Root Director / Tracy Sutton

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracysutton/

https://root-innovation.com/

How do we get to the Root of the issue in sustainable packaging? 
Is reusable packaging scalable in different markets? 
Can we take a more wholistic approach to packaging?  

https://anewearthproject.com/collections/new-earth-approved

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Connect with Cory on LinkedIn here: 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/cory-connors/

I'm here to help you make your packaging more sustainable! Reach out today and I'll get back to you asap. 

This podcast is an independent production and the podcast production is an original work of the author. All rights of ownership and reproduction are retained—copyright 2022.

Transcript

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Cory Connors: 0:00

Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guest is my friend Tracy Sutton, the director at Root. How are you, Tracy?

Tracy Sutton: 0:08

Yeah, not too bad. Thanks, Corey. Good to see you.

Cory Connors: 0:11

Good. We met at, Packaging Europe, their Sustainable Packaging event, just a few weeks ago now. I can't believe how time flies. let's talk a little bit about your background and then we'll talk about that event. Can you tell us how you got into this crazy business?

Tracy Sutton: 0:27

Yeah, well, I think it's the same for a lot of people who fell into packaging. I, so I studied sustainable product design 23 years ago. so three whole years dedicated to circular economy or cradle to cradle as it was then. Looking at LCA's and looking at delivery systems, not necessarily single use. so then I was a packaging technologist and a packaging engineer, in medical device, pharma, healthcare, skincare, fragrance, cosmetics, and then it was pretty much a pack tech for a global packaging design and branding agency for seven years. So working really closely with the designers, trying not to say no to things, but trying to say, well, actually, how about if we try this, Okay. Working with what they were called challenges and icons. So the big global brands, and then at the time companies like Innocent Smoothies, when they were starting up. So it's a really nice mixture of, of businesses. And what I've really, it's interesting when I reflect back, cause our company is 10 years old this year about the journey. And actually I've. Without really intending to, I followed my passion of sustainability and packaging and have gone through the journey from creative and looking at systems and service design, all the way through to being a pack tech and understanding all the regulatory and the mandatory side of things and the print qualities and going on print runs, getting purples for Cadbury, absolutely spot on. And then doing all the things in terms of quality and assurance and, And then working with designers as well, and then doing, it's actually provided such a kind of by, yeah, a bit of by accident, but maybe it's something that I've unconsciously designed coming out with a consultancy that does what we do today.

Cory Connors: 2:08

I love to hear that background where people have actually worked in production and actually, actually been at a press check, actually tried to match a color, actually try, with the client on press and, had that frustration of, I need that red to be more red. Yeah. What does that mean? Yeah. very,

Tracy Sutton: 2:31

isn't it such a, there's so much to packaging and often someone Specializes in one of those particular areas and, yeah, no, it's, I joke about the fact that I'm a packaging geek and most of the team are pretty much

Cory Connors: 2:45

welcome to the world of packaging geeks. Yeah, this is where you are safe here. My friend. Yes, well, let's talk a little bit about root. Can you tell us about what it is that you do there?

Tracy Sutton: 2:57

Yes, also, we're the trusted advisor really of sustainable packaging, delivering really what we consider world class advice for strategy policy and impact as well. So generally we're working with international brands and also packaging producers and the core. Of the work that we do is around future proofing them against not just the regulatory landscape for helping them to become fit for a regenerative future. So it's not just about sustainability or making single use less bad. it's really about quite a holistic approach that we've developed. And also we've got our design for life approach, which is, after all my background in sustainable design, cradle to cradle and all the different experience that I had, I really felt that it was important to have our own approach to packaging. It was very holistic. So it's based on life cycle thinking. And it's really about identifying and mitigating the regulatory reputational risks by looking, having a new way of thinking about packaging and thinking about things, longer term as opposed to short term. We've got, a really passionate team. We're very much driven by the urgency for change. We're very much, as I say, packaging geeks or packaging sustainability specialists. and we've got, I think, between is more than 65 years of experience covering regulation, technical materials, design thinking, recycling and waste management. and also global, the global sustainability agenda at large, which is quite vast, quite holistic. Yeah,

Cory Connors: 4:19

well done. I'd like to see that approach of thinking, like you said, globally, you're based in the UK. Yes. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And oftentimes you're working with companies all over the world.

Tracy Sutton: 4:31

Yeah. We've got clients in Brazil, Amsterdam, France. we've worked with clients in the Middle East. I think most of our clients are based in Europe, but also generally they're working for global businesses. So we might be working with an APAC team or an EMEA team. and we've got team, yeah, other contractors as well. Part of the team that are based in all sorts of parts of the world from Poland to. And down to, dates as

Cory Connors: 4:53

well. Well done. Good for you. Congratulations. I, I appreciate what you're doing. It's so important for our future, as a community globally, but we met and I got to the honor and privilege of hearing you speak at, packaging Europe's sustainable packaging summit, with Mr. Tim Sykes and his team there. can you tell us about that and your experience there? Yeah,

Tracy Sutton: 5:15

so I've been on the advisory board for the event for a couple of years and, so it's really useful. It's a fantastic opportunity to shape the agenda. And what I love about what Tim and the team do there is they give you a fantastic platform to tell the industry what they need to hear as opposed to what they want to hear. And that's a real fine balance. It's a really fine balance, as you'll know, really, because there's so many businesses there that need to hear information and really need to be nudged into changing their business practices, at their core, at their roots, we would say, as opposed to making certain things a little bit bigger. so I think that the stage and the event that Tim has created is fantastic. The awards that they do are, really good in terms of really inviting. I can't remember how many awards, how many entries there were. There were hundreds and hundreds of them. Yes, and I think what I also really like is how they're bringing in the investors agenda. So bringing in lots of voices and the events becoming more global in the panelists, including yourself as well. So investors having their voices heard. and some of the really. some messages around, if progress were left to the hands of producers, nothing would happen. And so quite, obviously quite bold messages that I think people really need to hear. Brands are being more honest about the impact that they're having. and they're definitely investing more in sustainability. It's safe to say, but I also feel like the producers are at the highest risk of. Becoming extinct. We saw what happened to the packaging sector or the plastic sector when blue planet happened. And so many businesses were not ready for that at all. And a lot of our clients work in the plastics or the packaging sector. And they're, so many really good friends of mine because I've been doing what we do for so long. Yeah, really such a good platform to invite and encourage more innovation, celebrate the brands that are doing lots of good things. So some of the award winners were in reuse and refill, which was fantastic. and also I really love about those events are that it really brings together lots of really passionate packaging people from all around the world who we might know each other from LinkedIn or different areas. And, we're all working towards very similar objectives. So, there's such a really good community. And, the, I think the final point is we're, I believe we're becoming more comfortable having difficult conversations. Yes, they name it to tame it as I say, so it's naming the challenges that we've got calling out certain things, whether it's around greenwash or kind of advocacy work, which kind of really holds back to the proper progress. And also addressing some things like diversity or the lack of diversity that there is in the sector, which crosses many sectors so. Yeah, lots of honesty and lots of good conversations at that event for sure.

Cory Connors: 7:56

I agree. It's, it seems like people are ready to be called to the table. And, if they're not at the table already and they're, they understand that if they've been waiting on the sidelines, it's time to play. And it's time to, like you said, invest that money. the investors I spoke to, the VCs I spoke to said there has never been this many startups in sustainable packaging ever in the history of the world. so the, they understand what's coming and that, like you said, The shake up is here, and we need to be ready to, abide by the laws and act in a way that is more sustainable for our future generations. Yeah, like it or not. Right. Well, tell us about. let's say I'm a brand and I'm coming to root and I'm, a little bit nervous about the future. and, we use a lot of packaging and some of it's plastic. Is that okay? And what do we do, Tracy? tell us the secret, how would you start to calm them down and guide them a little bit? Well, it's

Tracy Sutton: 9:02

kind of, to some extent, it's the bit I love the most and sometimes it's the hardest and the best bit at the same time. So the reason that the company Root was because it's often someone will come and say, Oh, we want to go to compostables for flexible packaging, or we want to go into glass for refills. So they'll come with a brief. And I've always been a very candid person because I really care about giving people the right advice rather than sugarcoating it. And the great thing is it's really about listening and actively listening about where the, where they're going, why they're wanting to make a decision, and helping them really understand the most impactful way that we can help them depending on their budget. And we want to really select the work that we're really good at. If there's something, sometimes we'll get. Somebody will come to us and we'll say, well, actually, you may as well just work directly with the supplier or go and speak to this organization first, or actually go back and look at your sustainability strategy, because that's the work that needs doing. so really the, we have some really great scoping calls with clients and listen to what their needs are, understand how the business works, how the team is, what expertise they've got in the team and what. Expertise we can plug in terms of what those gaps are. rather than applying, or setting together a proposal whereby they only need help in this area., you all know that most packaging teams are under-resourced, full stop. I dunno. That many packaging teams in any business that I've worked with that has got. enough packaging experience or enough resource. so a lot is about resource, but the primary kind of work that we do is around setting packaging strategies. So giving them an overarching vision and ambitions and clear goals and a roadmap that is fit for the growth strategy of the business. It helps them meet their sustainability goals and reporting requirements. And also it gives them a real clear kind of USP or a position against their competitors as well. Yeah. so the, most of the work we did around strategy, but we also do a lot more, as you can imagine, increasing amount, a really big shift actually around the regulatory side of things, which we've done from day one. It's always been embedded in the strategy work that we do, but that because it's become such a loud part of everybody's, or such a big part of everybody's problems around packaging. Right. People want more detail and more guidance and more reassurance and at a higher level in terms of presenting, information to the board around investments about assets and infrastructure, as opposed to which packaging type should we use. So the level and the kind of elevation of the support that we're giving has increased, which is, it's, yeah, it's all fantastic work. Difficult, some of it, Yes. really very rewarding.

Cory Connors: 11:22

Well done. I always respect and appreciate people that say, not everybody's the right fit for us. Yeah. And, we are, in agreeance with you, Orora packaging is the same. if we say, maybe this doesn't fit for what we do exactly. And here's the person that would be the right fit for what you're looking for. that is such a, an honorable thing to do. You can't always try to jam the problem into what, into the solutions that you have, I always say you go to a box company, you're going to get a box, you go to a packaging solutions company, you're going to get the right solution, and it sounds like you have that same mentality. So well done. Yeah, thanks. You guys, produced a report, reuse and refill report. can you tell us about that and what was that all about?

Tracy Sutton: 12:12

Yeah. So, it's really interesting. We did it last year as, because all the team are really passionate. So the, our strapline is helping brands do more with less. So less packaging, less impacts, less risk, less cost in many instances where it comes to EPR, et cetera. And so many businesses, reuse and refill just felt that felt like this intangible thing that people couldn't quite grasp, there's a parent bullet of which is definitely not. And so what we really wanted to do was to make sense of lots of different resources that were available. So the first one we did last year, and like I said, it was really driven by us wanting to have an impact and give our expertise away with no charge, because we really wanted to pull together things and really be a bit of a catalyst to people getting up. standing up and investing time and money and breaking down this really complex subject over and above the big kind of global, 100 percent packaging, reusable, recyclable, the least amount of effort and activity and investments going on around reuse. And it's so confusing. So, yeah, so the team of, I think it was over 50 different reports. I can't remember how many pages that we reviewed. and that's really looking at and critiquing at the work that's been done by NGOs, international policy makers, other really great consultancies, industry leaders and lobbyists, and really analyzing and understanding some of the key things over and above everything that we already know, around all the principles around eco design as well, consumer behavior. And then we add what we call our root perspective, which is critiquing them and summarizing it into what are the key themes that businesses need to consider in terms of breaking it down? and what are the tangible actions that brands and producers can take? Because what we hate is It's reading lots of information and it's like someone comes to us, go, we've done an LCA, but, but we don't know what to do, but they don't know how to interpret, or they would have given a, been given a piece of advice or carried out a piece of work with someone else, but then there's no action. They have a question and a problem that they need solving, but they don't know how to solve it. And we wanted to summarize it. So we've got. There's five different areas. So the summary, which is one of the most pressing ones in terms of the global policy landscape and what's coming, a section around increasing consumer engagement and really understanding what levers to pull, which is, yeah. One of the hardest aspects, different systems and solutions, and then rolling and reuse out across multiple markets. We've got lots of experience working with big brands whereby there'll be piloting a solution in one market. And then there's different regulation and different mandates in a different market. It might be about a quick service restaurants or beverages, for example. so really understanding, well, how are we supposed to take this kind of regional and then national policy, but then roll something out across multiple markets and get the scale that we really need. Right. We've translated that into a reuse roadmap. So giving brands or businesses. A step by step approach in terms of the key things they need to do to start doing something. Yeah,

Cory Connors: 15:02

that's exciting. I love that. I, enjoy the possibility of reusable packaging. I think it's a, I think it's going to be a big part of the future. What do you think it's going to be a larger part of the future? For packaging.

Tracy Sutton: 15:18

Undoubtedly. well, the key thing is that we need to not over academify things and complicate them. So what we're doing at the moment is, and there's lots of different reasons for this, but one of the things is, we do need standards. We do need health and safety. Absolutely critical. But we've lived with quite poorly performing single use packaging in many instances. Well, from poorly performing to fantastically performing. Yeah.

Cory Connors: 15:43

Over performing. Right.

Tracy Sutton: 15:44

Yeah. Completely, absolutely over engineered. and, but we've been okay about putting that out on the market for the last however many decades. And so I think that there's a hesitancy or a, a tendency for some businesses to overcomplicate things and actually not really be committed to doing reuse or not understanding the need to really embed it into the business case or into the commercial strategy of a business. So, I think we're, With or without intent, we're slowing progress. And I think the key thing is to keep things simple and to start something and try something. Because with any reuse roadmap, you've got to start here. You've got to, you've got to be very agile in the way that you nuance and adjust it. And then you've got to, you've got to factor in the regulatory side of things as well. So it's not simple, but we also need to not overcomplicate it as well.

Cory Connors: 16:35

It's not simple. You're exactly right. And, but it's not, like you said, over, what did you say? Overscientificate or overacademy? I love that word. I'm going to use that. Yes. Packaging is simple and totally complicated the same way. Sustainability is everything and sustainability is nothing. I've, I think this is episode 230 and I've asked almost everyone. What do you think about sustainable packaging? And they all have a different answer. And, the people are really brilliant like you. They are scientists. They are academics. They are, global. Leads to big companies and small companies. And, so I guess what I'm saying is we have a lot to learn and we have a long ways to go. My gray. So what's, what's in, in line for you in the near future, you have, any big shows coming up, are you going to Paris packaging week?

Tracy Sutton: 17:33

Yeah, so I'm going to be going to the sustainable packaging coalition, their impact event in April. I'll

Cory Connors: 17:40

be there. New Orleans. Yeah.

Tracy Sutton: 17:43

So I'll be, I'll be on your territory. I think that's the main worry really. we have different people in the team going to different events and different markets sometimes, but, there's two aspects of it. What we often find is that there's only a couple of key events whereby there's really progressive conversation going on over and above the kind of the trade stands where there's stuff going on that isn't really that innovative.. If that's that more strategic thinking and thinking about the global sustainability agenda more so. So I think that's what's really interesting about the, the sustainable packaging coalition's agenda, which is,

Cory Connors: 18:12

yeah, I agree. I've been to everyone, of their events in the last couple of years, except for their London event, which they recently had. I don't know if you've heard about that. but. I'll be there in, New Orleans with you. So we'll have to meet up there and, get some gumbo or some local fare. but they don't hold back. They, absolutely, like, the sustainable packaging summit in Amsterdam that we'll hopefully see each other out in November next year. it's a very similar mindset of let's really talk about this and let's see what we can do together to move forward. Yeah.

Tracy Sutton: 18:45

It's a really good agenda. so yeah, we're really looking forward to that.

Cory Connors: 18:49

Exciting. Well, how do people get in touch with you and your company?

Tracy Sutton: 18:53

Ah, so they can connect with myself or Hannah, we're the best people to get hold of. So, Tracy Sutton and then Hannah Worthington. So you can find us on LinkedIn. that's probably the best way to get hold of us, I would say, drop us a message and then we've got a contact page on our website as well. So, if people want to find out more, they can get in touch there.

Cory Connors: 19:12

Thank you, Tracy. This has been really insightful, and I appreciate your wisdom. And, thank you. You're welcome.