{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1.829,"endTime":4.139,"body":"Hello, everybody,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1.829,"endTime":4.139,"body":"I'm here with author John"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":4.139,"endTime":8.489,"body":"Willis. Want to talk about your"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":4.139,"endTime":8.489,"body":"new book? Profound all about all"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":8.489,"endTime":9.929,"body":"about Deming? How are you doing,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":8.489,"endTime":9.929,"body":"Don?"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":9.989,"endTime":11.369,"body":"Good, good. Yeah."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":9.989,"endTime":11.369,"body":"Thanks, Jamie."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":11.399,"endTime":16.349,"body":"so profound. It's"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":11.399,"endTime":16.349,"body":"a pretty profound, full fun and"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":16.529,"endTime":20.639,"body":"full pun intended. You know,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":16.529,"endTime":20.639,"body":"why? Why did you go that route?"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":20.67,"endTime":22.86,"body":"Yeah. You know,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":20.67,"endTime":22.86,"body":"there's there's something, you"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":22.86,"endTime":26.76,"body":"know, thinking about this"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":22.86,"endTime":26.76,"body":"question, the there's a point at"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":26.76,"endTime":30.66,"body":"which somebody asked Deming"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":26.76,"endTime":30.66,"body":"about his experience in Japan."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":30.66,"endTime":33.36,"body":"And there's always been this"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":30.66,"endTime":33.36,"body":"debate about, you know, what's"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":33.36,"endTime":36.27,"body":"it Duran was this guy was it"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":33.36,"endTime":36.27,"body":"that guy, and it's sort of a"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":36.27,"endTime":39.96,"body":"stupid debate. It was an error"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":36.27,"endTime":39.96,"body":"when you bow but he made this"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":39.96,"endTime":43.32,"body":"comment. And it said, he said"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":39.96,"endTime":43.32,"body":"that, but I'll tell you this,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":43.35,"endTime":48.24,"body":"there was only one person who"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":43.35,"endTime":48.24,"body":"had profound Japan. And they got"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":48.24,"endTime":51.18,"body":"Deming is he was always very"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":48.24,"endTime":51.18,"body":"specific about the words he"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":51.18,"endTime":55.32,"body":"choose. Now, one interpretation"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":51.18,"endTime":55.32,"body":"of that is, is the egotistical"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":55.62,"endTime":59.88,"body":"son of a gun, right. But like me"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":55.62,"endTime":59.88,"body":"have these, like, 10 years of"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":59.88,"endTime":63.75,"body":"understanding this guy. What he"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":59.88,"endTime":63.75,"body":"meant was, he wasn't saying he"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":63.75,"endTime":67.44,"body":"was the smartest guy in Japan,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":63.75,"endTime":67.44,"body":"he was the only person who"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":67.44,"endTime":71.7,"body":"understood this thing called"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":67.44,"endTime":71.7,"body":"profound knowledge. And the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":71.7,"endTime":75.36,"body":"reason why this book, you know,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":71.7,"endTime":75.36,"body":"as I started learning more and"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":75.36,"endTime":78.48,"body":"more about how I wanted to tell"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":75.36,"endTime":78.48,"body":"this book, Deming has this thing"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":78.48,"endTime":81.03,"body":"called a system of profound"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":78.48,"endTime":81.03,"body":"knowledge, just this was his,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":82.26,"endTime":86.46,"body":"you know, sort of his Capstone."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":82.26,"endTime":86.46,"body":"He basically codified this idea"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":86.46,"endTime":91.47,"body":"with like 90 To put it in his"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":86.46,"endTime":91.47,"body":"last book, at 93 years old, was"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":91.47,"endTime":94.77,"body":"published, the world got to see"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":91.47,"endTime":94.77,"body":"his sort of manifesto of this"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":94.77,"endTime":98.25,"body":"idea of system and found out,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":94.77,"endTime":98.25,"body":"one of the things I learned is"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":98.25,"endTime":101.85,"body":"sort of going into researching"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":98.25,"endTime":101.85,"body":"damning and like, it's like"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":101.85,"endTime":104.82,"body":"this, you know, peeling an"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":101.85,"endTime":104.82,"body":"onion, like you just keep"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":104.82,"endTime":111.3,"body":"learning more and more that is"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":104.82,"endTime":111.3,"body":"that, that I wanted to, I knew"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":111.3,"endTime":113.28,"body":"profound knowledge. And it took"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":111.3,"endTime":113.28,"body":"me many years to really"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":113.28,"endTime":116.58,"body":"understand what the system"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":113.28,"endTime":116.58,"body":"profound knowledge was. And it's"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":116.58,"endTime":119.1,"body":"really again, something that he"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":116.58,"endTime":119.1,"body":"would call early in his career,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":119.1,"endTime":122.67,"body":"profound knowledge. And, and"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":119.1,"endTime":122.67,"body":"basically, profound knowledge is"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":122.67,"endTime":126.78,"body":"made up of four pieces. It's"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":122.67,"endTime":126.78,"body":"made of something called the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":126.78,"endTime":130.47,"body":"Theory of Knowledge. It's made"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":126.78,"endTime":130.47,"body":"up of something called the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":130.47,"endTime":134.19,"body":"Theory of variation. And it's"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":130.47,"endTime":134.19,"body":"made up theory of psychology,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":134.25,"endTime":137.25,"body":"and then what he called, for"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":134.25,"endTime":137.25,"body":"some reason, he didn't call it"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":137.25,"endTime":140.34,"body":"theory of systems thinking"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":137.25,"endTime":140.34,"body":"called appreciation of system,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":140.34,"endTime":144.24,"body":"but systems thinking. 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And I"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":188.16,"endTime":194.13,"body":"wanted to figure out what was"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":194.13,"endTime":199.86,"body":"the DNA behind him understanding"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":194.13,"endTime":199.86,"body":"and learning and getting to the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":199.86,"endTime":202.08,"body":"point where he felt he had to"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":199.86,"endTime":202.08,"body":"express it."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":202.2,"endTime":204.78,"body":"So I mean, for"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":202.2,"endTime":204.78,"body":"those that don't fully may have"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":204.78,"endTime":207.72,"body":"heard the name, you know, W."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":204.78,"endTime":207.72,"body":"Edwards, Deming, Edward Deming,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":207.72,"endTime":214.38,"body":"but what? Why is this so"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":207.72,"endTime":214.38,"body":"important? Right? I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":214.38,"endTime":216.33,"body":"think it's kind of like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":214.38,"endTime":216.33,"body":"okay, there's a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":216.33,"endTime":218.91,"body":"that talk about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":216.33,"endTime":218.91,"body":"business improvement and"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":218.91,"endTime":221.91,"body":"operational improvement and"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":218.91,"endTime":221.91,"body":"things like that, like, what,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":221.94,"endTime":226.62,"body":"what's so profound about about"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":221.94,"endTime":226.62,"body":"him, and sort of what's the"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":226.62,"endTime":230.64,"body":"impact that he's had, you know,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":226.62,"endTime":230.64,"body":"to where we are today, right? I"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":230.64,"endTime":232.89,"body":"mean, if you say, well, what's"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":230.64,"endTime":232.89,"body":"the lasting impact? I would say,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":232.89,"endTime":235.29,"body":"yeah, what was impacted? What"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":232.89,"endTime":235.29,"body":"was his lasting impact?"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":235.32,"endTime":237.87,"body":"And the thing was"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":235.32,"endTime":237.87,"body":"that, you know, so like, one of"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":237.87,"endTime":240.78,"body":"the things that Demings started"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":237.87,"endTime":240.78,"body":"expressing in the middle and"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":240.78,"endTime":244.89,"body":"late his career is this notion"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":240.78,"endTime":244.89,"body":"of complexity. So today, we have"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":244.89,"endTime":249.45,"body":"all our complexity sciences."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":244.89,"endTime":249.45,"body":"Yeah. And but he started"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":249.45,"endTime":254.52,"body":"expressing that the only way to"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":249.45,"endTime":254.52,"body":"really understand complexity was"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":254.52,"endTime":258.21,"body":"it was like, I used an analogy."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":254.52,"endTime":258.21,"body":"I think I got it from something"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":258.21,"endTime":261.42,"body":"that he had wrote, but was that"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":258.21,"endTime":261.42,"body":"if you think about, like, the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":261.42,"endTime":265.17,"body":"perfect picture, and a camera,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":261.42,"endTime":265.17,"body":"right, and how do you know what"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":265.17,"endTime":267.9,"body":"is the picture when you see a"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":265.17,"endTime":267.9,"body":"picture that's done by a real"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":267.93,"endTime":272.34,"body":"photographer, an artist, there's"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":267.93,"endTime":272.34,"body":"notion there's speed, there's"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":272.34,"endTime":275.91,"body":"lighting, there's all these"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":272.34,"endTime":275.91,"body":"variables. And depending on how"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":275.91,"endTime":280.8,"body":"you adjust those variables, you"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":275.91,"endTime":280.8,"body":"get a different picture. You"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":280.8,"endTime":283.56,"body":"know, one of the things in the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":280.8,"endTime":283.56,"body":"book I use the perfect picture"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":283.56,"endTime":286.86,"body":"of as a story as an analogy for"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":283.56,"endTime":286.86,"body":"some of this, which is the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":287.13,"endTime":289.95,"body":"seller grabbing the woman in"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":287.13,"endTime":289.95,"body":"Times Square and kissing her."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":289.98,"endTime":293.88,"body":"Yeah, like that's a perfect that"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":289.98,"endTime":293.88,"body":"picture, like done differently"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":293.88,"endTime":297.09,"body":"by a different photographer, or"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":293.88,"endTime":297.09,"body":"the motion, the speed the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":297.09,"endTime":299.61,"body":"lighting, it's would have been"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":297.09,"endTime":299.61,"body":"lost. So well, just a different"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":299.61,"endTime":303.9,"body":"story. Now and so Deming saw"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":299.61,"endTime":303.9,"body":"this idea of profound knowledge,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":304.59,"endTime":307.92,"body":"much like that, to figure out"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":304.59,"endTime":307.92,"body":"complexity, like you have to"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":307.92,"endTime":312.27,"body":"sort of dial in these four"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":307.92,"endTime":312.27,"body":"principles, and to be able to"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":312.27,"endTime":315.21,"body":"understand complexity. And so"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":312.27,"endTime":315.21,"body":"like, you need to understand"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":315.21,"endTime":318.18,"body":"theory knowledge, which is"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":315.21,"endTime":318.18,"body":"really just scientific thinking,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":318.78,"endTime":322.44,"body":"and scientific method, its"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":318.78,"endTime":322.44,"body":"epistemology. It's the things"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":322.44,"endTime":324.99,"body":"that Mike Rother writes about,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":322.44,"endTime":324.99,"body":"it's what we know of what Lean"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":324.99,"endTime":328.44,"body":"was very good at what Steven"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":324.99,"endTime":328.44,"body":"spear writes about. So that's"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":328.44,"endTime":331.92,"body":"one of the that maybe that's the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":328.44,"endTime":331.92,"body":"speed or the aperture. And then"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":331.92,"endTime":335.64,"body":"there is the theory of"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":331.92,"endTime":335.64,"body":"variation. So let me step back"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":335.64,"endTime":339.0,"body":"to the theory knowledge is"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":335.64,"endTime":339.0,"body":"basically at its core is how do"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":339.0,"endTime":343.02,"body":"we know what we think we know?"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":339.0,"endTime":343.02,"body":"Like, do we really like, like,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":343.02,"endTime":346.89,"body":"let's question what we know."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":343.02,"endTime":346.89,"body":"Yeah, we see that as PDSA and"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":347.13,"endTime":350.7,"body":"and then the theory of variation"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":347.13,"endTime":350.7,"body":"people call it just statistical,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":350.73,"endTime":353.61,"body":"what it really is, how do we"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":350.73,"endTime":353.61,"body":"understand what we think we"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":353.61,"endTime":358.11,"body":"know? Like he becomes like, he"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":353.61,"endTime":358.11,"body":"defined this term that drove all"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":358.11,"endTime":360.57,"body":"the sort of classic"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":358.11,"endTime":360.57,"body":"statisticians. He called it"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":360.87,"endTime":364.98,"body":"analytical statistics versus"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":360.87,"endTime":364.98,"body":"enumerated right. And like, I"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":364.98,"endTime":367.41,"body":"can go deeper into that, but I"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":364.98,"endTime":367.41,"body":"won't right now. But the point"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":367.41,"endTime":370.62,"body":"is, it wasn't just a simple"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":367.41,"endTime":370.62,"body":"process control. It was this"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":370.62,"endTime":376.35,"body":"idea of like, how do you take"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":370.62,"endTime":376.35,"body":"the sort of the shutter speed of"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":376.35,"endTime":382.35,"body":"knowledge, and then use the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":376.35,"endTime":382.35,"body":"lighting of, of the sort of"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":382.38,"endTime":385.38,"body":"understanding in this case, its"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":382.38,"endTime":385.38,"body":"statistical and analytical"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":385.38,"endTime":389.46,"body":"statistics. 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He so"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":401.19,"endTime":405.6,"body":"always saw solution to how do"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":401.19,"endTime":405.6,"body":"you make the sort of betterment"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":405.63,"endTime":411.0,"body":"of humans. And like that whole"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":405.63,"endTime":411.0,"body":"all the body of work that we"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":411.03,"endTime":414.96,"body":"espouse, you know, the Cengage"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":411.03,"endTime":414.96,"body":"all that stuff is all around"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":414.96,"endTime":420.99,"body":"sort of cognition, intrinsic"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":414.96,"endTime":420.99,"body":"motivation. And, and so again,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":421.02,"endTime":423.99,"body":"that's, that's the third, let me"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":421.02,"endTime":423.99,"body":"just say, the shortcut, which"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":423.99,"endTime":427.02,"body":"is, so you got to hold that. And"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":423.99,"endTime":427.02,"body":"this sort of brilliance to add"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":427.02,"endTime":430.41,"body":"the psychology into those first"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":427.02,"endTime":430.41,"body":"two. But then the last piece is"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":430.41,"endTime":433.59,"body":"you have to have an appreciation"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":430.41,"endTime":433.59,"body":"for systems thinking, like you"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":433.62,"endTime":437.07,"body":"like all this sort of knowledge,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":433.62,"endTime":437.07,"body":"we know that this is all"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":437.28,"endTime":440.79,"body":"absolutely 1,000% relative to"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":437.28,"endTime":440.79,"body":"how we're trying to solve these"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":440.79,"endTime":441.9,"body":"complex problems today."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":442.29,"endTime":444.48,"body":"Right? Well, I"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":442.29,"endTime":444.48,"body":"think that's, those are going to"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":444.48,"endTime":451.5,"body":"ask us, you know, how, how"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":444.48,"endTime":451.5,"body":"revolutionary? That's correct."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":451.5,"endTime":454.68,"body":"Terminal was that kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":451.5,"endTime":454.68,"body":"It feels like a lot of things"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":454.68,"endTime":458.52,"body":"that we take for granted. Today"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":454.68,"endTime":458.52,"body":"is sort of the DNA of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":458.82,"endTime":461.31,"body":"modern business practices, or"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":458.82,"endTime":461.31,"body":"you know, how you think about"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":461.31,"endTime":465.72,"body":"managing modern organizations."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":461.31,"endTime":465.72,"body":"How much of a radical departure"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":465.87,"endTime":470.07,"body":"was that in Demings? Time from"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":465.87,"endTime":470.07,"body":"what the standard, conventional"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":470.07,"endTime":471.66,"body":"wisdom? What? 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Like, it was,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":915.57,"endTime":919.23,"body":"like, imagine what's going on in"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":915.57,"endTime":919.23,"body":"Silicon Valley, telephones, this"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":919.23,"endTime":925.53,"body":"like amazing, new thing. And"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":919.23,"endTime":925.53,"body":"it's all the sort of the, the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":925.59,"endTime":929.04,"body":"place the foundation is there."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":925.59,"endTime":929.04,"body":"He's there. There's these"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":929.04,"endTime":932.16,"body":"experiments that invent"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":929.04,"endTime":932.16,"body":"sociality. There's Walter Shu,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":932.16,"endTime":935.52,"body":"it creates this thing. So"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":932.16,"endTime":935.52,"body":"Hawthorne was another story. And"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":935.52,"endTime":941.58,"body":"then by hook story was always"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":935.52,"endTime":941.58,"body":"been the, you know, why Japan?"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":941.61,"endTime":944.61,"body":"If Japan can Why can't wait. So"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":941.61,"endTime":944.61,"body":"I start the book off with that."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":944.82,"endTime":948.24,"body":"And when I, my spin on that was"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":944.82,"endTime":948.24,"body":"a lot of people have told that"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":948.24,"endTime":952.74,"body":"story. It's a documentary"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":948.24,"endTime":952.74,"body":"Demings 80s is old. Japan's"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":952.89,"endTime":956.28,"body":"beating the crap out of us,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":952.89,"endTime":956.28,"body":"right. And now we find out in an"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":956.28,"endTime":958.38,"body":"NBC documented reason, they're"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":956.28,"endTime":958.38,"body":"beating the crap out, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":959.25,"endTime":961.41,"body":"time for primetime that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":959.25,"endTime":961.41,"body":"documentary. But what"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":961.409,"endTime":963.749,"body":"was more"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":961.409,"endTime":963.749,"body":"fascinating about that story is"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":963.749,"endTime":968.789,"body":"that one of the things I found"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":963.749,"endTime":968.789,"body":"that like his grandson was, and"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":968.789,"endTime":971.879,"body":"they're all sitting around,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":968.789,"endTime":971.879,"body":"like, why is my dad grandma not"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":971.879,"endTime":974.699,"body":"going to be on TV? And he"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":971.879,"endTime":974.699,"body":"wouldn't say a word. And they're"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":974.699,"endTime":978.869,"body":"all listening to this. And then,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":974.699,"endTime":978.869,"body":"you know, the, the CEO of Ford"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":978.869,"endTime":983.129,"body":"calls him and invites him in."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":978.869,"endTime":983.129,"body":"But um, you know, put it what I"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":983.129,"endTime":985.799,"body":"wanted to build this sort of"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":983.129,"endTime":985.799,"body":"crescendo of like, what it was"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":985.799,"endTime":988.319,"body":"like, in it next I was I was"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":985.799,"endTime":988.319,"body":"there, right? Like, I was"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":988.379,"endTime":992.099,"body":"getting my driver's license"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":988.379,"endTime":992.099,"body":"driving, right? Like, and, like,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":992.129,"endTime":996.809,"body":"it was like you didn't you feel"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":992.129,"endTime":996.809,"body":"like America last, we got out of"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":996.809,"endTime":1000.559,"body":"the Olympics, where gas prices"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":996.809,"endTime":1000.559,"body":"is everything is just terrible."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1000.769,"endTime":1003.169,"body":"And I said, So in the book, I"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1000.769,"endTime":1003.169,"body":"said, you know, like, this is"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1003.169,"endTime":1006.979,"body":"what it looked like in 1980."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1003.169,"endTime":1006.979,"body":"But, you know, we got one last"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1006.979,"endTime":1010.429,"body":"thing in America, I sort of an"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1006.979,"endTime":1010.429,"body":"American Graffiti, like, we love"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1010.429,"endTime":1014.329,"body":"our cars, Don't screw with our"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1010.429,"endTime":1014.329,"body":"cars. And then we get like, the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1014.329,"endTime":1019.699,"body":"Japan is now screwing with our"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1014.329,"endTime":1019.699,"body":"like our apple pie and cars. And"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1020.059,"endTime":1023.239,"body":"in this documentary that tells"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1020.059,"endTime":1023.239,"body":"us that the reason why our cars"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1023.239,"endTime":1026.749,"body":"are getting screwed with is"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1023.239,"endTime":1026.749,"body":"because some American help do"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1026.749,"endTime":1029.869,"body":"it. So that's the hook. But the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1026.749,"endTime":1029.869,"body":"thing I found the most"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1029.869,"endTime":1030.619,"body":"fascinating"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1030.86,"endTime":1033.71,"body":"question, what do"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1030.86,"endTime":1033.71,"body":"you think Americans felt like?"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1033.92,"endTime":1037.01,"body":"Do you think you feel worse?"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1033.92,"endTime":1037.01,"body":"Because we have the knowledge"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1037.01,"endTime":1039.35,"body":"and we let it get away? Or do"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1037.01,"endTime":1039.35,"body":"you think people feel better"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1039.35,"endTime":1044.48,"body":"because they, we can do this? If"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1039.35,"endTime":1044.48,"body":"there was an American behind the"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1044.48,"endTime":1048.14,"body":"scenes? Like, there's American"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1044.48,"endTime":1048.14,"body":"behind the scenes, after all,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1048.169,"endTime":1051.229,"body":"I think the former"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1048.169,"endTime":1051.229,"body":"is, like, they just didn't, they"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1051.229,"endTime":1054.499,"body":"were clueless, they just didn't"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1051.229,"endTime":1054.499,"body":"know what had happened. I talked"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1054.499,"endTime":1058.009,"body":"about what he did pre war, ya"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1054.499,"endTime":1058.009,"body":"know, and then they just throw"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1058.009,"endTime":1060.889,"body":"it all away. So I don't think"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1058.009,"endTime":1060.889,"body":"that was on anybody's mind. I"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1060.889,"endTime":1065.089,"body":"think there probably was an"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1060.889,"endTime":1065.089,"body":"element of like, oh, we could do"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1065.089,"endTime":1068.119,"body":"this. It was an American Horse."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1065.089,"endTime":1068.119,"body":"It was American. Yeah. Like,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1068.3,"endTime":1069.74,"body":"so it's"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1068.3,"endTime":1069.74,"body":"interesting. I think starting"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1069.74,"endTime":1072.26,"body":"the book that way is because it"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1069.74,"endTime":1072.26,"body":"is such a compelling story."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1072.29,"endTime":1075.83,"body":"Yeah, it brings along so you may"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1072.29,"endTime":1075.83,"body":"have seen as a kid, or, like, it"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1075.83,"endTime":1079.73,"body":"brings something that, that it's"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1075.83,"endTime":1079.73,"body":"a cultural and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1079.76,"endTime":1082.76,"body":"phenomenon at the time that was"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1079.76,"endTime":1082.76,"body":"like that was was going on, but"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1083.42,"endTime":1085.61,"body":"it's not a history book. 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So I mean, how in"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1096.83,"endTime":1100.01,"body":"your mind, how do you draw the"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1096.83,"endTime":1100.01,"body":"connection between the"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1100.01,"endTime":1103.61,"body":"historical storytelling of you"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1100.01,"endTime":1103.61,"body":"know, where these ideas came"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1103.61,"endTime":1108.92,"body":"from? But what's the value"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1103.61,"endTime":1108.92,"body":"today? Like? How do you draw"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1108.92,"endTime":1112.07,"body":"that connection to what's going"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1108.92,"endTime":1112.07,"body":"on today, and the things that,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1112.34,"endTime":1114.95,"body":"you know, you hear about, you"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1112.34,"endTime":1114.95,"body":"know, kind of the evolution of,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1114.98,"endTime":1118.97,"body":"of lean, right, and agile DevOps"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1114.98,"endTime":1118.97,"body":"and, and then you've got the"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1118.97,"endTime":1121.22,"body":"digital transformation. And"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1118.97,"endTime":1121.22,"body":"really, all of this stuff is all"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1121.22,"endTime":1124.7,"body":"sort of building on the modern"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1121.22,"endTime":1124.7,"body":"digital knowledge work factory"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1124.85,"endTime":1129.5,"body":"is all evolving and improving"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1124.85,"endTime":1129.5,"body":"based on the seeds of ideas."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1129.71,"endTime":1132.5,"body":"But, you know, like, why is the"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1129.71,"endTime":1132.5,"body":"relevance of the history in"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1132.5,"endTime":1135.41,"body":"learning about this? How do you"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1132.5,"endTime":1135.41,"body":"apply it to today? How do you"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1135.41,"endTime":1136.37,"body":"draw those connections? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1136.37,"endTime":1138.98,"body":"no, you you"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1136.37,"endTime":1138.98,"body":"actually helped me, you know,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1138.98,"endTime":1141.98,"body":"because one of the things I did"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1138.98,"endTime":1141.98,"body":"early on, which was, you know,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1141.98,"endTime":1144.23,"body":"I've worked with this"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1141.98,"endTime":1144.23,"body":"consultant, and he's helped me"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1144.23,"endTime":1146.45,"body":"write the book. And, and we're"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1144.23,"endTime":1146.45,"body":"working on another book"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1146.45,"endTime":1150.74,"body":"together. 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And in the, you"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1161.57,"endTime":1166.16,"body":"know, you were like, you know,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1166.16,"endTime":1169.52,"body":"what, if there's a way for you"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1166.16,"endTime":1169.52,"body":"to sort of show that connection,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1169.55,"endTime":1171.65,"body":"because when you"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1169.55,"endTime":1171.65,"body":"read working backwards, and you"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1171.65,"endTime":1175.16,"body":"understand, that's the right"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1171.65,"endTime":1175.16,"body":"Amazon, it's about, it's about"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1175.16,"endTime":1178.13,"body":"how Amazon, their operating"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1175.16,"endTime":1178.13,"body":"model, I guess we say, for"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1178.13,"endTime":1181.43,"body":"inside their company for making"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1178.13,"endTime":1181.43,"body":"decisions and, you know, and how"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1181.43,"endTime":1185.24,"body":"they manage, you know, to the"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1181.43,"endTime":1185.24,"body":"outcomes they get, but you read"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1185.24,"endTime":1188.63,"body":"about it's like, oh, it's it's"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1185.24,"endTime":1188.63,"body":"it's a pull based model, right."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1188.78,"endTime":1191.18,"body":"Yeah, the other person he goes,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1188.78,"endTime":1191.18,"body":"Oh, it's let's leave, right."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1191.18,"endTime":1194.6,"body":"It's like it's all so it's all"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1191.18,"endTime":1194.6,"body":"in so it's me. I was like, wait"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1194.6,"endTime":1197.09,"body":"a minute, like, this is just"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1194.6,"endTime":1197.09,"body":"like this thing hanging out"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1197.09,"endTime":1200.69,"body":"there in the world like Amazon."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1197.09,"endTime":1200.69,"body":"Does this Yeah. But it's like,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1200.69,"endTime":1201.59,"body":"but where did that come"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1201.59,"endTime":1203.36,"body":"from? It's even"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1201.59,"endTime":1203.36,"body":"better. So like, you know, in"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1203.36,"endTime":1206.12,"body":"the beginning in the prologue, I"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1203.36,"endTime":1206.12,"body":"had this line that said, you"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1206.12,"endTime":1208.7,"body":"know, I pulled the thread I"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1206.12,"endTime":1208.7,"body":"found the tapestry, right. So"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1208.7,"endTime":1212.75,"body":"from that, I started researching"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1208.7,"endTime":1212.75,"body":"and probably Jeff Bezos said the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1212.75,"endTime":1216.98,"body":"most significant person in all"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1212.75,"endTime":1216.98,"body":"of Amazon is a guy named Jeff"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1216.98,"endTime":1221.24,"body":"Wilkie. So Jeff Wilkie is"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1216.98,"endTime":1221.24,"body":"basically part of like, he's six"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1221.24,"endTime":1225.47,"body":"sigma, he's, he's documented on"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1221.24,"endTime":1225.47,"body":"lean, he's an expert. And also"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1225.47,"endTime":1227.84,"body":"what is Amazon getting to a"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1225.47,"endTime":1227.84,"body":"point they've got to change the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1227.84,"endTime":1230.42,"body":"game and distribution? And one"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1227.84,"endTime":1230.42,"body":"of the things that, you know,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1230.48,"endTime":1232.79,"body":"good or bad Bezos side, you"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1230.48,"endTime":1232.79,"body":"know, I don't care what you"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1232.79,"endTime":1236.12,"body":"think of him like that his one"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1232.79,"endTime":1236.12,"body":"of his strongest qualities is to"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1236.12,"endTime":1238.85,"body":"know what he doesn't know. And"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1236.12,"endTime":1238.85,"body":"he knew we had to find somebody"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1238.85,"endTime":1241.88,"body":"she brings in Wilkie. Wilkie"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1238.85,"endTime":1241.88,"body":"basically redefines"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1241.88,"endTime":1245.6,"body":"distribution, for retail, you"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1241.88,"endTime":1245.6,"body":"know, the distribution, the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1245.6,"endTime":1248.36,"body":"distribution centers, the model,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1245.6,"endTime":1248.36,"body":"all that stuff. It's all in that"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1248.36,"endTime":1253.46,"body":"book. What's interesting is as"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1248.36,"endTime":1253.46,"body":"I'm pulling that thread, you"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1253.46,"endTime":1256.97,"body":"just got hired at the same exact"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1253.46,"endTime":1256.97,"body":"time for a very similar problem"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1257.24,"endTime":1262.25,"body":"for shipping computers. Tim"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1257.24,"endTime":1262.25,"body":"Cook. So Tim Cook is a supplier"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1262.28,"endTime":1266.57,"body":"that goes to art with Auburn,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1262.28,"endTime":1266.57,"body":"but he's he's a sort of genius"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1266.6,"endTime":1270.02,"body":"supply chain guy. Yeah, all lean"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1266.6,"endTime":1270.02,"body":"and all that. So if you look at"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1270.02,"endTime":1274.31,"body":"what Apple and Amazon have been"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1270.02,"endTime":1274.31,"body":"sort of the paved road, what's"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1274.31,"endTime":1279.8,"body":"happened there? Undeniably goes"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1274.31,"endTime":1279.8,"body":"back to Deming, right? I mean, I"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1279.8,"endTime":1282.35,"body":"can't find the right coach"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1279.8,"endTime":1282.35,"body":"Wilkie saying I read Deming and"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1282.35,"endTime":1285.2,"body":"did this but like, if you look"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1282.35,"endTime":1285.2,"body":"at his background, and you look"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1285.2,"endTime":1290.33,"body":"at Tim Cook's background, right?"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1285.2,"endTime":1290.33,"body":"And so like, and so like, I"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1290.33,"endTime":1293.48,"body":"think we've talked over and over"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1290.33,"endTime":1293.48,"body":"and over about, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1293.69,"endTime":1297.11,"body":"blowing up my Deming to DevOps"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1293.69,"endTime":1297.11,"body":"presentation, right, which is,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1297.35,"endTime":1302.03,"body":"like, you know, it starts with"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1297.35,"endTime":1302.03,"body":"Deming, it turns into Toyota 30"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1302.03,"endTime":1305.51,"body":"becomes lean, agile. So that"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1302.03,"endTime":1305.51,"body":"becomes a sort of a drafting of"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1305.51,"endTime":1308.72,"body":"that. And DevOps is all the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1305.51,"endTime":1308.72,"body":"above put together. So it all"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1308.72,"endTime":1312.26,"body":"goes back to Deming, but when I"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1308.72,"endTime":1312.26,"body":"was able to thread and so the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1312.26,"endTime":1317.33,"body":"last third of my book is all"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1312.26,"endTime":1317.33,"body":"about the sort of future, like"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1317.33,"endTime":1320.99,"body":"the stuff that a Deming set the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1317.33,"endTime":1320.99,"body":"seed for, which changed"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1321.02,"endTime":1324.59,"body":"everything, you know, and again,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1321.02,"endTime":1324.59,"body":"we I can tell more stories, I"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1324.59,"endTime":1327.77,"body":"still have to cut more pages out"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1324.59,"endTime":1327.77,"body":"of my book, but but, you know,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1327.8,"endTime":1332.99,"body":"right now, 350 pages, but the,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1327.8,"endTime":1332.99,"body":"so I even cut down on the Tim"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1332.99,"endTime":1336.29,"body":"Cook story, but like, like, like"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1332.99,"endTime":1336.29,"body":"we could use just those two as"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1336.29,"endTime":1339.26,"body":"poster children for like, Oh, my"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1336.29,"endTime":1339.26,"body":"God, look what happened there."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1339.44,"endTime":1344.12,"body":"But then. So part of that last"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1339.44,"endTime":1344.12,"body":"section of the book is his"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1344.12,"endTime":1347.39,"body":"impact, how it can directly"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1344.12,"endTime":1347.39,"body":"relate to profound knowledge."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1347.66,"endTime":1351.68,"body":"But then more importantly, what"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1347.66,"endTime":1351.68,"body":"I started realizing that sort of"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1351.68,"endTime":1355.76,"body":"thread, the tapestry to get"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1351.68,"endTime":1355.76,"body":"built was, how relevant his"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1355.76,"endTime":1359.36,"body":"ideas with a cyber. So the end"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1355.76,"endTime":1359.36,"body":"of the book is all about what"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1359.36,"endTime":1364.46,"body":"what Deming do. Yeah, like, if"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1359.36,"endTime":1364.46,"body":"you're the executive order, and"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1364.46,"endTime":1367.4,"body":"Biden said, Hey, I thought he"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1364.46,"endTime":1367.4,"body":"was still alive. And he could"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1367.4,"endTime":1370.52,"body":"actually, you know, respond like"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1367.4,"endTime":1370.52,"body":"what would you like? What if"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1370.52,"endTime":1373.82,"body":"they brought him in? What would"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1370.52,"endTime":1373.82,"body":"he tell them? And I, I compiled"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1373.82,"endTime":1378.47,"body":"enough knowledge about Deming to"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1373.82,"endTime":1378.47,"body":"feel comfortable to say this is"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1378.47,"endTime":1381.11,"body":"how he would have answered these"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1378.47,"endTime":1381.11,"body":"questions. And then I use"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1381.11,"endTime":1384.62,"body":"examples like Josh Corman on"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1381.11,"endTime":1384.62,"body":"Operation warp speed, who"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1384.62,"endTime":1391.07,"body":"directly attributes to me you on"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1384.62,"endTime":1391.07,"body":"the coal and jazz that operation"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1391.07,"endTime":1395.09,"body":"Wapsi, which was the cold chain"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1391.07,"endTime":1395.09,"body":"for the vaccines now, that's"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1395.09,"endTime":1398.36,"body":"just, that's what Josh was"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1395.09,"endTime":1398.36,"body":"doing. Okay. And he literally"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1398.39,"endTime":1401.63,"body":"and I got a podcast with him on"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1398.39,"endTime":1401.63,"body":"this. He literally says it came"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1401.63,"endTime":1405.53,"body":"full circle, what he learned"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1401.63,"endTime":1405.53,"body":"about DevOps from us, he then"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1405.53,"endTime":1409.16,"body":"applied back to sort of non"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1405.53,"endTime":1409.16,"body":"software supply chain, like,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1409.19,"endTime":1412.34,"body":"right, that's what that means."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1409.19,"endTime":1412.34,"body":"Yeah. So you, you were involved"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1412.34,"endTime":1415.55,"body":"in the cold chain. But here's an"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1412.34,"endTime":1415.55,"body":"operation once you get the point"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1415.55,"endTime":1419.84,"body":"is, like, undeniably, Joss is"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1415.55,"endTime":1419.84,"body":"telling me the guy who basically"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1419.84,"endTime":1423.29,"body":"his one number one project,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1419.84,"endTime":1423.29,"body":"which was to secure a"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1423.29,"endTime":1426.83,"body":"temperature for those vaccines"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1423.29,"endTime":1426.83,"body":"and a cold chain, he attributes"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1426.83,"endTime":1432.23,"body":"back to what we what is the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1426.83,"endTime":1432.23,"body":"lineage of DevOps, agile, lean"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1432.26,"endTime":1433.25,"body":"Deming, or Toyota?"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1433.91,"endTime":1435.32,"body":"You know, only"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1433.91,"endTime":1435.32,"body":"things that really kind of"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1435.32,"endTime":1437.81,"body":"struck me about when you're why"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1435.32,"endTime":1437.81,"body":"I think it's important to go"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1437.81,"endTime":1441.53,"body":"back to these stories, fictional"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1437.81,"endTime":1441.53,"body":"stories, because you think"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1441.53,"endTime":1445.16,"body":"you've pulled out the evolution"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1441.53,"endTime":1445.16,"body":"like you pulled out the like the"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1445.16,"endTime":1447.2,"body":"Genesis or some of these some of"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1445.16,"endTime":1447.2,"body":"these things where the problem"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1447.2,"endTime":1450.59,"body":"is trying to be solved. Because"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1447.2,"endTime":1450.59,"body":"I think why these chains exist"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1450.59,"endTime":1453.71,"body":"and why it's true is I don't"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1450.59,"endTime":1453.71,"body":"think any of us are no one's"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1453.71,"endTime":1456.41,"body":"really invented anything, right?"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1453.71,"endTime":1456.41,"body":"I think Demi is just a great."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1456.62,"endTime":1460.22,"body":"Oh, yeah, he's a great observer."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1456.62,"endTime":1460.22,"body":"And it's all like physics and"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1460.22,"endTime":1463.73,"body":"psychology, right? Like physics"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1460.22,"endTime":1463.73,"body":"mean, like flow and queues. And"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1463.73,"endTime":1465.65,"body":"those sort of things in"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1463.73,"endTime":1465.65,"body":"psychology mean, how humans"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1465.65,"endTime":1467.75,"body":"respond to the brain, how they"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1465.65,"endTime":1467.75,"body":"think, right? How do you get"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1467.93,"endTime":1470.66,"body":"large or how to get large groups"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1467.93,"endTime":1470.66,"body":"of people to do anything, right."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1470.99,"endTime":1473.81,"body":"And I feel like since the"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1470.99,"endTime":1473.81,"body":"beginning of time, whether it's"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1473.81,"endTime":1476.87,"body":"warfare or you know, our"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1473.81,"endTime":1476.87,"body":"business or politics or"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1476.87,"endTime":1480.83,"body":"whatever, it's all physics and"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1476.87,"endTime":1480.83,"body":"psychology, right? And I feel"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1480.83,"endTime":1484.43,"body":"like it's there's these sort of"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1480.83,"endTime":1484.43,"body":"human truths about these truths"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1484.43,"endTime":1486.98,"body":"about human beings. Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1484.43,"endTime":1486.98,"body":"observational truths, and they"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1486.98,"endTime":1490.16,"body":"don't always go with what you"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1486.98,"endTime":1490.16,"body":"think sometimes are countered or"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1490.16,"endTime":1493.04,"body":"counter. And, you know, they're"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1490.16,"endTime":1493.04,"body":"counterintuitive. Right, right."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1495.05,"endTime":1498.26,"body":"And, you know, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1495.05,"endTime":1498.26,"body":"interesting because scenes sort"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1498.26,"endTime":1502.16,"body":"of like such a foundational"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1498.26,"endTime":1502.16,"body":"observer of dynamics, through"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1502.16,"endTime":1507.65,"body":"those stories, helps you kind of"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1502.16,"endTime":1507.65,"body":"spot these patterns as you go,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1507.68,"endTime":1509.75,"body":"right? It's almost like I'm one"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1507.68,"endTime":1509.75,"body":"things I loved about the lean,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1509.99,"endTime":1512.27,"body":"you know, the the folks that"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1509.99,"endTime":1512.27,"body":"came after me and and really,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1512.39,"endTime":1516.5,"body":"you know, kind of tried to try"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1512.39,"endTime":1516.5,"body":"to describe it better, right? is"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1516.5,"endTime":1519.71,"body":"sort of the lean lens. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1516.5,"endTime":1519.71,"body":"Right. It's about developing a"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1519.71,"endTime":1522.92,"body":"vision, lean vision. And then"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1519.71,"endTime":1522.92,"body":"when you see problems, it's how"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1522.92,"endTime":1525.8,"body":"you understand the lens through"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1522.92,"endTime":1525.8,"body":"which the, you're gonna, you're"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1525.8,"endTime":1528.32,"body":"gonna break down the problem to"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1525.8,"endTime":1528.32,"body":"the physics and the psychology"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1528.32,"endTime":1531.56,"body":"behind it, and come up with"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1528.32,"endTime":1531.56,"body":"solution. And I feel like, you"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1531.56,"endTime":1534.98,"body":"know, building that lens is not"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1531.56,"endTime":1534.98,"body":"as easy as like reading an"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1534.98,"endTime":1538.67,"body":"encyclopedia, it explains it to"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1534.98,"endTime":1538.67,"body":"you. You have to, I think, the"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1538.67,"endTime":1541.19,"body":"experiential side, yes, toe"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1538.67,"endTime":1541.19,"body":"right click to him back to"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1541.19,"endTime":1543.98,"body":"DevOps, the, the culture and the"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1541.19,"endTime":1543.98,"body":"sharing part of the sharing part"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1543.98,"endTime":1547.07,"body":"of it, right, you have to kind"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1543.98,"endTime":1547.07,"body":"of go through that, by seeing"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1547.07,"endTime":1551.45,"body":"the stories by seeing the tales"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1547.07,"endTime":1551.45,"body":"you develop, that your lens gets"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1551.48,"endTime":1555.38,"body":"gets gets get stronger. 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Yeah,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1564.77,"endTime":1566.81,"body":"and you know,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1564.77,"endTime":1566.81,"body":"there's two things right one is,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1567.71,"endTime":1570.92,"body":"you hit on it and like it, like,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1567.71,"endTime":1570.92,"body":"I think this is a really good"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1570.92,"endTime":1573.38,"body":"book. Like, I think it's gonna"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1570.92,"endTime":1573.38,"body":"be perceived as really good"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1573.38,"endTime":1577.22,"body":"work. If I'm successful in"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1573.38,"endTime":1577.22,"body":"making it a great book, or"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1577.22,"endTime":1581.39,"body":"procedures, great book, it's"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1577.22,"endTime":1581.39,"body":"that I've, after five drafts,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1581.54,"endTime":1583.94,"body":"and a lot of help from people"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1581.54,"endTime":1583.94,"body":"like you and friends of like,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1583.94,"endTime":1587.75,"body":"why don't you do it this way. So"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1583.94,"endTime":1587.75,"body":"like, the sort of my network of"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1587.75,"endTime":1591.95,"body":"friends had been amazing, is I"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1587.75,"endTime":1591.95,"body":"wanted to make the thing I"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1591.95,"endTime":1595.88,"body":"learned about my book, which was"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1591.95,"endTime":1595.88,"body":"that like, nobody invented"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1595.88,"endTime":1598.97,"body":"anything here. Like there was"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1595.88,"endTime":1598.97,"body":"this notion of profound"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1598.97,"endTime":1601.52,"body":"knowledge. It was just sitting"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1598.97,"endTime":1601.52,"body":"out there waiting to capture it"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1601.58,"endTime":1604.31,"body":"doesn't here's my"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1601.58,"endTime":1604.31,"body":"point. Yeah, as human beings and"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1604.91,"endTime":1605.57,"body":"nature and human"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1605.6,"endTime":1608.33,"body":"and he put it in"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1605.6,"endTime":1608.33,"body":"his manifesto called Systeminfo"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1608.33,"endTime":1612.47,"body":"knowledge. The other point that"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1608.33,"endTime":1612.47,"body":"like, how I got into this mess,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1612.47,"endTime":1617.33,"body":"really great maths, right. But"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1612.47,"endTime":1617.33,"body":"is, you know, when I started"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1617.33,"endTime":1621.41,"body":"reading goal rat, you know, and"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1617.33,"endTime":1621.41,"body":"started really felt like, like,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1621.41,"endTime":1624.56,"body":"go rat was like, totally in tune"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1621.41,"endTime":1624.56,"body":"with him. And he is like, you"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1624.56,"endTime":1629.24,"body":"know, with all this, I remember"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1624.56,"endTime":1629.24,"body":"listening to beyond the goal."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1629.96,"endTime":1632.54,"body":"And there's a point and beyond"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1629.96,"endTime":1632.54,"body":"the goal and a great, great"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1632.54,"endTime":1635.6,"body":"audio book, great, like awesome"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1632.54,"endTime":1635.6,"body":"audio in the partner were"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1636.35,"endTime":1639.62,"body":"correct talks about Deming."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1636.35,"endTime":1639.62,"body":"Yeah. And he says, you know,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1639.62,"endTime":1641.69,"body":"even like, almost like he's"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1639.62,"endTime":1641.69,"body":"giving you a little tip. He"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1641.69,"endTime":1644.33,"body":"says, you know, want to know"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1641.69,"endTime":1644.33,"body":"something different. Deming,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1644.36,"endTime":1649.94,"body":"myself, Oh, no short, we're all"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1644.36,"endTime":1649.94,"body":"physics majors. Deming was a"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1649.97,"endTime":1656.24,"body":"mathematical physics. He got his"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1649.97,"endTime":1656.24,"body":"master's. And then I started"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1656.24,"endTime":1658.79,"body":"thinking, the whole reason I got"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1656.24,"endTime":1658.79,"body":"into the whole,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1658.82,"endTime":1661.01,"body":"I mean, physics is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1658.82,"endTime":1661.01,"body":"observing the world around you."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1661.34,"endTime":1663.74,"body":"Yeah, you know, and"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1661.34,"endTime":1663.74,"body":"they asked me one time, they"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1663.74,"endTime":1668.93,"body":"said, how does a mathematical"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1663.74,"endTime":1668.93,"body":"physics guy become, you know, a"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1668.93,"endTime":1671.66,"body":"statistical analysis guy. And"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1668.93,"endTime":1671.66,"body":"he's like, you know, I always"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1671.66,"endTime":1675.14,"body":"love the theory of IRAs, and"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1671.66,"endTime":1675.14,"body":"theory of errors, which again,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1675.62,"endTime":1678.62,"body":"and then like, he's lovely"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1675.62,"endTime":1678.62,"body":"squares like, so he saw the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1678.62,"endTime":1681.53,"body":"world very much like, if you"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1678.62,"endTime":1681.53,"body":"ever get to hang out, Mark"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1681.53,"endTime":1685.46,"body":"Burgess you like, you see a"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1681.53,"endTime":1685.46,"body":"world in a way, like physics and"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1685.46,"endTime":1688.67,"body":"statistics. Now, Mark Burgess"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1685.46,"endTime":1688.67,"body":"has told me recently, this is"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1688.67,"endTime":1692.39,"body":"really cool. I was trying to get"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1688.67,"endTime":1692.39,"body":"him to tell me like his view of"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1692.39,"endTime":1695.66,"body":"statistics and analytical"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1692.39,"endTime":1695.66,"body":"statistics versus a numerator."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1695.66,"endTime":1698.33,"body":"And I told him what I've learned"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1695.66,"endTime":1698.33,"body":"about Deming, and he said, You"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1698.33,"endTime":1701.39,"body":"know, I try, you know, in my"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1698.33,"endTime":1701.39,"body":"undergraduate work, I took all"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1701.39,"endTime":1705.08,"body":"the statistics and stuff,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1701.39,"endTime":1705.08,"body":"because I didn't, I realized"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1705.08,"endTime":1708.08,"body":"when I went into physics, I"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1705.08,"endTime":1708.08,"body":"didn't understand what"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1708.08,"endTime":1712.13,"body":"statistics were. So there's some"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1708.08,"endTime":1712.13,"body":"beauty in these physicists"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1712.31,"endTime":1716.6,"body":"looking at the world, you know,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1712.31,"endTime":1716.6,"body":"and go right says this is we"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1716.6,"endTime":1720.53,"body":"look at the world differently."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1716.6,"endTime":1720.53,"body":"Because we have a physics"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1720.53,"endTime":1723.74,"body":"background. And that was, that"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1720.53,"endTime":1723.74,"body":"was the original thread I was"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1723.74,"endTime":1728.75,"body":"pulling on is why are these guys"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1723.74,"endTime":1728.75,"body":"so counter to everybody else?"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1728.75,"endTime":1731.9,"body":"Yeah. And the threat my theory"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1728.75,"endTime":1731.9,"body":"was because they came out. And"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1731.9,"endTime":1734.9,"body":"not only that, they came out of"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1731.9,"endTime":1734.9,"body":"the second scientific"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1734.9,"endTime":1738.89,"body":"revolution, which is the quantum"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1734.9,"endTime":1738.89,"body":"physics so that there's so they"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1738.89,"endTime":1742.19,"body":"would light in a time when this"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1738.89,"endTime":1742.19,"body":"sort of Newtonian ideas will be"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1742.19,"endTime":1744.59,"body":"in sort of breaking apart."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1742.19,"endTime":1744.59,"body":"They're all getting a physics"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1744.59,"endTime":1747.95,"body":"degree when the world is"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1744.59,"endTime":1747.95,"body":"changing, which is like and then"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1747.98,"endTime":1752.06,"body":"you're almost can make the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1747.98,"endTime":1752.06,"body":"comparison of like Newtonian"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1752.06,"endTime":1754.34,"body":"management and quantum math."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1752.06,"endTime":1754.34,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1754.34,"endTime":1755.84,"body":"it's interesting"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1754.34,"endTime":1755.84,"body":"because it's, if you look at"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1755.84,"endTime":1759.47,"body":"physics is basically trying to"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1755.84,"endTime":1759.47,"body":"describe how the world works."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1759.86,"endTime":1763.01,"body":"That you said it's gonna layer"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1759.86,"endTime":1763.01,"body":"deeper, because classic sort of"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1763.01,"endTime":1765.14,"body":"management theorists, whatever,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1763.01,"endTime":1765.14,"body":"they have their conventional"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1765.14,"endTime":1768.23,"body":"wisdom built on top they weren't"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1765.14,"endTime":1768.23,"body":"really saying how do we"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1768.23,"endTime":1772.28,"body":"fundamentally look for the truth"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1768.23,"endTime":1772.28,"body":"and how this works? Right and"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1772.28,"endTime":1775.22,"body":"this fast and I was laughing"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1772.28,"endTime":1775.22,"body":"when you said about you know how"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1775.25,"endTime":1777.08,"body":"physics in the work in the"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1775.25,"endTime":1777.08,"body":"business world reminded that"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1777.08,"endTime":1780.56,"body":"movie margin call when they"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1777.08,"endTime":1780.56,"body":"asked the guy I can't remember"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1780.56,"endTime":1783.08,"body":"his name, the actor who played"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1780.56,"endTime":1783.08,"body":"the young Spock guy, but he, you"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1783.08,"endTime":1786.32,"body":"know, is describing how we"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1783.08,"endTime":1786.32,"body":"figured out this the this giant"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1786.59,"endTime":1788.9,"body":"financial problem they're in,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1786.59,"endTime":1788.9,"body":"he's like in it and somebody"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1788.9,"endTime":1791.75,"body":"asked him what his background"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1788.9,"endTime":1791.75,"body":"was exactly some math genius,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1791.75,"endTime":1793.67,"body":"whatever, blah, blah, blah. He's"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1791.75,"endTime":1793.67,"body":"like, so you're a rocket"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1793.67,"endTime":1796.52,"body":"scientist. He was like, I guess"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1793.67,"endTime":1796.52,"body":"so. Yeah. propulsion is like,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1796.52,"endTime":1798.71,"body":"Well, how'd you end up here?"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1796.52,"endTime":1798.71,"body":"It's like, Well, that's all just"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1798.71,"endTime":1801.83,"body":"numbers deposited. He goes And"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1798.71,"endTime":1801.83,"body":"the pay substantially the pace"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1801.83,"endTime":1805.07,"body":"of the pay is substantially"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1801.83,"endTime":1805.07,"body":"better. Right. So, you know,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1805.1,"endTime":1808.97,"body":"think about that, that diaspora"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1805.1,"endTime":1808.97,"body":"from, you know, from education"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1808.97,"endTime":1814.07,"body":"to physicists to, to business."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1808.97,"endTime":1814.07,"body":"So you know that that poll is"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1814.07,"endTime":1816.74,"body":"fascinating. But still, it's"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1814.07,"endTime":1816.74,"body":"about how do you describe the"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1816.74,"endTime":1817.61,"body":"systems as it were? Why"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1817.61,"endTime":1821.63,"body":"is Bezos a genius,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1817.61,"endTime":1821.63,"body":"right, he was a quiet little he"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1821.63,"endTime":1824.9,"body":"was a quiet that read this paper"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1821.63,"endTime":1824.9,"body":"about the future of bookselling"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1825.35,"endTime":1828.14,"body":"and dropped everything moved out"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1825.35,"endTime":1828.14,"body":"to Seattle and created a"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1828.14,"endTime":1832.61,"body":"bookstore in his garage. Right?"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1828.14,"endTime":1832.61,"body":"And because he had that math, go"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1832.61,"endTime":1836.99,"body":"on and on about this, but John"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1832.61,"endTime":1836.99,"body":"Henry, when he buys the, the Red"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1836.99,"endTime":1842.03,"body":"Sox, why did they the first team"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1836.99,"endTime":1842.03,"body":"to implement? I mean, Oakland"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1842.03,"endTime":1845.12,"body":"A's did it, but like, they"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1842.03,"endTime":1845.12,"body":"didn't scale it. Right. John"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1845.12,"endTime":1849.68,"body":"Henry scales it like brings in,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1845.12,"endTime":1849.68,"body":"he was a quad? Yeah, like, it's"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1849.68,"endTime":1852.74,"body":"the same narrative. They see the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1849.68,"endTime":1852.74,"body":"world differently than the"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1852.74,"endTime":1853.76,"body":"average person."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1853.94,"endTime":1855.83,"body":"Yeah. So one more"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1853.94,"endTime":1855.83,"body":"one more question for you here."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1855.86,"endTime":1859.46,"body":"And then we gotta we gotta wrap"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1855.86,"endTime":1859.46,"body":"up. You know, I always felt like"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1859.46,"endTime":1862.25,"body":"the system of profound knowledge"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1859.46,"endTime":1862.25,"body":"has a bit of a marketing"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1862.25,"endTime":1867.11,"body":"problem. It sounds like hubris."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1862.25,"endTime":1867.11,"body":"Yeah, you invented something and"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1867.11,"endTime":1869.81,"body":"you documented something. And"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1867.11,"endTime":1869.81,"body":"you called it the system of"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1869.81,"endTime":1873.56,"body":"profound knowledge. Like, you"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1869.81,"endTime":1873.56,"body":"know, like, okay, genius, right,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1873.56,"endTime":1875.99,"body":"like, so I just wonder, like,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1873.56,"endTime":1875.99,"body":"you know, how much of that is?"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1877.04,"endTime":1881.24,"body":"Is it a thing where it's,"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1877.04,"endTime":1881.24,"body":"there's a barrier to entry for"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1881.24,"endTime":1884.96,"body":"people into it. Because, you"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1881.24,"endTime":1884.96,"body":"know, they don't realize he's"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1884.96,"endTime":1889.01,"body":"not saying I'm profound. 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This is how you build"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1897.05,"endTime":1901.4,"body":"your like, this is how you the"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1901.64,"endTime":1904.04,"body":"the other person on their side"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1901.64,"endTime":1904.04,"body":"of the table, this is how you"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1904.16,"endTime":1906.65,"body":"are going to build profound"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1904.16,"endTime":1906.65,"body":"knowledge about the world that"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1906.65,"endTime":1910.67,"body":"you're operating in. Not I'm"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1906.65,"endTime":1910.67,"body":"profound. And I'm coming to give"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1910.67,"endTime":1913.79,"body":"you this profound knowledge."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1910.67,"endTime":1913.79,"body":"It's a funny, no, it's a funny"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":1913.79,"endTime":1914.12,"body":"marketing"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1914.12,"endTime":1916.94,"body":"project. Exactly."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1914.12,"endTime":1916.94,"body":"Of there's two problems. One is"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1916.94,"endTime":1920.51,"body":"that don't go back to that"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1916.94,"endTime":1920.51,"body":"person asking him about his"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":1920.54,"endTime":1923.87,"body":"experiences ban. 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But then he dies the year"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":2028.54,"endTime":2031.87,"body":"that the book comes out. 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But yeah, there's"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":2050.26,"endTime":2054.07,"body":"there's gonna be like, that's"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":2054.07,"endTime":2055.39,"body":"not gonna be the same story."},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":2054.07,"endTime":2055.39,"body":"It's"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":2055.39,"endTime":2058.12,"body":"fascinating."},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":2055.39,"endTime":2058.12,"body":"Well, that is true, John, it's a"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":2058.12,"endTime":2062.92,"body":"great book. I can't wait for"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":2058.12,"endTime":2062.92,"body":"other people to read it and see"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":2062.92,"endTime":2065.32,"body":"all the conversations that are"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":2062.92,"endTime":2065.32,"body":"going to come that are going to"},{"speaker":"Damon Edwards","startTime":2065.32,"endTime":2066.19,"body":"come are going to come"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":2066.189,"endTime":2068.259,"body":"down. So I mean,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":2066.189,"endTime":2068.259,"body":"again, I think the biggest"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":2068.289,"endTime":2071.709,"body":"takeaway that I like I said"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":2068.289,"endTime":2071.709,"body":"earlier, if I can convince"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":2071.709,"endTime":2075.759,"body":"people of this transition from"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":2071.709,"endTime":2075.759,"body":"this sort of profound knowledge"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":2075.759,"endTime":2078.639,"body":"that was waiting to be captured"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":2075.759,"endTime":2078.639,"body":"in a career that turned that"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":2078.639,"endTime":2082.509,"body":"into his last manifesto that had"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":2078.639,"endTime":2082.509,"body":"nothing to do hubris, but it was"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":2082.509,"endTime":2087.969,"body":"about improving humankind. Then,"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":2082.509,"endTime":2087.969,"body":"like then if people can see that"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":2087.969,"endTime":2091.239,"body":"in the book that I've done a"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":2087.969,"endTime":2091.239,"body":"great job. I think you have so"},{"speaker":"John Willis","startTime":2091.239,"endTime":2091.509,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2093.099,"endTime":2095.439,"body":"Excited Yeah, good."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2093.099,"endTime":2095.439,"body":"Good. As always, buddy. Thanks a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2095.439,"endTime":2095.799,"body":"lot. Bye."}]}