As developers continue to build at a brisk pace, community association residents often find themselves sharing space with all types of wildlife including the good, the bad and the dangerous! What would you do if you spotted an alligator in your community pool? How about iguanas or possums snacking on your community garden? A bear tearing through your garbage? This week, host Donna DiMaggio Berger, is joined by Todd Hardwick, a nationally renowned wildlife expert with an astonishing 40-year career. Donna and Todd explore the difficulties of dealing with different types of wildlife in residential communities and the potential liability issues that arise should boards take no steps to intervene.
In this episode, Todd gives us a gripping account of the perils wildlife can pose to humans – the diseases they can transmit, the bodily harm they can inflict and the nuisances they create that can lead to mental distress. Donna and Todd also discuss the controversial issues surrounding the exotic pet trade, impacts on insurance policies, and potential legislative measures. Tune in to this important episode and learn how to avoid undesirable interactions with dangerous wildlife and what to do if you’re confronted by a predator.
Conversation highlights include:
BONUS: Learn how Todd captured a record-breaking 22-foot-long, 250-pound reticulated python that was hiding under a South Florida home!!
As developers continue to build at a brisk pace, community association residents often find themselves sharing space with all types of wildlife including the good, the bad and the dangerous! What would you do if you spotted an alligator in your community pool? How about iguanas or possums snacking on your community garden? A bear tearing through your garbage? This week, host Donna DiMaggio Berger, is joined by Todd Hardwick, a nationally renowned wildlife expert with an astonishing 40-year career. Donna and Todd explore the difficulties of dealing with different types of wildlife in residential communities and the potential liability issues that arise should boards take no steps to intervene.
In this episode, Todd gives us a gripping account of the perils wildlife can pose to humans – the diseases they can transmit, the bodily harm they can inflict and the nuisances they create that can lead to mental distress. Donna and Todd also discuss the controversial issues surrounding the exotic pet trade, impacts on insurance policies, and potential legislative measures. Tune in to this important episode and learn how to avoid undesirable interactions with dangerous wildlife and what to do if you’re confronted by a predator.
Conversation highlights include:
BONUS: Learn how Todd captured a record-breaking 22-foot-long, 250-pound reticulated python that was hiding under a South Florida home!!
Hi everyone. I'm attorney Donna DiMaggio-Burger and this is Take it to the Board where we speak. Kondo and HOA. Alligators, bears, snakes, iguanas, swans, raccoons, geese, possums and other wildlife can create headaches for community association residents and sometimes real danger. As someone who was greeted by noisy Egyptian geese honking away on my roof daily at 5AM a few years back, and whose garden has been routinely eaten by hungry iguanas, I can attest to the fact that wildlife is beautiful and awe-inspiring, but sometimes not the most courteous neighbor. Association boards and managers should have the name and number of a wildlife trap or handy before they have a problem with certain types of wildlife. You'll certainly want today's podcast guest listed under your favorites if you ever find a crocodile swimming in your community pool.
Speaker 1:Todd Hardwick is going to be speaking with us today. Todd is a native Floridian with a lifelong passion for wildlife. He's a nationally known wildlife expert with over 40 years experience in South Florida and is the owner of Pesky Critters Wildlife Control. By 1989, Todd was already an established trapper in the South Florida area when he gained national fame by trapping a record-breaking 22-foot-long, 250-pound reticulated python that was living under a South Florida home. Todd Hardwick has often been the consultant and guest star for news and media outlets including Animal Planet, the New York Times, PBS, People Magazine, National Geographic, Others Digest and many more, and has also appeared on numerous talk shows such as the Tonight Show, Deat Line, the Today Showed and Good Morning America. We are absolutely thrilled to have him on the podcast to talk about the work he does and why demand for his services is increasing. So, Todd, welcome to take it to the board.
Speaker 2:Thank you Great to be here. Take a little break from being out there in the heat.
Speaker 1:Out there in the heat and doing what you do. So, Todd, in the intro I talked about a bunch of different wildlife that is out there and interacting with community association residents. Can you tell us about some of the animals you've removed from condominium and homeowner association communities over the years?
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're actually a pretty common customer of ours. Generally these communities have a lot of acreage, they have lush landscaping, they have water features and sometimes they even a butt to wild natural areas. So that's just a combination for a lot of human and wildlife interaction. Unfortunately, many people aren't prepared for that and sometimes things get dicey and we get involved. But the scale of animals is never ending. I mean, there are days when I am convinced South Florida is a large open air zoo, because half of the animals we're getting calls on are not even native to the state of Florida, much less the United States.
Speaker 1:I can tell you, I live in a homeowner's association in Western Broward County and the strangest, as you said, non-native animal is I saw an otter swimming in the canal. Behind my house we abut a golf course. What are some of the animals you're seeing out there?
Speaker 2:Well, obviously the otters are more prevalent than people think. One of the concerns with otters is they do have a tendency to contract rabies. We've had several people bitten by rabid otters in Florida in the last couple of years. So even the cute ones you need to take serious as far as disease transmission. But on any given day we're receiving calls from homeowner associations and large properties reference alligators being seen sunning themselves, alligators eating ducks and other things. Arguanas are a huge call these days. All the waterfowl, particularly Egyptian geese and Muscovy ducks, are very popular. Complaints due to overpopulation, aggressive behavior, slip and falls from the duck droppings themselves, raccoon opossums getting into the crawl spaces of homes, snakes getting into engine compartments, the machine re-involving pool pumps, irrigation, the places that these animals turn up or never ending it's kind of crazy the places we remove them from. So you can expect the unexpected out there. Anything is possible. Believe anything when they call you.
Speaker 1:Oh boy, okay. So somebody calls you, you've got a condominium or a homeowner association that calls you. Is it typically to trap and remove the animal Todd?
Speaker 2:A lot of times they're looking for advice and we do give them advice to give them options on how to resolve some of the issues. But more often than not it's an overpopulation problem there's too many animals on their property or in that area and the properties won't sustain that. Or it's just plain liability. Obviously, if you're aware of a large alligator on the property and you don't take any action to remove him and something tragic happens, you're not in a good position. Or if somebody is chased by an Egyptian goose and they fall and they break their arm or they slip on the Muscovy duck droppings, there's a liability. I've been involved in a lot of litigation with wildlife over the years and some of these things are quite humorous, crazy. You wouldn't think it would end up in the course system, but it does.
Speaker 1:What's the solution? Let's say they ask you to come out and trap an alligator or deal with an iguana situation. What kind of equipment do you use for the live captures?
Speaker 2:We have dozens and dozens of different pieces of equipment, all for live capture, from tranquilizer rifles to custom designed live traps for iguanas and alligators and wild hogs. Waterfowl we have remote control drop nets that can catch an entire flock of waterfowl in one time, one shot. Always, constantly. We're testing equipment from people all over the country. This is a great state to get your stuff into if you want it field tested and see if it can hold up. It's constantly evolving, but everything is always designed with the welfare of the animal in mind. Everyone likes to see a happy ending. They don't want to see an animal injured, an animal treated roughly or inhumane. If that's what you're looking for, we definitely are going to give them the best care possible. Sometimes that's not cheap or a lot of people want to come out Shoot your iguanas and do other things and that may be a little cheaper, but in the long run it's probably not going to work out well.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about that. Is that even legal? I want to talk about iguanas I mentioned in the intro. I've had my own fair share of problems with iguanas eating up my landscaping, and I know a lot of other people in community associations do as well. Does the state of Florida allow people to shoot and kill iguanas?
Speaker 2:The state of Florida will allow you to remove iguanas, but they stipulate that it must be done humanely. They will allow you to shoot them, but you must have a firearm that would humanely kill that animal immediately. A local BB gun from the store is not going to be sufficient. It would take a professional level air gun to humanely kill an iguana. But that still doesn't mean that there's not a liability if that round were to ricochet or miss or exit the animal. If you get involved with shooting them, you need to check your local laws. Obviously, an air gun is not a firearm, so it is allowed in many cases, but you still need to be extremely proficient. Marksman level sharpshooter for sure, but it's tricky. And then other places they're not comfortable with three dozen dead iguanas laying around while they shoot them all. So it varies from property to property, what the people want, what the budget is, but the bottom line is, yes, they can be shot, but you must ensure that your main safe kill.
Speaker 1:But that's because, todd, they're considered a nuisance, and I think there's an alternative to that as well, which is relocating them correct.
Speaker 2:No, not at all. They are technically an exotic species. In fact they're now considered an invasive exotic species. They are not from the state of Florida. They were introduced in the 1960s through the pet trade and they slowly escaped and were released into the environment, and now they are absolutely out of control. They're collapsing seawalls, canal banks, lakes from burrowing into them, they are destroying landscapes, they're fouling swimming pools, they're leaving their feces everywhere, which can contain salmonella. So they're a huge problem and that's why they're only protected from cruelty. But you cannot live, catch one and release it back into the environment and in fact the state has now made it illegal to have one as a pet.
Speaker 1:I almost hate to ask this question, but are they edible? Is there? I mean, since you're telling me these iguanas, really there's really not an option to capture and relocate them? I assume when you, a professional, removes them and by remove we really mean terminate them Is there a market for iguana?
Speaker 2:meat In South America. The animal is farmed like we raise cattle and they market it as chicken of the tree and people that have eaten it say that it's delicious. They saute it with coconut milk and they make tacos out of it. I felt I'd never try it, not really interested in trying it, I mean, eventually I probably will, just so I can let people know my opinion on it. But unfortunately there's really not a market in South Florida for them. So even though they are live captured, they still have to be euthanized and so far the main use for them is crab trap date. A lot of people are using them for catching stone crabs, which is better than just going in the landfill, but the bottom line is there's no established meat market yet in the United States.
Speaker 1:Gotcha, but I think the takeaway is for our listeners that if you have an iguana problem, please call a professional, because, again, the goal here is to be humane and I don't know how many people who are not trained in this area could accomplish that.
Speaker 2:No, no doubt there's a lot of things involved in all of this. It looks easy on television or on the news or wherever, but reality is most everybody involved in wildlife control work has years of experience and has done it so many times that they make it look easy even though it really isn't.
Speaker 1:So you mentioned a few minutes ago, Todd, there are a lot of communities that are built with the wooded areas and drainage areas, all of which are home to various kinds of wildlife. So what do you recommend to boards in terms of avoiding having their residents avoid undesirable interactions with dangerous wildlife when you live in that kind of community? A lot of them border nature preserves. Certainly a lot have bodies of water. What's the best practices when it comes to avoiding a problem in the first place?
Speaker 2:Well, there are a lot of things you can do and there are things that you can't do anything about, but certainly you have waterway and wooded areas where there is known to be a lot of wildlife. It does not hurt to have signage up that lets people know that there is dangerous wildlife in the area. I see too many times that focus on alligators only. I prefer language of dangerous wildlife and that covers water moccasins, alligators, crocodiles, whatever may be there. And you're not airing people.
Speaker 2:In my mind, all we're trying to do is give them an awareness that if you're out walking your dog and if you let him get down by the edge of the water and when I say edge I mean within 20 feet of the water he will be eaten. In fact, so many dogs are eaten every year in Florida by alligators. The state doesn't even keep a record anymore. It's like an everyday event and sadly, almost always it was the dog owner at first, and sometimes, maybe even more than half the time, they just didn't realize, they didn't know. So that's why it's important to get the word out about this wildlife. You're not going to keep any of this wildlife off your property it will occasionally visit but bring people up to speed about it. The second problem you see a lot of is the feeding of wildlife. If you're feeding them, you're drawing more and more in every week. You're also drawing other animals, and if you're feeding cats outside, especially after dark, you're drawing raccoons, possums, fox, coyotes, wild hogs into the property close to people.
Speaker 1:I get asked a couple times a year by different clients to send a demand letter to a resident in the community who is feeding feral cats, and I think they just think they're doing a good thing taking care of these animals. Some of these residents even go and they get the cats neutered, which is great. But from what you're saying, feeding the feral cats can draw a lot of other potentially dangerous wildlife into the vicinity.
Speaker 2:That is correct. If somebody is going to feed and it's allowed it definitely needs to happen during daylight hours and under supervision, so that that person can scare off any wildlife by yelling, throwing a tennis ball and then bring the food in. But if you're leaving it out after dark, you're feeding probably more wildlife than you are the cat.
Speaker 1:I want to go back to what you said about the dogs and walking the dog near a body of water. You said 20 feet. I think most people think, ok, five feet or less yes, now I'm putting my animal at risk, but 20 feet, how quickly can a gator get out of the water and get at your pet?
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, you're already making a mistake. The alligators are ambush predators. He may be in a bush, 10 feet from the edge of the water. He's there silently waiting for the dog to get in range. In a split second, he has grabbed that dog and it's back in the water. You have no reaction time, neither does the dog. So that's why I'm saying awareness. You're watching for the water. I'm looking at the hedge, 10 feet from the water.
Speaker 1:See, that's the difference. You know what to look for. The rest of us don't. We're looking in the wrong direction, and you're right. The ambush attack is one that I think most people are not prepared for.
Speaker 2:Three of our most recent fatalities with alligators on humans were drawn in for a dog. At the very last second, the dog got out of the way and the dog handler was taken. You're not just risking your dog, you're risking yourself.
Speaker 1:In South Florida there's both correct Alligators and crocodiles.
Speaker 2:That is correct. We also have a third one called a caiman, which was introduced years ago and is an exotic invasive species. So I routinely am removing gators, crocodiles and caiman from South Florida.
Speaker 1:Wow, which is the most dangerous of those three?
Speaker 2:Todd All of them are capable of death and injury. As far as who has the most aggressive personality, probably the caiman. The American crocodile fortunately for us is the nicest crocodilian on the planet. If we had saltwater crocodile or a nile crocodile, it would be very different. So our crocodile is not known to be aggressive at all towards people, but he certainly doesn't know the difference between a dog and a cat and a raccoon and a palsam. They're all similar size. They're all a prey item. Any wild animal can make them safe as well. A lot of our so-called attacks to me. When I get there and find out what's really happened, I call them an incident or a bite, because the animal didn't actually attack, but somebody may have ended up being bitten through the series of events that happened.
Speaker 1:Of course, listen, folks, if you're sitting there and you see one of these things. By the way, I do live on a golf course. I have seen I don't know if I was looking at an alligator or a crocodile or a caiman, I don't care, I'm not sitting there trying to think in my mind what am I looking at? I'm just trying to get away from the situation. I think that's probably advisable, not to try to stand in front of the creature and figure out what it is.
Speaker 2:Yes, you would think that would be the case, but unfortunately, like everything, people want to get close, they want to take a picture, they want to make friends. These animals don't necessarily want to be your friends. They want to be left alone. If we respect them and we keep our distance, we'll be fine, but when we don't do that, that's when accidents happen. It's the problem with it too, because I'm on both sides of it. A lot of times we have an alligator incident and the alligator gets blamed and suddenly 500 people around Florida want their alligator removed that normally they had been letting it stay. So one person being stupid or making a mistake in their behavior and getting hurt it negatively impacts all the wildlife because everybody overreacts. They want every alligator rounded up and it's not necessary. It's not really going to solve the problem. So we wanted to make sure that nothing bad happens, not just for the people, but for the good of the wildlife that gets blamed.
Speaker 1:I'm so glad you raised that because we see every year so many incidences of people being reckless with their interactions with wildlife. We see it out in Yellowstone. I was out in Yellowstone a couple of years ago. It's absolutely amazing. But in other national parks as well, you've got people being completely reckless, completely disregarding the power of these animals. They're walking up to bears or bison, I think one individual a few years ago tried to put his toddler on top of a bison and took a picture. Of course you've got people that'll do anything for an Instagram photo. I'm just going to say it. What do you say to people who are this reckless when it comes to interacting with wildlife?
Speaker 2:You know a lot of them, I think, don't appreciate the danger or the speed or the capability of these animals, but they should. I mean, it's so bad that when I was in Yellowstone they actually had to post a ranger every time a bear or elk or a moose was on the edge of the road and his entire job was to keep people away from the animal. People just can't behave responsibly or even with some common sense. You don't need to tell me that it's a bad idea to go up to a 2,000-pound bison, but some people seem to not understand that there's danger there.
Speaker 1:I don't know, maybe we've become so detached from wildlife other than you know seeing it in a zoo that when we see it in real life, I guess you're right. Some people just don't know how to assess the risk. But I did want to ask you is the demand for your services, todd? Is it increasing because we are running out of open space?
Speaker 2:Our services are increasing every year and it's a lot of things. One, we're certainly developing all of the available land, so we're displacing a lot of wildlife, which is adjusting, by moving in under wooden decks, under hot tubs, into your fruit trees, into the neighborhood park, the common area, the exercise path. But the other thing is that so many people are not from South Florida so they do not have what I call alligator common sense. They don't know they're snakes, venomous and non-venomous. They don't know a possum from a rat. So if you have no wildlife education due to being new to the neighborhood or just being, I guess, kind of box all your life, it's tough. That's why we spend so much time educating people, talking to people, trying to calm them down, trying to find middle ground, Because we have to all coexist to some degree. You are not going to make all the wildlife disappear from the urban area we want. I don't think we want that too. It's not possible.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, some of it is the wildlife that's existing there. But I've had clients actually import animals into their community. I remember one client in Boca years ago. They purchased two swans that they thought would look beautiful in their lake. Later one of those swans attacked a father and his he was an eight-year-old son because they were trying to feed this swans just what you talked about. So sometimes it's an issue where the community's actually imported some wildlife because they think it adds some atmosphere to the community.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I've done many removal of Australian black swans, white swans, Egyptian geese. All of these animals are particularly aggressive during the breeding season and sometimes just any time of the year. They're pretty onery. They'll chase you, they'll grab at you, they'll pinch at you and people fall, they trip and they get scared. So it's not just the native wildlife, it's the introduced wildlife, the exotic wildlife.
Speaker 1:Are you ever asked to move wildlife by developers before they before new construction breaks ground? So they purchased a parcel of land tood that's entirely wooded. Are you ever asked to come in and move wildlife before they break ground?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. That's a really good thing that some of the more responsible developers do. Obviously, if you're going to develop the last 100 acres in the middle of a high density community, everything on that 100 acres is going to go immediately into the surrounding neighborhood. So one not only is that going to cause trouble, but those neighborhoods know exactly where all this wildlife came from. So you're going to have them complaining about noise and anything they can because they're upset about the wildlife. So moving it out of there is a good thing as far as preventing issues, but it's not always feasible. It takes for a relocation site. It would have to be within the same county of that development. It would also have to be more than 40 acres in size, and those type of properties are disappearing and they're also at carrying capacity. So sometimes the idea of moving the animal or relocating them it's not feasible. There's just nowhere you can bring him. It's not already at capacity. The no vacancy signs are up, so it's a tough issue.
Speaker 1:I imagine that there's quite a few animal fatalities. If they don't, it's a developer doesn't attempt to remove any of the animals. I mean once those plows start going. I would imagine that a lot of animals suffer and die as a result of the new construction.
Speaker 2:Well, I see it every morning. I'm on the road quite early because of alligators and different things that are out and about, and in the morning I see an average of five or six roadkill Every day as I drive through Dade Broward County, palm Beach County I mean anyone that starts to look for that, you'll see it. There's a lot of roadkill and those are animals that are being displaced from development. They're being displaced from yards being too busy with dogs and other things that cause them to have to pack up and move out of there. As well as the continuing increase of the population, I find sometimes a higher density population of raccoons, possums per acre in the urban environment than you would out in the wild, because in the urban environment there's much more available food, even though it's not always what they would have found in the wild, but the population is higher.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, speaking of that, we are continuing to see a lot of bears throughout Florida. Right, always on the news, you'll see a bear wandering in the streets at night, getting into people's garbage, going in their backyards, and again, this is not just about Florida. We've got people listening in associations around the world. But, first of all, what do you say to people?
Speaker 2:feel that humans are the real problem here.
Speaker 1:We're encroaching on their habitat. Is there any way to coexist?
Speaker 2:With a lot of these animals you can, as long as you do not turn the animal into the nuisance. The feeding causes all of these animals to lose their fear of people, approach people closer than they normally, would, start breaking into cars and boats and sheds and garages. So it's our behavior that corrupts these animals and makes them go from an urban animal to the nuisance animal. And the number one correction I make five times a day on the phone is people get on the phone when they and they start to huff and puff that an alligator has moved into their neighborhood and I have to explain to them that five years ago their neighborhood was a weapon and that the lake he's in was dug and that he was there during all that and that they're the ones that moved into his neighborhood that make or see to tell me that they paid a half a million dollars for their home and they're not willing to share it with an alligator, no matter who was there first.
Speaker 1:I can imagine the stories you hear, but nevertheless the job is to remove right at that owner's request.
Speaker 2:Yes, we'll educate them and we'll let them make a decision. And don't get me wrong people always have to come before wildlife. We're not going to let a child get hurt by a wild animal just because the wild animal should have had some right and he was there first. That's all true, but people come first.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, that's a perfect segue for me to ask you whether or not you can describe the types of wildlife that people generally think are harmless but are actually quite capable of harming humans. For instance, you mentioned otters. Now, everybody in my HOA was enchanted by the fact that we had this cute little otter swimming on his back up and down the canal. But you've already said, otters are not without the potential to harm. What kind of wildlife do people mistakenly see as being completely harmless but in fact they can pose a danger?
Speaker 2:Absolutely All of it. I've had people hospitalized with blood poisoning and severe infection from possum bites because they reached into their garbage can. To add garbage, a possum had fallen in there and couldn't get out. He bit them in the wrist and now they have a puncture loaded with bacteria and they're in the hospital with infections, bone problems.
Speaker 2:Raccoons If you do not capture the raccoon that bit you which you never do they always run off. You're going to be forced to take rabies shots from the local health department because rabies has no cure. So they're a problem. The ducks can carry many different diseases, including slip and fall with the droppings. The alligators highly infectious bite, even with an 18 inch hatchling. All of our non venomous snakes can cause infection. We do have four venomous snakes in South Florida. They're fairly rare but they're out there. Hidgens carry diseases. All these neighborhood chickens carry diseases. There are so many things that the wildlife can transmit to us. If we handle them or we get bit, and that's what's good. It takes close quarters usually to have a problem. So if we give them their space and we don't feed them, we don't try to touch them, catch them or pet them, we're going to be good.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, even if we don't get in physical proximity. What about the mental harm I mentioned in the outset? Todd, a couple years back I had an Egyptian geese problem. I live on a golf course in a homeowner's association and there were two Egyptian geese that decided the roof directly over my master bedroom was the place to start honking away at 5am, and this went on for weeks. And I'll tell you, I'm the type of person I really need my sleep and it was making me a little crazy.
Speaker 2:No, I have a lot of people that have the same problem, not just with the waterfowl but with a rooster who's 30 feet up in a tree, thinks he's supposed to crow at two o'clock in the morning and they can't sleep. I have that problem with people that have tree frogs in the bathroom or on the pool patio and they can't sleep because the frogs are making noise all night long. The phone rings off the hook over the peacocks and their mating call that echoes throughout the neighborhood. We get a lot of complaints because neighborhood dogs tree a raccoon or a possum and they bark all night because that animal will not come out of that tree.
Speaker 1:And you feel bad because you know they have a right to be there, right, but it's still impacting your you know it's impacting your sleep, it's impacting your ability to work if this is going on at a time when you're trying to get some work done, so it really is. Look, there's going to be, I think, some inherent problems when you've got humans and wildlife. There's got to be ways and you've been telling us ways to deal with it, but you do feel bad at times. I felt bad with the geese, but I also knew that I, you know I needed to get some sleep. I did actually have a trap or come and relocate them, but I think they're back now.
Speaker 2:I mean under Florida law they should have been placed in captivity permanently or euthanized, but people acquire them all the time and bring them home to canals and lakes and they move around, they travel, and it's funny sometimes when you're when I'm in a neighborhood certain people are complaining about the fact that we're removing an animal, but then a year or two later, when that same person has a problem themselves, they see it a lot differently and they want it removed. So it just depends too on if you're directly being affected or not. But it's not uncommon to have a neighborhood war with each other. Half the people do not want the gator removed, or the goose or the duck or the swan or whatever it is, the peacock especially, and you split a neighborhood between those that want it and those that don't want it.
Speaker 1:Very true. And then listen, this is not the only divisive issue in our community associations. We tend to have two schools of thought on a variety of issues. You just triggered another question for me. I mentioned in the introduction that you had a record capture a 22 foot long, 250 pound reticulated python. Now I looked up the species and they're not venomous. You said we have four venomous species in Florida. The python's not, but they squeezed their prey. This type of python, from what I saw, has been known to kill humans. Is that how they do it, Todd? They squeeze that right. They're a constrictor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're a constrictor. The reticulated python is the longest snake in the world. The heaviest would be the anaconda. This particular snake had been living in a state park in Broward County for many, many years, eating raccoons and growing large, occasionally being seen. But when people would report a 15 and 20-foot-long snake, no one believed them. Back then this was 33 years ago we didn't have the known python problem, so everyone thought they were hallucinating. But eventually it left the park one night, grabbed a raccoon. The raccoon screamed as it was being constricted. The people looked out their door and they saw this monster snake swallow that raccoon and then go underneath their house. And so the next day I basically burrowed in under there with it, and myself and three assistants were able to capture what even today is still the longest and the heaviest python ever caught in this country.
Speaker 1:Can you tell us how you captured it? From the back, from the head? Did you pull it out? Did you use ropes? What was the method?
Speaker 2:When we found it it was on the opposite side of the house. So we dug a second hole on the other side of the house, directly above it, and they grabbed me by my ankles and they hung me straight down on top of the snake. Snake struck at me and I was able to wiggle and it overshot my throat and I was able to get a snare pole onto it and then yell for them to pull me and, as dead, the snake thought I was trying to get away and literally rocketed up with me and we all kind of spilled out out of the ground and we wrestled it into a Coleman sleeping bag and zipped it up.
Speaker 1:You know, Todd, I know from my research on you that you've been doing this since you were kid. But have you ever had any close calls where you were legitimately scared for your life?
Speaker 2:Yes, Twice I've been tangled in capture ropes and taken to the bottom of a canal by alligators, which were still connected to the ropes and were spinning and fighting and trying to get me while drowning both of us. I've been hospitalized twice with infections, bites, but overall I have ever been seriously injured or hurt and to me that's how it should be. People are so disappointed when they see me somewhere, they ask me to start showing them all my scars and my injuries and I don't have any to show them and they look so disappointed. And then I ask them if I was a good trapper, shouldn't I not have scars to show you? I mean, a good trapper shouldn't have those things.
Speaker 1:I agree, and I guess I would attribute the fact that you don't have those scars is that, A you're really good at what you do, B you prepare and, C you have a lot of respect for the wildlife with whom you're interacting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the key, and that's also the key for people at home Understand all of these animals. If you know you have a coyote in the neighborhood or a gray fox or an alligator, go on the internet. Once we start to read about them and we know more about them and their behaviors, they're not so mysterious, they're not so scary anymore and we're more likely to try and find a way to exist and maybe even talk to our neighbor about some behavior they could alter.
Speaker 1:It's a really good suggestion. You mentioned iguanas. Not being native to Florida, how big a problem is the fact that people get these exotic pets? It doesn't work out and they release them into the wild.
Speaker 2:How big a problem is that it's a huge problem. All these pythons we read about were all introduced from the pet trade. The iguanas are from the pet trade, the taegus, the caiman, the muscovy ducks, the egyptian geese, the swans, the monk parrots that are in the sky flying everywhere. Half the vegetation in our canal and lake systems, half the fish in there are non-native and they're invasive and they're problematic, causing the native wildlife to disappear. They're in direct competition but they don't have any natural predator or control. So it's a huge problem and a lot of this we're not going to fix it.
Speaker 1:Well, I know you've done so much over your four decade career. Have you ever been asked to testify in front of the Florida legislature or Congress to talk about this particular problem?
Speaker 2:Not really. They seem to not like to address problems until it's too late. The Burmese python we all knew about this for 25 years, but now in the last 10, it's a big story, but it was a slow developing situation. But again, if you identify a problem then you have to fix the problem. So if you're not ready to fix it, maybe you don't want to identify it.
Speaker 1:Well, we've had a few legislators on the show. We know legislators listen to the show. So if you're listening, you know Todd's your guy If you want to have him come up to Tallahassee. Sorry, I don't mean to volunteer you, Todd, but you could certainly speak to the fact that cracking down on the exotic pet trade might be a good investment.
Speaker 2:Many of these animals are now not available legally to have as a pet in Florida, but it's the case of too little, too late. We've now banned the Kiwanis as pets. Well, that's going to have no impact on what's currently out there and in fact, it might have limited some of them being captured. It might be that people would catch one and make it a pet. Now, if they can't have it as a pet, they're not going to catch it. So we need to find an incentive for the removal of more of these animals and we need to figure out ways to avoid the problem ahead of time.
Speaker 2:Perfect example several times I've gone out to California to appear on different programs Johnny Carson and Jay Leno as examples and they always want me to bring all these animals that I catch and talk about. Well, when I call out to California Fish and Game to get permission and permits to bring these things nine out of 10 animals that I've wanted to bring they will not allow me to. They say that is illegal in California. If you land at the airport with it, we will take it from you and we will euthanize it. So when I go out there, I have to rent an alligator, I have to rent a mountain lion, I have to rent a monkey, a python.
Speaker 2:The only thing they ever let me bring was a large monogor lizard and that reticulated python. They allowed me to bring that for Johnny Carson and Ed McMahon to measure on stage. But 80, 90% of what I want to bring, they say no, you're not bringing it, we don't care why, we don't care that it won't get away, it is not landing here. And New York has a lot of laws way tougher than us. So does Pennsylvania, and they don't even have the kind of climate that we do. So I just think we were slow to realize the potential trouble.
Speaker 1:And Todd, that was years before when you went out to California to appear on those shows. That was years before people were trying to bring these kinds of animals into the passenger cabin as emotional support animals. I'm assuming when you brought the python and the monitor they were in the cargo, so I wanted to ask you about that. We've seen all sorts of things go in the passenger cabin Peacocks, turkeys. One guy tried to bring an alligator. Actually it was just in the news last week. A Phillies fan had an emotional support animal named Wally Gator and they denied him. He was trying to watch the Philadelphia game versus the Pittsburgh pirates. Is somebody who's trapped these animals? Do you see them as possible pets and or emotional support animals?
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, there's a huge difference between wildlife and a domestic animal like a dog or a cat. They have thousands of years of breeding to be companion animals for humans. Wild animals have all those wild instincts. They have no ability that I've ever seen to look at us in a different manner other than a food source, whether we're giving them the food or we are the food. As far as what gives emotional support, I would be uncomfortable allowing a lot of those animals around other people, because it's your emotional support, whether it really is or isn't. The fact that it's there in close proximity. Now you're encroaching on their right to be safe from injury or disease who knows what. So this is a gray area that I've been really uncomfortable with for a long time and I'm glad to see they are starting to change the rules on that, but I think it's been exploited by people.
Speaker 1:I agree, I think it's gotten a bit out of control. I mean, I will tell you, the last couple of plane rides I took, there were emotional support dogs barking at each other throughout the plane ride. But those are domesticated animals. I agree with you in terms of the non domesticated animals, Regardless if they are providing emotional support for their owner. We get complaints all the time, particularly in multi-family buildings, Todd, where people have to share common space with them the elevators, the lobby, the hallways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I'm seeing a trend also with insurance companies. They're now excluding exotic animals on property. If you're going to have rent or insurance or homeowner insurance, a lot of these exotic animals can actually void that policy. Renters don't realize that, or the landlord, but you know I was just contacted this past week by an attorney that he's in litigation over somebody that has exotic animals. They did not disclose it. There's an incident and everybody's pointing at each other saying it's your fault, it's your responsibility, it's a big problem. So I caution everybody to pay attention that the presence of exotic animals may change some of your insurance coverage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there certainly may be strict liability associated with owning an exotic animal. Have you, Todd, ever adopted any of the animals you've trapped?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, over the years I've had emus, ostriches, parrots, alligators, and always because I couldn't find a suitable home and unfortunately I live on some acreage, so they ended up here. But it's hard to place some of these problem animals and animals that require special licensing, special needs, not just anybody is able to, legally or capable to do it. Yeah, we've had dozens of different things over the years and it actually helps me when I get a call to go capture some of these more exotic animals, a fact that I've owned them and worked with them. I know their behavior, I know their vaneurisms, I know what they're capable of. So when I have to go up against another one of the same species, I can read body language and I know what the problems may be and how to handle it safely.
Speaker 1:In your experience, Todd, how willing are the police to respond to a call from somebody in the community when they're dealing with a wildlife issue?
Speaker 2:They generally will respond but they will not take action. I respond five or six times a week for local police who are on scene with something an alligator, raccoon that bit somebody, a snake that's in a car engine. They don't have the training and they don't know what to do, what they would do it once they did catch it. And you can't ask a highly trained police officer to potentially suffer a career-ending injury if a wild animal like an alligator were to grab him in the hand. If he loses that gunhand use even you know this from damage that may be his career on the street.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that reinforces my advice at the outset, which is people are going to want to have your, you or a similar wildlife expert, your name and number, somewhere handy when these issues arise.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, all the police call us were constantly helping them and one of them asked would you come to the station and show me how to do this? And I told them I'd rather not. I don't want you to do this. You don't do enough to do it safe and if you were to get hurt it's not worth it. Any look at me and he goes. You know what? You're right? I go. I know I can show you, but it's not the same. It takes years of experience and you have to catch 100 of them before it even begins to become comfortable. So we try to discourage them from wanting to get involved. I mean, we see it every year on the news and it usually works out okay. But I'm aware of quite a few times when it didn't feel bad that that happens.
Speaker 1:You know I hadn't thought about it the way you just articulated it, which is listen, you need a specialist Police. Law enforcement is not typically dealing with wildlife and in the event something goes wrong, it could be a career ending move for that officer if he or she is seriously injured. I hadn't thought about it that way, but it's an important point.
Speaker 2:Oh, and they understand. In fact, when I was telling this officer that the other officer started to ask some questions, I think he was feeling a little bit put down, like you know. He couldn't catch a gator and I looked at him. I'm like you know, don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying you guys couldn't do this, but we all are experts. I said the one thing I would never do and you do it all the time is to go to a domestic disturbance. Everybody in there is already upset and screaming and going crazy. I wouldn't want to do that for anything.
Speaker 1:It's a good, it's a fair point. So do you have any advice for listeners who, despite all their all their preventative measures, may come face to face one night or day with an animal that's that that's considered a typical predator?
Speaker 2:whether it's an alligator.
Speaker 1:A bear a mountain lion, any advice of A being able to deal and safely extricate themselves from that situation, and or being able to tell if the animal is going to attack.
Speaker 2:Yeah, with most of these animals, whether it be a bear or an alligator or even a raccoon or a coyote or a fox, the best thing you can do is to raise your arms above your head to increase your silhouette profile. The bigger you look, the less inclined these animals are going to be to push the situation. I would then back up. You do not want to turn your back and run. They'll let them or tell them no and keep backing up. You're going to be fine, you'll get out of everything, but you don't want to run, you don't want to turn your back and you want to look big. If you have a dog with you, scoop him up, get him in your arms and back up with him. A lot of our dogs, even especially the smaller ones, are very protective. I've had them charge up to gators and crocodiles in defense of their owner and they've been killed. Get that dog in your arms and back up with him.
Speaker 1:Great advice. I don't think my cat is ever going to be protective of me, but great advice for the dog owners out there. Todd, can you give people your contact information so they know where to find you?
Speaker 2:If they go to pespecreditorscom. We have date hour phone numbers. We have a 1-800 number for people that call us all over the country for advice and we'll be happy to help them, whether it's just a phone call or even a site visit, whatever is necessary.
Speaker 1:Todd, I really want to thank you for your time today. You gave us so much valuable information. Listen, this problem and I don't even know if I want to categorize it as a problem, but this issue of humans and wildlife interacting and sometimes problems ensuing it's not going to go away. So it's really valuable insight you gave us today and thanks so much.
Speaker 2:Not a problem. You have a great day and be safe out there.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining us today. Don't forget to follow and rate us on your favorite podcast platform, or visit takeitotheboardcom for more ways to connect.