Sustainable Packaging
Industry Experts discuss all the new materials and ways that packaging can be more sustainable and how we can do our parts to help recycle and reuse. Sustainable Packaging is and will continue to affect us all in our daily lives. We have lots of fun and get down to the real data of what's working to help our planet!
Sustainable Packaging
Dial P for Procurement / Kelly Barner / Podcaster and fellow CAP member
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelly-barner-6884443/
https://artofprocurement.com/
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dial-p-for-procurement/id1610394959
Kelly Barner and I are both part of the first 100 LinkedIn Creator Accelerator Program and now part of the LinkedIn Podcast Academy!
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/packaging-today-show/id1656906367
Join Us Live Daily on LinkedIn Or YouTube or listen at your leisure on Apple or Spotify
Packaging Today Podcast
https://open.spotify.com/show/6dksVwqEFVDWdggd27fyFF?si=e924995740f94e19
https://www.linkedin.com/in/cory-connors/
I'm here to help you make your packaging more sustainable! Reach out today and I'll get back to you asap.
This podcast is an independent production and the podcast production is an original work of the author. All rights of ownership and reproduction are retained—copyright 2022.
Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guest is my friend, Kelly Barner, a fellow podcaster and the head of Content and operations at Art of Procurement. How are you, Kelly?
Kelly Barner:I'm doing great, Corey. I'm glad to be with you.
Cory Connors:We are fellow LinkedIn podcast accelerator program. All the things we're, so fortunate to be a part of these LinkedIn programs, the LinkedIn Creator Accelerator Network, and the LinkedIn Podcast Academy. Great. This is incredible. I think we're the only two that got to do both.
Kelly Barner:I think there's one other person, maybe one other, whose name is escaping I think. But, certainly we went from a hundred people. Yeah. In the first round of the accelerator to I think, 19 podcasts in the academy. So amazing. Absolutely. It's a great opportunity to meet people that aren't from your space. It's probably one of the objectives of the program.
Cory Connors:I think it is. And the, LinkedIn podcasting network, which we all hope to be a part of someday is growing quickly. And if you're listening to this and you haven't tried it yet give it a shot, look through it, it's pretty impressive. The content they've put on there is top notch. Absolutely. But let's talk about you first. Kelly. Let's, focus on what you're doing. Can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you got to be a, podcaster and a head of content?
Kelly Barner:Sure. So the first way that I got here is that I got lost several times on my career. So my original plan was to be a professor of Shakespeare. Obviously that did not pan out. But after redirecting from that, I ended up getting a master's degree in library science, which at least let me be around books. But it also taught me that there's such a thing as a corporate library. So from there I got into knowledge management, information management, and after another wiggle in my journey, I ended up within the same company actually joining their strategic sourcing team. So this was working for a supermarket, so. Anybody that's ever grocery shopped, there are so many things in that store that have to be bought very cost effectively in very large numbers. That don't get resold. So produce bags, right. All the shelving, you're building new stores, but then there's services. Someone has to. Plow the parking lot and wash the windows and clean the floors. So all of the different products and services that go into making a supermarket work, that's how I fell into procurement. A lot of people in, MySpace did not grow up wanting to be procurement professionals, believe it or not. But it's a really fun way to get to see how a business operates from the inside.
Cory Connors:Yes, very important point. I often will stand in a a grocery store and just look around in awe, because I know each product had to go through so many steps to get on the shelf, including packaging, which is my space. Absolutely. But it, somebody had to buy it, somebody had to sell it, somebody had to transport it. Somebody had to figure out what's the best way to put these on a pallet? How long would these last on a shelf? There's so many considerations when, shopping, that you can think through. Incredible.
Kelly Barner:Exactly. And that's why we don't shop hungry, because if you shop hungry, you don't notice all the amazing operational systems at work in that supermarket.
Cory Connors:That's very true. And you'll buy a lot more donuts than you need
Kelly Barner:and possibly eat them before you check
Cory Connors:out. Yeah. Which, we, it's okay as long as you pay more. Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's talk about the LinkedIn Podcast Academy. This is such an amazing honor for us to be. Two out of 19 in the world. Let, what do you think about it? So,
Kelly Barner:So for me, I'm really excited to get to listen to the different tone and subject matter. You know, one of the things, Cory, I don't know if this had struck you about the accelerator program, but you go through LinkedIn with of course, your own professional perspective, and then when you're forced into this broader community, you find out. Wait a minute. There's people in eSports and gaming on LinkedIn. I had no idea. I didn't know about the mental health resources. I didn't know about the diversity and the personal journey elements that are being covered on the space there. There was even art. We had a member of the accelerator that was excellent with art and cooking. Yeah. So there's a much larger world of content out there that sometimes we don't naturally have an opportunity to learn about. And hopefully this podcast academy will be the same.
Cory Connors:Very, true. Well said. And, such an important point for anyone listening to, to take a step outside your comfort zone and look around and, do a search on LinkedIn, and do a search in the LinkedIn podcasting network to, to find something totally different that you haven't listened to before. Because you're exactly right. I was amazed by the, yeah. The, Creator Accelerator program the, first 100 that we were a part. The, amount of talent and the wisdom. We made some great friends. We made some, we did we learned a lot. I mean, Victoria Taylor, we talked about her. She's not with LinkedIn anymore, but she was our, chief. She was amazing. She was incredible. We miss her, but wish her all the best in her new journey. Absolutely. Well, let's talk about your podcast dial P for procurement. Perfect segue here. What's going on with.
Kelly Barner:Yeah, so a little bit of an Alfred Hitchcock, anybody that's an old movie, buff Dial M for murder. We don't kill anybody on this particular podcast. Good. But Dial p for procurement. So, you know we're, talking about what we're learning from the academy. A couple of the things that I've already discovered are maybe a little bit unique about my show without necessarily setting out to do that on purpose. It's a solo podcast format. So generally what I do is I'll take a news story that's, To me some examples of stories, and I'm giving you a scoop here, Corey. These will all be out by the time we share this love of some examples of kind of stories that I'm working on. You know, what do we learn about data-driven decision making from the Norfolk Southern train that derailed in East Palestine, Ohio, right? Obviously, you can look at that as a huge human animal and environmental tragedy, but as business people, there's a lot we can learn about how systems and automation. Play into either preventing a disaster from happening or helping you recover if one does. So that's an example of a story with a little bit of controversy, right? We don't take on simple topics. The next one that I already know, I'm going on to. Work on is an angle on Silicon Valley Bank. Yeah. Certainly the, failure, my gosh, we saw bank runs, right? It's, amazing that we watched this happen in one of the most innovative parts of America. And yet, We've all spent the last three years talking about nothing other than risk. And so understanding where the risk decision making, what the risk philosophy is like, and how that fits into the larger organization. I think S VB gives us a good opportunity to learn from that. So my angle is always to find something just messy and juicy enough that we can take broad lessons learned away from it and maybe expand our thinking. And, make some observations that apply whether we're in rail, whether we're in supply chain, whether we're in banking or financial services, or someplace completely different. There's always something that we can take away from these news stories.
Cory Connors:Well said. And the, Silicon Valley banking issue has trickled down through all parts of the, world of purchasing and packaging and all the, you know, I have several customers who are. Very severely affected by that. And, you know, I couldn't understand why they just stopped reaching out until they said, Hey, we were part of this problem. Give us a few months, we'll get back to you. We do plan to get our money back and can't wait to do this project. But, so a lot of people need to be very patient, need to be understanding. Yes. You know, this is a massive impact, especially on these small startup.
Kelly Barner:No, it certainly is. And just that example you gave, I mean, that's a lesson in communications, right? Every company has a PR team or a comms team, and they're going, okay, do we reach out proactively? How upsetting is that going to be? Do we need to be defensive? What about timing? Right? So it's, so much more complicated than just reaching out and saying, Hey, Corey, just letting you know, right? A lot of thought needs to go into how you handle public image. Is the timing right? Do you have the information you need? Do you know what your plan is? And so teams had to huddle up very quickly over the weekend and figure out what their plan was going to be. But we are going to continue to learn from that story and so many others what to do, what not to do, what needs to be
Cory Connors:changed. Right, right. And, maybe. Take a step back and say, wait. Exactly. Let's not do the knee-jerk reaction which is run in there and scream and our heads off because we're scared. Yes. Because I, think that's hard not to do that sometimes, but Yeah. I've been very impressed with the people that I've heard that have been affected by this. So they're, doing the right things. They're. They're being advised that things will be fine. Yes. And thankfully there's some, government backing there, but we'll see what happens. Let's let's talk about a little bit of your impetus, like why did you get into podcasting? I, get asked that a lot and I think it's an, yeah, I think it's an important story. So what, started your journey into podcast?
Kelly Barner:We'll tell you first and foremost, I'm a multiple time podcast quitter, so, so I was podcasting. Good for you. Back in. Yeah. I'm a recovering podcaster, so I started podcasting back in, oh my gosh, 20 10, 20 11. And I actually started podcasting because at heart I'm still a writer, even though it's procurement and supply chain content and you can't write with other people if you can't conduct a good interview. And so I was putting a lot of effort into becoming a better interviewer. So especially if you have a, reticent guest that you're working with, you have to learn how to build rapport, gain their trust, indicate to them that you've been thoughtful in preparing for the interview. Right? And somewhere along the way we're like, you know what? This is really interesting. In addition to reading my writing, I betcha other people would. To listen to this, and so I started recording the conversations with permission. Of course nothing, sneaky, but free recording the conversations and then sharing them jointly. So here's the written version. Here's the audio version. Yeah. In 20 15, 20 16, that's when I connected with my current business partner, Phillip Eidson. He and I own Art of Procurement together. He says he became a podcaster because he discovered my podcast. Oh. Oh, wow. And I quit podcasting because I started working with him, which allowed me to sort of double down on the writing aspect of my work. But it's hard to stay away once you. It's very hard to stay away, and so I've done a number of different projects over time. I've, certainly, I appear on many episodes of the Art of Procurement podcast. Yeah. But back in 2021, I think it was dial P originally began as a monthly live stream, and then it evolved over time to become a weekly audio podcast. And so I'm just I, love the format, you know, there's never a dull moment, and so it gives me plenty of content fodder to think about and comment on. And I'm, really back to it being sort of a, I don't know. It's an experiment for me. It's, yeah, the content isn't dictated by anything other than my own interests and audience feedback. I love Devi digging into these messy stories and, finding some kind of transferrable lesson. So for me, it's an absolute pleasure and at this point I'm doing because I purely love it. So maybe third time's a charm, but at this point I certainly see myself sticking
Cory Connors:with. Well for you to get national recognition and be one of 19 at the LinkedIn, which is very rewarding Podcast Academy. Geez. That, tells me right there you're doing something right. Well done. Absolutely.
Kelly Barner:Well, and of course the, same back to you and I think, yeah. Thank you. So you started with videos, right? Yeah, I started with get back into audio. That's
Cory Connors:right. Which was totally outside of my comfort zone. I, look back at some of the first ones I made and I think, oh boy, I wasn't very good
Kelly Barner:cringey. My kids would call it cringey. That's, yeah. It's hard to listen to yourself.
Cory Connors:Oh, I still have a tough time with that. Even when editing my own podcast with, great people like yourself, it's like, gosh, do I really sound like that?
Kelly Barner:No, just tell yourself No that's, not what I sound like.
Cory Connors:But I think what the points you've made have been really important here, because I recently was asked if I would write an. For a magazine. And I said, why don't we do that? But why don't we do it in a different way? Why don't, instead of that, why don't you interview me on my podcast and I'll send you the transcript for your magazine. And they thought, wow, that's a great idea. Because then I, cuz I'm not a talented writer like you. I, it's not something I'm good at, but I can talk for hours. Anything related to business generally? Yeah. Especially packaging and procurement. I'm very familiar with that system. Absolutely aren't. We were able to knock out a you know, 3000 word article in, 30 minutes and it was great and it was well done and it went really well, and it you know, we learned a lot from each other and I think that that was a successful way of doing things. So I think people are maybe writing differently. Nowaday.
Kelly Barner:No, I think so too. I do, and I think there has to be an entertainment element. Depending on the content that you're writing, you have to be very careful with the length of it. There's always so much more you wanna communicate than there is realistic time for people to consume. Certainly we're having this conversation in the looming shadow of chat G p t. Yes. Which is completely revolutionizing the way people write, but to me, It's the spark of the idea, it's the creativity. And I will also say between moving into video, which I was, I don't know, I dug my heels in. I didn't hun easily into the, video medium. Yeah. But even being able to keep up a conversation, it's you're thinking and you're listening and you're speaking sort of three tracks all at the same time. Yeah. And I know for me it's taken a very long time to develop the ability. You know, if it's video, keep a pleasant look on your face and also think about what you're saying and also look, listen to what the other person is saying to you. And then to be kind of thinking two steps down the road. I know where we're going with this conversation. What do I need to have in the back of my mind that when someone listens to it or reads it, it feels cohesive. It takes a lot of practice to do this kind of thing, and you have to be doing it constantly for it to come across as comfort.
Cory Connors:So true and such an incredible, it might be. Something to put the brakes on for a lot of people that haven't had these kinds of careers like you and I. But I always tell people I've been training for this since I was a little kid. You know, my, my grandpa was a, top sales rep in aaa. He was number two in the country, and my dad, same one of the top reps in his company. So I'm used to having conversations with people where I just, where. Because I always felt like I was the only person in the world when I would talk to those two amazing men. Yeah. And my goal is to make people feel the same. And I don't even do it intentionally because I think I just, that's how I'm used to it. And if I'm not, I'm, if I'm in a conversation where I don't feel like somebody's really listening to me, it's very, frustrating for me because I, I want to feel fully engaged with that. Would
Kelly Barner:you agree? I would, and I think listening is an underrated skill. Really Active listening. You know, I'm not sort of half listening to you and half like you know, flipping through my phone. I am. I'm reading your body language. I'm watching your face. I'm listening to the sound of your voice. It's, I mean, it's exhausting if we're honest to be active listeners. And then you go through, you know, this is funny. Anybody that's watching, I'll describe it for people listening, but you ever have a, kid and you put them in one of those little carriages at the store that has the driving wheel. You know, and they're driving along hands nice and slow, 10 and two. Of course, we like to be safe, and then they decide to drive faster. They move their hands faster. Well, if you drove a car that way, you would crash and also look crazy and probably get pulled over. Right. I think active listening, there's something similar to that I knew for myself. I worked with a, coach to be on video. Oh, good. And, she would say to me along the way, you know, people know you're listening based on subtle cues. You don't actually have to nod your head the entire time, right. To prove to people that you're listening. Very true. The power of the eye contact and very subtle body movements at the end of the day. Plus your response. All of that indicates the extent to which you've been listening to the person that you're in conversation with. And if you do a really good job, the audience feels like they're in that conversation too, which is always the goal. Yes.
Cory Connors:That is it. We want to feel like we're having a conversation in front of our friends that Absolutely. That they could be involved. You know, I think one of. Biggest training sessions for this was going live on TikTok and then live on LinkedIn and just having these conversations, you know, LinkedIn Live now you can have. Hundreds of people in a room. That's right. And to be able to have a conversation with them live from all around the world. People from South Africa, from South America, from Canada, from U s A, all over the country. And to be able to talk about one specific topic together it's, like, It's an honor. It's so exciting. Absolut be, it's to be part of this community, right?
Kelly Barner:Yes. And it's so rewarding that people choose to spend their time with you, whether it's video or audio, or reading something that you've written. Oh my gosh. And then they, give you a comment. Do not think even after all the posts and articles and, different things that I've written, I never get tired. Someone says to me, Hey, this was a good read. You have made my day like and, I mean it I, could never get to the point where I didn't feel it's like a gift. When people give you even five minutes of their time, they're never getting those five minutes back. And if they chose to spend it with you and also got value from it, hearing about that is incredibly powerful to me. And, that's really, you know, the creative process is hard. That's sort of the fuel that keeps it.
Cory Connors:Oh it's a great feeling and I agree with you. It's like an honor. It is. I have people come up to me at events and they say, I feel like I know you. And I'm like, oh I, think that's good, right? Yes. Is that good news or bad? You know? Yeah. Do you like me? And I don't need everyone to like me, but it's true of course. When, most people do. Absolutely. But yeah very, true. You mentioned chat, G T P earlier. Yes. I wanna talk about that because I think that's kicking us all in the stomach care because we're all very nervous about it. Yeah. Are you concerned with it as a as, a tool that will be used to replace people like you and me, or are you excited about it as a tool that we will be able to.
Kelly Barner:So I'm mostly excited about it now. When I first found out it existed and saw it kind of blasted across every headline, I'll be totally honest, I had a little freak out. Oh my gosh, this is it. It's over. I'm gonna have to learn how to, I don't know, do something else. But what I've learned is it like any other tool, there's sort of a space it fits in. And one of the things so far one of the things so far that is still a human capability. Most of the initial idea generation that's specific to your situation, but then also the real depth of expertise. You know, one of the things that people might not be aware of about Chat G P T if they haven't really dug into all of the articles is that I believe 2021, some month that year is as much up to date as the data is. Well, the world's changed a lot since any month in 2020. So there's an opportunity to be sort of real time in terms of knowledge and understanding. But when you get into deeper verticals and, I know there's verticals within procurement and there's verticals within packaging, but still even just. Procurement and packaging as spaces to exist in. There is so much domain expertise. You and I have interviewed experts and we've seen things that went well, and we've seen things that went terribly, and we've learned from all of that and managed to synthesize it in our heads, right? That type of depth of expertise, chat, GBT is not quite there yet. Saying it won't get there. I'm sure that's the goal. I think we're safe for now and that buys us a little bit of time to continue evolving as, living beings and come up with new ideas, but mostly, I'm excited about it as a way to get a little bit of help and some creativity, you know, a little bit of like speed me along in, in my draft process. Yeah. So there's a ton of powerful things. I'm trying very hard not to be intimidated by it. But I think for now it's that expertise that any of us possesses in absolutely any space. And as we said at the open, there are so many. Really invest in yourself, in your knowledge and your understanding. And then something like chat, g p t will always be a friend. Yeah.
Cory Connors:Yes. You, are not replaceable in, you know your, specific personality, the way you talk, the way you engage. I don't think that could ever be computer in my, in, you know, in my opinion. Yeah. Now are these computers going to replace a lot of the details and the specifics that we do? Of course. Really? Yeah. And that's, not a bad thing. Like you said, maybe we need to focus on the things that make us unique and like you said, how we interview, how we listen. That's right. This is, it's exciting to me. I don't know. I don't. Too nervous about stuff like that, but no. Let's talk a little bit about purchasing. Sure. I, think I'd love to know your thoughts and we can definitely roll in chat G t p into this. Yeah. What's the future of procurement?
Kelly Barner:So my own opinion, the future of procurement is probably smaller teams that are focused on far more strategic things. You know, one of the trends it, was rising in advance of the pandemic and then the pandemic just kind of washed it in. Is that corporate buyers, so distributed in the company out outside of procurement, have been calling for an e-commerce or an Amazon-like experie. Forever, but we didn't have the tools or the processes to make that work cost effectively. And a lot of investment and experimentation and training and implementation has gone into making that possible. So as we are able to set out a framework that allows self-guided buying, self sourcing, we can say, Hey, listen, here's a list of approved suppliers and contracts. Here are some guidelines and frameworks to work inside of whether you need products or service. Knock yourself out. We're gonna be over here working with the C O or the C F O on some major strategic project. We'll bring in subject matter experts as we need to, but I think it's, we've certainly proven our worth to companies over the last few years. And so I think becoming more focused you know, chat G P T reinforces the importance of, specific domain expertise. And as you get into something like procurement, it means that diversity, it means change management, it means digital transformation, it means process redesign, all of those types of disciplines. That's where you can have your expertise as opposed to needing to be an expert in plastics or, fuel or food. Commod. There's always a new opportunity to have expertise, but I genuinely think teams are going to be smaller, but more highly valued and overall have a much larger r o i for the company as a whole.
Cory Connors:Yeah. Incredible points. Thank you so much, Kelly. This is great. I wanna talk about the, thing behind you there. Boston Public Library. I've been looking at it, our whole show. Tell me about that. For the people listening what, is that? Sure. And, where did you get it? Because it's awesome. Sure.
Kelly Barner:It's a shelf. It's actually real. I can touch it. People ask me if it's real all the time. It's actually so little behind the scenes that nobody ever get really gets to see about my office. My desk that I'm sitting at is actually a bar. I'm sitting on a bar stool. My desk is a bar. All of my furniture is supposed to be man cave furniture. But when I was going through the store and saw Boston Public Library, That's it. I've got my library science degree good that I earned from Simmons College in Boston. I love living in this part of the country. I have a whole lot of, Boston's strong pride. And it's just, it's a cool thing to have behind me, although you'd be amazed at how often people ask where I'm located. I feel like
Cory Connors:right there, that's too funny. I need to put, it's just an, it is real behind me. Yeah. Yeah.
Kelly Barner:It's not a fake background. There's all kinds of audio equipment and video equipment up in that, in the top of the shelf, neatly hidden by the, Boston Public Library sign. But just to, you know, we're all thinking about things differently, including our backgrounds. So just a, super. A piece of furniture that I happen to be able to find locally.
Cory Connors:Nice. Love it. Well, thank you so much. What's the best way for people to get in touch with
Kelly Barner:you, Kelly? I would definitely say the best way is LinkedIn. You can search for me, Kelly Barner. You can also look up Art of Procurement. Both of those are perfectly fine ways to find me. I am addicted to LinkedIn, so I'm always on. I do have creator mode turned on, so it's gonna sort of direct you towards follow. Ah, we met through Corey, right? Go ahead and send me a connection request. Drop me a notes that I know this is where you found me, but I'm always glad to have new people in my network and in the conversation regardless of whether what you do has anything to do with procurement or supply
Cory Connors:chain. Yeah, that's a great point too, Kelly. Then those of us that have the creator mode turned on, we're totally up for connecting most of us, I think. Oh, a hundred
Kelly Barner:percent. Yeah.
Cory Connors:That's great. Well said. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate this. I want to thank our sponsors Lances Aurora, for sponsoring this podcast. If you're listening, make sure you subscribe so you don't miss the next episodes, and stay tuned for more. Thanks again, Kelly.
Kelly Barner:Thanks, Cory.
