Know Dumb Questions
Know Dumb Questions
KNOW DUMB QUESTIONS: FT Amy DuBois Barnett Delving into Motherhood, Black Empowerment, and Life's Complex Dance
What if the nurturing bond between a mother and her son held profound insights about parenting, love, and personal growth? Tonight, I reunite with an old friend who has carved a remarkable path in their career, and we embark on a deep exploration of this intimate relationship. We navigate through her son's journey of self-discovery as an aspiring music producer, and unravel the often daunting process of college applications, magnifying the transformative power of a mother's love.
Delving deeper, we analyze the tightrope act of prioritizing parenthood and partnership, mirroring the numerous facets of life's complex dance. My guest provides profound insights on fostering core values in children—honesty, respect, inclusivity, and curiosity—a crucial aspect of raising well-rounded individuals. We also honor role models like Richard Brooks and Mark Lamont Hill, underscoring their influence in shaping positive outlooks for the younger generation.
Finally, we turn our gaze to the inspiring world of black women, celebrating their unique experiences, defying stereotypes, and advocating for collective empowerment. We delve into my own enriching travel experiences with my son across four continents, underscoring the lustrous potential of intentional travel for black people. As we traverse the lesser-known realms of women in corporate politics, especially within private equity, we emphasize the importance of community support and encouragement. Join us for an enlightening conversation, as we toast to the strength of human connection, and express our gratitude for the journey we're all on.
We are live, what's happening. Thank you so much for joining this evening. No dumb questions. You know, tonight's guest is a somebody I've known for quite some time. We haven't spoken in a long time, so you get to catch up while we catch up. But for real, for real, it's a real dynamo powerhouse. A sister's sister will refer to her as it's important that your sister's sister is. Simple, there we go See what's going on with the internet. Is that better, that better, that better? Alright, so tonight we get to talk to somebody who is a very accomplished person.
Speaker 1:We often see people in the media yeah Well, I appreciate that, antonia, I really do. I really do Days such as these but we often focus on people who are in the media, meaning in front of the scenes. These are people we consider to be famous and I don't think we often get enough of an understanding of the people, the stories behind the stories, why we see what we see and why we don't see. It's not accidental. One of the cool things about the internet, if there is such a thing due to being cool, is that there she is, is that we. There's a democratization of information and let's see if she's joining us shortly. There's a democratization of information. And there she comes. There she freaking is.
Speaker 2:What's going on, Sir? How are you doing I?
Speaker 1:am having time in my life. How about you? Similar I'm doing it, I got a million questions.
Speaker 2:Okay, let me fix the volume because you are super low. Excuse all my fingers in the picture.
Speaker 1:That's the worst thing that happens to me. Today, I'm going to be winning.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Everybody, please excuse this, probably have a really awesome shot of my underarm.
Speaker 1:Rocking. There we go. Okay, how's life on the West Coast?
Speaker 2:Oh my God, so that's true. I haven't talked to you in ages, so I've been out here. Now. More fingers y'all. I've been out here for about almost a decade now Living in the sun, I really thought I was going to dislike LA, but I got out here. I had this healthy New Yorkers dislike of Los Angeles for many decades and I got out here and I'm like, oh, this is pretty nice, right, right.
Speaker 1:Not having to wear a winter coat is a good place to start. Not mad, I'm going to let you play no about having it being cold, like, do you still people see, still people see, still see people in coats?
Speaker 2:I mean, I have become one of those like super annoying thin skinned, like West West West Coast people who are like you know, the minute it drops below 65, I'm like I don't know how I'm going to make it.
Speaker 1:You're not going to wear some cool gear, so I want to. I really do have a question for you, but you have a senior.
Speaker 2:I have a senior high school. I do, yes, I do. We are in the thick of the college application process. It is the seventh ring of daltes inferno slash.
Speaker 1:I'm so proud of him, so you know are you checking his email to see what he's gotten from schools and what he has or hasn't done? Are you that mom?
Speaker 2:Oh, we're so far beyond checking his email. I mean, we're, we're, that's funny.
Speaker 2:Come on, dasser you don't be a lot of time we want to get to him by checking his email. No, we're in the thick of it. I mean we're. You know I did hire some external help to help to to kind of project manage the whole thing, because my son is a music producer and so you know we're applying to schools that have music production programs, which necessitates a portfolio, artist statements, you know video auditions, and so it's a whole nother layer of stuff that I don't know a lot about from a college application perspective. So I hire somebody to help with that. But even so, I'm like elbow deep. You know I've edited every essay I've.
Speaker 1:I've edited cheaper more than a few magazines. You get that right.
Speaker 2:You know I have. You know I'm like. I'm like, look, kid, your mother is a professional writer. Link. Allow me to you know, place a semi colon If you don't mind, just let me add just you know explain to us dad's mother, son thing. Yes.
Speaker 1:What is it?
Speaker 2:What is the mother son thing? I mean, you know, you know, I think it is. It is just like you know, we're, we are, we are here. I mean dads are here. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say that dads are absolutely.
Speaker 2:I never say that my son's- father is in his life, like there's no part of saying nothing like that, but it's just. I think it's like it's like something foundational, like we are very foundational, mothers are very foundational in the sons in some kind of a really interesting way. I mean, it's obviously not the reflection that fathers provide, but it's like a sort of almost like the moral center, like the foundation. You know. You know and I don't know, I mean it's just the warmth and the love I mean that dad's provide to, obviously. But you know, in the same way there's daddy's girls you know what, I mean who, who you know girls who identify strongly with their, with their dad, or go to their dad for, you know, for conveying ship and love. I mean sons really rely on their moms. I guess what is it?
Speaker 1:that it means to moms, though, because it seems to be not just a parent child relationship. I've seen many daughters and mothers, and somewhere around 13 mothers and daughters. It seems like, like like someone's going to die, it's like a kumite at some point, like something is who's going to draw first blood. Right, but mothers can keep a son around until these. I don't know 78 and her baby.
Speaker 2:Hang on one second, Hold on. Sorry, Holder situation I have holding my phone up was like doesn't want doesn't?
Speaker 1:it doesn't want me to be great. Is working against you, Does that?
Speaker 2:one. I was like what's my phone? It's like a snow drop.
Speaker 1:He's sliding down with literally. I'm like so why is it that mom seemed to connect? So what is it that a boy gives his mother? It seems like only a boy could give his mother.
Speaker 2:Oh, that is a really interesting. I don't know we're going to go there. I mean it's really, it's weird, you know. I mean it's, I don't know, it's like you, you, when you, when you look at your son, you know I mean there's obviously some distance. It's not your daughter, right?
Speaker 2:So you're not like there's no sort of direct reflection of yourself that you're perhaps for some mothers I don't know, I only have one, one child, one boy, so I don't know, but you're not judging your son in a particular way as a reflection of you, right? You know, and so and you also, so there's that there is that sort of impeding relationship. And also, you know, you're just, you sort of feel like you're weird. So we're just feeling like making a man, right, you know, like I really have mothered the heck out of my kid and I have made such a good man, you know, and I don't know whether it's some latent sort of residual, you know, you know gender based power, dynamic crap that I should let go of as a. You know Gen X or whatever, but you know there is some. But there is something about like making a man. You know, like who's going to go out in the world and, you know be good to women. You know make his mark. You know be impactful. Like it, just it does have a feel to it.
Speaker 1:Do you feel like often the mother-son relationship can take precedence of the mother that I know? You have a very special person in your life, person in your life. Can they be at the same level? Can you love with the intensity of the son that you have with someone that's not your son?
Speaker 2:Hell, no, what are you talking about? Who are you going to love as much as your baby? I love my partner to the ends of the earth, don't get me wrong. But I mean your child is your child. I mean, it's a tough one.
Speaker 1:When you're in a relationship.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of you know, some theories or what have you, or maybe it's more like memes less theories, more memes. You know that you should prioritize your partner over your child, because you can always be another child, or I mean, I've sort of read this around the the internet over the past couple of years, but the reality is like, on a purely visceral level, like you, you, you it would be very challenging, I think, to love and prioritize somebody more than you're going to love and prioritize your kid. I mean, for most parents and obviously this is I'm saying from my point of view.
Speaker 1:I'm not asking you to make any grand statements.
Speaker 2:I'm just asking you because oh, I mean my kid is my. You know, my kid is like I mean that is you know, that is who I am sending out into the world. This is, this is you know. I mean this is, this is my baby. I mean from a time perspective, like you know. I mean you know there's there's definitely certain instances where I'm like, take that vacation with my man over to you, don't get me wrong. Right, Like you know, there's many aspects of my life that obviously you know my child is not going to remotely be able to, to fail or fulfill, but in terms of, like, the love and devotion and priority, it's I mean it's going to be my kid.
Speaker 1:I think you're. I'm so impressed with your career, but I'm more interested in people getting to know you, because I think that we are. I mean, they can IMBG whatever that thing is that thing they can do that.
Speaker 2:they can link it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll go over to you, right they can do all those things, and I don't think that that tells the story and I don't think that that allows people to reflect upon themselves when they're thinking, when they're listening to your story. A lot of women are following and watching now and they're like, yes, girl, for them it's not about profession, it's about purpose and how they manage the two. And what does it mean, as they also have an 18-year-old or 14-year-old boy in their life, whatever the number is that they put on that, but the boy is still in their care. And the reason why I ask these questions is because even on your social media, you're pretty heavy in terms of your celebration and support of your son. He's front facing. What does it mean to you for him to be a good man? What does that mean? What does that represent? How did you define that?
Speaker 2:I guess what I'm saying when I think about making my son a good man, I think about giving him a notion of civic responsibility, so that he understands that he is part of something larger than himself. I think about him being honest, because I'm always like just be honest, it just eliminates so much drama it makes it so much easier.
Speaker 2:You have to remember anything weird I would say. I think about him being respectful of everybody, of women, of folks I say folks I mean literally everyone which to my mind means being very inclusive. I'm absolutely embracing him to be inclusive. We don't tolerate any kind of phobias or isms or anything. There's no discrimination in our household. I will not tolerate it. He knows that. I want him to be adventurous, a global citizen, a citizen of the world, unafraid you're comfortable be anywhere in any environment curious, and then unafraid to follow his curiosity. I just want him to really follow his passions, follow the things he's excellent at, he's musically gifted. I think for him, being a good man is going to be is really exploring that gift and bringing it into the world.
Speaker 2:That's how he's going to be a back home.
Speaker 1:You know a lot of people who a lot of us know, and I'm not going to ask you to name anyone in particular, but who are some of the people that you do know. You do feel comfortable mentioning who. You would feel comfortable with your son emulating, oh, emulating. Well, definitely my partner Richard Brooks, Everybody may not know who I, you know, we, you, everyone knows who Richard Brooks is. He's the guy who, if you saw him at a grocery store, be like ain't you, weren't you? And it may be Nobody does.
Speaker 2:I'm not even directing that moment, oh you?
Speaker 1:Did we go to high school together, like because we all know Richard Brooks? He's a very accomplished actor and seems like a really solid dude, seems like a really solid dude Really good yeah, Really, yeah, really, like you know, really smart really dedicated really
Speaker 2:hardworking, really kind, musically gifted as well as being a classically trained actor, and so he's definitely somebody that I mean. Frankly, you know, I don't know that I would have been able to be partnered with somebody this long or have somebody you know live with us. You know that that I was not comfortable with my son emulating. You know, I really I think that that is really, really, really important. You know, I think that there is, like there are, artists. You know that I that I figure interesting, you know, for my son to emulate. I think there's, there's, you know, certain kinds of commentators. I mean, I don't know, I really you know guys like Mark Lamont Hill, for example. You know, who really smart, really stand by. You know their perspective. You know Mark said if you ever hear this, he'll be really surprised.
Speaker 1:But that's, that's high cotton of a compliment.
Speaker 2:No, no, that's what I mean, that's what I'm saying. I mean, I think he would be a compliment. Yeah, big up to you, yeah no, of course, because I mean, you know, but I just he's sort of springing me to my right now because I admire I've long admired the sense that he's taken around, you know, the we don't have to get to politics here, but around.
Speaker 1:This is the conversation, and, and, and I you know for real.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's got Cajones and I really appreciate that and you know he's also a good person, you know, and so it's just it's people like that, people who are, who are, have conviction, who are kind and generous and follow their passion, like those are the folks that I want my son to to follow.
Speaker 1:When you think about the complexity of the world within which we're in, what are you afraid of for your son?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I'm afraid of. You know the onset of dictatorship. You know Christian evangelic evangelism, christian evangelism driven dictatorship, come this next election, that will forever change the fabric of this country. There's that.
Speaker 1:There's that far.
Speaker 2:The top of my head.
Speaker 1:No, hey, you know, if you want to swing for something, swing for the fence, right.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying. Oh my God, my kid just joined. That's crazy. What's up, max?
Speaker 2:You know I am afraid of what we've done to the environment. You know I don't know how much of that can be reversed. And you know, definitely, if you know the election goes a particular way in 24, you know I will lose a significant amount of hope for any kind of reversal. And so it really sucks to have my son, you know, being this world, that my generation, every generation, have been destroyed and ignored every single kind of warning.
Speaker 2:I mean it's ridiculous, you know, and it just feels like right now, also in the world, you know there's just increasing divides between you know, billionaires who are, you know, sending rockets into space, you know, because of vanity, and people who are just in desperate poverty, like that divide seems to be winding, you know, and it's a very challenging place, I think, for somebody to grow up and make their way and figure things out. And then there's AI. You know I mean all this cold conversation might be moot in a minute because you know, I don't know if we go back in another decade. So you know, I think I am concerned. You know that there is inadequate regulation around.
Speaker 2:What's going on with artificial intelligence? That will it doesn't end humanity. That will really impact a lot of the professions that are critical to evolving arts. You know, like my son's profession, he's a music producer.
Speaker 1:What characteristics are you most concerned about developing in him?
Speaker 2:I inclusivity, curiosity, kindness, humor, because you really need that to get through this life. I think you know goal orientation, you know work ethic. You know, because it doesn't matter what your goals are. If you can't figure out how to work for them, then they're irrelevant. Everybody have a good idea, but you know how can you actually get her done? That's something totally different.
Speaker 1:Bye Brown for me.
Speaker 2:Oh, why did I go to Brown?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I went to Brown University.
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean, it was like it was the perfect, perfect place. For me it was amazing. You know it was a place of, like you know, just really interesting, like like creative thinking, like individuals who you know, didn't, you know want to be like so limited, you know, in their, in their opportunity and perspective, and it was just a really awesome and it was super fun. They had fun tonight. When I was there, every Thursday night we'd go like party outside. It was really fun.
Speaker 1:I think we were in Rhode Island at the same time. Obviously it was not at Brown. I was at the state school in state, but we were in the state, I think at the same time.
Speaker 2:Well, since Rhode Island is this big, we were like you know you could, you could go. If somebody here doesn't know you can, you can drive from end to end of Rhode Island in 45 minutes. So on the 95.
Speaker 1:From.
Speaker 2:Connecticut to Massachusetts 45 minutes.
Speaker 1:I had an ex-girlfriend who went to J&W Johnson Wales and so I went up there.
Speaker 2:I know where J&W has that pledge dealt with. Folks from J&W.
Speaker 1:I am familiar with some of the folks with whom I think you pledged. So you then came. You come out of Brown, you go to Columbia.
Speaker 1:Not right away, not right away. What takes you into media? You know because we understand you. Now we have a sense that you like you. The definition of you is a large part of mom. But before that, what got you and I connected is your work in media. You are a taste maker. Have been for quite some time now. Why the media? With all those brains, why put it in media?
Speaker 2:Well, I actually took a circuitous route into media. I started off in finance, which you know was not my spiritual home, which is put it that way, you know but where'd you work coming out of Brown?
Speaker 1:I'm sure they do Google out the cash.
Speaker 2:I worked on Wall Street at Chase, so I was a. I did one of those like Wall Street corporate finance programs and that was just not my jam.
Speaker 1:Second blue suits.
Speaker 2:Yes, so many suits and stockings, literally when I was I'm going to age myself here, but when I was on Wall Street, women were not allowed to wear pants and we had to wear hoes, like pantyhose, with our skirts. It was.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's so say the skirts, but I didn't want to put you out there. Yes, you every that. In that time pants were not off.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly. So that was really not my jam, you know. So then I left finance, went into fashion, got a certificate of fashion recognizing for persons and was an assistant buyer, order Taylor, which is a department store in New York. But I just always really wanted to to write, like writing was my special skill, writing was my deepest love, it's just the thing I cared the most about. And so I made. So I moved. Actually was a crazy thing to do at the time, was crazy thing to do anytime.
Speaker 2:But I moved to Ireland and and while I was there, to take some classes and writing and then develop a portfolio that I used to get into Columbia, and I guess you know the reason. You know why media I mean I was in part because I love writing and I love editing and I love words and I love books and I love all this books. You've always seen the background, you know, and. But I also, like you know, I realized when I got into media that I could also be really impactful. I could, you know, talk to the audiences that I cared most about. You know I could really like talk to. I had like a megaphone to talk to, like a bunch of folks that I really cared about and I could be positively impactful and I could just and I could do innovative things too, like the stuff that you were doing when I first got into the game. I mean, nobody was doing you know. So like what?
Speaker 1:give me some of the things that that you, because? Because when people read up on you, you know, amy, one of the things that happens sometimes is if I go to speak somewhere, you know they, my colleagues, will send over this ridiculous bio and I'll beg the person who's about to introduce me, who's been practicing this bio the entire time, please, whatever you do, please do not read my bio. Please don't do that, because that's just weird. Like, if you read that, then what else do I have to say? If I can't introduce myself in an hour, then chances are you shouldn't have paid me to come speak.
Speaker 2:But it's so. I'm always like we might buy it. It saves me the time to do it. I don't want to do it. No, no, no, no, no, no for me In fact.
Speaker 1:In fact, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I just say say my name and I'll take care of the rest. You guys, they can read themselves. If I can't say it, then then then you wasted your money on me, but in your bio yours is, I think, what it is that, as I'm looking at an Essence magazine award over there you didn't just get involved in some media, you got involved in some of the biggest, baddest, dopest black media in American history and you said you did some things that people weren't doing. Let's talk a bit about that in context. What are some of those things?
Speaker 2:Sure, I mean I let's see. Well, it's interesting. I actually started off in digital media and then made the reverse migration into a magazine Really, which at the time was like I mean, now it seems insane, but the time was a prestigious move, but it gave me an early sense of digital so I was able to integrate that into stuff that I was doing. But I started off probably my first big job in publishing was as a fashion and beauty features editor at Essence, and I was there at a very interesting time. You know it was like a time transition, you know.
Speaker 1:Susan, who was your editor during that time.
Speaker 2:That was part of it. Oh, my editor was Monique Greenwood, so it was so. Susan Taylor had just transitioned out and Monique Greenwood or had behind the she was still feeling the bill.
Speaker 1:Yes, she was.
Speaker 2:She had just transitioned, but she was so transitioning and Monique was.
Speaker 2:You know I had not the first editor after Susan but you know, very shortly after Susan transitioned almost felt like he was the first editor.
Speaker 2:It was very interesting but at any rate I remember she was I'm trying to remember now but regardless, like Susan was there, there was a transition happening and Essence was transitioning at the same time and you know, and I was, I was young and precocious and and and I was the process, like, while I was there, I was like making it. You know I was doing a business plan for my own, you know, magazine, but then I was essence. I was like, you know, I was sort of looking around I want to impact the space that I was in and I was looking at the market and like sort of seeing, like you know, the ways in which other publications were integrating humor, integrating irony, sort of adding sort of some texture to some of the ways they were approaching features or profiles. You know where it wasn't just like you and a person sitting across from the table, but it was like you and a person going hiking.
Speaker 2:I'm making it up now, you know, but which is a really lame example, but you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I got you, you know, and just kind of like trying to shift the audience because, you know, for a long time Essence is and which is a brand I love dearly, mind you, they will love forever and support forever, you know.
Speaker 2:But the time I think that they were just trying to figure out what their voice was going to be in a post-Susan era, and so I was part of the team that was pushing for more youth-oriented focus, and then I left Essence and I went right over to a Honey magazines editor-in-chief, you know, and that was a, you know, that magazine became really really culturally influential at a time when hip-hop culture was really at a zenith, you know, particularly in New York City. So the things that we did at Honey magazine I'm sure hopefully there's some Honey girls on, but you know the things that we had an amazing team, you know, at that magazine, by the way really incredibly smart, interesting, innovative women. I mean I had like a dream team of editors, so it was not just me like the folks that I brought in were like if you had the model you'd be like dang it, you know like really impressive, but we really, like you know, created something that had a special energy and a special sort of cultural impact and was talking to Ion.
Speaker 2:so it really had been spoken to before in a way that they that in a tone and with topics, you know, a topical focus that had never been there before. So it wasn't just kind of like the you know, it was a lot of, you know, politics and social impact, but it was also, you know, really elevated like fashion and beauty, but it was also like humor, you know, and like, and just just you know, like sort of poking fun, you know, at aspects of culture you know that were kind of ridiculous and just honey seemed like the smart, the really smart, alec, younger sister of essence, like it seemed like the younger sister, like the middle child.
Speaker 2:No, I'm not going to even go. I don't actually. I mean, because essence was, is really, it was and is, but was at that time its own thing. It really had like a certain kind of gravitas and in the spirit sort of capacity that that honey didn't have. We had a different type of gravitas right. We had sort of our finger on the pulse of culture, you know. We were, you know, kind of tackling sort of alternative topics in a way that the essence may not have been as comfortable with at the time, and it wasn't essence versus honey.
Speaker 1:No, I'm not saying versus, I'm saying that it's part of the same lineage in a family together.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean in that they both spoke to black women for sure. Honey was an interesting book, though, because it was the core, the overwhelming core was black women, but it was essence is a is an African American brand, ebony is an African American brand, vibe is an urban brand. Honey was an urban brand and so, even though the core probably more honey than it had Vibe was was black, you know, we had a bunch of folks who were picking up honey, who are, who were interested in urban culture, who are interested in urban aesthetic. You know, in the same way that urban is kind of like a psychographic, more or not. That's not a psychographic, but I guess it's based on cultural influences and that's tied to a race.
Speaker 1:Urban is the cool white dude who you went to high school with, who listened to all the music you did. There, it is there it is there it is. So you have been speaking to black women in particular for a large sum of your career. What is it that black women are saying back to you?
Speaker 2:Um, just well, in general, or about me.
Speaker 1:Sure, what if I were to say it about you in particular? No, but just in general. What are the topics that seem to matter, that most people wouldn't recognize?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's a powerful group that is often overlooked as we allow the conversation to shift into the gaze of white women and the issues, the duplicitous relationship that many have with both the opportunity to be in the majority and the opportunity to be a minority. Like women, don't get that choice Right Minority minority in terms of power, not numbers, but power. So what is it that people don't get about this, women, that you know they need to get?
Speaker 2:Um, you know, it's interesting. I don't think. I mean, I think that I think there's a lot of. I think there's a couple of things. I think in culture overall, like miniature culture, there's a lot of trauma porn, you know, that surrounds, you know, black culture in general, right, so there's just this sort of, I guess, overall feeling of of you know, like, oh, it's a black neighborhood, it must be down drawn in. You know what I mean. Like people just must be, like, you know. And then there's, on the other hand, like a sort of a I'm going to, I'm going to approve this like a hyper sexualized perspective, right, and like, oh, okay, well, you know they, they must be about this. Like there's like a layer of sexualizations placed on black women, you know, and I think that both things mask the a, and also like as people. Also there's another narrative that black women are very insecure, right.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of you know kind of, you know feeling of like not being worthy, etc. You know I'm not going to say that that's not true, but all of these things kind of mask the like, intrinsic joy, privilege, confidence that almost every black woman I know has. Like just in our soul. I mean it's really fun to be a black woman, it's fun to be a black person and it's super fun to be a black woman, like it's just really, really, really fun.
Speaker 2:You know, and I think that what I've appreciated is, over the years, watching black women convene more and more right. So we're getting more string from each other, we're getting more confidence from each other. We're sharing more information. You know we're starting to look to each other to develop generational wealth. We're starting to look to each other to, you know, some, upgrade and evolve the way we think about our beauty, our hair, you know all of that the way we think about our communities, raising our children, and so the more that we are in community with each other in empowering ways, the more you just see that joy and that fun. And now black women are like taking trips together. You know what I mean. There's like, yeah, a number of like folks who are like planning, like black women.
Speaker 1:I'm going to do what I'm going to just y'all get ready.
Speaker 2:I'm going to plan a trip for black women. I mean, there's just like trips and.
Speaker 1:I want to hear about this because you one of the things that you did that I thought was very interesting, as you worked with a group that did work with adventure planning, and it seems that it's like look, it's scary enough to be black. Let me not double down on the danger, let me just go inside a hotel in the Bahamas.
Speaker 2:And that that is. You know. It's funny you say that. I mean that is, there is all the cultural reasons in the world why, you know, black folks are largely more conservative when it comes to travel and our sense of adventure, and that's what I told you when I'm raising, you know, my son.
Speaker 2:I really want to instill an adventure in him because I think that it's just, you know, incredibly important to go out there and see the world and be confident enough in every single setting to feel like a global citizen, so you can go anywhere and experience anything and really live life. I mean, that's like my core message is really about living life as big as you possibly can, and this day is never, ever going to happen again. So what are you going to do to make account? And part of that for me, and that I try to instill in my son and also other people that I mentor and communities that I talk to, is going out and having adventures, seeing new things. Go see something new, put something new in your eyeballs, even if it doesn't have to be in, you know, I don't know Vietnam, it can be in another neighborhood, no, for real.
Speaker 1:Our guy, keith Klinkscale, just joined today with something to say, keith giving you a hug.
Speaker 1:So talk about that, because obviously the majority of my work is working with children and families who are poor and some of what is often attributed to black people really is a poverty mindset. It really is. Don't leave this neighborhood because it's unsafe to go to the next neighborhood. It really is. Don't eat that because you don't know where it came from, because you really don't know where it came from. Don't think that you're bigger in this neighborhood. Who do you think you are? And you have lived, you are living out loud and you're unafraid of the opportunity. There's our man, lamarck. Lamarck, tell him you love him.
Speaker 2:No, no, no that's not me.
Speaker 1:I thought it was like Mark Lamarck. I was like do they think that you do. But talk a bit about that's Max Lamarck. So talk a bit about this trip that you're thinking about, the types of trips that you're thinking about, that you would take black people on, because I'm seeing black travel groups and I'm seeing them in place and I'm like y'all better get out of there. Somebody gonna get y'all.
Speaker 2:Okay, max, you're a dude, my dude. I have taken my son, so Max and I, my son, max, we go on. I'm not gonna. I call the mommy and Maxie trips, if he still. He was on here for five seconds earlier.
Speaker 1:If he's still on.
Speaker 2:He has logged off. I'm telling you right now it's about to get gooey. I know I'm not gonna get gooey.
Speaker 2:I swear I will but, he and I take trips by ourselves at the point and I have now taken him. He's 17 and I have now taken him over the course of his life to four different continents. We have trekked the Andes at a 17,000 foot altitude, through remote Peruvian villages in the mountains to Machu Picchu. We've gone to Iceland. We've gone to Thailand. Together we've gone to France, I've taken to Mexico and I guess my point is just and I've done this in part because I love travel, but also in a very intentional way, to give him that sense of adventure and that sense of curiosity.
Speaker 2:And that's what I would love to do with women I travel with. I would love to take them someplace that either they've been and they would see in a different way, or that they would never even think of going because it was kind of far field from the places that we normally travel, and then plan some activities that are cool and fun and empowered, but not too small, Some of these ships. You look at the itinerary and it's like morning meditation, good morning meditation, New works off the meditation and you're like oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Then a trauma dinner, Right literally.
Speaker 2:You're like, wow, you know, it's just not.
Speaker 1:Is the sun out? Is it okay? If I don't, can I not sleep on? You know, Can I not? I don't want to do work.
Speaker 2:Do I have to make a vision board? Do I have to make a vision board every single day? Not the vision board Do I?
Speaker 1:have to. No Wait, are those scissors we're going to scrapbook? No, we can't scrapbook, right Do.
Speaker 2:I have to scrapbook and I'm not listen.
Speaker 2:I'm going to get some hate mail, but no disrespect, but I just I think there's something to me, there's something more empowering in the doing and the being and the being out there in the world, right In community, with some like dope women you know that you respect and you're having fun with and you're having a big adventure together and you're growing as people because you're seeing something new and you're growing with them, because you're in a community with them and you're experiencing things and you're sharing ideas, and things come out like evolution. Personal evolution comes out of experiences like that. Ideas come out of experiences like that. Connections, that that you create new things come out of experiences like that. I just I think that to me is a more valuable type of trip than than get your scissors.
Speaker 1:My introduction to black travel. I'm leaving it out. I I'm not a traveler, I just I. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm shocked after everything you just said.
Speaker 1:I am.
Speaker 2:I am. I am not.
Speaker 1:I am not, I yeah, it's not yeah, but that being said, I you know. I remember in my early 20s there were people who would do the black diamond clubs and they were right. Remember the black diamond clubs and they right. They were especially in the. So I know that the rest of the world is not from the northeast. So just wait, wait while we just do northeast things for a second. So black diamond clubs would be black people who would come together and they would go skiing. I mean, it was pretty much that they would go to ski resort. I don't know if they actually hit the slopes.
Speaker 2:I don't know if they did it now people. I'm not going to ski ice no.
Speaker 1:I. I know I've I'm going to tell you about that in a second, so but I don't know what they did or didn't. The point of it is that my introduction, coming out of public housing, I, into a world in which I didn't mean going to your aunt Eva May's house in Brooklyn Like vacation, was a time not just between school, it wasn't just breaks, it was actually a verb Like. It was a thing that you do not just a now and so the. I am interested in hearing more about what you, what you see, because I think that that's a really. I think that that's the next frontier among a lot of black people but a lot of black women, because a lot of black women are doing fine, as Mary J would say, and you know they've gone to college and got some bread and you know whether they are not coupled up or whatever the relationship circumstances. There's a, there's this undertow of adventure that's like tell me about Dubai, tell me about Vietnam, exactly.
Speaker 2:My friend, my friend Jody Patterson, by the way is taking a group of women to Vietnam. I think next, I'm not sure when the time is. I want to make her timing, I want to say it sometime in 2024 must be, but I want to say it's the fall, but regardless. I mean, how dope is that?
Speaker 1:great for me. Very long trip, but I get it. But I do get it, and I think that this is part of the narrative that doesn't come out when we talk about black women. I think a lot of times when people interface with black women, they interface with them, as you said, the sexualized, the insecure and somewhere in between. Right, not recognizing that there's this truly powerful doesn't have to be in your face in some caricature way, but truly powerful is often, more often than not, understated appearance and making big moves. Big moves find themselves in all the right places because they work three times as hard to make it happen. Right, and politics now, though still a small role. I mean black women in politics.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, politics right now is an absolute shit show. Sorry if I'm not supposed to press on your no, you can't go.
Speaker 1:no, if I haven't yet, it's because I just haven't gotten to that point.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's fine. I mean there are. You know, I mean I'm very proud of this drama. Well, let me take a step back. So yes, there are a lot of black women out there who are absolutely doing it. I mean I am so impressed with us, you know. I mean I, you know, I love black women to my soul, and not just the black women who are CEOs and what have you. But.
Speaker 2:I do admire those folks. But I just think that you know we are collectively accomplishing a tremendous amount and have shifted culture, have shifted politics. You know, from a voting base and based perspective, have shifted style. I mean there's so many different things. You know the black women I've done in this country and around the world, you know from a diaspora perspective.
Speaker 2:I just really I love my soul. You know, in terms of like, who is in politics in this country and you know this, this is. You know this is not a democracy. You know we don't have a democracy, right, and I mean I definitely encourage everybody to vote, but do you feel like?
Speaker 1:we're taken for granted by. You know, most of us are Democrats, right, Do you? Feel like the Democrats, take us for granted and and and know that we don't really have a home in the Republican Party. And so white women can, in many ways, uh, uh, co-op the black women's agenda by making it about feminism, which too often finds its role in, uh, white women's benefit. I mean, the numbers are real in terms of, of, of action. Who benefited most from that?
Speaker 2:So do you feel like?
Speaker 1:do you feel like there's a, because you feel like a. An African American woman, especially in national politics, has to fit really comfortably in that space.
Speaker 2:Um. I think there's people in politics right now who've just proven that. Okay, so, pushing the boundaries and and um trying to edge the narrative, um of the Democratic Party and of um black female, black female leadership in politics, um trying to push it um, push those parameters um and make it more um inclusive and um progressive Um, and so I really admire that and hope that continues. Um. You know. So, yeah, I mean I, I I feel like you know there's um a lot of um there's always likely going to be. You know um some kind of a mainstream um. You know narrative and um. You know systemic. You know power structure. You know that will um require us, you know, to be strong and fight and be tenacious and continue to figure out how to um. You know, collectively empower ourselves um in different ways and um while also pushing the boundaries of the existing power structure. So don't get me started on this. I am here.
Speaker 1:Listen, this is called no dumb questions for a second because you got to know the dumb questions, and and so for you. Do you feel like women in in general, as as a group, have your own distinct political needs, separate from a party for black men or white women or other other?
Speaker 2:racial ethnic groups. I think that I wish that politics in general were more class based. I think that actually, at the end of the day, the way the needs logically be grouped to be most impactful would be around class right. Like a uh, a lower middle class black woman and a lower middle class white man have a whole lot more in common than you know. A uh, you know then then. Then they think they do, I guess, I guess.
Speaker 1:I should put it that way Hell would agree with you. I don't know if others would, but Dave Chappelle would agree with you.
Speaker 2:But it is, but it's, I mean it's. You know, if we? Um. So I mean, I'm sort of I'm talking about your question, but, but I mean, if we started to vote collectively by what actually impacts us in this country, which is largely our classic strata, then the entire fabric of the country would change. That being said, um you know, that does not, that would not um likely shift the systemic racism that's found across our government, financial system, healthcare I mean black women.
Speaker 1:I mean, let's just, let's just say more black women die, uh during childbirth than any other group. So I mean so and that obviously exactly right Versus all socioeconomic strata.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right. That's what I was. That's exactly correct. So that's what I'm saying, that that, even though I think that the probably the broad scale most impactful thing we could do is to start, you know, voting as in, class blocks versus race blocks, um, you know that would not, um, uh, heal some of the issues that black women specifically face, you know, um, you know, at the hands of or as a result of, the systemic racism across, um certain all core structures in this country, for sure.
Speaker 1:I've seen, you know, you've seen it. If you've ever, if you've never, been to Essence festival, um, it's, it's hard to it's hard for people to truly, to truly understand what happens when 100,000 mainly black women from all over the globe decide to do something. When they decide to do something, it's done. It is done. It's not a conversation Nobody's like. So, um, the little ambiguity here.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no there is no ambiguity.
Speaker 1:When they take over New Orleans, it's, it's over, and uh. And I wonder where there ever an opportunity to harness that. How much more of the intricacies of the differences even among African American women would start to show themselves. Like we make jokes about the traveling, but but truly showing that even among African American women it's not a monolith, that even among that group there are just different interests in how beautiful a spectrum it is, even within the community. But that would have to be supported by some level of policy and politics that allow for such freedoms to exist, because you and I have seen too many colleges, universities, uh, as well as Fortune five and 100 corporations who hire the black woman to be a had, a DEI or the dean of students, and she's like in charge of everything and then nothing, or brought in to save, or brought even more super phone brought in to save an unsavable thing, that's
Speaker 2:that's, that's what they really like to do with us.
Speaker 1:They're something that's unsavable. Thanks Cause. That's a real thing that people don't I know like, like you know, brought in to save the unsavable school business, like we hired a black woman.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly.
Speaker 1:Damaged. Exactly True. So you are at a new phase in your life. Sounded like you went back to the beginning. Now you're in the finance world again.
Speaker 2:I sort of. I mean, I am, I'm doing a bunch of things right now, Actually.
Speaker 1:So one of the things I'm doing. Yeah, so one of the things.
Speaker 2:I'm doing is working in the private equity space advising a newly formed growth capital firm. Can you just say what?
Speaker 1:that is Cause everyone doesn't know we say these terms private equity, like everybody knows what private equity is Like. There's a public equity. So like what? What is private equity and what? What does that mean you would do on a Thursday afternoon for work?
Speaker 2:Well, private equity is companies that invest in, or funds and invest in companies at a particular stage of their growth cycle and help them scale their business so that they're so they can move toward a liquidity event of some sort, like you know, an acquisition or an IPO, or I'm sure there's other liquidity events are just blanking out right now, but those are the big ones.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So the equity fund or group is someone who sees a business idea at a stage and says you know what, if we pump some money into this, it'll allow it to grow to a point where it could be sold or bought, you know, or bringing other people.
Speaker 2:It's more than pumping, yes, yes, but it's also providing some operational support, some strategic guidance to help them scale the business, you know, so that they can kind of move. And this is, you know, in exchange for some equity in the company.
Speaker 1:So you're back in that, but you're not wearing hose and the blue skirt.
Speaker 2:Yes, you know. I mean, you don't know that, dr Steve?
Speaker 1:I'm going to go with the hose. The hose didn't make it.
Speaker 2:No, no, the hose did not make it. I'm kind of a. I'm kind of a.
Speaker 1:I'm like a California girl now it's really crazy.
Speaker 2:I was really like into fashion for so many years in New York and now I'm like wearing yoga pants and, like you know, like baggy cargoes. It's super crazy. Anyway, kicks, always sneakers. So that's just one of the things that I'm doing. I am also getting certified as a life coach and executive coach and I'm about to launch a practice around that. That will have some limited one-to-one opportunities, but I'm more interested in bringing groups of people together. So it was kind of funny that we started talking about events, because one of the things I really want to do, that I'm going to start doing, is conferences for women of color around the country that have your particular themes relating to this.
Speaker 1:We need to talk after this I'd love to have some conversation with you about this, so that sounds very interesting. So life slash executive coaching. You're going to launch that, and you, I mean, if you can't, then nobody can. You have been an executive more than a few times and for quite some time, so what else are you working on?
Speaker 2:So I just finished a novel, shut up so excited. Yes, really excited so congratulations, thank you. I'm really, I'm really, I'm super excited. So I wrote a nonfiction book, an NAACP Image Award nominated nonfiction book.
Speaker 1:Say it for the people in the back.
Speaker 2:NAACP Image Award nominated nonfiction book advice book a little while back. But this is my first novel so I am working through, I finished it, I'm working through some news right now and then it's going to go to my agent. There is some some very early publisher interest.
Speaker 1:So I really coached and said that she bought your book and it was great.
Speaker 2:Oh, I appreciate you. Yay, Thanks so much. That's awesome. That makes me feel good. But this novel is really really great. I mean it's set in New York City in the late 90s in the world of urban publishing and urban music, Okay and it's, it's very juicy, A lot of like really interesting themes are touched and a lot of like you know, it's like a real page turner, according to the people who have read it so far.
Speaker 1:But, but, but, let's just be honest. You are featured in more than a few pictures with a few people who people know or used to know from that that era. So I would imagine that there are some composite characters who've made their way into this book.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh, yep, there are I. Just I know that when this book comes out, all y'all thought me call me like who is so and so, who was such and such, who is so and so, like? I'm just, I'm waiting. I just know it's going to be hilarious. And everybody's going to think this book is about me. It's not, it is pure fiction. But you know, y'all go think it's about me, so I'm going to just lean into it.
Speaker 1:You know what, but on some level, right as as the queen of the universe of your book, you, it is you, so you, it is the world through yours and borrowed eyes. So you're in charge.
Speaker 2:Yep, I have. Uh, yes, yes, I know of what you speak in, but what I'm saying is people are going to be like oh, they really think it's really you.
Speaker 1:This is a memoir. They think that the hose that you're talking about are not not hosiery, but someone else, and they think it's you on the down low.
Speaker 2:Is all I know is a you guys are going to be like. This is not a work of fiction, this is a memoir.
Speaker 1:Because they, honestly, are probably reflecting upon themselves and they're waiting for the freak uh doc to come out.
Speaker 2:Listen, whatever, all I know is that I can't wait for this book to come out, for you guys to read it, and then I can't wait for it to be turned into a mini series, or not a mini series, a regular series. I think it should be a regular series.
Speaker 1:Well, that I mean you. You have worked with one or two people who are in the world of media and the top of the top, everything from time ink to Disney and all parts in between. I mean BET and uh. So if you can't get it made, I don't think they're going to make it, I feel, very optimistic.
Speaker 2:I'm really excited you guys Like this is. This is something I've been I'm beyond passionate about. I'm really excited. So, um, I'm kind of in this really interesting point, um, in my career where I've decided to, like you know, do the things I love.
Speaker 1:That's crazy what a crazy thought, and here I am. So in six months your son's going off to college.
Speaker 2:Dude, I see now I'm so happy. I was really. I was really happy. I'm pretty devastated about my kid leaving me. I'm pretty devastated Like, on one hand, I have built this child, I've raised him to be independent and to go forth into the world.
Speaker 1:On the other hand.
Speaker 2:I'm like, oh my God, my kid is going to leave me. I really like my, I love my child, but I also really like him too. So, uh, I'm going to be really sad.
Speaker 1:What are you going to do?
Speaker 2:Um party and the shit.
Speaker 1:Like baby, you got to go. I mean I'm sad, I'm mom's really really sad, like this is my sad face. But exactly what time again are we dropping you off?
Speaker 2:Listen, I'm not going to have time to do anything because I'm going to be working like I've already working. Four or five jobs I've been working six seven jobs, trying to pay for him, for his number one choice college, which is, by the way, nyu, the Tish, the Clive Davis Institute of Recorded Music. Um, so you know, if he gets into that school, which I know he will, um, you know I won't have any extra time. What will matter?
Speaker 1:I'm working six, seven jobs. It's only $78,000 a year to go to NYU.
Speaker 2:Uh, cost of attendance is $100,000 a year. There we go.
Speaker 1:I was just giving you the uh, I was giving you just the tuition, I was giving you the fees.
Speaker 2:You already know I wake up in the middle of the night like who does that?
Speaker 1:Tree jobs just to pay for this thing, oh my God, I really love my kid, though I'm so happy for and proud of you, sis.
Speaker 2:I really am.
Speaker 1:You know you remain solid. It's a solid citizen. I've been cheering for you for years and then I continue to do so. I, I, I love the way you love the life that you've been given and and what you're making of it, and I love what you do for our community. So I thank you sincerely for all that you do and, and every single time I see it, I'm like go you. So thank you for taking the time out. Is there anything else you want to push? Let folks know that you're doing them where they can get you. And this book does it have a name that they can hear just yet, or is it?
Speaker 2:not, I did. Us have them. They can hear. So my book is called sugar and I cannot give you a publication date because it does not have one yet.
Speaker 1:So but do you have a publisher?
Speaker 2:I do not yet, so it's good. I have publisher interest but I have an agent, so I know it's. I mean, I do know it's going to get sold. I have, like, I do know this, but I'm just not sure I have one. I hopefully the person who's interested in it right now will be the ultimate person, because I just love her very much, but I do know that it will be sold. But you guys, if you, you know, follow me on social and and I'll, you know, keep everybody posted on what goes on with the, with the, with the novel publishing date, the series that's going to be turned into and everything else is going on because I am going to launch practice around coaching and a corresponding event business.
Speaker 1:So I'm really excited to see everybody there and the and the travel like girl. That's part of it.
Speaker 2:That's going to be part of it. That's probably, like you know, stage two.
Speaker 1:I am so happy for you and I really am. You know, I genuinely wish you the best and you know, richard, keep on smiling, keep on shining. We are rooting for you. Thank you so much for taking time out. I really appreciate you. I always believe the smartest person in the room is the one with the best questions, not the best answer. I just want to keep on asking the questions. Thank you so much, I really appreciate you. Well, I appreciate you too.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me my pleasure. Take good care. Okay, you're welcome.