Take It To The Board with Donna DiMaggio Berger
Take It To The Board with Donna DiMaggio Berger
A Guide to Impact-Resistant Windows and Doors
On this week’s episode of Take It To The Board podcast, we're opening the doors—and windows—to a topic that’s both timely and critical for community associations both in hurricane season and year-round impact doors and windows. Host Donna DiMaggio Berger and guest Ben Friedman, owner and President of CitiQuiet Windows, explore the ins and outs of impact-resistant windows and doors: what they do, what they cost and how they are important not just as hurricane protection.
Donna and Ben debunk common myths, distinguish between impact-resistant and impact-proof materials, and emphasize the importance of replacing all damaged components post-storm. Through real-life scenarios, they share insights into the vulnerabilities of older installations and the critical role certified installers play in maintaining the integrity and performance of impact windows and doors.
Conversation Highlights Include:
- Florida Building Code requirements for hurricane-impact windows and doors
- Biggest installment hurdles in an owner-occupied building
- Lifespan and maintenance for impact windows vs. non-impact windows
- Maintenance protocols for windows and sliding doors in high-rise buildings
- Long-term savings in insurance premiums and energy bills
- Available wind mitigation credits
- Advancements in impact window technology on the horizon
Related Links:
Hi everyone, I'm attorney Donna DiMaggio-Berger and this is Take it to the Board, where we speak condo and HOA. Today, on Take it to the Board, we're opening the doors and windows to a topic that's both timely and critical for community associations impact doors and windows. Our guest today is Ben Friedman, the owner and president of City Quiet Windows since 2012. Ben just doesn't install glass. He's building the first line of defense between you and Mother Nature's worst moods.
Speaker 2:Ben, welcome to Take it to the Board. Thank you, Donna. Thank you for having us.
Speaker 1:I am excited about today's topic because, ben, I can't tell you every week I get calls from clients talking about this very issue. Either they have impact windows and doors that they're in the midst of a concrete restoration project or they don't. They have some units that do have the impact glass and others do not. So this is a perpetually popular topic and it's one we haven't discussed previously on the podcast. So I'm happy you're here previously on the podcast, so I'm happy you're here. I'm thinking maybe we start out, ben, for our listeners, talking about what the current Florida building code requirements are that classifies a window or sliding glass door as being impact resistant.
Speaker 2:Sure, so again, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. I'm a big fan of the podcast and I'm honored to be here. As far as the Florida Building Code goes, not sure if you're aware, but the Florida Building Code changes every three years. We're currently following the eighth edition of the Florida Building Code, which was put into effect on December 31st of 2023. It will change again in 2026. Right now, the current wind speed requirements are for Palm Beach and Broward County, of 170 miles per hour and for Miami-Dade County is 175 miles per hour. That's a generalization. So windows and doors are all tested and receive a certification, either through the Florida Building Code or through Miami-Dade's Notice of Acceptance process.
Speaker 2:There are two main components that make up a window or door being approved for impact-resistant use. One is, of course, the glass. The glass is some form of what we call laminated glass. Laminated glass is the same technology as the front windshield of a car, the other component being the frame. The frame has to be structurally sound and strong, and strong enough to be installed into these different types of substrates so that they don't get blown out or sucked in. So you have two components. One is the structural integrity of the window, that being the frame, the other is the glass, that being that a missile can bounce off of the glass, break the glass, no different than the front window of a car. However, when it's raining and you're driving and it's pouring rain, you can have your wipers on. No water comes inside.
Speaker 1:So the goal is nothing's really going to move right. It's not going to be blown in or blown out.
Speaker 2:That's the goal. The goal is that the frame is installed properly into the substrate so that the frame stays in place and doesn't blow in or get sucked out. Part two is is that the glass is able to take a direct impact and this missile hitting the glass bounces off of it. Although the glass may shatter, it will spider web and, as opposed to it shattering and making a mess in someone's home or in someone's business or in common property, it will stay intact. That's that centerpiece, that laminate that will allow it to go through a storm and even post-storm and not have water intrusion.
Speaker 1:Well, I want to talk to you about post-storm, because I imagine you get called out. We had Ian, unfortunately, a few years ago. We are heading into October when we're taping this, which is one of traditionally one of the most active hurricane months. I imagine you get called out again after a storm and you've seen some damage done to your windows. At that point, you always have to replace the frames as well, right? Not just the glass.
Speaker 2:Correct. So that's a great point and I was actually going to bring it up later on here which is people have the misconception that an impact window is any old frame and an opening and I can just put hurricane glass in it and be a hurricane window. Remember it's the frame and the glass. So no system is going to get approved by Miami-Dade or the Florida Building Code for use unless it's hurricane glass, laminated glass in a hurricane impact resistant frame. And I also want to clarify they are hurricane impact resistant.
Speaker 2:They are not hurricane impact proof, impact resistant. They are not hurricane impact proof. So they withstand a certain level that they are tested and approved to withstand. However, they are not hurricane proof. If something mother nature comes and sits on a certain area for a specific period of time that's longer than what the window or door is tested to withstand, there's a chance that they may see some failure, no different than let's use the example of a watch. A watch is designed for 60 minutes to be water resistant. Well, if you leave the watch in the water or you're diving and you're down there for an hour and a half, there may be a chance that that watch may not work. So it's no different with impact windows and doors. They're impact and hurricane resistant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so if you have a hurricane that's stalled over a certain area and it just keeps pounding the buildings with this glass, it may have an impact. Have you actually gone into any of the places where they do the testing to see how they test these windows?
Speaker 2:and doors I have. It's very cool. You can look it up on YouTube as well. What they do is they call the testing facility a lab, and what they'll do is they'll take a window that has been designed for hurricane code compliance that's the intention and they'll put it on what we would call a wall, and the wall is basically a structure no different than a concrete structure that we install windows and doors in every day here in South Florida.
Speaker 2:Specifically. They'll put it on the wall and the first thing that they'll do is they'll shoot a two by four at the center of the glass, and the two by four will bounce off of the glass and the glass will break. Now, what they'll do is no different than what is done during or after an installation in a building is they will do chamber testing. So they'll build a chamber to simulate a controlled environment whereby they'll simulate suction with a very strong vacuum, and they will shoot out of sprinkler heads a certain amount of water over a certain period of time at the broken window and cycle it thousands and thousands of times for 15 minute periods, and every time it passes a 15 minute period, you get closer and closer to achieving this certificate of acceptance. Let's call it where this window and door now has been put through a simulated hurricane and it can be used on the street.
Speaker 1:I imagine the technology keeps changing too. They're always trying to make it withstand more for longer.
Speaker 2:Correct. So the building code changes every three years, which will dictate that there will be stronger codes to follow. Thus the window or door needs to be improved, whether that's a thicker piece of glass, whether that's different reinforcements within framing, may even be different anchors used for installation to be able to achieve a higher rating right. So these manufacturers that are out there are competing with each other on a daily basis to earn installers business, so they need to keep up with one another or be innovative to say this is why you should use our product versus someone else's.
Speaker 1:You've mentioned a certain amount of lamination our product versus someone else's. You've mentioned a certain amount of lamination, so let's talk about that. What's?
Speaker 2:the distinction between regular plate glass and these impact windows. Okay, so regular plate glass we would consider to be either plate glass or, let's call it even, annealed glass. So you have two types of single pane glass. You have either annealed glass, which, when it breaks, it breaks and it's very, very sharp and it can break in very large pieces that could cut you and hurt you. You then have tempered glass. Tempered glass is more like safety glass. Safety glass is like the side window of a car, when, if someone wants to break in through the side window, you'll see little shards of glass pile up inside the location of impact. Those are the two types of single pane glass. Those two types of glass get used with a laminate. Think of it as a type of PVC, a film that is sandwiched in between two pieces of glass, heated up in what we would call an autoclave, to then be one unit or one board of glass, so that when it gets impacted it stays together.
Speaker 1:And so when you go out to some of these older condos, do they often have just this tempered glass or plate glass in the unit windows and doors?
Speaker 2:They do. And just a quick side story we came into a condo back in 2016 after a storm 18-story building, hollywood Beach. A lot of shutters, a lot of exterior accordion shutters with 40-year-old windows still installed. Shutters closed. Came to the unit post-hurricane, walked into the unit on the 16th floor glass everywhere. Why Shutters closed. Nothing impacted the glass.
Speaker 2:A hurricane is a pressure system. So much pressure built up in between the closed shutter and this weak plate annealed glass that the pressure needed to escape, so it forced its way out of the weakest point. The weakest point was the glass. So we came into a unit glass everywhere. You can still see daylight through the accordion shutters, which means pressure has now entered the unit, as well as air humidity and water. So we see it. Many of the older buildings. That's how they're built. Laminated glass in condominium associations hasn't really been a thing. The Florida building code and impact resistant products really became a more popular thing post 2004. So you have many buildings that are 40 years old that have original windows and doors in them that are now starting to make this change because of their life.
Speaker 1:Well, you know you're. Having said that is making me think about my own home, where I have impact glass around the outside of my home. It's a U-shaped courtyard home, but around the interior courtyard I have Anderson doors home, but around the interior courtyard I have Anderson doors, plate glass and electric shutters. Now you've got me thinking that I may still have a problem. So that's another conversation. Let's talk about installation, because I know whether it's the association Ben installing the windows, the windows and the sliding glass doors, or it's the owners who want to do it. Sometimes they're looking how do I say? I'm just going to say it they're looking to go cheap. So they're thinking maybe the association handyman can install these things, or the owner may buy the, you know, may buy the window, the glass and again get a friend or somebody to install. Walk us through the installation requirements of the code, because I assume they can't do that. They need to have a certification. It's met the standards when it's installed properly and it's been put to the test right.
Speaker 2:So if it's not installed properly, then that certification on that window is only as good as it is. So the installation piece is extremely important. Manufacturers in our industry here in South Florida partner with only certified installers so that they can feel comfortable selling their products to qualified installers who can install them properly and also stand behind them. And manufacturers want to be able and feel comfortable that they're selling windows and doors to someone like ourselves and that we can troubleshoot and navigate around any issues that come up so that they don't need to send the service team out there. So there are what we would call certified installers for many of the different manufacturers and you need to obviously be a licensed, insured and sometimes even a bonded contractor that has the experience to install in specific areas.
Speaker 2:Specifically here, what you do and I do every day is we install in high-rise condominium associations. That's a very unique place. It know it kind of goes into. You know how do we go into this controlled space with many different personalities and many different owners and try to satisfy as many people as possible in the most efficient time that we can, and sometimes that's challenging, but with really good communication and really good meetings held weekly or biweekly to go through scheduling and stuff. You really result in a positive experience.
Speaker 1:Well, I was going to ask you about a communication plan because, listen, I'm sure you install for developers, that's much easier A building going up, you're dealing with just the developer and the contractor, you're not dealing with owners versus trying to install all these windows and doors in an owner-occupied building. So, yeah, communication is going to be key, isn't it? How long, would you say, a typical install lasts? Let's say we're talking about a 12-story building, ben, a couple of weeks, a 12-story building.
Speaker 2:I would say, let's say 100 units. Yeah, 100 units. We're looking at one right now and I think our timeline is three months.
Speaker 1:So people need. So you're keeping them apprised along the way we're coming to your stack on this day. We're going to be dealing with it here's maybe even where you can park your car. Also, access to the balcony, I would assume, is an issue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally so. We like to give the unit owners and whether we're dealing with the association directly or working for a general contractor, sometimes there's an owner's rep or a project manager involved. So when we have these meetings we like to give at least two weeks notice to unit owners so that they can prepare for our arrival. The communication is huge. The second biggest piece is access getting into someone's home. So they may be under the weather, they may just not want to cooperate with the association.
Speaker 1:I was going to say let's be honest, Maybe they're just angry and they don't want to give you access. Maybe it's not a legitimate excuse, but they're just not down with this project.
Speaker 2:They're not down with it. They don't want to pay for it, so they're going to be difficult.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So the access is huge. The communication, the staging areas as you mentioned, right windows and doors typically get delivered to a job site. So are we working at a condominium association on the beach in Sunny Isles, whereby there's very little parking? Where do we stage? Do we have enough space? Or maybe we're working in a garden style condominium association where there's tons of parking and we can put trailers and garbage dumpsters. So all of those things are very important and the reason we try to give people as much notification as possible is because we're working inside someone's home, so there's lots of different personal belongings that need to be moved out of the way. We have a job to do, so we're going to come in and do our job, but we like to try to tell the unit owners be as proactive as possible, because things do happen. It's construction and things. Certain things can't be replaced.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, which is why we also tell owners or residents and I want to get into that in a second move everything away, a certain amount of feet away from the windows.
Speaker 1:I did have a community where it was a renter and the renter didn't disregard all of the communications, didn't move and it was a furnished unit, didn't remove or relocate any of the owner's property and there was damage. I want to talk about renters for a second, because I find that that's a challenge in communities where you have a high percentage of rentals, first of all, where you have a high percentage of rentals first of all, the communication may not trickle down from the owners to their renters. But even if it does, there's sometimes a sense amongst the renters which is I paid for this unit I didn't pay to have, I can't go out on my balcony, I'm surrounded by construction, I can't look out. It's an issue now that I would tell people who are renting their units to make sure that there's reasonable language in their leases or their addenda that says this unit may be subject at some point throughout the term of your lease to maintenance or repair projects, especially long-term leases. It's going to happen.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. We're working on a condominium association high-rise condominium right now in Sunny Isles Beach and it is 95% Airbnb the building. So you have people coming and going on a daily basis, you have monthly rentals and that is difficult because I'll give you one example when you talk about being proactive in a unit, we try to tell the association something like a window covering, a blind, a curtain that should be taken down before a window or door contractor enters the apartment. And there's a reason for it. The reason is not because we're lazy, the reason is is because they're old, they're damaged probably, and then the contractor is going to be responsible to replace them, even if they didn't break them. So we tell them to take them down.
Speaker 2:Now we come into a unit here in this 95% Airbnb building and the blinds are still up. We have no choice. We have to take them down in order to do our job. Well, what happens? The new window frame is much wider than the old window frame, so the blinds aren't going to go back in the position that they were in before we got there. So the blinds aren't going to go back in the position that they were in before we got there. Now this is a blackout shade, let's say, well, now we put the blinds back where they can go, not in the same spot. Day goes by, renter calls the unit owner and says hey, I'm paying all this money to rent this unit from you for this nice long holiday weekend. At 530 in the morning it is so bright in this unit I can't sleep.
Speaker 1:I knew where you were going with that Yep.
Speaker 2:So it's a challenge and we try to exclude things like that with good people like you, who see both from the contractor side as well as the owner side, because there are issues and some of them you can't deal with. But yeah, dealing in a rental building real difficult, real difficult.
Speaker 1:And part of contributing to the problem, ben, is the fact that a lot of the investor owners they're not thinking about the fact that these maintenance and repair projects are necessity. Okay, it does eat into in their minds their return on investment, because they're also having to pay the special assessments to fund these projects. But again, life safety comes first and I think it's important for people who are looking to invest in condo and cooperative units or single family homes as an investment property that they have to take into account that from time to time there's going to be inconveniences, particularly in a multifamily building.
Speaker 2:Sure, same building. This has been two years in the making, and it's primarily because there's a group of people that do not want this to happen, and the excuse is always let's wait a few months, it's high season, we're going to lose out on renters' income. And then a few months go by and the scope changes. Well, the scope now includes additional concrete work. Well, it's additional money. Now they have to revisit the budget, and now we're at the point where it's okay, let's move forward. Well, if we move forward now, then the windows are going to come in in December and that's our busy season. We don't want to do it during Christmas, and all the excuses that you can possibly make are very valid and understood in a building that has a lot of rentals. However, at the end of the day, you can tell the audience better than anyone that there's a fiduciary responsibility on the board to maintain the safety of the people in that building.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you took the words right out of my mouth. At the end of the day, the board members have to understand, even if they are renting out their units on a short-term or long-term basis, that they have a fiduciary duty. And having a fiduciary duty and serving as a fiduciary exposes them to potential legal liability if they breach that duty. And, in a nutshell, that duty is putting the interest of the membership, particularly when it comes to life safety issues, ahead of their own financial issues. So, very well said, took the words right out of my mouth. Let's say you're in the midst of a project. Okay, you're installing. Now a storm is coming. What do you do? You've got some windows, I would assume, that are literally opened in the midst of it. You've got staging and equipment everywhere. How quickly do you mobilize to deal with the storm that's looming?
Speaker 2:So that's a really good question and I'm glad you asked. I have an example that I can give you. But what you really need to do is keep an eye on what's going on. For example, right now there's something brewing and it may impact the west coast of Florida later this week and it was really quick and it's going to strengthen really fast over the warm water. So you might not have a lot of time, but in the event that you do, you need to demobilize a project, whether it's concrete restoration or windows, doors, paint, stucco. Any exterior project that has equipment that's hanging from the roof of the building or installed on the side of the building needs to be demobilized and put away.
Speaker 2:Material left on a job site Whose responsibility is that? So in the contract it'll say well, the material belongs to unit owner or it belongs to the contractor, whatever it may be, but whose responsibility is it to make sure that it's safe? The example I use and you brought up Hurricane Ian earlier Hurricane Ian we had the opportunity to start installing two towers on Naples Beach about six weeks before the hurricane. No one even knew there was going to be a hurricane. And we have two 45-foot semi-trailers in a parking lot on Naples Beach with $300,000 or $400,000 worth of material between the two of them.
Speaker 2:On site Hear about a storm approaching. We're working for a GC. The general contractor says hey, what are you going to do? How are you going to hunker down? This is going to be a big one. What do we do?
Speaker 2:In our eyes it was the shipping containers weigh 30,000 tons. They're not going to go anywhere and get blown away. The swing stages will come down off the side of the building. The pallets of concrete are heavy. They're not going to get blown away. Well, hurricane comes. Nobody knew there was going to be a storm surge of 12 feet of water above grade. It picked up 30,000 ton containers and made them float down the street a mile with hundreds of thousands of dollars of material in them. So fortunately, we were working with good association members and great attorneys, and all of that was understood before the storm came. So the answer to the question in a nutshell is is you really need to contact your attorney, contact your insurance company and understand all the liabilities that are associated with what's going to happen if, and plan in advance? It's really, really important to plan for these types of major events. This was extreme. This is out of the ordinary once in a hundred years, but it happened and it can happen again. It's only a matter of time.
Speaker 1:I mean, we're seeing it with the erratic weather patterns. Ben, I've had numerous guests on the podcast talking about this issue and what we're likely to see in the future. Assuming that you had a unit that was open, okay, at the time there's an announcement, a hurricane warning. Let's say, how quickly can you get that impact glass installed, or would you need to put up some other kind of temporary barrier?
Speaker 2:Yeah, worst case scenario. The temporary barrier is plywood. That's worst case. That gets put, you know, installed on the face of the building, put some foam around it to fill any voids and caulk it in real good, and that's worst case scenario. Chances are there is enough material on site to be able to even pull for, say, we were working on the 04 stack and we ran out of windows on the 04 stack, but the 07 stack has the same size windows. We were able to pull from there to close something up. Chances are you can close up same day. If you have to work late in the day, if you have to work weekends, whatever you got to do to close something up and, most importantly, if you have to work weekends, whatever you got to do to close something up and, most importantly, seal it with good waterproofing, with good caulking, because water is the enemy on this and we're trying to keep the enemy out.
Speaker 1:How long does that take to cure the sealant and the caulking?
Speaker 2:I would say it should take a good at least 24 hours, maybe 48 hours, to really cure. At least 24 hours, maybe 48 hours to really cure. And they're all going to be different but as you know, you'll see on the data sheets cure time but as a standard minimum of 24 hours. The other thing to I'm glad you brought this up. The other thing to remember is you can't just scramble to put caulking on a wet surface.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:That's not going to stick, so that surface needs to be cleaned properly and then the caulking needs to be applied so that it can set up and do its job.
Speaker 1:Well, what about the humidity too, which creates very moist conditions? I would assume again I'm a lay person. I'm assuming it's easier to do this in the drier months in Florida as opposed to the summer months.
Speaker 2:It is, and it goes though back into season, where many people are here to enjoy season and don't want construction going on during season. I get it, but you're talking about one season.
Speaker 1:It's not like you're doing this every single season. I mean I totally get balancing the equities between convenience, but again, life safety is always going to trump, you know, aesthetic concerns and enjoyment and entertainment.
Speaker 2:And when it comes to forget windows and doors for a minute, when it comes to restoration project, you could be I'm sure you've seen on your projects concrete restoration project could go on for years, right? So you know there's no good time other than the time it's got to happen and the excuse to punt we'll use that as the verbiage is not a good excuse anymore, that good excuse anymore, and you know that comes into everything and anything associated with the safety and the structure of a property.
Speaker 1:You know, the good news with hurricanes, if there is any good news is at least we do have advance notice so you can decide. You know you're looking at the storm and you're saying we're not going to open up any more units, right, unlike an earthquake, unlike a tornado, where you don't know this really should be something. I imagine. You keep your eye on, your crew keeps its eye on it, and you're not proceeding if it looks like a storm is heading this way and a warning has been issued.
Speaker 2:That's absolutely correct and I'll add to that why there's so many benefits of impact windows and doors, but one of them specifically is that it's all year round hurricane protection as opposed to shutters, for example, building maintenance people staff. They don't need to go around preparing units for a storm in the event of a storm, if impact windows and doors are there. If shutters are there, then they need to go around and have them closed, make sure that they're locked and move on to the next one. That's extremely time consuming as opposed to them preparing the building, the common areas, the landscaping, the pool area all of those other things for a storm.
Speaker 1:It's a passive form of protection.
Speaker 2:It's there. That's it. And of course there's so many other benefits and we can get into them. You know noise reduction and heat reduction and insurance savings and forced entry ground level no one can break into your home. There's so many different ancillary benefits, but the number one being that it's all year round protection and these properties can really use that and put their staff up to more important safety things than to go around and close shutters for unit owners that left for hurricane season, or maybe even left in a hurry because there was a storm coming and forgot to close their shutters.
Speaker 1:You know it's funny. We're taping this and I'm in my office. I'm in a high rise and, believe it or not, this is not impact glass, because I can tap on it and see that this is not impact glass and I can hear the construction going on next door. I can hear it up here and I'm on the 17th floor of this building. So I do want to ask you about that, about the ancillary benefits in a few minutes. But before we move on, I want to talk about any ancillary costs of installing impact windows and sliding glass doors in older buildings and we know there's a lot of them, ben, where, let's say, they have not yet done concrete restoration work, so they've got older, porous concrete. You've now got these much heavier impact windows, I would imagine, and heavier frames. What are the costs associated with that?
Speaker 2:Great question. So, yes, the frames are bigger, the glass is heavier. Sometimes it's a question of can the balconies support the new sliding glass door assemblies that are heavier and how does that trickle down? If you're on the 10th floor, how does that trickle down, all that weight as you get lower and lower? So an engineer will come out and check all of that out and do load calculations and such.
Speaker 2:But there are lots of different systems in the marketplace and there are lots of different substrates in the world. One common substrate is concrete. So you have concrete. You have a typical window that has anchors for the top and bottom and for the left and right, which we call the jams to support this window or door being installed into this existing opening.
Speaker 2:Some buildings have hollow concrete concrete block in the sides. Well, not every window or door is tested to go into a hollow cell. So what does that mean? That means that during the concrete restoration project, or even during a window and door project, those cells need to be what's called poured solid putting rebar in, pouring them, stuccoing the outside, drywalling the inside, painting huge cost and engineering to do all of that. There are systems that are designed that don't require those jam or those side anchors, so now we don't need to tamper with those hollow blocks whatsoever. An example there's a property in downtown Miami, right across from the arena that we just finished, and the building is made out of Ephus. What Ephus is? For those that don't know, ephus is foam, styrofoam.
Speaker 1:Wait, wait, wait. The building's made out of foam. Efis is foam styrofoam. Wait, wait, wait. The building's made out of foam.
Speaker 2:The building walls are all made out of foam. The floors, from top to bottom, are made out of concrete. So imagine taking an impact window or door and screwing it into a foam wall. What kind of support is it going to have? Zero? Well, what kind of support is it going to have? Zero? So certain manufacturers have these systems of which we use that are called anchorless jams, meaning no screws in the sides, where all of the screws are in the top and the bottom, with different reinforcements in the frame, so that the top and bottom can take all the load and we don't have to tamper with the sides at all. So there are huge costs associated with these types of projects. However, there are different products that may cost a little bit more than a huge concrete project, which would require strengthening the building to support a common window or door, as opposed to, maybe, a window or door that was designed for this type of building.
Speaker 1:Are you finding that a lot of these older associations, these older buildings, are combining these projects? They're doing concrete restoration. At the same time, they're going ahead and hardening the windows and doors at?
Speaker 2:the same time they're going ahead and hardening the windows and doors. Yes, it's very common for them to be done. It makes sense. When an old window or door gets removed, there's quite a bit of stucco work that gets done. To the exterior, there is drywall work. When an old sliding glass door comes out of a balcony, there may be rebar exposed, there may be post-tension cables that are exposed.
Speaker 2:All of that stuff needs to be addressed. So, assuming there is no restoration project going on and we come to an opening and take out a sliding glass door and there's all this rebar that's exposed and bad, delaminated stucco and post tension that's rusted, what happens? Well, we got to shut down the project and tell the unit owner and then the manager or maybe even the engineer hey, we got a problem here. So now we're stuck with putting up plywood. Well, how long does that plywood have to sit in that opening until they can bring a concrete restoration company out there to do the repair? So yes, if it can be done in conjunction with, it will be done a lot more efficiently.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that totally makes sense. Let's talk about maintenance of these windows, maintenance of impact glass in the frames versus the maintenance requirements for the regular non-impact glass we see.
Speaker 2:All right. So when we talk about maintenance, this can go. We can have a whole podcast on maintenance and whose responsibility the maintenance is. Oh yeah, as far as maintenance on impact windows and doors, very simple. Every manufacturer is going to have their maintenance package that is going to need to be addressed in order for them, for a unit owner or a building, to exercise a warranty in the event that they need to. Many of them are the same Normal, very simple Warm water. Very simple Warm water, soap and a sponge. That's the normal maintenance. Having the frames on the exterior wiped down If you don't live down the frames with some soap and water, simply.
Speaker 2:Some people are under the impression that their sliding glass doors need WD-40 or grease to make them roll better. Terrible, Don't do it. If any lubrication is sprayed, it should be a silicone spray so that the sand and salt don't stick to it. And really it's really simple, Normal maintenance. You have sliding glass doors or you have windows that slide left and right, that have a tank or a frame on the bottom. Vacuum it out with a dust buster, with a shop vac. Get all the sand and debris out of the track on a regular basis. Take some warm water with some soap suds, swish it through the track. It'll drain out.
Speaker 2:Very important these systems today are designed to take in water with drainage slash weep holes within the framing structure. Those drains and those weep holes need to be clear in order for the water to drain out at a certain rate that it's designed to drain out at. So people forget that it's no different than a car that needs an oil change. These windows and doors need to be used. People locally, you and I. It's so warm. When am I ever going to open and close my windows? Well, when you do want to open and close them and they lift up and down and they have balance rods or springs. You want it to stay up and not fall straight down and maybe break the glass or even hurt somebody by doing so. And in order for that to function properly, they need to be used. So, as simple as it sounds, use the systems.
Speaker 1:That is such great advice. When you first started saying water and soap and clean, I'm thinking where is he going with this? Is this just clean? He's just a clean freak. He just wants the window. But what you're saying is, because some people are looking at it like I can live with dirty windows. Okay, I'm not that fussy. I can live with dirty windows. Okay, I'm not that fussy Not me. I'm cleaning windows all the time. But this is not just about an aesthetic that you want to have. It's actually about the functionality and maintenance of the product.
Speaker 2:From what you're telling me, that's correct, and manufacturers will be sticklers in the event of a warranty claim. In the event of a warranty claim, they may come out and suggest oh, our maintenance and warranty booklet that we gave to the installer suggests that you need to keep a logbook of all of the maintenance that was done on your windows and doors on an annual basis. Because if you didn't do maintenance, whatever it may be, let's say twice a year Well, you didn't take care of the product, so that voids your warranty.
Speaker 1:Wow, it also impacts your insurance claim if the product fails. Because a lot of insurance companies they use the argument that this is not damage solely related to the storm, it's failure to maintain. So this becomes a vicious cycle to maintain.
Speaker 2:So this becomes a vicious cycle. And I'll give you a little trick too, on exterior door handles. Whether it be a sliding door, whether it be a swing door, any exterior door handle. A little trick of the trade is you take some turtle wax that's used to wax a car or a boat, or some petroleum jelly and you coat the door handle with it. This way, once every couple of weeks you go outside, take a rag, microfiber rag you wipe the lubrication off of the door handle and all of the salt that's going to stick to the handle and that's going to corrode first, is now coming off with the turtle wax because it's stuck to the turtle wax instead of stuck the door handle on, the paint finish itself. So that's a little trick.
Speaker 1:This is why I love this podcast. I've learned so much about stuff that and our listeners do too. I mean this is some common sense stuff, but I don't know how often associations are getting window cleaners out there to clean. You just made for impact glass is protected, but some documents actually say that the owners are responsible to maintain and repair and replace their windows and doors. Now, this does not mean in the aftermath of a storm and I often have to explain this to clients that there's a difference between the regular, ordinary maintenance, repair and replacement obligations and what the association is obligated to do by law in the aftermath of a casualty. But let's say regular maintenance and let's say we're talking about a high-rise. One of the things I like to talk to my clients about is, first of all, how easy is it for Mrs Smith to get her windows maintained, especially if we're not talking about on a balcony, if she's on the 10th floor?
Speaker 2:maintained, especially if we're not talking about on a balcony on the 10th floor. Sure, it takes a male or a female and what we would call a boson chair to hang from the roof and come in and clean the windows from the exterior, and there's a cost associated with it, of course.
Speaker 1:And if the owner doesn't do this because it's a daunting task. Because I'm on the 10th floor and I've called a few people and they're like lady, we can't clean your windows on the 10th floor. Again, I know a lot of associations, ben, who are happy when they know that their documents put that obligation on the owners. But the flip side of that is the maintenance may go unheated for years, well beyond when it should, and that's going to impact everybody if those windows are no longer watertight.
Speaker 2:That's exactly correct and that also brings up a good point, which is the male or female on the 10th floor isn't maintaining their systems, but the male or female on the the ninth floor has done great maintenance to theirs and their windows have never leaked. What happens when water comes in on the 10th floor and trickles down to the ninth floor, to the unit owner who says my windows are perfect, I maintain them, I get them washed, I get them re-caulked. The guy or gal upstairs doesn't. So now, whose responsibility is it to fix Mrs or Mr Jones's apartment on the ninth floor?
Speaker 1:So again I want to say I never give direct legal advice but generally speaking, the person on the lower floor is experiencing a casualty Association in Florida. We had a lot of people listening outside of Florida, but in Florida the law is that in a condominium the association's responsible to replace damaged drywall and baseboard if the units were constructed with baseboards. So now they've got to deal with all the other, the lower damage. Perhaps they have the option to go against the person for a negligence claim who failed to maintain it. But overall, I think the cleanest way, especially when you're dealing with multifamily building with vertical housing, is for the association to oversee the maintenance, because it'll get done, it'll be uniform and you don't have to chase people for the maintenance. And so, to my mind, that also sets us up. For I want to talk to you about insurance, you know. Do you know of any credits? I hear it all the time about the mitigation credits for hardening the building. Can you talk to us about buildings that have hardened their infrastructure by installing impact glass?
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 2:So what I could tell you, first and foremost, is that there are a handful of carriers that will refuse to even quote buildings if they don't have mitigation credits.
Speaker 2:So that's first and foremost, is that there are a handful of carriers that will refuse to even quote buildings if they don't have mitigation credits. So that's first and foremost With mitigation credits, you will have lots of doors that are open for you, so you will have more options which can lead to greater benefits or lower premium. I can tell you that Citizens specifically, which is a Florida insurance company Citizens will give up to 65% of a premium credit if all windows and doors are Hurricane Code compliant and all is the answer. There may be a small little window in common area bathroom that the association says we don't need to do that. That's part of the whole. So up to 65% of a premium credit from citizens. I can tell you that all other carriers are offering on average of somewhere between 25 and 35% premium credit. But again, it's important to note that having these mitigation credits and having buildings that are compliant opens the doors for other carriers to be interested in insuring your property.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean listen, we've also it's been kind of a running theme on the podcast talking about the insurance crisis here in Florida. But look, there's insurance crises throughout the country, as we've seen more erratic weather patterns, wildfires, mudslides, you name it. There's been earthquakes. There's been problems across the country in terms of being able to obtain affordable insurance coverage. I wonder, though, if you've got all the impact glass in but you've got an old roof. I would assume that they kind of go hand in hand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. You know. You'll have your mitigation inspection done and one of the boxes that gets checked is for a roof and the age of the roof. And another box that gets checked is all glazed openings. All glazed openings or fenestration products are windows and doors.
Speaker 2:Just to also add to that, when it comes to insurance, it is common now that insurance companies are requiring that impact resistant windows and doors be all large missile impact rated.
Speaker 2:There are large missile impact rated windows and doors that are required to be used on 30 feet and below of grade. So first floor, second floor, third floor, maybe even fourth floor, so 30 feet from street level and up need to. From the ground level, up to 30 feet are required to be large missile impact rated. Anything above 30 feet, 31 feet and above can be small missile impact rated per the building code. That will save you some pennies here or there in the grand scheme of a large window and door replacement project. However, insurance companies today are suggesting you will not get your credit unless everything is large missile impact rated. So my suggestion is is for each and every individual listening to this podcast that may be thinking about doing something like this, no matter what type of project it is windows, doors, roof that whatever is being proposed for use be put past the insurance company first to understand if and when they'll be entitled to any type of savings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great suggestion, because if you're doing this in part for the impact it's going to have on your insurance premium, why wouldn't you check ahead of time to figure out what the impact is going to be on your insurance premium? What constitutes a large missile? What?
Speaker 2:kind of object, how big? That's a really good question. I don't know that I was ever asked that before.
Speaker 1:I was talking a two by four. Are we talking yeah?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the way that the systems are tested is with the use of a two by four that gets shot out of a cannon at 170 or 175 miles per hour. So I'm going to use that as a large missile. And I think you know this board of building code compliance. I don't know how they came up with 30 feet, but the suggestion is is that 30 feet and below you have a greater chance of something impacting the glass than you do at 31 feet and above, and I see these again.
Speaker 2:I'll go back to this building on Hollywood beach, 16 floor. You know they had shutters. What's flying around up there, unless it's something that's getting ripped off of a building, a neighboring building, and it's going to, you know, hit your windows out of anything. My my thought is is there's a greater chance of those windows and doors getting ripped out of the opening or blown in than there is of something hitting it. So why would we have shutters up that high? And it's mind-boggling now that there is a cost difference in shutters than there is in impact glass. But you're getting what you pay for. You're getting zero of the of the residence.
Speaker 1:I did have a building where a vase at a neighboring building's unit blew off and blew through another unit in the neighboring building. As we see more density in construction, I guess it could have a similar impact. If that other building has not prepared, has not had their owners or residents remove items from their balconies, I would venture to say that those items could become airborne missiles.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I don't want to steer anybody listening to this podcast away from being proactive and protecting their building and or unit, whether it be with shutters or impact windows. By any means, Be proactive and do something.
Speaker 1:But what I am suggesting is that there are better ways to do it than others. So you know, because you've been in this industry, the community association industry, for quite a while, as have I, that a lot boils down to what Pricing and they'll look at these windows and doors and say this is expense, this is an expensive investment. But how do you help people understand and you touched on it a few minutes ago about the long-term savings? You know, you've got insurance premium, the mitigation credits. What about increased energy efficiency? Sure.
Speaker 2:Energy efficiency. You know you're going to see a savings. It's not huge but you will see a savings, you'll see it. You know common areas where the association is responsible for paying that FPL bill or whomever the power company is. Here I know we're speaking to people outside of the Florida area. So from a common area standpoint, you're going to see a nice savings. The unit owner in these larger units they may have pretty high FPL bills because they are cooling a large space. So you'll see $25, $50.
Speaker 2:I don't think that you're going to see a tremendous savings when it comes to energy. But when we talk about energy, yes, you're going to see that your air conditionings aren't going to be running as often, so that's creating longevity on those units and you're not replacing those as frequently. You are saving money, of course, on your energy with impact glass. Note that they are 99% UV resistant. Uv has to do with discoloration of furniture and paintings and carpets and rugs and all of that stuff. So impact glass is 99% UV resistant. Your energy savings, along with your insurance savings, at some point these systems are going to start paying for themselves.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking about crime prevention too. You mentioned ground floor, but in a lot of the older buildings they have catwalks where people can walk along those catwalks and you've got somebody right outside your window. Again, those type of older buildings do have a lot of older people on fixed incomes living in them. They may have moved in in their 40s and 50ies and they've stayed there now and they're in their eighties or nineties. I imagine again, it would be expensive, but it has this other impact on potentially crime.
Speaker 2:Totally so, if you can remember I know you or I aren't old enough to remember this, but we are not a a. You know, in these old TV shows and movies when people used to steal car stereos, right, um, they would always break in the cars through the side windows. They'd never break in through the front and if you, you know, had a baseball bat and you beat on the front window, you'd never could get in to steal that car stereo. You always go through the side. That's impact glass, that front window of a car. So from a forced entry standpoint they prevent a lot of crime.
Speaker 2:We've seen in high net worth demographic HOA communities that have been hit up by bad guys or bad girls. They try to get into someone's home through the glass and they sit there and realize they're never getting through that. So they move on to the next one. Those are the professionals, the sleazeball kids that are out there trying to make their buddy laugh by breaking someone's glass. They're going to sit there and beat on it as long as they can until the cops show up or until they hear the sirens. But from a professional standpoint, that's on a mission. They know they're trying to get inside because they know there's something good inside the second, that they figure out it's impact glass, they're on to the next one. They know that they're not going to have enough time to do what they need to do before the police show up.
Speaker 1:I had a famous athlete in one of my HOAs in Western Broward County. It was well known that he lived in this community and, yeah, a group of teens tried to break in and use the baseball bat and, yeah, could not get through, caught on camera. It was actually a good end to the story. He was not impacted, but, to your point, that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they're a great deterrent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so are you seeing any? First of all, are you seeing an increased demand, Ben, over the last couple of years for impact glass?
Speaker 2:Lots of demand, lots of bidding, lots of being a resource to community association managers and the boards of directors.
Speaker 2:With all of the new legislation around the surf side, devastation buildings are being put up against the wall to do certain things in a timely manner and I'm sure you've had multiple podcasts about this so we won't get into it. But because of it, lots of bidding, lots of trying to understand what it's going to cost, how long it's going to take, how it's going to impact the residents, not only because of Surfside but also older buildings trying to modernize how do we keep up with the neighbor who now has a 60-story modern building and our building is 12 stories. That hasn't done anything to increase the value of the units. So modernizing, making it more appealing for people to buy units there or to invest into units there. So anything from these milestone inspections and the SERS and the recommendations by the engineers or architects to insurance companies demanding that they're going to raise their rates if they don't do certain hurricane code projects and the modernization piece, it's been extremely active and interesting seeing that it's no longer yeah, next year, yeah, maybe the year after. It's now.
Speaker 1:You mentioned the building code. It changes every three years. Florida adopts a new version, but that's the minimum of what's required. I imagine in your industry. There's always companies out there that are trying to do better. There's trends, there's new technology, new materials. What are you seeing? I also assume that you go around to different trade shows and see what's out. So what's on the horizon?
Speaker 2:So unfortunately, I could tell you that it's not that exciting in the window and door world with related to impact windows and doors. And again, impact windows and doors. It's not that exciting because there's not a lot of deviating from having impact glass.
Speaker 2:Two pieces of glass with the film in the middle, if it's not hurricane glass. We go to these trade shows all the time. There's some really cool stuff out there for people listening that are outside of the South Florida area. Lots of really cool stuff from glass becoming privacy, glass with the flip of a switch, glass becoming more energy efficient, with different coatings that can be used, self-cleaning glass. You know, forget the old window washer, but when natural rain hits the glass, it washes it. Um, decorative glass. There are cool things out there. Unfortunately, in the impact world, there's nothing really that cool on the horizon other than being innovative from an energy efficiency standpoint, maybe from a privacy standpoint, that in the glass, in the frames, manufacturers are being innovative. They want this architectural look. Maybe they have slimmer profile frames, maybe they have different color options.
Speaker 1:But I wish I had better news for you that there's no, I love all those architectural home shows and I, like I love what you said about the privacy glass and the self-cleaning glass, so we need to meld those with the impact glass, and then we've got it. We've got it all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean. Listen, listen, you said it best earlier. You know what. What are people thinking about? They're thinking about what it costs.
Speaker 2:So the more bells and whistles that you can, you can put on these impact products, the more they cost. And that may be why manufacturers just stick with the basics and say, okay, the building code is going to change, we got to make sure our product meets the structural building code and maybe even the energy code, but other than that, we're not going to really do anything too crazy around the country or the world. There are technologies out there of which the glass creates electricity power that will send power back to the building or your home or your panel. I'm not an electrician so I really can't tell you exactly how it works, but think of it as little, tiny, tiny wires that you can't even see in the glass that are acting like solar panels and they're absorbing natural light sun to create power. So that's something really cool that's out there not really here in South Florida, but for those of you listening outside of South Florida, really cool stuff.
Speaker 1:That is really cool. You have given me so much to think about, even for my clients, but also for my personal residents. Ben, where can people find you?
Speaker 2:Well again, my name is Ben Friedman. I'm the president and owner of City Quiet Windows and Doors. My email address is my name, ben B-E-N at City C-I-T-I quiet. Q-u-i-e-t abbreviation for Florida, flcom. Ben at cityquietflcom, our website, cityquiethurricanewindowscom. You can find me by-.
Speaker 1:Well, we can find you out and about in South Florida. I can tell people this Ben has the best parties, he's everywhere.
Speaker 2:You can find me pretty much anywhere Instagram. Call Donna, she knows where to find me.
Speaker 1:Thanks, Ben, for joining us.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining us today. Don't forget to follow and rate us on your favorite podcast platform, or visit TakeItToTheBoardcom for more ways to connect.