he ups put on the that Chickashay T-shirt ride?
Alan:Yeah, they're Rock Island one, yeah, yeah.
Ryan:He ups, put that on Awesome And I think he was doing really well and had some cramping issues towards the end, but I think that was his first. He did the 50, i believe. Yeah, yeah.
Alan:Yeah, The 50 mile course had zero mud. Oh dream.
Ryan:Zero, i would go up and do the 50. That's the only one I would have any interest in.
Alan:Yeah, Yeah, Kelly was telling me after he finished there's a big climb they do. Called the judge and he was sort of watching on Strava and he was like sitting third overall or fourth And I was like holy crap, like I'm beating all these pros, will their times hadn't uploaded? Oh.
Ryan:So they all started popping in and he started slowly sliding down Reality sets. You're like, OK, they went twice as fast.
Alan:Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's telling us. Last night he averaged, i think, 12 miles an hour up a thing and, like Keegan, was like 16 or 17.
Ryan:And that's so much more than just five miles an hour.
Alan:Oh, just ridiculous.
Ryan:Yeah, it's not just five miles an hour more. It's like 150 percent more.
Alan:Yeah, yeah.
Ryan:Man, that's good. So we had a lot of good representation up there. Yeah, good. Well, before we get onto your big ride that you just did, let's talk Rula 3 real quick.
Alan:Yeah, rula 3 this year was interesting because all the heavy hitters went down to gravel locos So it was sort of a I don't want to say next level down, because there was certainly still a lot of people that were out there. It wasn't as deep, it wasn't as deep And it got interesting in that Taylor the dean of thought about one, the XL, so he attacked off the front at mile 10.
Ryan:And you know this because you did the grace coverage.
Alan:Yeah, and it was. It was pretty cool because, you know, we straight up told Taylor, hey, we are not taking this seriously at all, and neither are you, and so he he spent a lot of time just chatting to us, as he was, that's hilarious, yeah, and so it tells you how freakishly strong they are. It's crazy, it's crazy. So we were asking him you know what Taylor Swift songs? he likes And he's like I don't really listen to Taylor.
Ryan:Swift, but you should, oh gosh. So he was just having a good ride.
Alan:Yeah, and, and you know we were we were jumping back and forth between him and really the second group behind him that was, there was probably eight, ten folks in the man's race and they just could not get organized to go chase him down. And so there was, the gap was somewhere between four to five minutes And with about 25, 30 miles ago, we were giving him updates of, hey, your, your gap is four and a half minutes And so far, well. And then he just put the gas on And so the last section, a single track that he got to. We timed that. He was almost eight and a half minutes ahead of that second group. Gosh, yeah, just destroyed them, which is awesome because he's a local, northwest Arkal.
Ryan:He's moved out there, yeah, from.
Alan:Arizona. Yeah, yeah, Him and him and his wife are great people. Yeah that's cool They got to meet them and chat with them.
Ryan:That's cool, yeah, and Andy does. I got to do it for the first time. You've been out there since day one.
Alan:Since day one.
Ryan:Yeah, i mean, i saw you slinging hot dogs in the park, so that was my first experience with Rule of Three. We took a handful. There was four of us that went out. We took the vans, we camped 100 percent the way to do it, yep, and I would have to say it's in my top three. Maybe events have ever done in my life of any kind of event, and it's not easy.
Alan:Oh my gosh, It's hard.
Ryan:It is hard, yep, when I saw the course come out of the 50, when I saw the course come out, it was 44 miles I was like, eh, this kind of sucks, yeah, 44. And I will tell you, at mile 40, i turned to Saxby and I said I am so glad we don't have 10 more miles to go And there is no way in the world I could do 60 more. It's impossible. There is no way I could have done 60 more miles. It was those 44 miles were everything that I wanted that day For sure.
Alan:And the problem for us Ogie's going out there is the climbs. They're freaking brutal. They're nonstop when we're not used to them. Yeah, yeah, and steep, yeah, they're not like a sort of three or four percent, it's, you know, nine to 14 percent grade.
Ryan:Yeah, yeah, it's 12 percent And they're not super long, no, but they're just nonstop. It's a wall, yeah, and the single track was good and pleasant, but I like mountain biking, so that helps, yep, and nothing on the single track was scary or bad. You definitely need to pick your equipment wisely, yeah, and your tire pressure wisely, but man, it was so fun. The swag is stupid, yeah, and the party afterwards, amazing. Like I can't say enough about what he has done there and what that has been is highly recommend, and it's so.
Alan:it's so bizarre because it pulls the strangest people into it. The year before we had Lance Armstrong out there with some of his buddies racing it.
Ryan:It's wild, yeah, and it's so fun. Yep, so fun. The party is great, the atmosphere is great, the swag is off the charts. Yeah, the course. I mean, i don't know how it gets better.
Alan:Yeah, i well, i mean, i think it's just a different variation on that course every year, with slight changes, and you know we'll be on some stuff and I'll text Andy, and it's like what were you thinking here I don't know how they piece it all together, because it's just like it zigzags everywhere.
Ryan:Yeah, cross open fields, cross, like I mean. I don't know how they put it together.
Alan:Yeah, there was one point where you were following Taylor, it was on one of the dimes, a long dine, health section And and we're probably doing 3035 and it's a rough road and he's pulling away from us.
Ryan:Because like all right, well, i'll see where we belong.
Alan:Yeah.
Ryan:Anything else you want to hit on rule three.
Alan:I know some of the local again.
Ryan:Oghiz did well out there, Stacey Patton did really well, she did really well, she got, she got fourth, i think so overall, yeah, and the female and the 50. And the 50.
Alan:Yep, yeah, and I know a lot of the like the Tulligan Oklahoma Flyer kids that go out there. Tanner's kid Isaiah, yeah.
Ryan:He did phenomenal as well. I feel like somebody else had a decent result. Rob did OK, but I know that he had some mechanical issues. He had a lot of a bunch of plugs in those tires when he came back in.
Alan:Hey Rob, old pro tip If you've got plugs and tires and they're worn, it's probably time to replace them.
Ryan:It's time. Yeah, it's time. Yeah, because I know a bunch of guys went out there with like aspirations of good results. Yeah, just had some mechanical issues. Yeah, anything else you want to touch on that?
Alan:one.
Ryan:All right, let's talk. The last one that I have really highlighted here and if something else comes up, it does is the big adventure that clearly the whole herd from Oklahoma went up to do. I mean, it wasn't just you, no it was, and you went to do the Dead Sweet.
Alan:Yeah.
Ryan:What and where.
Alan:So it is a race up in Sheridan, wyoming, and really it's a lot of the team warm up guys sort of put us onto this of, hey, you need to come up and do it, you need to come up and do it, it's awesome. It's awesome. Well, it was always the same weekend as unbind or 24 hours in the canyon Right Gotcha, and so I was always either pulled to go do one of those two races. And this year our heart and a lot of those guys were like, oh man, you need to come up. And so we sort of lucked into Kim D's relatives actually live up in Sheridan And so we lucked into the phenomenal homestead place to stay in And we went up, stayed up and just north of Longmont and went on up to Sheridan. There's a lot of climbing up there, there's a lot of climbing.
Ryan:It's called the mountains Yeah.
Alan:Yeah, but just it's in and around sort of the foothills of the Big Horn Mountains, so you don't do any real high-end mountain climbs, but there's enough that you're like hey, this is a lot.
Ryan:There's giant rollers.
Alan:Yeah, little pictures are beautiful And the weather turned out just spectacular. We thought there was rain the day before And we thought, man, because we went out to check out certain sections of the course And it was fairly muddy on the Friday And we're like this is going to be awful tomorrow, But it worked out really, really well.
Ryan:How many of you guys went, there was a bunch.
Alan:Yeah, all in from Oklahoma. There was probably 20 to 25 folks who went up there.
Ryan:It's crazy, that is wild.
Alan:But it's very grass roots race. How long is it? They have different options. So they had 100. They had a 62 and a 40. Ok, we I myself and a few others were signed up for the 100. And then weather came in and were like, let's just do one of the shorter ones. And so we did that. And I think I was telling you, you start it And you're like OK, i'm racing this. And then you start looking at a ride, i just want to ride this, to take it all in.
Ryan:I highly recommend people looking up images from that ride. Just spectacular, just spectacular. It looks fake. It's so beautiful Yeah.
Alan:And that was it's very it's expansive, It's the best way to describe the scenery up there Just very expansive And you'll like all day we could see over the top of Bighorn Mountains, just like storms. These storms probably 100 miles away And we're like it's going to rain on us, it's like no, just stays over there.
Ryan:Yeah. Just parked over those mountains, it's beautiful. Yeah, did anybody have any results, or was everybody up there just hanging out?
Alan:I know some of the warm up folks had some results. I think Rhonda Earhart did well in the women's OK, there was the infamous I think the infamous tandem was there with Chris and Todd Nice I know they did well. Audrey did well too in her race. So there were a few results. But it's interesting in that. So, as we were probably 20 miles from the finish and the pointy end of the 100 caught up to us and I got them ahead, i'm like, well, i'm just going to join in with these guys and see how it goes. And they were actually really, really cooked. So I'm sitting in with there's a group of eight and I get to the front of that group and I said, hey, i'm not part of your race, so I'm not pulling. So I just pulled back off again. But those guys were not going as fast as I thought they would because they were cooked.
Ryan:Was it a ton of climbing? Yeah, yeah, a ton of elevation, a ton of climbing Interesting.
Alan:Karen and I went, We rode, We took the group out on the Friday And we just rode around the area And then we came up to I think it's called the red grade. Climb average for 1.9 miles is 12% Average Miserable It was awful. Awful.
Ryan:Oh, was there very many climbs like that, or was that the worst one?
Alan:There were two climbs like that, wow, and one was right at the start that people were just walking their bikes.
Ryan:Oh my gosh, That's a reality check. They were really. And you're like, oh, I have 100 miles of this.
Alan:Yeah, and coming from Oklahoma and you have your bike.
Ryan:you're from Oklahoma And you have that thing you're like oh crap, It's one that one buy isn't so cool.
Alan:That was yeah. I decided hey, my 42 tooth on the front is too big for this.
Ryan:Yeah, i know I got a 2-buy And people ask I'm like 2-buy on gravel. in my opinion is the right option.
Alan:I would agree with that, because if I take my bike outside of Oklahoma I'm pretty limited.
Ryan:Yes, yeah, unless you have a mullet built. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, if you're outside of Oklahoma, you're probably going to need a 2-buy.
Alan:Yeah, she has a mullet build on her Abel, so she's got a 40 up front and a 10-52 in the back, and so we hit those climbs and she's just spinning away.
Ryan:Hey guys, yes, talking, that's shocking And.
Alan:I'm just sucking wind and. Sasquatching. And I'm like why are you? How are you talking?
Ryan:Yeah, That's awesome, so highly recommend that ride.
Alan:Yeah.
Ryan:Yeah, that was a cool event. Before we wrap up, i guess we should talk crit racing, since that's kind of the thing around here.
Alan:So that is an interesting top. So wheeler crits have exploded And they're phenomenal. If you've never raced one, go give it a shot. Yeah, Go watch, Just go watch and hang out. I know Evan came down McQuirk and raced a couple of them as well. Dude, that guy. It's disgusting how fast he is now It's unbelievable.
Ryan:You go watch. I mean because the guys that are racing the A race at that are fast dudes. They're not slow, And whenever he's tired of riding with them, he just rides away. And then maybe somebody joins up with him and they ride out front and they'll get about a half lap up And then when he's done riding with them, he just rides away from them and then just laps everyone.
Ryan:It's wild how fast that dude is And he's doing amazing things around. His episode will come out in about a month. So July 15 is when his episode will come out And we talk more in the details of the races he's doing all over the country and the results he's having. But man, that dude is on another level.
Alan:Yeah, he's got a really good trajectory in front of him as well.
Ryan:Big time for sure.
Alan:So we were crits of exploded, which is really good And I think you know crit racing is sort of you know short, sharp bursts And I've never figured out. So road racing in Oklahoma sort of died away.
Ryan:Yeah, it went away. They used to have a series. When I was getting into cycling stuff, there used to be a great series Yeah, that was. There was a time trial At a draper. Yeah, there was a time trial one week and then there was a road race one week and then they would do a crit somewhere one week, yeah, and they had the firehill crits, like it was. So when you had the time trial series at the overholster, which was cool, yeah, it was great And all that's gone away.
Alan:Yeah, part of me wonders if in Oklahoma and I were just saturated and cross has gone away.
Ryan:In Oklahoma City I know in Tulsa it's still there, There's still some, but not like it was.
Alan:No, yeah, and in the fall, like you were racing cross every weekend.
Ryan:Yeah, everywhere It was cool Yeah.
Alan:Yeah, it's it for sure. has died away.
Ryan:I think in Oklahoma City area. I think Tanner keeps it going in Tulsa when he does a great job up there. Yeah, in Oklahoma City he lost all the guys that were putting it on Paul Drumming when they were last Drumming a lot. Yeah, Sheridan still involved, but he doesn't do it. He's kind of a lone man left. You know Tony was helping pitch in Yep But all those guys have kind of got out of it And so it's just died. Yeah.
Alan:And it's interesting, like I mean, you started to see it, so you know again you can blame gravel that a lot of people started taking those cyclocross bikes and going hey, i'm going to go out here and start riding some dirt roads and became the cool thing.
Ryan:Yeah, cross became the not cool thing, right?
Alan:It's like yeah, yeah, unfortunately, yeah, but the Wheeler series has been great.
Ryan:I know they're not doing an overall winner like series winner and stuff this year, But Dempsey, those guys are doing great out there.
Alan:Yes, ifuentes, yeah, yeah, so strong. Cast of characters.
Ryan:You still, you still get the old timers of Chad gets on the front and mixes it up sometimes When he races When he races, yeah, yeah, and so you still have some of those guys that get on the front and mix it up. But it's, it's a whole new cast of.
Alan:I think it's awesome to always go down there every once in a while, because if you want to really see where your fitness is go race a crit, you'll learn.
Ryan:Yeah, you'll learn. You're not as fast as you think.
Alan:You think, man, I've been doing some intervals, I think I'm good, And then you're like Oh no, I did the.
Ryan:Tuesday night ride this week at Capitol, yeah, so they just have it like in the in between series, in between the two series. I knew I was going to get shelled. I didn't know how fast I was going to get shelled, it was quick, yeah. And then I was like, well, i'll just ride with the second group. And then I got shelled from the second group. And then I was like, okay, well, i'll just hang out with the stragglers, yeah. And we kind of pieced, milled a little line together. But dude, those boys are so fast Yeah.
Alan:So fast. What's cool to see now in Oklahoma City is the sheer number of weekly night rides that are taking place. I did want to talk about that Pick any night of the week And there's two to three different rides going on right. And it's phenomenal to see Right. It used to be. you know, five years ago you would struggle. It'd be like so it's Tuesday night. What are we doing? I guess we're going riding by ourselves.
Ryan:Yeah, there is a. What's the app? Ride Alert? Ride Alert Yep, most of them are on there. Most of them are on there And you have them. You have several in Norman, i know. Lazy Circles does one, yep. The Bike League of Norman does a couple Yep, there's one. There's a gravel ride on Thursday nights down in the Goldsby. Yeah, goldsby has one. I think there's some up in your area that you do a gravel ride, yeah, yeah.
Alan:And then you have rides Tuesdays, mondays.
Ryan:Thursday and Guthrie, and those are all just gravels Right And then on the road you have, i mean Monday night, this.
Alan:Monday night you have Chicken and Pickle, you have the Bike Lab ride And there's a bunch of others. And there's all of these ladies groups as well. Those are popping up and doing great numbers.
Ryan:They have that women's group that does like every other week or something like that.
Alan:And then Capital has a women's group that does once a month and it's super chill, like for fun, yep, and then you have the Wheeler dealer, so you have an alternate Waddenstice between Capital and Wheeler dealer where they're doing ladies rides, yeah.
Ryan:And they're super cool, chill. Everyone's welcome Great way to learn, get comfortable, meet other ladies riding, yeah, and I think there's a hot zone women's rides on Thursdays There is, there's a thirsty, hot women's ride And I think tonight they're actually coming out to Hill Jam to ride out there.
Alan:But yeah they are. They throw down, they throw down, they throw down.
Ryan:And then yeah, And then gosh. I mean I think there's, I think there's at least two or three rides every single night in the Metro, which is super cool. Yeah, it's awesome. So pick your poison. Yeah, You want it to be fun, or do you want it to be hard? and you can find it? Yeah, Yeah, that is cool. And I know up in Tulsa they have crits And I'm not familiar with them. I didn't look up the results, but I don't know who's putting those on. I don't remember.
Alan:It's the team that's putting it.
Ryan:Sentier. Sentier is putting them on, I think, And so and they've had they have a series, just like Wheeler And I know a lot of the local guys go up there and do some of those. But and had the Oklahoma City guys have had good results. But I think that's been a great tune up for the Tulsa guys as well.
Alan:Yeah.
Ryan:Also tough and stuff like that. So Kurt racing is hot and heavy in Oklahoma.
Alan:Yeah, it is, and I think you know. Again, it's all about the exposure, right, is? you know?
Ryan:Kurt racing has a lot of exposure in the US now And you know it'll stay front and center for a while, i think so I think, if I mean I think this is a good place for the wrap up, unless you have something else, No, I think you know kind of covered them all.
Ryan:Yeah, we didn't get into the details of results because we're kind of like playing catch up for six months here because, throwing this together, going into the next couple of ones that we do over the rest of the year, we'll do a little bit more deep dive on results, maybe talking about races that are coming up. Yeah, a little bit more things like that. We can kind of get a little bit more into the weeds.
Alan:Yeah, we'll even look at specific people's Strava fitness profile, strava stock.
Ryan:And see how they're doing. I think I'm going to go KOM stocking, Oh yeah. I gotta find the lowest hanging fruit out there? Yes, maybe one that nobody's ridden since, like 2020, 2017, a little windoping.
Alan:Yeah, I get the right wind out of the size.
Ryan:Yeah, I'll do that, Yeah maybe that'll be my new mission. I'll be like the local, not fast guy that takes people's KOMs Yeah.
Alan:I'm not going to lie. One of my only KOMs I have left on Toilet Road. I got it right before I knew they were about to destroy that road. That Kani was, and so it's genius and nobody will ever be able to take it.
Ryan:Perfect, see it's not, it's smarter, not harder, exactly Smarter not harder. And most of them are windoped anyway, so I just got to wait for the ride.
Alan:Oh, they're a million percent windoped.
Ryan:Yeah, and I'm here for it. I'm all about it.
Alan:Awesome.
Ryan:Is there any races coming up that I know, like I said, the triathlon stuff is hot and heavy for the rest of the summer. Is there any? I don't, i mean, i know Wheeler starts back on the July 25th.
Alan:I don't know about the summer. That's going to be fun. Oh my gosh.
Ryan:Co-crit race in July and August. Yeah Yeah, there's no gravel locally.
Alan:It's not locally. I know steamboat and gravel worlds are typically the two big ones in August And I know there's a ton of folks going up there for those G3 kickoff in October, September, October and a September early October. There's a new course this year.
Ryan:Ooh At West. Really Yeah, so there are three or four of them Three. Which one did it replace?
Alan:Good question. Maybe there's four or not.
Ryan:Okay, we'll get back to you on that. Yeah, rake and Correct. We have some good ideas for the G3 series. Yes, we have some brilliant ideas, but yeah, the course at West.
Alan:If you're in the, you know the overlanding world. There's a famous road out there for off-roading.
Ryan:Mm-hmm.
Alan:That's perfect. Gravel riding. It's interesting, sandy, it's difficult, sounds terrible. Yeah, it's perfect.
Ryan:So anybody has events that we should cover or talk about, let us know. Yep, if people are pissed and don't like our opinions, send all those to GravelDoc on Instagram And I will reply to each and every one of them. And if you have praises, send those to me.
Alan:Yeah, yeah, awesome Thanks, buddy. Thanks for sharing it, see ya.