This week, our guest and Becker Shareholder, Howard Perl, sits down with host Donna DiMaggio Berger to share his experiences as both an army veteran as well as a successful PCAM before going to law school later in life. Howard recounts his unique journey from joining the army at 17, to participating in Operation Iraqi Freedom to how his military background inspired Becker's Board Member Boot Camp, a unique military-themed board certification course. Howard's valuable insights, as both a veteran and a PCAM, are a reminder of how impactful life experiences can equip association board members and management professionals for the many challenges they face.
Donna and Howard deconstruct the elements of Becker's Board Member Boot Camp and explain how they will elicit a refreshing level of interaction and engagement from volunteer board members who attend. They also highlight the importance for board members to be able to accurately prioritize community goals and to stay informed about the ever-evolving statutes and best practices in the community association industry. Tune in for an enlightening conversation with meaningful stories and tips that will equip volunteer board members and management professionals with fresh perspectives.
Conversation highlights include:
BONUS: Howard describes memorable moments during his time in Iraq.
This week, our guest and Becker Shareholder, Howard Perl, sits down with host Donna DiMaggio Berger to share his experiences as both an army veteran as well as a successful PCAM before going to law school later in life. Howard recounts his unique journey from joining the army at 17, to participating in Operation Iraqi Freedom to how his military background inspired Becker's Board Member Boot Camp, a unique military-themed board certification course. Howard's valuable insights, as both a veteran and a PCAM, are a reminder of how impactful life experiences can equip association board members and management professionals for the many challenges they face.
Donna and Howard deconstruct the elements of Becker's Board Member Boot Camp and explain how they will elicit a refreshing level of interaction and engagement from volunteer board members who attend. They also highlight the importance for board members to be able to accurately prioritize community goals and to stay informed about the ever-evolving statutes and best practices in the community association industry. Tune in for an enlightening conversation with meaningful stories and tips that will equip volunteer board members and management professionals with fresh perspectives.
Conversation highlights include:
BONUS: Howard describes memorable moments during his time in Iraq.
Hi everyone, I'm attorney Donna DiMaggio-Burger and this is Take it to the Board, where we speak Kondo and HOA. Today we have our second repeat guest on the podcast. My partner, howard Pearl, is back again. Howard's episode on enforcing rules and restrictions in community associations remains the most downloaded episode of Take it to the Board. This time we will be talking about Becker's board member boot camp and how Howard's personal military background inspired this themed board certification training course. If you're a board member on a community association board in Florida, you're going to want to stick around for this entire episode, as Howard is going to walk you through the elements of his board certification course.
Speaker 1:Now just a little background on Howard. He grew up in Pittsburgh, the eldest of two children, and joined the Army at 17. Once he was still a minor, the Army recruiter went to his parents' house and needed them to sign. He'll tell us in this episode how that went over with his parents. Speaking of his parents, alex and Evelyn, they owned six toy stores in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 1:After they moved to Florida in the early 80s, evelyn and Alex both became community association managers. Evelyn was the manager for the Country Walk Homeowners Association when Hurricane Andrew hit back in 1992. Now we're taping this episode on August 28th, with Hurricane Adalia on her way. Howard also became a community association manager and then achieved the PECAM certification In the year 2000,. He decided to go to law school and, funny enough, he interned at Becker, where he and I embarked on a fruitless project to create a database of arbitration cases. Howard was called up for a tour of duty in Iraq in 2005 in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom and he served three years of active military service. We're proud to have him at Becker and I'm delighted to have him back on the podcast. So, howard, welcome back to take it to the board.
Speaker 2:Thank you, donna. That was nice words, so I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:So, as I said in the introduction, your podcast episode on enforcing rules and regulations. It remains the most downloaded episode of the podcast. Why do you think that topic resonated so deeply with our audience?
Speaker 2:Well, unfortunately, I think that's what most boards have to deal with most of the time is enforcing rules and regulations, and it's not a very easy issue to navigate. It's a very difficult issue to navigate and not only do you have to take into account common sense, but there's a lot of statutory requirements as well. So I think, when you put all those factors together, there's a lot of information for board members to know and understand in regard to enforcing rules and regulations.
Speaker 1:So I mentioned your parents. I'm fortunate to have met and know both of your parents. Your father unfortunately passed away, your mother's still with us, but were rules and regulations, a big part of your household growing up?
Speaker 2:Well, unlike today, I think rules were a big part of most households for people who grew up in the 60s and 70s, like I did. So yeah, it was, but it was normal back then. I don't think it's normal today.
Speaker 1:But you're the eldest of two, so the eldest. Now, remember, I'm the third of four, so my parents. You're right, rules were really big in the DiMaggio household. But by the time I came around and there's a big gap between my two older siblings and me and my younger brother, I think our parents were a little worn out. You were the eldest child, so you probably got the front of it as well.
Speaker 2:Well, don't forget, donna. We all know that rules and regulations don't apply to you.
Speaker 1:That's not entirely true and you know you can still talk to my parents. They're in Western Florida, you can call them up. They would probably agree with you that I was not the most rule compliant child. So the topic for today, howard, is Becker's board member boot camp and how your personal military background has inspired this military themed board certification class. With that being said, tell us when did you join and why did you join the Army.
Speaker 2:Well, I joined the Army in 1975. Yes, I am that old. I know I don't look it, but yes, I am that old, you don't look it.
Speaker 2:As you said, I was 17 at the time and I don't know ever since I was a young child, I was always interested in the military and I think in the back of my mind I always wanted to join the military and, as you said, I didn't really discuss it with my parents. I went down to the recruiting station, met with the recruiter, decided I wanted to join and drive the recruiter home to meet my mom and dad to sign the papers, and that was the first time they even had a whip.
Speaker 1:And how did that go over with Evelyn and Alex?
Speaker 2:My parents were always very supportive of whatever I wanted to do, no matter how stupid it may have been at the time. So of course they were. You know they signed off.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to think in 75,. Was there any world event that would have prompted you to join the Army? Like I know, in the aftermath of 9-11, there was a big recruiting bump obviously. Was there anything at that time?
Speaker 2:Well, if you remember, that was probably only a year or two after the Vietnam War was over, so I figured it was a good time to join. Little did I know. 30 years later, I would maybe set and guess that decision.
Speaker 1:Well, I've always wondered does fear play a part when you're evaluating whether or not to join the armed forces?
Speaker 2:I think if you're deciding you're going to join the military, you've already been through those conversations in your head. I mean, if you don't think there's a chance you're going to be deployed, maybe not come home, then you shouldn't join in the first place.
Speaker 1:So tell us about your basic training.
Speaker 2:So again, this is back in 1975, is when I went to basic training. Back then they still excuse the expression beat the heck out of you and they're able to harass you and do all sorts of things to you that they're not able to do today. So you know, 17 years old, you go through that stuff and you learn. I actually was trained as an enlisted person. I was a field artillery person and then I got out after three years and joined the reserves and went to ROTC, became commissioned as an officer in field artillery and a few years later I went and I got training to become a military intelligence officer. So I was both an artillery officer and a military intelligence officer for the next 30 years that I served in the reserves. So yeah, it was a good time.
Speaker 1:Well, let's take a step back. How memorable was your drill sergeant.
Speaker 2:Oh, I still couldn't see their face drill sergeant Gonzalez and drill sergeant Pope. So what's that? Tell you that I can tell you their names almost 50 years later, and I can see their faces. If they were walking down the street, I would be able to pick them out. Everybody has a very personal relationship with your drill sergeant and I think for probably anybody who served in the military would tell you the same thing that I just said about the drill sergeants.
Speaker 1:The military movies the funny ones that I remember seeing private Benjamin stripes were. They depict the drill sergeant screaming in people's faces getting them ready for active combat. Is that just Hollywood, or is there a real element of truth to those depictions?
Speaker 2:There's an element of truth to those depictions. To some of them, I mean the screaming in your face, you know, the getting up at four o'clock in the morning having two minutes to eat your food. I was a little chubby when I went into the army so that they would always take the dessert off of my tray and give it to the skinny kid.
Speaker 1:I mean, they would literally walk up, take your dessert off and give it to somebody else and you had nothing to say about it Every day three times a day. I can't picture you, howard, standing for that, but I guess you had to. There's no option, no there's no option. What if you were inclined to disobey? What happens you?
Speaker 2:either got the heck beat out of you or you got discharged one or the other. I mean, you know that's look. They call it military training and basic training, and you know it is what it is and you either agree to it or you don't.
Speaker 1:You mentioned a lot of training. Did you feel that your training adequately prepared you for your tour of duty in Iraq?
Speaker 2:Well, remember, my initial training was in 1975. That's true. Subsequent training, you know, was just in the reserves. For me, you know, 1984 word. I will say that the military intelligence training you know, that's always going to prepare you for what you have to do as a military intelligence officer, which I operated as when I was over in Iraq. But then, before you get deployed, I actually it sent me to two months of training in Indiana, two months before you get sent over to Iraq, and then another two weeks of acclimation into late. So that's really where you got, you know, prepared for whatever you were going to do in Iraq.
Speaker 1:Did anything surprise you when you first got there.
Speaker 2:The heat. There's nothing. Like you know, we all just went through this horrendous heat in South Florida, you know, a couple of weeks ago and I will tell you it was hotter than that. I'll never forget stepping off the airplane in Kuwait, probably at 11 o'clock at night, and it was 125 degrees outside.
Speaker 1:And you're wearing all your gear too. I mean, that's one thing, You're in the desert, but you're also wearing a bunch of gear.
Speaker 2:Yeah not at that point, but once you deploy it in Iraq. Yes, you're in that heat with about 50 pounds of gear.
Speaker 1:What? 50 pounds of gear? Yes, Can you tell me a little bit about the type of gear you had to carry on a daily basis when you were deployed?
Speaker 2:Well, you would wear your flak vest, you know, which were basically two steel plates and a vest, one in the front, one in the back, and these were not the plates they have these days that you can buy that are lightweight. These were the real heavy duty or lack of a better term, pig iron plates that you wore, one in the front, one in the back. So basically they were baking you all day, you know, and your regular gear, your rifle, your gas mask, the pistol, your helmet, lots of fun.
Speaker 1:You know I mentioned private benches and stripes in both of those movies. One of the themes is that they get in great shape. Did you get in great shape when you?
Speaker 2:were over there. You don't have any choice but to get in great shape. Nothing else the heat will sweat it out of you.
Speaker 1:So, other than the obvious risks of being injured or killed, what were your significant challenges there?
Speaker 2:Well, the most significant challenges, I think, from a military point of view, were staying alert, never letting your guard down. You know, basically you have to be on 24 seven alert for the 10, 11 months that I was over there and obviously, however long somebody's deployed, you're on 24 seven alert and it's very easy to get complacent and not put your helmet on, not put your vest on, because you're only going here or you're only going there and unfortunately that's. You know, that's when something will happen. So that was significant challenge just keep an alert. And the other significant challenge was communicating with your loved ones back home.
Speaker 1:Well, tell me about that. How often could you? What was the method of communication you used?
Speaker 2:Look, everybody is different. It depends on where you were stationed. I was stationed at Campaji. I was working on the Iraqi side of the base, so they had telephone lines that were available for use, but they were out half of the time and we had to stand in line. So, you know, I would get up at five o'clock in the morning and do my things so I could get over there and be able to use the phone lines when I was able to. And then occasionally, you know, I actually had a satellite phone that I took with me just for emergencies, personal emergencies, but I would use that every now and then, even child, if I wasn't able to.
Speaker 1:But if your wife or your parents needed to get in touch with you, were they able to get in touch with you easily.
Speaker 2:They could get in touch with you might take up to 24 hours. Generally, if there was an emergency, you know, they would have to call the Red Cross. The Red Cross would get in touch with the command and blah, blah blah. But if somebody you know and obviously it happens, you know soldiers have emergencies at home for whatever reason, people pass or something happens and it would take about 24 hours for somebody to get in touch with you from home if they're out.
Speaker 1:Was one of the challenges. I know you mentioned two challenges so far, but what about your schedule? I mean, did you always know where you were going to be every day of the week, or did your schedule change up depending on what was going on when I was doing.
Speaker 2:I was training Iraqi soldiers. My schedule was pretty set. Luckily for me I wasn't knocking on doors, you know, searching for bad guys. But the people that are doing that you know their schedule would change every day based on what's going on.
Speaker 1:So we have people listening, Howard, that have no understanding of the operation Iraqi freedom. What can you tell us about the operation?
Speaker 2:Well, the operation was predicated on the fact that, you know, there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, in the United States. We wanted to go in to secure those from Saddam Hussein as well, as you know, capture Saddam Hussein, and I was proud to support that. That's what we went over for. I will tell you that I personally saw chemical weapons that they weren't supposed to have. So that's what it was.
Speaker 1:Howard, there's a picture in your office of you sitting on a throne. Am I correct in assuming that may have been one of Saddam Hussein's thrones, that is?
Speaker 2:correct. That's exactly what it was. It was one of Saddam Hussein's thrones. When you said that, I thought you were referring maybe to the bathroom or something, but obviously he wasn't.
Speaker 1:Now did everybody, did you and all your comrades get a chance to take a picture on his throne? I mean, how did that happen? How did that photo op happen?
Speaker 2:He was. That is one of his castles that the United States Army used for one of their headquarters, and I was visiting the headquarters on one of my missions, and so that's how that happened.
Speaker 1:That's an amazing story. Well, let me ask you that. I have another question Can you describe a particularly memorable or impactful moment during your time over in Iraq?
Speaker 2:Yeah, obviously there were lots of memorable moments, some good, some not so good, but I will tell you. When I got to my station, I actually went looking to see if they had any Jewish services and I found out that there were Jewish services held every Friday night at the checkpoints office, led by what they call a Jewish lay leader, who's a regular person who just basically knew the services Three or four Jews in Iraq having some services. So the person that led the services left. He got redeployed after about two months. So I became the lay leader by default and I led the services there for the next eight and nine months that I was in Iraq and I found that, you know, that was very fulfilling Leading services.
Speaker 2:I had soldiers with their sniper rifle slung on their back while they were sitting there Friday night for an hour doing services. We also had a high holiday services, rasha Shona Yom Kippur, a rabbi, actually flew in a helicopter with a miniature Torah scroll that he brought, and so we were having services with artillery rounds being shot off in the back. That was another memory.
Speaker 1:I imagine that was memorable. Were you homesick.
Speaker 2:Yes. So I mean I don't want to say no because my parents and my wife are listening.
Speaker 1:That's true, they will be listening. I mean, I imagine that you're homesick, but you also have so much taking up your time when you're over there.
Speaker 2:Yes, of course you're homesick, but you are so busy while you're there and you're so mission focused, and then you're busy. From the time you get up to the time you go to bed you're busy, your mind is occupied, and so you know, it's almost like you don't have time to be homesick, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:That does make sense. Listen, you've been out of the service for so long now, Howard, but I imagine that it never really leaves you entirely. So how did your military experience impact your perspectives on life, civilian life?
Speaker 2:Well, I think my perspective on life and world is why I joined the military. I think everyone in this great country of ours that we are all privileged to live in we were lucky to be born in, to either serve in the military or the Peace Corps if they're able I think everybody that takes advantages everything this country has to offer has a duty to give something back.
Speaker 1:And I like that message and I'm glad you're putting that message out there. Were there skills that you learned? I understand that your perspective is what led you to join the Army in the first place, but then, after you joined the Army, I imagine you acquired certain skills. Did you bring any of those back to your civilian life, anything that you took away that the Army gave you in terms of skills?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, look, you know me pretty well. We've been doing this for a long time. I think you can tell that I have a military background. I think most people that have a military background you can tell they have a military background Just by the way they conduct themselves, in the way they do business, and so you know, I think the military teaches you to evaluate whatever situation in your reign, explore your options and then make a decision. And one of the things that I took away is, once you make a decision, stick to. There's always people who are going to be looking to make you change your mind, question your decision, evaluate the situation, look at your options, make a decision and stick with. Otherwise you'll be flip-flopping, you know, all the time. The other thing that I learned is that and again I think this is a very important lesson that a lot of people can learn your mind, in your body of capable Are a lot more than you think. To use a yogi bear, a mentality, it's 50% physical and 90%.
Speaker 1:Explain that's. That's a really important takeaway. So our minds and bodies are worth more. What? What stops it?
Speaker 2:It's just thinking that you can't do something. Yeah, I think both the military and Fortunately or unfortunately, law school teaches you that you can do anything you put your mind, and I think a lot of people give up too easily these days.
Speaker 1:This is what I know about you. I know you're loyal, incredibly loyal. I know you're not no nonsense. I also know you appreciate chain of command and so all of those things I know about you. How does that fit in with some of the shenanigans you see in our community Associations? You know you talked about not flip-flopping. You talk. I gotta imagine sometimes you shake your head when you see some of the mistakes that Some boards make well, it goes back to, I said, evaluating your situation and your options.
Speaker 2:And the first thing in evaluating your situation Is knowing what your responsibilities are and, in an association, knowing what your legal requirements are. Knowing. I think knowing, as a board member, what you can't do it's just as important as knowing what you can do. Okay, and as a board member, you volunteered. Nobody forced you to be a board member. You volunteered to serve your community. You therefore have the responsibility to learn how to fulfill that Responsibility and that's why I think a lot of board members fall short and that's why I think board member boot camp is such a Great program you know, there's a lot of parallels You're right between agreeing to serve your country and agreeing to serve your Community.
Speaker 1:Yes, they're worlds apart when it comes to the theater in which you are operating, but there are parallels to be drawn. I'm wondering what you make of some board members and we see it a lot right now, howard, with the increasing budgets due to the insurance premiums, due to the safety laws, the requirements for engineering, and now Communities that are being told they can't continue to kick the ball down the road when it comes to funding reserves. And you've got some board members who really want to be popular, they really want to be mr, mrs, nice guy, and they're not Making the decisions that perhaps they have to make to fulfill their fiduciary duty. How do you address that, given your own philosophies on service?
Speaker 2:Well, I think you'll agree, donna. I'm not concerned about being popular with anybody and as a board member, you know you're gonna be unpopular. The truth of the matter is, in today's community associations, with the insurance increases, with the lack of maintenance over 20 years because everybody's Waves reserves, with the milestone inspections that just came upon last year, with the structural integrity reserve study Requirements which just came up last year, you know board members are going to be raising budgets Astronomical amounts, I hate to say it for years to come. And if you're worried about being popular, you need to resign. You need to do what's best for the community and face of the unpopularity, in face of the criticism, as long as you're doing what's in the best interest.
Speaker 1:Well, you can't answer my next question, howard, because I wanted to ask you how your service in Iraq kind of influenced your thoughts on, you know, the broader concept of duty and sacrifice, and I think you've touched on it already that it is a sacrifice to say I'm gonna take time out of my busy day, particularly for people who have jobs. They have families to serve on the boards. But is there anything you can add in terms of how that service has influenced your personal thoughts on sacrifice and duty?
Speaker 2:Well, look, if it was easy, anybody could do it right. And, and you know, as a board member, I presume the reason people wanted to remember this is a to protect their investment. That's not, you know, let's be realistic about it. Hey, I got a five hundred thousand dollar or one million dollar house or unit. I want to make sure that there's no bozos on the board and that my investment is protected, and there's nothing wrong with that. But when you make that commitment, make it a hundred percent. Don't just be a board member to say, hey, I'm on the board. So you know, look at me, I'm looking out for you. Yeah, I tend to meetings every now and then. Sometimes I even both, but I'm a board member. No, there's. You know, if you're going to make that Commitment commitment, thank you If you're gonna make that commitment.
Speaker 2:Then, yes, there's sacrifices. You got to take the phone calls on the weekend. You got to have you know board meetings on a Thursday night or whatever the case may be. You need to attend, attend some training, so you know what you're doing. You need to stay on top of the new laws, you know. So those are the commitments that you have to make or else you shouldn't be a board member.
Speaker 1:I agree wholeheartedly it does it. Does it confuse you sometimes when we have Boards where no one wants to be the president? So I talked about chain of command and in our community association Sometimes we we run across boards where people will serve but nobody wants to serve as president. What do you say to those boards?
Speaker 2:Well, how about communities where people don't even want to serve on the board?
Speaker 2:That's yeah, the president, you know you have communities where you can't even get a form of board members. You know of planets to run for the board. And look, I don't want to tell anybody how to run their personal life. Everybody's got their own situation. If you don't have time to be a board member, then I think you made the right decision not to run, okay, but at the same time, somebody's got to run the community. And the alternative is if nobody wants to be a board member and one person applies to the court for the appointment of a receiver, the court's going to appoint a receiver and that receiver will charge you double what a normal management company whatever will charge you to run the association. So people don't want to be the president. Again, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Maybe they don't feel they have the capability, maybe they're leaders on the board and not followers, but at the end of the day, somebody has to step up.
Speaker 1:Somebody has to step up. You know the point you just made about the receiver. That's what's happening right now with the Miami-Dade community, the hammocks. So they had that this is the community with the largest fraud and they've got a receiver in and now they're saying how do we get the receiver out? Because the budget and the expenses associated with the receiver are turning out to be an economic burden.
Speaker 2:I just saw that article last week. I think, if I recall the numbers, the receiver estimated a million dollars. He could get everything done for a million dollars and not even through the first year, and there's $2.7 million in receiver. So yeah, not a good option.
Speaker 1:You know we'll have a conversation. Maybe you'll come back a third time and we'll talk about the concept of these associations being run by volunteer boards, because sometimes I think the concept is in jeopardy altogether Different podcasts Different episodes Well, before we turn to the actual board member boot camp segment, I did want to, first of all, I always thank you for your service.
Speaker 1:It's incredible. Every veteran that has served our country should be thanked and their families should be proud. I did want to give you an opportunity to discuss how you feel about the way veterans are treated and supported in society today.
Speaker 2:Well, I think today veterans are given the love and the respect they deserve by pretty much everyone, except for their own government and the VA and how they're treated with their problems. You know, the government took years and years and years to figure out, you know, a recompensation for Agent Orange and burn pit issues. And there's still, you know, things going on from the Iraqi war where our legislature doesn't want to give the commitment to our, our veterans, that they should. And again, I haven't had any experience with VA care, luckily. But you know, I think it's it's sort of a well-known fact that there's issues with VA care, that is.
Speaker 1:I imagine that the VA does lobby in terms of getting more government resources and funding.
Speaker 2:I'm sure they do. But you know the government would rather spend millions and billions of dollars giving it to other countries than taking care of our own people.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I'm going to allow that. All right, let's turn to. Let's turn to board certification. So there's a lot of board certification courses out there. We've got a lot of law firms doing it. Management companies host these things. The state you know has board certification classes. Tell us about Becker's board member boot camp and what makes this training different. It's simple.
Speaker 2:What makes our training different is we make it fun, right, let's be honest. Listening to an attorney or two drone on for two or three hours about board member stuff is usually pretty boring. All right, board member boot camp. We make it fun, we make it interactive, we make it enjoyable and we make it something that the board members will not.
Speaker 1:And we talked about that. You know the fact that there's this material. It can be dense, it can be dry, but I also think that the actual training resonates with our target audience. I think people like to feel like they're being put through their paces, do you agree?
Speaker 2:I do agree. And again, remember, these are volunteers and those that come to these courses, you know they are showing us themselves and their community that they do take the commitment seriously, that they are willing to put in the time to try to figure out the right way to do things. I mean, look, you know, taking two to three hours out of your day as a volunteer, that's a lot. You know people are busy. You know why do people like board member boot camp? It's something different. I think. Another thing is is people learn things without knowing they're being taught Okay, and not only that, the way we put it together there's a structure. Each module builds upon the previous module. And again, I can't say this enough because to me this is the most important thing about board member boot camp you will have fun, we have fun, so you're going to have fun.
Speaker 1:Can we have a drill sergeant screaming at them a little bit?
Speaker 2:Maybe not the first time. We don't want any heart attacks or anything out there.
Speaker 1:So, howard, when is Becker's board member boot camp coming?
Speaker 2:up Board member boot camp is Tuesday, november 14th, from 10 to three at the signature grand in Davy, florida, and I am sure this is going to be the first of many around the state.
Speaker 1:All right, we need to talk about ranks a little bit. Actually, I never mentioned your ranks. You were a captain and then promoted to a major. Correct, correct, correct. Tell us the ranks. What are the ranks? The military ranks?
Speaker 2:So when you're first commissioned, you're second lieutenant, first lieutenant captain, major lieutenant, colonel, colonel, brigadier, general, major general, lieutenant general general and then general of the armies, which is only good, my opinion.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's a lot. And our recruits, our people who are attending, are just our basic recruits, correct?
Speaker 2:Oh, they're just privates, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Privates first class. So I'm going to be there, you're going to be there, ten directors going to be there. How are we going to figure out these ranks?
Speaker 2:How are we going to figure out the ranks? I'm going to take the fit on that.
Speaker 1:Do I get to be the general?
Speaker 2:Of course you're the general.
Speaker 1:So before I let you go, I want to ask two more questions. First, is you kind of touched on the modules, but what are the topics that are going to be covered at the boot camp?
Speaker 2:We cover association powers and duties, maintenance of common elements, common areas, board meetings, membership meetings, elections, milestone inspections, structural integrity, reserve studies, official records finding, dispute resolution, finances, budget reserves, insurance. I mean all the good stuff. I mean that sounds like six hours to me, not three.
Speaker 1:And they get their boxed meals, their MREs, their meals ready to eat. We do a working lunch.
Speaker 2:Meals ready to eat and we're going to try to bring in some rain so it can rain inside to give them some realistic training for board member boot camp.
Speaker 1:You didn't tell me that I can't have that with my hair. Okay, so my basic understanding of basic training is that it's a process designed to basically break down the individual, to build up the collective, to create a shared sense of purpose. We've talked before I mean we've talked a lot about the problems we see in communities, and they're always exacerbated when you have a dysfunctional board. So do you think that periodic training like this can prevent or even repair that level of dysfunction on a board?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I think many board problems, if not most board problems, are self-inflicted, usually because of a lack of knowledge or because of a lack of wanting to do the right thing. How about ego? How about an ego problem too? I don't want to say that, but, yes, ego problems, and we mentioned it a little bit at the beginning. The statutes cover so many issues that lay people have no idea about All right, and not only that the statutes are being changed and tweaked every year. It seems like it. Every year there's more and more and more so what a board member learned last year Maybe changed this year, and it may be a changed again next year. So it's critical to have this periodic training. You know the keyboard members up the date. As you're aware, donna, the statutes require that once you get your board member certification, you don't have to take it again as long as you're on a board.
Speaker 1:Well, I understand that, again from a practical point of view, but from a realistic point of view, board members should be trained every year For the reasons that I just you know, with the, the safety laws that were passed in the aftermath of Champlain towers, one of the things we suggested to Florida legislators was that there be some training, if, just, if nothing else, just on those pieces, on the milestone Inspections and the structural integrity reserve study, and it didn't become part of the law. I think it's unfortunate that it didn't, because you're asking an awful lot of these volunteer boards and their managers to try to Meet these deadlines and understand the scope of what what's being asked of them.
Speaker 2:You know. The other thing I want to point out is for those board members who want to learn and who want to be good board members, who I believe are the vast majority of board members. You know A little sidetrack here. You know there's all this legislation last year where they wanted to criminalize this and criminalize that and you mentioned the hammocks, which was atrocious, what happened down there and there's a few other communities where things like that have happened. But those instances are far, far far the exception rather than the rule.
Speaker 2:In my experience, the rule is most board members are good people who want to do the right thing. We're trying to do the right thing and it takes one or two bad apples in the community to harass them. And Just, you know, some of the harassment of these board members is it's terrible and unfortunately it's a reflection of today's society. You know Everybody's real easy to sit behind a keyboard now and just blast away, whether it's on Facebook or whether it's, you know, sending emails about how terrible the board members are. But again, I think most board members are good people who want to do the right thing. There are a lot of resources out there for board members who want to educate themselves, not only our law firm. We have a plethora of courses that are available online. Other law firms have courses available, the division has courses, the state has courses. So for most board members who want to do the right thing, there's a lot of resources available.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have several communities right now where the boards are being harassed by a particular individual in the community. We've tried unsuccessfully to speak to our legislators so they kind of understand that the the harassment flows in both directions and you really can have one person who can tie up an entire community Can can increase the legal budget Exponentially. Who can you know, even if the manager is dealing with the aftermath of a casualty event like a hurricane, can be using the statute as a weapon in terms of document inspections and other requests? So, yeah, you're right and I do think there is a disconnect with legislators. It's not just in Florida, it's around the country. When they're thinking about Crafting community association legislation, they're always thinking about it in terms of the individual rights and and sometimes overlooking the fact that the board has to operate and you can have one person. That pretty much brings the operation to a standstill.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have a few situations like that myself. You know one or two people. You know they file frivolous complaints with the division. They file frivolous lawsuits, they file frivolous park complaints, they file Unreasonable record requests every day.
Speaker 1:You know, and these poor board members, who are good people, I you know what can we do and you mentioned a few minutes ago that there are a lot of communities where nobody wants to Serve out the board and sometimes this is the result of that, because they see what happens Sometimes when you do get on that on that board. I did want to ask you about listen. In your military Training there were a bunch of shore of operational manuals that you had to follow. Yes, what about our associations with governing documents? So you talked about board, volunteer board members, perhaps not fully Understanding the statute, but can you speak for a minute or two about Volunteer board members having to contend with truly out-of-date Antiquated governing documents?
Speaker 2:Well, let's talk about board members having to deal with government docu, governing documents, in the first place. I mean, you know, donna, we deal with them every day and when an association asked a question we got to go look at that associations documents because you know, I don't remember from today to yesterday what this document says, what that you mean you haven't committed everyone's documents to memory?
Speaker 2:My name's not Kendra. So yeah, I mean you know so. And board members, you know they need to look at your governing documents. But you know, look, let's be honest, the governing documents are usually written by attorneys. Okay, they're always written by attorneys and there's a lot of legalese in there and they're not always that easy to understand. So you know, this is another reason for some of these basic training, like board member boot camp, because we try to cut through the legalese, get to the chase, telling what you really need to know, or a practical, day-to-day basis, instead of you having to go. Look at article 7, paragraph D, subparagraph 2e. That says blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's why these courses are important. I think that's why they resonate with the clients.
Speaker 1:So, major pearl, any final thoughts for our listeners.
Speaker 2:The only final thoughts I would say is, first of all, thank you for the opportunity to speak with you, thank you for the kind words, and all I can say is you haven't been to a board member boot camp. You don't know what fun you're miss. Sign up once the invitations go out. We want you.
Speaker 1:Thanks.
Speaker 2:Howard. All right, thank you. Have a good day everybody.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining us today. Don't forget to follow and rate us on your favorite podcast platform, or visit ticket to the board comm for more ways to connect you.