Instagram @chris_drummond
@bikeschoolacademy
Strap in as we journey through the fascinating life of the People's Champ, Chris Drummond. With an illustrious cycling career and countless championships under his belt, Chris is a force to be reckoned with. Not only does he share his amazing stories, but he also offers an in-depth look into his unique skill-based approach to mountain bike racing. It's a gripping tale of overcoming hurdles, acquiring necessary skills, and the sheer dedication it takes to be a National Champion cyclist.
But it's not just about Chris. We also delve into the Drummond family's remarkable involvement in the cycling world and their contribution to the Bentonville bike scene. With Vanessa Mama Drummond as their number one cheerleader, this family is truly cycling royalty. Hear about their incredible successes and their pivotal role in enriching the Bike School Bentonville, a community-centered organization devoted to promoting biking.
From transitioning from motocross to mountain biking to the frustrations of road racing and the thrill of cyclocross, Chris's journey is laden with challenges and victories alike. The experiences he shares not only provide an adrenaline rush but also valuable lessons for aspiring cyclists. And it doesn't end there; we explore the impressive journeys of rising stars, Chris's son, Ryan (RyRy), and Aubrey, a professional cyclist with a contract with the Austin Aviators. So, tune in for an exhilarating ride through the world of cycling with Chris Drummond and his cycling clan.
Instagram @chris_drummond
@bikeschoolacademy
Strap in as we journey through the fascinating life of the People's Champ, Chris Drummond. With an illustrious cycling career and countless championships under his belt, Chris is a force to be reckoned with. Not only does he share his amazing stories, but he also offers an in-depth look into his unique skill-based approach to mountain bike racing. It's a gripping tale of overcoming hurdles, acquiring necessary skills, and the sheer dedication it takes to be a National Champion cyclist.
But it's not just about Chris. We also delve into the Drummond family's remarkable involvement in the cycling world and their contribution to the Bentonville bike scene. With Vanessa Mama Drummond as their number one cheerleader, this family is truly cycling royalty. Hear about their incredible successes and their pivotal role in enriching the Bike School Bentonville, a community-centered organization devoted to promoting biking.
From transitioning from motocross to mountain biking to the frustrations of road racing and the thrill of cyclocross, Chris's journey is laden with challenges and victories alike. The experiences he shares not only provide an adrenaline rush but also valuable lessons for aspiring cyclists. And it doesn't end there; we explore the impressive journeys of rising stars, Chris's son, Ryan (RyRy), and Aubrey, a professional cyclist with a contract with the Austin Aviators. So, tune in for an exhilarating ride through the world of cycling with Chris Drummond and his cycling clan.
What is up? Cycling Oklahoma? This is another rockin episode and one of my favorite people on the planet. Now that he knows that I said that about him, I'm gonna have to live that down because we are speaking with the People's Champ, mr Chris Drummond, and he won't for sure he's not gonna let it die that I just called him one of my favorite people, but he really is and really the entire family is just amazing and you'll hear a little bit about the entire family and how involved they are in cycling and how incredible they are.
Speaker 1:But I had the pleasure of spending the weekend in Bentonville and hanging out with the fam. Everybody but Aubrey. She was off racing and kicking butt in a pro crit races for like I don't know eight days, ten days, something like that. She is doing amazing things out there and just really a true representation of the entire Drummond family. Vanessa Mama Drummond is just heavily plugged in and involved in the Bentonville bike scene and is the number one cheerleader and supporter of all things bicycles to her family and to all the friends and the communities that they have lived in and been involved in. So it really truly is a team effort in the Drummond household to produce incredible people and incredible cyclists in all disciplines. So I mean, I really think I could do two or three, four episodes with the entire family and I would love to sit down with other members of the family in the near future and I really do have plans to do that. But Vanessa makes amazing chocolate chip cookies that we killed during this episode, so that was great and I can be purchased with chocolate chip cookies I'm pretty cheap like that. So she knew the way to my heart.
Speaker 1:But I had the great pleasure of spending the weekend with Chris and actually Rai Rai came out and rode with us as well, and Chris took me and Saxby out to help us with our training for Cape Epic, which I thought I was okay, like I truly know my skill set and it's okay on the mountain bike. After riding with Chris and Rai Rai for like three seconds, I realized how terrible I am and how far I have to go Watching them ride. The bike is just effortless and so fun looking and everything looks so just relaxed and just the flow of the trails and it looks so fun. And I'm back there holding on for dear life, trying not to put my face in the ground, which I did once this weekend While Chris was trying to tell me to do something. I did not do it and I ended up with a face full of gravel. So that was fun. But I can't thank Chris enough and Rai Rai enough for coming out and giving us some skills, training and helping us with some basic things and showing us how we can improve, and the low hanging fruit and just the free speed that's on the trail. So super cool to spend time with the family this weekend and enjoy their company and all the amazing things that they are doing and plugged into in Bentonville.
Speaker 1:I really want to recommend you taking a chance or taking some time and looking at Bike School Bentonville. The Drummans are heavily involved in this organization and the entire family is involved in this organization. But if you are going to Bentonville and you're taking the kids or you want to get them involved in mountain biking you live in Tulsa, you live in the Bentonville area you need to check this organization out. They are doing incredible things. You can sign the kids up. You yourself, as an adult, can go get one-on-one lessons or do some camps and some clinics that they put on. But what a great way to spend the weekend in Bentonville and have the kids go learn a skill and put them on trails and give them something that we don't have around here, not even close to anything like this in the Oklahoma area that I know of. But they also have the same for adults. So this is a great way for you to go out and practice your skills. So Bike School of Bentonville highly recommend you check out their website, follow them on Instagram. They're doing amazing things with their kids out there. They have an Academy side, which is the higher-end level kids that want to race hardcore in different disciplines, and then they have just the basic, or the basic Benton or Bike School of Bentonville, where they just, you know the kids go out and learn the basics and just kind of go out and have fun. So, but, like I said, they do have adult programs. Check it out. You go out there, get better, come back, crush the tour to dirt series or your friends who you don't tell that you're going to get skill training, and you come back and you're like I don't know what happened, I'm just faster. But that's my plug for Bike School of Bentonville. Highly recommend checking it out.
Speaker 1:But Mr Drummond is a one-of-a-kind, a true gentleman in every single way and I really, really appreciate his time this weekend. You are going to understand why we call him the People's Champ and that's how I've always known Chris and I don't know where that name came from, but knowing him from the bike shops, that's what people refer to him as and it was always funny. But when you hear how many state and national championships this man has won in the different disciplines, you'll get it. But we really truly just scratched the surface of Chris and all the things that him and his family have accomplished. So hopefully there will be another episode in the future. But this dude has won a ton of championships. When you hear the dedication that he puts in and what it takes to become a national champion in different two different disciplines, you'll understand the level of a commitment and just the true love for the bicycle that he has.
Speaker 1:So this is getting a little long, but I can't say enough great things about them. I really think you're going to enjoy this episode and just learning. I learned so much. There's so many things to learn about the mountain bike setup, your positioning, suspension. You know how you ride the bike, so hopefully you can get a little bit of knowledge out of this, but also learn a little bit more about Chris.
Speaker 1:He works at Allied. So Allied has amazing bikes. I was able to go through the factory one time with him, so he's working there. Rai Rai works there. He's plugged into the bike school, bentonville Plus. They are out crushing the trails and making results for themselves. So Rai Rai won the state championship, crit Race this weekend, aubrey's Out Race and as a pro all over the country and in Europe. And Vanessa is behind the scenes doing a lot of amazing things locally and nationally in the bike scene. So amazing family, great things to come from them, and I hope you enjoy this episode.
Speaker 1:Feel free to subscribe, please subscribe. Please leave reviews. Again, we're continuing to look for sponsors to help make this thing better and better and better, and we have some amazing ideas and things coming, but we need dollars to do that. So these dollars are not going into my pocket. These dollars are going back out into support and growing cycling in Oklahoma and improving the experiences and hopefully getting more people riding. So let me know if you have ideas, let me know if you have suggestions, but we're always looking for awesome people to interview and to talk to. But we do have some exciting things coming. So thanks again, and I hope you enjoy this episode. All right, mr Drummond, this is gonna be a good one, because you just won something that seemed to have some value in the world.
Speaker 1:To some so we'll get into that here in a little bit, but and I'll do a whole intro about you before to kind of give people an idea of who we are sitting down and talking to but I guess I would say the first way to start this was, I mean, give a quick idea of who you are and what's going on and then let's dive into how in the world you got into riding bikes.
Speaker 2:Chris Drummond. I'm cyclist coach, so race mountain bikes, road bikes, cyclocross, gravel, kind of anything on two wheels. I've got two kids that race, I've got a wife that's very involved in the scene and yeah, I mean we'll get into how I got into it and and all that.
Speaker 1:But I would say you have maybe like the number one support wife of all time when it comes to riding a bike. Maybe, yeah, I was talking to somebody about that this week or maybe last week, and I cannot remember who it was and we were talking about how, like, your whole, your whole, like existence, is around a bicycle in somehow some way Like and it's kind of been by design, I mean, between your job and your kids, are involved in bikes, and now Rai Rai works in the bike world and all the stuff and we're like and like the whole family is like she, like the wife's involved in everything, supportive of all the kids, going to all the things, like I mean it's the whole group is, yeah, fully loaded and committed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she, she definitely handles a lot, of, a lot of the things I don't want to handle. So we make a lot of big trips and do a lot of big races and she's handling all the stuff that you know, the logistics, the hotels and the cooking, like when we get there, the grocery shopping, like the stuff that's a little much for me to deal with along. You know it's getting, you know, at this point, other people's kids to races and their equipment dial.
Speaker 1:Because now she's involved in the bike school, correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, she, she pretty much runs a lot of the back end of it and like the whole, the whole program, not just the side I work with Cool and she works. She's working with USA Cycling now and a lot of stuff too and kind of integrating our program in in with that, because we know Bentonville is now the home of USA Cycling, for whatever that means. We're still figuring it out, but yeah, she's doing a lot of work with them also.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the whole, the whole crew is like fully invested.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Cool and we're in it. So how, where did you, where did you grow up at Like? Let's start at the very beginning and get to all the fun stuff.
Speaker 2:So I grew up in Oklahoma City, born and raised and I lived there and until we know, we moved to Tulsa.
Speaker 1:Where'd you go to high school at?
Speaker 2:Westmore High School.
Speaker 1:That's where B Money went right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we, brandon and I, actually we weren't friends, I was. I was kind of the same age as his brother, ok, but yeah, we went to same elementary school. I think we went to different middle schools you didn't know of each other. I didn't know Brandon, until I started racing bikes. Ok, but yeah, we were in the same elementary school all the way through and the same high school. It's kind of funny, but I never never, crossed paths with him.
Speaker 1:And then did you? Could you race motocross, or did you just ride? I raced, ok. Did you race motocross before bicycles or bicycles before motocross?
Speaker 2:I raced. I started racing motocross when I was seven.
Speaker 1:OK.
Speaker 2:And I raced, you know, until I was probably 16 or 17. It was my dad was like super low pressure with it.
Speaker 1:So it was, we did it Right, yeah, ok.
Speaker 2:So that's how I got into it. So, just him and I my brother never really raced, but, yeah, I'd like go on the weekends and be like him and all of his friends. And then I'd be the little kid tagging along and I just went and rode like everyone just rode for fun. We were every now, and then we'd get into racing. Then we'd be like, yeah, let's just ride. We'd ride on the weekends. And then, yeah, I got. I was probably like 15 or 16. When I started, like getting competitive with it because I'd go to race, but I just, I mean, I just rode around.
Speaker 1:Just rode, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then I started getting a little better and I was like, oh, this is fun, it's fun to win.
Speaker 1:So yeah, weird All that work.
Speaker 2:So then I just kept. You know I progressed really quickly from that point. So you know I was racing like the beginner class when I was 15 or 16. And then you know, within I would say maybe two years, like an immediate expert level, like it took off pretty quick because I'd been riding my whole life, I knew how to ride. It was just like figuring out how to go fast on a dirt bike, mm, hmm. And I did that pretty seriously like local pro level, not nothing national pro, just because we really could afford to to travel and do that.
Speaker 1:Is he your age? Yeah, I've raised him my whole life because I know he was really big into that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So we were, you know, I raced with him and there was, he was always faster than me, quite a bit faster than me. We got on big bikes like you know 125, 250s. We, you know, I kind of caught up to him a little bit there, but yeah, I've raced him since I was probably 10 years old. That's funny.
Speaker 1:And now we're still racing by. Simple Say what a random small world. I'd like to see cook on a big motorcycle and I need to do a podcast with him because I think it would be good and entertaining to listen to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so like my dad raced, his dad and his uncle and I think even his, his grandpa. That's funny.
Speaker 1:So it's like small world yeah.
Speaker 2:Like just the two generations. And yeah, there's a bunch of, there's a bunch of people there in the mountain bike scene now, maybe not as competitive or serious as we are, but ride a lot, do you?
Speaker 1:Because you got back into riding some before you. Was it when?
Speaker 2:you let before you was in Tulsa.
Speaker 1:Tulsa, yeah, I got back into it for a summer and it's fun, like it's.
Speaker 2:You know, like I watch it I was watching it before you guys got here Like I watch it all the time, I can follow it, like I still do it. But the reality of like how much time and money, it's such a big thing and it's such a big time investment to to like load up and go to the track and is there a track out here? There's one in Silo Springs.
Speaker 2:I think, I went out and watched a friend race. Yeah, it's just like it's a lot, it's just too much. And when I got back into it I was, you know, I had some some aspirations of doing some things and Like the kids weren't doing it, ryan was doing it like on a little mini bike. He'd go to the track and just like ride around. But I would like, anytime I wanted to go race, there was like a bicycle race the kids were doing, so that was going to be priority, so I would do that. And I found myself a lot of times riding like 80% because I'm like all right, I know how to go fast and I also know, you know, what could happen if it goes wrong. Like like it doesn't take much to end up on the ground on a dirt bike. Yeah, like really quick.
Speaker 1:And Well, and the fact that your income comes from your hands? Yeah, it's not a good idea.
Speaker 2:Well and it's just like I don't like, I don't like doing anything Like it. Just it was no fun to not ride like as hard as I wanted to ride, to like hold myself back. So, yeah, I got to a point where I was just like this is a fun. If you're thinking about crashing like it's like not in a man's game, yeah, it's not a well. I mean kind of sorta like I could still do it and have fun with it. But it's really hard for me to like how I used to do it and then go do it at 75, 80% and want to go faster and like do all the jobs.
Speaker 1:I get the same thing with golf and it's always funny trying to explain that to people. Yeah, and my brother like explained it perfectly to me about a week ago, because I picked up the clubs again and I haven't played for 10 years and like I play in one scramble a summer like a fundraiser with a friend, that's it, and I had. I started playing because I had a guy that wanted to play and so I was like, well, I got to play. Good when I play him, so I can't just jack this around.
Speaker 2:So if we're going to go play like I, got to play good.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I got to get serious and so I'm like, I'm like I need to practice for about a month, like for real, for real. And. But people are like, just come play, It'll be so fun. I'm like and my brother explained it perfect whenever he was like, when you play, it's always going to be the same as it's always been, or you're going to get better. I'm never going to be as good as I was, and so it's not. It's hard to have fun with that, because you can still see it, you can still think it, you can still feel it, but you just can't always do it and it's just. It gets frustrating. And I was like and that's a perfect way to put it- yeah, cause yeah, just, it's just not the same.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I was so when I was, when I was riding. I was going I was off work on Tuesdays and I was going out to a Robbie Reinerd, who's legendary motocrosser. He's got a training facility, so he was letting me come out and train. You know, he had some like real pros out there that live out there and train, so I was going out and riding with those guys. He's like, yeah, just come on ride. And it's just like you realize how good you aren't when like these guys were like top 10 in the pros they're like for real.
Speaker 2:Yeah or winning races and like you know, sometimes you do these drills where you like the slowest guy went first, like slowest to fastest drills, and like you hear those guys coming and I would just like get off the track, I'm like for one, I'm not going to be the guy.
Speaker 1:To take one out.
Speaker 2:There's going to be a press release about it because, these guys is hurt, but they're coming so fast. It's just, it's insane Watching like that level.
Speaker 1:It's just different.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I know people are like you're pretty good. I'm like, no, I'm not good. Like I know you think that, but like the guys that I think are good, like they're pretty good, but they're still not good.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like there's such, it's such a different level when you get to the high level of any sport, like what you think is good and what is really good is, and it's in every sport. Yeah, I mean, it's just like in mountain biking or cycling, you know like think about this like a local crits. Well, I mean perfect example at Wheeler Tuesday night was the first one back. You know, all the local guys are there that are strong and McCurk shows up and there was a guy, wolfgang, something from Germany. He's like a legit pro. I can't remember who he rides for, but he's like legit, legit yeah.
Speaker 1:He was happening, to be traveling across and stopped and raced. Well, the first couple of laps the two of those guys are off the front, you know, doing their thing, just rolling together. And then Evan, just like, he just like rides him off his wheel and I'm like, and he's so good on the US crit scene Like he is, I mean, one of the strongest guys out there right now. But you take that level of like being the bottle getter at the tour.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like the spread between the two is, like it's just unbelievable.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And he's so far above everybody else locally.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's hard to understand if you haven't been in it. Like I watched motocross on TV and the slowest guy out there. Like you see him at the local track and you're like, oh shit.
Speaker 1:How's that even possible that?
Speaker 2:guy is so good and he's getting lapped halfway through the race. Yeah, it's like the level is.
Speaker 2:So, like Ryan and Vanessa don't watch the outdoor motocross, but they watch the supercross, like because it's like I think it's easier to like be entertained by it, right, but the outdoors, like, I can appreciate what they're doing, like the technique and how hard what, like what they're doing, how hard it is Right, and so I get super into it because that's what I'm watching, like, not so much the race. Yes, yeah, and it's like if you haven't done it, you just would never understand it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you just watch it differently.
Speaker 2:The level is so high it's crazy. Yeah, right, with those guys I was like man, this is, I don't belong out here. Yeah, I'm going to go back and pedal. I'll be bad on the kids on the minibus. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And hope and get embarrassed, yeah. So when did you start riding a bike?
Speaker 2:So I was texting you about what L like how funny you are. Funny that was because I got so a friend of mine, steve Swope, so he was, he's friends with Matt Hoffman, so he's kind of a legend in the freestyle BMX scene, kind of a pioneer of a lot of that stuff. Like back in the 80s he got into Moto and he started coming in the shop that I worked at at the time, the motorcycle shop. So I met him that way and so we would go ride together. He's like man, you should start, you start mountain biking, because when I rode Moto, even riding at the level I did, I never trained at all.
Speaker 1:I didn't do anything.
Speaker 2:I rode maybe once a week. I raced on the weekend, I worked like. I just didn't realize how much that would help. I do now Like like. When I started riding a couple of years ago I was like, man, if I was this fit, then it made a huge difference, massive difference, yeah.
Speaker 2:But he, he's like. He taught me into mountain biking. I think I borrowed a mountain bike and I went and rode with him and he was just like kicking the crap out of me and I was like I kind of liked the, the riding, but it was so hard because I was so out of shape, Right, Um, but he got me into it. And how old were you? Oh, it was probably 24.
Speaker 1:Oh, a way way later in life.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause that's when I was, you know I was I was losing interest in in in Moto, because it's like, yeah, what else am I going to do with this?
Speaker 1:Like I get it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and, but that was like all I'd ever done. I never played stick and ball sports. I raced dirt bikes my whole life.
Speaker 1:That's all I did and uh.
Speaker 2:So then he taught me into doing a race. We went to, uh, mcmurtry I had no idea what I was doing, like I didn't know anything. And so we take off and, like I signed up in the cat or the sport can do, he starts behind me because he's older and he catches me within the first 10 minutes. He's like heckling me on the way by. I got a, I got a flat, like right after that I had nothing to fix a flat. I was running tubes, I don't know. I was probably running. He told me you know he came from from freestyle, and I was like what, how much air do you run? He's like I don't like 60 or something. So I was always running like 60 PSI on my mountain bike tires.
Speaker 1:At McMurtry, where it's bumpy and raw. You must have been bouncing everywhere. I ran that for for a while.
Speaker 2:I didn't know any difference, like I didn't know anybody and I didn't know any shops, so like I was figuring a lot of stuff out on my own and what he knew, and, um yeah, so I flat, and then I was like, well, I'll just cut through here, cause that's where the parking lots at and that's when I learned you just stay on the trail I ended up. I ended up miles away on a gravel road, like out, you know, like the race.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I just started walking through the woods thinking I was shortcutting to the parking lot and I ended up on this gravel road. I got a front flat and I'm like I'm gonna try to ride it, and so I'm like riding it where I can up these rolling gravel, gravel roads. And I was. I was headed the right way back but I mean it had been, it had been a long time Like I was. I was lost for a while and a dog. A dog starts chasing me and I'm sprinting downhill on gravel with a flat front tire.
Speaker 1:What could go wrong?
Speaker 2:Finally get to the parking lot. Anyways, he's like sitting on his tailgate. Everybody's gone, like everyone has left.
Speaker 1:He must have been like.
Speaker 2:I thought you died. Where have you been? So I told him the whole story.
Speaker 1:I was like I'm never doing that again. What an awesome first race story, yeah.
Speaker 2:Good night.
Speaker 1:Man, just when you think it couldn't get worse.
Speaker 2:And so, like you know, jeff Minor, like I rode with him all the time, like we rode all the time. And so then Steve talks us into another race this is probably, it's probably the next year, I don't remember how long it was and Jeff and I Jeff signed up in the beginner, I signed up in the sport and just like, well, I don't want to, I want to race you. So he just like goes and gets on the start line in my race, even though he's not signed up, and we take off and we are just like sprinting each other off the front of this race and then we both just blow up and like everybody passes us and there's like these.
Speaker 2:Have you raced at Elk City before you know those? Like those dirt ravines? Well, we were new to clipping in, so we're like trying to climb up these and we can't unclip and we were both like falling down, like falling.
Speaker 1:The two of you together Way off the back Like dumb and dumber, like minutes behind the field at this point.
Speaker 2:And then, like we finished one lap, which, jeff, he still claims he beat me even though we both quit, but he did beat me to the finish line, but I didn't go to the finish line Troy.
Speaker 1:he says he beat me in a duathlon because I didn't show up the second day, because I got I wrecked and got so injured I couldn't move my leg. So he still claims that he won. I mean technically he won the bet, but I still never hear the end of it.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't give Jeff this one because he went to the finish line. I was like, well, I quit before you because I wasn't going to do the ride of shame to the finish lines, I just turned off. I was like I was like I quit before you, so I won. Yeah, we remember like Steve did both laps and we were like that guy's amazing, Like how can he do two laps around this course. And then, oh, the best part of that, we again. We still didn't know what we were doing. We left Oklahoma city, so Oklahoma city, Elk city is like two hour drive. Stop in a gas station. We each got a banana and a monster and that was it.
Speaker 1:That still probably is only thing that Jeff eats in a day.
Speaker 2:That was all we had. We didn't have anything before the race oh, my gosh. So we drove two hours on that and then tried to race like two hours after that and then I didn't race again. Yeah, I don't know why you've had two experiences.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like Steve tell me to race. I didn't race again until I did the last. The last year they did the 12 miles of hell before it changed promoters and it really went downhill after that. But the last year they did it. Steve was going to do it. He's like he talked me into doing it. So me and him and Jeff, we all went and did it and I actually did pretty good. I got I don't know, I did pretty good Top 20 or 30 or something, which for me like Steve was like that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Because that was brutal. Yeah, everything I've ever heard about that race it was. It was really hard.
Speaker 2:And most, most versions were a little longer than 12 miles, but it's just like razor sharp rocks and you're just going up and down these hills. There's no single track and pretty much just it's like tank roads and like rock slabs. So it's quite an experience. So I did that and I was like, well, that went pretty well. And then, like I still wasn't, I still wasn't all in.
Speaker 1:So this whole time you only did mountain biking yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like Jeff and I would go to Draper like two or three times a week and go as hard as we could. We usually didn't do a full lap. We had plans to like, we had this goal to do like a full lap of everything and we would never do it. But yeah, that we just went out there and these were we were on. We were not on nice bikes.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But by the 12 miles of hell we both had gotten nice bikes. He was working at Wheeler dealer and then. So then I had someone you know a little bit. Before that I had kind of met Brandon and he was like I had someone I could ask questions to like figure out what equipment to get, like I didn't know anything. So I started meeting people and, you know, get a little info, but after that I was kind of done again. Another funny story about that day is I remember Jeff crashing a cactus and I remember sitting in the parking lot and having to like pull cactus needles out of his ass because there was no one there to do it for him. He's like you got to get these out.
Speaker 1:It couldn't have been a better person either.
Speaker 2:Vanessa and I have done a lot of things like that with Jeff. That does not surprise me.
Speaker 1:That does not surprise me one bit God that guy so he's a walking story.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah. I've got a lot of Jeff stories.
Speaker 1:Some probably are inappropriate, probably more than you you probably have to.
Speaker 2:I've worked with.
Speaker 1:Jeff, just long enough to really get to know Jeff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, after that I was like, cool, I did a race, I finished, like as the first one I finished, and I really wasn't going to race anymore. I was still just riding and I was still doing moto. And then, like I started getting, you know, I started riding a draper with like some more people and like they were all going to race, like we did the Thunderbird race. And so, like I was going on to Thunderbird and riding, riding, riding, trying to like memorize the course, that I didn't realize they changed the course all the time.
Speaker 2:You know so um, yeah, I did that like right before Ryan was born. Like that Sunday we raced, that Monday we went to the hospital. So that was like my first. I call that my first race. But um went and did the cat to there and got like third in it. And then Vanessa still laughs at me because I eat hot dogs afterwards and then I puked them up. It's just like just no clue about anything, you did everything wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can't believe you stuck with it.
Speaker 2:I don't know how it. I don't know how I did After those first few. I don't know how everything you did made it unfun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but it was just like it was something new and what I really liked about it. You know, compared to motos, like moto you go to the track at like seven AM and you're there all day, like till sundown, because there's so many races and you know you might race for like. You know you do like two motos per class. If I ride two classes, I'm so I'm riding like 20 laps, which is not. You know, the laps are short, so you're there all day and you're not riding much.
Speaker 2:And I was like this mountain biking is kind of cool, cause like I know what time I start, so I just have to be there at that time and then I ride for an hour and a half, two hours, and then I can leave. So that started becoming really appealing to me, just just like you know starting, you know having kids, having a family, like maximizing that time instead of just sitting at a dirt bike track all day.
Speaker 1:Did you have the like really good handling skills but just no fitness when you started?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So like you just had to work on fitness, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I was riding, like I mean, the first bike I had was like it was a trek but and I was borrowing it from a friend it was probably. It was like their base model, like the cheapest track, and so I'm, you know, I've got the handling ability to ride fast, but the equipment Right. Like they can. The equipment doesn't really handle it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't have that problem, so I was like I don't understand that.
Speaker 2:But go, keep going. So you know, you start getting nicer and nicer bikes and I started getting faster because it was like it was better equipment too. Yeah, the handling I always had from race and moto Right. So you know, I tell people like I can go race and mountain bike trail blind, like I don't have to pre ride it. It's nice to pre ride, but if I don't, if I can't, then I can do it, because processing the obstacles in the trail for me it's like slow motion in my brain.
Speaker 2:Because you have to do it so fast and so far ahead on a motorcycle, because it I mean to go fast on a motorcycle. Everyone's got a throttle, so you have to find smoother lines and you have to. You have to flow through corners better. You have to find ways to go faster, so like if the track's really rough, you have to find a way you know two or three corners ahead to make sure you're not in that rough line but you can't just move over like on a bicycle you're on a dirt bike and you're going really fast, so you have to learn that.
Speaker 2:And so for me, going down a trail, like I can just look ahead and I'm like there's the line and I can just go for it, like I can process it really quick. So the handling and all you know how to corner. Like you know, I started riding a draper, so you learn how to corner really efficient or you just go really slow and work hard there. So it was a good place to learn. But it definitely you know through the years it's like you realize how much it limits. You get a lot of people used to that one thing and like I can't do that. It's like no, you just, you just got to practice that.
Speaker 1:I've never done it yeah.
Speaker 2:But yeah, just zero fitness. And that's kind of where, you know, my story is really similar to Jason's. Like I went and you know I started doing a few more races and then you know, I led, like I did a race at Turkey mountain and I led all the way until like the last 10 minutes and I got passed because I was just dead tired, yeah, and I was like that's it, I'm going to road bike. I'm going to road bike.
Speaker 1:So he started training.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then so I got a road bike and Jeff got a road bike and we would do this ride. I remember we would. I lived South side Oklahoma city and we would ride to Norman and Steve. I was still talking to Steve at the time. He was like giving me training but he didn't know. Like he's like man, I don't know, I've never ridden at that level. He's like just go out and go really hard for three miles and then rest for like I forgot how far and then do it again. So like we have to kind of, yeah, three times a week.
Speaker 1:That's all we did.
Speaker 2:That's all we did, and you know I just kept getting faster. So I was like yeah, seems to work, yeah.
Speaker 2:It doesn't have to be complicated. So I did like I did, I think, three or four sport races and then I won a sport race by like five minutes and I was like, all right, I'm not interested in this. So then I then I upgraded and there was a you know, a guy I give credit to in a way, but I won't name him as a local guy, who's he was the fastest cat one at the time, very full of himself, and I heard him like just running his mouth at a race. I was like I'm going to beat that guy, like just just to beat him, and like I saw I cat it up.
Speaker 2:He was at the next race and he, you know, he said something at the start line Like I could tell he was. It was kind of condescending, but he was trying not to be and I, I got the start and I went. I like killed myself. I went as hard as I could go for the whole like two hours Cause I was like I heard him mess up behind me and I was like I got to go and I just raced, scared the whole time that he was going to get caught, and I won by a long ways.
Speaker 1:And I was like I want to count one race.
Speaker 2:And then you know, the next weekend I beat him again and then he quit racing.
Speaker 1:Shut up, he never, he never. He was done. Oh my gosh, it was kind of satisfying.
Speaker 2:I wish he wouldn't quit.
Speaker 1:But yeah, no kidding. So from the time you started riding, let's, let's say from your, your, your, your, let's go from your very first mountain bike race experience to winning the cat one race. How many years was that?
Speaker 2:Um, let's say a year and a half maybe. Oh, it was that quick, so the first one was 06. Uh, maybe two years.
Speaker 1:Okay, so pretty quick.
Speaker 2:The timeline, I don't know, it's kind of blurry, but yeah it was. It was not long, because I did that one and then I didn't race anymore until the season. Like the season that was like into the season. I didn't race anymore until the beginning. Yeah, I'd say I did, I did, I started as a cat to that next season and then, like halfway through the season, I cat it up.
Speaker 1:When did you discover cyclocross and or road racing?
Speaker 2:Um, road racing was second because I got a road bike and then Jeff was. Jeff was more plugged into the scene and working at Wheeler dealer so he was telling me like the firehill crits that used to happen I think that was that in those Draper circuit races Yep, it's kind of where I got into it. I'm never. I still don't like road racing. It doesn't.
Speaker 1:I love crits.
Speaker 2:I love crits.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So I love crits and it's not. You know, I always joke about it. I don't ride over two hours, but it's not the duration of road races. I've just done so many, um that are so boring, right, I mean, I think the last, last one I might have done it was in Tulsa and there was like soundpony had a good team and Oklahoma bicycle project and they were telling they told me, you mark Rob Bell and I was like all right and like this attack goes from the gun and I'm marking Rob Bell and it's me and Rob by ourselves just riding around. He's like well, I was supposed to mark you and we rode around the whole race. The women's field caught and passed us. We're just like cruising off the back, yeah, until we passed his teammates one by one.
Speaker 1:Then I'll have flats and all of a sudden he Rob Bell's it. And then we're racing for the last lap.
Speaker 2:Like I've had so many road race experiences like that, they just bore me and it's like you get bored, then you attack and then you can't really, you know, do that. So the tactics of it bore me. Crits are a lot more fun, but I started doing firehill crits. I won my first one. I went, uh, josh Jewel was there and somebody else, but anyways, I get attacked and they, they police the front of it and I ended up riding away and I was like I'm pretty good at this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was like the sea race or something, um, but but at that point I had pretty good fitness. I just was having to race as a cat five because you know the road system you have. You can bump up quicker and mountain bike and cycle cross, but um, road, I battled that for several years because I didn't do enough to accumulate points. So I was winning cat five races and I upgraded pretty quick there. I think it's like 10 stars and then as a cat four, I mean I just kept asking for upgrades because I had the skill and I understand their system makes sense. But they think, oh yeah, this guy's fit but he's going to crash everyone out. I did a sand springs crit, I lapped the field solo. They still wouldn't upgrade me. It was just like I was frustrated with road because I was like I don't want, I feel bad because my fitness was above the cat four fitness and those guys were working hard to win their cat four races.
Speaker 1:That wasn't fair, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like I just want to be where I'm, you know, with people.
Speaker 2:So it took, it took time, but I got there. But I didn't start cycle cross until it was probably like four or five years later, 2010, 2011. Josh, joel kept talking about it and they used to do a practice in Norman, at the duck pond. So like what else was there for a few of them? Josh would do them. I went out there and I did. I did the practices. I never raced Like I just didn't, I don't know. It was like I didn't know much about it. I didn't have a real bike, so I didn't really do it. I just was really mountain bike focused because I liked that.
Speaker 1:I will say that I've never felt slower in my life than riding on a cross bike Like it's it, like steals your soul, like you ride as hard as you can and you're like I can't get off and walk this fast. It sucks.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, look at, look at like your average speed after a cross race, even if you're in the pro race and you think you're flying like, or the distance you cover in an hour.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not, it's wild and it's so well, like in the trees, it feels fast because trees are going by you. When you're out in the middle of a park and you're riding as hard as you can and you're going like eight, it's like this I'm slogging through mud.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm just barely moving, miserable.
Speaker 1:Have you ever done a cross race so miserable? Too too many. Yeah, I would say that crosses for me is like one of those things. It's like it's really fun in theory and after the fact it's fun because I'm like oh man, this one thing happened. This one thing happened, but during it I don't have a lot of fun. It's so hard. And it takes such a different level of fitness.
Speaker 2:You know what I always tell what I say and I don't think people I don't know people buy it or or listen to it. So many people try cross with underprepared and with really inferior equipment. Yes, and they're like all right, you say you want to try cross and you find the cheapest bike you can find that will do it, and you go out there and try it, one you don't have. You know, a couple of clinics beforehand would help just to have an idea of what you're doing. Like go find the cheapest mountain bike you can find and go try a mountain bike race and how do you think that's going to go? It's going to be terrible because your equipment is crap and you're like I think equipment and cyclocross is more important than any other discipline.
Speaker 1:That's my opinion.
Speaker 2:What's your piece of equipment? Wheels and tires for starters. But I mean having a bike that's that's somewhat light, because you're accelerating it so much, you're lifting it, you know. There's just so, so so many explosive efforts like having heavy equipment, having tires.
Speaker 2:We've talked I think we've done a podcast about efficiency and cyclocross Like if you don't have good wheels and tires and you're just constantly fighting traction everywhere, up up hills and through corners, like you're killing yourself, like so much energy that's wasted. And if you have really good wheels and tires and a decent frame, you can go so much faster because what you're doing is you're slowing down, because you're uneasy, where, if you have good equipment, like you can just go into those corners really fast, you don't have to accelerate as hard. So it just over the course of the event, you save so much energy and you've you're not tense on the bike, so. But that's a big ask to like buy a nice cross bike to try cross. So it's like it's one of those things that never really happens. But if you were able to borrow a really nice cross bike or even like a mid-level it doesn't have to be a $10,000 bike and go try it with. You know, have someone go out with you and like here's how you do this.
Speaker 1:The lines. The time that we did I was a race in Tulsa that I did and you showed me some lines, like on a practice lap, and I was like huh, or it was like even like an off camber, like 180. And that the way I was taking it and the way that you showed me today, it was like not even it wasn't the same sport that I was doing that you're talking about. I was like huh and it made it significantly different.
Speaker 2:And because I don't have the same experience or the view of cross that a lot of people do. And it's not because I'm good at it, it's because I know how to ride the courses and be efficient. And yeah, like you go to, we go to a big race where there's a lot of people and, like the cat, four races or five races go out first and like you know the skill progression through the day and like, by the time we race, like we're not riding, like the line that's burned in the course we're not even touching it because it's the wrong line and it makes it so much harder.
Speaker 2:So, but you know that's, that's a wormhole there, like skill versus fitness and how you know, I for about a year in Tulsa I tried to do skill based training with people and I just people don't get it for some reason Interesting. It's like people, I can race people on the road that I can't. There's no way I can hang with them and I literally lap them in cross races and it's only because I've just known how to flow around the course and how to be efficient because they have the fitness. But they, you know they burn out so quick by being inefficient.
Speaker 1:So okay. So because I wanted to talk about this at some point. Since we're here, we'll just kind of dive in and we can come back to some other things. So because mountain biking is the same, because I never understood that when I first got into, like working in the bike shop and stuff, I'm like, oh, this guy's like a cat one on the road, why is he get crushed on mountain bike? Like I never understood it until I did it. And then I'm like and saw it and then I was like, okay, now I understand, because the motor just takes him into the trees. He doesn't know how to take the corner.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So whenever, because we're going to do some skills work while I'm out here, um and my me and Saxby are out here this weekend, and whenever do you find that cross and mountain biking are very similar as far as the skill set or how you're looking at things, or do you find them just? They're just completely, totally different sports.
Speaker 2:I think they're identical and I think road's the same, like the principles apply across the board. And it's like I get that like cyclocross, for me, is the closest thing I feel to motocross because it's a, it's a small closed course. You get there, like, even if you go to the same motocross track every week, the lines I mean some tracks, like there's going to be a bump right here. Later on there's going to be a rep, like you kind of know how to develop but you still have to figure out, like, where to go on the track. And with cyclocross you that's what I like about it Like you go out on a course that nobody knows, like it's new to everybody, and figure out how to go faster on it than everyone else. And I mean I've won or placed one a lot of cross races when I didn't have much fitness and it's because, like, I know how to be really efficient.
Speaker 1:And what are those things that you see, that you do or that you're teaching new riders or I mean even experienced riders that it's just like in your mind. You're thinking like how did you not see that? Or why are you doing that? Yeah, what is that? Low hanging fruit corners?
Speaker 2:It's like a hundred percent corners, like they carry too much speed into them, they go too fast into them for too long and they turn too tight. So say you've got a 180 corner and you come. You're coming into it in the middle of the course, like between the tape, and you start your turn at the apex where you're going to end up on the tape on the outside. Especially if you're coming into fast, Like when I enter a 180 corner, I'm rubbing the tape on the outside and I'm breaking before I ever start to turn. Like all my breaking is done before I start to lean.
Speaker 2:So you, so you kind of kill all that speed and then when you lean you just roll instead of like still trying to turn your bike and still riding on your brakes in the apex, which is generally what causes you to crash or slow down more because you slide Just let off the brakes before you actually go into the corner, roll the corner and then at that point where the average rider is like fighting to not hit the tape, I'm already going straight again and already pedaling, but I'm not pedaling hard because I didn't scrub as much speed Does that make sense Like so you're not.
Speaker 1:Are you breaking?
Speaker 2:you're breaking, earlier breaking earlier harder, like for a shorter amount of time Cause that's something that it would depend on the corner, like how much you got to slow down. I mean you. You tend to start to get a feel for like what? The speed limit? I mean corners have speed limits and it's like, all right, I've got to break hard enough to get to that speed limit or I'm going to. You know, my tires are not a whole.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it's just like I mean you watch F1, watch how those guys corner, and they corner that way because they're going so fast. They have to corner that way. They start wide, they cut in at the apex and then they float out on the on the exit, like you watch. That. That's how you should corner on a bike, on a mountain bike, it's the difference being you're working with like two feet rather than you know 10 or 15. But yeah, I mean like we'll ride some stuff tomorrow. We'll ride some berms where there's grass, where I go, and there's dirt, where everyone else goes.
Speaker 2:Like you start a berm in the center when you get the apex, your bike starts wanting to climb up and then you're like you know, oh shit, and you're hitting the brakes because you're climbing up the berm. Well, I'm starting on top of the entrance, like on top of the berm, and then I dropped down in the middle, gotcha, and it just like if I have to use my brakes and corners on a mountain bike, I don't like it. Like if I, if I'm like skidding, then I screwed it up. So if you're skidding, it's because you the end, you screwed up the entry, you're going too fast and you're like I'm trying to shut it down.
Speaker 2:So it's like yeah over here. It's a little hard because it's so marbly.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I mean like when I rode Draper, when I rode Draper all the time, it's just like if there was a corner I didn't hit what I felt perfect and just frustrated me and it's like I would remember at the next time and then when I race courses that are new, like you'll mess stuff up and it really, it really like bugs me more than it probably should just to barely mess up. So, and that's probably just a little of my personality too, but that efficiency is like I try to, I teach it to my kids, I teach it to the bike school kids and it's like it sounds so crazy because until you get it it doesn't make sense and it seems like such a small thing, but it's such a big thing.
Speaker 2:Right, same with like crits are the same way. That's why I say it applies to road. Like you know, no one went to like open your corners up and the fat. When you're going 30 miles an hour you got to start your corner sooner than when you're going 25. So no one went to change that and a lot of people don't don't see that. And I've raised a lot of people and cross and it's like I've coached people that I race and cross to try to show them this stuff and it's like it for a couple of weeks and then they don't do it and it's they can go back to doing intervals.
Speaker 1:Do you? When it comes to that stuff, do you think a lot of it is just natural? How much do you think of it is natural, ability compelled, compared to how much can be taught? Because I mean comparing it to golf, like if you don't have it you're only going to get to a certain point, like it's you just don't. You just don't have that feel, you don't have that eye for you, don't have the touch for it. Like can teach you the technique and you still can't do it.
Speaker 2:It's. It's tough because there's things like I said, like we'll walk, we'll go to a cross course, we'll go to a mountain, we went to nationals. Like the first time I look at it nine times out of 10, the first time I look at it, I know the line and I know that's the best line. And like, there's times where I'll ride it and I'm like, eh, maybe not Like it, speeds, things change, but it's just like I can look at the terrain and read it and know, and I don't think you can, you can sort of teach that. That's what I struggle with, like with coaching the kids. It's like I want to like take them to something and show them and then them learn how to apply it, but I don't know, because you're right, so much of it comes natural to me and I don't know if it's from motocross or just the way my brain processes it, but I yeah, sometimes I'm like maybe I'm just like, maybe you just can't teach what I'm trying to teach and that's
Speaker 2:the problem and I try to. I try to take people out and make them feel it and feel, but then it's like, yeah, I know how to do that here now. It's like you ride down the trail and and have to. I was doing it with Ryan, we rode it at Hobbs last weekend and there was this like there's all these like dips there where you're just if you pedal through the bottom and that it's some, it's kind of different because you're always pedaling, like locating it's on a mountain bike, but through all these dips, I was told them like spin, like super fast and like you're spinning so fast that when you hit the hill, like that leg speed, just shoot your bike up it. Like you don't have to pedal up the hill.
Speaker 2:And he's really, really good at line selection and reading terrain, but like those little things he's missing, especially at the level he's going to be racing at. Those are the little things that make the big, big difference Interesting, but they're really hard to teach and they're hard to teach people how to apply them on their own at every course. Right, but massive differences.
Speaker 2:You still need the fitness. I've gotten by with some results without the fitness because of that, but yeah, I've tried that too much. It doesn't work very often.
Speaker 1:So jumping back to kind of wrap up your athletic pursuits, how many say championships if you won in all the disciplines?
Speaker 2:at this point, I don't know A lot, I would say 20 maybe.
Speaker 1:Did the different disciplines?
Speaker 2:Most of them in mountain bike.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you know this, but you're setting next to a cat three and a cat two, mountain bike state champion. So you are welcome, sir. So tomorrow we get on trail. You just let me know if you can figure something out, we help you guys, yeah, yeah, yeah, let us lead and just follow our lines, that'll help.
Speaker 2:I would think like 10 or 11 mountain bike ones cross, not as many. I've got like two or three crit state championships. I think I have one. Road Cross was always tough because I had like Jake. It took me a long time to figure out how to beat Jake on a cross bike. He's really good, he's really mentally tough and really hard to beat. But I've got a few cycle cross ones, not as many, a lot of like. When I got good at cycle cross we were always traveling, we're always gone, so I didn't even get to do those races. So, yeah, maybe like between 15 and 20, the jerseys.
Speaker 2:There's somewhere Vanessa's got him stash Okay.
Speaker 1:So what about and I wanted to touch on your national championship stuff before we kind of get closer to wrapping up so when cross was your first national championship, right, when did you win that?
Speaker 2:2017?.
Speaker 1:And that was the Masters that was the 35 to 39. My first year in there.
Speaker 2:So Jake actually won that age group the year before his last year in that age group and then I won it in my first year. The next- year.
Speaker 1:Is that the one that B won that Brandon?
Speaker 2:won. He won 30 to 34. I think, gotcha, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he won his next year in Reno.
Speaker 1:And training for that, because clearly that was like the goal for the year, like so winning a race at that level and putting in that, what was it that you felt through your training process that kind of got you over that hump? Was it more focused training, just more time? Was it just like the course worked out for you Like what was it that? Because I'm assuming you had raised national championships before then- I raised two.
Speaker 2:I got fifth. Austin was the first one I did. I got fifth Ashville. We did the next year. I got third, okay, and then I won the next year in.
Speaker 1:Hartford. So what do you think it was different between the first and the fifth? Was it just experience and fitness or did you think there was a couple of things?
Speaker 2:like I went to Austin with no expectation. It was like the first year I seriously really, and I didn't even I think we went and raced in Boulder as a family. I still didn't really know what I was doing with the cycle cross, Like I had nicer equipment and I was, you know, I was faking it pretty good, but I still didn't quite know. And then when it was in Austin, I was like I was, I was excited about that one, I was like all right it won't be cold there, so we'll go do that one.
Speaker 2:And it was like 32 and drizzling when I was on the start line.
Speaker 2:So I was like that sucked, but that one went okay, no-transcript. You know I didn't know what I was doing. I got there was a run up, I was in the lead group and my my through axel skewer got caught in a fence. I lost the lead group and I was just rode by myself between that group and the next group. Gotcha Pretty uneventful Next year in Asheville, like I still.
Speaker 2:I wasn't going there thinking I could like win. I was like I know I can podium lead group of three, so just three of us and I got dropped on the last lap up a climb, ended up third and I was kind of frustrated because it's like I still don't climb really steep climbs. Well, and that's where I got dropped. But I was texting Jake after cause Jake won, you know, and like that. That was a big thing for me because people from around this region weren't winning cyclocross races or national championships. It just it didn't seem like that possible. He won and I'm like well, shit, he won, like that means I can win, like it made me believe I could win it and like seemed possible. I was texting him like a week later I was like man, I just need to start climbing better. I was like what do you think I need to do? He's like he's got to tell you. In April it was just like leaving alone pretty much.
Speaker 2:And then he told me he's like you need to lose a little weight, like at the time I wasn't. I wasn't overweight, but I wasn't. I thought I was pretty lean, but I wasn't that lean.
Speaker 1:I wasn't that level.
Speaker 2:I was 175, probably at six two, so you know, normal or pretty, pretty lean, but by so I just like really focused on my diet. I was like I need to drop weight, I need to. I did everything that year. I also had shoulder surgery that year. So I had shoulder surgery in March. So I was off my bike for three months, which was really good for me because I was super motivated because, I didn't get to do anything.
Speaker 2:I mainly focused on my diet. Like I dropped a ton of weight when I couldn't ride, which is kind of hard to do. I think I got down. I got below 160. Oh my.
Speaker 1:God. And then I was like that's too much.
Speaker 2:That's too much Like I could tell at that point, like I was just learning, like how to deal with calorie deficit and like where, where that balance was. And at that time I wasn't training hard, but I was riding a little bit and I like 160, 165 is kind of where.
Speaker 2:I landed like fluctuated during that season, but it was like it was everything and that that year was really hard because the kids were still young. So, like the kids, I had to be like I couldn't train really after work because I worked till six, got home at seven so I had to be done training by seven in the morning. So I was, I was up at four, four, 30 every morning. I'd get up and stretch, I'd do my core workouts. Like every day I would go out in the dark, do all my workouts. Like I didn't ride that whole season. I didn't ride in the daylight unless it was on the weekends, oh my gosh. So I was done training by seven am, getting the kids to school. And it was just like I think it was good for me to have that routine, like I have to do this, like I had no option if I was going to do all the workouts that Mark Teruki, who was coaching me at the time, was giving me. So yeah, that was my routine.
Speaker 2:And then you know that was the first year of the SPCX cross team. No second year. So traveling with those guys, doing a lot of bigger races, and I was just like every, every elite masters race we did all year. We went to several big events and I won every race and the only one I that I didn't think I was going to win. Jake was off the front and I was with. I was with Mark Savry and Matt Timberman, so we I was just sitting on those guys and they both screwed up in the sandpit on the last lap and I passed and I was like, well, I'm going to attack them. And then Jake screwed up in a turn and I wasn't even trying, I wasn't going to catch him.
Speaker 1:It was.
Speaker 2:You know he was going to win that. But so I won every masters race I did that year. But looking back I'm kind of bummed, like I was so focused on nationals that I was just like I didn't care that I want it. I was like, yeah, I should win that race and like every race all year long is the kind of the attitude I was like losing nationals. For me that year wasn't an option. I really wanted to win it.
Speaker 2:And then we get there and it's like every day the weather's different. So it was a little stressful. Like the first day, the day before we got there, the course was fine. The next day it was frozen. The next day, I thought out was muddy. I think the next day was my race. Like that's the picture of it up there. It was. It snowed on top of the frozen mud, so you, you couldn't see, but there were frozen ruts going every direction under the snow. So you, you would, you were hitting these things and bottoming the rim and like you couldn't see it and it would just shoot you off course. But I didn't care, like none of it was really affecting me.
Speaker 2:I got the start, I got to the front and I crashed and I was like freaking out a little and I just blew it, even though I felt I went to like third and that was right before the pit. By the pit I was back in first and I was riding a lot of the stuff that other guys were having to run because it was really slick and that line selection again like just knowing, like instead of turning in the turns I was turning before the turns and I was just staying on my bike. One guy, you know one guy, went with me. He caught one of those ruts going through pit one and went straight into the fence and it like broke his shifter and so then I was alone. So it was like managing this race for 40 minutes.
Speaker 2:Just not screw up on the worst terrain Just thinking like you have to keep going because these guys I had a decent lead but one crash and they would have been there.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it was. So it was so mentally taxing to just like stay that focused on that terrain for that amount of time. Yeah, and then. I didn't like in that picture. So there's a curb where it dropped onto that road and I didn't think like I was not relaxing until I went off that curve. And when I came off the curb I was like, all right, I got it because, like I mean, you're going off a curb like anything could happen.
Speaker 2:It was slick and yeah, it was. It was really cool. But at the same time, like I was telling Vanessa like we were walking around right after he had to go check for anti-doping and all that stuff and I was like exhausted. It was like that whole season of like all of that finally like kind of unloaded and I was just like wiped out.
Speaker 2:Weird, it was the weirdest feeling like the rest of the day I was like that. And then did the single speed race the next day and they I've never been in like a real blizzard, like a real blizzard. I tried. I tried because I was wanting to double and now that I look back I didn't know people did this. I was riding to the front and then we, there was two spots you had to get off and run and I would lose about 20 spots on each one because I could not get my feet under me. They're just sliding out from under and people are running like bolts and screws through the soles of their shoes.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I saw pictures after, like lag bolts almost, and they were just like running past me and I'm like I'm holding my brakes and have my feet still and I cannot move, or I'll just like yeah. And I would get on and I'd ride back to the front and then I'd get to the next one and I did that for like half the race and I was just getting pelted with snow in my eyes and I was just like I'm done, I just pulled out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was so frustrating, but you know, like I did what I went to do. The downside of that whole thing is like I, it took me, it took me until this year to like, put a full, like a really trained to accomplish a goal like fully commit. I didn't commit this year. I don't think like I did then, but I knew what I was doing, more which helped, but it's just like man I don't want to like. I don't know if I want to do that again.
Speaker 1:No, sounds miserable.
Speaker 2:And I don't think you have to do it the way I did. But for me that was like I have to do everything Right and I think now I you know, knowing what you really need to do and what you don't need to do, you can manage that a little better. But I was like, if I don't do everything and then I lose, then I'll be like, well, I should have done that but yeah, that was 2017.
Speaker 1:Then fast forwarded. This year you won mountain bike.
Speaker 2:Short track national championship.
Speaker 1:So do you only get to wear your jersey when you do short?
Speaker 2:track race, which there's none. We do have our short track series in the spring, wearing that muffler. Every race, every week, every week I'm wearing it Practice race.
Speaker 1:I'm in.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But um, did you. Yeah, just every time there's a short track, you just wear it and then park in line. Yeah, this is whatever you need to do. Did you go there focusing on the short track, or is that just kind of what happened, because I went?
Speaker 2:focusing on cross country. Okay, well, both. I mean, if I'm, if I'm good enough to win the cross country, I would have been good enough and I knew short track would favor me Right. Um, ended up the course, they had favored me a lot, but and where was it at? It was in, uh, mckungy, pennsylvania.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I would have never pronounced it like that before I went there. But now I know, uh, it was a, it was a great. We weren't going to go to Mount Mike Nationals as a as a program, because it's usually in Colorado and that and the elevation is so high, so unfair to do that yeah.
Speaker 2:And then I, they announced this and it was like 1,100 feet. So we kind of asked everyone if they wanted to go all the kids and they did. So we started doing that. We didn't as a program, we didn't target it. We did a lot of other cool events this year which I think got them really prepared for it. But, yeah, I went. I wanted, I really wanted to win cross country because I went to Mount Mike Nationals in 2009. So I had been racing three years Um and again like I, it was in Granby, colorado. We started at 8,000 feet and we went straight up a fire road for 30 minutes Like I had never experienced, like I was. I'd only written in Oklahoma and Texas.
Speaker 1:It's so unfair to do to everyone that doesn't live in Colorado.
Speaker 2:Well, I was pretty naive too. I was like I can still win. I was number one ranked, I got first call up. So I'm like, yeah, I'm the guy, and I'm just like watching these guys just go past me on that fire road.
Speaker 2:I think I ended up like it was like nine to 13s or something and it wasn't good. I was like, well, I'm not doing that again, but one I'm glad I didn't. I don't think I understood like like that's it's a big deal for a lot of people, it's like a cool thing to win, and I don't think I understood what it meant at the time so I probably wouldn't have appreciated it as much, especially just like coming into it and starting to win. But since then I was like man, I always considered myself a mountain biker first, like I really want to win a mountain bike national championship.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 2:I want to cycle cross one which is, I think I'm better at it. I almost enjoy it more, but still consider myself a mountain biker.
Speaker 1:So, it was good to get this short track, but the cross country I was just do you have goals of going to get in the short or the cross country at some point?
Speaker 2:I think that. I think it's at the same venue next year. And it was like the guy I was up against. You know it was hard to beat he's. He was a three time Olympian, oh geez.
Speaker 1:On the track and.
Speaker 2:I think a four time Pan Am champ. His name's Bobby Lee. I knew the name when I saw it but I had looked up like I was like I know that name, oh crap. And he lives like two miles from the course. So I was like man, this is going to be tough, that's tough.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I wasn't beat at the start line. Still, I wasn't beat into the race, but like we went to stage and then we got rain, delayed for like 45 minutes or an hour, and they shorten our race from four laps to two laps, which I don't know could have been better or worse for me. But yeah, we were racing for second pretty quick. I mean, it was the bad thing about about mountain bike nationals is they start you in waves like they do it toward the dirt, but you're catching those guys so fast and it's nationals and nobody will get out of the way. So you're just in this chaos and you have to navigate.
Speaker 2:It kind of did like, and we caught the majority of them in the rock garden section and it had rained so the rocks were slick and nobody would move. I went through the whole first lap just scootering my bike in a section that I could have ridden.
Speaker 1:I'm saying that would be like a good spot for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think Bobby got through it because I came in, bobby and CJ the guy in second had dropped me, and then I come in the rock garden and I'm yelling at these guys to get out of my way and I realized it's them.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 2:I caught them already. I was like, oh, I'm back in this and that's the last time I saw Bobby. I don't know when he went.
Speaker 1:That was it. He was gone, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So that was like you know. I got dropped. I was in third kind of battle, in third fourth, and I saw CJ in the last lap and I actually caught him for second and then he put in one last day and I was like man, if that would have been for first I might have had more in the tank. But, yeah, I wasn't.
Speaker 1:So maybe that's a goal again next year.
Speaker 2:That's definitely would be a goal next year.
Speaker 1:And as far as your training compared to what your cross was back then, is your training? Clearly things have changed. The kids are older and you have a little bit different spot in life with the job and all those kinds of things is. Is your training as intense or is it more focused and just more time efficient?
Speaker 2:It's really efficient.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how many hours a week do you train?
Speaker 2:Eight to 14 is probably the average. I think the biggest week I had was like 16 or 17.
Speaker 1:Is that kind of how it's always been?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've never been, I've never had time to like do a huge volume.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I don't. I don't enjoy just doing like a long ride. To do a long ride, like if it's a long ride with people I want to ride with, it can be fun. But I mean, typically I'm, I'm ready to be off my bike about three and a half hours into a ride, like if it goes over that it's got to be like a really, really fun ride, or I'm just like it's got to be something that matters, or just like really with a good group.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, like this the thing is now I've got I've actually got way more time to ride and train like that I did back then, right, but it's just like I like Chris Carlson is my coach and he's I don't know. He's older than me quite a bit and he's really competitive still and that's why I got all of him. I'm like all right, well, he knows how to do this at an older age and all of the training felt super, not easy, but not too much.
Speaker 1:And but.
Speaker 2:I was noticing like huge gains. So he really knows how to balance it with. I'm 41 now, so he knows how to balance that. You know like by the time I'm done with work, like I do, I usually do my workouts on the way home. I do. I maintain my core. I don't do as much as I should. I should probably do more now, but yeah, it's definitely not as like every day doing the same thing like it was before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, before we wrap up and get to the yard sale group, I do want to touch on the awesome stuff that the kids are doing. So I don't know how we lead into this, because I know they're on two completely different trajectories and success and in and paths in the world. So since we're I rise here in the house, we'll start with him. I mean, he's found a definitely a home here, definitely what needed for him to progress in the mountain biking scene. What do you see and like? How was, how was all his riding and racing going? Because it's not tour de der ride in circles anymore, it's like he's doing like downhill stuff and like those kinds of rides.
Speaker 2:So yeah his. So he was still. He was still like pretty fit, we're still racing cyclocross and and XC stuff. When we moved over here, we both intended to kind of get into the Enduro scene a little more, just to do something different. I did a couple of them. Just wasn't for me Like it's fun racing Mm, hmm, but it's. It's kind of like moto. You're out there all day and you're just riding between stages and you have a total of like actual race time of maybe like 10 minutes with our seats. That's wild and you're out there for, you know, three to five hours.
Speaker 1:Sounds terrible.
Speaker 2:For me it's just like there's so much like waiting around, it's not into it. No he got into it. Well, he came over to. He wanted to do that. A couple months after we moved here he broke his arm pretty bad he was jumping on like an airbag landing Fell off. He was actually running off of it because he jumped off, his bike, tripped and fell, fell off the airbag onto the ground. I was sitting like 10 feet away.
Speaker 1:I heard it and saw it.
Speaker 2:It was bad, broke both arms or both bones in his lower arm, had to have surgery. He was off his bike for three months. Didn't do anything during that time. So his, his just fitness, his motivation, he's honestly probably a little depressed, like we moved to Bentonville and he couldn't ride his bike.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So and it was like the whole summer. So he got over that and got through the fall. He did a little cyclo, he went with me and like he dabbled and he actually had some results because there's somebody races and he's really good in the mud, but his fitness was not good at all. He'd kind of lost that drive to do the training side of things. And then he you know, he was at school and his friend, they were playing basketball. His friend pushed him and put his hand against the wall and broke his wrist oh my gosh. So right before Enduro season again. But he got healed from that. He got into the Arkansas Enduro Series last year.
Speaker 1:So was that what he's like, thriving in as the Enduro scene?
Speaker 2:I mean, he's back more XE, xe focused and and he's XE focused and and and cross focus.
Speaker 2:Now I don't know if he'll do a little bit of it. He did like the Bentonville Bike Fest Enduro, but yeah, he won the series last year. So his first year he did the junior age group series and won. I think he won all but one race. So he did really good with it and kind of plans to move up to X-Borter Pro this year.
Speaker 2:But he wasn't part of the the Bikeschool Academy program last year and so he came on board this year and I'm you know, it's just kind of a rule, like if you're going to sign on, we've we've got like team races, you've got to do those races and you've got to train. So it's kind of the same rules for everybody. Um, because I coach, I coach all the kids on training peaks, so they all kind of have similar training programs and we're all doing the same events. But yeah, he's uh, he's just he's like he's spent the first half of this year dating out of that that whole, I mean, because his fitness went way down. Um, but he's really coming around now. Went to Mount Bikin Nationals. He rode really good but just got his butt kicked. He had to start in the very back and in the field of the fields of a hundred kids, so he had some.
Speaker 2:Really, you know, I'm trying to teach all these kids to like, look at positives, like yeah, you got 50th place, but like this lap time was as fast as the top 10.
Speaker 1:Right, You're capable spot. It's just like if you start in top 10, a game changer, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean when the girls started dead last and came up to 25th Holy cow, so it was like, yeah, that was an awesome, you got 25th, but that was an amazing race. Like I'm trying to teach them like don't focus on that result, focus on that performance. So and I've kind of taught my kids that all along, like that's all that for base, not not results. And yeah, he's getting. You know, he's leaning out now he's getting strong, he's grown.
Speaker 1:He's a big kid now.
Speaker 2:I think Mount Bikin Nationals. I think that fired him up for cross season, that's cool. He's like I don't want. He doesn't want that to happen again.
Speaker 1:So he likes. He likes the dirt side of things, yeah.
Speaker 2:He. I mean he raised the crit last night. He's raising the crit this weekend, Like he. He's kind of like me, Like he did rule three, Like he likes to compete yeah, we just like to race yeah, and I don't like to do the same thing personally all the time because it gets boring.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's why they're triathlon, that's why you hey speaking of before.
Speaker 2:I forget. We shouldn't have brought that up.
Speaker 1:Rumor is you have done a multi sport.
Speaker 2:I've done a do I counts, and I beat Rob Bell in it. Whoa yeah.
Speaker 1:Actually, that's what you told me the story. She wear short socks or tall socks. Tall socks no, you weren't. No, that doesn't count.
Speaker 2:I only beat him because of the mountain bike and then that was. That was when Draper did it.
Speaker 1:And it was a two day.
Speaker 2:That's, yeah, that's where I lost a Troy boy and I didn't do the second day because my IT band hurts. I could not walk down my stairs the next day. I had to like scoot on my butt and I was like, and the road was the second day, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's the same. It has to be the same race that we were going to do or that we did because I wrecked on the mountain bike. It was probably like 2013 or something Uh-huh, because I worked at Schlagels at the time. Yeah, that's hilarious, it has to be the same race.
Speaker 2:That run was so ugly but I went so hard on the mountain bike. I was like this is my only chance and I won. I won the first day. And I think he wanted to rematch him, I was like there's no way.
Speaker 1:I thought about trying.
Speaker 2:I was like there's no way.
Speaker 1:That's funny. Yeah, he's the one that told me that. So Aubrey is out crushing on the road scene. Let's kind of wrap up with her. I mean the girl's killing it.
Speaker 2:She is, yeah, and it's kind of funny, she's never raced road other than local crits. So she's always kind of chased Cycle Cross with us and she's really good at it. Like road did an elite World Cup for Team USA. Like she did some big races but always had trouble I think I think more so mentally putting it together at the big races. Then she went to Lindenwood University for a semester and they did a gateway cup and like she never done a pro crit and she got seventh the first night and we're like holy crap.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh, maybe we were here and we were kind of planning to go surprise her and like on the weekend and then like she topped in the next day and like so then we're definitely going to watch. And yeah, she, I think she's just out of the top 10 overall for the four days. That's crazy. Yeah, we went up, she got a call up front row call over, like oh, this is so cool, so cool. And just based off that, one weekend the Luxe development team reached out to her. So really well, that's crazy. And so she, she raced with them all last year. A lot of the races she's doing now Joe Martin, redlands, telegencia, she went to Europe for I think like seven weeks and the race over there, like all of that. She never done any of those races before and Luxe was huge because it gave her that experience.
Speaker 2:And yeah, based on that, that team disbanded. It's been around for years and it's it's funneled a lot. A lot of the Americans in the tour right now came out of that program. Interesting, like Quinn Simmons came out of that program. I don't know the full list, but there's like a lot of the guys at the top right now. If you look Trace and back, they were on Luxe, so it was a big deal to get on that team. And yeah, then she was like I think they were at Intelligentsia last year when they found out and I was like well, you're in the right place. I was like go, start meeting people, introduce yourself to everybody.
Speaker 2:So you're doing the business side you know everyone on your team is doing the same thing. Like you got it, you got to let them know a lot of things. You know she had a lot of like decent offers and the Austin aviators is where she ended up, which is is under the Williams racing development umbrella, so they have Legion and then Miami Blazers and the aviators and I would like. For a while she was like told like you definitely have a ride, like don't worry about it. But the contract was really late and I was like I was like well, you're pretty much committed now because you turned everyone else down and it ended up working out and it's a great program for her.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, this year she's like. Last year she was kind of the Dome SD. She's the first year so she was just helping, helping teammates. So this year she's trying to learn how to like get results and she's starting to figure it out. She got eighth at one day of intelligency and she was, you know, called us and was like you can tell she's figuring it out.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean every day I've seen results.
Speaker 2:This past week I mean she's been like top 15, ish, pretty much she was top 15 and overall until yesterday, yesterday, she's like she didn't feel good at all so she just told her teammate she's got one teammate. So the whole first week of intelligency she was solo, so she's getting results on her own Gotcha, which is even harder to do. Yeah, she finally got that. You could tell it clicked. She's like I mean she even said I'm not here to get top 15s anymore, like she's ready to like be top 10, top five, and I'm like that's what you need. And she's those girls that she's trying to give room to or intimidated by, she's said she's like I'm just putting a shoulder into them, like they're not taking my wheel and racing at that level is it's a, it's dumb, it's crazy Like so aggressive Now that she's getting into that like last lap fight and telling us about it.
Speaker 2:She said one of her teammates said I'm willing to die those last five laps for a result, and she's like I just kept telling myself that and I got eighth, like you. Just it's like you can't give an inch. Like listen, like what. Jason was saying like if you give an inch you're going back like eight spots.
Speaker 1:Yeah, listen to him tell his stories. I'm just like this is wild. I was riding a bicycle man Like it's crazy what it takes to be at the point I've not raced at that level.
Speaker 2:So like I've raced like Tulsa tough in the one two race, which is kind of like that, I think in the pros those guys at the front are a little more controlled with that aggression. But right. Yeah, I don't, I don't know, I don't want to do it.
Speaker 1:No, I don't either. I feel like we could have episode number two at some point, and we'll do that. I'm getting some of Dr Allen whites dumb comments, and he was supposed to send stories and comments and, in Allen fashion, this is what I have.
Speaker 2:None, nothing. Yeah, so because he that's what he's good for. Yeah, yeah, he's my co-host now on special episodes, and this is what kind of this is what kind of action I get.
Speaker 1:So he gets. I guess I get what I pay for with him, and Clearly we have to do a yard sale with you, and so we'll just pick a couple of quick hitters to make it short and sweet, because this one's getting long and I have so Many things that I actually want to ask you about. But let's go. Favorite piece of equipment under $100 tire inserts oh on all bikes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, pretty much. Okay. I Use them on a road, gravel, mountain, like they're evolving, so I've used different types.
Speaker 1:But do you think there's different type? I mean, is there you notice a difference in the different types? Yeah, okay, we're gonna talk about that a lot more tomorrow.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I bought some for Kate and we were actually talking me in sacks. We were talking about tire inserts on the way out here, so we definitely need more knowledge on that.
Speaker 2:I was not using them on the road, so the road ones are interesting, where they, when you inflate them, they shrink, so they're not like you're getting a normal feel and if you puncture they instantly expand interesting You're tired, doesn't come off and they're.
Speaker 2:They're really hard to put on and really hard to get off, and so I was like it's not worth it. Yeah, and then I put them on. I raced a crit, clipped a pedal and my back wheel skipped out and when it landed it burped. The bead of my tire came over the rim and I rode another lap because I'm like something, something's not right. I could feel the lump. Uh-huh, I wrote a whole nother lap. There was still like 50 psi on my tire because that thing expanded and.
Speaker 2:I stopped, switched the wheel and Luckily Chad shanks actually got it on go pro and I got pictures and video and I sent it. I work really closely with Vittoria. I sent it to them and they're like you know how many pairs of those we've sold based off that, that video really, because they showed it to people like this is what it does and I like them on the road because you know, when you're going like 40 plus down a hill, this has always been the way I am. I just like I hope I don't have my tire doesn't blow out, like I just think about that stuff and probably shouldn't, but if it does, it's gonna stay on the rim. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:So which is the whole thing with tubeless?
Speaker 2:I mean that's yeah, you blow out a tubeless road tire going out of hill. You're in trouble. Yeah, interesting so yeah, tire inserts are game-changers for, you know, every application. You don't need them all the time for everything, but they're in all my bikes right now.
Speaker 1:Okay, interesting, hardest event you've ever done.
Speaker 2:Hardest, probably washington challenge oh that one's always so hard for me.
Speaker 1:I've done long hard because you race it so hard or hard because the course is so hard?
Speaker 2:both Okay the only time it wasn't hard was the time I raced. I had already paid for my entry and I didn't get to train like I wanted, and so I was like I'm just gonna go ride and I just rode it and I got third, because all the people that did what I normally do, I caught them in the last 15 miles. They were just like you're in third, you're like a house to you if someone caught me, I just pulled over like I wasn't racing it whatsoever.
Speaker 2:Interesting but it's like it's a really hard event to race. Okay, it's just such. Have you done it? You should do it to experience it, but and some people love it and do it every year. It's like last time I did it was.
Speaker 1:I've never had the any kind of fitness coming out of winter to even want to consider.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did it in 2019 and I was like I'm never doing this race again. I was like I don't know why I do it. I never have fun. It's just like it's really hard and it just beats me up and I'm miserable the whole time. So, yeah, that's probably the hardest one I'm done.
Speaker 1:Okay, favorite place ever ridden.
Speaker 2:That would be. That'd be a toss up. Paul bonds and I went to Belgium for.
Speaker 1:Masters World and Cycle Cross and just everything over there was does you guys stayed and just rode around and all the like the train.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean. Well, we stayed in like a summer camp.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh like there's a water park but no one's there in the winter. But you, literally you ride out of the camp and everywhere over there there's single track through the woods, so you just ride, like like there's these like perfect rows of trees and there's trail through the middle of them, so you can ride everywhere. And it rained every day. But the way the dirt is over there you can just ride. It's like sandy loam, so you're not riding mud. So, yeah, we rode there, we got to go ride it and you know the forest, like the forest that all the pros train in, and that that place was amazing. No, I don't know, it might be like this place where, if you live there, you're like, yeah, that's pretty cool, like this is great, but you kind of get used to what you have right your daily ride, but man.
Speaker 2:It was like everything.
Speaker 1:We were like little kids over there, right, and it was stuff to beat that race. What would compare to riding there? You said it's a toss up.
Speaker 2:What the heck would be close to that 24 hours in an old play blow, oh okay.
Speaker 2:That's, that's probably my favorite mountain bike course and one of my favorite events. I've done it. I did it twice as a team With adults and then this year I did it with the Academy kids as a team. It's like it's just them. You're going so fast, I think. I think we average like 17-18 miles an hour. Yeah, it's like a 17 mile lap. I think my fastest lap this year was like 58 minutes. I mean, you're pedaling to do it, but the course lends itself to that where you can just you just fly into the desert. That's fun.
Speaker 2:It's so much fun as long as you stay on the trail Because there's a lot of cactus.
Speaker 1:Never mind.
Speaker 2:But yeah, those two are my two favorites, probably.
Speaker 1:I Guess the last one will do and we kind of talked about some stuff already. But you're working with. You're working with by school at Benville and you're coaching the Academy. That the kind of the performance kids? Yeah To that entry kid. What would be your first piece of advice for them on the mountain bike? We'll go mountain bike side.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean just a lot of a lot. I think a lot of kids want what? Coaching or training, when they haven't even just ridden their bikes? And that seems to be common theme with your show that I've been listening to. Mm-hmm, because it's so true like you don't need Planning and structure, especially living here, like just go ride your bike.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've talked about that before. You would be so strong Just riding here. Yeah like just the daily group rides because they're so Intense, but like the terrain and everything is going to beat you enough that you would get so much faster just being here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, like you have to be like. For me this is I got started getting fit again. Last year I wasn't very fit when I moved here and I'm pretty fit this year, but yeah, before that it was not fun. Like I got dropped. Every practice crit I got dropped. Group like group rides, the short track races we did, I got dropped like I couldn't hang because there's there's people moving here like myself, like that have just done things like race at a high level, yeah, so everything's fast, everything's competitive. Or Tuesday night group rides, so hard, so fast. It's a lot of fun, but yeah, for a kid I mean. Or even adults, I've had adults ask it's like you just go ride your bike, like that's what all of us did, like they see what, what we're doing now, but what we did when we started with your rotor bikes, I told you, jeff and I went to draper three times a week and just rotor bike so hard, if you feel like riding hard, right hard so don't ride easy and just enjoy riding your bike.
Speaker 2:But like You've got a, you've got a, enjoy doing it. To extend me, I'm very like. I Like kind of the training process and being on the schedule and I kind of need it because it keeps me on my bike more, just because my day-to-day is kind of busy. But yeah, I mean that's like a big focus with the kids I'm coaching like I would rather you not, you know, I'd rather you get 20th at Nationals this year than when and enjoy writing your bike 10 years from now. Right then, like you know, just beat you into the ground to get good results and make you really fast. Right now. I mean we've seen it happen way too much with our kids, like kids that win year after year and like a lot of those kids aren't racing anymore and they're 18, 19 years old. It's like you've got a, you've got it. It can be hard and you can like the challenge of the training, but it can't all be like work.
Speaker 1:What would be the one piece of advice you'd give to Mid, mediocre, middle-aged, mid-pack cat two guys? Mount bikers yeah yeah, yeah, I'm speaking for myself, not your cat. Three champions, hey he has cat it up to the back of Cat 1. Thank you very much. It's because he likes to ride longer, which is dumb.
Speaker 2:I think, I think something, and we were texting about this go, practice the things you don't like, because you don't like them, because you're not good at them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it sucks today. Perfect example he wanted to ride the hardest, craziest uphill and in moderation. I was four steps in crying like a baby, swearing, couldn't get started again. Bitch in the moment. The whole time I was like I'm turning around, I'm walking back, I'll meet you somewhere else. And we get up there at the top and he's like up there, just had the best time. I'm like I hate you, this is sucks.
Speaker 2:And he I live in Oklahoma City doing tour de dirt. People in Oklahoma City Would not go to Tulsa.
Speaker 1:No, not at all.
Speaker 2:It's too rocky way to people said there's too many corners like why don't you learn how to ride them? Like it's a with mountain biking? It's when I first started riding in the rocks. It frustrated me, it's all.
Speaker 2:I would like to have to raise people like Ray Hall, who's a master in the rocks, and I'm like I'm trying to go fast, like I'm trying to go at the speed I'm used to going, so like Going fast in the rocks is slow, like you're not just like the mile per hour so much lower right, but I'm so used to going fast, like riding draper and Thunderbird, and I want to go that speed. So I feel like I'm not good at the rocks and I would try so hard to do that I would go even slower, just like crashing and making mistakes. When I moved to Tulsa and learned how to ride rocks, I'm like, oh, like you just go slower. Like when I was going really fast on that trail, I still was going slow right miles per hour.
Speaker 2:You know, and it's funny, like when we went to nationals I was in my race, I was, I was like thinking and I was like thankful for the places I've lived and things I learned to ride, because on that course was like something. There was something that I had learned From every place I lived in written, even in the short track. There was a section at the end. It was like really fast berms and like there's there's kind of a skill to riding berms fast and there's a big seal, because I'm terrible at it and since I've been here I've figured that out even more.
Speaker 2:So I was like, oh, I'm glad I moved to Bentonville, like in the rock gardens, like I'm. I told Ryan I like this is just like Turkey Mountain. Yeah, like you just have to. Like you have to get in a rhythm in the rocks and not Try to go fast and just stay in that rhythm and get through them. And yeah, I mean, if you don't practice the things you're not good at, then you're just gonna see, stuck in that rut.
Speaker 1:Yeah, being good at the one thing and complaining about the other stuck in the not good and most things and Not real sucky and the others. That's what. That's where I thrive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in that zone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, drummin, thanks for your time. We'll let you go for the evening and We'll see you on the trail in the morning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Thanks, buddy.