Will you join us at Paris Packaging Week?
Alain Dhaese - Secretary General at European Aerosol Federation
Jean Blottierre - Secretary General at France Aerosol Federation
Why is aerosol packaging so sustainable?
What is the future of aerosol packaging?
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Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guests are from Europe.And very excited to introduce Mr.Alain Dhaese , the Secretary General of the European Aerosol Federation.And Mr.Jean Blattierre secretary General of France aerosol Foundation.How are you?Alain Dhaese:
Very good.GoodCory Connors:
morning.My apologies , for not pronouncing your names correctly, , but uh, that's perfectly okay.I'm doing my best.Okay.Well, can you please tell us about your backgrounds?I'm very excited to get to meet you over in Paris Packaging Week in January, but we'll get to that soon.Let's talk about you first.Alain Dhaese:
you're a first.Alain Dhaese: So I'm, I'm the European Aerosol Federation.I'm in function for more than 20 years.Wow.So, quite a background.I work in the past for the industry in AOL fillers based in Belgium.And previously to that different job in several companies, different function from research to technical sales.So broad stuff of of, of background and experiences there.Thank you, sir.And.Jean Blottierre:
Say, although my name doesn't say it, I'm Franco British.I leave near Paris.I'm very low key, but I've been living here only recently.I spent more than 30 years in the uk.I've been in charge of sales within the aero industry, selling aluminum cans.I've been on the board of the British Sales Association, then on the European Federation representing Britain.And then, More recently, I took the job of general Secretary of the French Association when I decided to come and leave with a family here in Paris.Cory Connors:
excellent.And aerosol and aluminum and packaging has absolutely taken a major part in the future of sustainable packaging.So I'm, I'm thrilled to speak with you both about how you're gonna keep up with demand and how this new packaging trend will continue to,to work well for our, our world.But let's talk about the A a D.2023 which is part of Paris Packaging Week.Can, can you guys tell me what is that about?What's the partnership of ADF and FE all about?And we'll startAlain Dhaese:
there.Yeah, I will probably take that one.Azure.So effectively we have developed a partnerships with Easy Fair for the ADF . In Paris.Why?Simply to take the best of two worlds.So we have the aerosol expertise we run our own event in the past and the focus for us was more on the Congress part.So to give value to our members insight to allow debates within the industry and Easyfair . Especially your specialty is to organize event.And, and so we combine the two world to make, , to start, to make the best event that we can have in Europe on a yearly basis.So is that really the goal?Cory Connors:
That makes a lot of sense to combine those meetings together when so many beauty brands are going towards aerosol packaging and aluminum packaging.So well done.That's a, a smart move and I'm really excited for Paris Packaging Week in January.I think it's January 25th next year January and 26th.So looking forward to that very much.Can you tell us about the ADF Innovation Awards?Jean Blottierre:
Well I probably can speak more cause cfa, the Franchise Association actually created adf a very long time ago with the organizers at the time.And traditionally the general Secretary of the French Association.Is the sharing the ADF award jury.So therefore I've been doing it myself for the past nearly five years now.And it's a very interesting concept.We are about 20 jury members and we are going through innovations every year not only purely on aerosol side, but on the dispensing side.So we see some other aero source,which is quite interesting.And, and, and we've got lots of discussions, mostly jury because obviously some, some entries are straightforward and pure innovation and very exciting.Some innovation are probably far more in advance.In time.So we probably are not ready for it as an industry or sometimes we are not willing to be ready for it because, you know, shaking the tree.But yeah, I think it does work very well.There are about 50 or60 entries every year.We've got a jury meeting on the 15th of December this year , for next year's award.And we are very exciting.Cory Connors:
What kinds of innovations are you seeing in in the world of aerosol packaging?Jean Blottierre:
We see different things.Korea, obviously we, we, we see lots of work being done on material.Itself.So we, we've seen among different,across the years you know, packaging weight being worked on, so your weight reduction on different type of component.That's one thing we've seen lots of work being done on on artwork itself.So that.Different finishes, more colors on the containers insensitive working with temperature, for example.And then we see obviously the dispensing side being innovative as well.So, you know, I more Ergon.Type products that can be used by a, a further wider population, especially in Europe.I don't know if it's the case in the US but in Europe we've got a population getting older and older.So you know, being able to grab and to, to manipulate the dispensing system is important.And then of course we have seen recently pure sustainable innovation, you know, how to have green aerosol into brackets, so incorporation of of recycled material change of materials as well.So that's, that's what we see.We tend to go through more circular economy around what we see at our level.Cory Connors:
Yeah.Will said lots of Lots of incredible innovations in print, digital print,and like you said, the tactile feel of some of the raise printing.That's really impressive.Higher PCR content very, very innovative and more sustainable options.Ellen, I was hoping to ask you about the event itself.Are there anything that we should know as, as people that are, are attending the event?, should we prepare for anything?Is there anything that you just, we just shouldn't miss?Alain Dhaese:
So I, I'm building the program for the movement for the conference, so I hope that that will be well attended.I have no doubt about it.And of course the the, the type of presentation will reflect the topic of the movement.And sustainability in generally is a key, say, key point for, for the industry, for the time being.We will not focus only on a aerosol , I have to say.There will be other way to spray also to show that other part of the industry are also the dispensing.But it is also innovating.Yes.So we don't want to, to restrict or, or we need to be open mind to look at all, all type of innovation.That's very important from that side.And of course all the aspect that John has already mentioned do go use of pca.But also reporting across the supply chain.All those subjects will come on the table.Also, collaboration, all to innovate together because more and more company try to interlink to understand better each other and to, to speed up the,the development and innovation.So all those subject will be, will be on the table.I think that will be really,A great movement to what?Yeah,Cory Connors:
that's a really excellent point that.It's not just aerosols.There's pumps and different kinds of things, manual dispensers and all kinds of different packaging which makes it so much more diverse for the, the world packaging.So well said.I wanted to ask a couple details about these containers.Are, are aerosol dispensers generally recyclable?Jean Blottierre:
Yes, they are.They are.And they've been for many years now.We've got different ways to recycle aerosols , in Europe.The systems are very different from one country to another,but in summary, yes, they are.The, the biggest issue we face is consumers putting it into the.Recycling bin.If the aerosol is thrown into the right bin, that the consumer, it'll be recycled.And the, the, the main content, which is metal today will be recovered.So most of the communication we have in Europe, And I've got here in France is around the collection, making sure that the consumer knows what to do with it.And, and that is probably the,basically the major message that we put across on a regular basis.And we work with schools, we work with . We've got, we set up, or we are setting up now an education tool for kids so they know where to throw their packaging in the right place.And we include a source in that.And we work also very closely with all national authorities dealing with waste collection.Cory Connors: Yeah.Well, well said.I'm excited to hear that you're,you're educating students and well, even grownups like us need,need some input sometimes, right., did you have something to, to add, sir?Alain Dhaese:
Yeah.Yes.The be beyond this the, the education progress and the fact that consumer effectively the first step.Is to put the, the post consumer solving the right be to be recycled.We need to recognize that all the country within AAU are not on the same page.Yes.And if they are country where we are really very high level of recycling rates orders like really beyond for different reasons, but generally it's a lack of structure also to properly recite the.The metal containers.So today, if you have will in certain country, there is not yet overbanked or a current to separate, to sort the AOL from and the metal packaging from the other.Materials, right?You, you cannot reach a high level of recycling.So this part is still important in many countries, less in Belgium and in France, for example, or, but we are certain country Greece, Bulgaria,Romania, we are still effort to do.Because there are quite a population there too.Yeah.So they are still packaging to, to be recycled there.,Cory Connors: it seems to me The, the onset of extended producer responsibility is going to encourage companies and manufacturers to,to work with the government and the population to continue to urge recycling as much as we can.Do you agree with.Yes, that's it.That's important.We need also to realize that in Europe, We are generally with a high level of recycling already, yes.There is maybe more effort to do, certainly for the plastic due to the high diversity of plastic and less for the metal.But, but the I would say the, the,the last percentage to increase to, to continue to progress generally is the most costly.Because all you need to further invest in infrastructure or cover a broader population, which is not specifically in cities.So the cost of collection generally increase, and for in general, of sorting and recycling also, So let's see how far we can go because we are losing in each step of the recycling, we are always lose some residue, some percentage.And so the concept of hundred percent recycling is technically not achievable.We need to be reasonable and not give the dream perspective to the people that will never happen,Cory Connors:
right.Yeah.And I think that's okay.I think you're right.It's okay to understand that it's not gonna be perfect, but we're going to do the best that we can.Mm-hmm., and we're going to continue to improve every step of the way.I've seen major advancements just in the last two years in recycling numbers and programs.We here in North America are looking to Europe for what works and maybe what doesn't.So we are often emulating you.And so we thank you for, for taking the lead and and really being progressive with recycling.Well done.Alain Dhaese:
I think for, for, for the story on recycling globally.We, we have we, we meet, we saw global colleagues once a year.We, we saw colleagues from the US of course, but also for Latin America and form Asia.Yeah.And, and, and recycling is, it is always on the agenda because we continue to.To, to help each other with, with the experience for, for, from the past and, and to, to be sure that we can drive a good future globally for theirCory Connors:
Well, that's great to hear.And John, sorry.Yeah.Jean Blottierre:
Yeah.Maybe just to complete the answer for my lines, in Europe, we're under pressure from regulators today.We we've got national lows, which are called the, we've got them in the uk.Probably in the uk, and you've got them in the US as well, which is, Recycle reincorporate, the material incorporation of pcr and then reduction of packaging.We, we are, we see lots of pressure on our colleagues from different type of industries and we see consumers surveys saying, why, why is that packaging, packaging and so on?The industry is a bit protected on this because Ally contains the product and,and, and we can use an AOL 80 or 90 times.Across a period of three years.Wow.And therefore, today the AOL is really perceived as the form of packaging,which is the most reduced as possible because you don't sell AOL within the no packaging in shops or in retail areas.And at that perception of being,performing, being cheap and easy to use is, is key for us.So if we put across the right message that on the top of that, if you put in the right bin, it's going to become something else in metal.Mm-hmm.and, and we are working also in plastic air also recycling today in different countries.We, we are winning the battleAlain Dhaese:
And it's exciting to hear all of these positive things.And I know there's been some, some recent challenges with supply.I know for a while we were, we were out of cans, , and I know this because I couldn't buy any and provide them to my customers, but it seems like that has kind of leveled out.Would you, would you all agree that supply has caught up a little bit?Alain Dhaese:
But I think the industry still face a problem, but globally,that's not specific to Europe.But it seemed that the situation improve.Yes.But the problem are not Disappearing so, so quickly . So, but, but yeah, the situation improve.Yeah.Jean Blottierre:
If I may, if I may jump on that, , it's useful for our national industries as well because I think the, the suppliers and the customers have realized that having local supply is very important.So if you keep key suppliers for different type of component next door to you, then you, you avoid any form of earth disruption.And it, it does help Europe because we are today the biggest producer in the world.But it does help also lot of countries within Europe to sustain that.Cory Connors:
I didn't know that.That's fascinating that you're the largest aerosol producer.Well done.Yeah.What is the main crux of that?Is it in paint cans , or what is the, what is the number one product do you think?Alain Dhaese:
How that the the cosmetic sector is number one with more than50% of the a industry in Europe.Wow.And in those category, the, the seem to me the really, the, the number one as precise product category that says there is a lot of potential also in.For food product, for example, where they really great business to do . So,you know, doing business is not always the the big piece of the cake.They are also places for,for the smallest player.Yes.If they are really focused or something particular.And I think that, think that exists also in the US that's exactly the same.And in, in other region..Cory Connors: Yeah, very true, very true.Often innovations like we talked about before, will come from a smaller brand because they can often take a risk that a larger brand isn't maybe comfortable doing.Interviewed Josh Brooks from Easy Fairs and he spoke about that.One of the winners of the awards at the last year's event was a very small company and she had a mono material lipstick packaging that was totally innovative and the larger brands are standing there saying, Hmm, this is very cool.So, yeah, you're right.Well, I'm very much looking forward to seeing you both in Paris in January.Anything else that you'd like to mention before we close?Hello.Jean Blottierre:
We welcome you.It's a very, very big show.It's a very busy show.You're, you're people is bubbling,actually bubbling around, and not only around the Trump bar, but you'll see it's for us it's like meeting the family every year because a industry is very small.Everybody knows everybody,even at worldwide level.So, so you'll be able to,you'll be welcome to meet the.Cory Connors:
thank you, sir.That's for, and we expect that we will get some, some, quite a few numbers of people from the US because, no, I think the Covid crisis is behind us, even if there was some cases, but the impact is no there.So I hope that people will join us and that's always a pleasure to, to, to meet them.Cory Connors:
It's it's an honor to be invited and I'm excited to go.When I interviewed Josh, he mentioned a couple of people had just signed up from the Apple Company a small electronics company.I'm sure you've heard of them.so from, from California.But he was thrilled to see somebody from a company that's not exactly in the brands or the types of packaging that will be there.They're coming to see innovation and maybe get inspir.Jean Blottierre:
Yeah.But you know, it's, it's, it's a very interesting point because intelligence link to packaging is, is probably the future.And and I remember when I was selling aluminum cans many years ago, we, we had the, the stupid idea of, to say, well, can't you have an a link to your mobile phone?And when the product drives to the third of its content, maybe you've got.An alert on your mobile phone to save things so it's not actually stupid.Alain Dhaese:
Yeah..Cory Connors: Yeah.Yeah.It's time, time to reorder.There's an app.We should invent that.And that's that's for consumer that, but that's also within the industry itself.Right.How to communicate or to pass information, report things.More and more they are the sustainable reporting for multinational.Become more and more demanding and,and so this communication through the supply chain, and there will be a presentation at the idea from the subject.So, so that's not so easy to, to, to implement.Cory Connors:
Mm.Well said, well said.Very excited, and thank you both for your wisdom and your time today.Very much appreciate you thank you calling in, in your evening time.So thank you.And thank you for, thank you, thank ez far for sponsoring this episode and putting on such an amazing event that we're all excited about.So hope to see you all there in January.ThankAlain Dhaese:
you.Bye-bye.Thank you.Thank you.Bye-bye.