Ritual’s Journey to Safer Packaging with Lindsay Dahl

In this episode of Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors, Cory welcomes Lindsay Dahl, a long‑time environmental health advocate and current Chief Impact Officer at Ritual. Lindsay shares insights from her 20‑year career working to eliminate toxic chemicals from our homes, products, and environment — including packaging.

The conversation explores Ritual’s sustainability journey, their data‑driven approach to packaging decisions, transparent ingredient sourcing, and why “perfect” packaging solutions rarely exist. Lindsay also dives into her new book Cleaning House, discussing chemical misinformation, environmental justice, and the urgent need for bipartisan progress.

Key Topics Discussed:

• Lindsay’s 20‑year career combating toxic chemical pollution
• How policy, advocacy, and corporate change intersect
• Ritual’s mission: safety, efficacy, and extreme transparency
• Why Ritual publicly shares supplier and manufacturing information
• How Ritual evaluates packaging through life cycle assessments
• Why recycled PET, stock packaging, and moisture‑protective bottles matter
• The story behind ditching plastic scoops — and the impact
• Real trade‑offs between recyclability, carbon footprint & product protection
• The role of misinformation and why Lindsay wrote Cleaning House
• Chemical safety, environmental justice, and social media harms
• How consumers can make informed decisions about toxins and packaging
• The difference between “looks sustainable” vs. “actually sustainable”
• Why sustainability and health are interconnected

Resources Mentioned:

• Ritual Supplements 
• Cleaning House: The Fight to Rid Our Homes of Toxic Chemicals – available wherever books are sold
• Bookshop.org (supports independent bookstores)

Contact:

Connect with Lindsay Dahl on LinkedIn
Learn more or shop Ritual at ritual.com

Closing Thoughts:

Cory and Lindsay emphasize the importance of honesty, transparency, and scientific rigor in sustainable packaging. Lindsay highlights the value of lifecycle assessments, the need to move away from perfection narratives, and the importance of understanding the full environmental and social impact of toxic chemicals.

Listeners are encouraged to explore Ritual’s sustainability work, pick up Lindsay’s new book, and stay curious about the ingredients and packaging choices behind everyday products.

Thank you for tuning in to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors!

Support our Sponsors 

Learn more here:

• www.3M.com/sustainablepackaging
• https://www.specright.com/
• https://www.loraxcompliance.com/

Connect with Cory

Connect with Cory on LinkedIn here: 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/cory-connors/

I'm here to help you make your packaging more sustainable! Reach out today and I'll get back to you asap. 

This podcast is an independent production and the podcast production is an original work of the author. All rights of ownership and reproduction are retained—copyright 2022.

Transcript

0:07

Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors presented by Atlantic Packaging. I'm your host, Cory Connors. In today's episode, I connected with Chief Impact Officer and author, Lindsay Dahl from Ritual. Lindsay's book is called Cleaning House, The Fight to Rid Our Homes of Toxic Chemicals. We spend time talking about the book and how they are using sustainable packaging at Ritual. I'd also like to thank our sponsors, 3M, SpecRite, and Lorax EPI. We couldn't do this show without him. Welcome to sustainable packaging. I'm so excited for today's guests. talking about the fight to rid our homes of toxic chemicals. Lindsay Dahl, author, CIO. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. I was really impressed with your book and I want to talk to you about all of that and your company that you run. But before we get into all of that information, can you tell us about your background and how you got so interested in this kind of fight as you put it? Sure, yeah, I've spent the last 20 years working on toxic chemical pollution in our air and our water and our products. And so that also includes packaging, as you well know. And the goal for me across a lot of different roles has been how do we push companies or now within companies that I'm working, make better decisions that help start to move our consumer economy away from some of these toxic chemicals? And second, how do we use the power of policy? uh as a way to help shift the market away from toxic chemicals, including outright bans on certain toxic chemicals, either within packaging or within the products themselves. That's great. There has been some exciting law changes recently about dyes and chemicals and food and cleaners and things like that. So that's great to hear that you're a part of that. You're the chief impact officer for Ritual. What is the company all about? What's the mission? Yeah, our focus is on women's health supplements and we're helping to address two of the kind of key consumer questions people have when they're shopping for supplements, which is, this safe for me and is it going to work? So solving those safety and efficacy gaps is what we're all about at Ritual. And my role as Chief Impact Officers, I get to lead a lot of the fun work that we're known for, like our ingredient traceability. So we launched almost nine years ago and We publicly share all of our suppliers names and the final place in manufacturing on our website for everyone to see stuff that people thought was crazy to do when we first launched and is still unprecedented in the industry. And, uh you know, I get to oversee our sustainability, including packaging, our advocacy work, our brand PR marketing. And so how we tell the stories of the hard work we do to the consumer for a category supplements that uh really has a high level of skepticism and for good reason. And so we're the kind of brand that wants to show people the receipts of what we do and those proof points, and then they can decide if we're the right brand for them. That's excellent. Yeah, you're right. There is a lot of skepticism, but I think people are coming around to the idea of supplements as being an incredible value and importance to their daily rituals and food intake and intake in supplements. I love your LinkedIn page where it says we help turn healthy habits into a ritual. I think that's so important that we all celebrate that. You have an incredible social media presence with over 430,000 followers on Instagram. How do you engage with a community like that to help spread the message that you're trying to portray? I think consistency and long-form storytelling are two of the things we do best. So I like to work for brands that are trying to genuinely solve problems. And when you do that, it means that you typically have contextual answers. So I'll give you an example of that and how it plays across our social media. Packaging is a great example. We use uh recycled packaging for a lot of our products. you we have a lot of questions that were coming in of like, Hey, why aren't you using glass? And so instead of just defending, you know, recycled packaging, without any sort of context, we were, we were like, we're actually going to across social media comments from direct inquiries. And then through these different levers we have as a business, we're actually going to lean in and talk about the like, really hard and complicated decision of like, is this going to be curbside recyclable? What's the weight and the carbon impacts? Because we do life cycle assessments for all of our packaging and showing people the comparison of carbon because we also have climate goals as a company and just like how it's actually not easy to find the perfect solution while still giving people confidence in our diligence and rigor around the recycled packaging that we do source. That goes against every marketer's playbook where it's like less information, I always have the posture of we're perfect, like all that kind of stuff. We've actually just like thrown that tool book. We never have embraced that tool book. And as it turns out, we don't put pressure on ourselves to like have just like a single post speak for us. We know that it's just like a constant ongoing education as new people are introduced to our business. How it should be. Yeah, we should, we should be honest and we should tell the truth. And it's so refreshing to hear that answer from, from you and from a large brand like yourself. It's, frustrating to hear the constant perfection from other, other people. Uh, so I like to post about how I've, I've failed and this is, this is a, I made a mistake and you know, uh, I think that's, it's really valuable. Can you tell us a little bit more about your packaging? I think that. that would be interesting for this audience. Yeah, we've got a variety of different products. We actually don't have a lot of SKUs given what is typical in the supplement industry. We're really kind of deliberate about what we launch and when. So we have several different packaging formats and we really try to like keep to as much as we can. We like to use stock packaging but make it look beautiful, which again is kind of counter to what a lot of brands are doing. They really wanna go the custom route. We want stock to use stock for a lot of different reasons. A lot of it has to do with like simplicity and size and recyclability. So like we just launched a magnesium powder, for example, in a tub that's made from 100 % recycled PET and also is curbside recyclable. But we made the label look really cool. And so that's kind of our general approach. I think one thing that's interesting in supplements and a good example is we have a gut health product called Symbiotic. uh In the gut health space, oftentimes those products either need to be refrigerated, which we know consumers don't really like to do. It's like not a great experience for them. And so in that instance, we had to choose packaging that really helped control the moisture to make sure that the biotic strains were actually alive at the end of shelf life. Because what's common in the gut health space is that people are paying $60 for a bottle of a certain probiotic or a symbiotic. and the bacteria are not actually alive because of the packaging at end of their shelf life. And we really didn't want that to be the case, especially given our price point for that product. so we have, again, if you look at, have four different products, our gut health product, a beauty product, like a skin health supplement, and choline, all of which that really are like responsive in a negative way to pulling moisture from the air. And so we actually use the exact same bottle. that really helps the technology, the bottle helps us with that moisture. But again, we use like colors and labeling to like help differentiate the products. But again, approach that a lot of companies would have is like, let's create different custom bottles. And we're like, no, we're gonna use the same bottle. We know the technology works and we're just gonna use some visual things to try to differentiate the lines. That's excellent. I often say there's nothing sustainable about rotten food. And I think the intention there is there's nothing sustainable about packaging that isn't effective. If it doesn't work, it's not sustainable. It might look sustainable. It might appear environmentally friendly, but you can't put something in a paper bag that needs a two year shelf life or six months, or like you said, needs to protect the oxygen transfer rate of the material. That's really important. think that's a great message for everyone listening in the sustainable packaging space is it's got to work, right? Yeah, we also like, you know, our protein powder is a great example. The majority of the market, especially when we launched our protein powder, were in tubs, very large tubs, um taking up a lot of both shelf space, which is like good from a marketing perspective, but not good when a lot of those are going into the landfill and not being properly recycled. But we decided to launch in Flex packaging. Now you're seeing more of that on shelf, but it was like pretty contrary to what the industry was doing at the time. And again, when we ran life cycle assessments, knowing the percentage rates for recycling for plastic in general, and we did the, you know, looking at the actual volume of what would be going into a landfill for a flex packaging. it ended up being the right choice for us. And I think it also looks cool. um Consumers, like we ditched our plastic scoops and we just educate them about like, now you can use tools in your kitchen to get the right serving for our protein powder and stuff like that. So I think that's one example where it's like maybe seems less sustainable, but again, we'll talk about the trade-offs and the decisions we had to make for using Flux Packaging. What a great idea to ditch the plastic scoop. I, know, as somebody that uses supplements, you get, you buy it once and you don't need another one, you know, or, or even the first time you didn't really need one because you have a teaspoon at your house. Yeah. It's so, so simple. What a great idea. Was that one of your initiatives? Yeah, it was. The team was really excited about it. Thankfully, it wasn't just my team that was excited about the idea. And we do get some questions from people saying like, hey, I'm surprised there's not a scoop in here. again, when we explain the anticipated volume every year of plastic we have saved by opting out, they're quickly like, OK, that's cool. Do you know that number off the top of your head? Is that something you could share? look, I don't know it off the top of my head, but we summarized in our last year's impact report, but it will grow every year based on the volume of the different products we have. That's exciting. That's really cool. And if you've ever tried to dig for one of those scoops in a jar that's too small for that, can, I can certainly commiserate with anyone who's got powder all over their hands from trying to dig one of those things out of there. absolutely. Yeah, great idea. Well, let's talk about your book, Cleaning House, the Fight to Rid Our Homes of Toxic Chemicals. What an important topic. Like there isn't much more important than that, I think. How did you, how did this book come to be? What was the uh impetus for it? You know, I've been working on this issue for a long time and it was during COVID and about 2020 where I saw the early seeds of what now today is kind of like a major problem, which is misinformation on social media. And so I thought, you know, everyone kept tagging me in all these posts of like, so and so says this chemical safe and they don't understand the science. Can you respond? Which I didn't because it just means more people will see those posts. Or someone would say, oh, this person is fear-mongering. They're not getting the science right. Can you correct them? And I was like, no, I can't. And I really decided it's better to go analog. This is a complicated issue. Not all chemicals are toxic. They're not all toxic at the same levels and doses and exposure routes. And what this needs is needs a book to really allow for the proper context for people. But I also wanted to tell the story in a way that was interesting and fun to read. Because if I told you I'm a policy expert on toxic chemicals, like it sounds like a real dry snoozer or super depressing. And so uh my publisher Harper Collins pushed me to write it from my personal perspective. So like people learn with me along my career and using the power of story makes it more fun to read, my hope. And I also interview and highlight every single chapter I'm featuring, whether it's a scientist or a prominent politician who's been a strong champion or CEOs who have been really trying to lead the way. So I want people to meet all these kind of unknown heroes that are working really to help fight for toxic chemicals to get out of our homes, workplaces, water and air. And I really, the reason now it's the most timely is again, we have the issues becoming politicized, unfortunately, like everything it's being used as kind of like political fodder to like maintain and like bring people along for different political bases and I've worked for 20 years on this issue. It's a bipartisan issue. People of all political stripes really care about this issue. I want us to both see how much progress has been made, both on the market and policy side. But I also want people to know that we can't just like get frustrated by the online debates. We have a lot more work to do. And in order to do that, we have to tune out a lot of the misinformation on social media. I totally agree with you. It is bipartisan. It's a health and safety issue and there's nothing more level play than that. I mean, there's nothing political about that. That's everybody needs that. So well said. That's exactly right. Can you give us a couple of teasers to the book to encourage people to pick that up today? Can you give us like a few main points maybe or whatever you think would would help encourage people to buy that? Sure, yeah. So the first of which, uh I was really excited if you have seen the movie, Erin Brockovich. Erin Brockovich herself has endorsed the book and read it and loved it, which is like uh a cool thing for me. And I think if people enjoy that type of movie and storytelling again around people, then I think you would really enjoy the book. um Another kind of like teaser is, I bring people in the early days of me learning to lobby and going up against the chemical industry. And, you I call it West Wing Junior Edition, because I was just like young and kind of naive and uh poorly dressed and really in over my skis, but I didn't quite know it because I was too young. And uh I think those stories are not only humorous, but also kind of show the dynamic of just how powerful the chemical industry is and how they use seeds of doubt. which is a tobacco industry tactic, very effectively to get people to be like, this thing I heard about, whatever chemical in that product, that's not really an issue. So if you like that kind of intrigue. And then the final thing is I feature and highlight a lot of really smart, it happens to be mostly women, not entirely, women from everything from like uh indigenous organizers in Alaska to... uh CEOs of companies that are really kind of all connected to these issues of toxic chemicals from very different perspectives. So I really want people to understand that yes, it's important for us to get toxic chemicals out of our homes. But what I really want is for people to leave the book energized to take action, but connecting the dots between the toxic chemicals in our homes and the entire lifespan that they have beyond our four walls. And so that's everything from how they're made, where they're made in the United States, who's impacted that's living next to those, all the way to incineration or end of life. And what does that mean? It's not just about our exposure in our homes. There's a much bigger environment involved. And I want people to really kind of start to appreciate that, because I think we're ready for that shift. yeah, I agree. And the more I spend in the sustainable packaging space, which is my niche, the more I realize sustainability and health are basically the same. And we need the planet to be sustainable. We need our packaging. We need our our food. We need our health supplements. Everything needs to work together to to be healthier alternatives is kind of how it feels to me. The more I learn about what happens to packaging and how our food is made and how our cleaning products are made and used. So this is very exciting to learn about. I had kind of an interesting question for you. If you had a magic wand that you could just use and what are a couple things that you would just. Use your wand for today. related to packaging or bigger. you want, yeah. Anything involved in this discussion that we've had today about chemical removal from, from, from homes or, or, packaging or whatever you think. Yeah, okay. Mine are going to really span for you. I'm going to keep you on your toes. The first of which is I would get rid of all social media. It's a controversial thing to say. Yes, there's a lot of benefits to it. But I wrote a book about toxic chemical pollution and I end up talking about how the most toxic thing in our homes is social media. It's not only toxic for this issue and misinformation, but deteriorating our ability to have conversations with people that are different than us. throughroding our democracy, I really think social media, I would wave the wand and have that go away. um The second is that I would love to like fix the inherent flaws with our current recycling infrastructure in a way that would help respond to and help make it easier for companies to make decisions around what truly is sustainable and what that means for the overall recycling infrastructure. And then the third is that I would love for people to really make the connection, uh as I previously mentioned, between chemicals and our products and the much longer lifespan that they have, uh where they're made, who, including workers and communities living next to those facilities that have a greater impact to help kind of make sure people understand and appreciate the social justice intersections when we're talking about product safety or packaging. There's a lot of communities that are deeply impacted well beyond any sort of consumer exposure. Yeah, that's an excellent point. We've talked about that in the past on the show about Cancer Alley and just these different communities that have been absolutely devastated by production of harsh chemicals and things like that. So I commend you on that. And I love the ideas. I agree with you on most of those points. think social media can be used positively. but it also can be very negative to a lot of us. so well said, great points. Let's talk a little bit about how to buy your book and how to get a hold of your company and buy those products. Yeah, thank you. You can purchase our products at ritual.com. We sell in a lot of different retailers as well, Target, Amazon, Walmart. And I also, you can purchase my book anywhere books are sold. I always love for people to support their local independent bookstore if they can. If not, bookshop.org is a good way to support local while still ordering online, but it is available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble. all those good places. And if people read it and like it, please leave a review because reviews really matter for a first time author like myself. you can reach out to me. I'm available on LinkedIn to anyone who wants to have a conversation. That's great. One of my first customers 20 something years ago was Powell's books and, or in Oregon here where I live, they're, they're the largest independent, bookseller. And so I, I totally agree with you. Those independent books stores are such a neat place to, to be. And if you ever have an extra Saturday, just go into a Powell's books or an independent bookstore and just walk around and you'll, you'll learn something about something. I promise. Anything else you wanted to say, Lindsay, before we finish up? No, just thanks for having me on. It's my honor and privilege to get to have you on. really appreciate what you're doing and can't wait to support this. So thanks again and have a great day. Thank you.