Packaging Waste Needs a Seat at the Policy Table | Jackie Hope Glass

In this episode, Cory Connors sits down with Delegate Jackie Hope Glass of the Virginia House of Delegates to talk about the road that led her from community organizing to the statehouse, and what that experience has taught her about building real partnerships between policymakers and the packaging industry. Jackie shares how a habit of "minding other people's business" turned into a grassroots homework program for neighborhood kids, then a school board run, and eventually a seat in the General Assembly. She and Cory also dig into their shared experience at See Change Sessions in Vermont, the case for a national Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR) framework, and why she believes industry has a bigger role to play at the policymaking table than most people realize.

Key Topics Discussed:

•  Jackie's path from Navy veteran and community organizer to Virginia state legislator
• The origin story of her neighborhood "homework house" and how it led to public service
• Reflections on See Change Sessions in Vermont and why the event felt different from a typical industry conference
• How packaging and sustainability professionals can build real relationships with state legislators
• California's SB 54 and the challenges of getting states aligned on Extended Producer Responsibility
• Why Jackie sees packaging waste as a design and systems issue, not a moral one
• Jackie's "6 Cs" framework for guiding her legislative focus (creative, circular, coastal resilience, crime aversion, care, and cyber)
• CitizenU, Jackie's summer civic education program and policy pitch contest for constituents of all ages
• The realities of serving as a citizen legislator in Virginia's part-time General Assembly

Chapters: 

00:00 Introduction to Delegate Jackie Glass
02:14 Journey to Politics: From Community Service to Delegate
04:31 The Impact of C-Change: A Unique Policymaking Experience
08:54 Bridging the Gap: Industry and Politics Collaboration
11:19 The Six Cs: Guiding Principles for Policy
13:34 CitizenU: Empowering Citizens Through Education
15:55 Legislative Projects: Making a Difference in Virginia
19:39 Extended Producer Responsibility: A National Perspective
23:06 The Urgency of Environmental Action
26:06 SSP intro animation v1.mp4

Resources Mentioned:

• Delegate Jackie Hope Glass, Virginia House of Delegates, 93rd District
• See Change Sessions, Burlington, Vermont
• Packaging Matters at See Change Sessions

Contact:

Listeners interested in connecting with Delegate Glass's office about legislation, community programs, or CitizenU can reach out through her official Virginia House of Delegates page.

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Transcript

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we're not, we don't have as much time as we think we do. I Yeah. live in a space and place where, you know, our landfills are going to be at capacity in the next 30 years. Yeah, that's tomorrow. Every time Yeah. I say it, my stomach sort of hurts a little bit. Yeah. So there's a lot of steps that we need to be taking. And my military background says, hey, this is a matter of national security because it is.~ Mm-hmm. It is urgent and important. It's just not as sexy as housing and criminal justice Right. and all these other, it's just not a sexy issue until it's a problem, Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors presented by Atlantic Packaging. I'm your host, Cory Connors. In today's episode, I connected with delegate Jackie Glass from the Virginia House of Delegates. We discuss how we can work with our political partners to make positive Be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss any episodes. I'd also like to thank our sponsors 3M and SpecRight. We couldn't do this show without them. Welcome, Jackie Glass. We're so honored to have you here.~ The delegate from the Virginia House of Delegates, 93rd District, Welcome. Gratitude, thank you for having me. It's so good to see you again. it's been a while since we've seen each other. saw you at see change this last year in Vermont, but before we get into all that stuff, let's talk about you. Like, let's talk about your background and how you got to your position of, you know, respect and authority today. You've earned it. friend. how did I get here? Mm-hmm. I'm doing the thing that I think I've been told my whole life, talking too much and not minding my own business. That's what I. Good. As a kid, that's what I was told a lot, and I feel like that's all I do now is just talk and mind other people's No, but so I was originally ~ originally from the Chicagoland area, but I landed here in Virginia because my spouse. did he was he's an active duty Navy and retired here. But I was also active duty, just never stationed Virginia, never had the desire for Virginia was like,~ it's not happening. You can't force me. Mm-hmm. But once we decided to settle down here in Virginia, I ended up moving on a corner house. I know this is like, how'd you get here? I ended up moving on a corner house. And like most corner houses, there's a 50-50 chance that you might end up being a bus stop. no. So, my little self looking out the window every morning, Yeah. because I was working from home after I ~ separated from the Navy, there were these kids who were always doing their homework on the curb. And I was like, what is happening here? Like, why are they always out here doing? You could see them writing on the ground. What are they doing? Anyway, minding their business, found out that their mom worked late. Their sister was in high school. The times were off. So I started this thing called the homework house. grew from like these two set of twins to like 13 kids coming to my house after school telling me about stuff of it. that was happening in school. I got all wrapped up in that and started asking hey, what's the school doing? Ended up running for school board with a bunch of middle schoolers. And that's like how I like started. That's how I started. Wow. Just a... It just snowballed into other things. Just a desire to serve and be a part, sounds like. Well, yeah, just the kids, you know, there there's a level of honesty that you get from the oldest citizens and the littlest citizens that can't be like replicated. So I just had a lot of really honest people around me about what life looked like contrary to my belief and also reminded me that, you know, Miss Jackie, you could do something. You could help us do Mm-hmm. something. So it was a lot of pushing. I did not want to be a delegate. I'll say that. Like I tried to stay away from that. I love doing community work, but I didn't want to get into politics.~ But I was asked to do it and I literally cried about it. not, ⁓ Yeah Cory, I cried. I'm not kidding. I called Hahaha. my husband. I said, these people, people keep calling me asking me to do this. And I have a whole thing about respecting the no. And I said, you know, I don't think they understand. And he said to me, said, Jack, you know, all these years you've been in the community doing stuff and no one asked you to do it. You just did Mm-hmm. it. He's like, so you're either lying to yourself or you're lying to us and you either need Hmm. to do the job or find someone to do the job, period. And I cried some more and That's in Cypher. that's how I became a delegate. That's very insightful. You know, I think the best leaders are often reluctant leaders. They are Yeah.~ people like you and me that say, I don't really want to be in charge, but I will if I need to. But I think~ I don't wanna do it. Yeah. Yeah, if I have to, I'll do it. that's what makes you great though. You're not looking for glory or fame or, you know, you want to be a part of the solution. It sounds like. Yeah, it's Excalibur. You don't wield it. It's temporary power. You Yes. wield it for the time that you can and do the best, most good that you can with it. And someone else will be the delegate for the 93rd at some point. I'm just trying to do good work while I'm here. I it. Well, let's talk about C-Change. We met at C-Change sessions, which is very difficult to say, in Thanks~ Vermont last year. Did you feel a good connection with the people there? I sure did. I loved it. As a policymaker, there are very few opportunities where we get to be in the space with other policymakers on a mission, right? There's conferences where people show up and do the stuff and things, but something was special about see change. Like there was something really special where between having... the business side of things, having the policymakers that are doing and just all around curious people intentionally creating, I think it was just done with so much intent that I felt, I mean, it's one of the best experiences that I've had as a legislator, being able to sort of do that thing of building my mindset around something since I've been elected. Well said. And it felt very intimate. It felt very personal. know, it's very rare at an event where you have all of the people in the room kind of have the same mindset of, hey, we need to make a difference here. This is, we're done with same old, same old. Let's move forward. This is really what it felt like. Well, you know what it really was? It was the ability to be casually curious, right? Like Mm-hmm. just about stuff and things. So everything from like, just learning, like even what I learned about Atlantic packaging, what I learned about the glass folks, what I just learned about policymaking in general and the, how we need to be a little bit methodical about how we do this because how it impacts you all. Like there were so many, it was a string of pearls. He And I got to choose the pearls that I sort of interacted with and some of the pearls just came to me and they may have been broke if you're a pearl person. may have been saltwater, freshwater, but they were just, was ~ a, you still came out with a beautiful necklace, I sway, I don't know if that. I love that. That's exactly, that's right. That's right. That's what it felt like. You felt like you left with pearls of wisdom and you felt like you left with new friends and new confidants that you could rely on. You and I connected immediately and ~ Yeah. that was great. Let's talk a little bit about how people from the packaging industry or the industry can connect with people like you in politics to make a difference. Yeah, I mean, what I know is I ended up at see change because someone in industry said, hey, this lady's thinking about do this, invite her in. there's this mister or this myth that if there is one that we can't make those connections, I think part of it, what I felt like part of it, it was just ignorance. Like I didn't know who to connect with. I didn't know how to connect. I didn't even know who all the players were. when I think about industry folks, I think it's a matter of, I know it's a matter of just saying the thing, right? Hey, you are trying to get into this policy area. Can you, I think you need to consider, I would love to come to the table with you and sort of provide perspective because oftentimes when you all, when industry doesn't do that, we are making policy based off of perceptions and that is a dangerous place So like. knowing that you're going come in and provide perspective, right? That's all I'm here is to give you some perspective. You make us better policy makers. And so I think you just shoot your shot and assume, at least for me, I can speak for the way that I operate in my office. As I ask people to assume, I know nothing. If you're the first Mm-hmm. person to come and tell me something, great. If you're the hundred thousandth person to come and tell me something, great. That means I probably need to know how serious that was. So I'd say that You just lose that myth that we know and that we have everyone that we need because we probably didn't even know that we needed you at the table. I love that. it goes both ways, right? People from the industry don't know who to speak to in the political circle~ because Yeah. we're, and I think that's on us to learn who's excited about circularity, who's excited about sustainability like you, and who can really help us make an impact in That's true. the state or the local facilities or ~ nationally. Yeah, my hope is you have really good government affairs people, right? The people that are sort of paid to pay attention and will pull you to the table. Because I'm also learning that makes a difference. Yeah, right. Yes, I love that. Our CEO is on the board for the SB 54 in California, which is the new EPR law taking shape there. And Yeah. he's the only person from the packaging industry on that board. It's like, Wow. that seems a little like we should have a few more maybe, but he's doing great, great things. Yeah, it's a little lopsided. But we're proud of him and his work and our team, including Caroline DeLoach, who's kind of our director of sustainability, doing great things here. But you have something on your website, and I'm going to read this because it's kind of long. says, you have the six Cs, including What is it? 16th. creative, circular, coastal resilience, crime aversion, care, and cyber. Can you tell us about these six things and how you kind of came up with these ideas? Yeah, my 60s. like, I feel like I know for me, I'm a doer and I just will be like, all right, let's go. I need to focus myself. And part of that is having a mission, having a vision and having like value. And these are value areas for me. And I thought about where do I wanna put, what buckets do I wanna put the kind of policy that I find? I'm curious about or I want to partner about or I feel like I had me have some knowledge about and I came up with the sixties. really just started with creative circular and I think it was creators circular and crime averse, right? Hmm. I was figuring out I did a lot with like youth criminal justice and all these things. I was like, I don't want to do like I want to make crime is going to exist. How do we make space cry? So like then it was like, no, what are the real things that I want to be a part of? And that's That's how I guide where I'm at. So most of the policy and legislation that I get will fit in one of those buckets. The ⁓ interesting thing, Cory, as you bring that up is I've told my team⁓ we need to reevaluate, right? Because we need to reevaluate where my heart's desire truly is and maybe Hmm. narrow the scope on some of these things so that we can be a little bit more intentional. And quite frankly, brilliant when we come to the table on the theme because we've been able to hone in on. Yeah, that feels good, right? Yeah, it feels good to be like, she knows stuff. And I'm like, yes, I really do want to know stuff. don't want to do no harm. Do no harm. She knows stuff. That's right. And you've done incredible things already in your short time in politics. And I think I see bright things in the future for you. So congratulations. It is hard. Gratitude. I'm trying. I'm trying, Cory. It's hard. And I've been in the packaging industry for over Yeah. 30 years now, and I feel like I'm just starting to figure it out. like But the beauty is that I feel, I mean, the beauty is, I'm a, the buzzword is like lifelong learner, but like I truly Mm-hmm. am a student. Like I am a student and I'm happy to learn. I'm also happy to know stuff. like, know, it is Ha ha ha. a dance of, as the world turns, it's this dance of Mm-hmm. leading, following and getting out of the way. And so like the more I know, I can sort of have a little bit more discernment of, this is not something I should be leading or this is absolutely something I should be leading or you know what, I just need to get out of the way and let folks do what they do. But that's been super helpful in the process of just knowing stuff because Yeah. getting out of the way makes you fly on the wall sometimes and you get more than you could ever imagine. Hmm, I feel that way too. Yeah. It's, great to sit back and listen and learn and, and then speak up when you know something, like you said, I know stuff that feels good. Yeah. Well, speaking of people that know things when, when somebody in society is, is wanting to reach out to somebody like you, that's, that's in a position of power. How would you recommend they do that? Should they go on your website? Should they email your team? Yeah. call you every day, what do think? Yeah. All of the above, right? I don't think there's a, I'm fortunate enough to have staff and I know that every legislator, at least at the state level, and I'll backtrack and say like the state is like the middle child of government to me as a middle child in real life. Hmm. Hmm. Yes. Really? So you get it. Me too. I knew I liked you. Yeah. Like this is my oldest, this is my youngest and this is Cory, right? know, like that's, yeah, Yeah, mm-hmm. He's here too. Yeah, yeah. yeah, yeah. Nobody really. checks for us. sort of just exist in the in-between of Yeah. federal and local government and sometimes folks don't even know how to use us. So it really is all of the above. you even have the curiosity to reach out to a state level legislator or I'm just like clapping for you because, hey, I didn't even get in that game until I was in my 30s. I didn't even consider what state folks did. But calling, emailing, you know, go into the things that they show up at. get people who's like, I've just been waiting to say this to you, to your face. And most times I'm like, Hmm. that is great. Let's get something on the books. And I have to just say, hey, like, I know you want to talk to me, but I've got staff so that I don't fail you. Because I'm holding weird in the Commonwealth of Virginia, we are citizen legislators. So we have to have a day job. This does not, this is not something that I. do it full time hours, but I don't, Right, right, right. I do have to have other things. Like I have to have other things in order to sustain life. So being okay with talking with our teams and, and, ~ making space, that's what you had to have to be comfortable with. So I'd say all of the above. That's great. Can you tell us about maybe a project that you've worked on there in Virginia that you're excited about that you felt like, hey, this really made a difference or this could make a difference soon. Okay, a project that I've worked on in Virginia. I'll just take the most recent one that I just did work on this morning. Yeah. Yeah. Because I'm like, what do we do? Heh heh. Because I want everything to do something for Virginians. Well, this morning I was on a call getting prepared for 2027 legislative session, because that's really where our heads are now. I just wrapped up the 2026 session and we'll go back next year, next week for reconvening where we do all the stuff with the governors. Like the work starts at the beginning of the year. I'm already in next year. And this bill was about, this one was about, you're talking about a piece of legislation? a project that you've worked on, maybe something that you felt like was impactful, something focused on the environment or maybe, yeah. Yeah, okay. So I'll say something that I think has been super impactful that we continuously do and we get amazing things from it every single summer. So as I said before, I was not involved in the political world or anything prior to this. But when I did my first term, I went up there and I was like, what in the world? Why didn't I know this stuff as a legislator? Like what, how come I... So I started this thing called CitizenU or summer school for certified doers. So every summer Ha we do a summer school and we've had people That's awesome. from four to like 80 in the room and like, I'm just teaching the process. And it, we do it online, we do it in person. And then we have this thing called the policy pitch contest. And so the certified doers, even if they've been through, you know, summer school. they'll pitch or if they've not and they just are waiting for something like Jackie already know that stuff, they'll come in, Ha ha ha. they'll pitch policy ideas. I'll say with regards to the environment, what I find is almost every year, I think except for the second year, we've had a young person come with an environmental Hmm. solution, right? Like something that I was like, they really care big. And Mm-hmm. I was like, if you're missing that, you're missing out, you're missing. You're missing that. You know, there's my daughter says to me, there is no planet B, mom. There is no planet Yeah, yeah. B, mom. I'm like, yeah, that's right. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. That's where I follow and get out of the way. I couldn't agree with that more. And what an opportunity to give to the citizens around you in your state to be a part of the system that is, or part of the solution, I should say, to make a real impact. What a great feeling for all those people involved, I bet. It's really cool. It's really cool to watch them pick, it's like Shark Tank. I invite other legislators Mm-hmm or other people in the community that are familiar with the process. And what's interesting enough is sometimes we find with these residents that it's not a piece of legislation they need. It's not. They need to, they just need to go and talk to their community liaison or they need to talk to, cause someone was like, what about the plastic bag thing? And I was like, wait a minute. We've already given permission for this. Now we need to, you gotta go talk to your council and say, ask them, are they willing to do this, take the step forward? Because this day, it is such a learning opportunity to see where folks head is, heads are, and then a chance for them to, it's fine. It's just a good time. It's just a good time. Yeah, you'll never get it if you don't ask. That's what I tell my kids. I think that's so an important part of this whole process is people need to know that there is a budget for certain things. There is availability of assets or services for certain things in the world that maybe you need as a person, as a family member, as a... as somebody who runs a small school out of their house, know, that, you know, there's grants for that. There's people that are willing to help you because you deserve it. And the government saw that or somebody before you invested in that as a, as a donor, you know, so that's, that's cool to see. And I couldn't agree with you more. Yeah. Thanks. Well, let's talk a little bit about packaging,~ extended producer responsibility. Is that something that you think could ever be national? Do you think that we could ever get all these states on the same page for that? kids did you hear that? just kidding. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I heard them. I heard them. They were there. Nah, know, Cory, I would hope so. I think the best case scenario is that we have a national solution, right? Mm-hmm. in the best case, there's instead of having states sort of puzzle and piece things together, I think that's the best case. But one thing I love about being in state government is like we pass legislation. Like Mm-hmm. we get to do that and it is such a challenge at the federal level. Just the way these United States are is we don't have a lot of expectation for them to pass legislation, right? Like other than a budget, an unbalanced one, because in Virginia we have to have a balanced budget every biennium or every I don't see it. That's why I just don't see it happening at the federal level, which is why I think these convenings are so important. I agree.~ But fingers crossed, my goal, at least to what I learned in, you know, going to see change and then having conversations with folks like you it is responsible of a policymaker like myself to have those conversations with those surrounding states to at least try to see where we could be on the same page and sort of walk forward in a way where we're doing no harm.~ Yeah. Because the harm is already happening because we're not doing. things like EPR. Right, right. And maybe the answer is not yet, right? And we hope that it can be, like you said, it could be a future possibility. But I think you're right. And I wish we could do it. If I had a magic wand, would say EPR, Yeah, means. boom, national, everybody's the same. Here you go. But it needs to start local and then it needs to start state and then. And then, like you said, we'll talk to the state next to you and elbow them and say, hey, this is what we're doing. It's working. I think I live in Oregon where we've kind of led in a lot of ways for these policies and kind of made a bunch of mistakes and learned from them. So I think there are states that are saying, Thank you. yeah, yeah, there are states that are saying, hey, let's just wait and see. And then when they've kind of got it ironed out, we'll do what they do. Do you feel like that? Yeah. Yeah, that's what I feel like. think the question I'm asking myself as I watch other states take these steps is like, yes, I believe that we have to shift responsibility for the life of a product after it's sold, right? How are they doing that? How do we reduce this unnecessary waste? Okay, look at how these folks are doing it. How do we create a system that works? not just in our place and place, look at you all, I'm watching you all do that. And my hope is that as states sort of get on board with that, that we create a system that is not fair to consumers, but local governments, the environments and industry. I think Mm-hmm. I know that it's possible. It's just a lot of tables, a lot of convening that needs to happen. over the coming years, but we're in a place where we're not, we don't have as much time as we think we do. I Yeah. live in a space and place where, you know, our landfills are going to be at capacity in the next 30 years. Yeah, that's tomorrow. Every time Yeah. I say it, my stomach sort of hurts a little bit. Yeah. So there's a lot of steps that we need to be taking. And my military background says, hey, this is a matter of national security because it is.~ Mm-hmm. It is urgent and important. It's just not as sexy as housing and criminal justice Right. and all these other, it's just not a sexy issue until it's a problem, Yeah. a bigger problem, right? Yeah, until it affects the people personally, maybe. That's a lot of the pushback I get from people outside of the packaging industry or not in politics just say, well, it doesn't bother me. They pick up my garbage. I don't worry about it. Whatever. But then there's people who are saying, this is a major problem. We got to fix it today. the whole scale is represented. Yeah, think, according to it's also to help people understand this is not, it's not a moral complaint, right? Mm-hmm. This is a discussion about design and a system. We have both a design and systems challenge here with how we've chosen to move forward with whether it's the single use packaging, whether it's bottles, like we genuinely have a challenge, a problem quite frankly here. So this is not just some, Yeah. I'm not out to just hugging a tree saying, you know, say that, you know, this moral complaint. This is real work that it just takes, I think it takes the right kind of people who are okay with not standing in the glows of certain types of work to be able to help move us forward. Yeah, that's it. And we got to connect the people that are doing the work with the people who need the work done. And like he said, we got to get the right people at the table to make an impact. Yeah. Yeah. I also see it as pro accountability, pro innovation. It's, it's, I don't want the businesses that are already doing, trying to do the right thing shouldn't be undercut by a system that leads to everybody that lets Yes. everybody else sort of externalize the cost of waste into local government and taxpayers. it's like holding in hands. It's a lot. It's, it takes a lot of, it's going to take a lot of folks to hold this in hand to walk us forward, but Mm-hmm. These sorts of things that we're doing, think are the crucial conversations, which hopefully will lead to the crucial actions collectively. Hmm. I love that. I'm an optimist and I really think that we can do it. Yeah! So let's stay positive here and thank you delegate Jackie Glass. Really appreciate your wisdom and all the hard work you're Gratitude. gratitude. doing. Thank you for your service both in the military and in politics. We appreciate you. Appreciate you, be well, be kind to yourself, drink water, you're a flower. A Thank you so much. living thing.