Forrest tells stories about how a community has changed over time, capturing a shared love for biking and the friendships formed on dusty paths. We explore the forefront of the cycling industry, talking about the challenges and successes of small brands, the rise of e-bikes, and the constant progress that even big names like Trek experience.
As we look back, we feel a wave of nostalgia—the early days of BMX, the famous races in Oklahoma, and the vibrant mountain biking scene of the '90s. Forrest's reflections remind us of the strong spirit that connects us, whether it's the sound of chains on a tough slope or the laughter after a ride. His stories resonate with anyone who's experienced the excitement of a challenging descent or the satisfaction of conquering a climb. We celebrate the art of mountain biking, the skills we develop, and the unwritten rules of the trails.
Finally, we transition to a diverse conversation, touching on the importance of experiences over gear and the pure joy of riding on two wheels. From a near-miss with rock stardom to the joy of biking on Michigan's trails, the episode is a reminder of the freedom cycling provides. Forrest's story isn't just about bikes; it's about the life between rides, the music that inspires us, and the journeys, both on and off the bike, that shape our world.
Instagram @Okiefo
Forrest tells stories about how a community has changed over time, capturing a shared love for biking and the friendships formed on dusty paths. We explore the forefront of the cycling industry, talking about the challenges and successes of small brands, the rise of e-bikes, and the constant progress that even big names like Trek experience.
As we look back, we feel a wave of nostalgia—the early days of BMX, the famous races in Oklahoma, and the vibrant mountain biking scene of the '90s. Forrest's reflections remind us of the strong spirit that connects us, whether it's the sound of chains on a tough slope or the laughter after a ride. His stories resonate with anyone who's experienced the excitement of a challenging descent or the satisfaction of conquering a climb. We celebrate the art of mountain biking, the skills we develop, and the unwritten rules of the trails.
Finally, we transition to a diverse conversation, touching on the importance of experiences over gear and the pure joy of riding on two wheels. From a near-miss with rock stardom to the joy of biking on Michigan's trails, the episode is a reminder of the freedom cycling provides. Forrest's story isn't just about bikes; it's about the life between rides, the music that inspires us, and the journeys, both on and off the bike, that shape our world.
Instagram @Okiefo
What's up? All of you beautiful people in cycling Oklahoma Nation or state or, I guess, nation and actually worldwide, because we do have people I don't know who they are that download every episode from all over the place. So super cool. Speaking of all over the place of this episode is one of a local legend that I did not know about until I actually started the podcast, and forest has been a was was a huge member of the mountain bike cycling scene back in the day and moved away and worked for Trek over the past. I think we said at like 18 years or so. He moved away to Wisconsin, has worked for Trek for a really long time and now works for a start up e-bike company. So forest, when I, when I tell people, I sit down and talk to him and got him on the podcast or was like oh my God, for us was the man he was so fast he had they started to start telling me all these stories. Like dang it. I wish I would have had all these stories in this information before. I said down with him but for street shout to me really shortly after the podcast started and said that he really enjoyed listening and kind of helped him reconnect with Oklahoma and all of his old riders and he knew a lot of the guys that we were talking to and that he used to ride with them and kind of started with them whenever he was riding and getting into bikes and stuff. So it was super cool for him to reach out and say man, I think I got some cool stories to share and then to find out how much of a local legend he was in the mountain bike scene is really really cool. So force was in town and we sit down and chat it and so everybody out there that has been in the Oklahoma cycling scene for a while I think you will really enjoy this one and get some good nuggets out of this. Force was an absolute great, great, great guy and I can't say thanks enough to him for for sitting down and chatting and taking the time out of his schedule whenever he was in town to get this done. So we've been trying to do this actually several times when he's come to Oklahoma and we finally were able to make that work. So I hope you really enjoy this one.
Speaker 1:With the winter and spring season here in Oklahoma is in full swing, the gravel races are kicked off and go on the mountain bike is right around the corner, with tour to dirt starting up in about a month. Actually, we got some six hour races that have been happening, so it is this dirt season and I hope everyone is out there enjoying that, and we got some really cool things coming. If I would just sit down and finish them up with cycling Oklahoma, so hopefully I'll get that on board in the next couple of weeks. Hopefully we have some really cool podcast recorded and or planned to be recorded over the next couple of weeks, so I think you're really going to enjoy the next handful of episodes. They're going to be really, really, really cool and none of this is possible without every one of you listening and telling other people about it. If you have people that you want to hear on here, let me know. If you want to be on here, let me know. And I want to say thank you so much to more overhead door for their continued support of the podcast and we have been an absolute game changer for the things that we're going to be able to do in this coming year, and I can't think them enough.
Speaker 1:So if you have a garage door need, if you're building a house and need to and need to get your garage door set for your house. You want to upgrade it. You got repairs that need to happen. Please reach out to more overhead door. They're supporting us, supporting our cycling community. They are racers themselves and if we can support them, please, please, please do that because they support us. So, more overhead door. They are located in more Oklahoma. The phone number is 405 7999214 absolutely great people over there and I can't recommend them enough. So thank you so much for their support.
Speaker 1:Guys, the weather is hopefully getting better soon. Get out, play bikes, hang out with your friends, enjoy everything that comes with getting outside and riding bikes. And it's just as Evan said on his podcast episode miles and smiles. So let's make it happen play bikes, miles and smiles, and I hope you have a wonderful day. Alright, forest, we're officially rolling now. This is gonna be a good one, because you actually have been following the podcast really since kind of the beginning since about the beginning, yeah, and you reached out to me very early on.
Speaker 1:You're like dude, I think I got some fun stories to tell and so I'm excited for this because I'm outside of the messages over the years that we've shared through social. I don't know anything about you. I intentionally didn't look much anything up outside of just a few of your pictures and stuff like that, because I didn't want to ruin this conversation. I wanted to kind of get to know you, as all the listeners get to know you. So I think, briefly, just start out with who you are, where you're at now, and then we'll kind of go back to the beginning and how cycling got you going okay, well, for Smith, around that now is a living.
Speaker 2:I live in Wisconsin, I was, I was in Oklahoma, you know, born and raised in Davis, oklahoma okay you know the home of Turner Falls, our Bucke mountains. Yeah, went to college in Norman at OU where I spent really the majority of my 20s and 20s and 30s race, you know, through the bike racing career in quotes and met a girl. We got married, moved to Wisconsin okay, got a job at track. I worked for almost 16 years okay and that's where I am now.
Speaker 1:Okay, not a track you're not a track anymore, not a track.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had a, we had a try to think the.
Speaker 1:PC way to say it yeah, no, it's some.
Speaker 2:They had a contraction.
Speaker 1:I suppose contraction, that's a good way to put it okay, was that suddenly post covid, post covid yeah, yeah, covid presented, presented some unique challenge. I'll be interested to hear more about that in detail because I mean just like seeing it from the inside of the industry on that side of the industry because I went through it on the bike fit side of the industry on the retail piece of it. So I'm really interested to dig into that with you a little bit, just kind of hear, yeah, thoughts of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean for one. Yeah, the. I remember the day that, you know, the day that the, the lockdown was, whatever, you know they were like everybody, go home, take, take what you need, don't come into the office until further notice. You know, and we're working from home and and these, these messages came, you know, came from, you know, came from upper management. Oh, we don't know what the, we don't know what the future is going to bring, you know, so be prepared, people, people might lose their jobs. There might be, there might be consequences, right, and we're like, oh no, oh, what do you know then? And then suddenly bikes started selling, you know, and it was like the, you know, the bread and butter bikes you know the four hundred dollar.
Speaker 2:You know the eight twenties gone, the, you know the didn't like the thousand dollar bikes gone and then the three thousand dollar bikes sold out and then suddenly it was like people had no problem buying the most expensive bike that they could buy, because it was the only bike that they could buy and they would just buy them. You're like what's going?
Speaker 2:on. You know this. This, this is how the boom looked from inside. It's like oh my god, well, we got a better put in, you know, but in order for bikes, we got to get bikes in the warehouse and. I remember there was a time when our, when our central central warehouse in Johnson Creek, wisconsin. You could look from one end of this warehouse to the other and see the other wall, you know which? It should be completely full of bikes and it's just an empty building and it was just so weird.
Speaker 2:I have it Yuri it was really weird yeah it's really weird and so now there aren't any bikes to sell and there's no parts. It's just really weird. So that these huge orders got placed for bikes and the way the vendors working, you know, overseas is whoever, whoever has the biggest order and pays up front gets to the top of the list, gets gets the first.
Speaker 1:I listened some really interesting cycling business podcast about that. How was a great? It's a it sucks but it was a great business tactic for the big players of like Trek, specialized, was got to crush the little guys because they could push them out, because they wouldn't be able to get parts, which, in turn, which it's business.
Speaker 2:It sucks, but it's business, and so it was very interesting yeah, and that's, that's kind of how kind of how it works, you know, and then you know the, and then the suppliers were building, you know, building new factories to meet the demands and then, and then you know, because there's always a lag, you know, trek kind of got ahead of it pretty early and started started raining things in but, but still, you know the vendors already, you know they're already up and running yeah and they're like oh no, you're taking these bikes and now and then now everybody, who's now all the consumers who have bought all of the bikes and I've gone back to work you know they're not gonna buy it, they're not gonna buy another $5,000 bike.
Speaker 2:They've got a nice bike and they might not even write it, they might sell it, and so now the market is just kind of flooded with right well, now you're seeing the industry just having a fire sale.
Speaker 1:I mean that had a buddy send me. It was a Scott mountain bike. It's beautiful to spark it's. It's a really nice bike, sweet, really sweet bike. And and I've looked at those forever, I mean before I bought the two that I have now it was the bike that I really wanted back then and I just couldn't pull the trigger on the price tag for it. And but now he sent it to me and it's like gosh, I think it was like 30% off, brand new and I'm like oh, so maybe spring time will be a time because it's not.
Speaker 2:Those sales aren't going away anytime soon no, no, no, no, I mean I'm not, you know, I wasn't really that. You know, like my, the job that I had was really super, super into sales. You know I was more product support, but but it's just really, yeah, you, you just not seeing, you just not seeing the demand for bikes like it was and everybody's got them on sale.
Speaker 1:Everybody's got too many bikes well, while we're on that topic, do you see, how do you see the industry before we go back to your beginnings in cycling? How, how do you see the industry continuing over the next like, say, 1824 months? Do you think it'll be the local retail retailers to take the first hit, or do you think it'll be brands that start to like, get absorbed by each other and merge To survive, like because something's gonna have to happen?
Speaker 2:So yeah, something is definitely gonna happen. You know, I visited a few shops here and it's you know like, and just even up into Wisconsin, just things you're slow, it's a slow time of the year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, on top of it, yeah but, yeah, I mean just bikes.
Speaker 2:Bikes just really aren't selling and, you know, sometimes it's like the higher-end bikes, you know because the people who are gonna buy the super expensive bikes are always gonna buy those bikes. Mm-hmm, they gotta have the new thing right and they can afford it right but, but, like those mom and the mom and pop you know, like the bread and butter bikes you know, whatever's like we call them. Yeah, it's kind of like you know, I don't know what's gonna happen, but I mean Trek specialized and giant, and you know the baby the big three or the big four?
Speaker 2:always gonna be there and but I think you know just some of the they're gonna be brands disappearing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Do you think they'll just get, think they'll just go out of business, go away? Or you think brands like a Trek would go in, because I don't know if they do this stuff or not? I mean, do they go in and buy smaller brands?
Speaker 2:In the past they did you know, I mean, you know, Fisher and Lamont.
Speaker 1:That's true among among those, but I see a little bit of that again. Maybe it's possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I don't see why it wouldn't happen.
Speaker 1:But again, I'm no it just depends on the industry expert like that. It just depends, I guess they have the technology that they want, or something like that. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean there's a lot. There's just so many good bikes out there so many. So you know cuz you know? Just paying attention to what you know, paying attention to what's out in the out in the world. It's really like. Like there are some small brands doing really just really awesome stuff.
Speaker 1:I was talking to a buddy about that on on a ride the other day, because in Oklahoma City you kind of just see the big brands like our. Our shops here kind of only carry the big brands for the most part you have ones like capital. I mean he carries like allied and See what else is he got, he's got factor and I think there's a couple shops that Buchanan's carries pivot, you know. So those aren't ones that you see everywhere. Yeah, but the other shops carry the Trek specialized Cannondale giant those kinds. In Wisconsin, I don't know if is it to most shops carry Trek clearly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's, there's a. There's a big Trek presence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, but there's so many brands that are overseas or in other parts, like small communities, that are just great branded. You know, like I don't see them here.
Speaker 2:I was always a fan of Kona. You know like I did a little, I did a little. You know Like my, you know like my last good season or race you know race on Kona. Uh-huh and that's just a really cool company. They're just really down to earth, really Really really good dudes, yep, and they build really good bikes, but they're just totally under the radar. You just don't really don't really see them. I don't know, you know, I don't even know if there's a Kona dealer in Wisconsin that I'm aware of.
Speaker 1:I don't think I've ever seen it here.
Speaker 2:Hmm, no, but you know it's just. They're just a cool bike.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, my last mountain bike was a Niner, loved it. Yeah, nobody carries Niner here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those are sweet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's so many cool brands.
Speaker 2:Yeah, pivot you. Like you said yeah, ibis you know, yeah, there, you know I got. I tried out the XC you know they're cross-country race bike last fall and I was like Badass, all right, well, might have to. Might have to swap the Super Cal for Mm-hmm for the XC, you know try to.
Speaker 1:yeah, are you still in the bike industry now?
Speaker 2:Sort of I am. I work for a company called fuel. Okay, which is? It's actually the guys, if you, if you're familiar with Buell motorcycles okay. It's. It's basically the engineering team From from there and Eric Buell okay. And they have. It's a startup of e-bikes and Eventually an e-motorcycle.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, it's, it's pretty, it's, it's pretty cool. You know it's like when. You know when, when I got let go from track, you know I was like, oh crap what. You know what I'm gonna do. Yeah, like it and I'm actually really good friends with Eric Buell. Like this is kind of connecting back to the, to the Music side of things.
Speaker 2:He's not playing a play on a band together, mm-hmm, and we became really good friends and and he was like well, you know, like if you need something to do, you know I can just set you up Mm-hmm up here, you can do it however long you want. And so so I kind of just like stepped in and I'm like, oh well, this is different, this is not track.
Speaker 1:You know I know glass doors.
Speaker 2:You know no cafeteria or on-site, you know on-site.
Speaker 1:True startup. Yeah, yeah, and so are they just like e commuting bikes e mountain bikes e commuting bikes Okay yeah, the.
Speaker 2:The whole purpose is like urban mobility Gotcha like a, like a, like a fast, long-range commuter bike. Okay, and it's not really. You know, it's a e-bike for people who aren't Really cyclist, because it doesn't use like a traditional bicycle drivetrain, it uses some, you know, it's a motor and gearbox as one unit Interesting and and it's just a belt drive.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh you know like a single-speed belt drive with an internal transmission in the In the mid-drive motor, interesting. So you know like if you've ever ridden an e-bike or dealt with e-bikes or service them, you know they're just, they're just brutal on chains and. Sets and you know just like the whole drivetrain just suffers immensely. And this is just a gates belt drive and it's just like zero maintenance.
Speaker 1:It's perfect for all weather conditions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's just perfect for the application because it requires no maintenance and these Typically the, the, the commuting crowd they don't want to. They don't want to mess around and they don't know.
Speaker 1:It's not, that's not their thing. That's not why they're in it. Yeah, they just want to get on the bike and pedal and go right.
Speaker 2:That's what this bike does. Interesting, yeah, so well, that's cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so is there. Is there a spin-off? So you see, like Silicon Valley, where, like you have, they all are there, like every tech brand is there right? Because they just all spin off of each other and one started there and then another one that talent. Is it like that around Trek is there other like little spin-off companies that are cycling industry related, just because Trek is in that part of the country?
Speaker 2:sort of. You know there's, there is a, there is quite a Quite, a, quite a cycling industry presence in Wisconsin, because you, you've got Trek and then you have Hayes. You know which? Hayes is the parent company of Manitou suspension. And you know the answer. The answer brand you know, so you have all that, and that's in Mekwan, wisconsin, which is just a little north of Milwaukee, and then in Madison there's Like Mongoose, mongoose and Sun Tour like.
Speaker 2:Sun Tour forks. You know, like you think it was kind of a low-end. You know it's. It is kind of a. They get a lot of low to mid, mid-range spec on mountain bikes but they do make some high-end race forks that are you know? Actually on the world cup, interesting really really cool, you know, like electronically you know electronic valve. You know, just like I'm like, oh, wow, something I'll look into. But yeah, there's like a, there's a lot of.
Speaker 2:You know, oh, and then Planet Bike Used to be a brand of components. You know they used to make lights and locks.
Speaker 1:Okay, like little doodads and thing the jigs you know and like in that was Bond Trigger. Up there, is it Bond Trigger's?
Speaker 2:owned by Trek. Yeah, is it.
Speaker 1:Do they have it there with? Yep? Okay, it's all in right there in HQ. Yeah, okay, gotcha all the engineering and development product.
Speaker 2:Okay is all there and yeah so that's there. Trying to think what? Trying to think what else is there? There's I know there's something that I'm not thinking of. Well, you know, in SRAM is in Chicago, mm-hmm, yep, so it's all right there. Yeah, so it's there and then what when?
Speaker 1:Waterford, you know like the old Waterford.
Speaker 2:You know the original Richard Schwinn. Like the spin-off from the Schwinn family, he was in Waterford, Wisconsin.
Speaker 1:Gotcha, they made a high-end steel custom, really really nice steel frames.
Speaker 2:They just recently closed down Gotcha.
Speaker 1:Oh no, it's like one of the icon. You know one of the icons of cycling.
Speaker 2:You know like a machine gun Finally was it's time, huh, yeah, you know, they just getting at retirement age, gotcha.
Speaker 1:Nobody wanted to, nobody wanted to.
Speaker 2:Compete in, you know, and that's a tough business, yeah, still frame, that's tough gig, yeah, especially now with carbon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like there's almost there's no you just have it cuz you want it. Yeah, it's kind of like the Thai bikes like yeah, they're beautiful, they're super cool. Yeah they're beautiful. They're beautiful, they're super cool. Mm-hmm, they're expensive and it's just you have a tie, you have a moots, because you just have the money and you want a moots, yeah, I will in it, or whatever has always been, has always been like In my radar, you know just.
Speaker 2:But they're just always so unattainable yeah.
Speaker 1:There's so many beautiful titanium custom builder out there now, yeah, that's just, you get it cuz you want it, not because of I mean, people that own Thai bikes might argue with me on that, but like you get a tight bike cuz you want a tie bike and they're just beautiful. Yeah, I mean the performance, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean there there's a performance aspect. Yeah, you want like, I mean seriously, if you want the most, most you're not beaten carbon at this, you're not gonna be carbon, not at this point, you know, and that was a, that was another cool thing about working for his working for Trek.
Speaker 2:Seeing how it happens from the inside pretty cool and like and another thing is like you know I, you know I will never say a bad, bad word about them because, like the people, the people who, the people who work there and the people who make, who make the bikes and Design them and engineer them or like they're real. You know, they're like you and me. They're like they're riders, they're not right. People who, who came from the refrigerator Manufacturing not just an engineer. Oh, this is. It just has to meet this Just as a fit in this equation.
Speaker 2:And well, you know, and yeah, it's fine, you know it's like everybody rides and if they're not like a hardcore rider when they start, you know, like you just see some amazing transformations of you, just in that community you don't have a choice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know you see the guy coming in kind of out of college and he's, you know, he's Doesn't look very fit, you know. And then suddenly you're like holy shit, this dude, this dude just lost like 50 pounds and just crushed him. You know, it's just because you're, because the the culture there really it really promotes, yeah, being well, I watched that, well, I don't know where the documentaries and all that stuff live now.
Speaker 1:But GCN plus had that trek documentary, yeah, and I watched that. Proof day in a a while back and it was really good and they talked about, you know, the lunchtime rides and the trails out behind the barn and all that kind of stuff and yeah, it was. It was super cool to watch.
Speaker 2:It was an interesting story. Oh, that stuff is real. You know, like, like, really they're like don't sit at your desk, don't sit at your desk and eat lunch, you know just go outside, you know, at the very least spend an hour, go to the trails, like we built these trails for you to go ride.
Speaker 1:So cool.
Speaker 2:And it's like oh well, I don't have a bike. They're like well, we have, we have loaner bikes. Go, take a loaner bike, you know that's awesome. Yeah, it was just sweet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's super cool.
Speaker 2:Just like, and it just really, it's a really good, good culture of promoting, promoting health, you know that's fun?
Speaker 1:Is the whole town kind of that way, how the Bentonville community is where it's become more of like that community has become more bike heavy because of the whole community there.
Speaker 2:It's kind of weird because Trek is in a small town. It's a waterloo, right Like if you've never, if you've never been there and had no, no, no concept of what it is. It would be like imagine Jones. I don't know Like kind of Jones, oklahoma or or or even think like Davis that the town is 3,336.
Speaker 1:Wow, it's that small.
Speaker 2:It's a tiny town.
Speaker 1:I didn't realize it was that small.
Speaker 2:There is a, there is a four way stop in the center of town.
Speaker 1:I had no idea it was that small.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just this little town and it was built up, you know, built around farming, so you know there's, like you know, corn, corn farms as far as you can see, and dairy farms and it's. But you know, like now, because Trek is there. It's a big employer, there's a lot of Trek employees who work there, but it's still like you.
Speaker 1:Still a small country town.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is, but what's, what's weird? It's like, okay, it's this country, town, but it's like these huge bike lanes through, and then there's, you know, there's kind of a like you know, the highway that that connects Waterloo to Madison is just fully built, bike lane the whole, the whole way. So it's like it's fully set up for bike commuting to and from track.
Speaker 1:It's funny, that's awesome. Well, let's go back. Let's get off a track. First thing, let's go back to you and how you got started. So have you ridden your whole life, or do you start in college Like, how did you get into the bike?
Speaker 2:So we all you know growing up, we all you know everybody.
Speaker 1:I must say everybody.
Speaker 2:But you know like people ride bikes from their kids.
Speaker 2:You know, and I was always that I was always the kid building jumps or trying to or trying to ride over things that I shouldn't ride over on my cheap BMX bike or whatever. And then, like once mountain biking started being a thing you know, like in the in the 80s, there was this, you know Huffy made like the replica you know you don't want to call it a real mountain bike, but you know it was like you know kind of resembled the original specialized rock hopper.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I had the little bull loose handlebars and it's called the Huffy Scout, you know.
Speaker 2:I take that thing over to. I lived in Davis and I would take it over to the Chickasaw National Recreation Area over there in Sulphur. When I was a kid my grandma dropped me off and I'd go and just ride the gravel trails over there around. You know, because you know I was. You know we were free range kids back then. So I just rode everywhere and it wasn't really you know, but I didn't really do it.
Speaker 1:I didn't ever racing there, they're just playing and having fun, just being a kid.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then I always did that. And then I went to college and you know I was going to OU and I just happened to walk into like Wheeler dealer. You know, dealer wants how to. They had a shop in.
Speaker 1:I didn't know. They had one in Norman. Yeah, yeah, right across from this, wheeler dealers totally researched now with a new owner and yeah, they researched all kinds of things. Yeah, it's good to see it's on the upswing again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I used I think I might have used some, some, some like student loan money or something to buy a Cannondale, you know. But like, like the you know, it was like the winter sale and they had a like a Cannondale SM 500, you know it was the hideous bike it was. It was splatter, you know splatter black with splatter, white and pink decals, and 80s, oh it's so 80s, so 80s, just do that thing.
Speaker 1:Is right back in style now.
Speaker 2:I know I was actually kind of rocked out a bunch of mine just bought the most beautiful ally BC 40.
Speaker 1:It did full custom everything. He was actually pistol Pete when he was in college and so he got the OSU orange and sent it out there and drumming was. They were able to put it together with the OSU color orange and they did the splatter black all over it and it is. It's kind of that 80s vibe, but it's the OSU colors. It's beautiful.
Speaker 2:It's super cool. Yeah, it's super cool. That's another. That's another brand that's doing some good stuff.
Speaker 1:They're doing some good stuff. Yeah, that's the only time I've ever gone to a factory, so you talking about getting to see it and see it from the inside drumming got us in to get to see the factory and how they make it all. It was super cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just super cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But so whenever you were riding in college you got you were always kind of been on the dirt. Is that kind of always been your thing? Yeah?
Speaker 2:And I, you know, I got on the road too, because that's how you would get fit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, kind of have to yeah.
Speaker 2:But I remember I was like my buddy, brian pulling, and you know like we went. We were high school buddies together. You know he was, he got a Fisher back in the oh man, I can't remember how it came up, but like the 12 miles of hell.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, oh, there's this thing down in Lawton.
Speaker 2:We should go, we should go do it, and I'm like I don't know what is this. We started training, we go over to. We go over to the Sulphur you know the trails over at Sulphur and and ride up Bromide Hill. You know it's a switchback climb. You know pea gravel and get ready for this race.
Speaker 1:It's amazing how many people have that race as their like thing. That kind of got them going.
Speaker 2:It was the biggest. It was the biggest thing. I've heard that so many times.
Speaker 1:I went down there and did a road race once and it was, they had it and that was. But I didn't know what any of that stuff was. Yeah, and by the time I had a clue, it was gone.
Speaker 2:I know it's just it's kind of a shame it was. You know, kind of looking back on it I was like, oh, it's just really a terrible core that's what everybody said.
Speaker 1:It's just fucking terrible.
Speaker 2:Like, like, but it was. It was so hard because you know, the climbs are like straight up, the descents were straight down.
Speaker 1:I've heard it was brutal.
Speaker 2:The rocks were razor sharp, if you like. They were either these razor sharp, you know, like this razor sharp rock, or else these giant like baby, baby heads and just smash into pieces and, like you did, not want to crash on that and and yeah, it was just, you know, we, we did that. I was like I finished it. I was like, holy shit, I am like this is what I want to do. Like you know, it was just the spark went off.
Speaker 2:Dude, do we like? I think it finished like 450th or something Like? I was like I had no idea what I was doing.
Speaker 1:But you finished.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I had my. I've got, you know, I've got photos from it, that's awesome. And I was like this old, stupid looking helmet and I had my grateful dead stickers on it. No, like a flannel, a flannel shirt and cut off.
Speaker 1:That's back in your.
Speaker 2:You know, all back down cut off sweat pants and a fanny pack.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, which are also back in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like dude, it's come full circle.
Speaker 1:It has been full circle. I'm cool. Yeah yeah, Fanny, pack and flannel. Now on a mountain bike is like you have to wear it. It's like it's not an option.
Speaker 2:It's like the uniform, it's uniform, yeah, and so yeah, and then, you know, the next year came around and I, you know, I did it, did it again, and I think I finished a little bit higher because I was, you know, like because then I was hooked on riding and I was like riding more out of you know, and living in Davis at the time, I was going back up in behind Turner Falls and riding back up in there, like me and my buddy Mark Oakley, we would.
Speaker 2:We would just like jump over fences, just go ride these, these cattle, trail roads, whatever, back up in behind Turner Falls and just ride it until just so we couldn't get any further. Then we'd get chased out by the landowner. You know we were totally trespassing.
Speaker 1:We had gravel before. Gravel was cool yeah.
Speaker 2:We had no idea like what we were doing and you know back in behind camp class and got kicked out of there a few times and like Just exploring, yeah, just exploring. But, man, you know, I just go in there every day and so I didn't miss hard. You know it's climbing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's where, like, I developed, I guess, my technical skills or whatever, because if you ride on loose rocks all the time and you just, you just get good at it, you know, and so you know, like I came back here a couple of years ago and did medicine part, yeah, that trail is no joke. Oh God, I was like. I was like, yeah, this is just like how it was back in the day. That places and yeah, just pummeled Absolutely.
Speaker 1:It will beat you to death. Yes, you know I used to.
Speaker 2:You know, I used to think. You know, like Tom Stede, you know, like the Tom Stede race back in the day, that Steve is.
Speaker 1:It's Steve. Steve is a place that I think it's very much like medicine park except medicine park. You can fall to like serious injury. Oh, steve, you're just going to fall and like hurt yourself. Yeah, you're just going to get hurt, you're just going to hit a big rock and it's not going to feel good. But medicine park you can fall to like bad things yeah.
Speaker 2:That's the best of them, but they're very similar. Yeah, I remember, you know, but I always, I always did well at.
Speaker 1:Steve. Steve is so hard, I've only raced it once. It was hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. It was hard, but you know I liked that stuff, you know because, like you know, like I never, I never really had like that roadie fitness. You know like just you know, just being able to like power away from people. You know like I always kind of leaned on, leaned on handling, you know and and if it was a muddy race I'd be like, oh yeah it's on, you know, like as long as my, as long as it didn't break something on my bike it's good you know if it's a super rocky, super technical race.
Speaker 1:It's a different world. I watched the because I I'm continuing to try to develop that skill is clearly not there still. But I'd go down a ride with the guys at medicine park and every race up here. You just ride away from them because it's just turny and fast, right, we can get away from them. But you go down there and I can get to everything first, and then they come, yeah, and they come past you, just like picking their way through the lines, real slow and methodical, and I get to the top, I'm gassed, I can't breathe, I can't, I'm just foaming at the mouth and they're like not out of breath, they're totally like normal and they just like smooth and slow. All the way up the climb, picking, picking it apart. All the way up I'm just like ramming into stuff and bouncing and running around corners, kind of seeing the line and connecting, you know, kind of connecting the dots in their head, you know yeah.
Speaker 1:And the skill that that takes going uphill over chunky rocks is just, it's incredible.
Speaker 2:You know, like I remember it's cool to watch Back in. You know, back in the nineties and I was racing, I think, beginner, and we'd go to, we'd go to Tulsa, you know, when Turkey, turkey mountain, turkey mountain was once raw.
Speaker 1:Yeah, back when it was really nasty Like I haven't been out there, they've tamed it down a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I haven't been out there since, since I left Oklahoma.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh, it's completely different.
Speaker 2:But I remember we would go and we'd watch the experts ride and there was this dude, Freddie Hearth. You know, I don't know if he's still around, but you know, like the dudes back in the day, and like 93, 94, Freddie Hearth and Dan Burrell and Dan's brother, Dave, and these dudes are just bruised through there, Like I just remember, you know, we go to like the, the, the rockiest section of Turkey, and we and we'd watch these dudes ride. And then you know, and here come Freddie over the, you know, like over this rock, and he just fly through the rock garden, just skipping over the tops of.
Speaker 1:I'm like how the fuck do you know? I don't know how to do it.
Speaker 2:And Bobby Turner, this, this guy, bobby Turner was, was kind of the local hotch and Tulsa, you know, and I, you know, eventually, like I ended up riding with him and you know, and I was like man, how the how do you? How do you do this? Like you have to go fast enough to where you're basically skipping over the top. You're only touching the tops of the rocks, cause once the once you start getting into the dips in between the rocks is when you get bucked.
Speaker 1:you know I was like oh. But, man, you better not miss the line, yeah.
Speaker 2:Stay on the gas pedal through it, like with all you got.
Speaker 1:you know and I had that same experience last year. First race of tour de dirt was at Keystone and I don't know if you've ever ridden there.
Speaker 1:I've ridden Keystone and there's a section of Keystone and it's not hard, it's just real bumpy and you can get through it, but it's just not fun. And I hear it's like the second lap. I hear drumming coming. He's getting ready to lap me already and when he comes through there I'm again gas, because I'm super inefficient in the big chunky rocks and I'm picking my way through it and he's I'm like you know, come on to the right and he just like same thing, just skips right across the top and it he didn't even like. It's like his suspension didn't even work because it was on top of everything right through it.
Speaker 2:And he's talking to me like, yeah, man, just come on, come jump on. I'm like I hate you, I hate you yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, If you make a mistake doing that, it's going to be tragic, but if you do it, yeah, watching them it's so smooth and easy and effortless. And I'm over here about to die and try not to hurt myself, but it is. It is a special skill.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you know I never. I never rode with him. You know he came on the scene app like after I left but you know, my understanding is he came from a moto background.
Speaker 1:And so you know that's a different.
Speaker 2:That's a different wiring. All you know he's used to seeing shit at 40 miles an hour, yeah, they just let it rip and hold on.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's a, that's a different. But watching that, watching those guys on technical rocks, is it's an art yeah.
Speaker 2:And then it's. But I promise you, if you keep at it, it'll get better.
Speaker 1:It'll get better yeah.
Speaker 2:It's just. It just takes practice and and and confidence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the big thing. You just got to you, just got to trust it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the bikes are. So your bike is so much better than the bikes we were riding, but it'll take it, yeah.
Speaker 1:You just got to do it, oh man. So you know, you just got to race mainly mountain bikes through the nineties.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I did, I did, I jumped in you know road stuff. Then you know like I got a. I got a road bike in 94, you know, just like a cheap giant KDEX or something like that, and I started doing, you know, just started doing the local rides out of the shopping norm and Buchanan, back when it was owned by Freddie Karcher, and riding with the CRRC guys and Stephen Cate, yeah, and Gus Tietzor and Clay Ford and Randy Soto and and all you know, all those guys, you know the original bacon boys.
Speaker 2:You know like what else I know, as mentioned mentioned these guys and so, you know, just started doing the group rides with them and you know, and, and you know, being a mountain biker going on a like a structured group ride was, was something else. You know, like. You know he's like hey, dumbass, what are you doing? You know, like, why are you?
Speaker 1:why are?
Speaker 2:you rolling off the front. You know, this is like you know there's so much to it, yeah. You know, and back in the days you know, people would yell at you and you would, and you would be receptive to it. And there was, you know, you learned, you learned etiquette right.
Speaker 1:You know, now it seems like it's a little different, but but, but that same mentality still exists, because there are times, because I came from multi sport, which is clearly the same thing.
Speaker 1:You like you have no clue, because you're always riding by yourself. Yeah, right, right. But then I started training and I worked at Schlegel's and all the stuff. So you start riding with these guys, so you pick it up pretty quicker. Yeah, learn, and I'm not fit compared to these guys, so I better figure it out so I can just stay in the group and but still, sometimes you go out and go on a group ride and it's either a multi sport athlete or a mountain biker and they're in the group and you're like dude, get over to get to the left.
Speaker 1:So, everybody can ride because the wind's coming from the left Like right.
Speaker 2:Huh.
Speaker 1:Never thought about it, where they're riding in their back wheels, just all over the place.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Just, please, calm down. Just, you're going to wreck the whole group, yeah. Or when you pull through, do this, don't just gas it all the way. I know and it's, there's a lot of group etiquette that if you just have never been around it, you just don't know, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:And this this sounds like this will become a tangent. But one thing I've noticed, like you know, like I'm, you know, I, you know, I raced enough road, you know, did crits, you know. I was always like a cat three. I've never, I, never, I never had a vision beyond. It's like I just, I just want to do road stuff to be fit. I really loved watching. You know I could watch the tour to France.
Speaker 1:Yep Same.
Speaker 2:When the cycling, you know, like this, before the internet, you know, like when last years flesh will on would be released on video.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know and, in the fall, you know like six months after the race. You know we'd all watch it, you know, man. Look at, andre Schmiel is just covered in mud, just kicking ass.
Speaker 1:It was a year ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was just the coolest thing you know just like see the photos in the in the magazines. Just like these hard, these fricking hard Euro dudes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like yeah, man, I want to do that, you know, it's just so badass and we go out and go ride some gravel roads.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like Perry Rubay, it's just cool, yeah. But yeah, back to the viewpoint, back to the etiquette thing. It's like one thing I've noticed. Like you know, I go on group rides now and it seems like everybody's new. You know like I don't recognize, you know like I don't, I have not seen any of these people before you know, and then you're like oh well, yeah, because they're new and they're doing. They're doing things that that aren't.
Speaker 1:They just don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like why are you riding on the center line? Yeah, and then you try it and you know, then people yell at them and then they get mad, and then they're not as receptive to criticism as we used to be, you know like you know, there's a different way of saying it now for sure yeah, yeah, it's not tough love anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it was. I was over there talking to Chad and Evan. Yeah, I think it was yesterday over there and we kind of had this conversation. It's like, yeah, you just have to. It's like you have to have clinics for it now yes, 100%. And it's like I have a nice little conversation with them and yeah, because you, it's like you can't really raise your voice anymore and yell at people.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:It's like people getting mad. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:And it's weird. It's funny because whenever you go out and do a because now group rides kind of all have they all kind of have their niche in the community now, which has been great. It's much better than whenever I started, where you'd show up and they're like, oh, it's a smooth, slow ride, and then somebody gets on the front and decides that turns into a race and then it's just blows apart and then it's not fun. Now there are group rides that I like that. But you know, going into it, that's what it's going to be. But if a group ride says, hey, we're going to roll at 18, they're going to roll at 18. So that's significantly better than it used to be. But there are still times when she get out there and some of the old school guys are like letting it rip and being being the old school roadie and it does not. They're not. People might not say anything to them, but it is very well not received on the back end, you know, because it's just things are different.
Speaker 1:You know, good or bad, it's just different. Yeah, but it's just the way it is. But you know, I do think it's. And you have so many people that came into sport recently, the past three or four years, Yep and then you know, like maybe they got on Zwift or whatever and they became really strong and then they ride with their one or two buddies so they just flat out don't know how to ride with 30 other people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're like, that's another that's another, that's another recent phenomenon is the is the advent of indoor training and people and people just getting crazy strong but not developing the skills that it takes to, you know, to to get that fast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, it's like oh come, come watch the first couple of races at Wheeler every year. Oh yeah, because people come off their winter fitness, you know, and newer people that have not done Chris are like I want to do it this year, and they take that first corner, especially in the sea race going, you know, 25. Oops, and it's kind of got the little bit of the little brick and lays in the corners, you know, and it, yeah, it's, yeah, it's, it's great to watch.
Speaker 2:I bet, yeah, I'm what. No part of that action. Check out going into that first turn and just going to watch the model.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you watch the first turn of the last turn. There's always some action, oh man, always some action, oh man, it's freaking brutal, but it's yeah, it's good, but it's man, it is entertaining. Yeah, did you, so you moved away from here. It would have been early 2000s.
Speaker 2:It was 2006. Okay so after college.
Speaker 1:Did you get into the bike industry in college or after college? No, no, I was working in bike shops.
Speaker 2:I worked, you know, like I'm just a, you know, because I thought I was. You know well, because I was. I was in college and you know, just trying to trying to work hours you know I would just work a you know a few bikes. I worked at Owls for a little bit very early on and then once I was, once I was done with college, you know I just kind of I I got in at budget bicycles, which is now bike one, oh, okay.
Speaker 2:And worked there, worked there for a few years, you know, because it's like you know and no-transcript. It paid enough to meet your bills. And then I was just fast enough to where I could get, like quote unquote, sponsorship from a client or whatever. So they'd just set me up with a frame and. I'd build it up with last year's components or something like that, or I'd buy a XTR kit or a build kit whatever, and build it up and race and sell the bike and you know, just kind of turn it over like that.
Speaker 1:It's a true bike bum lifestyle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just kind of a bike dirt bag.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't yeah.
Speaker 2:And so, and then I worked at Wheeler dealer for a few years. Up there I worked with Chad Shanks.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and we were in the Chad's doing great things with his shop.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm really proud of him, man, it's cool to see Him and his wife are good, good people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they've done a great job down there.
Speaker 2:He was always like top notch mechanic, you know, just like working alongside him. You know I could see like if he was going to stick with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:He'd be fine.
Speaker 1:Marty's going over to Wheeler, is it?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going to been trying to get over and go see him. Yeah, yeah it's. That's always been a cool shop.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm glad to see the. Glad to see the.
Speaker 1:The life is back in it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was For sure Kind of disappeared there for a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it really did. Yeah, but it's nice to see it on the upswing again. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I did that and then. So it was really that was kind of the bike industry beginnings, and then I worked for less Banta for a little while I don't know if you know him yeah, I do know less. Yeah, I worked at Double Life for a while doing like, like quality control for and just like assembling pumps, you know, just like whatever you know whatever they needed, and then that's about the time that I left and and did you leave for Trek?
Speaker 2:No, I actually didn't. This is, this is like another. This is like another. This is another tangent. Yeah, I met my wife. She was from, she was from Wisconsin, but we had we kind of run into each other here and there. You know, when I was, you know I was doing some pretty serious racing back in the early 2000s. You know I was traveling a lot, going to. You know I go to Utah, go to go to Arizona, and like every now and then I just like see this chick, you know, and talk to her or whatever. And then and then one day it's like out of the blue icon, mice on my back in the day in my space.
Speaker 2:I get this note like hey, you know, and we started just chatting on there and it's just like this is a really. This sounds absolutely crazy, but we knew each other for three months, like actually hanging out. I was in Oklahoma, she was in Wisconsin, and we knew each other for three months and got married.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, I had gone up there. And how many years ago was that?
Speaker 2:It was coming up on 18.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in February it'll be like 18 years. That's wild Right, I'm like, I just like I look back on your internet dating before internet dating Right, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:And we were just like talking on the phone a bunch and, and she came down here and stayed a few days. And then I went up there and stayed a few days and she came down here and it was literally it was like four trips Her down here twice, me up there twice. We got married on May 22nd and I stayed. She flew back home. No, I'm sorry, we got married up there. I flew back home and I didn't move up there until July 3rd. Oh my gosh, you know it was just. And I was like, because the plan was like, should we come down here? And then, you know, my job was kind of playing out and I was like, well, I guess I'll come up there. You know, might as well. And so I backed up all my crap and drove it up to Wisconsin and I was like, okay, well, we'll only be here for a little bit, because my aspirations have always been to get, to get west, to get in the mountains to get to.
Speaker 2:you know, always wanted to live in Durango, because Durango is like second home for me. I did lots of racing there. I would go twice a year for the Iron Horse and for whatever summer race they have. They have an AMBC race there and so you know the goal was like flagstaff you know, somewhere west. And then you know, I got a job at Wheel Sprocket as like service manager there and that was cool you know, it's like one of the bigger stores in the United States.
Speaker 1:It was a really awesome company.
Speaker 2:Everybody works there, Super cool. And then I just see this ad and I don't even remember where I saw it. It was like they were hiring for some cool tech job at Trek. It was like, oh, assembly validation. And I read the description it's like, oh, that sounds pretty cool and I just applied for it. And then within a couple of weeks they hired me.
Speaker 1:You know, I was like wow, all right, cool.
Speaker 2:So I guess I'm going to live in Wisconsin now. All right, yeah. So we refer to it as the bear trap. It's kind of the thing that has held us there.
Speaker 1:So you're going to stay there? Are you going to visit your Colorado dreams at some point?
Speaker 2:The goal is to move away.
Speaker 1:Still got the mountain dream, still got the itch. I love it.
Speaker 2:But it's like everywhere is so expensive.
Speaker 1:Crazy.
Speaker 2:And just being kind of a bike industry guy, there's, like you know, you just don't.
Speaker 1:You can get a job anywhere, but everywhere you want to be? Is you're making bike money? Yeah?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just not Colorado lifestyle.
Speaker 1:Colorado budget it's not ideal.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's the sucky part.
Speaker 2:You know like, but you know all of our, you know like all of our expendable income goes to travel, because it's like anytime we get a vacation, it's like, okay, we'll go for sure, travel Same. Like you know, the only thing we really spend money on it yeah. Well, shit, you know we're already in Flagstaff, we're already really where I want to be, so like we don't really need to travel money, you know, just live normal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true. Yeah, your money just stays there instead of going somewhere else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like you know, I'm already where the cool stuff is, and if you're already, you know, if you're already West, then you're already that much close to all the other cool places.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Because if you're in Flagstaff you're like a three-hour, four-hour drive for everything cool. Right, right, yeah, it's like oh, and that's how he's like. In four to six hours, I can be everywhere. I can be on the beach in Mexico, I can be skiing in the mountains, I can be in LA, I can be in Vegas, I can be in these most amazing parks in Utah. Yeah, Like it doesn't matter. In four hours to six-hour drive, yeah.
Speaker 2:You just already there in all the cool stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean and I'm not bagging on Wisconsin it's got its, you know, it's got its own cool stuff. You know, the area we live is in. You know we got we have the. It's what called the Southern Kettle Moraine National. You know the state forest and we have a trail system that is, you can ride 32-mile continuous loop and not see the same thing. You know that's cool.
Speaker 2:And then within that there are more like small loops. So, like you know, I don't even know what the total mileage is, but you know, like I go out every you know, weather permitting every weekend and do that, do that 32-mile loop, that's awesome and my deal is, like always, like I gotta be a little bit faster than last time.
Speaker 1:You know, like I don't, I don't really race anymore. Uh-huh.
Speaker 2:But you know, like I'm always racing myself, I was like am I better than yesterday?
Speaker 1:Am I better than last week? That doesn't stop. I don't think yeah.
Speaker 2:And so it's just like you know, it's like okay, well, like I got hung up in that sandpit, you know here, so I got you know, just got a nail at this time yeah. And I don't really, you know, I don't really get too, too bothered. If you know somebody passes me, I'm just like oh it's alright, I'm 51 years old, Whatever you know like.
Speaker 1:Going back to your race and and you said you were racing in Durango and stuff like where did you get to with your racing? That you were like man, this is like. This was the pinnacle, this was the peak of what. Where I was, where I was out on the trail on the mountain biking, yeah, I think it's kind of it's kind of weird. You know, like I'm my Did you do a lot of regional races, or yeah?
Speaker 2:I'd raced a lot around, you know, obviously raced the Tour de Dert series. Did, did that, you know, competed in that every year. You know like at the time the attendance wasn't really what it is now you know, because it was kind of in a lull. And so I, you know like I had a lot of really good results in Oklahoma and I'm like well, you know, like really a lot of people you know I you know, I try not to get too big headed about it, you know you know it was a.
Speaker 1:Now's your time to brag.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was a big fish in a small.
Speaker 1:Now you're time to reminisce.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, but I mean it was cool, I mean I like I guess, if you look at the numbers, you know, it's like I've won the, the Tour de Dert eight times.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, that's a lot An expert, uh-huh.
Speaker 2:And go down to Texas and race and Texas is certainly more competitive. And you know I'd be like top 10 down there, okay, and I'm like, you know, like top five if I was having a really good day, you know, and that was that was good, you know, but they're always fat, you know the things you learn. It's like no matter how badass you think you are.
Speaker 1:Go to a real market and see what happens.
Speaker 2:You go, you go somewhere else and there's going to be some dude who's just going to demolish it, you know, and it's just like okay, this is the ego check.
Speaker 1:You know, I wish more people would do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because people that think they're good, yeah, locally, and it doesn't matter, it's work Cause I came from that in the golf world. Um, growing up and in college and after college, guys hear that you're like man, that guy's so good, but he's not, he's locally good, he's not like real good, you know. And then this big time in cycling you see a guy here and you're like that guy crushes everyone here. And then, well, victor's a perfect example. Victor is a great, great human. The dude is so fast, like an amount by grace here, like we go to a six hour race. He'll win by forever and then he'll be the fastest two man relay team by himself. I mean, the dude is so fast, but then he goes to one of those big mountain bike races and he'll do great and he'll finish like 15th or 20th. And you're like, how fast are those 20 guys? Like that is wild.
Speaker 2:Cause. I know how fast.
Speaker 1:Victor is and those they're in the guys might be him by like just a crazy end of margin and I'm like there's always somebody faster.
Speaker 2:Always, and I remember when I was racing, when I was racing sport back in the day. I guess that's what is it? Cat three?
Speaker 1:now I'm not, I'm not sure, I think yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure how it lines up, but you know, back in the day it was beginner sport expert semi pro.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, they. Just they don't have the top one now. Yeah, just like a one, two and three.
Speaker 2:So you know. So it had been cat two and I was just. You know, I was winning all of the races locally in sport like just by minutes.
Speaker 2:And the one of the one of the guys race, race to expert. You know good good friend of mine. You know I kind of I kind of see like there were two dudes who were kind of my mentors is Freddie Harth and Dan Burrell, and Freddie was like man, you've got to cat up. It's like you're just sandbagging. It's like you're never going to get any faster if you don't, if you don't race people who are faster. You've already beat all of these people Like you've already. You've already done the thing.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:It's like race expert. I was like, oh, I don't know, I don't think I'm fast, you know cause? I was like, oh, I got to get just like a little bit faster. Like have my average speed on my road bike be 23 miles an hour on this 20 mile ride. That's not going to. You know, and I was. You know it was like kind of data driven before there was that. I was like, I don't know, my numbers don't show it, and it was like to just, you know, just cut up.
Speaker 2:And I did and, like you know, just I was like, oh, and so I'm like racing Freddie and Dan and all these dudes and I'm like, oh shit, they're just like riding away from me. But you know, within within a couple of months, I was on them.
Speaker 1:For some reason, it kind of you kind of figure it out yeah.
Speaker 2:So you have to. It just causes you to step up your game.
Speaker 2:And that was that was always kind of my thing. It was like, okay, well, I know the dudes are faster in Arkansas and I know the dudes are faster in Texas and Colorado, you know. So, like that's where I want to go and you know it. Just, it always kind of proved to myself you know, you're not really, you know you're, I mean you're, you know I could hold my own, but you know, like I wasn't going to, you know I wasn't going to go in and win a Texas series race because you know, down there back in the days it was Will Black and Stu Stafford and these dudes that were just basically pros. I did pretty well in Arkansas, you know, I think I won the Devil's Den race in 2004.
Speaker 2:That was a. That was a. That was a good year. Like, I think 2004 is probably my best best year race.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Did, did, I don't know, did lots of traveling that year. You know, you know, went out to, went out to Durango, raced, raced at purgatory, at altitude, died a thousand deaths but still like I was, like my kryptonite yeah me too. I just, I just made some really dumb, dumb decisions. You know, I'm, you know, like I've got ADHD and I'm, you know, pretty impulsive and I'm just going to go out there and do it and oh man, that doesn't work very well. Altitude Crushed, yeah, but whatever you know, I had a good time.
Speaker 1:Do you think you'll ever get back into racing?
Speaker 2:A little bit. I think about it once in a while. Like every year, there's this quote unquote race and then that local trial is turned into 30, you know, and it's like a it's it's a it's a timed event you know, in quotation marks and so you know I do that every year and I did come back in, I think, 2001 and I did, I did a couple of tour de durg races. This is back when Corey was doing his little YouTube, facebook whatever Wednesday.
Speaker 1:Yeah, corey, corey needs to fire that back up.
Speaker 2:Oh, so he got me fired up. I was like I was like damn, I'll come down and race tour de durg again, Just like I was like fuck it, I'll just cause he would always have his little beverage there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, corey needs to fire that back up.
Speaker 2:I mean he generated a lot of enthusiasm for me you know, just like I'm tuning in every Wednesday and I come down to Madison Park.
Speaker 1:And I'm like, oh God, I really regret this.
Speaker 2:You know I did the Clear Bay race. That year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, clear Bay is always a great one. I loved it.
Speaker 2:You know it's a kind of it's fun, you know, like you know it's in there with Jeremy Black and everybody and I don't know. It's just a good time. Yeah, stephen Schmidt he was you know, just super, super cool guys. You know it's like, it's like. No, I'm back at a, just cool you know, I agree it's, it's a.
Speaker 1:That's what pulled me in, because when I was doing the Malt Sport, I'd gotten to the point where I'm just like dude, I'm just, I'm over the Taipei douche-iness, like it just burns you out after a while, and then went and did a mountain bike and I'm like everybody's just tatted up a little bit of it, like everybody's super fit, but they don't necessarily physically look super fit, but inside they're like, really fit. Everybody just wants to talk about like having a beer, talking about their dogs camping, cheering everybody on laughing, talking as you pass people or as they pass you, and I'm like man, this is just so like everybody's here to do their best and the people that are here to race race are here to race race, but they're still so pleasant and nice and everybody's just here to like hurry up and get done so we can have a beer and talk and laugh Like this is amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just about the experience and being outside and playing bikes.
Speaker 1:Just let's. Mountain biking is much about playing bikes, as it is anything else.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, it's just fun.
Speaker 1:It's just so fun.
Speaker 2:You know, like if you're, you know, like if you're just really in the zone and you're just, you know, you're just cruising through a single track and you just lose track a ton.
Speaker 1:It's meditative. Mountain biking is a moving meditation. It is yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like really, you know, it's good for my brain, it's like me too. It's, it's I kind of describe it as my medicine, you know, like it's like if I don't, if I don't do it, I'm pretty grumpy you know, yeah, and you know, and I try to, you know I, you know I try to be do something physical every day, you know just just to keep my, keep my brain circuitry.
Speaker 1:Yep, for sure, before we, before we get into the yard sale stuff. I know you said you played music, yeah, so tell me about the music.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I played when I was a kid. I like I don't know something with drums.
Speaker 1:Okay, you and Marty talk about drums. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah he's got his little.
Speaker 2:He's got his little drum channel. I'm like, how can I do that? You know, like I'm I'm not really Technically savvy like that. I'm like, how can you sync up the drums and the music at the same time? That's really cool, because I would like to do that, but I don't have the patience for it.
Speaker 2:You know I'm not gonna spend money on that you know and but yeah, I, you know I started out with, like you know, beating on buckets and stuff with my mom I'm probably got sick of that and got me a drum set and when I was like 12, 11 or 12, and you know, I just picked it up on my own and throughout, you know, kind of his years, progressed through high school, met, met my buddy, paco, who is still my best best friend of this to this day.
Speaker 2:That's awesome and he was. He was a bass player in our band and we basically, you know, in my teenage years, we had a Metallica cover job for more for, more for better.
Speaker 1:You know, we did like.
Speaker 2:Metallica in this fits covers and. Sam Hain, and you know, just like you know, we just played metal.
Speaker 1:You know thrash metal.
Speaker 2:You know, it was like that it was the that was, yeah, it was the. It was the late 80s and that's yeah and that's what we wanted to do. And we had a band all throughout college and kind of transitioned to like a I don't want to call it an artsy but you know it's kind of more Nick Haven, the bad seeds influenced, you know, just kind of. You know we were the band that the musicians would come and watch. We didn't really like attract the.
Speaker 1:Ladies or the dancers or anything you know, because we played for ourselves and we played for musicians, and that's what we did. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I had a. I had a real close. I had a real close mess with, with the, the band, the wall flowers. I had a. A friend of mine was good friends with Jacob Dylan and when they were needing a, when they were forming and and Going to need a drummer, you know he dropped my name and and somehow I had brief communication with Jacob Dylan about going out and auditioning and in, you know, and Making the cutter whatever and.
Speaker 2:And I was in college and it was mid, you know, it was midterms and I was like, oh, dude, I just can't, I Can't do the college is too important, you know. And I was like and I kind of thought, well, how good, you know, how good is this anyway. And he sent me a demo and I listened to it. I was like, oh, it's not that great because it was recorded in his home studio right a day with a drum machine and I was like.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh no, I just can't, you know. And I got my own band and we're doing our thing and we're gonna do something. You know, we're gonna be great yeah happen but but yeah, then the next summer, the summer of 95. I remember just playing his day, like that. The one headlight and I was like that was the song that was on the demo. Oh, shut up. I was like oh.
Speaker 2:Shit man and then come to find out. You know, like the, the guitars for the wall flowers was also a cyclist huh and and he. They ended up being real tight with Lance Armstrong back in the day for better for us, but you know, they played the ride for the roses. Oh shut down in Austin and they were like super tight and they go to the Tour de France and you know it's like Damn boy I miss that one.
Speaker 1:That was the one that was that would have been.
Speaker 2:That was the shot. Pretty cool, yeah, I would have been pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they all worked out, just in a different way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's all fine. Yeah, you know, I'm like all right.
Speaker 1:See you still play.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I still play, we, you know are you in a band now?
Speaker 1:Are you still play just for fun and kind of?
Speaker 2:just kind of play, play For myself you know, like, like I said I'd, I've been in a few bands here and there and I met my good friend Eric. You know Eric Biel through through a bit through bands and that's kind of and he wants to do like an outlaw country project soon.
Speaker 1:I was like what kind of music do you like to play now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I like to play everything, you know, cuz I'm, you know, just just like with cycling, I you know, I try to kind of push, push the envelope of like okay, well, you know, I'm not, I'm not formally educated in music or anything, but I'm like I think I can try to play, that you know right. So you know I try to play Latin. You know, like Latin Caribbean grooves. Or you know jazz. You know jazz is pretty hard.
Speaker 2:I'm like you know, I'll give, I'll give tool a shot. Mmm, it's like the videos on.
Speaker 1:I know you've seen them, the videos of Danny Curry where he just listens to a song for like three seconds. It's the Drummer from chili peppers. Oh, chad Smith yeah and have you seen those videos on YouTube?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, the drumming over here, and he just like sits there and listens, for like He'll listen to us, he'll listen to a song For like I can't remember how like the first 15 seconds or 30 seconds of a song, and then they turn it off, and then he played. Then they turn it on with the drums out and he'll play it. If anybody has not seen these videos, it's pretty awesome, it's remarkable. Yeah it and the and he hits in pauses and everything in the exact spot.
Speaker 2:He nailed all of the accents. Yeah, he nailed the whole feel of the song I can't remember. It was like I think it was a 21 pilot song that he played.
Speaker 1:I've seen him do. I've seen two or three of them. I've seen him do a 30 seconds to Mars.
Speaker 2:That's it, yeah, yeah, and it was a number yeah.
Speaker 1:It was 30 seconds to Mars, and there was another one. I've seen two or three of them and every time I'm just like what the hell is going on here?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's incredible. Yeah, he's. I mean, he's a pro, it's so cool.
Speaker 1:I just because I'm not a music person so I don't even understand how that's possible. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I always, always, always watch those videos because you know, of course, drummer, I'm always like watching the Drumeo channel. And you know they'll have different guys on, like they had just recently had my Portnoy from Dream Theater on, you know like super good drummer, and had him play a nickel back song that he never heard. You know like I'm like a nickel back, you know, and he just crushed it. I was like I don't understand it. Yeah, yeah, it's just cool, you know like it's so cool.
Speaker 1:Drums are so cool because I don't understand it because I'm so uncoordinated with my feet, especially my hands. I'm okay with my feet to have each limb doing something different. Yeah, I don't understand how it's physically possible.
Speaker 2:It's something you know, just something that I always did.
Speaker 1:It's like reflex.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you just have a, just have a feel for it. But you know, like me, like I can't really play guitar, you know.
Speaker 1:I don't have that finger dexterity.
Speaker 2:I see dudes just like shredding. I'm like how do you do Like you know, like I have trouble like playing guitar, like getting plucking the string and moving it from you know, moving my finger on the fretboard at the time it's supposed?
Speaker 1:to happen.
Speaker 2:And it's like I can't. I'm a drummer but I can't make that connection.
Speaker 1:That's interesting.
Speaker 2:You know like. So yeah, I guess everybody's got everybody's got the thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's just something, you get a, you get a feel for it, and once you've played enough songs, you kind of get like, okay, well, here's okay. Well, here's the A part, and you kind of understand. And then okay, and four more measures. It's going to change and you got to kind of find the rhythm. Yeah, the stuff kind of telegraphs itself, if you've heard Interesting yeah, it's kind of. It's kind of cool.
Speaker 1:Interesting. Well, all right, you've heard enough of these podcasts over. Thank you for being such a good supporter of it. We're going to do yard sale, so let's jump in. So actually I have my phone because I thought of a couple of other questions the other day that we're going to add to yard sale. But the first one, of course, that everyone gets favorite piece of equipment under $100.
Speaker 2:For cycling, I would say a good tail, a good bright tail, like you know, like the Bontrager Bontrager flare, you can see it from. You can see it from miles away or a mile away. I think it's probably one of the one of the best things you can do for personal safety on the road. Agree, it's a shame that you have to do it, right. But if yeah, if I'm yeah, if I'm going to say something is really worth worth spending the money on. That's under $100, that is going to be it.
Speaker 1:What's a? What's a favorite bike you've ever ridden?
Speaker 2:Favorite bike I've ever ridden, man, I got to say, like for mountain bike, the, I have a 2020 top fuel, nice, absolute favorite bike. I love it. You know, I think, man, you know it's hard to talk I got a, I got a Super Cal, a Super Calibur, you know, a couple of years because I wanted a little bit faster bike and it is wicked fast you know, like a no, is that the 100 mil? It's a it's 100 front but like it's like 60 mil in the rear.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's not much there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not much, but it's, it's enough. But you know, for longer rides you just. You're just like ah you know, like you just kind of you're tired of sitting on it after a while, but like the top fuel, you can just ride it for for hours. I just, I just love it. You know favorite road bike? I have a. I have an E-Mond SLR, love it. I mean it's as good as it's as good as anything out there. Yeah, that's probably my favorite.
Speaker 1:Both the coolest thing you got to see at Trek.
Speaker 2:The coolest thing, the coolest thing I got to see at Trek. I would say, well, just kind of watching bikes come, just watching bikes happen. You know the I just, I just think of the current generation Madone. You know what's out there, just seeing how that started with the previous, the previous version of the Madone, and everybody, you know everybody in the road team or in the in the product group was, was invited to come in and write on post-it notes Like what do you like about this bike and what don't you like about this bike? And everybody wrote, well, I like this, and you know this looks dumb you know and stick it here, and this could be improved.
Speaker 2:I don't like this seat clamp. You know, interesting and everybody you know, just soon enough, the bike was just covered in post-it notes. If it was favorable, it was a yellow post-it note. If it was, if it was a criticism, it was a red post-it note. And so they just kind of lined them all up and took it all and took it all in and applied that. You know, like, like, really listened to the criticism.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 2:And and then what? What came out is the. Is the current one like it or not? With the, you know, with the Isleflow, it's divisive but it works. You know, and what's cool is seeing that is seeing the, the, the claims, you know, people, people, all of this is you don't have the numbers in the back. I don't know man. They all went to the wind tunnel and got got validated. It was just. It was just kind of cool seeing that, what was?
Speaker 1:who was the either the most famous or the coolest person for you to see. Come through, like it could be athlete or celebrity. Come through Trek while you were there. The I would say the most because clearly you guys got to see all the racers when they came up for Cross. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:There were a few. There were a few. Tony Canaan, the IndyCar driver, he would. He would come in because he had a. I don't know he has a, he has a connection and he gets his. You know, he gets his bikes and he gets comes and picks them up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a lot of those guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really cool.
Speaker 1:Right bikes yeah.
Speaker 2:But the weirdest kind of I mean the coolest and what seemed to me the most random kind of celebrity guy who showed up was Luke Bryan, hmm, you know, because I guess he's he's a rider and he came and picked up his I think he had a stash or stash or something. You know something. He was, you know he'd go take hunting because he was playing. He was playing a playing a show nearby and so he just came and hung out for the day and that's cool and he kind of hung out with him. I was like this is really weird, you know. I was like, hmm, you know that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Bo Jackson would come in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he has a big ride. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:He's a super cool dude. And, of course, Gary Fisher man, that guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I bet you just like love Gary Fisher.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just like like when he just walk into the building and it was just like sparkles and butterflies and balloons. You know it's like wow, you know he just has the, he just has this presence about him. It's just like it was just really cool. That's pretty good Favorite place you've ever ridden Favorite place I've ever ridden, that would say Durango has always been at the top of my list, but I would say recently I swear Marquette, michigan.
Speaker 1:Okay, why is that?
Speaker 2:You would not think it. It's on the upper peninsula of Michigan, oh it's gonna be beautiful.
Speaker 2:Right on the shore of Lake Superior and it has just some of the best, the best single track I've ridden. You know, I know that there's, I know that there are better places in the world, but for me, for whatever reason, it's my favorite because it just has the right amount of climbing, has the right amount of technical, the right amount of flow. You know it has the perfect mix of everything. And then you know, like these huge gorges with these, you know these rivers running through them and you know you come out and then you can. You know you see Lake Superior there and you're just like.
Speaker 2:you know it's just pretty yeah pretty powerful to just see that the lake and like you know, like you know kind of the history behind it and I don't know it's just, it's just, it's just a really awesome place. Yeah, I would say as far as in the past 10 years, that is honestly my favorite place. You know, like I haven't gotten I haven't gotten to Bentonville to give it a solid go yet. But dude, marquette, marquette's like freaking awesome Cool.
Speaker 1:What's a what's a dream place to ride. If you could ride anywhere in the world. Anywhere doesn't even have to be a mountain or a road doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:What would it be? I would say you know I watch the, you know I watch the World Cups every year and I'm like the, the Albstot. Oh yeah, yeah, I. You know, when I see that course, I'm like God, I would just love to ride that. I just want to. I just want to be there. I want to see that. I want to see those views in person.
Speaker 1:I would like to see one of those courses in person, see how brutal they are. Drumming went up and worked. I think it was with Vittoria the snowshoe race this year and we were texting back and forth. I was like what's it like? And he's like it's so hard, he's like the XC course, he's like it is brutal.
Speaker 2:Those XC courses, that that that they're doing in the World Cup now are.
Speaker 1:Well, and the one in Benville that they have, when they had the UCI race there it I've gone and watched it that little course that they built. There is so much climbing. And then he said he's like I've always wanted to try the downhill just once, just to see what it's like. He's like. He's like when I was there. There is no chance, he's like, there is no way. I don't even understand how it's possible. And for somebody at that level to say that I'm like I've got to see this, I've got to see it at some point in my life because it's, I just can't understand it, and I know TV doesn't do it any justice.
Speaker 2:It doesn't do it any justice yeah.
Speaker 1:And they just crush it Just.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they just. And you know, in the, in the, you know the XC races, there's this those drops yeah. And I'm like they're just like these skinny people and you're just like holy shit, look at them, look at that what they're doing, you know like.
Speaker 1:Wild drops on like a hundred mil travel bike.
Speaker 2:I'm just letting it rip. Yeah, I'll like.
Speaker 1:No, no, thank you. Usually end with the. I usually end with advice for a new rider, so we're going to do that one, but I want to end with a different one. So advice for anyone that's new to cycling. We talked about people coming into the sport in the past handful of years, so what would be a number one piece of, let's say, for a mountain biker, because that's your background, yeah Well, it'd be your number one piece of advice for a new mountain biker.
Speaker 2:Oh well, don't take it. Don't take it that seriously. Great but also, you know, like try to try to ride with people who are faster or better than you and just watch, and just watch their lines. Because, like that is. That is the best way that I, that I improved is just riding with people who are better than me.
Speaker 1:For sure.
Speaker 2:Because you. It's not so much that they're going to give you instructions, it's just like you just see what they do Like oh well oh, you just moved his hip a little bit. You know, we're like, because it's all about body, english and feel really, and it's like when you, when you see, when you see it happening right in front of you, you're like and you kind of copy that, you know, then you really you really get a good feel of it, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you definitely see that how they move so much different than how you move. Yeah it's weird and they don't. And then you say something to them and I don't know what you're talking about?
Speaker 1:You don't even think about it how they set a corner up how they move on the bike, how they lay the bike and move their body a different direction or align choice and you're like I never thought about that and I know, you know like I see these instructional, like instructional videos on YouTube or whatever you know, watch them every now and they'll say, hey, maybe, maybe I've got something I can learn, because I'm not the best rider in the world and then, like they'll explain something I'm like oh, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, cool, yeah, like, because you know like I see it happening and you know it's stuff that I'm doing but like. I don't think about it, and then when I think about it then I can really really put it into use. So I'm just trying to think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 2:Good example of the pointing your knee at the apex of the turn. You know, that's just like a simple thing that I don't think about.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But when I thought, when I did think about it turning you know, turning your hips. It makes it it's like oh well, that makes it that much smoother.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Interesting when you're when you're conscious of it yes, I do the same thing with head looking around corners. Yeah, because you're kind of doing it. But when I really like exaggerate, I'm like oh, that was so much easier.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I kind of pay attention to that little subtle, just little subtle things that really make a difference.
Speaker 1:All right, here's what we're going to end with, unless you have something else, what's something that you think that people think is so cool or so great, or a product or event or whatever it is that you think is really overrated? So here's your time to rant about people who think something's way too cool and you think that's so stupid. Well or so not necessary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh man, I could really get myself in a spot.
Speaker 1:That's what this whole question's about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's cool, okay, so well, gravel has its place.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:You know. But you know, I think you know there's a lot of, there's a lot of, a lot of a lot of hype going on around gravel bikes and they're super versatile. But you know, like really for like kind of the chunky gravel of Kansas, you know like Emporia area kind of accepted, and I know there are places with super gnarly gravel Like you don't really necessarily have to have a gravel bike to ride on unpaved surfaces. Let's say that an unpaved surface, because you know, like I don't want to, I don't want to get to be like the old man, like shouting at the sky. But you know we used to go and ride on those roads north of Edmond.
Speaker 2:you know, oh yeah, it was just packed dirt, packed dirt, those on 23C slicks pumped up to 120 psi because we didn't know any better, but you know, like also we would watch. Oh, this is again we would watch, like Perry Rebae. It's like those guys are riding that crazy shit on maybe 26s.
Speaker 2:Maybe Maybe and they're just, they're just crushing, you know, they're like hauling it, and so it was just like, and it's like when I see gravel I speed up because that smooths it out, and you know, I know there are consequences, I've experienced them. But yeah, I think. I think sometimes in some markets gravel bikes are overrated, like and I would totally agree In southern Wisconsin we have.
Speaker 2:All of the roads are paved, all of them Interesting. Interesting trivia about southern Wisconsin is that all of the roads are paved because it has something to do with the dairy industry and getting getting milk from the dairy farms out in the sticks to Milwaukee to be, you know, for distribution.
Speaker 1:Makes sense.
Speaker 2:And so to find a gravel road in southeastern, southern Wisconsin is super tough, and so we have this rail trail, which is this crushed, crushed limestone gravel trail and dudes are buying gravel bikes to go ride that. I'm like I made that mistake one time on a rail to trail route.
Speaker 1:We put on big beefy tires that we didn't know. We went to the Katie trail in Missouri, me and another buddy bike packed it. We're like man, I got, put our gravel tires on all stuff and I got there. I'm like we could have rid this on our road bike, like it wouldn't so much better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I guess. I guess the thing is like every bike is a gravel bike if you ride it on gravel.
Speaker 1:That's true story, I like it.
Speaker 2:It doesn't really matter. You just, you know, you just adapt, adapt to it and enjoy yourself, and don't worry about equipment. I like it because it's yeah, it's. In the end, it's all about the experience that you have on the bike, with the people you're with or the people you're not with. It's, it's just you, just in your head, then that's the way it should be, yeah, just don't don't obsess about equipment.
Speaker 1:Just go ride your bike. Go play bikes yeah exactly and hang out with your buddies. Yeah, totally, forrest. Thank you so much for coming in. I'm glad we caught you when you were in town, because you head out in like two days, so thank you so much. Enjoy your concert while you're here, Absolutely. And thanks for being a fan and a supporter. And yeah, is there anything you want to sign off with or?
Speaker 2:Nope, just cool.
Speaker 1:Well, I appreciate it. Thanks for taking the time.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.