{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":5.7,"endTime":8.67,"body":"Hey, it's John"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":5.7,"endTime":8.67,"body":"Willis here again, in profound"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":8.67,"endTime":11.25,"body":"and I've got a I think this is"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":8.67,"endTime":11.25,"body":"the first time I've had a"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":11.25,"endTime":15.09,"body":"second. A repeat guest I got I"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":11.25,"endTime":15.09,"body":"have to go back and look at him."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":15.09,"endTime":19.56,"body":"I think you are the first repeat"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":15.09,"endTime":19.56,"body":"guests and Glenn was we were"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":19.56,"endTime":23.04,"body":"just having as we have these"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":19.56,"endTime":23.04,"body":"great conversations over"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":23.04,"endTime":27.54,"body":"LinkedIn now used to be Twitter,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":23.04,"endTime":27.54,"body":"it's LinkedIn. 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I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":320.01,"endTime":323.16,"body":"always felt that there were, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":323.16,"endTime":327.3,"body":"know, I'd say with no disrespect"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":323.16,"endTime":327.3,"body":"to the large lean community for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":327.3,"endTime":331.65,"body":"I guess, people, like me, or,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":327.3,"endTime":331.65,"body":"you know, people have coming to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":331.65,"endTime":334.68,"body":"this idea when we come into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":331.65,"endTime":334.68,"body":"DevOps first, and then realize"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":334.71,"endTime":338.43,"body":"it all begins with lean back to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":334.71,"endTime":338.43,"body":"that mean, but we can hold that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":338.43,"endTime":343.05,"body":"off a little bit. 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But there are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":380.43,"endTime":382.53,"body":"only two books you need to read."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":383.04,"endTime":385.59,"body":"You know, they really set the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":383.04,"endTime":385.59,"body":"stage for the foundation and in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":385.59,"endTime":388.26,"body":"the real world, which Spirit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":385.59,"endTime":388.26,"body":"does. And then when you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":388.26,"endTime":390.99,"body":"mentioned Katie's book, I think,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":388.26,"endTime":390.99,"body":"you know, there really hasn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":390.99,"endTime":395.55,"body":"been any new books on lean, at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":390.99,"endTime":395.55,"body":"least from my perspective. 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And I just, I wonder"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":432.72,"endTime":434.55,"body":"like, could you appreciate, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":432.72,"endTime":434.55,"body":"know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":435.75,"endTime":439.02,"body":"would you appreciate it as much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":435.75,"endTime":439.02,"body":"as we did? 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And so we had these ideas."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":451.8,"endTime":457.5,"body":"And I think reading Katie's book"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":457.5,"endTime":460.86,"body":"gave me the opportunity then to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":457.5,"endTime":460.86,"body":"to experience those books in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":460.86,"endTime":464.58,"body":"different way. Having already"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":460.86,"endTime":464.58,"body":"read them. It is actually in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":464.58,"endTime":467.49,"body":"some respects, it is similar to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":464.58,"endTime":467.49,"body":"reading the Phoenix Project, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":467.49,"endTime":470.4,"body":"the unicorn project, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":467.49,"endTime":470.4,"body":"they tell a story. Yeah. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":470.4,"endTime":472.5,"body":"think that's what's important is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":470.4,"endTime":472.5,"body":"that they're these books that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":472.5,"endTime":476.43,"body":"tell stories, as opposed to just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":472.5,"endTime":476.43,"body":"telling you how it is. They're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":476.43,"endTime":480.39,"body":"telling you, you know, from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":476.43,"endTime":480.39,"body":"firsthand accounts, okay. To"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":480.39,"endTime":482.97,"body":"fictional books, no, but this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":480.39,"endTime":482.97,"body":"book is no, no, no, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":482.97,"endTime":486.87,"body":"a good point. Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":482.97,"endTime":486.87,"body":"I've, you know, I've always told"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":486.87,"endTime":489.66,"body":"people, you know, if you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":486.87,"endTime":489.66,"body":"read the goal first, then read"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":489.66,"endTime":493.05,"body":"the finished project. But, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":489.66,"endTime":493.05,"body":"know, a majority of the people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":493.05,"endTime":496.77,"body":"read The Venus Project, did not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":493.05,"endTime":496.77,"body":"read the goal. Right. And they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":496.77,"endTime":499.23,"body":"love the book. So yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":496.77,"endTime":499.23,"body":"good point. All right. They"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":499.23,"endTime":502.59,"body":"just, like if you're listening,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":499.23,"endTime":502.59,"body":"and you can, if you can take the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":502.59,"endTime":505.44,"body":"time, if you haven't read all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":502.59,"endTime":505.44,"body":"three books. Definitely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":505.44,"endTime":508.71,"body":"suggestion would be do it in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":505.44,"endTime":508.71,"body":"that order. But like, certainly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":508.71,"endTime":514.14,"body":"a great book. Back to the trip"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":508.71,"endTime":514.14,"body":"to Japan, I took, it was about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":514.14,"endTime":517.32,"body":"three summers ago, I took my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":514.14,"endTime":517.32,"body":"family to Japan, I forced him"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":518.25,"endTime":521.64,"body":"to, you know, oh, God, come on,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":518.25,"endTime":521.64,"body":"we're like, we went into the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":521.64,"endTime":525.63,"body":"Mazda plant. When we were in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":521.64,"endTime":525.63,"body":"here, she and then we went to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":525.66,"endTime":528.81,"body":"Toyota City, you know, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":525.66,"endTime":528.81,"body":"they knew that was coming. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":528.81,"endTime":531.87,"body":"squeezed in the Mazda plant, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":528.81,"endTime":531.87,"body":"know, but they all like, sort"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":531.87,"endTime":535.11,"body":"of, like, they were screaming an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":531.87,"endTime":535.11,"body":"hour and, and then after, it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":535.11,"endTime":538.77,"body":"like that, that was really cool."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":535.11,"endTime":538.77,"body":"You know, but, but it was your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":538.77,"endTime":541.35,"body":"point. We were talking he was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":538.77,"endTime":541.35,"body":"talking about like it is it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":541.35,"endTime":545.46,"body":"really cool. To see, like the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":541.35,"endTime":545.46,"body":"can be the you know, like, get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":545.46,"endTime":549.51,"body":"the real picture of what a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":545.46,"endTime":549.51,"body":"Kanban board really does. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":549.51,"endTime":552.51,"body":"exactly. You know, rather than"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":549.51,"endTime":552.51,"body":"just reading about it, yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":552.87,"endTime":556.17,"body":"opportunity to experience it to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":552.87,"endTime":556.17,"body":"actually see it firsthand and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":556.17,"endTime":559.95,"body":"see how people react to it. And,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":556.17,"endTime":559.95,"body":"and there's lots of other terms"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":559.95,"endTime":563.43,"body":"as well, you know, like, just in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":559.95,"endTime":563.43,"body":"time delivery and how that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":563.43,"endTime":565.77,"body":"works, which is part of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":563.43,"endTime":565.77,"body":"Kanban process. And then you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":565.89,"endTime":571.23,"body":"have this idea of Kemba Kaizen"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":565.89,"endTime":571.23,"body":"gamba, where, you know, people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":571.23,"endTime":572.91,"body":"observe what happens. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":574.08,"endTime":578.07,"body":"I'm a big fan of a guy called"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":574.08,"endTime":578.07,"body":"Jens Rasmussen and he talks"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":578.07,"endTime":578.61,"body":"about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":582.12,"endTime":586.14,"body":"how you need to look at our work"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":582.12,"endTime":586.14,"body":"in different ways. So you got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":586.23,"endTime":589.23,"body":"you've got work, as seen and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":586.23,"endTime":589.23,"body":"work as done."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":590.25,"endTime":594.45,"body":"Workers describe the work as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":590.25,"endTime":594.45,"body":"prescribed and I think what you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":594.45,"endTime":596.76,"body":"know, I'm hoping to get to see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":594.45,"endTime":596.76,"body":"it go and see workers seen"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":596.76,"endTime":599.97,"body":"rather than workers described,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":596.76,"endTime":599.97,"body":"and I think that's it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":600.0,"endTime":603.63,"body":"That's gonna add a little bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":600.0,"endTime":603.63,"body":"more value to my experience and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":603.69,"endTime":607.53,"body":"and how I approached DevOps, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":603.69,"endTime":607.53,"body":"guess, and DevStack ops."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":608.82,"endTime":611.67,"body":"As, you know, as I move forward,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":608.82,"endTime":611.67,"body":"so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":612.75,"endTime":614.91,"body":"good to say, I think is,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":616.26,"endTime":619.2,"body":"you know, it's a great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":616.26,"endTime":619.2,"body":"opportunity to go and see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":619.29,"endTime":623.91,"body":"something which I've, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":619.29,"endTime":623.91,"body":"spicy for a long time. And, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":623.91,"endTime":627.51,"body":"know, Katie has been a great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":623.91,"endTime":627.51,"body":"opportunity for me to go and do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":627.51,"endTime":631.62,"body":"this. So yeah, I'm looking at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":627.51,"endTime":631.62,"body":"that. That was the so one port"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":631.62,"endTime":634.92,"body":"tour guide, right? She was, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":631.62,"endTime":634.92,"body":"know, I was just hammering her,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":634.92,"endTime":638.43,"body":"you know, politely but, and she"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":634.92,"endTime":638.43,"body":"really kept her ground. Right."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":638.43,"endTime":641.1,"body":"But she wasn't like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":638.43,"endTime":641.1,"body":"first she had to, you know, she"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":641.1,"endTime":644.22,"body":"was, you know, native Japanese,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":641.1,"endTime":644.22,"body":"but she spoke perfect English."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":644.22,"endTime":647.07,"body":"But I was asking all these, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":644.22,"endTime":647.07,"body":"know, like, you could imagine,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":647.07,"endTime":649.65,"body":"I'm like, a kid in the candy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":647.07,"endTime":649.65,"body":"store, you know, what is that?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":649.65,"endTime":653.16,"body":"How come that you know? And she"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":649.65,"endTime":653.16,"body":"answered about 35 40% of my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":653.16,"endTime":656.64,"body":"questions, you know, but I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":653.16,"endTime":656.64,"body":"like, wow, wouldn't it be cool"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":656.64,"endTime":659.88,"body":"to do this tour? Or you could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":656.64,"endTime":659.88,"body":"ask all those questions with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":659.88,"endTime":663.78,"body":"somebody who knew the background"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":659.88,"endTime":663.78,"body":"of you know, I mean, she knew"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":663.81,"endTime":666.54,"body":"sort of background, but you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":663.81,"endTime":666.54,"body":"know, again, I was surprised"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.54,"endTime":669.51,"body":"that she did answer as many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.54,"endTime":669.51,"body":"questions. So I think that's,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":669.75,"endTime":673.11,"body":"you know, I came back and I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":669.75,"endTime":673.11,"body":"like, man, we should you get a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":673.14,"endTime":677.1,"body":"group of people and somebody who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":673.14,"endTime":677.1,"body":"is, can take you through the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":677.1,"endTime":682.77,"body":"tour, like, like, explain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":677.1,"endTime":682.77,"body":"everything in the context of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":682.8,"endTime":686.22,"body":"what we're exactly. So I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":682.8,"endTime":686.22,"body":"that's why I'm gonna go ahead"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":686.22,"endTime":687.51,"body":"and sign up probably today."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":689.43,"endTime":692.85,"body":"So you'll have a friend, Luis"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":689.43,"endTime":692.85,"body":"will know two people on the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":692.85,"endTime":696.36,"body":"tour. So that's going to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":692.85,"endTime":696.36,"body":"great. Oh, definitely, I'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":696.36,"endTime":699.63,"body":"think the stories as well, they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":696.36,"endTime":699.63,"body":"will."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":701.82,"endTime":705.87,"body":"be fantastic. So yeah, we'll go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":701.82,"endTime":705.87,"body":"ahead and pull the trigger on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":705.87,"endTime":711.06,"body":"the contract today. So one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":705.87,"endTime":711.06,"body":"the other things that came up,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":711.09,"endTime":715.62,"body":"we were going to talk about, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":711.09,"endTime":715.62,"body":"did a post about the difference"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":715.62,"endTime":722.25,"body":"between numerated and analytical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":715.62,"endTime":722.25,"body":"statistics. And, and so one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":722.25,"endTime":725.31,"body":"the things let me give you my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":722.25,"endTime":725.31,"body":"backdrop, you know, sometimes,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":725.91,"endTime":728.94,"body":"you know, as you know, writing,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":725.91,"endTime":728.94,"body":"you know, you have the sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":728.97,"endTime":731.82,"body":"like, what you learn, then what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":728.97,"endTime":731.82,"body":"you try to explain to yourself"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":731.82,"endTime":734.55,"body":"in your head, and then there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":731.82,"endTime":734.55,"body":"what you write about, well, then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":734.55,"endTime":737.58,"body":"is what you present. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":734.55,"endTime":737.58,"body":"it's what you write about right."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":737.58,"endTime":742.59,"body":"And each one is has a higher"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":737.58,"endTime":742.59,"body":"degree of difficulty. Right? You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":742.59,"endTime":745.08,"body":"know, what I can explain in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":742.59,"endTime":745.08,"body":"presentation, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":745.08,"endTime":749.46,"body":"sometimes when I try to write it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":745.08,"endTime":749.46,"body":"in, in a blog article, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":749.49,"endTime":752.64,"body":"I just wonder, did I just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":749.49,"endTime":752.64,"body":"actually get it is difficult."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":752.64,"endTime":757.26,"body":"Yeah. And so, um, so one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":752.64,"endTime":757.26,"body":"things that, you know, the thing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":757.26,"endTime":761.55,"body":"about Dr. Deming, is it really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":757.26,"endTime":761.55,"body":"is that sort of, you peel the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":761.55,"endTime":764.73,"body":"onion, you peel you just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":761.55,"endTime":764.73,"body":"constantly, you know, for those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":764.73,"endTime":767.01,"body":"who might get this reference,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":764.73,"endTime":767.01,"body":"it's like watching The Big"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":767.01,"endTime":771.09,"body":"Lebowski. Every time I watch it,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":767.01,"endTime":771.09,"body":"there's like, oh, wow, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":771.09,"endTime":775.86,"body":"catch that last time. And so I,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":771.09,"endTime":775.86,"body":"I know, he's been talking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":775.86,"endTime":778.8,"body":"like, he talked about throughout"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":775.86,"endTime":778.8,"body":"his whole career, this this idea"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":778.8,"endTime":783.27,"body":"about, you know, the difference"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":778.8,"endTime":783.27,"body":"between enumerated and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":783.27,"endTime":786.12,"body":"analytical analytical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":783.27,"endTime":786.12,"body":"statistics. And he actually made"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":786.12,"endTime":789.99,"body":"that definition. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":786.12,"endTime":789.99,"body":"there's a Ron Moen, who talked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":789.99,"endTime":793.53,"body":"about the first time he saw"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":789.99,"endTime":793.53,"body":"Deming lecture, it was with a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":793.53,"endTime":798.75,"body":"bunch of academic statisticians,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":793.53,"endTime":798.75,"body":"and he pissed them all off. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":798.75,"endTime":801.48,"body":"he said, because he was trying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":798.75,"endTime":801.48,"body":"to describe something called"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":801.48,"endTime":806.31,"body":"analytical statistics, and not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":801.48,"endTime":806.31,"body":"enumerated and, and so I know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":806.31,"endTime":809.07,"body":"like I saw it was on this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":806.31,"endTime":809.07,"body":"search. You know, with Deming,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":809.07,"endTime":812.31,"body":"there's these, like, you have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":809.07,"endTime":812.31,"body":"these like, thumbnails of like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":812.31,"endTime":814.92,"body":"okay, I want to learn more about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":812.31,"endTime":814.92,"body":"that, I want to learn more about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":814.92,"endTime":819.36,"body":"that, you know, and as you find"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":814.92,"endTime":819.36,"body":"time, you know, like management"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":819.36,"endTime":823.35,"body":"by means or you know, that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":819.36,"endTime":823.35,"body":"that, that subject or just a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":823.35,"endTime":826.23,"body":"list of things. So, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":823.35,"endTime":826.23,"body":"difference between enumerated"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":826.23,"endTime":829.35,"body":"and analytical has always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":826.23,"endTime":829.35,"body":"intrigued me. And,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":830.4,"endTime":834.12,"body":"and, and I thought I had a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":830.4,"endTime":834.12,"body":"pretty good grasp on explaining"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":834.12,"endTime":836.82,"body":"it. In fact, I had to go back"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":834.12,"endTime":836.82,"body":"and change the fourth draft"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":837.0,"endTime":841.44,"body":"book, after I had this, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":837.0,"endTime":841.44,"body":"other layer of understanding,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":841.59,"endTime":847.17,"body":"and it was Jay Blum, who was we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":841.59,"endTime":847.17,"body":"were at a customer site and, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":847.17,"endTime":849.9,"body":"he had in Chavis just a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":847.17,"endTime":849.9,"body":"brilliant young, really not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":849.9,"endTime":851.52,"body":"young, but he's younger than me."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":852.66,"endTime":857.85,"body":"And he basically started showing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":852.66,"endTime":857.85,"body":"me how to transpose statistical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":857.85,"endTime":861.69,"body":"process control charts with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":857.85,"endTime":861.69,"body":"distribution charts. And all of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":861.69,"endTime":865.17,"body":"a sudden, the light bulb went"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":861.69,"endTime":865.17,"body":"off, you know, showing like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":865.17,"endTime":868.53,"body":"what is this? And then he didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":865.17,"endTime":868.53,"body":"go into deep into the enumerator"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":868.53,"endTime":872.04,"body":"versus analytical, but just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":868.53,"endTime":872.04,"body":"being able to see in a transpose"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":872.07,"endTime":872.97,"body":"distribution"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":874.02,"endTime":878.88,"body":"chart over target like, Oh, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":874.02,"endTime":878.88,"body":"God, now I net now I get it. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":878.88,"endTime":882.33,"body":"get that the, you know, the one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":878.88,"endTime":882.33,"body":"last thing I'll say is,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":883.41,"endTime":887.07,"body":"so when I tried to explain it, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":883.41,"endTime":887.07,"body":"remember this quote that Deming"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":887.07,"endTime":889.77,"body":"had said something and I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":887.07,"endTime":889.77,"body":"mangling the quote, but he said,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":890.34,"endTime":894.75,"body":"It's not the statisticians job."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":890.34,"endTime":894.75,"body":"To answer the it's find the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":894.75,"endTime":898.65,"body":"problem. It's the citizens job"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":894.75,"endTime":898.65,"body":"to create the sort of data so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":898.65,"endTime":899.97,"body":"the subject matter experts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":900.0,"endTime":903.09,"body":"I could then go find the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":900.0,"endTime":903.09,"body":"problem. So even the subject"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":903.09,"endTime":905.1,"body":"matter expert, it doesn't answer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":903.09,"endTime":905.1,"body":"the question. So the ground"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":905.1,"endTime":908.79,"body":"expert, and I started playing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":905.1,"endTime":908.79,"body":"around with just some regular"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":910.469,"endTime":915.959,"body":"originally, like, I brought up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":910.469,"endTime":915.959,"body":"our and I installed an SPC"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":915.959,"endTime":920.369,"body":"package, and it had like piston"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":915.959,"endTime":920.369,"body":"rings and tolerance levels. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":920.369,"endTime":923.129,"body":"I started doing distribution"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":920.369,"endTime":923.129,"body":"charts and SPC charts. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":923.129,"endTime":926.759,"body":"like, Oh, my goodness, like, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":923.129,"endTime":926.759,"body":"can see the difference. Being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":926.759,"endTime":931.289,"body":"enumerator is the how many, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":926.759,"endTime":931.289,"body":"know, that sort of how many and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":931.889,"endTime":935.909,"body":"the the analytical, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":931.889,"endTime":935.909,"body":"statistics like, like control"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":935.909,"endTime":939.959,"body":"chart shows, like the why, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":935.909,"endTime":939.959,"body":"a trend or a pattern. And so I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":939.959,"endTime":944.189,"body":"posted that article, and I took"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":939.959,"endTime":944.189,"body":"some data from test driven"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":944.189,"endTime":949.199,"body":"development and container scans."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":944.189,"endTime":949.199,"body":"And I, you know, I had to munge"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":949.199,"endTime":952.259,"body":"the data a little bit to be, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":949.199,"endTime":952.259,"body":"know, to create the sort of the,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":952.709,"endTime":955.769,"body":"the narrative a little better,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":952.709,"endTime":955.769,"body":"but, but I was able to show"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":955.769,"endTime":959.669,"body":"like, like, for example, a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":955.769,"endTime":959.669,"body":"trending increase of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":960.81,"endTime":964.59,"body":"container scan failures in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":960.81,"endTime":964.59,"body":"distribution chart really didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":964.59,"endTime":968.31,"body":"tell me that, whereas I could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":964.59,"endTime":968.31,"body":"see the pattern of increasing in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":968.31,"endTime":973.68,"body":"a control chart. And so your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":968.31,"endTime":973.68,"body":"question of like, so what was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":973.68,"endTime":975.6,"body":"your question about that? If you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":973.68,"endTime":975.6,"body":"don't mind me?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":976.68,"endTime":978.93,"body":"Oh, my word. It put me on the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":976.68,"endTime":978.93,"body":"spot there. What was my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":978.93,"endTime":979.41,"body":"question?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":980.52,"endTime":983.73,"body":"Go ahead. Oh, yeah, I will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":980.52,"endTime":983.73,"body":"remember, when I read that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":983.73,"endTime":987.27,"body":"article, I remember thinking,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":983.73,"endTime":987.27,"body":"you know, how, how important it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":987.27,"endTime":989.97,"body":"is to actually understand what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":987.27,"endTime":989.97,"body":"data you have in front of you."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":989.97,"endTime":992.19,"body":"That was the thing that really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":989.97,"endTime":992.19,"body":"bothered me. And I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":992.19,"endTime":996.12,"body":"security is is a real, is an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":992.19,"endTime":996.12,"body":"industry that really doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":996.12,"endTime":997.89,"body":"understand statistics that much,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":996.12,"endTime":997.89,"body":"I think,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":999.48,"endTime":1001.67,"body":"I mean, how many times have we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":999.48,"endTime":1001.67,"body":"been faced with a situation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1001.67,"endTime":1007.4,"body":"where we were just presented so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1001.67,"endTime":1007.4,"body":"many 1000 vulnerabilities and go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1007.4,"endTime":1012.32,"body":"fix them at a point in time, a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1007.4,"endTime":1012.32,"body":"moment in time analysis, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1012.32,"endTime":1017.06,"body":"numeration, of what data we have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1012.32,"endTime":1017.06,"body":"there. But if he was to record"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1017.06,"endTime":1020.72,"body":"this over a period of time and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1017.06,"endTime":1020.72,"body":"understand the trends, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1020.72,"endTime":1022.88,"body":"understand the statistical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1020.72,"endTime":1022.88,"body":"control charts that you have,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1022.94,"endTime":1026.51,"body":"you can create through the trend"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1022.94,"endTime":1026.51,"body":"data, then you can actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1026.51,"endTime":1030.95,"body":"identify problems quicker. So if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1026.51,"endTime":1030.95,"body":"you start seeing an increase in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1030.98,"endTime":1033.8,"body":"vulnerabilities over a period of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1030.98,"endTime":1033.8,"body":"time, then that tells you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1033.8,"endTime":1038.42,"body":"something, if you find that your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1033.8,"endTime":1038.42,"body":"variation of not finding new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1038.42,"endTime":1041.6,"body":"vulnerabilities is within"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1038.42,"endTime":1041.6,"body":"statistical control, then that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1041.6,"endTime":1044.03,"body":"part of your system. That's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1041.6,"endTime":1044.03,"body":"that's that is something you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1044.06,"endTime":1047.12,"body":"have to accept. What we tend to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1044.06,"endTime":1047.12,"body":"do though, as an industry is as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1047.12,"endTime":1052.55,"body":"soon as we see the slightest"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1047.12,"endTime":1052.55,"body":"increase, jump on it. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1052.55,"endTime":1056.45,"body":"think Deming refers to those as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1052.55,"endTime":1056.45,"body":"common cause variation."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1057.77,"endTime":1060.62,"body":"And then when it drops down, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1057.77,"endTime":1060.62,"body":"celebrate we're here we've we've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1060.62,"endTime":1062.69,"body":"done really well. But actually,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1060.62,"endTime":1062.69,"body":"we're not doing well. And we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1062.69,"endTime":1064.79,"body":"not there because all we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1062.69,"endTime":1064.79,"body":"doing there is we're we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1064.79,"endTime":1068.9,"body":"working within the statistical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1064.79,"endTime":1068.9,"body":"statistical control. But then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1068.93,"endTime":1074.51,"body":"you might get the special case,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1068.93,"endTime":1074.51,"body":"or special cause scenarios where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1074.87,"endTime":1077.84,"body":"you perhaps do see more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1074.87,"endTime":1077.84,"body":"vulnerabilities. And then then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1077.84,"endTime":1080.48,"body":"you should, or you might start"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1077.84,"endTime":1080.48,"body":"seeing a trend that's going the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1080.48,"endTime":1083.72,"body":"wrong way. And you can start"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1080.48,"endTime":1083.72,"body":"picking that up very quickly and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1083.72,"endTime":1086.54,"body":"start to understand why that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1083.72,"endTime":1086.54,"body":"might be, as you say, it's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1086.69,"endTime":1090.02,"body":"statisticians job to do that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1086.69,"endTime":1090.02,"body":"The statistician is there to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1090.02,"endTime":1093.53,"body":"present the data is down to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1090.02,"endTime":1093.53,"body":"people working on those tools"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1093.53,"endTime":1096.14,"body":"and the products and doing the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1093.53,"endTime":1096.14,"body":"development actually work out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1096.14,"endTime":1099.5,"body":"why that happened, and start to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1096.14,"endTime":1099.5,"body":"think about how that might,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1101.39,"endTime":1103.82,"body":"you know, how it might might how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1101.39,"endTime":1103.82,"body":"that came about and try to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1103.91,"endTime":1107.69,"body":"resolve the problem. So that was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1103.91,"endTime":1107.69,"body":"my thinking, as I was reading"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1108.08,"endTime":1111.59,"body":"through and what I didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1108.08,"endTime":1111.59,"body":"understand. I thought I knew you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1111.59,"endTime":1115.49,"body":"well enough that you surprised"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1111.59,"endTime":1115.49,"body":"to think like, Oh, does he think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1115.49,"endTime":1118.13,"body":"this wouldn't work? But I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1115.49,"endTime":1118.13,"body":"your point, if I'm summarizing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1118.13,"endTime":1120.26,"body":"it, right, which was there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1118.13,"endTime":1120.26,"body":"gonna be hard, John,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1121.58,"endTime":1125.15,"body":"there's gonna be a memory"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1121.58,"endTime":1125.15,"body":"muscle. That yeah, and I get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1125.15,"endTime":1127.88,"body":"that, you know, yeah, that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1125.15,"endTime":1127.88,"body":"just talked about what I said."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1127.88,"endTime":1130.79,"body":"Yeah, I said, I said it will be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1127.88,"endTime":1130.79,"body":"is this is very difficult to do."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1130.79,"endTime":1133.88,"body":"Because yeah, I had this history"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1130.79,"endTime":1133.88,"body":"problem."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1135.98,"endTime":1139.07,"body":"Historical data, but you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1135.98,"endTime":1139.07,"body":"and particularly security to,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1139.07,"endTime":1142.01,"body":"right, it's even hard, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1139.07,"endTime":1142.01,"body":"let's face it, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1142.01,"endTime":1145.64,"body":"think, you know, if we look even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1142.01,"endTime":1145.64,"body":"at like, sort of observability"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1145.64,"endTime":1148.13,"body":"and I mean, it gives give"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1145.64,"endTime":1148.13,"body":"observability a little bit of a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1148.13,"endTime":1151.73,"body":"checkbox. But, but, but in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1148.13,"endTime":1151.73,"body":"general, the way we do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1151.73,"endTime":1154.37,"body":"monitoring, right is very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1151.73,"endTime":1154.37,"body":"enumerated, right, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1154.37,"endTime":1157.91,"body":"like this idea that's been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1154.37,"endTime":1157.91,"body":"around for 100 years, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1157.91,"endTime":1160.49,"body":"and, you know, interestingly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1157.91,"endTime":1160.49,"body":"enough, like I say, in my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1160.49,"endTime":1164.27,"body":"presentation, like, from, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1160.49,"endTime":1164.27,"body":"know, toasters to car"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1164.27,"endTime":1168.26,"body":"manufacturing, to nuclear power"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1164.27,"endTime":1168.26,"body":"plants, it works. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1168.26,"endTime":1171.95,"body":"and then there are the patterns,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1168.26,"endTime":1171.95,"body":"you know, it's like, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1171.95,"endTime":1175.01,"body":"think that, like, I've watched"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1171.95,"endTime":1175.01,"body":"some really, really smart"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1175.01,"endTime":1178.88,"body":"people, you know, try to explain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1175.01,"endTime":1178.88,"body":"Deming and just say, Well, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1178.88,"endTime":1182.06,"body":"know, it's either anomalies or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1178.88,"endTime":1182.06,"body":"whatnot. It's normal. Like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1182.06,"endTime":1185.42,"body":"really the data say that, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1182.06,"endTime":1185.42,"body":"know, because the truth is the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1185.42,"endTime":1188.75,"body":"anomalies which Deming would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1185.42,"endTime":1188.75,"body":"call special cause, like, these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1188.75,"endTime":1191.51,"body":"are things that are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1188.75,"endTime":1191.51,"body":"statistically normal, three"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1191.51,"endTime":1196.46,"body":"standard deviations above the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1191.51,"endTime":1196.46,"body":"mean, in general. There are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1196.46,"endTime":1199.97,"body":"different ways to do this, of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1196.46,"endTime":1199.97,"body":"course, but But um,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1200.0,"endTime":1204.08,"body":"Um, you know, like, those are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1200.0,"endTime":1204.08,"body":"actually less interesting is the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1204.08,"endTime":1205.46,"body":"stuff that happens within,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1206.569,"endTime":1211.339,"body":"you know, in the upper and lower"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1206.569,"endTime":1211.339,"body":"control limits were like, eight"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1211.339,"endTime":1214.219,"body":"different parallel, depending on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1211.339,"endTime":1214.219,"body":"the school of thought, but eight"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1214.219,"endTime":1217.729,"body":"different patterns, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1214.219,"endTime":1217.729,"body":"and the easiest ones to one is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1217.729,"endTime":1220.399,"body":"the one inside of a blog article"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1217.729,"endTime":1220.399,"body":"like increasing or decreasing."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1221.089,"endTime":1224.239,"body":"You know, like, like, for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1221.089,"endTime":1224.239,"body":"example, like the, why, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1224.239,"endTime":1227.689,"body":"know, the example that came up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1224.239,"endTime":1227.689,"body":"with it, which is the increased"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1227.689,"endTime":1232.879,"body":"in security container scans."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1227.689,"endTime":1232.879,"body":"And, you know, doing some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1232.879,"endTime":1235.819,"body":"analysis, like the subject"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1232.879,"endTime":1235.819,"body":"matter expert, allowed to go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1235.819,"endTime":1239.779,"body":"find out that could be was they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1235.819,"endTime":1239.779,"body":"increased, a new development"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1239.779,"endTime":1242.809,"body":"team came on board, they didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1239.779,"endTime":1242.809,"body":"know, they were supposed to use"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1242.809,"endTime":1245.839,"body":"the proper container registries,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1242.809,"endTime":1245.839,"body":"they were pulling from, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1245.839,"endTime":1248.419,"body":"know, and all of a sudden, they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1245.839,"endTime":1248.419,"body":"were getting a lot more, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1248.419,"endTime":1251.659,"body":"know, sort of unscanned images"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1252.77,"endTime":1255.02,"body":"increase, like, oh, wait a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1252.77,"endTime":1255.02,"body":"minute, did you guys know that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1255.05,"endTime":1258.05,"body":"we have, you know, we only use"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1255.05,"endTime":1258.05,"body":"Artifactory or, you know, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1258.35,"endTime":1262.73,"body":"or, you know, are registered"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1258.35,"endTime":1262.73,"body":"with us. But that that can even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1262.76,"endTime":1265.52,"body":"appear within statistical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1262.76,"endTime":1265.52,"body":"controller as well, they can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1265.52,"endTime":1268.28,"body":"actually be within the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1265.52,"endTime":1268.28,"body":"boundaries of limits, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1268.28,"endTime":1272.42,"body":"because you bring in new teams,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1268.28,"endTime":1272.42,"body":"it may not be that special"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1272.42,"endTime":1274.97,"body":"calls, it may be, you may"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1272.42,"endTime":1274.97,"body":"increase the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1275.99,"endTime":1279.35,"body":"variation slight to a higher"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1275.99,"endTime":1279.35,"body":"degree, but doesn't actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1279.35,"endTime":1282.98,"body":"cross the line. 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And you probably want"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1291.08,"endTime":1293.36,"body":"to start sorting it sooner"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1293.36,"endTime":1294.17,"body":"rather than later."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1295.7,"endTime":1300.65,"body":"You also mentioned mean, as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1295.7,"endTime":1300.65,"body":"well. Mean is another horrible."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1300.92,"endTime":1301.64,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1302.93,"endTime":1306.83,"body":"I had, I had a conversation with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1302.93,"endTime":1306.83,"body":"Lakshmi recovery, certainly rock"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1306.83,"endTime":1310.79,"body":"fan. Oh, he's awesome. He's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1306.83,"endTime":1310.79,"body":"amazing. 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I was on a side"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1351.08,"endTime":1353.39,"body":"story, I got to hang out with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1351.08,"endTime":1353.39,"body":"Mark Burgess,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1354.44,"endTime":1358.97,"body":"Oslo. And so I was he was he was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1354.44,"endTime":1358.97,"body":"talking about that blog article."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1359.21,"endTime":1362.36,"body":"And he basically very much like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1359.21,"endTime":1362.36,"body":"Deming, which is interesting,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1362.36,"endTime":1366.11,"body":"like he's a physicist, and he's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1362.36,"endTime":1366.11,"body":"like, ya know, statisticians?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1366.11,"endTime":1369.14,"body":"You know, I guess, although stat"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1366.11,"endTime":1369.14,"body":"classes I didn't even understand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1369.14,"endTime":1371.99,"body":"until I actually got my PhD in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1369.14,"endTime":1371.99,"body":"physics. And then I realized,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1372.53,"endTime":1375.59,"body":"oh, that's what statistics"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1372.53,"endTime":1375.59,"body":"really. And he was trying to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1375.59,"endTime":1378.62,"body":"explain me. So I'm like, Mark,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1375.59,"endTime":1378.62,"body":"should I go back and take some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1378.62,"endTime":1381.14,"body":"statistics? He's like, No, he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1378.62,"endTime":1381.14,"body":"says that, you know, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1381.5,"endTime":1384.41,"body":"they're going to teach you all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1381.5,"endTime":1384.41,"body":"the wrong stuff. But the thing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1384.41,"endTime":1387.89,"body":"that I, you know, that floor of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1384.41,"endTime":1387.89,"body":"averages, right, that's the sort"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1387.89,"endTime":1391.58,"body":"of mean is that is the, I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1387.89,"endTime":1391.58,"body":"that is why like standard"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1391.58,"endTime":1395.72,"body":"deviation becomes more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1391.58,"endTime":1395.72,"body":"interesting. And why, in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1395.72,"endTime":1399.35,"body":"general, statistical process"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1395.72,"endTime":1399.35,"body":"control charts. So mean, maybe a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1399.35,"endTime":1403.28,"body":"dirty word. But when you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1399.35,"endTime":1403.28,"body":"doing it in something like, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1403.28,"endTime":1407.33,"body":"know, the way you're sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1403.28,"endTime":1407.33,"body":"saying is the data is, well,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1407.36,"endTime":1411.08,"body":"there's at least two major"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1407.36,"endTime":1411.08,"body":"points, which are analytical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1411.08,"endTime":1411.74,"body":"statistics."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1412.85,"endTime":1416.9,"body":"Point, the the example of some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1412.85,"endTime":1416.9,"body":"price controls, or one is it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1416.9,"endTime":1419.3,"body":"really isn't based on the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1416.9,"endTime":1419.3,"body":"average, it's based on the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1419.3,"endTime":1424.7,"body":"deviation, the standard"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1419.3,"endTime":1424.7,"body":"deviation. And then, and then to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1424.91,"endTime":1428.93,"body":"you made this point is, this was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1424.91,"endTime":1428.93,"body":"the hardest thing for me to get,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1428.93,"endTime":1430.97,"body":"you know, these these things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1428.93,"endTime":1430.97,"body":"that you just peel the onion,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1430.97,"endTime":1435.32,"body":"which was to really understand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1430.97,"endTime":1435.32,"body":"the difference between like, how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1435.32,"endTime":1440.39,"body":"variant variation works, how it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1435.32,"endTime":1440.39,"body":"works in a control chart, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1440.39,"endTime":1445.34,"body":"why randomness over the mean, is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1440.39,"endTime":1445.34,"body":"the you know, we might probably"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1445.34,"endTime":1448.37,"body":"lose everybody right now. But,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1445.34,"endTime":1448.37,"body":"but randomness over the mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1448.37,"endTime":1451.64,"body":"like one below, like one below,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1448.37,"endTime":1451.64,"body":"one above, another above, one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1451.64,"endTime":1458.03,"body":"below, one above the mean, is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1451.64,"endTime":1458.03,"body":"actually normal, it is in his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1458.03,"endTime":1461.72,"body":"Common Cause we're in process."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1458.03,"endTime":1461.72,"body":"So because, you know, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1461.75,"endTime":1465.2,"body":"physics demands that there is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1461.75,"endTime":1465.2,"body":"variation in all processes, no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1465.2,"endTime":1470.18,"body":"exact measurements. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1465.2,"endTime":1470.18,"body":"normal process is basically some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1470.18,"endTime":1474.44,"body":"randomness that's within the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1470.18,"endTime":1474.44,"body":"upper and lower control limits."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1474.47,"endTime":1477.77,"body":"Exactly, yeah. So the ones where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1474.47,"endTime":1477.77,"body":"they you start seeing patterns,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1478.43,"endTime":1482.72,"body":"whereas non randomness, and then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1478.43,"endTime":1482.72,"body":"obviously, the one pattern is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1482.72,"endTime":1484.43,"body":"above or below the control line."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1485.96,"endTime":1489.02,"body":"Deming was also very keen to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1485.96,"endTime":1489.02,"body":"point out that if you did start"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1489.02,"endTime":1493.13,"body":"to adjust your processes based"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1489.02,"endTime":1493.13,"body":"on you know, the slightest"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1493.13,"endTime":1494.93,"body":"variation, you're doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1493.13,"endTime":1494.93,"body":"something called tempering,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1494.93,"endTime":1496.46,"body":"which actually makes it worse."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1498.11,"endTime":1499.97,"body":"You know, so So it's best not to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1498.11,"endTime":1499.97,"body":"do that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1500.0,"endTime":1503.93,"body":"Time bring and and work with,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1500.0,"endTime":1503.93,"body":"you know, accept the fact that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1503.93,"endTime":1507.14,"body":"you're going to have this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1503.93,"endTime":1507.14,"body":"variation. But understand what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1507.14,"endTime":1509.69,"body":"their variation means and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1507.14,"endTime":1509.69,"body":"changes to the, as you say, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1509.69,"endTime":1512.45,"body":"patterns, the patterns and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1509.69,"endTime":1512.45,"body":"variation and see and see what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1512.45,"endTime":1517.88,"body":"happens over time and, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1512.45,"endTime":1517.88,"body":"responding that way. By, as I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1517.88,"endTime":1521.36,"body":"said, to shutting up this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1517.88,"endTime":1521.36,"body":"conversation started on LinkedIn"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1521.36,"endTime":1525.62,"body":"was that I just find it's a hard"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1521.36,"endTime":1525.62,"body":"sell within an organization."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1526.64,"endTime":1528.77,"body":"I've, I've just find it really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1526.64,"endTime":1528.77,"body":"difficult to go into an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1528.77,"endTime":1530.66,"body":"organization and say, This is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1528.77,"endTime":1530.66,"body":"what you should do."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1531.71,"endTime":1534.8,"body":"Well, I mean, he was an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1531.71,"endTime":1534.8,"body":"impossible sell in America."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1535.16,"endTime":1541.07,"body":"Yeah. Back in America, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1535.16,"endTime":1541.07,"body":"he went over to Japan. And like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1541.1,"endTime":1545.66,"body":"you know, what it take it took"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1541.1,"endTime":1545.66,"body":"his whole career. till he's 80."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1546.23,"endTime":1550.79,"body":"Yeah. And it was, it was sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1546.23,"endTime":1550.79,"body":"an accidental, you know, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1551.09,"endTime":1554.21,"body":"all this is in my book, by the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1551.09,"endTime":1554.21,"body":"way, but, but yeah, I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1554.21,"endTime":1557.03,"body":"that documentary, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1554.21,"endTime":1557.03,"body":"Japan can, why can't we that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1557.03,"endTime":1559.91,"body":"Americans like, well, how can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1557.03,"endTime":1559.91,"body":"you know, they realize this guy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1559.91,"endTime":1564.62,"body":"who has been preaching this for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1559.91,"endTime":1564.62,"body":"50 years in America was just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1564.62,"endTime":1568.04,"body":"ignored, you know, so yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1564.62,"endTime":1568.04,"body":"mean, you know, like, he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1568.04,"endTime":1571.7,"body":"couldn't do it, even though he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1568.04,"endTime":1571.7,"body":"proved it, you know, during"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1571.7,"endTime":1575.48,"body":"World War Two. 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But I think the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1592.34,"endTime":1595.13,"body":"thing the other thing I learned"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1592.34,"endTime":1595.13,"body":"recently, and I think I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1595.13,"endTime":1598.43,"body":"gonna do this in a part two,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1595.13,"endTime":1598.43,"body":"which was, like, you talked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1598.43,"endTime":1602.54,"body":"about, like, that randomness and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1598.43,"endTime":1602.54,"body":"tampering, but the thing that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1602.57,"endTime":1606.14,"body":"like, in a system, profound"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1602.57,"endTime":1606.14,"body":"knowledge, right, I decided that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1606.71,"endTime":1609.26,"body":"you really need to explain the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1606.71,"endTime":1609.26,"body":"system provide knowledge in an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1609.26,"endTime":1611.63,"body":"order, and I don't think anybody"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1609.26,"endTime":1611.63,"body":"else does it, I think you have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1611.63,"endTime":1614.63,"body":"to start with a theory of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1611.63,"endTime":1614.63,"body":"knowledge, which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1614.63,"endTime":1618.68,"body":"epistemology, then you do a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1614.63,"endTime":1618.68,"body":"variation. 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And it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1639.08,"endTime":1642.53,"body":"normal, because then we would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1642.53,"endTime":1647.09,"body":"talk about this, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1642.53,"endTime":1647.09,"body":"what, if normal is just not good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1647.09,"endTime":1651.5,"body":"enough, right? Let's say that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1647.09,"endTime":1651.5,"body":"look at it over time. And, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1651.5,"endTime":1654.71,"body":"we're averaging, you know, this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1651.5,"endTime":1654.71,"body":"variance. 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Right."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1662.84,"endTime":1666.41,"body":"But then this is where the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1666.41,"endTime":1669.41,"body":"epistemology comes in, or the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1666.41,"endTime":1669.41,"body":"theory of knowledge is where you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1669.41,"endTime":1673.52,"body":"do the Plan, Do Check Act, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1669.41,"endTime":1673.52,"body":"study acts, right. And,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1674.75,"endTime":1678.68,"body":"and so what we say is, like, I,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1674.75,"endTime":1678.68,"body":"I'm gonna predict that if I do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1678.68,"endTime":1682.13,"body":"this, like, for example, what I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1678.68,"endTime":1682.13,"body":"use in this part two that I have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1682.13,"endTime":1687.74,"body":"written yet is, like, we use a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1682.13,"endTime":1687.74,"body":"new form of TDD training. So a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1687.74,"endTime":1690.92,"body":"new vendor came in said, oh, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1687.74,"endTime":1690.92,"body":"know, if I can die, I can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1690.92,"endTime":1694.61,"body":"improve your test coverage"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1690.92,"endTime":1694.61,"body":"without new training. And so, so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1694.61,"endTime":1698.24,"body":"you basically for two weeks, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1694.61,"endTime":1698.24,"body":"do two, you know, two weeks"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1698.24,"endTime":1702.47,"body":"sprint of training. So it's an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1698.24,"endTime":1702.47,"body":"improvement, right? And then you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1702.47,"endTime":1706.52,"body":"watch, does it actually increase"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1702.47,"endTime":1706.52,"body":"and then over, like, another 15"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1706.52,"endTime":1712.01,"body":"weeks, it actually now averages"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1706.52,"endTime":1712.01,"body":"about 70% or 75%. Right. 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It's there are other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1868.61,"endTime":1872.93,"body":"motivators. And psychology plays"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1868.61,"endTime":1872.93,"body":"an important part in that to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1872.93,"endTime":1876.38,"body":"actually understand people's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1872.93,"endTime":1876.38,"body":"motivators. And so yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1876.38,"endTime":1880.37,"body":"totally get the system of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1876.38,"endTime":1880.37,"body":"phonology. And it totally syncs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1880.37,"endTime":1883.31,"body":"with what I'm trying to do at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1880.37,"endTime":1883.31,"body":"home and in my own life, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1883.31,"endTime":1887.15,"body":"know, Dennis masters and trying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1883.31,"endTime":1887.15,"body":"to understand systems to try and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1887.15,"endTime":1891.32,"body":"understand, you know, why is it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1887.15,"endTime":1891.32,"body":"cybersecurity doesn't seem to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1891.32,"endTime":1891.92,"body":"working?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1892.94,"endTime":1896.45,"body":"Yeah, no, I love I love. You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1892.94,"endTime":1896.45,"body":"know, we still now to podcasts,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1896.45,"endTime":1899.39,"body":"and we haven't, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1896.45,"endTime":1899.39,"body":"think we have to just sit down,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1899.39,"endTime":1901.25,"body":"right? When we go to Japan, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1899.39,"endTime":1901.25,"body":"know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1902.27,"endTime":1904.61,"body":"really try to dissect some of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1902.27,"endTime":1904.61,"body":"these, you know, because in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1904.61,"endTime":1907.58,"body":"podcast, like, this is fun, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1904.61,"endTime":1907.58,"body":"I think people enjoy listening"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1907.58,"endTime":1910.82,"body":"to us, but, but like, the, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1907.58,"endTime":1910.82,"body":"you almost need a whiteboard,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1910.82,"endTime":1913.97,"body":"you know? And, yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1910.82,"endTime":1913.97,"body":"you're right there. We talked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1913.97,"endTime":1917.0,"body":"about this in the last podcast"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1913.97,"endTime":1917.0,"body":"is like just so many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1917.0,"endTime":1921.47,"body":"opportunities and security in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1917.0,"endTime":1921.47,"body":"everything in it, but certainly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1921.47,"endTime":1925.88,"body":"insecurity to, to really flesh"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1921.47,"endTime":1925.88,"body":"out these because these concepts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1925.91,"endTime":1931.07,"body":"are like they're there. They're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1925.91,"endTime":1931.07,"body":"fundamental, like, in my book, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1931.07,"endTime":1931.79,"body":"try to,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1932.87,"endTime":1936.59,"body":"I try to explain that, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1932.87,"endTime":1936.59,"body":"there's just this this meta"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1936.59,"endTime":1939.8,"body":"concept of profound knowledge."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1936.59,"endTime":1939.8,"body":"And Deming just sort of grabbed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1939.8,"endTime":1946.04,"body":"pieces of it in his career, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1939.8,"endTime":1946.04,"body":"was able to formulate it is nice"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1946.04,"endTime":1948.98,"body":"book, you know, it wasn't like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1946.04,"endTime":1948.98,"body":"you know, it's like anything in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1948.98,"endTime":1951.35,"body":"this world. We don't like really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1948.98,"endTime":1951.35,"body":"invent anything, we sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1951.35,"endTime":1955.4,"body":"learned things, right. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1951.35,"endTime":1955.4,"body":"there's, like, I, I wanted to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1955.4,"endTime":1958.25,"body":"clear, in a book like this, this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1955.4,"endTime":1958.25,"body":"notion of this profound"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1958.25,"endTime":1962.57,"body":"knowledge. And Deming just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1958.25,"endTime":1962.57,"body":"absorb these pieces, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1962.57,"endTime":1966.2,"body":"codified it. And, and I think,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1962.57,"endTime":1966.2,"body":"you know, like, I was just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1966.2,"endTime":1968.75,"body":"thinking, you know, I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1966.2,"endTime":1968.75,"body":"talking about I just hung out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1968.75,"endTime":1971.48,"body":"with Mark Burgess, who just, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1968.75,"endTime":1971.48,"body":"know, when you were just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1971.48,"endTime":1974.93,"body":"talking, I'm thinking I probably"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1971.48,"endTime":1974.93,"body":"should go back and read his in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1974.93,"endTime":1979.76,"body":"such a certainty book. Because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1974.93,"endTime":1979.76,"body":"it has, like, so many those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1979.76,"endTime":1983.21,"body":"things about he doesn't call it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1979.76,"endTime":1983.21,"body":"variation, but the physics"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1983.21,"endTime":1987.71,"body":"principles of scale. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1983.21,"endTime":1987.71,"body":"Right. Which, you know, did you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1987.71,"endTime":1991.01,"body":"ever read in such a certainty? I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1987.71,"endTime":1991.01,"body":"have read it Yeah, of course."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1991.55,"endTime":1995.81,"body":"Yeah, definitely read the bits"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1991.55,"endTime":1995.81,"body":"of it at least it's a hard read."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1996.53,"endTime":1999.32,"body":"Yeah, it's a hard read but but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1996.53,"endTime":1999.32,"body":"yeah, they you know, if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1999.32,"endTime":2002.89,"body":"think about Rother is you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1999.32,"endTime":2002.89,"body":"the gray zone. No more all over"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2002.89,"endTime":2004.15,"body":"the place now but what the hell"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2002.89,"endTime":2004.15,"body":"is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2005.86,"endTime":2008.38,"body":"anybody else understands or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2005.86,"endTime":2008.38,"body":"listened to? But in Rother is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2008.38,"endTime":2011.74,"body":"the gray zone? Yeah, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2008.38,"endTime":2011.74,"body":"that it's the same. They're the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2011.74,"endTime":2016.18,"body":"same principles. Like there's no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2011.74,"endTime":2016.18,"body":"sort of deterministic exactness."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2017.08,"endTime":2021.37,"body":"Like, in Ross's world is like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2017.08,"endTime":2021.37,"body":"checklists are useless. Because,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2021.82,"endTime":2024.4,"body":"I mean, theoretically after to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2021.82,"endTime":2024.4,"body":"get past the first one,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2024.4,"endTime":2026.35,"body":"everything's changed. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2024.4,"endTime":2026.35,"body":"certainly after the second"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2027.22,"endTime":2030.52,"body":"Gatsby get to third or fourth,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2027.22,"endTime":2030.52,"body":"right. Yeah. He talks about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2030.52,"endTime":2034.33,"body":"improvement, kata, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2030.52,"endTime":2034.33,"body":"then and then. 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And now I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2201.37,"endTime":2205.57,"body":"blanking on our guy, but Bill"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2205.57,"endTime":2209.74,"body":"and Jason Jason Cole, they're,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2205.57,"endTime":2209.74,"body":"you know, this the same thing,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2209.74,"endTime":2212.5,"body":"we tried to do the same thing,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2209.74,"endTime":2212.5,"body":"you know, so that's, that's what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2212.62,"endTime":2214.78,"body":"I didn't realize. Do you say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2212.62,"endTime":2214.78,"body":"that? That's a very damning"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2215.41,"endTime":2220.27,"body":"approach? Yeah, definitely. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2215.41,"endTime":2220.27,"body":"think you cannot prescribe how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2220.27,"endTime":2224.5,"body":"to do something, you can only"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2220.27,"endTime":2224.5,"body":"give the framework or the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2227.47,"endTime":2230.05,"body":"is it? Yeah, I guess it's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2227.47,"endTime":2230.05,"body":"framework of ideas that you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2230.05,"endTime":2233.14,"body":"work with, and perhaps some of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2230.05,"endTime":2233.14,"body":"the tools that you need to do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2233.14,"endTime":2237.97,"body":"to, you know, apply to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2233.14,"endTime":2237.97,"body":"system. And, well, yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2237.97,"endTime":2240.37,"body":"that's why epistemology is that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2237.97,"endTime":2240.37,"body":"it has to be the starting point,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2240.37,"endTime":2243.61,"body":"you know, like, I always have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2240.37,"endTime":2243.61,"body":"be, like, to me, like, like, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2243.61,"endTime":2246.61,"body":"has to be in order, I almost"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2243.61,"endTime":2246.61,"body":"wanted to call appreciation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2246.61,"endTime":2250.45,"body":"systems, the fourth discipline,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2246.61,"endTime":2250.45,"body":"you know, like, because it is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2250.45,"endTime":2253.03,"body":"loop, right, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2250.45,"endTime":2253.03,"body":"like, you have to start off with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2253.03,"endTime":2255.28,"body":"this sort of pistol. Knology,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2253.03,"endTime":2255.28,"body":"you have to then and it's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2255.28,"endTime":2258.52,"body":"circle, really, that's what it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2255.28,"endTime":2258.52,"body":"was intended to be used is,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2258.55,"endTime":2259.69,"body":"yeah, cycle."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2260.92,"endTime":2263.32,"body":"Yeah. It's about creating"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2264.73,"endTime":2268.21,"body":"a learning opportunity, hence,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2264.73,"endTime":2268.21,"body":"you go back to the PDSA, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2268.21,"endTime":2271.48,"body":"that's the tool that he liked to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2268.21,"endTime":2271.48,"body":"use, you know, the PDSA is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2271.48,"endTime":2275.83,"body":"tool of that helps you create"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2271.48,"endTime":2275.83,"body":"that learning through through"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2275.83,"endTime":2279.58,"body":"applying the PDSA, you, you come"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2275.83,"endTime":2279.58,"body":"up with your theories, you then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2279.61,"endTime":2282.52,"body":"from your theories, you you get,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2279.61,"endTime":2282.52,"body":"you get solutions, you get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2282.52,"endTime":2285.19,"body":"answers, they may not be the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2282.52,"endTime":2285.19,"body":"answers you were looking for,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2285.19,"endTime":2288.07,"body":"but you get answers. And you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2285.19,"endTime":2288.07,"body":"apply your learning from those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2288.07,"endTime":2291.82,"body":"answers to the next cycle. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2288.07,"endTime":2291.82,"body":"so it's a continuous process of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2291.85,"endTime":2293.17,"body":"of learning and adapting,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2294.31,"endTime":2298.06,"body":"which is, you know, so important"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2294.31,"endTime":2298.06,"body":"in these complex systems that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2298.06,"endTime":2300.58,"body":"we're now running it eventually,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2298.06,"endTime":2300.58,"body":"organizations are so complex,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2300.58,"endTime":2305.32,"body":"the software we're building is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2300.58,"endTime":2305.32,"body":"so complex that you, you there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2305.32,"endTime":2308.53,"body":"is no solution. It's just a case"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2305.32,"endTime":2308.53,"body":"of understanding, learning and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2308.53,"endTime":2311.47,"body":"adapting as you go through it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2308.53,"endTime":2311.47,"body":"and trying to make things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2311.47,"endTime":2313.87,"body":"better, right, try to improve"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2311.47,"endTime":2313.87,"body":"things rather than actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2313.9,"endTime":2316.9,"body":"solve problems. And even to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2313.9,"endTime":2316.9,"body":"eight hours a day, I'm guessing,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2317.38,"endTime":2320.71,"body":"we'll find out in May, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2317.38,"endTime":2320.71,"body":"guessing they still have 100,000"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2320.74,"endTime":2321.82,"body":"Suggestions every year."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2323.86,"endTime":2326.65,"body":"Because they're always looking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2323.86,"endTime":2326.65,"body":"to improve. So it's not a case"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2326.65,"endTime":2329.86,"body":"that they made all the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2326.65,"endTime":2329.86,"body":"improvements 30 years ago. There"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2329.86,"endTime":2332.8,"body":"reminds me Yeah, so you know, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2329.86,"endTime":2332.8,"body":"don't know if you had a chance."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2332.8,"endTime":2336.52,"body":"But the mascio nomoto. Yes,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2332.8,"endTime":2336.52,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2337.72,"endTime":2342.97,"body":"read his book. And it's just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2337.72,"endTime":2342.97,"body":"incredible. Yeah, like, and one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2342.97,"endTime":2346.81,"body":"of the biggest parts of his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2342.97,"endTime":2346.81,"body":"books is a big part of it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2346.81,"endTime":2351.13,"body":"making sure you set up the whole"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2346.81,"endTime":2351.13,"body":"cycle of suggestions, not just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2351.13,"endTime":2353.11,"body":"have a suggestion box, like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2354.13,"endTime":2357.7,"body":"the suggestions are heard by the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2354.13,"endTime":2357.7,"body":"people that there, it's just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2357.97,"endTime":2360.97,"body":"like, he goes into, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2357.97,"endTime":2360.97,"body":"again, every lots of companies"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2360.97,"endTime":2364.99,"body":"have just suggestion boxes,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2360.97,"endTime":2364.99,"body":"right? In his, you know, his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2364.99,"endTime":2367.54,"body":"book, he has a whole, like, sort"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2364.99,"endTime":2367.54,"body":"of almost, I think, at least a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2367.54,"endTime":2371.74,"body":"chapter but a whole deep section"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2367.54,"endTime":2371.74,"body":"about the cycle of suggestions."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2371.74,"endTime":2374.05,"body":"You know, it's like, it's like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2371.74,"endTime":2374.05,"body":"when we talk about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2374.05,"endTime":2375.7,"body":"retrospectives, right. Like, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2374.05,"endTime":2375.7,"body":"know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2376.75,"endTime":2380.77,"body":"and it's a weird context switch,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2376.75,"endTime":2380.77,"body":"but like, you know, it's one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2380.77,"endTime":2385.0,"body":"thing to just do incident. It's,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2380.77,"endTime":2385.0,"body":"I think the full lifecycle"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2385.18,"endTime":2388.57,"body":"remediation. Well, same thing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2385.18,"endTime":2388.57,"body":"with suggestions. It's like a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2388.69,"endTime":2393.31,"body":"lifecycle suggestion is, is far"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2388.69,"endTime":2393.31,"body":"more effective than just a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2393.31,"endTime":2397.15,"body":"suggestion box. But yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2393.31,"endTime":2397.15,"body":"yeah, exactly. And I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2397.15,"endTime":2399.97,"body":"Western Western companies"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2397.15,"endTime":2399.97,"body":"actually have a suggestion"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2400.0,"endTime":2402.4,"body":"Vox, I think the only suggestion"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2400.0,"endTime":2402.4,"body":"you get out of it is that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2402.4,"endTime":2404.38,"body":"probably need to trash can for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2402.4,"endTime":2404.38,"body":"chewing gum."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2406.48,"endTime":2410.5,"body":"Or people just like I think the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2406.48,"endTime":2410.5,"body":"his point is,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2411.61,"endTime":2414.16,"body":"if they, you know, I've done"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2411.61,"endTime":2414.16,"body":"this when I go in and do any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2414.16,"endTime":2416.98,"body":"sort of qualitative analysis and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2414.16,"endTime":2416.98,"body":"interview, like lots of people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2416.98,"endTime":2420.07,"body":"in organization, there's this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2416.98,"endTime":2420.07,"body":"fear that they're wasting their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2420.07,"endTime":2421.24,"body":"time because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2422.8,"endTime":2426.43,"body":"because, you know, okay, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2422.8,"endTime":2426.43,"body":"know, you're the 30th person"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2426.43,"endTime":2430.36,"body":"I've told this to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2426.43,"endTime":2430.36,"body":"makes me think that you're going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2430.36,"endTime":2433.24,"body":"to actually get through the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2430.36,"endTime":2433.24,"body":"leadership, right? And, and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2433.24,"endTime":2435.34,"body":"always go back to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2433.24,"endTime":2435.34,"body":"leadership, when I'm done is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2435.34,"endTime":2438.55,"body":"like, even if you want to throw"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2435.34,"endTime":2438.55,"body":"my report, I always joke, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2438.55,"endTime":2440.8,"body":"you're gonna pay me the way."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2438.55,"endTime":2440.8,"body":"Like, even if you throw my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2440.8,"endTime":2444.79,"body":"report in the trash, can, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2440.8,"endTime":2444.79,"body":"still owe me the money. But the,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2444.91,"endTime":2449.47,"body":"but just please, even if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2444.91,"endTime":2449.47,"body":"want to throw this thing in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2449.47,"endTime":2451.87,"body":"trash, which doesn't happen, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2452.95,"endTime":2456.88,"body":"do one thing out of it, just to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2452.95,"endTime":2456.88,"body":"show these people that there is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2456.88,"endTime":2460.66,"body":"hope, because you just ignore"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2456.88,"endTime":2460.66,"body":"everything. I just, you just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2460.66,"endTime":2462.88,"body":"paid for me to spend a month"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2460.66,"endTime":2462.88,"body":"with your company, I interviewed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2462.91,"endTime":2467.17,"body":"300 people, and they took their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2462.91,"endTime":2467.17,"body":"time, and I've earned their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2467.17,"endTime":2471.04,"body":"trust. So like, even if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2467.17,"endTime":2471.04,"body":"disagree with everything I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2471.04,"endTime":2473.8,"body":"about to tell you take one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2471.04,"endTime":2473.8,"body":"the things that you think is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2473.8,"endTime":2477.7,"body":"harmless, at least show them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2473.8,"endTime":2477.7,"body":"that it wasn't a waste of time."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2477.7,"endTime":2481.78,"body":"Right. And, and that's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2477.7,"endTime":2481.78,"body":"problem is, I think people just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2481.78,"endTime":2485.95,"body":"face it. These are people that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2481.78,"endTime":2485.95,"body":"do this work are really smart"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2485.95,"endTime":2489.43,"body":"people isn't Deming understood?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2485.95,"endTime":2489.43,"body":"Yeah, these people have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2489.79,"endTime":2493.48,"body":"incredible value. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2489.79,"endTime":2493.48,"body":"absolutely. And you know, not to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2493.54,"endTime":2496.87,"body":"make it simplistic, but a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2493.54,"endTime":2496.87,"body":"terroristic view of their work"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2497.77,"endTime":2501.7,"body":"is what drove me nuts. Right?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2497.77,"endTime":2501.7,"body":"It's like, why don't we just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2501.7,"endTime":2505.12,"body":"assume that these people are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2501.7,"endTime":2505.12,"body":"talented and smart? And could if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2505.12,"endTime":2508.45,"body":"we give them the right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2505.12,"endTime":2508.45,"body":"conditions? And if even if we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2508.45,"endTime":2510.34,"body":"try to give the right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2508.45,"endTime":2510.34,"body":"conditions, and we have this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2510.34,"endTime":2515.2,"body":"sort of notional suggestion box"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2510.34,"endTime":2515.2,"body":"in like, you like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2515.2,"endTime":2518.68,"body":"somebody pours their heart and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2515.2,"endTime":2518.68,"body":"soul into describing an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2518.68,"endTime":2519.31,"body":"improvement."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2520.42,"endTime":2524.89,"body":"And they know that it least"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2520.42,"endTime":2524.89,"body":"deserved the debate. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2525.97,"endTime":2528.67,"body":"I would even go one step further"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2525.97,"endTime":2528.67,"body":"and say, take one and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2528.67,"endTime":2532.84,"body":"suggestions and experiment."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2528.67,"endTime":2532.84,"body":"Yeah, well, there you go. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2533.14,"endTime":2534.52,"body":"Thank you. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2537.31,"endTime":2541.15,"body":"Because when you say, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2537.31,"endTime":2541.15,"body":"like, you know, the leadership"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2541.15,"endTime":2543.61,"body":"team disagree with it. How are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2541.15,"endTime":2543.61,"body":"they justifying?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2545.08,"endTime":2548.62,"body":"It? Yeah, no, you're right."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2545.08,"endTime":2548.62,"body":"Like, it's Yeah, Mr. Me, Mr."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2548.62,"endTime":2550.24,"body":"Demming. Like, how did I miss"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2548.62,"endTime":2550.24,"body":"that one?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2551.59,"endTime":2554.17,"body":"No, you're exactly right. That's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2551.59,"endTime":2554.17,"body":"the whole point is that the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2554.17,"endTime":2556.63,"body":"dubbing was very critical. The"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2554.17,"endTime":2556.63,"body":"leadership teams of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2556.63,"endTime":2561.28,"body":"companies he spoke out, he mocks"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2556.63,"endTime":2561.28,"body":"them. Yeah, go back and read the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2561.28,"endTime":2565.84,"body":"new motto if he's, if he if he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2561.28,"endTime":2565.84,"body":"adds that layer into it very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2565.84,"endTime":2568.6,"body":"comprehensive. I think I wrote"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2565.84,"endTime":2568.6,"body":"something about it. I don't know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2568.6,"endTime":2571.57,"body":"if I I think I wrote. I tried to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2568.6,"endTime":2571.57,"body":"do a sort of quick book review"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2571.57,"endTime":2575.02,"body":"because I was so excited. Not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2571.57,"endTime":2575.02,"body":"to, not to forget it. You know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2575.02,"endTime":2576.52,"body":"what I mean? I was like, this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2575.02,"endTime":2576.52,"body":"was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2577.96,"endTime":2581.11,"body":"the reason I got the book, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2577.96,"endTime":2581.11,"body":"was and I mentioned this, Katie"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2581.11,"endTime":2586.3,"body":"in her book, Yoshino says, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2581.11,"endTime":2586.3,"body":"I'm gonna mangle this quote,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2586.3,"endTime":2592.06,"body":"too, but he says that mascio"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2586.3,"endTime":2592.06,"body":"Animoto is as important or even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2592.06,"endTime":2595.33,"body":"more important than to chono."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2592.06,"endTime":2595.33,"body":"Yeah, that's right. That's all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2595.36,"endTime":2597.76,"body":"oh, here's a guy I never even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2595.36,"endTime":2597.76,"body":"heard of."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2598.87,"endTime":2601.6,"body":"That I like I better go figure"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2598.87,"endTime":2601.6,"body":"out who he is. And I saw he had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2601.6,"endTime":2603.79,"body":"a book and I'm like, Alright,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2601.6,"endTime":2603.79,"body":"I'm gonna go out and get this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2603.79,"endTime":2604.21,"body":"book."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2605.38,"endTime":2608.32,"body":"It's funny cuz Katie Issa got a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2605.38,"endTime":2608.32,"body":"bookcase behind me. Katie"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2608.32,"endTime":2611.38,"body":"actually spotted it on my shelf."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2608.32,"endTime":2611.38,"body":"Oh, really? Oh, that's awesome."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2611.41,"endTime":2612.49,"body":"You got the book? Yes."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2613.78,"endTime":2616.27,"body":"Yeah, I can't really see I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2613.78,"endTime":2616.27,"body":"sure you have pretty good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2616.27,"endTime":2617.53,"body":"catalog. They're like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2620.59,"endTime":2623.32,"body":"no, I wouldn't say that book. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2620.59,"endTime":2623.32,"body":"love whenever I go into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2623.32,"endTime":2624.4,"body":"somebody's office."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2625.69,"endTime":2628.84,"body":"You see, if I go into like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2625.69,"endTime":2628.84,"body":"somebody's office in their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2628.84,"endTime":2631.51,"body":"workplace, I immediately look at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2628.84,"endTime":2631.51,"body":"their bookshelf."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2633.7,"endTime":2636.85,"body":"Whenever I go into somebody's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2633.7,"endTime":2636.85,"body":"office, yep. Like, the first"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2636.85,"endTime":2638.44,"body":"thing I look at is their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2636.85,"endTime":2638.44,"body":"bookshelf."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2639.55,"endTime":2643.24,"body":"It tells me so much about them."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2639.55,"endTime":2643.24,"body":"Based on what's in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2643.24,"endTime":2645.61,"body":"bookshelf, you know, again, they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2643.24,"endTime":2645.61,"body":"may not keep all their books at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2645.61,"endTime":2648.13,"body":"work, but, but like, I can tell,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2645.61,"endTime":2648.13,"body":"like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2649.21,"endTime":2652.9,"body":"you know, like, there's just so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2649.21,"endTime":2652.9,"body":"much about like a person by just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2652.9,"endTime":2657.25,"body":"looking at the books and saying,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2652.9,"endTime":2657.25,"body":"Oh, yep, like, he's got that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2657.25,"endTime":2658.69,"body":"book or she's got that book."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2660.22,"endTime":2660.79,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2661.81,"endTime":2665.86,"body":"there's the Umberto Eco, too."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2661.81,"endTime":2665.86,"body":"Like, they asked the Berto eco"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2665.86,"endTime":2669.04,"body":"I'd like this is saying library,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2665.86,"endTime":2669.04,"body":"right. And somebody asks, Have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2669.04,"endTime":2672.76,"body":"you read all those books? He"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2669.04,"endTime":2672.76,"body":"goes, No, but I can. Yes, yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2673.21,"endTime":2675.55,"body":"Yeah, I've got I've got an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2673.21,"endTime":2675.55,"body":"Umberto Eco book out there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2675.55,"endTime":2678.88,"body":"somewhere. I love him very well."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2675.55,"endTime":2678.88,"body":"I've got the Italian version of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2679.21,"endTime":2684.55,"body":"Foucault's Pendulum. Oh, no, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2679.21,"endTime":2684.55,"body":"you you can read Italian. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2684.67,"endTime":2687.52,"body":"I read it when I was living in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2684.67,"endTime":2687.52,"body":"Italy back about 30 years ago."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2689.02,"endTime":2691.69,"body":"It's one of my all time favorite"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2689.02,"endTime":2691.69,"body":"books. I've only read it can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2691.69,"endTime":2695.02,"body":"read. It's probably amazing in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2691.69,"endTime":2695.02,"body":"Italian because I I've heard the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2695.02,"endTime":2698.2,"body":"Translate. He was apparently"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2695.02,"endTime":2698.2,"body":"upset about the translation or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2698.2,"endTime":2700.0,"body":"something. Yes, that's what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2700.0,"endTime":2703.15,"body":"I'd heard and I think that's why"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2700.0,"endTime":2703.15,"body":"I bought in Italian. Try to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2703.15,"endTime":2707.62,"body":"read. I do speak Italian. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2703.15,"endTime":2707.62,"body":"studied, it's that easy to go to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2707.62,"endTime":2710.83,"body":"university. That's one of my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2707.62,"endTime":2710.83,"body":"favorite. I mean, I love that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2710.83,"endTime":2715.09,"body":"book. You know? Yeah, just since"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2710.83,"endTime":2715.09,"body":"we'll wrap up here, assume that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2716.41,"endTime":2718.93,"body":"I was reading the Davinci Code"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2716.41,"endTime":2718.93,"body":"and a really good friend of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2718.93,"endTime":2721.81,"body":"mine. In fact, one of the guys"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2718.93,"endTime":2721.81,"body":"who was instrumental in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2721.81,"endTime":2723.61,"body":"first review of my damning book,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2724.63,"endTime":2727.99,"body":"and a good friend of mine,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2724.63,"endTime":2727.99,"body":"unbelievable. He's like, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2727.99,"endTime":2730.27,"body":"always say like, he's the only"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2727.99,"endTime":2730.27,"body":"guy who knows, right."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2733.6,"endTime":2737.92,"body":"pyncheons gravity's rainbow and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2733.6,"endTime":2737.92,"body":"Ulysses to the end."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2739.9,"endTime":2743.32,"body":"So, when I was telling about the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2739.9,"endTime":2743.32,"body":"Vinci Code, he's like, Dude, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2743.32,"endTime":2746.65,"body":"gotta read the grown up version."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2743.32,"endTime":2746.65,"body":"Yeah. What do you mean? He's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2746.65,"endTime":2747.82,"body":"like a burger that goes."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2748.93,"endTime":2753.76,"body":"Pendulum like, okay. Oh, my God."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2748.93,"endTime":2753.76,"body":"grownup version. Yeah, he's very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2753.76,"endTime":2759.52,"body":"clever. Harry whines the stories"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2753.76,"endTime":2759.52,"body":"together through history. Oh,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2759.52,"endTime":2762.61,"body":"he's incredible. He's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2759.52,"endTime":2762.61,"body":"incredible. And as good stuff."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2763.33,"endTime":2768.91,"body":"All right, well, um, I'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2763.33,"endTime":2768.91,"body":"hopefully I don't get I know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2768.91,"endTime":2772.33,"body":"those. Katie said that. I only"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2768.91,"endTime":2772.33,"body":"had a limited amount of time to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2772.6,"endTime":2775.57,"body":"pull the trigger. But hopefully"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2772.6,"endTime":2775.57,"body":"I'll get that done this morning."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2775.57,"endTime":2780.1,"body":"And we'll be hanging out and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2775.57,"endTime":2780.1,"body":"yeah, be great. I can't wait to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2780.1,"endTime":2782.59,"body":"go out there and just I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2780.1,"endTime":2782.59,"body":"it's gonna be an awesome trip to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2782.59,"endTime":2784.09,"body":"be honest. All around. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2785.59,"endTime":2788.2,"body":"Well, glad we had to catch up."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2785.59,"endTime":2788.2,"body":"And I hope you have a great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2788.2,"endTime":2794.17,"body":"holiday. My friend. You too. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2788.2,"endTime":2794.17,"body":"let's let's swing back sometime"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2794.17,"endTime":2798.19,"body":"next year. Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2794.17,"endTime":2798.19,"body":"Definitely. We'll definitely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2798.19,"endTime":2799.27,"body":"have to catch up and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2800.92,"endTime":2804.37,"body":"compare some other books. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2800.92,"endTime":2804.37,"body":"no, I think that there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2804.37,"endTime":2806.8,"body":"probably a great we should"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2804.37,"endTime":2806.8,"body":"probably start just sharing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2806.8,"endTime":2811.9,"body":"books with each other at this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2806.8,"endTime":2811.9,"body":"point. So but, but ya know that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2811.9,"endTime":2815.77,"body":"you know, that like, I know we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2811.9,"endTime":2815.77,"body":"wrap up here, but I asked Katie,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2815.8,"endTime":2817.72,"body":"I'm sure you heard in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2815.8,"endTime":2817.72,"body":"podcast. I can't imagine how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2817.72,"endTime":2818.29,"body":"many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2819.49,"endTime":2823.87,"body":"is your Yoshino stories. There"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2819.49,"endTime":2823.87,"body":"are other people who have these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2823.87,"endTime":2827.68,"body":"fascinating stories work in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2823.87,"endTime":2827.68,"body":"toilet? Yeah, he's kind of um,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2827.68,"endTime":2830.65,"body":"they're all in Japanese, though."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2827.68,"endTime":2830.65,"body":"Yeah. Yeah, he was. You said"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2830.65,"endTime":2834.61,"body":"there's been lots of books"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2830.65,"endTime":2834.61,"body":"published in Japanese. To"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2834.64,"endTime":2838.75,"body":"American like, Yeah, but that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2834.64,"endTime":2838.75,"body":"probably a wealth of like, no,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2838.75,"endTime":2842.77,"body":"it's so yeah. It's cool. All"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2838.75,"endTime":2842.77,"body":"right, my friend. Yeah. Okay."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2842.83,"endTime":2844.78,"body":"It's been a great thank you Joe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2842.83,"endTime":2844.78,"body":"next time of year."}]}