{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":0.003,"endTime":2.003,"body":"Welcome"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":0.003,"endTime":2.003,"body":"to Sustainable Packaging"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":2.003,"endTime":3.233,"body":"with Cory Connors"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":3.303,"endTime":4.733,"body":"and Brodie Vander Dussen"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":5.143,"endTime":6.973,"body":"."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":5.143,"endTime":6.973,"body":"Cory Connors: We're"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":6.973,"endTime":10.613,"body":"John Smieja , the Vice President"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":6.973,"endTime":10.613,"body":"of Circularity at Trellis"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":10.623,"endTime":12.306,"body":"Group, on the show again."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":12.418,"endTime":16.668,"body":"We have a recap from his"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":12.418,"endTime":16.668,"body":"trip to Korea, negotiations"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":16.718,"endTime":20.808,"body":"underway for a PASC treaty,"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":16.718,"endTime":20.808,"body":"and so much more to discuss."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":20.848,"endTime":22.138,"body":"But welcome, John."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":22.148,"endTime":23.368,"body":"Thanks for joining us today."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":23.723,"endTime":23.933,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":23.933,"endTime":26.063,"body":"Thanks for having me,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":23.933,"endTime":26.063,"body":"Corey and Brody, welcome"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":26.063,"endTime":27.273,"body":"to the ranks of podcast."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":28.473,"endTime":28.943,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":29.183,"endTime":29.693,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":29.983,"endTime":31.213,"body":"I'm happy to be here."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":31.883,"endTime":33.653,"body":"John, thanks for coming"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":31.883,"endTime":33.653,"body":"back to the show."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":33.663,"endTime":36.863,"body":"We're really excited to"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":33.663,"endTime":36.863,"body":"have you for those who maybe"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":36.863,"endTime":39.133,"body":"didn't listen to the, your"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":36.863,"endTime":39.133,"body":"previous episodes where"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":39.133,"endTime":40.133,"body":"you were on with Corey."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":40.143,"endTime":42.663,"body":"Can you share a little"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":40.143,"endTime":42.663,"body":"bit about, what you do"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":42.683,"endTime":45.093,"body":"about yourself, what"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":42.683,"endTime":45.093,"body":"you do at Trellis?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":45.713,"endTime":46.753,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":45.713,"endTime":46.753,"body":"well, shame on them."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":46.753,"endTime":47.643,"body":"It was a great episode."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":47.713,"endTime":48.203,"body":"No, I'm just kidding."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":48.473,"endTime":48.813,"body":"let's see."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":48.883,"endTime":50.853,"body":"when I think of myself,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":48.883,"endTime":50.853,"body":"I usually describe myself"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":50.853,"endTime":52.283,"body":"as a recovering chemist."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":52.403,"endTime":54.693,"body":"basically meaning that I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":52.403,"endTime":54.693,"body":"have a PhD in chemistry"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":54.693,"endTime":56.073,"body":"that I never really used."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":56.453,"endTime":59.903,"body":"and over the last 13 years,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":56.453,"endTime":59.903,"body":"since I left graduate"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":59.913,"endTime":62.813,"body":"school, I've mostly just"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":59.913,"endTime":62.813,"body":"been trying to become a guy"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":62.813,"endTime":65.963,"body":"that talks at his own shoes"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":62.813,"endTime":65.963,"body":"less and talks to people."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":67.138,"endTime":69.858,"body":"So before I got into this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":67.138,"endTime":69.858,"body":"role at Green Biz, now"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":69.878,"endTime":72.738,"body":"Trellis, I spent 10 years"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":69.878,"endTime":72.738,"body":"in corporate sustainability."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":73.108,"endTime":75.258,"body":"and since then I've been the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":73.108,"endTime":75.258,"body":"vice president of circularity"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":75.258,"endTime":76.628,"body":"here for about three years."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":76.808,"endTime":79.618,"body":"if folks don't know Green"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":76.808,"endTime":79.618,"body":"Biz or formerly Green Biz,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":79.628,"endTime":80.488,"body":"now we're called Trellis."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":80.488,"endTime":81.708,"body":"We rebranded over the summer."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":81.958,"endTime":86.148,"body":"we have a mission to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":81.958,"endTime":86.148,"body":"support companies and the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":86.148,"endTime":89.198,"body":"professionals working to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":86.148,"endTime":89.198,"body":"combat climate change."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":89.433,"endTime":92.143,"body":"We do that through in person"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":89.433,"endTime":92.143,"body":"events like Circularity that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":92.143,"endTime":94.953,"body":"I organize, as well as Green"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":92.143,"endTime":94.953,"body":"Biz, Verge, and Bloom, our"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":94.953,"endTime":96.173,"body":"other three major events."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":96.473,"endTime":98.023,"body":"through our peer to peer"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":96.473,"endTime":98.023,"body":"learning network for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":98.023,"endTime":100.333,"body":"corporate sustainability"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":98.023,"endTime":100.333,"body":"professionals, where we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":100.333,"endTime":103.833,"body":"have, vertical communities in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":100.333,"endTime":103.833,"body":"North American and European"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":103.833,"endTime":106.433,"body":"strategies, circular economy,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":103.833,"endTime":106.433,"body":"nature and biodiversity,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":106.433,"endTime":107.623,"body":"communications, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":108.013,"endTime":110.543,"body":"and finally, our editorial"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":108.013,"endTime":110.543,"body":"coverage that's really geared"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":110.543,"endTime":113.173,"body":"towards sharing actionable"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":110.543,"endTime":113.173,"body":"insights with the corporate"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":113.173,"endTime":114.253,"body":"sustainability community."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":114.283,"endTime":118.018,"body":"Things like case studies,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":114.283,"endTime":118.018,"body":"news that they can"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":118.018,"endTime":119.158,"body":"use, in their roles."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":119.168,"endTime":122.568,"body":"So that's a little bit about me"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":119.168,"endTime":122.568,"body":"and a little bit about Trellis."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":123.708,"endTime":124.988,"body":"I've"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":123.708,"endTime":124.988,"body":"actually had an opportunity"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":124.988,"endTime":130.168,"body":"to go to Green Biz, be, and be"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":124.988,"endTime":130.168,"body":"part of, I'm a, an avid reader"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":130.188,"endTime":131.928,"body":"of the Trellis newsletter."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":132.198,"endTime":136.223,"body":"it's been so helpful to, to,"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":132.198,"endTime":136.223,"body":"learn a lot, I've learned a"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":136.223,"endTime":139.113,"body":"lot, but also get plugged in"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":136.223,"endTime":139.113,"body":"and meeting other people who"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":139.113,"endTime":141.003,"body":"are struggling with the same"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":139.113,"endTime":141.003,"body":"things I'm struggling with."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":141.413,"endTime":144.233,"body":"Or, yeah, I, the case"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":141.413,"endTime":144.233,"body":"studies themselves I"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":144.233,"endTime":145.283,"body":"think are really helpful."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":145.313,"endTime":147.883,"body":"Even thinking outside the"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":145.313,"endTime":147.883,"body":"box, there's so many solutions"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":147.893,"endTime":150.683,"body":"out there, even though I"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":147.893,"endTime":150.683,"body":"think all of our problems"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":150.683,"endTime":152.923,"body":"feel unique, they rarely are."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":153.293,"endTime":156.423,"body":"And so I think that the network"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":153.293,"endTime":156.423,"body":"like Trellis has been so"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":156.423,"endTime":159.463,"body":"helpful that, yeah, thank you"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":156.423,"endTime":159.463,"body":"for all the work you're doing."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":159.783,"endTime":160.753,"body":"It's really valuable."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":161.243,"endTime":162.623,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":161.243,"endTime":162.623,"body":"the network's interesting."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":162.623,"endTime":165.223,"body":"It started, man, 17"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":162.623,"endTime":165.223,"body":"or 18 years ago now."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":165.253,"endTime":167.423,"body":"And when it started, most"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":165.253,"endTime":167.423,"body":"companies, if they had a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":167.423,"endTime":169.903,"body":"sustainability function,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":167.423,"endTime":169.903,"body":"only have one person, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":169.903,"endTime":172.523,"body":"So it was this method to make"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":169.903,"endTime":172.523,"body":"people feel less isolated"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":172.523,"endTime":173.663,"body":"in their day to day jobs."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":173.953,"endTime":175.593,"body":"So they could learn people"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":173.953,"endTime":175.593,"body":"that were struggling"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":175.593,"endTime":176.663,"body":"with the same challenges."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":176.703,"endTime":178.723,"body":"And since then, as we've"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":176.703,"endTime":178.723,"body":"seen, the corporate"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":178.723,"endTime":181.403,"body":"sustainability community grow,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":178.723,"endTime":181.403,"body":"two things have happened."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":181.403,"endTime":183.373,"body":"One, people still feel a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":181.403,"endTime":183.373,"body":"little isolated because"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":183.383,"endTime":186.643,"body":"they're still often, teams"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":183.383,"endTime":186.643,"body":"of five to 10 in companies"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":186.643,"endTime":190.693,"body":"of thousands, but their jobs"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":186.643,"endTime":190.693,"body":"have become more, organized"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":190.693,"endTime":191.993,"body":"into specific functions."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":192.023,"endTime":194.183,"body":"And so even if they are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":192.023,"endTime":194.183,"body":"part of a five or 10 person"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":194.183,"endTime":196.413,"body":"sustainability team, they're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":194.183,"endTime":196.413,"body":"still the only one doing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":196.413,"endTime":200.493,"body":"circular economy work  or"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":196.413,"endTime":200.493,"body":"sustainability communications,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":200.493,"endTime":201.193,"body":"et cetera, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":201.213,"endTime":204.053,"body":"I think that the network"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":201.213,"endTime":204.053,"body":"model is held up even"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":204.133,"endTime":206.943,"body":"despite the sort of growth"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":204.133,"endTime":206.943,"body":"of the industry over time."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":207.193,"endTime":207.433,"body":"Well said."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":208.533,"endTime":211.833,"body":"And I think it's an"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":208.533,"endTime":211.833,"body":"interesting point to discuss"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":212.163,"endTime":215.763,"body":"how companies are evolving"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":212.163,"endTime":215.763,"body":"and changing constantly"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":215.793,"endTime":220.263,"body":"with these new additions of,"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":215.793,"endTime":220.263,"body":"sustainability related roles,"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":220.643,"endTime":222.333,"body":"circularity related roles."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":222.653,"endTime":226.343,"body":"I think, like you said, it used"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":222.653,"endTime":226.343,"body":"to be maybe one person, maybe"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":226.353,"endTime":228.833,"body":"somebody from the marketing"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":226.353,"endTime":228.833,"body":"team was in charge of, Oh yeah,"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":228.833,"endTime":229.983,"body":"we should be sustainable too."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":229.983,"endTime":230.913,"body":"Let's talk about that."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":231.273,"endTime":233.833,"body":"That's a, that's an important"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":231.273,"endTime":233.833,"body":"part of what we're doing."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":234.213,"endTime":237.523,"body":"let's have a sustainability"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":234.213,"endTime":237.523,"body":"function, but now it's"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":237.523,"endTime":238.653,"body":"like you said, it's a team."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":238.663,"endTime":240.003,"body":"It's a group of people."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":240.263,"endTime":243.413,"body":"And these are the kinds of"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":240.263,"endTime":243.413,"body":"people that we meet at your"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":243.413,"endTime":246.523,"body":"events like circularity, one of"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":243.413,"endTime":246.523,"body":"my favorite events every year."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":246.963,"endTime":250.723,"body":"but your title on yours,"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":246.963,"endTime":250.723,"body":"LinkedIn says circular"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":250.743,"endTime":252.263,"body":"economy enthusiast."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":252.638,"endTime":254.958,"body":"I'd love to know about"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":252.638,"endTime":254.958,"body":"that because more and"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":254.958,"endTime":257.428,"body":"more people are saying"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":254.958,"endTime":257.428,"body":"sustainability isn't a thing,"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":257.768,"endTime":259.078,"body":"but circularity is a thing."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":259.138,"endTime":260.528,"body":"Like, well, what's a thing?"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":260.588,"endTime":262.188,"body":"tell us what does"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":260.588,"endTime":262.188,"body":"that mean to you, sir?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":262.738,"endTime":263.828,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":262.738,"endTime":263.828,"body":"it's a good question."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":263.828,"endTime":265.218,"body":"I've had that up"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":263.828,"endTime":265.218,"body":"there for a long time."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":266.208,"endTime":268.138,"body":"Nobody ever really asked me"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":266.208,"endTime":268.138,"body":"about what it actually means."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":268.268,"endTime":273.288,"body":"I'm a firm believer that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":268.268,"endTime":273.288,"body":"material use and waste are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":273.318,"endTime":275.988,"body":"as big of a concern as global"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":273.318,"endTime":275.988,"body":"crisis is climate right now."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":276.018,"endTime":277.958,"body":"And I believe the only way"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":276.018,"endTime":277.958,"body":"to address that problem is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":277.978,"endTime":280.808,"body":"through a transition to a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":277.978,"endTime":280.808,"body":"circular economy and that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":280.828,"endTime":284.188,"body":"transition has to include,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":280.828,"endTime":284.188,"body":"reduction of material"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":284.188,"endTime":287.978,"body":"use, reuse, refurbishing,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":284.188,"endTime":287.978,"body":"remanufacturing, resale, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":288.318,"endTime":290.848,"body":"at least in my opinion, when"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":288.318,"endTime":290.848,"body":"all else fails, recycling."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":291.398,"endTime":294.023,"body":"I think it should"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":291.398,"endTime":294.023,"body":"be a, Last resort."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":294.403,"endTime":297.193,"body":"And, the side benefit to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":294.403,"endTime":297.193,"body":"a circular economy is if"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":297.433,"endTime":299.573,"body":"we do it wisely and we do"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":297.433,"endTime":299.573,"body":"it well, it can also help"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":299.573,"endTime":300.563,"body":"us meet our climate goals."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":301.003,"endTime":305.913,"body":"I think the challenge that we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":301.003,"endTime":305.913,"body":"face right now with the linear"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":305.913,"endTime":308.943,"body":"economy is really best displayed"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":305.913,"endTime":308.943,"body":"in I don't know if you're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":308.943,"endTime":311.193,"body":"familiar with the Stockholm"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":308.943,"endTime":311.193,"body":"Resilience Center and their"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":311.193,"endTime":311.248,"body":"Stockholm Resilience Center."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":311.698,"endTime":313.028,"body":"planetary boundaries."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":313.418,"endTime":317.548,"body":"So as of 2023, they have these"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":313.418,"endTime":317.548,"body":"they've defined these nine"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":317.548,"endTime":320.388,"body":"planetary boundaries, and we've"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":317.548,"endTime":320.388,"body":"actually crossed six of them"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":320.408,"endTime":322.068,"body":"per the data that they look at."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":322.528,"endTime":324.138,"body":"And those six are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":322.528,"endTime":324.138,"body":"novel entities."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":324.138,"endTime":326.878,"body":"So think like, synthetic"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":324.138,"endTime":326.878,"body":"chemicals being introduced,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":326.878,"endTime":329.728,"body":"radioactive materials,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":326.878,"endTime":329.728,"body":"genetically modified"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":329.728,"endTime":330.838,"body":"organisms, things like that."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":330.838,"endTime":332.828,"body":"So novel entities there"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":330.838,"endTime":332.828,"body":"that have now been"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":332.828,"endTime":334.058,"body":"released into the world."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":334.298,"endTime":336.678,"body":"we've passed that we've"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":334.298,"endTime":336.678,"body":"passed our climate change,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":336.728,"endTime":337.788,"body":"planetary boundary."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":338.148,"endTime":340.408,"body":"We've passed what they"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":338.148,"endTime":340.408,"body":"call biosphere integrity."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":340.408,"endTime":343.388,"body":"So decline in diversity"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":340.408,"endTime":343.388,"body":"and extent and health"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":343.388,"endTime":345.398,"body":"of living ecosystems."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":346.068,"endTime":348.338,"body":"We've passed land"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":346.068,"endTime":348.338,"body":"systems change."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":348.338,"endTime":351.158,"body":"So that's like transformation"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":348.338,"endTime":351.158,"body":"of natural landscapes through"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":351.208,"endTime":354.338,"body":"deforestation, urbanization,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":351.208,"endTime":354.338,"body":"desertification, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":355.203,"endTime":357.123,"body":"Freshwater change is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":355.203,"endTime":357.123,"body":"another one we've passed."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":357.123,"endTime":359.123,"body":"So that's like the way"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":357.123,"endTime":359.123,"body":"we use the water in our"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":359.123,"endTime":360.763,"body":"rivers, lakes, and aquifers."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":361.043,"endTime":365.463,"body":"and then the, one of my favorite"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":361.043,"endTime":365.463,"body":"terms, biogeochemical flows."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":365.473,"endTime":368.553,"body":"So that's, it's like phosphorus"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":365.473,"endTime":368.553,"body":"and nitrogen and the way that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":368.553,"endTime":371.223,"body":"we're using it on crops, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":368.553,"endTime":371.223,"body":"then it's ending up in our"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":371.223,"endTime":372.433,"body":"waterways and in our lands."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":372.433,"endTime":372.663,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":372.993,"endTime":375.833,"body":"And so for all six of these"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":372.993,"endTime":375.833,"body":"places that we've crossed"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":375.843,"endTime":378.988,"body":"bonnet, planetary boundaries,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":375.843,"endTime":378.988,"body":"The circular economy could"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":378.988,"endTime":380.808,"body":"really help us in a lot"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":378.988,"endTime":380.808,"body":"of these places, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":380.808,"endTime":385.408,"body":"And really could, stem the tide"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":380.808,"endTime":385.408,"body":"of this, ecosystem destruction,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":385.438,"endTime":386.718,"body":"that we're forcing on the earth."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":386.968,"endTime":389.648,"body":"and also maybe even revert"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":386.968,"endTime":389.648,"body":"us back to a place, that's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":389.718,"endTime":390.688,"body":"a little more regenerative."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":390.698,"endTime":393.948,"body":"So I guess that's a long way"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":390.698,"endTime":393.948,"body":"of saying that when I'm, say"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":393.948,"endTime":397.218,"body":"I'm an enthusiast, it means I'm"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":393.948,"endTime":397.218,"body":"excited about all the various"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":397.218,"endTime":401.633,"body":"things interventions that the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":397.218,"endTime":401.633,"body":"global economy can have, when we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":401.633,"endTime":405.293,"body":"decouple human transparency from"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":401.633,"endTime":405.293,"body":"material extraction and waste."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":405.603,"endTime":409.533,"body":"So I'm really excited about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":405.603,"endTime":409.533,"body":"the possibility of a circular"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":409.533,"endTime":412.123,"body":"economy that we don't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":409.533,"endTime":412.123,"body":"really see yet anywhere."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":412.903,"endTime":413.383,"body":"Me too."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":413.638,"endTime":413.978,"body":"Me too."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":413.978,"endTime":414.498,"body":"Well said."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":414.928,"endTime":415.758,"body":"it's possible."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":415.848,"endTime":419.608,"body":"And then you and I are very"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":415.848,"endTime":419.608,"body":"optimistic people, occasionally"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":419.608,"endTime":424.118,"body":"pessimistic when we reach into"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":419.608,"endTime":424.118,"body":"a certain, way of, thought, or,"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":424.528,"endTime":427.638,"body":"after three days in an event"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":424.528,"endTime":427.638,"body":"and you keep hearing the same"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":427.668,"endTime":430.653,"body":"things, it's like, Listen, it's"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":427.668,"endTime":430.653,"body":"time to shake it up a little"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":430.653,"endTime":433.393,"body":"bit and make some changes"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":430.653,"endTime":433.393,"body":"here, but very well said."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":433.393,"endTime":438.643,"body":"I believe a circular economy"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":433.393,"endTime":438.643,"body":"is possible and very necessary."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":438.643,"endTime":439.893,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":440.143,"endTime":442.203,"body":"really, I"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":440.143,"endTime":442.203,"body":"love and I want to touch back to"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":442.203,"endTime":445.243,"body":"what you said that recyclability"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":442.203,"endTime":445.243,"body":"is almost a last resort."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":445.773,"endTime":449.353,"body":"I think when we talk about"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":445.773,"endTime":449.353,"body":"sustainability, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":449.353,"endTime":453.843,"body":"we recyclability metric"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":449.353,"endTime":453.843,"body":"over everything else."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":453.873,"endTime":455.903,"body":"And it it makes everything"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":453.873,"endTime":455.903,"body":"else feel like noise and"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":455.903,"endTime":456.983,"body":"it's not necessarily."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":457.753,"endTime":459.883,"body":"A circular economy"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":457.753,"endTime":459.883,"body":"isn't recyclability."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":459.913,"endTime":461.143,"body":"Those are not synonymous."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":461.493,"endTime":464.503,"body":"And so I think even I want"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":461.493,"endTime":464.503,"body":"to talk a little bit about,"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":464.603,"endTime":466.113,"body":"you just got back from Korea."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":466.383,"endTime":466.893,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":467.013,"endTime":470.513,"body":"And plastics as much as we"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":467.013,"endTime":470.513,"body":"talk about recyclability,"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":470.523,"endTime":473.543,"body":"that's something that really"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":470.523,"endTime":473.543,"body":"they bought up their heads,"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":473.743,"endTime":478.193,"body":"but heads with is the plastics"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":473.743,"endTime":478.193,"body":"versus recyclability and."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":478.473,"endTime":481.183,"body":"there's a lot of movement and"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":478.473,"endTime":481.183,"body":"a lot of conversation and a"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":481.183,"endTime":486.463,"body":"lot of opinions and feelings"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":481.183,"endTime":486.463,"body":"about plastics and global"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":486.473,"endTime":489.783,"body":"treaties, national treaties,"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":486.473,"endTime":489.783,"body":"statewide regulations."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":490.083,"endTime":492.633,"body":"I want to hear your thoughts"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":490.083,"endTime":492.633,"body":"because I followed along on"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":492.633,"endTime":495.363,"body":"LinkedIn from each of the"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":492.633,"endTime":495.363,"body":"days that you posted recaps"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":495.363,"endTime":497.123,"body":"and your what was going on."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":497.423,"endTime":498.493,"body":"And so thank you for that."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":498.493,"endTime":501.173,"body":"Because I was, I felt like I"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":498.493,"endTime":501.173,"body":"was there with you and like,"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":501.758,"endTime":503.238,"body":"Feeling, feeling hopeful."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":503.238,"endTime":506.778,"body":"And then, less as we went"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":503.238,"endTime":506.778,"body":"on, but I'd love to hear,"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":506.858,"endTime":509.338,"body":"before you arrived, it sounded"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":506.858,"endTime":509.338,"body":"like you were hopeful and"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":509.368,"endTime":510.568,"body":"you had some expectations."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":510.568,"endTime":511.608,"body":"Even you posted about it."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":511.778,"endTime":513.588,"body":"Can you tell us a little bit"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":511.778,"endTime":513.588,"body":"about what you were hoping"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":513.588,"endTime":515.038,"body":"to see before you got there?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":515.833,"endTime":517.693,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":515.833,"endTime":517.693,"body":"so this was my second."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":517.763,"endTime":519.703,"body":"I was able to go to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":517.763,"endTime":519.703,"body":"Ottawa in April as well."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":519.703,"endTime":522.283,"body":"So this was my second one"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":519.703,"endTime":522.283,"body":"of these global plastics"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":522.293,"endTime":524.123,"body":"treaty negotiation meetings."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":524.573,"endTime":526.703,"body":"And I think there was a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":524.573,"endTime":526.703,"body":"lot of work that happened"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":526.723,"endTime":529.443,"body":"between the 4th and 5th."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":529.453,"endTime":532.023,"body":"They call it intersessional"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":529.453,"endTime":532.023,"body":"work where they meet with"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":532.023,"endTime":535.083,"body":"experts, they work on revising"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":532.023,"endTime":535.083,"body":"the text, and they try to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":535.093,"endTime":537.103,"body":"get it to a better place"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":535.093,"endTime":537.103,"body":"before they get to what."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":537.363,"endTime":539.663,"body":"What ultimately was supposed"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":537.363,"endTime":539.663,"body":"to be the last negotiating"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":539.663,"endTime":541.623,"body":"committee meeting, in Busan."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":542.223,"endTime":544.723,"body":"And there was a lot of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":542.223,"endTime":544.723,"body":"optimism leading up to it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":544.723,"endTime":546.983,"body":"because there'd been a lot"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":544.723,"endTime":546.983,"body":"of good intersessional work."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":547.243,"endTime":550.883,"body":"and maybe, to take a step"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":547.243,"endTime":550.883,"body":"back, like there's part of it,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":550.893,"endTime":553.153,"body":"like maybe all of us were a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":550.893,"endTime":553.153,"body":"little too optimistic, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":553.153,"endTime":557.423,"body":"So when you go back to the UN"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":553.153,"endTime":557.423,"body":"environment agency resolution"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":557.423,"endTime":561.328,"body":"that passed back in February"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":557.423,"endTime":561.328,"body":"of 2022, nations agreed to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":561.328,"endTime":563.658,"body":"negotiate a legally binding"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":561.328,"endTime":563.658,"body":"treaty to address plastic"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":563.658,"endTime":566.168,"body":"pollution, and there was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":563.658,"endTime":566.168,"body":"a ton of excitement, that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":566.168,"endTime":569.088,"body":"maybe we could finally do"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":566.168,"endTime":569.088,"body":"something momentous through"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":569.088,"endTime":573.298,"body":"the UN to really affect"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":569.088,"endTime":573.298,"body":"change, at the same time, that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":573.298,"endTime":575.768,"body":"resolution called for a really"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":573.298,"endTime":575.768,"body":"aggressive timeline, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":575.778,"endTime":578.278,"body":"Five negotiated"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":575.778,"endTime":578.278,"body":"meetings over 24 months."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":578.708,"endTime":580.678,"body":"And to have an agreed upon"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":578.708,"endTime":580.678,"body":"treaty by the end of this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":580.678,"endTime":583.548,"body":"year would have been, somewhat"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":580.678,"endTime":583.548,"body":"unprecedented for the whole"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":583.548,"endTime":585.678,"body":"of the United Nations to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":583.548,"endTime":585.678,"body":"do something that fast."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":586.008,"endTime":589.148,"body":"like most people that traveled"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":586.008,"endTime":589.148,"body":"to Busan, I was hoping that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":589.148,"endTime":591.128,"body":"when the gavel fell on the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":589.148,"endTime":591.128,"body":"last day, we'd have agreed"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":591.128,"endTime":594.088,"body":"upon text and we could move"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":591.128,"endTime":594.088,"body":"into the next steps, which are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":594.088,"endTime":596.908,"body":"a diplomatic conference where"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":594.088,"endTime":596.908,"body":"they iron out final details."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":597.388,"endTime":600.038,"body":"Followed by cops, cop"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":597.388,"endTime":600.038,"body":"meetings like we have for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":600.038,"endTime":601.328,"body":"climate and biodiversity."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":601.678,"endTime":604.558,"body":"and and in the end, it turns"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":601.678,"endTime":604.558,"body":"out, and I think we'll get into"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":604.558,"endTime":605.418,"body":"this a little bit more of it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":605.418,"endTime":608.218,"body":"It turns out some of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":605.418,"endTime":608.218,"body":"divergences and opinion"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":608.218,"endTime":611.198,"body":"between member states were"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":608.218,"endTime":611.198,"body":"just too big to overcome"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":611.288,"endTime":612.328,"body":"in a seven day meeting."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":612.861,"endTime":615.081,"body":"And if we think about it,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":612.861,"endTime":615.081,"body":"going back to your comments"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":615.081,"endTime":618.161,"body":"about recyclability,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":615.081,"endTime":618.161,"body":"Brodie, it's, a lot of it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":618.181,"endTime":619.101,"body":"stems from that, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":619.101,"endTime":621.701,"body":"Like, there are countries"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":619.101,"endTime":621.701,"body":"out there that think we can"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":621.701,"endTime":624.671,"body":"waste manage our way out of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":621.701,"endTime":624.671,"body":"the plastics pollution crisis."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":624.841,"endTime":626.041,"body":"We can increase take back."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":626.071,"endTime":627.641,"body":"We can increase recycling rates."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":628.236,"endTime":629.626,"body":"And we can fix this problem."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":629.836,"endTime":632.876,"body":"And then there are other"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":629.836,"endTime":632.876,"body":"countries that I would argue"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":632.876,"endTime":635.306,"body":"are more realistic and know"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":632.876,"endTime":635.306,"body":"that's not possible, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":635.306,"endTime":637.696,"body":"We also need to cut in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":635.306,"endTime":637.696,"body":"other ways and affect"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":637.956,"endTime":638.756,"body":"the issue in other ways."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":638.766,"endTime":642.296,"body":"So I think that's why I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":638.766,"endTime":642.296,"body":"often say that recycling is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":642.316,"endTime":647.336,"body":"the last hope because really"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":642.316,"endTime":647.336,"body":"recycling relies on not only"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":648.196,"endTime":651.686,"body":"good product design that leads"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":648.196,"endTime":651.686,"body":"to recyclability, but also"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":651.686,"endTime":654.506,"body":"good waste management and good"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":651.686,"endTime":654.506,"body":"separation and good sorting."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":654.871,"endTime":658.561,"body":"And most of the world doesn't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":654.871,"endTime":658.561,"body":"have those last things, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":658.561,"endTime":661.001,"body":"If you visit the global South,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":658.561,"endTime":661.001,"body":"most countries don't have good"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":661.001,"endTime":663.031,"body":"waste management practices."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":663.211,"endTime":665.631,"body":"And so therefore, it's much"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":663.211,"endTime":665.631,"body":"more difficult to really"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":665.681,"endTime":667.801,"body":"affect change that we need"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":665.681,"endTime":667.801,"body":"to see through recycling."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":667.801,"endTime":670.291,"body":"so yeah, I was optimistic"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":667.801,"endTime":670.291,"body":"leading up to it, based on"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":670.291,"endTime":673.431,"body":"the people I was talking"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":670.291,"endTime":673.431,"body":"to, and vibe going in,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":673.541,"endTime":676.271,"body":"and that was, diminished"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":673.541,"endTime":676.271,"body":"throughout the week in Busan."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":676.521,"endTime":677.591,"body":"Ugh, big sigh with that."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":677.591,"endTime":680.541,"body":"I think, also, you touched"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":677.591,"endTime":680.541,"body":"on a little, a point, too,"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":680.541,"endTime":683.041,"body":"that I thought was, I think"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":680.541,"endTime":683.041,"body":"is interesting, and I think"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":683.051,"endTime":685.571,"body":"that not that many people"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":683.051,"endTime":685.571,"body":"are talking about it."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":685.981,"endTime":689.346,"body":"When we talk about plastics"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":685.981,"endTime":689.346,"body":"and the plastic Crisis, right?"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":689.346,"endTime":690.346,"body":"The waste crisis."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":691.616,"endTime":694.556,"body":"The reason why people are"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":691.616,"endTime":694.556,"body":"focused on plastics are not only"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":694.556,"endTime":697.536,"body":"because of the recyclability"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":694.556,"endTime":697.536,"body":"and the end of life, but also"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":697.536,"endTime":703.296,"body":"the beginning of life and the,"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":697.536,"endTime":703.296,"body":"creation of plastics is its own"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":703.396,"endTime":708.866,"body":"polluter and has major effects"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":703.396,"endTime":708.866,"body":"on communities and health and"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":708.916,"endTime":713.266,"body":"our bio, Environment, the,"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":708.916,"endTime":713.266,"body":"like, the life, bio life and"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":713.276,"endTime":716.626,"body":"all the things around there,"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":713.276,"endTime":716.626,"body":"it has such, we're not just"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":716.626,"endTime":720.096,"body":"talking about, we are, but"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":716.626,"endTime":720.096,"body":"we're not just talking about"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":720.106,"endTime":721.006,"body":"the great pacific ocean."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":721.326,"endTime":724.646,"body":"Garbage patch and all of"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":721.326,"endTime":724.646,"body":"the other things, we're"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":724.646,"endTime":728.216,"body":"talking about a full life"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":724.646,"endTime":728.216,"body":"cycle that we're trying to"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":728.216,"endTime":730.016,"body":"address and make better."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":730.566,"endTime":730.876,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":730.936,"endTime":732.526,"body":"I don't, that's the goal."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":733.066,"endTime":735.906,"body":"So I'm encouraged to hear"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":733.066,"endTime":735.906,"body":"that was something that"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":735.906,"endTime":739.456,"body":"was talked about and maybe"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":735.906,"endTime":739.456,"body":"more than we were hoping."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":739.496,"endTime":739.786,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":740.036,"endTime":741.206,"body":"yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":740.036,"endTime":741.206,"body":"it's really interesting,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":741.206,"endTime":743.786,"body":"actually, like the, there"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":741.206,"endTime":743.786,"body":"are, there's a number of."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":744.066,"endTime":745.106,"body":"Of member states in the U."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":745.106,"endTime":745.276,"body":"N."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":745.276,"endTime":746.956,"body":"that want to address"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":745.276,"endTime":746.956,"body":"only end of life."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":747.826,"endTime":752.006,"body":"but if we really think about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":747.826,"endTime":752.006,"body":"the plastics problem, there's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":752.006,"endTime":754.476,"body":"a couple other things that,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":752.006,"endTime":754.476,"body":"like, stick in my mind a lot."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":754.486,"endTime":760.076,"body":"First of all, we have not had"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":754.486,"endTime":760.076,"body":"a full generation of humans."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":760.751,"endTime":764.101,"body":"Live with the just vast"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":760.751,"endTime":764.101,"body":"amount of plastic that's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":764.101,"endTime":765.181,"body":"around us now, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":765.181,"endTime":769.111,"body":"Like people who are in their"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":765.181,"endTime":769.111,"body":"70s 80s 90s They grew up in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":769.111,"endTime":771.481,"body":"an era where there wasn't very"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":769.111,"endTime":771.481,"body":"much plastic in their everyday"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":771.481,"endTime":775.911,"body":"lives And so we haven't really"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":771.481,"endTime":775.911,"body":"we haven't really yet seen the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":775.911,"endTime":780.901,"body":"full ramifications of living an"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":775.911,"endTime":780.901,"body":"entire human life 100 years with"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":781.001,"endTime":785.361,"body":"plastics In it every day, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":781.001,"endTime":785.361,"body":"we also know that, the people"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":785.361,"endTime":789.041,"body":"that live close to, upstream"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":785.361,"endTime":789.041,"body":"manufacturing of chemicals and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":789.041,"endTime":792.011,"body":"polymers are exposed to higher"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":789.041,"endTime":792.011,"body":"levels of certain chemicals."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":792.011,"endTime":795.121,"body":"We know that people living"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":792.011,"endTime":795.121,"body":"near, waste recovery"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":795.121,"endTime":797.421,"body":"facilities and things like"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":795.121,"endTime":797.421,"body":"that are also exposed to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":797.421,"endTime":798.521,"body":"different chemical levels."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":798.721,"endTime":801.501,"body":"it really is important to think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":798.721,"endTime":801.501,"body":"about this whole life cycle."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":801.751,"endTime":805.241,"body":"All the way from extraction"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":801.751,"endTime":805.241,"body":"of, the fossil fuel or even"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":805.241,"endTime":806.891,"body":"the biomaterial that you're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":805.241,"endTime":806.891,"body":"going to use to make the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":806.891,"endTime":808.581,"body":"plastic till the end of life."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":808.581,"endTime":811.211,"body":"And I think that's, there's a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":808.581,"endTime":811.211,"body":"bunch of countries in the UN"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":811.211,"endTime":813.091,"body":"that are really fighting for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":811.211,"endTime":813.091,"body":"that to be part of the treaty."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":813.341,"endTime":813.881,"body":"Whether they win,"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":814.131,"endTime":816.391,"body":"it's, it's been"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":814.131,"endTime":816.391,"body":"like Brody was saying, it's a"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":816.391,"endTime":819.981,"body":"want, want a feeling for a lot"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":816.391,"endTime":819.981,"body":"of us sitting back here in the"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":819.981,"endTime":824.071,"body":"U S or not around the world,"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":819.981,"endTime":824.071,"body":"frankly, waiting for the results"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":824.071,"endTime":828.891,"body":"of this event and the next,"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":824.071,"endTime":828.891,"body":"because the first five were not"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":828.971,"endTime":831.841,"body":"totally successful, they've,"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":828.971,"endTime":831.841,"body":"Planned another one a 5."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":831.841,"endTime":835.311,"body":"2, which I think is"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":831.841,"endTime":835.311,"body":"hilarious like, because 5."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":835.311,"endTime":837.501,"body":"2 isn't more than 5."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":837.501,"endTime":841.171,"body":"It's and it's not 6, but"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":837.501,"endTime":841.171,"body":"it's barely more than 5."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":841.171,"endTime":841.551,"body":"I should say."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":841.861,"endTime":842.801,"body":"But when is that?"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":842.871,"endTime":844.221,"body":"When is that event going to be?"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":844.221,"endTime":845.501,"body":"Where is it going to be?"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":845.551,"endTime":850.561,"body":"and What do you think it's"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":845.551,"endTime":850.561,"body":"gonna take to get a real result?"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":850.961,"endTime":854.011,"body":"there are member states"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":850.961,"endTime":854.011,"body":"that are basically laughing"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":854.011,"endTime":857.271,"body":"in closed door meetings at"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":854.011,"endTime":857.271,"body":"this process saying, you're"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":857.271,"endTime":858.801,"body":"never gonna get us to move."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":858.811,"endTime":860.281,"body":"We're not gonna do anything."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":860.661,"endTime":863.961,"body":"And I think it's, what kind"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":860.661,"endTime":863.961,"body":"of characteristics do we"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":863.961,"endTime":866.231,"body":"need to pull out to make"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":863.961,"endTime":866.231,"body":"this thing successful?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":867.231,"endTime":871.431,"body":"Yeah, well,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":867.231,"endTime":871.431,"body":"let's maybe I don't know when"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":871.441,"endTime":872.411,"body":"or where it's going to be."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":872.451,"endTime":875.291,"body":"I think, the best money is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":872.451,"endTime":875.291,"body":"probably that it would be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":875.291,"endTime":876.691,"body":"in Nairobi, where the U."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":876.691,"endTime":876.811,"body":"N."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":876.811,"endTime":878.571,"body":"Environment program is based."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":878.881,"endTime":882.111,"body":"and likely in the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":878.881,"endTime":882.111,"body":"first half of 2025."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":882.661,"endTime":886.191,"body":"Hopefully not April 29th to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":882.661,"endTime":886.191,"body":"May 1st when I'm hoping my when"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":886.191,"endTime":889.551,"body":"I'm hoping my conference in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":886.191,"endTime":889.551,"body":"Denver, that's yet to be seen."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":889.681,"endTime":891.831,"body":"they'll work on scheduling"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":889.681,"endTime":891.831,"body":"and where it's going to be."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":891.996,"endTime":893.106,"body":"over the next month or so."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":893.106,"endTime":895.286,"body":"I'm guessing we'll"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":893.106,"endTime":895.286,"body":"learn more about that."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":895.686,"endTime":899.136,"body":"but really, we've got it's an"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":895.686,"endTime":899.136,"body":"interesting process, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":899.136,"endTime":902.526,"body":"Because you've got 180 plus"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":899.136,"endTime":902.526,"body":"companies or countries."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":902.526,"endTime":904.096,"body":"Sorry at the negotiating table."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":904.876,"endTime":907.696,"body":"and on one side, you've got this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":904.876,"endTime":907.696,"body":"group that refers to themselves"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":907.696,"endTime":909.176,"body":"as the like minded countries."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":909.196,"endTime":910.556,"body":"And this is the Petro States."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":910.736,"endTime":914.496,"body":"you think of Saudi Arabia, Iran,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":910.736,"endTime":914.496,"body":"Iraq, the Russian Federation,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":914.906,"endTime":915.806,"body":"and the list goes on."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":915.806,"endTime":918.166,"body":"It's, it's somewhere on in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":915.806,"endTime":918.166,"body":"the area of 20 countries."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":918.166,"endTime":919.326,"body":"They're part of this group."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":919.716,"endTime":922.406,"body":"and those nations have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":919.716,"endTime":922.406,"body":"financially benefited from what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":922.406,"endTime":925.156,"body":"they would call the exploitation"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":922.406,"endTime":925.156,"body":"of their natural resources"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":925.156,"endTime":926.256,"body":"for a really long time, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":926.256,"endTime":927.046,"body":"Namely, oil."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":927.446,"endTime":929.316,"body":"and as they think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":927.446,"endTime":929.316,"body":"about the future."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":929.431,"endTime":932.461,"body":"They're thinking of plastic"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":929.431,"endTime":932.461,"body":"production as a hedge against,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":932.511,"endTime":935.151,"body":"the eventual decrease in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":932.511,"endTime":935.151,"body":"global demand for oil."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":935.501,"endTime":938.721,"body":"those countries do not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":935.501,"endTime":938.721,"body":"want to see production cuts"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":939.031,"endTime":942.571,"body":"or a phase out of certain"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":939.031,"endTime":942.571,"body":"chemicals and polymers in a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":942.571,"endTime":946.191,"body":"final treaty because that's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":942.571,"endTime":946.191,"body":"their sort of lifeline, their"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":946.201,"endTime":948.641,"body":"economic lifeline moving"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":946.201,"endTime":948.641,"body":"forward as they see it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":949.051,"endTime":951.061,"body":"To continue to extract"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":949.051,"endTime":951.061,"body":"oil and continue to make"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":951.061,"endTime":951.941,"body":"new plastics out of it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":952.221,"endTime":954.661,"body":"so they're fighting for,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":952.221,"endTime":954.661,"body":"only waste management."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":955.011,"endTime":957.801,"body":"waste management and maybe"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":955.011,"endTime":957.801,"body":"a little bit of product"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":957.801,"endTime":961.141,"body":"design to make those products"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":957.801,"endTime":961.141,"body":"more recyclable is what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":961.141,"endTime":962.381,"body":"they want the treaty to be."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":962.611,"endTime":965.041,"body":"and they also want nationally"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":962.611,"endTime":965.041,"body":"determined contributions."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":965.081,"endTime":969.001,"body":"instead of a, A broad global,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":965.081,"endTime":969.001,"body":"umbrella to say everyone needs"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":969.001,"endTime":970.201,"body":"to meet these requirements."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":970.411,"endTime":972.201,"body":"Each country would be able"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":970.411,"endTime":972.201,"body":"to come forward with its"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":972.201,"endTime":973.621,"body":"own contribution to this."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":973.631,"endTime":976.391,"body":"This issue, is similar to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":973.631,"endTime":976.391,"body":"how the Paris agreement"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":976.391,"endTime":977.271,"body":"is set up for climate."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":977.281,"endTime":978.311,"body":"there's some challenges there."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":978.311,"endTime":979.891,"body":"That's the like"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":978.311,"endTime":979.891,"body":"minded countries."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":980.291,"endTime":982.351,"body":"on sort of one side of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":980.291,"endTime":982.351,"body":"this argument on the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":982.351,"endTime":983.081,"body":"other side of the country."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":983.431,"endTime":984.871,"body":"On the other side of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":983.431,"endTime":984.871,"body":"argument, you've got about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":984.871,"endTime":988.871,"body":"100 countries, maybe more that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":984.871,"endTime":988.871,"body":"support a high ambition treaty."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":988.871,"endTime":993.511,"body":"So they support reduction"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":988.871,"endTime":993.511,"body":"in primary plastic creation."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":993.741,"endTime":996.871,"body":"They support phase out of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":993.741,"endTime":996.871,"body":"certain sort of worst actors,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":996.901,"endTime":998.401,"body":"chemicals and polymers."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":998.771,"endTime":1001.411,"body":"they support, strong financial"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":998.771,"endTime":1001.411,"body":"mechanisms to make sure"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1001.421,"endTime":1004.181,"body":"everybody can do this work"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1001.421,"endTime":1004.181,"body":"regardless of their country's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1004.181,"endTime":1005.971,"body":"financial, situation."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1006.291,"endTime":1010.481,"body":"and they, so really it's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1006.291,"endTime":1010.481,"body":"interesting that these two ends."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1010.906,"endTime":1012.706,"body":"Are arguing over scope."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1013.106,"endTime":1015.936,"body":"One of them is saying the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1013.106,"endTime":1015.936,"body":"scope should end when somebody"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1015.936,"endTime":1017.366,"body":"throws a product away."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1017.766,"endTime":1020.476,"body":"And the other one is saying"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1017.766,"endTime":1020.476,"body":"the scope are they're saying"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1020.476,"endTime":1022.656,"body":"the scope should start with"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1020.476,"endTime":1022.656,"body":"somebody throws a product away."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1022.836,"endTime":1025.076,"body":"And the other people are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1022.836,"endTime":1025.076,"body":"saying it shouldn't it should"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1025.076,"endTime":1028.206,"body":"start an extraction of a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1025.076,"endTime":1028.206,"body":"fossil fuel or a biomaterial."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1028.796,"endTime":1032.796,"body":"And that's a pretty big"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1028.796,"endTime":1032.796,"body":"chasm to cross when you're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1032.796,"endTime":1035.006,"body":"talking about that big"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1032.796,"endTime":1035.006,"body":"of a difference in scope."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1035.006,"endTime":1037.006,"body":"And I think ultimately,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1035.006,"endTime":1037.006,"body":"that's where you're at."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1037.286,"endTime":1042.146,"body":"This treaty hung up is both"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1037.286,"endTime":1042.146,"body":"of these sides have drawn red"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1042.146,"endTime":1043.826,"body":"lines where they won't move."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1044.156,"endTime":1045.946,"body":"and we'll see if an I."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1045.946,"endTime":1046.096,"body":"N."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1046.096,"endTime":1046.286,"body":"C."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1046.296,"endTime":1047.406,"body":"5."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1047.406,"endTime":1048.686,"body":"2 can change that at all."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1048.996,"endTime":1052.316,"body":"one of the additional challenges"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1048.996,"endTime":1052.316,"body":"with this whole conversation"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1052.646,"endTime":1053.826,"body":"is that notably the U."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1053.826,"endTime":1054.206,"body":"S."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1054.521,"endTime":1059.231,"body":"China and Brazil, three of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1054.521,"endTime":1059.231,"body":"top 10 and the top two largest"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1059.231,"endTime":1061.941,"body":"economies in the world have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1059.231,"endTime":1061.941,"body":"been in the middle, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1061.941,"endTime":1062.271,"body":"Neither."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1062.761,"endTime":1063.241,"body":"They're not."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1063.251,"endTime":1064.701,"body":"They're not in the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1063.251,"endTime":1064.701,"body":"like minded states."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1064.701,"endTime":1066.181,"body":"They're not in the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1064.701,"endTime":1066.181,"body":"high ambition states."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1066.181,"endTime":1069.661,"body":"They're trying to operate in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1066.181,"endTime":1069.661,"body":"a space in between, and it's."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1069.906,"endTime":1074.356,"body":"It's hard to imagine the globe"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1069.906,"endTime":1074.356,"body":"moving forward with a really"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1074.356,"endTime":1077.626,"body":"robust treaty without three"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1074.356,"endTime":1077.626,"body":"of the top largest economies."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1077.896,"endTime":1081.946,"body":"and also, three pretty large"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1077.896,"endTime":1081.946,"body":"users of, creators of plastic,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1081.976,"endTime":1084.766,"body":"and in some cases, fossil"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1081.976,"endTime":1084.766,"body":"fuel extraction, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1084.766,"endTime":1085.006,"body":"The U."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1085.006,"endTime":1085.156,"body":"S."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1085.156,"endTime":1087.776,"body":"is the biggest oil producer"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1085.156,"endTime":1087.776,"body":"in the world right now."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1088.136,"endTime":1090.376,"body":"so it's a little bit"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1088.136,"endTime":1090.376,"body":"weird, and we'll also see"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1090.376,"endTime":1091.721,"body":"what happens, At INC 5."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1091.721,"endTime":1095.681,"body":"2 with likely a new group"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1091.721,"endTime":1095.681,"body":"of negotiators from a new"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1095.681,"endTime":1099.331,"body":"US administration that might"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1095.681,"endTime":1099.331,"body":"have a significantly different"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1100.061,"endTime":1102.591,"body":"stance on some of this stuff"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1100.061,"endTime":1102.591,"body":"than the previous group did."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1102.881,"endTime":1105.101,"body":"I guess that's a lot that's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1102.881,"endTime":1105.101,"body":"a long way of saying like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1105.181,"endTime":1106.511,"body":"there's a big divide to cross."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1106.796,"endTime":1108.866,"body":"And there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1106.796,"endTime":1108.866,"body":"unanswered questions"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1108.866,"endTime":1110.296,"body":"leading up to this INC 5."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1110.296,"endTime":1112.346,"body":"2."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1112.446,"endTime":1114.796,"body":"interesting that you bring"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1112.446,"endTime":1114.796,"body":"up the distinction, Corey,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1114.836,"endTime":1117.436,"body":"because it's actually a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1114.836,"endTime":1117.436,"body":"good thing that they decided"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1117.436,"endTime":1118.106,"body":"to make this an INC 5."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1118.106,"endTime":1119.196,"body":"2."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1119.566,"endTime":1122.126,"body":"Cause basically what that means"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1119.566,"endTime":1122.126,"body":"is that they can pick up where"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1122.126,"endTime":1125.546,"body":"they left off in Busan, as"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1122.126,"endTime":1125.546,"body":"opposed to if we were to move"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1125.546,"endTime":1127.926,"body":"forward with a new INC, 6."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1129.021,"endTime":1131.551,"body":"There would have to be meetings"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1129.021,"endTime":1131.551,"body":"at the beginning to settle on"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1131.691,"endTime":1134.171,"body":"what the starting text is, what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1131.691,"endTime":1134.171,"body":"the procedure is going to be,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1134.171,"endTime":1135.301,"body":"what the working groups are."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1135.491,"endTime":1138.211,"body":"Now they can save that day's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1135.491,"endTime":1138.211,"body":"worth of work at the beginning"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1138.241,"endTime":1139.481,"body":"and just get to work faster."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1140.106,"endTime":1141.416,"body":"At least that's the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1140.106,"endTime":1141.416,"body":"hope, but the 5."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1141.416,"endTime":1144.036,"body":"2 actually helps us in that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1141.416,"endTime":1144.036,"body":"way and that it's not a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1144.046,"endTime":1147.956,"body":"start from scratch, like it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1144.046,"endTime":1147.956,"body":"could be with an INC six."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1148.366,"endTime":1148.706,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1149.736,"endTime":1150.476,"body":"that's brilliant."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1150.676,"endTime":1153.796,"body":"That's a good move to cut"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1150.676,"endTime":1153.796,"body":"some of that red tape."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1153.796,"endTime":1157.496,"body":"I know, Andrew Stevens says,"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1153.796,"endTime":1157.496,"body":"was there with you and,"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1157.496,"endTime":1162.166,"body":"the team from WWF and, it's"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1157.496,"endTime":1162.166,"body":"exciting to see what's possible."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1162.896,"endTime":1164.886,"body":"And, I, we won't give up."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1165.086,"endTime":1166.666,"body":"We won't give up"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1165.086,"endTime":1166.666,"body":"on this process."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1166.666,"endTime":1171.416,"body":"we must continue to fight"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1166.666,"endTime":1171.416,"body":"forward and move this to a"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1172.236,"endTime":1175.966,"body":"reasonable execution where"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1172.236,"endTime":1175.966,"body":"it's actually something that's"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1175.966,"endTime":1180.716,"body":"going to make an impact on"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1175.966,"endTime":1180.716,"body":"our planet in a positive way."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1181.126,"endTime":1182.366,"body":"I'm crossing my fingers."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1182.616,"endTime":1184.106,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1182.616,"endTime":1184.106,"body":"think to touch on that, that"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1184.106,"endTime":1185.636,"body":"we can't give up, right?"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1185.766,"endTime":1188.646,"body":"While we're waiting for things"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1185.766,"endTime":1188.646,"body":"to be scheduled or waiting"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1188.646,"endTime":1191.486,"body":"for a treaty to potentially"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1188.646,"endTime":1191.486,"body":"be signed and ratified, what"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1191.486,"endTime":1193.536,"body":"can we do in the meantime?"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1193.856,"endTime":1198.956,"body":"I think it would be a waste,"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1193.856,"endTime":1198.956,"body":"no pun intended, to be"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1198.956,"endTime":1201.946,"body":"sitting and waiting for that"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1198.956,"endTime":1201.946,"body":"to happen without making any"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1202.016,"endTime":1206.226,"body":"moves or actions on our end,"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1202.016,"endTime":1206.226,"body":"as companies, as brands, as"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1206.226,"endTime":1210.556,"body":"packaging manufacturers, as"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1206.226,"endTime":1210.556,"body":"packaging designers, even, in"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1210.556,"endTime":1214.446,"body":"your opinion, as a circular"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1210.556,"endTime":1214.446,"body":"economy enthusiast, what do"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1214.446,"endTime":1217.136,"body":"you think that we could be"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1214.446,"endTime":1217.136,"body":"doing while we're waiting for"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1217.136,"endTime":1220.476,"body":"something hopefully to come"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1217.136,"endTime":1220.476,"body":"to fruition from all of this?"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1220.831,"endTime":1223.331,"body":"What can we do in order"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1220.831,"endTime":1223.331,"body":"to help with that waste?"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1223.331,"endTime":1223.721,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1223.771,"endTime":1225.721,"body":"I've  got"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1223.771,"endTime":1225.721,"body":"three recommendations, I think."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1225.821,"endTime":1227.881,"body":"one of them, one of them is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1225.821,"endTime":1227.881,"body":"a little more difficult, but"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1227.881,"endTime":1230.151,"body":"let's start with the two that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1227.881,"endTime":1230.151,"body":"I think are most important,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1230.411,"endTime":1231.491,"body":"and maybe easiest, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1231.491,"endTime":1235.441,"body":"So one, companies can consider"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1231.491,"endTime":1235.441,"body":"joining the business coalition"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1235.441,"endTime":1236.681,"body":"for a global plastics treaty."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1236.681,"endTime":1239.411,"body":"So the business coalition"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1236.681,"endTime":1239.411,"body":"is convened by Ellen"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1239.411,"endTime":1241.651,"body":"MacArthur foundation"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1239.411,"endTime":1241.651,"body":"and worldwide life fund."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1242.141,"endTime":1244.811,"body":"and it brings together a global"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1242.141,"endTime":1244.811,"body":"group of businesses across the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1244.811,"endTime":1245.981,"body":"plastics value chain, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1245.981,"endTime":1248.441,"body":"So you've got, you've"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1245.981,"endTime":1248.441,"body":"got chemical producers,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1248.471,"endTime":1251.901,"body":"polymer producers, brands,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1248.471,"endTime":1251.901,"body":"retailers, all part of this."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1252.031,"endTime":1254.651,"body":"You've also got financial"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1252.031,"endTime":1254.651,"body":"institutions and other"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1254.651,"endTime":1257.901,"body":"environmental NGOs, that are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1254.651,"endTime":1257.901,"body":"committed to supporting the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1257.901,"endTime":1260.331,"body":"development of an ambitious"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1257.901,"endTime":1260.331,"body":"and effective treaty."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1260.611,"endTime":1264.501,"body":"that organization has about, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1260.611,"endTime":1264.501,"body":"think, over 275 organizations"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1264.501,"endTime":1265.601,"body":"now that have joined it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1265.946,"endTime":1267.886,"body":"and they're always"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1265.946,"endTime":1267.886,"body":"seeking new members."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1267.886,"endTime":1270.146,"body":"So if your company is not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1267.886,"endTime":1270.146,"body":"a member of the business"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1270.146,"endTime":1275.166,"body":"coalition, but you support a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1270.146,"endTime":1275.166,"body":"strong plastics treaty, that's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1275.166,"endTime":1276.056,"body":"one way to get involved."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1276.076,"endTime":1277.896,"body":"They have, they put"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1276.076,"endTime":1277.896,"body":"out news releases."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1277.896,"endTime":1280.596,"body":"They have meetings, that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1277.896,"endTime":1280.596,"body":"happened during the INCs."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1280.646,"endTime":1283.636,"body":"I believe they also have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1280.646,"endTime":1283.636,"body":"meetings between INCs to figure"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1283.636,"endTime":1286.386,"body":"out strategy for the group,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1283.636,"endTime":1286.386,"body":"at the next meeting coming up."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1286.386,"endTime":1287.871,"body":"And I'm guessing that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1286.386,"endTime":1287.871,"body":"and I think that this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1287.881,"endTime":1290.651,"body":"group will continue, in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1287.881,"endTime":1290.651,"body":"perpetuity as we start the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1290.651,"endTime":1293.171,"body":"COP discussions eventually"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1290.651,"endTime":1293.171,"body":"around a plastics treaty."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1293.591,"endTime":1297.831,"body":"I would say second, and this is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1293.591,"endTime":1297.831,"body":"a little bit of a data plug, but"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1297.831,"endTime":1298.841,"body":"I think it's important, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1298.841,"endTime":1301.181,"body":"Like, companies should know"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1298.841,"endTime":1301.181,"body":"their plastics footprint."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1301.651,"endTime":1304.641,"body":"They should know how much"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1301.651,"endTime":1304.641,"body":"plastic they're using."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1304.861,"endTime":1308.451,"body":"Where that plastic is going,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1304.861,"endTime":1308.451,"body":"hopefully be able to get some"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1308.451,"endTime":1311.141,"body":"information about the ultimate"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1308.451,"endTime":1311.141,"body":"fate of that plastic, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1311.141,"endTime":1313.661,"body":"Is it ended up in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1311.141,"endTime":1313.661,"body":"landfills, recycled in the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1313.661,"endTime":1314.831,"body":"environment, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1315.211,"endTime":1318.071,"body":"because I think the more every"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1315.211,"endTime":1318.071,"body":"company knows about what they're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1318.071,"endTime":1321.081,"body":"putting out into the world,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1318.071,"endTime":1321.081,"body":"the better set up they will"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1321.081,"endTime":1324.601,"body":"be for the eventual plastics"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1321.081,"endTime":1324.601,"body":"treaty that we're going to have."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1324.816,"endTime":1326.856,"body":"But also the regulations"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1324.816,"endTime":1326.856,"body":"that are already coming"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1326.856,"endTime":1327.486,"body":"into place, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1327.486,"endTime":1328.536,"body":"We have five states in the U."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1328.536,"endTime":1328.766,"body":"S."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1328.776,"endTime":1331.446,"body":"that are implementing EPR"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1328.776,"endTime":1331.446,"body":"companies are going to need"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1331.446,"endTime":1334.176,"body":"to know their, what they're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1331.446,"endTime":1334.176,"body":"selling into those states, to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1334.186,"endTime":1335.766,"body":"be able to participate in those."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1335.936,"endTime":1337.896,"body":"We've also got"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1335.936,"endTime":1337.896,"body":"global EPR schemes."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1338.066,"endTime":1340.636,"body":"so I think just like getting"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1338.066,"endTime":1340.636,"body":"a better handle on the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1340.646,"endTime":1343.136,"body":"data, what plastic are you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1340.646,"endTime":1343.136,"body":"already putting out there?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1343.441,"endTime":1345.061,"body":"and what is its"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1343.441,"endTime":1345.061,"body":"fate is important."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1345.391,"endTime":1347.751,"body":"And then the third, and this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1345.391,"endTime":1347.751,"body":"is, maybe a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1347.751,"endTime":1350.051,"body":"controversial, but it's one"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1347.751,"endTime":1350.051,"body":"thing that you see when you're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1350.061,"endTime":1351.591,"body":"on the ground at these meetings."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1351.811,"endTime":1354.311,"body":"and also I'll just"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1351.811,"endTime":1354.311,"body":"admit back when I was in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1354.311,"endTime":1355.751,"body":"corporate sustainability is."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1356.196,"endTime":1361.256,"body":"Know what your industry groups"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1356.196,"endTime":1361.256,"body":"are advocating for, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1361.286,"endTime":1364.216,"body":"A lot of industry groups"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1361.286,"endTime":1364.216,"body":"will advocate and lobby"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1364.216,"endTime":1368.326,"body":"for no treaty, a very"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1364.216,"endTime":1368.326,"body":"low ambition treaty."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1368.626,"endTime":1373.256,"body":"they basically are advocating"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1368.626,"endTime":1373.256,"body":"for a lot of things that are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1373.256,"endTime":1376.056,"body":"in direct contradiction to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1373.256,"endTime":1376.056,"body":"what their member companies"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1376.056,"endTime":1379.066,"body":"might be advocating for in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1376.056,"endTime":1379.066,"body":"the same exact policy space."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1379.486,"endTime":1381.816,"body":"You might not be able to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1379.486,"endTime":1381.816,"body":"ultimately change what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1381.816,"endTime":1383.916,"body":"your industry groups are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1381.816,"endTime":1383.916,"body":"lobbying for, but it's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1383.916,"endTime":1386.976,"body":"worth knowing and it's worth"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1383.916,"endTime":1386.976,"body":"telling them your position."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1387.196,"endTime":1389.776,"body":"whatever industry group"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1387.196,"endTime":1389.776,"body":"you might be involved in,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1389.816,"endTime":1392.046,"body":"as a company, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1389.816,"endTime":1392.046,"body":"worth looking into their"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1392.046,"endTime":1393.176,"body":"positions on these things."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1393.426,"endTime":1395.426,"body":"and, I used to have this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1393.426,"endTime":1395.426,"body":"conversation when I was in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1395.446,"endTime":1398.246,"body":"corporate sustainability about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1395.446,"endTime":1398.246,"body":"like, why are we even a member"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1398.246,"endTime":1400.056,"body":"of, X, Y, and Z industry group."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1400.056,"endTime":1403.206,"body":"They seem to be advocating for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1400.056,"endTime":1403.206,"body":"things we're not in favor of."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1403.236,"endTime":1405.286,"body":"And the answer I always got"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1403.236,"endTime":1405.286,"body":"was, well, we have to be."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1405.781,"endTime":1408.001,"body":"Everybody in our industry is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1405.781,"endTime":1408.001,"body":"a member of that organization."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1408.361,"endTime":1411.881,"body":"And so I think there's a place"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1408.361,"endTime":1411.881,"body":"for, there's a place for having"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1411.881,"endTime":1414.801,"body":"some dissension, within these"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1411.881,"endTime":1414.801,"body":"trade organizations to try to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1414.801,"endTime":1417.521,"body":"keep them from advocating for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1414.801,"endTime":1417.521,"body":"the lowest common denominator."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1417.771,"endTime":1421.381,"body":"That's, that, that's a little"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1417.771,"endTime":1421.381,"body":"bit more difficult than some"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1421.381,"endTime":1422.321,"body":"of the other ones, I think."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1422.571,"endTime":1423.751,"body":"Maybe,"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1422.571,"endTime":1423.751,"body":"but it doesn't make it"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1423.751,"endTime":1425.541,"body":"any less important, right?"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1426.041,"endTime":1429.071,"body":"I think sometimes the harder"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1426.041,"endTime":1429.071,"body":"ones and the big obstacles,"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1429.321,"endTime":1431.171,"body":"they're hard for a reason that."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1431.441,"endTime":1435.061,"body":"they're, we're in a waste"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1431.441,"endTime":1435.061,"body":"crisis for a reason and we're"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1435.061,"endTime":1437.321,"body":"not going to solve anything"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1435.061,"endTime":1437.321,"body":"if we're not willing to have"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1437.321,"endTime":1440.991,"body":"the hard conversations or"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1437.321,"endTime":1440.991,"body":"raise our hand, even if the"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1440.991,"endTime":1443.561,"body":"answer is, well, this is the"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1440.991,"endTime":1443.561,"body":"way things have always done."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1443.711,"endTime":1445.811,"body":"Okay, I think it's really"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1443.711,"endTime":1445.811,"body":"valuable to make someone"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1445.811,"endTime":1446.541,"body":"say that out loud."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1446.891,"endTime":1449.476,"body":"I think they hear"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1446.891,"endTime":1449.476,"body":"it and they know."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1450.146,"endTime":1452.746,"body":"And it starts a conversation,"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1450.146,"endTime":1452.746,"body":"even if take some courage,"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1452.776,"endTime":1454.716,"body":"but I think it's really"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1452.776,"endTime":1454.716,"body":"important, even if it's hard,"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1454.966,"endTime":1457.016,"body":"that's brilliant"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1454.966,"endTime":1457.016,"body":"to, to be a part of the"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1457.016,"endTime":1460.526,"body":"groups that are advocating"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1457.016,"endTime":1460.526,"body":"for something that you're"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1460.526,"endTime":1464.456,"body":"not necessarily in favor"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1460.526,"endTime":1464.456,"body":"of, but to be the voice of"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1464.456,"endTime":1469.106,"body":"reason, or, maybe pull back"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1464.456,"endTime":1469.106,"body":"a little bit and say, Hey."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1470.196,"endTime":1473.526,"body":"I don't agree with that, like,"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1470.196,"endTime":1473.526,"body":"I think that's important to"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1473.526,"endTime":1474.916,"body":"be that person in the room."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1474.936,"endTime":1479.676,"body":"Sometimes, Adam and I have"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1474.936,"endTime":1479.676,"body":"our Monday morning podcast,"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1479.686,"endTime":1482.966,"body":"about, and oftentimes we'll"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1479.686,"endTime":1482.966,"body":"disagree on something."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1483.521,"endTime":1486.951,"body":"And sometimes those are the"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1483.521,"endTime":1486.951,"body":"best episodes where, just"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1486.971,"endTime":1488.521,"body":"3 people from the industry."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1488.571,"endTime":1490.411,"body":"we're not in business together."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1490.421,"endTime":1492.981,"body":"we're all, we have very"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1490.421,"endTime":1492.981,"body":"different jobs and careers."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1493.381,"endTime":1496.941,"body":"But when 1 of us doesn't"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1493.381,"endTime":1496.941,"body":"like something, or 2 of"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1496.941,"endTime":1499.721,"body":"us don't like something,"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1496.941,"endTime":1499.721,"body":"it can be very interesting"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1499.721,"endTime":1500.366,"body":"to hear what you think."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1500.466,"endTime":1500.996,"body":"Why?"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1501.496,"endTime":1504.746,"body":"And to hear the, well, from"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1501.496,"endTime":1504.746,"body":"my point of view, this is what"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1504.746,"endTime":1507.066,"body":"I think, and I think you're"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1504.746,"endTime":1507.066,"body":"exactly right, and that's"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1507.066,"endTime":1512.136,"body":"why these, maybe the lack"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1507.066,"endTime":1512.136,"body":"of a, cohesion, can cause,"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1512.456,"endTime":1516.506,"body":"Even further, movement in the"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1512.456,"endTime":1516.506,"body":"right direction, sometimes."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1516.506,"endTime":1516.596,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1516.596,"endTime":1517.396,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1518.176,"endTime":1518.386,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1518.386,"endTime":1520.496,"body":"It's interesting"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1518.386,"endTime":1520.496,"body":"you bring up the sort of,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1520.596,"endTime":1523.621,"body":"we, when we're building"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1520.596,"endTime":1523.621,"body":"content for our conferences,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1523.621,"endTime":1525.761,"body":"we always refer to it as"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1523.621,"endTime":1525.761,"body":"productive tension, right?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1525.811,"endTime":1528.431,"body":"can we bring some competing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1525.811,"endTime":1528.431,"body":"voices into panels that,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1528.471,"endTime":1530.631,"body":"can disagree with each other"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1528.471,"endTime":1530.631,"body":"respectfully and actually have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1530.631,"endTime":1531.841,"body":"a meaningful conversation?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1532.191,"endTime":1533.891,"body":"and I think those are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1532.191,"endTime":1533.891,"body":"often the most fruitful."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1535.181,"endTime":1536.351,"body":"They're sometimes"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1535.181,"endTime":1536.351,"body":"hard to come by."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1536.601,"endTime":1538.591,"body":"Well, Brody"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1536.601,"endTime":1538.591,"body":"and I are happy to speak"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1538.591,"endTime":1541.041,"body":"at any event and we'll have"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1538.591,"endTime":1541.041,"body":"the opposite opinion of"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1541.041,"endTime":1543.591,"body":"each other for your panels."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1543.611,"endTime":1545.421,"body":"Yeah, we can debate both sides."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1545.421,"endTime":1545.671,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1546.531,"endTime":1546.741,"body":"Corey."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1546.741,"endTime":1548.411,"body":"I'm trying to think of"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1546.741,"endTime":1548.411,"body":"anything that you and I"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1548.751,"endTime":1550.051,"body":"really disagree about."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1550.621,"endTime":1553.531,"body":"And I think it might be Taylor"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1550.621,"endTime":1553.531,"body":"Swift might be the only thing."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1553.701,"endTime":1554.851,"body":"John, we're happy to debate."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1554.851,"endTime":1555.681,"body":"Don't tell my wife."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1555.681,"endTime":1557.491,"body":"Corey,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1555.681,"endTime":1557.491,"body":"are you anti Taylor Swift?"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1557.671,"endTime":1559.831,"body":"No,"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1557.671,"endTime":1559.831,"body":"I'm a huge fan, but I"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1559.841,"endTime":1561.271,"body":"don't enjoy her music."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1561.371,"endTime":1563.041,"body":"I think she's"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1561.371,"endTime":1563.041,"body":"incredibly talented."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1563.081,"endTime":1567.861,"body":"I, respect her in so many"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1563.081,"endTime":1567.861,"body":"ways, her philanthropy or"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1568.211,"endTime":1571.561,"body":"the, what she's done for"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1568.211,"endTime":1571.561,"body":"the music industry and"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1571.581,"endTime":1573.851,"body":"for millions of people."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1574.311,"endTime":1575.701,"body":"Yeah, frankly, 10."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1575.701,"endTime":1580.751,"body":"2 million people have seen"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1575.701,"endTime":1580.751,"body":"her perform over 150 shows."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1581.021,"endTime":1581.641,"body":"Incredible."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1581.771,"endTime":1582.131,"body":"Incredible."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1582.801,"endTime":1583.581,"body":"In person."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1584.076,"endTime":1585.316,"body":"I have a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1584.076,"endTime":1585.316,"body":"five and a ten year old"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1585.316,"endTime":1587.756,"body":"daughter, so I can't, I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1585.316,"endTime":1587.756,"body":"can't speak negatively about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1587.756,"endTime":1588.826,"body":"Taylor Swift in any way,"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1589.316,"endTime":1590.276,"body":"form, or mass."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1590.276,"endTime":1593.646,"body":"No, I would never, but, if"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1590.276,"endTime":1593.646,"body":"I have a choice of music"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1593.646,"endTime":1596.226,"body":"to listen to, it wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1593.646,"endTime":1596.226,"body":"be that, I can say that"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1596.226,"endTime":1597.406,"body":"without getting shot, too."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1597.656,"endTime":1598.936,"body":"anything else to say, sir?"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1598.936,"endTime":1601.916,"body":"What's your next event?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1602.236,"endTime":1603.866,"body":"I have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1602.236,"endTime":1603.866,"body":"so much to share, Corey."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1603.876,"endTime":1604.576,"body":"How much time do we have?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1604.676,"endTime":1608.106,"body":"well, let's just touching"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1604.676,"endTime":1608.106,"body":"briefly one more time on"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1608.106,"endTime":1609.136,"body":"this plastics treaty thing."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1609.136,"endTime":1610.026,"body":"I will say, for the U."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1610.026,"endTime":1610.166,"body":"S."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1610.186,"endTime":1613.416,"body":"based companies and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1610.186,"endTime":1613.416,"body":"listeners out there, it's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1613.416,"endTime":1614.996,"body":"incredibly likely that the U."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1614.996,"endTime":1615.116,"body":"S."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1615.176,"endTime":1616.036,"body":"are unlikely."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1616.046,"endTime":1616.776,"body":"Sorry that the U."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1616.776,"endTime":1616.886,"body":"S."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1616.896,"endTime":1618.646,"body":"is actually going to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1616.896,"endTime":1618.646,"body":"ratify any treaty that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1618.646,"endTime":1619.546,"body":"comes out of this process."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1619.546,"endTime":1620.146,"body":"Anyway, the U."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1620.146,"endTime":1620.316,"body":"S."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1620.326,"endTime":1622.346,"body":"generally doesn't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1620.326,"endTime":1622.346,"body":"ratify treaties."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1622.756,"endTime":1626.016,"body":"and, after the election"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1622.756,"endTime":1626.016,"body":"this past November,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1626.126,"endTime":1627.046,"body":"Whether or not the U."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1627.046,"endTime":1627.216,"body":"S."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1627.216,"endTime":1630.786,"body":"is even in support of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1627.216,"endTime":1630.786,"body":"treaty, much less ratifying"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1630.786,"endTime":1633.856,"body":"it is really up in the air,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1630.786,"endTime":1633.856,"body":"probably more likely than not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1633.866,"endTime":1636.606,"body":"that our federal government"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1633.866,"endTime":1636.606,"body":"is going to say, No, we want"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1636.606,"endTime":1637.566,"body":"nothing to do with this."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1637.936,"endTime":1640.716,"body":"So I think, if you're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1637.936,"endTime":1640.716,"body":"interested in this topic as a U."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1640.716,"endTime":1640.886,"body":"S."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1640.916,"endTime":1644.136,"body":"corporation, and you would"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1640.916,"endTime":1644.136,"body":"like to see some level of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1644.176,"endTime":1646.956,"body":"business continuity, risk"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1644.176,"endTime":1646.956,"body":"mitigation, et cetera, on the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1646.956,"endTime":1648.106,"body":"issue of plastic pollution."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1648.436,"endTime":1650.546,"body":"I would say now's a good time"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1648.436,"endTime":1650.546,"body":"to start getting up to speed"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1650.546,"endTime":1652.596,"body":"on what these negotiations,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1650.546,"endTime":1652.596,"body":"like what's happening in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1652.596,"endTime":1655.896,"body":"these negotiations, because"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1652.596,"endTime":1655.896,"body":"we could be facing a situation"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1655.896,"endTime":1659.366,"body":"similar to the 2016 17"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1655.896,"endTime":1659.366,"body":"transition where the U."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1659.366,"endTime":1659.496,"body":"S."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1659.506,"endTime":1661.276,"body":"hadn't ratified"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1659.506,"endTime":1661.276,"body":"the Paris Treaty."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1661.561,"endTime":1664.681,"body":"The Trump administration,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1661.561,"endTime":1664.681,"body":"basically backed away from it."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1665.031,"endTime":1669.781,"body":"And then companies, NGOs,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1665.031,"endTime":1669.781,"body":"states, cities here in the US"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1669.781,"endTime":1673.801,"body":"had to go forward with a sort"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1669.781,"endTime":1673.801,"body":"of we're still in mentality."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1674.191,"endTime":1677.361,"body":"it's not entirely clear"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1674.191,"endTime":1677.361,"body":"what that looks like for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1677.361,"endTime":1678.321,"body":"a global plastics treaty."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1678.321,"endTime":1681.421,"body":"But I think we might be Gearing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1678.321,"endTime":1681.421,"body":"up for something like that."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1681.861,"endTime":1686.831,"body":"and I guess like our next events"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1681.861,"endTime":1686.831,"body":"here at Trellis is our Green Biz"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1686.831,"endTime":1688.531,"body":"event in Phoenix in February."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1688.941,"endTime":1692.261,"body":"We're going to be having some"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1688.941,"endTime":1692.261,"body":"discussions around policy, but"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1692.261,"endTime":1695.371,"body":"I would say, shameless pitch"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1692.261,"endTime":1695.371,"body":"for circularity in Denver,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1695.371,"endTime":1698.221,"body":"Colorado, April 29th to May 1st."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1698.656,"endTime":1701.206,"body":"We have a whole track on policy."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1701.426,"endTime":1703.356,"body":"we have quite a few"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1701.426,"endTime":1703.356,"body":"discussions around plastics"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1703.356,"endTime":1704.626,"body":"and packaging at that event."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1704.916,"endTime":1708.116,"body":"and so we'd love to see"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1704.916,"endTime":1708.116,"body":"folks there if they would"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1708.116,"endTime":1709.236,"body":"like to join us in Denver."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1709.486,"endTime":1710.166,"body":"Beautiful city."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1710.591,"endTime":1711.261,"body":"Beautiful place."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1711.291,"endTime":1712.441,"body":"Yeah, that's great."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1712.901,"endTime":1714.361,"body":"Very excited"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1712.901,"endTime":1714.361,"body":"about it as a host city."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1714.361,"endTime":1717.031,"body":"We've got a bunch of really"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1714.361,"endTime":1717.031,"body":"good, local, local support"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1717.031,"endTime":1719.141,"body":"from the NGOs, from the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1717.031,"endTime":1719.141,"body":"business community there"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1719.151,"endTime":1719.851,"body":"from the government."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1720.281,"endTime":1722.861,"body":"and it's, going to be one of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1720.281,"endTime":1722.861,"body":"our first States here in the US"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1722.881,"endTime":1724.511,"body":"to implement a packaging EPR."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1724.521,"endTime":1726.801,"body":"So there's going to be plenty to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1724.521,"endTime":1726.801,"body":"talk about on the policy front."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1728.171,"endTime":1728.431,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1728.471,"endTime":1731.141,"body":"That's going to be so"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1728.471,"endTime":1731.141,"body":"impactful and valuable."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1731.911,"endTime":1732.891,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1732.951,"endTime":1735.201,"body":"Definitely encourage anyone who"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1732.951,"endTime":1735.201,"body":"hasn't been to a Trellis event."},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1735.801,"endTime":1737.291,"body":"Like I said, they're"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1735.801,"endTime":1737.291,"body":"really helpful."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1738.376,"endTime":1740.116,"body":"They are"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1738.376,"endTime":1740.116,"body":"impressive as an Oregonian"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1740.116,"endTime":1741.296,"body":"visiting Colorado."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1741.296,"endTime":1742.516,"body":"I always feel at home."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1743.196,"endTime":1747.316,"body":"we're equally, green"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1743.196,"endTime":1747.316,"body":"focused and, a little bit"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1747.326,"endTime":1749.296,"body":"strange in the best ways."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1749.296,"endTime":1751.176,"body":"I think, thanks again, John."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1751.176,"endTime":1754.506,"body":"We appreciate you and, hope"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1751.176,"endTime":1754.506,"body":"to have you on after 5."},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1754.576,"endTime":1758.736,"body":"2 to see, uh, how that goes."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1759.226,"endTime":1759.816,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Cory Connors","startTime":1760.086,"endTime":1760.846,"body":"hopefully better"},{"speaker":"Brodie Vander Dussen","startTime":1761.096,"endTime":1762.136,"body":"crossing my fingers for you."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1763.156,"endTime":1763.406,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1763.636,"endTime":1764.246,"body":"Thank you, sir."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1764.736,"endTime":1765.016,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Dr. Jon Smieja","startTime":1765.026,"endTime":1765.806,"body":"Thanks for having me."}]}