US Plastics Pact (Marcu Alexander)

https://usplasticspact.org/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcu-alexander-651a905/

What is the US Plastics Pact? 

Who should join the US Plastics Pact? 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/cory-connors/

I'm here to help you make your packaging more sustainable! Reach out today and I'll get back to you asap.

This podcast is an independent production and the podcast production is an original work of the author. All rights of ownership and reproduction are retained—copyright 2022.

Transcript

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Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guest is my very good friend, Marcu Alexander. She is the Director of Development and Strategic Initiatives at the US Plastics Pact. Wow. That's quite a title my friend. I like, it's a mouthful. I like to keep you going. Our mutual friend, Jonathan Quinn, assigned you that title and it's very lucrative title. Well deserved. I'm excited to hear about all things the US Plastics Pact, but let's catch the audience up. Although you've been on the show before. What's your background and how did you get here? I've been in the packaging industry for a little over 20 years. I. I actually first started working for a small family owned packaging company in Seattle, Washington, where I did inside sales and customer service. So I was on the packaging supplier side, which was both really fun. and then my family, we moved to Boise, Idaho. I took a job with Happy Family Organics as, their packaging development, person at the time, it was Happy Family was pretty small, and then they had just been acquired by Danone. So I spent eight and a half years doing all of the packaging development work and sustainability work at Happy Family, and then moved over to Danone and worked with all of the brands on their packaging sustainability initiatives. So I was at Danone for 11 and a half years before making the switch to the US Plastics Pact. So I've hit all different angles. Yeah, I was gonna say you've worked for a very small, to medium to very large company and now a global company, US Plastics Pact is well known around the world and so is Danone, and I think you were perfect for this role. when I saw your announcement I said, oh, that makes sense. She's perfect for it. So well done. That's nice. Thank you. Yeah, we were talking about your speaking abilities and the way you are in front of an audience, before the show started. And I just want to tell everybody, if you're looking for a great speaker, Marco, who is one of the topnotch people that you should have at your event to talk about the US Plastics Pact and what they're doing there.'cause it's a important cause. I appreciate that. And yes, I am a, I'm a big talker by nature and when you give a topic about something I'm passionate about, You better. Hold on. Won't. That's right. I won't stop. That's awesome. let's talk about your role at, just Plastics Pact. what's your kind of day-to-day job like there? a little bit of everything. we're a small but mighty nonprofit, working in this space of bringing all parts of the plastics value chain together to work toward a, a circular economy for plastics, which is no, easy undertaking. So a lot of my day-to-day is really connecting with existing activators, which are the members of the Plastics Pact. also trying to find, new activators to join. I, we have really good representation across the value chain. but there's really, we need more voices.'cause where we sit within the Plastics Pact is we're a convener of all, we've got. Brands and retailers, and we have resin suppliers and reclaimers and haulers. we really run the gambit across the value chain, which also includes state and local governments. So I really wanna expand those voices and bring more to the table because we really, we come together to create actionable solutions toward that common vision. And really it's all driven, in fact, in science. And it's like, how do we bring that all together from our different parts of the chain and actually make, move the needle on this plastic circularity and making plastic circular is, it's not an easy task. What you've taken on is a huge, undertaking and I'd like to talk a little bit about who should join, who should reach out to you today to be a part of this solution? I. Honestly, everyone that touches plastic in their jobs, we really, we have pretty good representation across all the different sectors. I would love to see more engagement from packaging suppliers. I will speak candidly, coming from, having, before joining the US Plastics Pact, I was, with Danone, who was one of the first activators to join the US Plastics Pact. So my lens is through having been in the activator seat and knowing. The, like, the magic behind what goes on, particularly in work streams, which is where the action plans really take place. And I know coming from the brand side, I would talk to suppliers, throughout my organization, working on a new project. And a lot of them weren't really engaged in what's happening in the sustainability space. Or they maybe would talk about it, but they weren't actually at the table. So, I always am always looking to get more of the packaging suppliers there as well as, more murphs, more of the, end of the chain. Yeah. Because the magic that I found personally from being a brand activator was if I had any question, that I ha, that I couldn't directly answer and I didn't know where to go to get it. I would go to Basecamp, which is the platform we used to communicate within the pact and pose the question, and I would get immediate responses, and being able to have direct conversations with a RF to ask them about, okay, if we're doing this to a package. Is it, we wanna make sure we're redesigning this correctly. What, talk to me about how it goes through, how it gets sorted through the, through the stream. And so having those face-to-face conversations are so powerful in the amount of education I received from others throughout the value chain. When I was in that activator seat was, I couldn't get that anywhere else. It's an incredible community and, hyper-focused on one goal, which is, like you said at the beginning, to make plastic circular and to, to innovate and recycle, and use less. And all the things that we're trying to do to make packaging more sustainable. It sounds like. we know that there's not one silver bullet approach, and so we, we have five very key targets that we're trying to reach. And so each of those key targets, for instance, the first one is eliminating problematic and unnecessary materials. So it lists out, places that need innovation for you in order for them to have a, an actual end of life that makes sense, or, chemicals of concern that we just need to stay away from completely. and then, having each of our work streams has projects designed to meet, to, to meet those different targets, whether it's, designing for recyclability, compostability, or reusability, or how to increase, incorporate PCR into your packaging mean. We really touch all of the different aspects, which is why our roadmap and our targets are in the shape of a circle. It really is defining, like we need all of those to create that circular economy. That's excellent, and thank you for the perfect segue into my next question. I wanted to ask you about the Roadmap 2.0 and your 2025, strategic initiatives. Can you walk us through, I know, a lot of people aren't really sure what the US Plastics Pact does, and I want to highlight this as a huge offering that you have. So when we, Ori originally kicked off, which was really in response to the El MacArthur Foundation, the Global Commitments in 2018. We started a couple years later and had that roadmap to 2025 in line with El MacArthur Foundation. And there's Global PACS from around the world that were all designed to help facilitate that through action in our respective countries.'cause of course, they're all different. and so now, before. EMF is getting ready to come out with their revised global commitments. But prior to that, we saw that, okay, we've been able to check the box on these things. we've made great progress, but how do we continue driving forward? And that's where Roadmap 2.0 came. So what was really cool about that too is that was developed. From all the activators participation. So that was developed for and by members of the US Plastics Pact. And it was really looking at each of the targets that we had to meet by 2025, seeing what we've already accomplished and where do we still, where is there still gaps or where do we still need, development and work. And so that's really where we are now. we're already looking ahead at Roadmap 2.0, even though we're in 2025 because you gotta plan ahead. but really it's. Looking at strategic initiatives. So I'll give you a couple examples of things we're working on for this year. Thank you. one, we're getting ready to kick off a retail reuse initiative, which is really exciting. So it's where we actually will bring retailers and brands together to pick a packaging format that can be scaled across multiple, multiple companies and brands, and actually put those into market and see them, come to fruition in terms of. Consumers re actually starting to reuse, I think, right? So far where we've seen, reuse successful is in closed, closed stadiums and concerts and things like that, but we really need to scale that beyond, and so it's getting engaged in that. We're really excited to kick that off. We're also getting ready to kick off, a very cool consumer behavior research project, which is actually phase one. So we know there's a lot of consumer research out there around recyclability and behaviors. so we don't wanna duplicate any of that. What we wanna understand is what's getting in the way of consumers actually recycling. recycling rates have been stagnant for years. A lot of things have been done to improve, infrastructure and design, although there's still, of course, room to go, but. What is preventing them? what's stuck in here that's preventing that behavior change? So really identifying that. And then from that knowledge, we're going to be implementing actual consumer campaigns to get that behavior to change. And we don't know what that looks like yet because we haven't done the research. It could be a number of things like do we start, implementing this type of education in elementary schools and get it ingrained and then kids go home and tell mom and dad, but then it also just becomes a normal part of daily life. Yes. So there's just a number of things we're looking at to really try and unlock that mystery that hasn't changed in so many years. And, EPR will help with that. Absolutely, yes. we're very strongly in support of EPR. But at the end of the day, everyone within the value chain can do all the things that they need to do. But if the consumer isn't doing their part at the end by recycling, then it's all for naught. So we need to pull them into this pi, this picture. So. Well said. Absolutely true. And I like the idea of starting with the youth. I got the opportunity to speak at my son's school, when he was in fourth grade, and I talked about recycling. And kids were so excited to talk about what they know about recycling. And I said, I would hold up something and I would say, is this recyclable? And they would say, and they would. the classroom got very excited. Oh, yes. I recycle those. My mom tells me, or my dad says this. Or, and I think it's such a good learning opportunity. Yeah, that's exactly right. I could see having some kind of a program developed for kids and for youth. And when I say kids, people under 18, in that, and that's not a slight to them, they're just young. And, so, but what I'm seeing, but they care and they wanna do the right thing. I'm often stopped at packaging events by students that listen to this podcast because they care, they want the future of packaging to be sustainable. And so the 18 to 25 age group is very intense and very interested in, and the younger than 18 group too, I think is very interested in sustainability. Oh, for sure. I'll give you an example of what happened in my daughter's junior high. So when she first started, this was a couple years ago. And her teacher, there was a recycle bin in the classroom, but her teacher would throw everything in the garbage bin underneath her desk. And my daughter, when she didn't think the teacher was looking, would go and she'd pull the things out and take 'em to the recycling bin. And her teacher finally said, are you shaming me? Like, are you moving my recyclable? She's like, yeah, my mom would kill me if she saw this happening. She's like, I just, it's in me. I have to do it. So for Christmas, we bought her teacher a little desk size recycle bin to put next to her. yes. her garbage can. So we just started this whole chain and then, she, I actually was contacted by the school 'cause we, I live in Boise and we have the Hefty Renew program and my daughter brought one of the orange bags to school. They thought that the school was implementing it. So then I was getting phone calls, like, how do we implement this in other junior highs? I was like, oh boy, my daughter, wow, my daughter ran with that. But that's really where the change, like I do think the kids are gonna have it figured out a lot better than we do. I agree. and like you said, they go home to their family And they become that leader. Yeah. to make a change. I think what upsets me a lot is when I see people post that recycling doesn't work. because although it is a broken system and it's not perfect that. Is a terrible mindset to share. if their intention is to say, we need to fix it, that's one thing. But in, my experience with those kinds of comments, 'cause I get those a lot on my tiktoks or Different things as, you've seen that kind of Comment. It's like, oh, nobody recycles, gimme a break guy. it's, They do and they are, and it's growing and it's getting better. But I'd love to hear some, maybe some good news from you. is there a program that you've seen be successful? Is there some kind of a recycling that's growing in a way for plastic that is noticeable? I would say education is always key. And one thing I tell people if they, complain to me that they don't think it's working or they can't see it. I always tell everyone, have you ever gone to a Murph? Have you ever toured a Murph? And in fact, I just, scheduled one for the Boise Murph. we actually just had a $7 million upgrade. I'm really excited to see it, but I'm in this local sustainability group. They're not packaging sustainability folks, they're in the sustainability space. And we were at a meetup and I asked them how many of them had been to a Mur RF and not a single person had. And I was like, I'm gonna fix that because to me, seeing is believing. So I am really, I think showing that to the public, to just a general consumer. And I know a PR is doing a big focus on that this month. I think that's so key to actually connect dots and show what, how it actually works. Yeah. but I am really, excited about, and I can't even believe I'm saying this'cause I've never said I was like pro ai, but the AI I am seeing in Murphs now and how they can capture such specific. Even down to a brand, but then how it's helping reduce contamination and, eliminating viable packaging from going to landfill. I'm really inspired by that. Yes, me too. I'm really excited about reuse. I think it has such great potential. We just need it to click and catch on. and the lazy consumer, which I, we all are convenient. We all are. is, so important and something Jonathan always says, that I just absolutely, totally agree with, is that package or plastic is known for being convenient. It's not always convenient to recycle. Particularly if you think about like flexible film at store drop off, that's not convenient. So how do we change the mindset to where plastic actually has value? And there's, when you put it, when you recycle a aluminum can or glass, like consumers can see the dollar sign, like they get that right. How do we change that to where they see that same thing with plastic because it has value. So I'm really, optimistic that some shifts are coming and I definitely think EPR will help that, particularly when it comes to funding consumer education. I see. That's where a lot of gaps. It's just you don't know what you don't know. And, we just, I'm with you. Whenever I see any sort of headline that talks about recycling isn't real, it's almost like a stab to the heart because I know it is. I've seen it. I, I live in this space. I, it's so real. and so if we can really educate consumers and bring that to life, the same way a straw and a turtle nose was brought to life, right? how do we make that. elicit those same emotions when it comes to actually recycling. I love that thought. Yes. We need another one of those. but a positive one for Right. Actual recycling of plastics that are actually recyclable. And how do we step that up? You and I have a unique. Position in the world where we get to go to Murph's and we've been to several across the world and, we've got to see actual recycling in action. do you think we need some more deposit return schemes, like a bottle deposit like we have in Oregon, or what is the US Plastics Pact pushing for that? What I would say we're pushing for is good policy. And providing, and we aren't, we don't lobby, but what we can do is provide education not only to consumers, but to legislators. on, on, what makes sense and what's real and what's not. And, dispel some of those myths. Yes. I personally think that, deposit return systems are. look at the states that have it. They have higher recycling rates. Yeah. Where I think, where I see, there's more carrots for a consumer than sticks. Yes. And I think, that would be an interesting take. a consumer doesn't get their hands slapped. they might get a nasty note on their recycle bin, but, not, there's no real repercussion if you aren't, recycling something correctly or whatever. but I think the carrots where there's carrots offered, they work. So I think there's a balance of both. That's an excellent point. Yeah. If we could make some kind of financial incentive for the consumer to recycle that would make sense. And the deposit return schemes are that in my opinion. and, but there's gotta be more. There's gotta be, what if plastics bag, plastic bags had a price on 'em too. there's another, there's more ways to look at this, I think. I agree. Really good point. So you mentioned you're gonna be speaking at a couple of events here coming up. Do you wanna tell the audience about some of those, or, sure. maybe we should talk about, SPC. Are you gonna be you'll be there. I will be there. I'm not speaking at the event, but I'm very excited. It's in Seattle, which is where I lived for many years, so it's, I feel like it's my homeland. So, yeah, I'll be at SPC Impact, which is always a great show. That's where you and I can usually catch up over a beverage. Yes. Some sort. Yes. I look forward to it. Yes. but prior April is a busy month. First, next week I'm heading to Montreal. There's a Canadian, circular economy event going on, and there's a Canadian Plastics Pack summit. So I'll be sitting with Sherry Maryweather, who's the, who runs the candidate Plastics pack, and we'll be having a little fireside chat. Also with a gentleman from RAP to take a look at what's happening in different parts of the world, and really talking about the connection between Canada and the us. Although we're different countries, we're part of North America and we have a lot of synergies there. and then I'm actually headed to Houston, and the Baker Institute is having a sustainability summit. Wow. Which is, it's new to me, but I've had a call with them and I've been looking into their work and I feel like making more of those, public sector outreach programs is just so important. and then yes, of course, SPC. I'm also in, I think it's in June, the Plastics Re, or Plastics Recycling Summit. They all, there's all, there's so many. And then I just got back from Plastics Recycling Conference, which was fantastic. It's always a pleasure every year. Such, where was that? That was in, national Harbor, which is just outside of dc. Oh, wow. Which, I'm also going back to DC right? I go from Montreal to DC to attend the WWF Plastics Policy Summit, which I'm really excited about. I haven't attended that before. That's not wrestling. That's the, that's No, that would be the World Wildlife Fund. Yes. Although, who knows, in DC there might be some wrestling going on the Capitol. Who knows? A lot of people listening to this might not be aware of how, in involved the, WWF is in, the community of sustainability and packaging. I don't know if you wanna speak to that at all, but, are they're very involved with the US Plastics Pack too, right? They have been historically, yes. Pri primarily when it came to our reporting. however, they're switching gears on how they're doing their reporting. more in line with. CDP, which is what other plastics pact around the world use. So while yes, they're still very meaningful part of the pact. we've gone from kindergarten years to being more teenagers, so we're internalizing, reporting this year. because we have all of the capabilities now. but certainly they've been a huge source of knowledge and just their passion and their expertise in that realm are. it goes back years and years. They've always been a part of, making the environment, safer and, and cleaner and in so many different ways. So, yeah, make sure you're a member of that organization too, if as a, as just as a person if you're listening. yes. let's talk about how people can join the US Plastics Pact and what are the steps, how does it work? contacting me is a good first step or I can track you down. Yeah. Really? Yeah. it's just even reaching out. I am more than happy to walk through. for each sector that's a part of the pact, whether you're a brand or retailer, whether you are a, public sector, whether you're another nonprofit, really. Outlining the benefits and the ways that you can engage in your space, because we really, truly need all those voices because one group alone cannot accomplish this very challenging, feat of creating a circular economy. So I'm sure you'll be able to provide my contact info. It's really just reaching out, I, I have the chance to connect with people. very regularly at conferences, which I love the in-person communication, but also I'm always happy to hop on a call and really walk through more in depth all of our strategic initiatives, because truly everything that we do ladders up to our five targets, which is, designing, incorporating PCR, eliminating problematic. How do we actually increase recycling rates? we have this new reuse, so there's a number of different, targets we're working toward. Every one of our strategic initiatives is laddered up to one of those to accomplish that goal. So everything we do has a purpose and we truly are driven by action. and so if anyone has any sort of interest in even just learning more, please connect with me. it's something I'm really passionate about, sharing, particularly having been an activator in what I gained and what my organization gained from being a part of it. there's no other place where all. All parties convene in like a safe pre-lab collaborative, pre-competitive, environment to really get things done. I think I first learned that phrase from you. Oh, really? Pre, pre-competition collaboration. I remember looking, you were on stage and I wrote it down and I remember thinking, she is so smart. Oh my gosh, what a great idea. So thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. And, I, I did want to say, I think you should, possibly look at the Green Sports Alliance. I was there, a few weeks ago. Yep. We are very well connected. Okay, good. Because, what they're doing is reuse, with the teams here at Bold Reuse and some other companies. But no, that made me think of what you're doing. So well done. Thank you, mark, who appreciate your wisdom. Of course. It's always a pleasure chatting with you, Corey.