What are the best ways to celebrate Halloween in the office? What kind of costumes can you wear to work? Can you comment on your co-workers' costumes? It's a spooky episode of The People Purpose Podcast, as Chas and Julie discuss the Dos and Don'ts of Halloween at the workplace. Plus, find out how much money people spend on Halloween around the U.S.
What are the best ways to celebrate Halloween in the office? What kind of costumes can you wear to work? Can you comment on your co-workers' costumes? It's a spooky episode of The People Purpose Podcast, as Chas and Julie discuss the Dos and Don'ts of Halloween at the workplace. Plus, find out how much money people spend on Halloween around the U.S.
Hello, and welcome to the people purpose podcast the show that explores all the ins and outs of the challenges and opportunities, HR people, managers and all people face at work every day. My name is Julie Develin, and I'm here with my laughing co host.
Chas Fields:Chas Fields. Hi, Jules.
Julie Develin:Hi, Chas, how you doing? Do
Chas Fields:you have a shirt? You can't spell hero without HR? You do?
Julie Develin:I do. Yeah.
Chas Fields:Yeah, that's right. We joked about this. So shout out to our friend Freda, who hooked us up with some new UKG swag, but I'm good. Julie, how are you doing? Happy Monday.
Julie Develin:I guess Yeah. Yeah, we should. We should probably Yeah, we should probably set this scene. Yeah, I'm in Pacific time, right now. in beautiful San Diego. So for me, it's super early. In, you know how well I do with that. And I've been here for many days. So I've got kind of gotten used to the time so
Chas Fields:you're adjusted. Okay, I'm just gonna give you a hard time because it's like, it's not it's 1030 Your time on the east coast. So,
Julie Develin:no, I'm pretty sure I'm adjusted. Now. For the first couple of days. It was great. Because I was up at like five and I was really productive.
Chas Fields:Only one in the gym. You know, it's it's super nice. Yeah, it
Julie Develin:was nice. But now I'm like, whoo. Okay. This really is like a 7am discussion. But hey, that's okay. That's okay.
Chas Fields:That's why we're here. That's why we're here. Hey, Julie. Oh, tell me something good. But before we do that, there has to be there has to be a framework around that has to be has to be a theme. Okay? Yeah. So this
Julie Develin:parameters around what's good for me.
Chas Fields:Okay, here we go. Somebody's still fine. You're doing okay, firing on the gas 30 on the East Coast, right or Westeros? Halloween. Okay. So obviously, this episode is the do's and don'ts of Halloween in the office, right? Or we're going to have a general discussion. We're not going to tell you exactly what you shouldn't do. But I want to know, either a great Halloween story or a great office Halloween. Sorry, I don't know, but make something up for me.
Julie Develin:I've got no I've got something that is going to something that has shaped my view of Halloween ever since it happened. And you're gonna I think you're gonna laugh at this. And this is something that I I often think about and I shouldn't think about it because this happened when I was in like, I don't know fifth or sixth grade. Right? So okay, so here's my here's what I think about when I think a Halloween and this is because I had a little bit of a traumatic experience on Halloween.
Chas Fields:Oh never good. Whenever something good is going to be traumatic got it. Okay, no, Halloween appropriate
Julie Develin:my something get it my something good is funny so just just just bear with me actually my something good is that I'm in San Diego but here's my Halloween story. Okay, wait, wait no, no, no, what's your something good?
Chas Fields:My my something good is the fact that we got a bunch of new swag that we can now wear versus me wearing the same shirts over and over again at events so I'm really excited about that. It's a little things for me, Jules. I don't do a lot of shopping a lot of clothes shopping. I get like close it at Christmas. We celebrate Christmas. And that's really about it. Like I don't I don't That's it. Yes, go ahead.
Julie Develin:All right. All right. That'll be up out of the way there's guys now now the traumatic experiences so so fourth or fifth grade don't ask me what grade I was in, but I was a ghost. And this is this this was one of those years where I just didn't want to put any effort into the costume or whatever. You know, my mom used to make the some costumes and I used to go all out whatever. But I was a ghost and you know how when you're a ghost, obviously, it's just a sheet with Well, I guess a lazy ghost. This is a sheet with two idols cut up cut out. Well, my holes kept, like shifting and it was like it was hard to see. Right? Remember, okay, it's dark, right? Obviously, if we're trick or treating, I'm with a group of people. All of a sudden, so I'm walking and I'm walking and I'm walking up to one of the houses to knock and say trick or treat. And I walk my I walk into a stick. No hanging from a tree. I know you like it. Hurt like what? No, no, no, no. widened sort of turns out to be funny. And I was like, I was like kinda like a fish like flailing like what the heck is going on. But like, as I'm, as I'm, it's dark and like, I'm confused as to what's going on. But I know I have a stick in my eye, which is weird. And it just, I was like, Oh, this hurts or whatever, nobody knew about it. And now I'm telling the entire world. And so I wound up, you know, literally pulling the stick at that I walked into out of my house hanging from a tree. That was the out of my eye. And that's what I think about when I think about Halloween. Okay, that is what I think about. So that was like, I guess a traumatic experience, which now you can look back and say it's funny, and my eyesight is fine. But my best advice to those of you who are going to be a ghost, make sure that the eye holes are big enough. And that you can see, you might walk in no stick.
Chas Fields:So I have a I have a how a similar Halloween story that does not directly relate to me and Halloween. So we didn't celebrate Halloween growing up. That has since changed. We have a dear friend of ours that you know, grew up and her mother used to make all of her Halloween costumes, right? So we're getting to know these friends. They're now very dear friends. But this was early on when we first got to know them. And they were sharing their story with us. And this gal was talking about how she grew up in her mom had passed. But one of her favorite memories was her mom always making her Halloween costumes. Like that's what they did together and they shared it. And I send my remember, this is classic chairs, foot and mouth right here. Okay. So after the story goes on, and then you know, they they're like, you know, do you have any questions you know about the story? And I was like, Does your mom still make your Halloween costumes today? Duly, everyone in the room? That was he looked at me like, did he just ask that? He just asked, What do we say? How do we break the silence? Enjoy? I felt so awful afterwards. You know, since then we've resolved like we've resolved it shortly thereafter. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. I really wasn't trying to be funny. But right afterwards, we both laughed about it and classic chats Foot and Mouth. But bottom line is, you know, listen, a little close, a little closer, maybe with a more intentionality. Because otherwise, yeah. More on yourself in front of you and all your friends and potentially new friends. Anyway,
Julie Develin:yeah. So yeah, so stick it stick in the I put in the mouth.
Chas Fields:Episode over.
Julie Develin:Right. Yeah. No, I think Halloween, there's a lot to unpack here. And we should start with the business that that we always talk about. I found this and I thought it was really interesting for this kind of episode. So the national retail Federation's annual Halloween consumer survey. It's conducted by a firm called prosper insights, and analytics. And in 2023, they found that Halloween spending, it was it's expected to reach about $12.2 billion, which exceeds the previous year's record of 10. Point 6 billion. So 2022 Halloween spending was over 10 billion and then 2023 We're looking at over 12 billion. That's crazy. But here's why it doesn't surprise me. Okay, one inflation.
Chas Fields:Okay, shrink inflation, right. A lot of food companies are getting hit with shrink Felician. You know, inflation you don't know about that we'll talk about anyways, go ahead.
Julie Develin:Oh, meaning the size of the candy is getting smaller.
Chas Fields:Everything's getting smaller. But you paid the same price or? Okay. Okay. So like, if you remember fun size candy bars, were actually half of the original bars. Yeah. Yeah. So that is not the case now.
Julie Develin:Yeah. Yeah, you're right. You're way smaller. So I mean, to me, it doesn't mean to me that makes a lot a lot of a lot of sense, right? Because we have the cost of candy, the cost of decor, the cost of costumes, the venues that people have for parties. There's a lot of families that have more than one child who spend a ton of money on these things. So what do you think? Yeah, well,
Chas Fields:I also think about the haunted houses. I went to haunted houses in college, right? Did those do anything for you, by the way, like, did you ever go?
Julie Develin:I actually volunteered at some. Yeah. What was that like? Was it I don't know? I didn't like scaring.
Chas Fields:People, okay, well, yeah, they didn't do much for me. But it was always fun with friends who like freak out and stuff like that. But, you know, you think about haunted houses like there's some massive ones I growing up in Indiana, there was a couple of massive ones that they, you know, ran out these old warehouses and do like floor by floor. And you could walk for 30 minutes, or you can pay for the premium package and walk for an hour. And then you could be a VIP and have like your own host walk you through it. And there's a happy hour at the end, you know what I mean? So yeah, they monetize that I find it interesting. There's 12 point 2 billion. But if that's a global number, it's a little bit easier for me to swallow. Because I will tell you, here in the fields household in our neighborhood, which we live in a I don't know what you would call it, like a condensed, like houses are relatively close to each other. And people bust their kids in and they you know, our neighborhoods very accessible. And I will tell you, us just in our candy spend alone, because Lindsay and I love giving out candy. I mean, we're we're in the three figure range of candy to distribute to kids. Yeah. And we love it.
Julie Develin:Yeah, that's how my neighborhood is to my my dad, for whatever reason, when my dad, he's no longer lives in the house. We grew up in my my brother lives in that now. That's a whole other story. He when He lived there, he would insist on giving out full size candy bars.
Chas Fields:So we're in a full size candy bar neighborhood.
Julie Develin:So he would spend, he would spend easily 345 $100 like candy. So anyway, here's the thing, like, that's not why we're here, right? We're here. We're here to talk about Halloween. But we're here to talk about Halloween in the workplace. And we want to talk about, you know, some considerations that I think that HR and really all business leaders need to need to understand and think about, because Halloween in the workplace Halloween in general. You know, as you mentioned, you didn't celebrate growing up, I think it's important for us to recognize that not everybody does celebrate Halloween. That's right. That's right. Um, and then talk about the considerations surrounding that. So let's, let's start. Let's start here, jazz, I think that there needs to be some clear guidelines surrounding this day. Would you agree with that?
Chas Fields:I would and what I find funny about this, Julie, we were talking about this before we started, it kind of blows my mind that we have to have this conversation. Right? Whether it's progressive or lack of progression, if you will. The fact that we have to have this conversation is hilarious. I just Googled, by the way, some of the places that like countries that don't celebrate Halloween, and there's actually several. Yeah, so So you know, not just about me here in the States, but their actual if you're a multinational company that is listening, there are several places that don't do that, you know, just a little cultural aspect, their cultural flavor, if you will. But I agree with you, Julie, we need to have a clear guided discussion around this, at least for things to think about. So go ahead. Right.
Julie Develin:And I think a lot of times HR we get, we get dinged for being the Fun Police. And that's not that's not what this is about. This is about this is about understanding where we are in today's society, versus maybe where we've been, and, you know, by just by doing things like reminding employees that they need to not wear costumes that might be offensive, or provocative, or even in violation of the company's dress code. Right. It's, you know, it's more about encouraging employees to use their best judgment. And we all have this is actually a great teaching moment for folks about cultural and religious and personal preferences when people are choosing costumes. But you know, it's also about cultural sensitivity as well. So it's a great opportunity to talk about cultural awareness and why it's important to keep that in mind, not only on Halloween, but also on on other days as well.
Chas Fields:Yeah, I don't think I don't think it's it's just hrs job. Right. I think it's everyone in the organization. You know, and you mentioned, like, HR being the Fun Police. Right. And I think there's some truth to that in the in the days of old, if you will, but I think that that's slowly starting to shift because people, I would hope are recognizing, hey, I probably shouldn't have this costume on because it's it's too gory, or it's too, whatever, you know, in those instances, I think if it's one if it's one of those that you are really excited about. I have a dear friend of mine that I grew up with that that he makes his own costumes every year. Right. And he gets really, really into it, the detail and the intricacies and all of those things. And there is not one of those that you could ever wear into the office. So much so that if you go back to like, did you watch that Halloween episodes of the office? Yes, yes. Okay, so, so classic, there's, I think there's two or three classic examples of what not to do in certain instances. And then there are some where you're like Jim and the office where he literally puts three black construction, pieces of paper that are circular, and he calls himself a three hole punch, you know what I mean? 00 ever, but so good. So you're ideally, the bottom line is what I think what, what you're trying to say is there's a, we have to be sensitive to the culture, but it also provides an opportunity to provide cultural awareness, right, and use it as a teaching moment. And honestly, break down some of the barriers of, hey, you know, what, here's why have a good conversation around, here's why we don't celebrate, or here's why we're not going to do this, because, and if anything, what you're doing is you're educating your employees in a different way. And then even after Halloween, you recognize, okay, you know, we can have a conversation around other things, too. Does that make sense?
Julie Develin:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, I think it's important to recognize to and to mention, hey, by the way, policies, don't go away on Halloween policies and all of that. So that, but that may bring in a larger conversation as to whether or not companies should allow folks to come in costumes to begin with. I mean, there's a, there's a school of thought that says, if we just say, Listen, we appreciate you wanting to celebrate Halloween, we're supportive of you celebrating Halloween outside of work. But hey, during the time that you're at work for these eight hours, let's just keep it a regular workday. Or maybe maybe they have some kind of program where everybody, each office, or each cubicle or whatever, right has different kinds of candy. And folks can go and do an office trick or treat thing, but but we have to make sure that we're thinking in an inclusive way. So for example, creating, creating an environment where employees either feel comfortable participating, or recognize that it's okay, that they don't have to participate based upon their personal beliefs based upon their preferences. Maybe maybe even having some sort of alternative activity for employees who don't want to participate. Because the last thing we want to do is have people feel like they're not included, because they don't have a costume on because a lot of these places, it's Oh, wear your costume and get this or wear a costume and get that and I don't know that that's necessarily the
Chas Fields:way to go. See we're master have kind of new ideas in this space. So we've done several things in the past where it's just been a fall you all, you know, party where people can come in, it could be a it could be, you know, bring your favorite dish. Something as simple as a cakewalk. Listen, I am a massive fan of the cakewalk. Julie, what's a cake? Even? Okay, so there's numbers. All right, you get a number out there. And there's music. All right. So imagine a big circle on the floor that has numbers almost like a almost like a game board. Right? Okay. And there's numbers and you walk around to the music kind of like musical chairs, when the music stops, that's the number you get. Alright. And then someone draws the random number out of a bowl or spins the board, whatever it is to get that and then you walk over to the price table. And you know what the price table has Julie? A lot of sweets. Okay, cake, whatever it is. Julie, I am telling you what it you know, if you like if you like thinking you like to win the lottery, I'm telling you when when someone brings your favorite cake, or a pumpkin spice loaf or whatever, and you win. Oh my goodness. So for people like for people like me, not only do you feel like you when you know, it's random, but you also get to take home something that you were absolutely gonna crush after dinner. Sign me up. Right. So, if there's a cakewalk, I can assure you, I'm involved.
Julie Develin:Alright, so there's an idea for folks a cakewalk instead of Duck, duck goose for cakes, or for sweets, something like that. Yeah.
Chas Fields:Sorry, we digress. But the other piece of this too is I think we can we can hit this briefly is if you have someone like my buddy who celebrates Halloween to the nth degree, there's a time off and productivity element to this too, right? You know, we have people who desire to be with their families, a lot of schools take off earlier in that week, right? Whether give the kids an extra day or two the before after holiday, and sometimes you are forced to take time off. Right? So being aware of that as an organization. You know, the cool part about hosting something internally if you're doing a trick or treat or whatever. It is going to take away from the tasks and activities that you're doing productivity wise. But that also is a major contributor to the positivity of your organizational culture, and thus can increase productivity in the next several days after you come out of your sugar coma.
Julie Develin:Yeah, I agree with that. I also think that when we talk about Halloween itself, it's traditionally celebrated on the 31st of October, there are so many neighborhoods that do not have Halloween trick or treating on the actual day of Halloween. So recognizing that some of your employees may need to take a half a day or leave a little bit early in order to take their kids trick or treating on a day that might not traditionally seem like a trick or treating Day to you. That's that's important. And I think, again, the you know, this goes to goes to communications. You know, I also think there are some things that maybe in HR, we don't think about that that could be another potential like issue. One of those is Halloween decor, and making sure that that decor is safe from an OSHA perspective.
Chas Fields:I've loved that you put this one down here coming in from a construction industry background, I'm like, yeah, like if OSHA were to walk in and see that you had a triple load bearing and whatever, and you've only got two ladders set up and people walk under it, and they it falls, not only are you liable, but then OSHA gets involved. You know what I mean? We just, we just don't want that. But when I saw that, I was like, You are so spot on with this, because it happens.
Julie Develin:And this, this, this transcends Halloween, I mean, you could talk any holiday really, I mean, just think thinking about it, thinking about the workplace and the decor and ensuring that in the court the decorations that they don't obstruct or create safety hazards. And, you know, the other thing, too, is religious and politically themed decorations that might be divisive. We have to make sure that we're not, we're not saying that it's okay for folks to do that. Right. And again, that goes down to communication.
Chas Fields:And I would say one of the last things, we didn't have this alcohol, right alcohol in the office. And look, we were not the police on this, we we don't know. But it does need to be compliant with what the local, you know, law is first off, right. But also what your organizational policy is in, is it, you know, are you going to allow them to consume during business hours that actually, Julie, there's a lot of companies out there that do allow employees to consume alcohol during business hours. There are a lot of companies that don't, right. So if you choose to do this on this specific way, think about hey, you know, do you have a car service or a bus to take people home things that, that if you are going to provide something that could potentially alter the state of mind, then have a backup plan, right? To make sure that as But Julie, what the final point and I you mentioned communication. Do you want to talk about that experience in the past? Yeah. Oh, well,
Julie Develin:I don't know that. I mean, I think back to my time working in offices and my organization's we never really did anything big, I guess for Halloween. Regardless, you know, of the fact that there were some folks who decided to dress up on their own, which, for us was fine. And, you know, I think that the culture of the organization was such that people understood what was okay, and what wasn't from a cultural sensitivity perspective, from an inclusivity perspective, and that kind of thing. I remember that were several years where I would, I would have some candy. I know, there were a couple of years, we did a potluck, that kind of thing. But, but yeah, but really what this boils down to, and I've said this a few times during this discussion is communication. And the fact that companies have to communicate clearly the expectations and the guidelines for Halloween celebrations in advance, because the last thing we want is for employees to band together and say we're gonna do XY and Z. And then they do XY and Z, the company decides that they don't like it. And then you know, folks get in trouble or there's, you know, there it's not a good motivator for people. Right? And for so many people, Halloween is this joyous time, it's this, it's a fun thing. For others, it's just not. For others, it's just another day. So encouraging open communication, and so employees really feel comfortable discussing concerns or, you know, seeking clarification as to what is what's okay to do what's not okay to do, I think is really, really important.
Chas Fields:This is where I think when you're planning a program around a specific holiday, not just how Are we in but if you are going to take company money and invest into whatever that date is, right, it's a good opportunity to ask for feedback and evaluation. You know. So I think about, again, going back to the office in the episode of the party planning committee, you know, the party planning committee internally, which, which I love and that whole dynamic, but the warranted feedback or unwarranted feedback is going to come out, you know, so if you are going to be a company that embraces whatever holiday and try and create a culture around the holiday themed party or whatever, doesn't hurt to ask, after the fact to say, hey, wasn't that fun? And then, like, the vast majority of employees are like, No, that was awful. I never want to do that. Again. Jazz's Cakewalk idea was miserable. I did not want to do that.
Julie Develin:Right, yeah, doing some kind of post event survey or post event discussion, I think there's
Chas Fields:a post mortem, very apropos for Halloween. Oh, there
Julie Develin:you go. I'm cheering as funny. thinking, thinking about thinking about the fact to have allowing take folks to take liberal leave on the day, if they don't want to participate, or if they don't feel comfortable participating. Again, these are things that you as an HR professional, or you as a manager, or whatever your role is, if you are managing people dealing with things like this, it's about being open prior to the event and being proactive instead of being reactive. And that proactive mindset is going to lessen any problems that may come up in the, in the future. And, and it's going to take stress off of the employee, it's going to take stress off of you. And again, these are things that I'm not sure we think about right? Top of mind, because we're trying to deal with everything else that you know, that goes on in the workplace.
Chas Fields:What happens with Halloween, right, like that's the work is still gonna happen.
Julie Develin:I can can confirm I've got meetings on that day. Limit. Let me ask you a quick question. Chas. Are you going to are you going to dress up this year?
Chas Fields:Are you know, we're at the age that yes, I will. Okay, I have dressed up in the past I did not last year. So my my vibe on Halloween and I do have a question for you after this my vibe on Halloween. I genuinely enjoy sitting our front yard, putting on a bonfire. You know, we put a lot of table out with the bowl and and we just refill the candy. Now obviously we take you know our son early, because he goes to bed early. But then my wife and I we always have the big group of people that come over and we just let the kids enjoy. So that that's that's where I find it. Are you going to dress up for Halloween?
Julie Develin:No, no, I'm not. No, not healthy person. No, I don't think I'm going to be home, either. Oh, yeah, I guess.
Chas Fields:I Yeah. So I saw this funny thing. And I'm gonna ask you this question before we wrap up. But before I do that meme, I saw a meme yesterday where a guy was like, so the kids don't hate my house and egg my house, they put out an empty bowl with a note that says please take one. So like the kids show up, and there's virtually no candy, you know, like, Okay, so that's a budget friendly way, I guess.
Julie Develin:I mean, we didn't even get into the socio economic consideration. Oh, goodness. Yeah. Yeah, that's a whole other conversation.
Chas Fields:So let me ask you this. Do you think it's okay for employees to ask or comment on someone else's costume? Like to comment on it? Oh, I really liked your costume. Oh, you think that's okay? Yeah. I mean, it's how is that different? How is that different than me coming up saying, Oh, I don't like your outfit, or I like your outfit. Would that be weird?
Julie Develin:Yeah, it would totally be weird.
Chas Fields:But consider it though, right? I don't know. Okay, that's what what does? What does? What does the what does the holiday? Why does that take away from the policy? You know,
Julie Develin:you're right, you're right. But here, I'll throw this at you too. There are a lot of companies that do costume contests.
Chas Fields:Right? So So you have to vote. So you do it anonymously or discreetly? Look where you go down this rabbit hole. We don't need you because
Julie Develin:I don't know. Like, oh, man, this is a great question. But it's one of those things where HR professionals roll their eyes and we're
Chas Fields:really man sucking the fun out of how
Julie Develin:am I going to have to mediate a conversation between John and Jane because Jane didn't like John's costume and John thought James Duncan trash behind James talking trash and that oh, by the way that opened up a can of worms that last week. Meet Jane didn't quite pull her weight. Oh my gosh, it's
Chas Fields:it's the what if game, we don't play the what if game. So, hey, Julie, what did you find your purpose? And
Julie Develin:I want you to go first What did you find your purpose in?
Chas Fields:You know what I, this is I'm gonna repeat myself here but you know you plan this episode. So thank you for doing that. But I loved that you put the OSHA thing in there, because I remember working with OSHA back in the day on shoring, not Halloween specific but on shoring and on what it takes to be safe on a job site. And I think there's there's a lot of truth with that, because you could walk into a lot of companies now, where they have, you know, paper mache hanging from lights, and it's like, that, probably shouldn't do that. You know what I mean? So just having the open dialogue, even though I think it's hilarious that we have to have this conversation. The fact that we get to have this conversation, I think is really important, too. So yeah, what do you find your purpose? Yeah,
Julie Develin:yeah, I mean, pretty much just everything surrounding Halloween, other holidays, too. We can have what made probably we'll have these conversations on the on the show. But just recognizing that not everybody celebrates these things the same way, nor is everybody as enthusiastic about these types of things. What
Chas Fields:and shouldn't be judged for it. Great. Like, you know, we always talk about their culture participators and people who just take from the company, and they'll participate at all right? In instances like this, I think there needs to be there needs to be some grace extended, right? Like, I would not look at you and be like, hello, Julie. Like, what a loser you didn't dress up for Halloween, you know? Yeah, no, but you see my point though, right? Like we can't we can't say oh, you let me judge you because you decided not to participate today and thus you are taking away from the company culture like that's
Julie Develin:your your response. You're a fun vampire.
Chas Fields:very apropos. Okay, so with that a few reminders before we leave, don't forget to like and subscribe and use the hashtag people purpose pod on social media sites like Twitter and LinkedIn. Also, be sure to check out the latest blogs and research from the workforce Institute by visiting the workforce Institute UK g by visiting workforce institute.org couple of key things that are coming up Julie, we will be well you will be at HR tech. So we will be bringing the HR tech episode after this one. And then we will have our international episode. That's coming up our first of many, I was told last week to dust off the passport as you work to so that will be good. And then after that, Julie we have our aspire, which is UK GS customer conference and you and I are doing the closing spotlight session where we will be giving a way A 2024 ticket for free to come to the Aspire conference. More details on that so awesome. Yeah, pretty exciting. So thank you all for listening so much. Cheers, y'all. Bye bye.