Know Dumb Questions
Know Dumb Questions
KNOW DUMB QUESTIONS FT Joshua Powell: Unveiling the Heart of Co-Parenting, Advocacy, and Personal Triumph
When you meet adversity head-on, you begin to uncover the strength that lies within. This episode is no exception, as we welcome Joshua Powell, a former NBA player who has pivoted from professional athletics to advocacy, shining a light on the struggles fathers face in child custody disputes, particularly within communities of color. Powell's raw and inspiring narrative dives into the emotional toll of estrangement from a child and the stereotypes that label black men as absent fathers, all while advocating for parental equality and the importance of vulnerability in healing personal and societal wounds.
Navigating the treacherous waters of co-parenting isn't for the faint of heart, especially when it's entangled with legal conflicts and societal misconceptions. We peel back the layers of this complex journey alongside Powell, who bravely shares his own battles with maintaining character and peace amidst custody challenges. From the poignant heartbreak of loving from afar to the resilience needed to withstand the legal onslaught, this episode is a call to all parents enduring similar trials. It's a testament to the transformative power of service, open dialogue, and community support in one's path to healing and growth.
Finally, we turn the lens on personal development through the relationships that shape us, as inspired by Phil Jackson's coaching philosophy. The episode culminates in an uplifting reflection on the beauty of representing one's heritage on the grand stage, the significance of community backing, and the joy we find in working collectively. It's a profound conversation that not only highlights the shared struggles of parenting across gender boundaries but also celebrates the power of unity and collaboration in overcoming life's hurdles. Join us on this enlightening journey, and let's embrace the lessons that come with the complex yet rewarding role of parenting.
There we go.
Speaker 2:How you doing. Woo, have a time of my life, Good brother. How about you? You know what that means. The spirit is going to be on this call tonight.
Speaker 1:Listen when they're working that hard to keep us apart.
Speaker 2:We must have something I'm telling you.
Speaker 1:Man, I gotta tell you so many things that I want to talk to you about, and that's just real. I want to talk to you about the work that you did to become a professional athlete. So many kids say they want to be a pro ball player. So many mothers and fathers out there got their five foot nothing child up and down the east coast trying to get them into the league. There's that. And then I'm really interested in the fact that you are a stereotype obliterator. I mean, you're a reader. I want to know what books that Phil Jackson gave you that you read right, and I also want to know who else read them. I don't want to know who didn't, because I don't want to be that guy. But what I find especially interesting about you is you take the time, with your platform, to talk about something that is really freaking personal yeah.
Speaker 1:Yo man, Is it courage or is it frustration? Is it fear that has you talking about your child and your child's mother?
Speaker 2:It's more so service and helping others. At the end of the day and I've said this before and I'll make sure I say it here Well, first let me start by saying let me start back over Salute to you, sir. I got to give you your flowers, thank you for allowing me the opportunity to come on here and have this beautiful conversation with you, and I'm definitely excited about it, and what I was getting at was that I was. I was because of my spiritual journey. I have love and I'm trying to have as much respect as I can in my situation, and it's not easy.
Speaker 2:The person that I think about the most is my daughter, and I know, for me, I'm not the only father that's going through it, just like I'm not. There's mothers that are going through it too, and I don't want to exclude anybody, but I think it's important to speak about it because, for one, we all suffer in silence, for whatever that reason is, I know for me there were things that I experienced in my childhood that I probably could have got the correct help if I would have known how to voice what was going on with me. So that's another reason Sexual abuse, physical abuse, mental and emotional abuse, which we didn't know what that was back then, but at least the other things that were going on that I thought was okay, which I learned at 35 in therapy that no, that wasn't okay these things that happen to you this is what it's called and all of that type of stuff. So I say that to say there's a lot of households that are in communities that are built on secrecy.
Speaker 1:Say that Say that because that's real.
Speaker 2:That's real right.
Speaker 1:here I work with kids, and I see a lot of them holding secrecy right now. Like right today they're going home to the problem that will destroy much of their adulthood. Like right now.
Speaker 2:They're headed there, right now, right into the belly of the beast and I get it Like it's somebody that you feel like you love or somebody that says they love you and you don't want to get them in trouble.
Speaker 2:But I think what's important is, if you're trying to save both lives, that you got to step up and you got to speak to what your experience is, because for the most part, these kids don't really have an understanding Most of them and some of them they do have an understanding, but it's just important because not only can you get yourself help, but you can get the person who's doing the offense. You can get them help too. So there's a lot that's in there and I think for me that's the other thing, because when I think of so many fathers that are going through it, when I look at you know the death rate of, especially men of color and how it's decreasing and all of the things that's going on. One of the things that I feel is up there and I know there's stats on it, but we're being, we're not. We don't have access to our kids and that's stressful. And what do you do when you're stressed? You drink, you smoke or you indulge in whatever behavior.
Speaker 1:That's not probably the best way, but most people don't think that black men don't want to be part of kids' lives. You ain't part of that life because you don't want to be.
Speaker 2:Right, and there are. There are black men who you know they don't, but the majority, I feel and would love to believe that they do. The people that I talk to that are going through the same things as me, their voice and their struggles, but not publicly. You know what I'm saying. So when they see me doing it, they're like wait a minute, you can do that. And I'm like, well, you should probably do it too. They're like, no, I'm good, but I'm going to live through you.
Speaker 1:So it's because, real talk, you had a cops at your house.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just went today.
Speaker 1:I just went today.
Speaker 2:So I learned some things that was what happened.
Speaker 1:You just went today.
Speaker 2:So, basically, when I was, I was working and I wasn't at home and the sheriffs showed up at my house to deliver paperwork. So now I come to find out that there's an order in place that wasn't filed, because now I have to show up in front of the judge in order to give my side before there's a decision made, and it really is unfortunate. You know what I'm saying. So, in regards to that, I can't say too much about that. But everything that you've seen, everything else that you've seen, like the other day, with the cops being there and me talking about what that was like, because you know they're voicing their frustration now because they have to keep showing up every week and then they're like well, y'all too are doing this to themselves.
Speaker 1:Everybody didn't see everybody. Everybody hasn't seen what you put up and it shows. When I saw it, I'm like this brother's either crazy or courageous because you told that the cops have. How many times the cops have been yours or your child's mother's crib? How many times?
Speaker 2:So there's been at least 30 plus calls cases. Excuse me not calls, but we have multiple cases, like where there's she has a case or I have a case and how long has that been?
Speaker 1:35? In what period of time?
Speaker 2:He just said that. I know it's more than that, but that's what he said it.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's what he said at that time, that's conservative.
Speaker 2:That's what's going on these past two or three, two and a half years, so that's like every other week. So I was explaining to him. I said, listen, I only call you all because I'm not getting her, Not for no other reason. I can call y'all for more things, but I'm just not getting my time. I just would love to have my time so with your child is what you're saying yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Not trying to get back with your ex or anything like that. No no no, this is just you trying to spend time with your daughter.
Speaker 2:That's it. That's it. So why is it so complicated? Because emotions are involved and you know she's upset, I get it. That doesn't mean I have to agree with how she's handling it, but in what she's so mad about, like what she or so upset about.
Speaker 2:So I have to generalize this, but I would like to believe that in a lot of situations, whether it's the man or the woman that there, that one side feels that there's unfinished business and if somebody moves on or something else were to happen and they're like wait, you, you, you left us. You know what I'm saying? Like it's, it's all of the things that go into that which makes the person upset. They're hurt. You know there's there's pain or anger there and there's a lot of things that I could pinpoint it to. But just speaking to the whole, like that's pretty much why there's this lasting feeling of emotion that is carried on up until this day.
Speaker 1:She sounds like she's mad, mad brother, like, if this is what it. So let me just for the folks who listen so John, again great MBA career, got a new book out, things I wish I'd known we'll get to that. We'll talk about the book. But he right now is in the midst of a struggle that I see pretty much weekly, where one parent wants to be part of the child's life and for whatever reason for and I don't you know, as an educator, I don't really care what the reason is, I just need to know who I'm. A call when a child needs somebody to come, come get her when she isn't feeling well at school, like that's what I just what's happening to me grown people is of no interest to me, but I see it all the time and I see the child, I see the impact of the child on the child. Do you think or have you tried let me ask you this what have you tried between the two of you to reconcile this for the sake of the?
Speaker 2:child? Great question. So I've we've gotten family involved, we've gotten friends involved. There was, I don't know how successful, the attempt but therapy, we, we, we we're obviously in the middle of courting everything now because we have, now that we've gotten them involved. So it's like we it's not that you know, I haven't suggested different ways, but again, when you have a person, whether it's me or her, that's this, not an agreement, and they have it, they want to have it their way or see it how they see it. That's the other part, because some people, you know, when we, when we, when we talk about why doesn't therapy work or why doesn't this work or that work, and you have to have people that are willing to invest. And we have to have people who you know are looking to to do the right thing and be the the bigger person and focus on the thing that needs to be focused on and in that situation is the child and that's not the focus at the risk at the risk of giving light to things that you would say are not accurate.
Speaker 1:What is it that she's saying? Is the rationale that she has for not wanting you to see your daughter.
Speaker 2:Great question and out of fairness, and I don't have nothing to add. So, basically, what is being said, some of the claims that are made is that I'm abusive, that she doesn't feel that are you? No okay no, doesn't feel that basically I'm neglecting when she is with me, that I'm not paying attention to her, and you know every time she comes to me and goes back she's sick or there's bruises, or there's this or there's that, and are there bruises.
Speaker 2:So there have been incidences where she's playing because I have other kids too, you know what I mean. Or there was a situation that happened. We went to church one time and she, playing with other kids, like bumped her knee into one of the deaths like just stuff like that. So it's kids stuff. It's not like it's something that's going to raise the alarm of anything happen.
Speaker 1:Have the authorities been involved and checked on the bruises?
Speaker 2:No, that's what I'm saying, like you know what I mean. I'm just like, if I put it to you this way, if I was concerned, I know the efforts that I would make in order to really master gas on somebody taking a look into what's going on. I haven't had anybody knock on my door for a wellness visit or anything like that or stating that these are the claims or anything. I haven't had de-facts to anybody like call my phone and say, hey, you know, we got a call Like those are the things that I'm talking about. You know, has she done whatever on her end? She might have Again, I don't know, but out of it typically come.
Speaker 1:I mean at this point in the scenario and what state are you in, if you feel comfortable telling what state you're in.
Speaker 2:I'm in Georgia.
Speaker 1:Okay. So in most states that I've seen, it is typically the case when a situation has risen to the level that it is, and it sounds like with you, if there were allegations of abuse, it would seem to me that de-facts would be in your life in a real way, but you're saying they're not.
Speaker 2:I have not received a call or anything, and you know what I mean. And that's the point of like even us having like I'm not gonna shy away from nothing. You asked me and I'm gonna be honest enough.
Speaker 2:No, I appreciate it and I'm gonna be yeah, I just want to make sure I share that with you, cause I know a lot of times people for whatever reasons. Maybe it could be legal, I don't know, but for me I'm still gonna try to answer your questions the best way I can, because it's important. The reason why it's important is because, again, I know way too many fathers that are going through whatever.
Speaker 2:That's why I try to be open about the process. I try to be open about documentation. I try to be open like hey, if you're in a volatile situation, don't go by yourself or make sure you're recording, or make sure you're at a location that's safe a fire, a police station, a fire station, gas, wherever there's somewhere public or cameras Like these are the reasons why I go live. These are the reasons why I'm honest and open, because I also see too many times where we're being taken away, we're being thrown in jail, we're having to face all of these things just because a person says and it's not fair. So if we're not in a position where we're making sure we're documenting, if we're not in a position where we're making sure that we have the necessary things that we need in case something comes up, or the proper paperwork, then these are the things that's gonna get us in trouble. So-.
Speaker 1:I just wanna make sure that folks who know who are just joining us. I'm here with my man, Joshua Powell, who's played for seven NBA teams, won two world championships with the Los Angeles Lakers, was a teammate at Colby and Powell and a whole bunch of people who you care about. But what he's talking about is something that many men today, right now, are dealing with, which is they can't just go to the crib and pick up their child from the child's mother's house, that the courts are involved, the police are involved and it doesn't sound like you are close to reasonable resolution.
Speaker 2:Well, no, not at the moment, but I am hopeful and I feel that some things will turn around as just a matter of win. But the other thing too right is from the standpoint of when I think about my daughter in this instance, or I think about mothers who are dealing with difficult situations and I think about how much hatred and stuff. Like I had a call today, for example, and it wasn't from another father, it was from another mother who's going through a similar situation and in that situation she's expressing what's gonna happen from the other side, the things that they're trying to put out and all of these different things. And even my advice to her in that situation was listen, do right by the kids. Do right in the situation. Like, don't allow yourself to get to a point where you start being deductive or doing certain things that's outside of your character. We have to care about these kids, we have to care about their well-being.
Speaker 2:And even for me, as much as I'm being put through certain things because this ain't my first rodeo, it's just this situation but I still want mom to be okay. Why? Because she's caring for our child. That's not. I don't have anything on my spirit where I'm like man bump. You know how that could be. It was like man bump or whatever.
Speaker 1:No, I get you. I get you. Listen, a lot of listen, a lot of listen, a lot of. And let's just be real, I know this and you're not saying this, but I am, as somebody who works with children every single day, a lot of times men and or women, but I'm just gonna talk for men for a second. Men will stay with the woman just so they keep the child in the house, just so they can be in the house with the child, and I know many men who may have had some brushes with the law are not prepared to engage in something that could have the police come through the grid, and so for a lot of them, they're just like you know what, when he gets older, when she gets old enough, they'll come to me and they just take a step back. Why haven't you taken that?
Speaker 2:You know what bothers me about that. What happens to my brother, kobe? You know what bothers me about that. What happened to my other brother, andre Emmett? You know what bothers me about that. What happened to my other brother, anthony Grundy?
Speaker 2:All athletes passed away at an early age. Andre Emmett was killed in his house like, not in his house but in his like, pulled up at his house, like in his neighborhood, and at the time when that happened he had two young babies. Two young babies, right. So we sit up here and say, oh, we'll just wait. I don't know what tomorrow brings and I don't wanna have the Kelly Rowland thing happen to me. Did you see the Kelly Rowland situation where she talked about her relationship with her dad, where, basically, her mother kind of planted some seed and I think her mom passed and finally, after 30 years, her and her dad was able to have a conversation? Who has 30 years to wait to have a necessary conversation with a child that you helped bring into this world? That's unfair. It's unfair first of all. It's unfair to the child, who's now an adult, but it's unfair to so many fathers. I watched the one clip where I what's up Zabana.
Speaker 2:She does all that work, yes, and she was addressing the family where the dad was accused of molesting his daughters. Yeah, that was hard and the mom had no, like she wasn't apologetic, like she in her mind.
Speaker 1:I don't think everybody knows this story. On a young list, fix my life, there was a mother who claimed that her children's father had molested the children and sadly really put the man through the ringer. I think he went to prison for only to find out that it never happened. He never did anything to the child under any circumstances and the mother who acknowledges that he didn't actually do or anything, she was just really really mad at him for reasons that still don't make sense to I don't think anyone who watched it To these days.
Speaker 1:So what? So what? What the power was saying is that, in that scenario, this is a man who was put through the ringer to be next to his children, only to find that the mother of the children had set him up real bad, I mean real bad. He's still a registered sex offender.
Speaker 2:And it's not gonna stop until people I'm not gonna make it a woman thing but until people are held accountable. That's the part that really bothers me. Like, when you look at these situations, could you imagine if I was to do the same thing, like I would go to jail? There would be some type of consequence, and it's the fact that this woman could lie and he have to pay for it, and nothing happened. Even I don't remember if she got an apology. I can't remember because the clip was so strong.
Speaker 1:She never really got an apology, but he didn't. But here's something that you talked about. I think it's super important how tall are you no-transcript? So Joshua Powell, former NBA player, six foot nine, and all the sides that comes along with that. One of the things that you said is that the energy, that talk about the energy that the cops have when they come to your house versus when they go to hers- oh no, the energy is crazy.
Speaker 2:So I got a story.
Speaker 1:hopefully we'll get into it, but oh, we get into it, take it.
Speaker 2:So there was a situation that happened with one of the other mothers dealing with my other children and, long story short, there was a TPO that I was put on.
Speaker 1:What's it? Tpo? Different states have different things. So, at the time. I'm sorry, it's a temporary protective order.
Speaker 2:I get what you're saying. It was a temporary protective order. So it was dismissed and finally was able to get all of my kids and.
Speaker 1:And how many children do you?
Speaker 2:have. I have seven children all together. But in this situation, like I was picking up, doing my drop off, you know, and there was a situation that happened in another location and people got involved and by the time I came to go pick up one of my children, there was things that transpired prior to the police coming. So come to find out, as I have the written report. In the written report, which I learned later, was then make sense why they pulled up so aggressively. I didn't realize what was said on the phone because I'm in the middle of everything that's going on at the location. I'm live on location and I'm trying to get her to get into the car. She's like no, I'm not trying to get in the car. And I'm like listen, we need to leave. Like I don't want to be here because there's other things going on. It was just a lot of energy. So I'm trying to like, let's go. And she's like no, she storms off, goes back, you know, into the building and the.
Speaker 2:I guess what was told not, I guess what was told was that I was choking her. That's what was on the paper, the actual document. But when they showed up, they showed up like 10 cars deep and they surrounded me and I had to be careful. I had to be careful. They had their hands on their gun. You know what I'm saying? They was aggressive. They were like you need to turn around, we're going to take you in. I'm like for what?
Speaker 2:So, finally, when we had some dialogue, I said, sir, if you would allow me, I want to go into my car, I want to get the document out. So you see, because he was saying that I'm under arrest for violating the order, because I shouldn't be around, so I had to prove to him I have the documentation. Let me show you. So when I showed him the documentation, then he calmed down, but then he started asking me what happened here, here and there and everywhere else. So, long story short, after talking to them, I was able to get de-escalate the situation. She came back with me, but then the extra part was there was something filed and literally later on that night showed up again and removed all the children from my house because she was able to get an order. It was the craziest thing even going through all of that. So let me just go backwards. So what I hear you saying is you were at something.
Speaker 1:You were somewhere with a woman with whom you have a child, yes, and it sounds like there was a disagreement around leaving, and she alleges that she was going to be in jail Around leaving, and she alleges that you choked her. And so the question would be did you choke her? No, ok, so you didn't choke her.
Speaker 2:I also was on the phone, because that was the other thing too. At the time I was on the phone and that person was listening to everything that was going on as well, so OK, so she called the police, or did someone call?
Speaker 1:She called the police, yes, and so when she called the police, you later found out that she said that you were choking her. They brought 10 vehicles, 10 cop cars worth of cops to this place where you were, came in an aggressive way and you later de-escalated the situation to the point where you arrested that night.
Speaker 2:I was not, and that's the other point I want to make to you. If I was wrong and out of pocket, then please, by all means, I want to acknowledge that. Right, if there was a camera that caught that, because there was other people that saw what was going on you feel what I'm saying? So if I was out of pocket, then there should have been an actual arrest made, and that did not happen.
Speaker 1:You shined like you're going through it. It's a good thing you got a relationship podcast, my man. He cried Nose man. We got the conversation about that, you being a picker.
Speaker 2:We got that conversation, so there's a response for everything. What's up, sir? You good, there's a response for everything. Come on so you can say hey, real quick, go ahead and say hey, hey, what's happening? What's happening to him, how you doing? He just got fresh. He said how you doing Good. All right, what's up?
Speaker 1:buddy, I see, go give him some Tylenol, because those braids are done.
Speaker 2:He going to be patting those in a minute, I'm telling you. So, basically, in regards to relationship, it's funny because people always say be careful and that's one thing that I speak to as well, because not just in relationships, but people in general, people have mastered the art. I'm showing you a representative, and it's really scary. They'll play whatever game they got to play for as long as they need to play it. They get in whatever position they need to get into. Men and women, this is not Sorry.
Speaker 1:Especially typical though because of what you did for a living, because you played in a league, is your story the first one where you feel like you engage with certain folks who take the tech the approach that the women with whom you've had children are taking. You think it's relative to what you did for a living.
Speaker 2:It could be.
Speaker 1:I don't want to assume that because I've no, but I'm just saying Like, do you know other cats who were in the league who were dealing with similar situations? When they have children that they're no longer with the mother, I won't say all, but many for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there are many, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And the other part is too.
Speaker 2:It's not even a league thing because, like I said, there's other people that aren't in the same position but deal with similar things, and it doesn't matter if you're a man with money or a man that's middle class or a man that ain't got money. Like this thing is happening when it comes, when children are involved, and that's the thing that I try to share with people, because it's not a stateless thing, it's really not. It's like men, it's like what's going on, and that's just what it is.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to throw something out there that is real crazy. And has the mother of this child, your daughter? Has she ever spoken to any of the other mothers of your children in a way where they could vouch for your character to say, look, sid, I think you might be OD on this. You might be taking this a little far. We should work together on this.
Speaker 2:Or is that the?
Speaker 1:gasoline and dynamite Putting it together.
Speaker 2:I don't want to say gasoline and dynamite, right, but I'll put it to you this way it's not like they haven't crossed paths. It's not like, for example, I didn't sit in the courtroom one day because I had to go against all three.
Speaker 2:So, it's not like a situation where you know in other people's situations where the moms don't know or they don't communicate or something like that, Like my situation, like there was communication, there is an understanding. You know, people know. It's not that type of party. You know what I mean, but decisions were made.
Speaker 1:So you are now in the midst of what could literally be called a custody battle, right when you're looking to find a way to have regular visitation with. Is this your youngest child?
Speaker 2:Daughter, but not my youngest.
Speaker 1:No, she's not my youngest, youngest daughter. So your youngest daughter. And I'm just trying to be respectful, but we won't put children's names out there. I'm just trying to get a birth order. So your youngest daughter. So you're now in a position where you're attempting to get regular visitation of your youngest daughter. What do you think will be necessary? Because it's highly probable, if it's going to be real, that even this conversation, whether you like it or not, could be part of the record that's used to determine what you do or don't do. That's why I'm trying to be especially mindful and respectful of the circumstances, because it's a very much alive situation. What do you want your child's mother to know? Are your intentions?
Speaker 2:That's a great question. So I know she knows my intentions, but I'll repeat them. And basically for me, I want to have equal rights, I want to have equal time, I want to have equal decision making. I'm not trying to be difficult here, I just want to have fairness across the board. I don't want it to be a situation where the person cut it down. I don't want it to be a situation where people can just make decisions and then I got to deal with them. That's not fair. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:There are things and ways that I think about life that's beneficial for my child, our child. There are things that I can see that the power is to be. It's like things that men do. We have our strengths. There are things that women do to have their strengths, and that's cool. I want her well-being. That's at the forefront of everything and I genuinely love her. I love her to death. My daughter. I feel like she's an amazing young lady. I want her to have the that's how old she is, she's three Okay.
Speaker 2:So you know, I want nothing but the best for her. That's not even a thing, and it's the same thing when it comes to her mother. I want to make sure that she's good, whatever that looks like, live your life, do what you got to do, but let's really focus on that. So those are the things that are my goals.
Speaker 1:What is her goal? Does she want you to? Not To the extent that you know them? Has she stated that she does not want you to have any rights to your daughter?
Speaker 2:If she could have it her way you know what I'm saying Then I wouldn't be a part of her life at all.
Speaker 1:So I just want to make sure I understand.
Speaker 2:So your child's mother, your daughter's mother, does not want you in your daughter's life at all, based on your opinion If she could have it her way and I'm standing on that because I'm not speaking from an emotional place no, you don't sound emotional at all.
Speaker 2:If I didn't have these documents in this situation coming up, I wouldn't mind flipping this camera and showing you some stuff so you can see I got you. These aren't my words. You know what I mean. If they were my words and that's me making that assumption, then that's one thing. But these are not my words. You know what I mean. And the situation is very challenging.
Speaker 1:Who do you have between you?
Speaker 1:You hear what I'm saying. I heard you say that you have tried therapy, you've tried friends, you've tried something like relatives. Is there somebody not the court, of course, and if there's no one, no who could just sit you both down and just turn down the temperature and say, brother, sister, please, your daughter sees everything that you're doing, and everything that you're doing is something that she will see, the way in which she will interface with who she grows to like when she's older, whoever she becomes friends with boys or girls that you guys are setting the framework for the way that thing goes down, whether she has a healthy opinion of herself or an unhealthy opinion of herself. Is there someone or something who could sit you both down and just without prejudice or ranker, say, can y'all just stop and just look at this beautiful little girl? Because I would imagine Georgia is like most states, which is, unless your rights are taken from you, the other parent can't prohibit you from seeing this child.
Speaker 2:So great question, easy answer. For those who are willing, it will happen and for those who won't, it won't. I don't care. If we sit down with her people, she could pick whoever she's not in a space where she wants that. So it's nothing that I could do per se and it doesn't matter to me. I don't mind. Listen, she could bring her whole family and we can have a conversation. She could bring all her homegirls and have, once we start diving into the facts and what is, which is the part that makes people uncomfortable. I know for a fact. Listen, I'm no saint.
Speaker 1:I'm not trying to act like you don't need to be a saint to be a good father. Yeah, you ain't got to do that. I'll just cut you off there, because what I don't want to do is set up a false equivalent that you don't have to be a saint in order to be a good dad. No for sure. There are a lot of cats that have done some really, really, really bad things, and their kids honor them in so many ways, so I don't want to put that down there.
Speaker 2:That's fair. But for me I'm just doing it for accountability purposes. I got you, I got you. You know what I'm saying Because if she happens to see it, just like on the videos that I put up, she's seen it and these things are a part of documentation. These are part of her filings. So even in there I say the same thing. I know I'm accountable for my actions, but I'm not no difficult person. I don't live my life that way. I don't move that way. I'm not a part of that. That energy is not me.
Speaker 1:So if you had to complete this sentence, how would you complete it?
Speaker 2:All I want is peace, love time with my doing with our child, unbothered time with our child. Like I want to get rid of this narrative. I want to be able to show people that people can positively and correctly, even if they're not together, they can still love a child and raise a healthy human being.
Speaker 1:Because everyone understands this right, like I think sometimes what happens and I just see this so often, I really see this so often your situation is so typical that it's like saying that water is wet. I typically see two people who, for whatever reason, used to care enough about each other to be intimate enough to have a child, whatever lent the time that took to make that happen. It happened.
Speaker 1:And for whatever reason, as the book goes, things fall apart and that happens, right, it happens. And then even for couples who are still together, there are different parenting styles, which one person could be softer, the other person could be harder if we just characterize it as that. And then they disagree on parenting whether they're together or not. But I think something that a lot of parents who are in this situation, who are more caught up in being people than they are parents, forget, is there practical circumstances that you just can't overcome. When your daughter starts playing soccer, you're both going to be a DGC.
Speaker 1:Where your daughter has a birthday party. She's got one birthday. Y'all can have as many birthday parties as you have, but she's going to be born on one day. There's going to be a Christmas, if that's what you celebrate, or a Easter or Ramadan, whatever it is you just celebrate. And so there's a point at which the facts of life kick in and y'all got to find a way to figure this out. There's no way around this. You have to.
Speaker 1:So sometimes, when the reality of the reality is put in front, of people and they see that there's no backing out because the state would have to come in and make you forfeit your rights. And I'm telling you, in the 30 plus years that I've been working with children, I don't think I've seen 10 or 5 parents lose full access to their children. I'm talking about parents who have beaten children to the white meat. They don't lose access to their children. I'm talking about I've made the call, I saw the wounds, I saw them and it parents still did not lose. I've seen parents sent to prison for harming their children and still getting visitation. I've seen children put in foster care. I've seen them fully adopted and the parents, the birth parents, still have birth. I mean, still have access. So the probability of either one of you losing full access Unless Georgia is awesome new stuff is virtually zero. So y'all really ain't got a choice. Y'all got to figure this out one way or other, like it has to happen.
Speaker 2:Right. So the the other part too and I want to help people with this, because there are many that can't figure it out but that the one thing that you can do is be that constant person in your, your son or daughter's life, because there's so many different ways that you could go about it, and the beautiful part about that is with you being consistent. Your child will see, or those children will see, what is the truth is undefeated, no matter, no matter what's going on. Unfortunately, in some situations it might take 30 years and other situations it might take three months, but the child will see. So we, you know, I just have to do my part and being consistent, keep loving them, keep talking to them, keep doing all the things showing up when I could show up and all of that and in the hopes that, hey, they know they got a solid old man by their corner, like because you got a.
Speaker 2:I Feel like a lot of us. That's where that stress kicks in again, because we want to show them so bad that we can figure this thing out. And you spend and waste so much time Still battling and fighting things that are beyond your control that you lose sight of the time and being present in the way that you can be at that time. So those are the things. To me that's important. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:I do, I do and you know I said to you earlier you got to be crazy or courageous. I'm gonna go courageous on this at this point. Um, there are so many men and I'm gonna speak on men I I don't see it often that mothers lose access to their children. I just don't. I know, for parody I'm supposed to say you know, men or women is just not true. The people, the people who I see in our schools, well, like wait, why can't I get the report card?
Speaker 2:So I have that situation too, by the way, where, with my oldest daughter, I got so accustomed so I've been able to see. You know both sides of this thing. So, and, and, even, and, even. With that being said, in case she sees this and it doesn't make me none, I still Believe that, no matter what these kids need, both period.
Speaker 1:Right, they do at least both, not just both. They need both. So your courage is going to be necessary because of the black men. It is far easier to be for us to be like I don't care, I don't give a f, it don't matter to me, you know, I you know or say goofy things like well, if my son or daughter ever needs me, they know where to get me, because many men don't want to go through the Hassle of calling the police, to having a police called at least 35 times in In in two years, which is incredible, incredible, and you're doing that again. I just want people to know we've been at this Well. I just want people to know.
Speaker 1:This is Joshua Powell. Joshua Powell is a long time NBA player, very successful in his profession as an athlete, but he has, I think, a more interesting story and, and to me, his interesting story is that he is a father who was working his ass off to get access to his kids and he is unwilling to relent, willing to take accountability, as he has in this. He says he was accused of things. I asked him if he did those things. He said he is not, and and is prepared to answer to any and all parties, even as he's in the midst of court cases around his his youngest daughter.
Speaker 1:So I want people to know that you are someone who other people will consider Accomplished, and if this can happen to you, it can happen to regular blokes who don't and didn't make tens of millions of dollars and don't I didn't achieve International stardom, but just cats who just driving these trucks, who are around me right now or who are coming home from work like I am, just regular work. The same thing to happen, and I think that's I think that's the message that you want to get out there. Am I putting words in your mouth?
Speaker 2:absolutely, and I Don't. I don't want people to think because I feel, like.
Speaker 2:That's kind of like the other narrative too, when you see other people and it's always like you, ball players and y'all picking and doing this and doing that, and it's like, no, I see this all day. Every day I'm in the communities. You know what I mean. I'm going to speaking to schools and different businesses and doing all these things, and I Know, I know what my DMs look like, because people are like, bro, I can't believe you going through that man, listen to my story, and then I give them a do this. Make sure you doing that, make sure you, because I can't control nothing, just like I. You could be the best father ever and your kids still may not receive you, and that can happen too.
Speaker 2:Yes, so for me, in order for me to sleep peacefully at night, I just try to do the best that I can every day. I try to make sure that I make every attempt that I can make and do it, and do it in a way that you know I'm not losing myself in that process. Here's why I'm saying that you talk About the fight that I have for one of my children. I also have another fight for one of my other children, my oldest, and I speak about this all the time my oldest. I have soul custody of right. We're now in a situation where my oldest is we're Literally. If this continues to go on up until this summer, it will be three years since I've spoken to her, to your door.
Speaker 1:But you have so custody she's with her mom. So long story short and if you have sold custody yep. How old is a child? She'll be 18 this summer so she's decided not to talk to you long story short.
Speaker 2:Mom was gone for about 12 years 12, 13 years. You know made the intro. You know started. You know Started off slow, but you know help and build a relationship. Never spoke ill about mom. No, nothing. Mom went through a certain point, reached out. Hey, trying to trying to get there, can I get some help? Okay, cool. I forgave the thousands of dollars for child support once. I didn't want child support but the court made me do it, so I forgave the thousands of dollars, moved her. She was living with me at For a couple of months till she got on her feet, got her own place and then a situation happened where I spoke to her about the fact that I didn't like what she was doing and how she was kind of like undermining me because, listen, when she's with me, let me do me.
Speaker 2:I don't say nothing. What she's at your house. I respect that and I would tell my daughter that if my daughter would call Me about and be frustrated about whatever, I would say listen, you got to respect what your mom is on. You know I could talk to her if you want and I ask her that she always tells me no, it's okay, all right, cool, you have to deal with that. Understand why where I am with it, because I got to support your mom or whatever the decisions that she's on. But I spoke about something. She threw my daughter in it and my daughter is trying to protect her mom now and here we are three, going on three years later.
Speaker 2:So and it sucks too, because now that she's at this age where she can choose the parent that she wants to be with. But there's there's trickiness to this situation. For one mother has no legal rights to the child. For one, for two, okay, cool. If just because you're deciding to be with mom, that doesn't mean that you can stop coming to dad, that does not mean that right. So addressing that, even when I went to the, to the, to to the courts and talk to attorneys and oh, you could do, and it, and it's like the people who are going to school about these things and the education that they have on it is baffling. It really is. And To hear that everybody has a difference of opinion on something that you go to school for is also baffling. But here we are.
Speaker 2:So the only thing that I could do is love her from afar, and and I have to be at peace with that, because for me, right, this will be one of the times that I'll do it, but it's not like I'm not reaching out. I wanted you to see that it's not like that. I'm not, you know saying but I'm blocked. I'm blocked, so what can I do? Not only am I blocked, but she was removed from the school that she was going to, and it's like all these decisions being made, you feel me and she's doing whatever she feels in her, you know, mom or her, however they feel, and it's like, bruh, I'm not, I know, I'm not.
Speaker 2:Listen, if I raped you, beat you, did anything like that, by all means do what you feel is necessary, because I'm a predator, I'm a monster, I'm whatever you want to call me. I was out of pocket, but that has not been the case. And and I'm Standing on that and for people that know me, if you know her, if you're watching this, if you, if you, anybody family, friends, teachers, whoever like this is not cool, because there was a narrative that was put up at their school about me as well, and that's the one thing that I can't stand. But but again, I get it, because now, when the schools or the counties or the people step in they're like, well, we got to protect the child, so they really trying to hear who's side of what, and just that in the third they just gonna move accordingly. You.
Speaker 1:You know, I think my heart breaks for your daughter, daughters, you and their mothers, because nobody's winning. No one is winning. There's no victory in these decisions. From where I sit, my heart breaks because I've seen people co-parent and it's really dope. I can think of a couple that I know. When it came down, when it's time for them to go their separate ways, I think everybody was like thank you, why did you ever get together? But, excuse me, but as parents they're like this. You know they have the visitation days right, but if one's got to go out of town this day and another one's under it, it's like no problem, I'll take them on this day and you get them on that day, or I won't. I'll maybe miss my day, but next week we'll make it up something like that. They don't vacation together, but sometimes they'll go to places together. It can be something that is so much better than this. People, relationships just go. They go to separate ways. It doesn't always work.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:It's just the way it is. That's that People get involved with people and they look up and they're like you know what? I don't really feel like I felt before there's that, but the unwavering commitment to parenting has to be there. In order to have an unwavering commitment to parenting, you've got to commit to working with this other person, which I have seen so many times just seems impossible. It just seems impossible. I'm always stunned at how much people who I know clearly used to have a relationship with absolutely hate each other and they will use the children as a battering ram against each other.
Speaker 2:You know what that means. They never loved each other from the beginning. I'm a firm believer in that. Because here's why For me, if you don't have that hate on your heart like that and you said to your point you just mentioned it and I said this before too how do you lay up with somebody? You have a family with them, you cry with them, you have all these moments and then all of a sudden, because you're all not together, there's beef like heavy beef. You would have thought like how did y'all even get together?
Speaker 2:And this is somebody that you spent years with or you know them, no matter what the situation is. In most of these situations we're not talking about one night stands or anything else like that. We're talking about people who are trying to date, got into a relationship or, whatever the case may be, didn't work out. Then there's children involved. The level of hatred that a man can have towards a woman or a woman that can have towards a man is beyond me. And you say that you love a person. That's not showing love. Love is grace, forgiveness, mercy. There's a lot of things that are attached to that word and that's not what's being shown and that's why I say people don't love people the way that they say Whatever's going on at that time, cool. Love should kick in when it's over with, because you want to see that person happy.
Speaker 1:Let me get off of this up In a long conversation. Who knows which of us are correct, but one time I was in New Orleans and I was in the former mayor's office when he was mayor, and he sewed me these binders of people who had been killed. And he said to me do you realize that most of these men who killed these other men, they used to know one another. They played on the same football teams and basketball teams. Sometimes the deepest hate comes from people who used to love us and they can't reconcile the separation. And for them, if they can't have the love, then they'll take the hate. And so I don't know that they didn't love, but I know that if they can't have the love, then they will take the hate and the hate will take them to the end of life, either until life ends or until they end that other person's life. So if love were rational, it wouldn't be as powerful. If we could predict the outcome of our emotions, we wouldn't be driven by our emotions.
Speaker 1:In your case, it sounds like so many people. You have some complicated relationships and my hope is that through this conversation, you and your partners former partners will be able to take a deep breath and think all right, we have gone pretty far in this. We have children involved. Nobody's winning. Neither one of us want to deal with a child who is pregnant before they're able to do so, or a father before they're able to do so, or somebody who's hurting themselves, or somebody who is hurt. We got to stop before this gets to an unfixable place. My hope is that that happens, that y'all come together and think it through and that egos can simmer down and y'all can come up with something meaningful.
Speaker 1:But I want to have this conversation again, or the next part of it, if that's all right with you, because there's so much more that I'd love to talk to you about. I deeply appreciate your authenticity and really the hard work that you're doing on yourself. Can you just talk a little bit before we go? You do have a new book out. I'm really excited for you. I did want to find out what books Phil Jackson, a former coach of the Lakers, and also the Bulls, what books he's suggesting to you that you read because you are a reader, which ones you like. Nah, I'm good.
Speaker 2:So well I dove into it. He gave me two books, one of the ones that I actually like the book and Roe Lester Travel. I can't remember the name of the author. It's been some time since I've seen it. The other book was the Alchemist. I'm rereading that now. Yeah, it's one of those things that you just tap into over and over again and you get something new from it.
Speaker 2:But I think, for me, the thing that was very interesting about Phil which is something that I've used in parenting Phil was one of the best. What is the best, in my opinion? I play for a lot of amazing coaches that are very good. It's not to take away nothing from them, but he was the best at managing egos. When it comes to parenting, when you have a child or multiple children, finding the best way to tap into each person and getting the best out of them was something that I absolutely got from him. You know what I mean. I thought it was really beautiful and tactful how he went about his business.
Speaker 2:Now, that doesn't mean everybody liked it the people who are on the other end of it but when you got on the court, the proof was in the pudding. People felt like people were doing what they were supposed to do at a high level. Obviously so, because Phil has won 11 championships as a coach, so there's something there. We can't sit up there and say that it's fool's goal or that there's no validity to what he's doing when he's had success. And that, for me, is one of the things that I'm grateful for, because I have multiple children. They all have their little beautiful minds, and figuring out how I can tap into each one of those children, doing it in a way where you get the best out of each one of them. That's always the goal, and as I'm talking to you, like I said, my son is right here listening. We have our moments. You know what I'm saying, but I love him.
Speaker 1:I have two sons. Brother, I have two sons, and their job is to prove that I have no idea what I'm talking about. That's actually what I think they wake up every day to like ah, we'll show this dude, he ain't no expert.
Speaker 2:And that's the part that's crazy. And then, to answer your question, the book. What I wish I knew basically is me talking about my experiences and the things that shaped and molded me in regards to relationships. Now, I'm speaking about all relationships, but the majority of the book is talking about my personal relationships and just how we can become the best version of ourselves, which is another relationship that I speak about, to the relationship with yourself, which we tend to forget about that person.
Speaker 2:So I'm just showing everybody that I am them, meaning I come from pain, I come from trauma, I come from all of these different things, but I've been able to see the light at the end of the tunnel. You know, I feel that I have a beautiful spirit, that I'm a loving, open person. I could be cold, I could be whatever, but my circumstances and the way that I'm set up has not, thankfully, has not made me that guy. So I'm continuing my journey, I'm still learning, I'm still growing, I'm still figuring out things about me. I just turned 41 a couple of weeks ago. So it's a constant learning process and I want people to embrace it. I'm embracing mine. I own every part to me good, bad and different, and I think that's the part that makes it so beautiful so.
Speaker 1:Well, I appreciate you sincerely. Ladies and gentlemen, south Carolina's own Jason Powell. I mean Joshua Powell, looking at Jason, someone just came up to you, joshua Powell. One last question Tell me what it felt like to win a title, to win the NBA championship. How would you put that in the words?
Speaker 2:I really can't still to this day, but what I will say is that, a kid coming from the South side of Atlanta, all the things that I endured, I felt like I was putting the city, along with my family, on my back and just being a representative of what hard work and dedication.
Speaker 1:Well, you have, yeah, right, thank you. Kid Dynamite said this has been a dope conversation. I agree, kid Dynamite. We're going to do this again. Brother, while we were up here, my man, jaylin Rose, texted and said he really appreciated what was being discussed. So you touching people, man, you are moving people and I am proud to have been part of this competition. If afterwards we could, I definitely would change information.
Speaker 2:No, for sure.
Speaker 1:Whatever I could do to support you. I want to see you continue to win. And if any of those children of yours want to go to school in Harlem, let me know. I'm imagining that one of them might be able to hoop a little bit. So we got a great coach. We would love to have them come up or the Bronx or Bridgeport, but every year we'll fit in this area. Let's connect. But in the meantime, for real, we're going to reach out to you. If I can, I'll change information. I really am super proud of the journey that you're on and whatever I can do to be a small part of it, I want to do so.
Speaker 2:Josh, I appreciate you too, so let's build, and I'm excited. Anything you need on my end, please let me know. We love to do some work with you.
Speaker 1:Copy kind of dumb. We going to have some fun. I blood be real, tell your son I said thank you for letting us borrow you for a minute. I know we got to go put the do right now because those who ever braided knows exactly what they are doing. They are not playing around Right, not playing around. Hey, y'all, take it easy. Thanks for joining us for no dumb questions. All right, take it easy Peace.