Feed Me Your Construction Content
Building a home is one of people's most significant investments and can be challenging. Feed Me Your Construction Content podcast aims to simplify the home-building process by providing valuable insights from experienced industry experts. Hosted by a homebuilder and lead designer, this podcast will cover everything from homebuilding basics to advanced construction techniques, design trends, and real-life case studies.
The podcast will also feature interviews with builders, architects, engineers, and other professionals in the industry, providing listeners with valuable tips and tricks to help them join the homebuilding industry. Whether you are a first-time home builder or an experienced professional looking to learn more, Feed Me Your Construction Content is the perfect podcast for anyone interested in homebuilding.
Key topics to be covered:
- The Basics of Homebuilding
- Common construction materials and techniques
- Design trends and styles
- Best practices for project management and budgeting
- Sustainable and energy-efficient building practices
- Building codes and regulations
- Interviews with industry professionals on their experiences and insights
- Career opportunities in the home-building industry
Target audience:
Feed Me Your Construction Content podcast targets anyone interested in homebuilding, including first-time homebuyers, DIY enthusiasts, and professionals in the construction industry looking to expand their knowledge. The podcast aims to be accessible to people of all backgrounds and experience levels, providing insights and tips for everyone interested in homebuilding.
"Feed Me Your Construction Content: Your go-to podcast for valuable insights and tips on homebuilding and joining the industry."
Feed Me Your Construction Content
Fostering Accountability for Better Construction Outcomes
We appreciate any and all feedback so feel free to send a text.
How do you keep your workforce motivated and engaged amid the relentless pressures of the job site? Discover the alarming trend of "quiet quitting" and its detrimental effects on workplace productivity. We'll share actionable strategies to recognize and combat disengagement, ensuring your team remains energetic and committed. Drawing on our Friday night reflections, we emphasize the urgency of addressing this issue now more than ever. Whether you're a veteran or a newcomer to the industry, this episode arms you with valuable insights to cultivate a collaborative and quality-focused environment in construction.
Carolyn can be found on LinkedIn at:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/carolyn-mcmahon-937b89158
Joshua can be found on LinkedIn at:
www.linkedin.com/in/joshuamcmahon15
Email for feedback, questions, complaints, etc:
mcmahonjoshua15@gmail.com
Daily Journal: https://amzn.to/41p9aKE
I love that. I love that.
Speaker 2:Hey y'all, Welcome back to another episode of Feed Me your Construction Content. I'm Carolyn McMahon.
Speaker 1:I'm Joshua McMahon.
Speaker 2:Boo, it's a Friday.
Speaker 1:And it's been a hell of a week. Hell of a week Like this is the kind of week that, for a sober person, you want to start drinking again. Right, you know what I'm talking about. Well, maybe you don't, because you're not sober, but my sobriety is on the line.
Speaker 2:Jesus, that makes it sound like I have a problem.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't call it a problem.
Speaker 2:And I don't. I am such a cheap date.
Speaker 1:You don't drink at all, which made it difficult for me to drink, so it was easy to quit which made it difficult for me to drink, so it was easy to quit, Exactly.
Speaker 1:So this week's episode. Well, you know, this week, you know we're still punching out a house and we're coming home and I'm telling you some stories about different things that we've encountered and just frustrations that I'm having with the industry and with this house in specific and with this house in specific. And you came up with a great idea and you were just talking about, you know, what do people do when things aren't right? How do we handle it?
Speaker 2:Well, I think my comment to get the ball rolling was how long and at what point is someone just beat down so much that they no longer talk about issues, have an opinion, they don't want to voice anything, and I'm like, hmm, is this just system, like we systematically beat you down so you no longer have an opinion and no, or no longer feel safe to you know, talk about your opinions about something.
Speaker 1:It's true. I think there's a lot of cultures, a lot of companies that look, your hand is slapped if you get out of line. Hey, drink the Kool-Aid. Don't make your own Kool-Aid, don't shake the thing up, just drink it. It's good the way it is.
Speaker 2:Right. So then you had a comment about an installer on your job. I did.
Speaker 1:It was great. He told my superintendent. He said, hey, I just installed the cabinets. I don't tell you what's wrong with things. And I said to the superintendent I said that's a great perspective from that individual. We'll never use them again when these two jobs are done. You'll never see that guy on our jobs ever again.
Speaker 2:Right. So you know, perhaps this guy is a good installer. Not a chance, okay, not a chance.
Speaker 1:He's a prima donna. He thinks he walks on water, but I watched him. He didn't walk on any water.
Speaker 2:And that's hard. And even if you are amazing and you have this chip on your shoulder, I would still think that what lies beneath right can still change the way your product is installed. So Josh and I worked for a builder years ago. I was the vendor.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's right, and you worked for the builder.
Speaker 2:Yep Barry Borden.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man.
Speaker 2:Barry Borden and he and the company that they worked for did. It's called First Time Quality.
Speaker 1:That's exactly what it was.
Speaker 2:And essentially the trades would grade the sub trade before us.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's right, and grade yourself.
Speaker 2:And grade yourself and I mean and listen, this was brilliant. You didn't get paid until you turned that shit in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it was on a five point scale. You had to grade the cleanliness and you had to grade kind of like, was the job ready for you? Yeah, and it was on a five-point scale. You had to grade the cleanliness and you had to grade, kind of like, was the job ready for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, job readiness, certain things you know when you set cabinets. Is the plumbing in your way Is the electrical in your way. What's something near and dear to Josh's heart Cleanouts, right. So then you had to grade them.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's right.
Speaker 2:And then you're even grading things. Like you know, when you install cabinets, they're level, whether your shit's level or not. That's the goal, right yeah.
Speaker 1:So if the slab's not level, the floor's not level, your cabinets are dead nuts. Level Period.
Speaker 2:If your wall isn't plumb well, so be it. We're gonna put lots and lots of shims.
Speaker 1:We're gonna make it oh yeah, the cabinets have to be. I don't want to say perfect, because you all know I don't like that word, but cabinets are pretty damn close to perfect right because they set the stage for lots of other things and so, while the process was frustrating, I actually applauded their efforts.
Speaker 2:I think that they weren't trying to figure out a convenient way not to pay you but it some vendors maybe, but I think it was a. Really it had a good base, the reasoning behind it.
Speaker 1:The original intentions were good From the builder side.
Speaker 2:the builder absolutely used it as a means of not paying people.
Speaker 1:The company's out of business so I can share the dirt now. I mean, it was bad. I learned a lot of bad things about being a builder back then, but I love the system. I love the first time quality idea because you'd grade each other and it was a means of not throwing each other under the bus. But just how do we get better right? The need for constant improvement was there.
Speaker 2:Right and as a vendor, you would get your report card essentially. Exactly, and we would all be. You know we would have. I don't know if they were monthly or quarterly meetings.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And, like you're the prom person or whatever, the POC would be there and we would talk about it. But anyway, so it did foster for me a good relationship with everyone else on the job.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it depends on your attitude and how you approached it. Sure, and that was kind of the thing, because some people, if you didn't have, maybe, a high road leadership style, you didn't see the best in people and you only thought that people are out to get you. Then you felt like that system was another means of just tearing each other down.
Speaker 2:Sure. So yes, you had to embrace it in the most positive light. So when you said that comment about that cabinet installer it's not my job made me think about that, but it just made me think of how many times, or maybe he started off. Hey, you know, I, my cabinets need to be level for the countertops. Your floor is so way at a level. I mean, shoe molding won't even cover the gap. You know that kind of thing because it's expensive to come back Right.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:And so you know it's just a systematic beat down. And then you know at what point did he say F it? I'm going to do my job, get in the truck and leave.
Speaker 1:Well, and look at, that attitude works today because we don't have enough labor to go around, so people are willing to tolerate that. That will not be the case forever and you know, we'll see. We'll see how it all shakes out, but I don't know. I don't know what it takes for you to get to that point, because when I was installing cabinets I was on a job it was kind of a senior living community type of thing and we're installing wall cabinets that go to the soffit and then, with a little piece of bed crown or bed molding.
Speaker 1:It's like a little baby crown is what it looks like. Yeah, soffit crown, soffit crown, and that's how you're going to cap it. So when you would install that type of cabinet, you would install, say, half an inch down or three quarters of an inch down, so you have enough room to nail your soffit crown to the cabinet, and then it would touch the soffit. Well, after four feet, whatever half inch or whatever I had, it was gone. My cabinets were buried into the soffit. The soffit was that out of level. So after half a day of playing with this, I took all the boxes down, I set them all in the thing. I said hey, superintendent, you got a big problem. Man, that soffit is way out of level, I can't install it. He said install your cabinets out of level, just install them with the soffit. I can't do that. The customer, even though they might be on the senior side and might not be able to see as well, they're going to see this is a problem and I can't do that.
Speaker 2:Or you know what's funny is okay great. You install them at a level and sometimes you can look at something you can't quite put your finger on what the hell's wrong with it. You just know that something's wrong. Oh, enter the backsplash and then you would be able to see it as sure as shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right and then what do you do?
Speaker 2:but you know, and what's funny is that, was that my job? No, that was someone else's. That wasn't, that was amy's job thank god, because I I think you left.
Speaker 1:You're like, I can't like I left, I left the superintendent if you don't install it, then I'll find somebody else to do it. And I said, okay, good luck, I packed up my tools, I lost the day, I lost money that day. But to just install it knowing that it's wrong, it just didn't make sense to me with my background. So I don't know what gets people to that point where they just say F it. I'm just here, I'm going to sling my cabinets, I'm going to make my money and I'm on to the next one.
Speaker 2:Right, and it's not limited to just construction by any means.
Speaker 1:My God no.
Speaker 2:I mean, I was having a conversation with someone and we were going over a plan and I was asking for an opinion, like, look, I'm not a lighting expert. I know that where I'd want lights in the ceiling because I'm going blind, but that's a size point and I'm like tell me your opinion.
Speaker 2:You know you do electrical plans all the time, you know things like that. And he's like well, you know just whatever you want to do. And it was over and over. Like I'm asking for his opinion, I need his input. I try not to be an ask hole.
Speaker 1:Right, yes, ask holes are the worst.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God.
Speaker 1:Do y'all know what an ask hole is? That's the person that asks for your opinion on something and then goes and does the complete opposite, because they already know what they want to do. They're just curious what you would say, and it just makes you feel really dirty and you're like why did you waste your time asking me if you're just gonna do what?
Speaker 2:you wanted anyways my time. So anyway, I I don't think I'm gonna ask cole and not always.
Speaker 2:Not always, but he was just like no, you know, just just whatever you want to do. And I looked at him and I said, man, how long did it take, yeah. And he's like how long did it take for what? It's like, how long did it take us to beat you? He's like, how long did it take for what? I was like how long did it take us to beat you down where you no longer have an opinion about stuff? And he just kind of looked at me it's like you know well enough, said you just whatever. And and then. And then I felt kind of defeated because you know how. You know I'm not going to impress him anymore, but but it happens. I mean, the joke is that I've always told my boss that the day that I don't say anything is a problem.
Speaker 1:I mean that's right, that's how we're wired.
Speaker 2:Right. We have weekly meeting and go over sales and marketing and then, where every job is, and at the end of the production, end of the the production report, we go around the table. You know, anybody got anything right? And everybody's like good, good, good, good. And they get to me and they pause. Every week I have something to say and that's it's become the running joke and I'm like nope, I'm good. And they're like what? All good, all good.
Speaker 1:But it's all good, you're still happy.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. It's just fun to shake them up a little bit.
Speaker 1:Keep them on their toes Right.
Speaker 2:No, I'm not interviewing, I'm not. You know, I don't come in with my power suit on.
Speaker 1:Well, something interesting that we introduced this week. We do a daily huddle, but we always would do a stuck like anybody have any stucks, and so we weren't getting a lot of feedback. We weren't getting a lot of stucks. And I'm like, well, hey, it sounds like you're stuck on this. Why didn't that come up in the huddle so we could help you? It's like, well, I didn't think it was a stuck, so we've introduced now IRCs. So issues, roadblocks and complications I think that's the.
Speaker 1:C, so you kind of get three different buckets and it just kind of maybe opens the door for more things, because maybe I'm not stuck, but maybe it's an issue that we need to just talk through, maybe it's something we encountered in the field and it's like hey, I'm seeing this, anybody else seeing it? Because maybe it's a trade issue, maybe it's a purchasing issue, maybe it's a supply chain issue. So just kind of opening the floor for those things, because the reality is everybody's not good. You can't be. If you are, then you're not doing everything. You're not doing anything, right, I mean you're just going through the motions, collecting your check.
Speaker 2:But if it's not truly a stuck or a roadblock, you still feel like you've got to talk about those challenges.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because if it's something that's going to take somebody more than five minutes to resolve on their own, then they're spending too much time on it, or it's something that maybe isn't their genius or something that they're not good at or comfortable with. Hey, bring it up, because we've got some really smart people around that table, just like you do. Bring it up because somebody on the other side might be able to say, yeah, you're in production and I'm in design, but I know that answer. Here's what I would do. And somebody else is like that's a great perspective. I didn't think about that. You're looking at it from different angles. That's what makes companies great. So the work from home I'm a fan of work from home, but the problem with it is you can't collaborate with your counterparts, because we all know Teams is great and Zoom is great, but no, it sucks. Being in person and talking through things, you can solve really high-level problems quickly, and I think that's why it's important to not everybody's good. You're just going with the motion, but that's not good enough.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So let's keep leaning into this thing. So I'm a big fan of the first time quality system. And how does that work? The big thing is your walks walking the house, communication, looking for things wrong. A big part of that walk is what are you doing If the cabinets were just installed the day before or they're being installed? Look at the way the cabinets are being installed. Do you see anything that sticks out? I'm not saying you go micromanage the way they're doing it. You go challenges, means and methods, but if you see something that's out of line, right, what is it?
Speaker 2:See something, say something.
Speaker 1:So you got to bring that stuff up.
Speaker 2:And that's really the intent of first time quality. No man, I like for you to do it a hundred percent and then say something to you you know, and that's how most of them do it, right?
Speaker 1:I mean, that's how a lot of people will do it is they're like, well, I'm gonna wait until they're done and then I'm gonna go pick them apart. Well, I like to walk it and I like to observe. See what you're doing. Take, take a look at things and I'm like something looks off with that. Is it the wall? Is something wrong with the wall? How do we fix that? I don't want to get in your way, but I don't want to slow you down either.
Speaker 2:All right, and again you go back to that. You're building to a standard.
Speaker 1:Correct.
Speaker 2:You know all walls, not all walls. Some walls are imperfect and some Walls, not all walls. Some walls are imperfect and some you can deal with because they're with intolerance.
Speaker 1:That's right, but if you catch it while they're installing it, you might be able to solve the problem with them, because these installers most of them who've been doing it for a long time they're really smart, they know the tricks. They've dealt with walls that are out of plumb, they've dealt with floors that are out of level. They know how to cheat things and make it look really good well, within tolerance and to where it's not an issue. You need to help them work through that and you'll learn from it too, so that's why I'm a fan of it. So, yeah, I'm a fan of walking through the house and doing kind of like pop-ins and just checking on things and looking how it's going and how it's progressing, because it also helps you with your schedule.
Speaker 2:Well, right, like we talked about that big repair on your job, where just the? Was it the joists?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yep, they were three-quarters of an out. They were out.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yep.
Speaker 2:And it was even marked on the joists where they needed to cut it down right.
Speaker 1:Well, let's talk through that, because that's really kind of. The gist of this episode is that that floor was three quarters of an inch out of level. That's not even close to being intolerance. The framer started the mistake. The drywall guy hey, you know, they don't care, they're just hanging and finishing. They probably could have seen it and said something.
Speaker 1:The flooring installer definitely could have seen it and said something. The trim carpenter definitely saw it and could have said something, because you can clearly tell something's off as you're installing your trim. And on this side I'm half an inch off the floor. On this side I'm sitting on the floor. Oh, there's a problem. The painter potentially the cabinet person for sure could have said something, because they shimmed their cabinets three quarters of an inch in a 36 inch span. Not one person said anything through that entire process until the homeowner said I think you're off by three quarters of an inch and I'm like how do you see that? I go out there and look at it. I'm like I don't see what he's talking about. Everything looks good, everything looks level, it looks fine. And then you look at the cabinet and you can see it running downhill and you're like how did nobody see this and no, not one single person say anything.
Speaker 2:Well, and it's funny because once you saw that, then you saw the baseboard molding. Oh my God, you saw that the door yes, it was, you know, sitting flush at the top.
Speaker 2:Like you couldn't see it at the top. But then you saw that there you know, the light pouring in from the door. When it was closed, the door was completely out, yes, and then you just I mean, at that point you can't unsee it. And then then you over, you're like, oh my God, I think I'm actually shifting, I feel it's going downhill. But all of those essentially cover-ups, and I mean, like you said, it was a nasty repair. I think that you handled it in a way that really mitigated a lot of damage Because, like you said, you were ready to just rip it all out and then you just took a, took a bin, it took a beat right and and like let's open up the ceiling and let's figure this out well that that was exactly what we did.
Speaker 1:I mean because instantly I was like, okay, we're gonna drop the nuke right here and then we're gonna rebuild the whole thing. And then it was like, okay, let's, let's go piece by piece. And I'm like, okay, I think this is the idea, this is how we're going to do it. And I would try and sell everybody on it. And people are like you're crazy, you can't do it. And I'm like, okay, well, let's try it, let's start here. Okay, that worked. Okay, now we're going to do this. Okay, now we of effort to correct it.
Speaker 1:And if we would have done something different earlier on the moment, somebody would have seen something. What do you do? You stop, drop and roll. No, no, that's the wrong thing. You stop what you're doing and you communicate. Hey, we got a problem. And as we uncovered this this is what's super frustrating the customer said I told the superintendent at the time that wall looks like it's out of level. And the superintendent said oh, yeah, we'll fix it in the framing punch. And as we opened that wall up, the line was drawn on the wall where the framer was to cut it.
Speaker 2:Ouch.
Speaker 1:That's incompetence at the highest level. Yes, that superintendent was fired seven months ago, so anyone who questioned me on my firing that individual, here's another big reason why he was fired.
Speaker 2:Well, wow, but wow, I mean. So seven months, so you just found it three weeks ago.
Speaker 1:That's right. Well, we found it like eight weeks ago, but the project manager who was tasked with getting that job over the finish line continued to blow off the customer and say, he's crazy, it's intolerance, there's no problems. And we said, hey, get a level on it, what's the industry standard? I'm doing all that stuff from the office and finally, after getting blown up with messages, I'm like I'm going to go out there and look at this, right.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah. And so again, once you saw it, you can't unsee it. But that, that whole thing about just you know, snowballing and no one willing to, you know, throw up the flag. Throw out the flag and say, hey, we've got a problem. And you know, I'm just, I'm intrigued by that, you know, because most people when they get that way, they move on.
Speaker 1:Well, I think it's an industry problem. I think and it's not just the industry, it's an American problem, it's us America, it's the Walmart approach to doing things. I want it for as cheap as I can get it, and I want it right now, and then I want it to be perfect. Oh, but see, you can't have the quality piece you have to. No, no, no, this is the American way. I want it. I want time, I want quality.
Speaker 2:And I want it cheaply, right and.
Speaker 1:I want it cheap. I want all three pieces of that triangle.
Speaker 2:Our friend Ken Moody said that it's like no, you can have two out of three. Pick it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can have two or three. The higher the quality, the longer it's going to take you to do it. The longer it's going to take you to do it, the more money it's going to take to do it Right. It's a triangle, so you have three sides of a triangle that are equal lengths.
Speaker 2:The less expensive it is, the faster you can do it, the lower the quality Right. So it's truly pick your poison.
Speaker 1:I don't make the rules. You want a high quality home. It's going to take time to do it and it's going to cost money. The builder's not making money hand over fist. We're not backing up Brinks trucks. Our margins are extremely tight and they're tight because we're making careless mistakes and because we're not communicating and we're not speaking up when we see problems, and that's our trade partners along with us. We're not communicating and we're not speaking up when we see problems, and that's our trade partners along with us. We're not going to catch everything, but as you're installing something and you see something wrong, you've got to speak up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that whole partner part about being a trusted trade and advocate for your business.
Speaker 1:It's huge. I mean, I always joke about it. Trade partners, it's not just a term we use to get better pricing. We value you and it, my company, that that we manage. We value our trade partners deeply. They're no different than an interior internal employee I agree they're the backbone of our business.
Speaker 1:they're the backbone of every business. Because I don't put any work in place, I'm not earning any money for the business. None of us are, unless you've got tool bags on. You're not earning money for the business. Nobody's paying for your intellectual knowledge as a home builder. They're paying for you to get the damn house built. Well, who's building the house? Your trades. So we need to lean into them and we need to respect them and we need to ask them to please speak up, don, and we need to respect them and we need to ask them to please speak up. Don't do something wrong. Let me pay for a dry run. Let me pay for something else, because it's going to be a hell of a lot cheaper than redoing it at the end.
Speaker 2:Right. I think we just need to reestablish that, especially for trades who have been there for a long time, I mean.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:They need it just as much as the new guys.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's exactly right. We're sharing the vision of our company with our internal staff. We need to be sharing the vision with our trades and telling them this is where we're going, this is what's important to us, this is what we need from you to be successful, and if we're successful, you're going to continue to be successful.
Speaker 2:Right, so in close.
Speaker 1:Don't install over bad work. Here's my rule before we go to the closing. If you install over top of bad work, you have now purchased the bad work that's right, you own it.
Speaker 2:That was a whole. That was another part about the first time quality yes is that if, if there, if you go ahead and install it and someone busts you on it later like why did you install that? And you know something completely out of level or whatever, and they're like, oh well, it's this, it's the framer and the drywall, blah, blah, blah. It's like sorry you didn't bring it to our attention, it's, it's now your fault.
Speaker 1:That's right, because because then what you want is you want to get paid to remove it, then you want to get paid to reinstall it, and that is not the way it works. You installed work over bad work, which created more bad work. You've got to remove it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So everyone else is going to do it. And then you know, you hope that your relationship with the vendors at least provides you with like. Hey, man, you know, be gentle on me. But yeah, that that was another piece. I forgot about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's a critical component because, just like this example here you got a vanity installed. The plumbers come, the people have come and done the mirrors. All that had to be ripped out.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, who's going to pay to have it reinstalled? Why do I pay to have it reinstalled?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the builder right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I can never wrap my head around that.
Speaker 1:Like I don't have enough money in my margins, like my margins are a tenth of what the trades margins are exactly. Then they get to slap you with a vpo right, and then I'm being penalized for your bad work like no, how about this? Everybody fixes their own shit and that's what you want to do in that scenario. Look, I don't want to back charge anybody. I want anybody back charge anybody. Everybody needs to step up. Let's make this thing go away and move on. It's a bad scenario for everybody involved. We need it done.
Speaker 2:All right, so in close, can you see I'm trying to enjoy my Friday night.
Speaker 1:You want to be off the air. Well, I think this was good, babe. I think you brought a lot of energy to this topic. I'm excited about you coming up with this idea because you said it as I just sat down, I just ate dinner and I was like I'm ready for an easy night, and then you said this and I was like we need to get on the mics. This is perfect.
Speaker 2:Yes, so if your people are quiet, worry.
Speaker 1:They're quiet quitting. They're quiet, quitting they're quiet quitting, they're quiet quitting and you're just continuing to pay for them.
Speaker 2:Until next time.
Speaker 1:See ya yeah.
