Take It To The Board with Donna DiMaggio Berger
Take It To The Board with Donna DiMaggio Berger
Important Insights from Florida's Former Condominium Ombudsman
Our last episode of Take It To The Board involved a discussion with an owner in a luxury high-rise who had become disenchanted with some of the governance issues in his community. Today's episode takes us further on that path as host Donna DiMaggio Berger sits down with Spencer Hennings, who brings firsthand knowledge as Florida’s former Condominium Ombudsman about the types of owner complaints he saw time and again while serving in that role. Appointed by Governor Ron DeSantis in 2020, Spencer served in this critical role until 2023, resolving thousands of condominium disputes, acting as the state’s liaison during the Miami-Dade Surfside condo collapse, and helping to draft impactful condominium legislation at both local and state levels.
During their conversation, Spencer shares how he transformed the ombudsman’s office into a more accessible resource for Floridians and reflects on his crucial involvement during and after the Surfside tragedy. Together, Donna and Spencer explore the potential establishment of a state ombudsman for Homeowners Associations (HOAs), discussing the potential complexities of such a role and the importance of fair and balanced representation.
Spencer also addresses the common misconception that the ombudsman’s office exclusively advocates for unit owners, emphasizing the critical need for impartiality. The discussion further examines the evolving challenges in community association management, particularly in the wake of disasters, outdated processes, and the increasing trend of condo terminations in vulnerable areas like Florida.
As they wrap up, Spencer reflects on the emotional toll of working in the Ombudsman's Office and offers candid advice for those who may follow in his footsteps, leaving listeners with a deeper understanding of the challenges and rewards of this vital oversight role.
This episode covers everything from legislative hurdles to the personal journey of navigating public service in Florida’s complex association landscape, and is one you don’t want to miss!.
Conversation Highlights Include:
- What inspired Spencer to pursue the role of Condominium Ombudsman
- The most common complaints from condo owners
- Balancing the interests of owners, board members and other stakeholders
- Common misconceptions about the role of the Condominium Ombudsman
- Spencer’s advice to every condo owner and every board member
- Do Florida HOAs need their own Ombudsman?
Related Links:
- Online Class: Dealing with Difficult People
- Article: Implementing Condominium Restrictions
- Podcast: Alternative Dispute Resolution with Jeffrey Streitfeld, Mediator
Hi everyone, I'm attorney Donna DiMaggio-Berger, and this is Take it to the Board, where we speak condo and HOA.
Speaker 1:Today, we're taking a closer look at one of the most unique and important roles in Florida's condominium landscape the condominium ombudsman. My guest is someone who knows firsthand what it's like to be the bridge between condo owners boards and the state Florida's former condominium ombudsman, spencer Hennings. In 2020, spencer was appointed by Governor DeSantis to serve as Florida's condominium ombudsman. From 2020 to 2023, he resolved thousands of issues in condominium associations, served as the state's liaison to those affected by the Miami-Dade Surfside condo collapse and helped draft new condominium legislation at the local and state levels. Spencer left the ombudsman's office in 2023 and is now a member of the real estate practice group at Schutzen Bowen in Fort Lauderdale, and he was just named vice president of the Miami Beach Bar Association. I'm excited to have the opportunity to talk to Spencer about the challenges, lessons and surprises he learned during his tenure as Florida's condominium ombudsman and get his take on the future of the condominium lifestyle. So, spencer, welcome to Take it to the Board.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me, Donna.
Speaker 1:You were very young when you took on the role of condominium ombudsman. What inspired you to like seek out that role?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was right before my 28th birthday. You know it's not a role that I was really seeking out, it sort of found me. At the time the secretary of the DVPR was named Halsey Beshears. He did a great job as the secretary of DVPR and when he was appointed by the governor he started getting all these condo complaints and there was no ombudsman at the time. So he was looking for a way that the state could do better to help our condo complaints and there was no ombudsman at the time. So he was looking for a way that the state could do better to help our condo owners and especially these people that were sending him letters every day complaining about things happening in their condo association. So he, being up in Tallahassee, thought I think I need to hire someone down in South Florida where a lot of these complaints are coming from and all the condos are concentrated. So he started this statewide search and a professional contact of mine knew him and recommended me to him and when I heard about the job and I read the statute that describes what the duties are, I kind of felt that I was born for this role.
Speaker 2:So I worked really hard to convince Halsey Beshears, who's the secretary that I was the right guy and at the time he couldn't just hire me because the statute required that the governor appointed the ombudsman. So once he signed off on me, he had to then present me to the governor's office and that took about a year of just going back and forth to Tallahassee and meeting with the governor's chief of staff as a 27-year-old lawyer and eventually. Eventually COVID hit also and that, you know, really threw a wrench in things. That's why it took so long and it almost fell apart. But right before my 28th birthday the appointment came through and it was an absolute roller coaster, but it was. You know, I had a great time with that role and I'm just so thankful to have had that opportunity.
Speaker 2:At that point you're 27 years old, had you lived in a condominium up until that point, or a homeowners association. I lived in condos, yeah.
Speaker 1:Now, had you ever served on a board?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Had you ever gone to a board meeting?
Speaker 2:Yes, I didn't know what was happening at the board meeting Didn't really make sense to me. But yeah, I mean I had looked at a set of condominium documents before and I knew loosely how condominiums worked because I was a real estate lawyer and I had taken a class by Bill Sklar at the University of Miami Law School, who is a great, great condominium lawyer. That's a mutual friend of ours and I learned a little bit about condos, but it was a real educational experience. I'll tell you that.
Speaker 1:I was going to say three years. Okay, I'm guessing you didn't really know what you were getting yourself fully into at that point.
Speaker 2:I had no idea what I was getting myself into and it ended up being amazing and super rewarding. But I just didn't know what to expect and I think part of that is because my predecessors that were the former ombudsman or buds people. They were not as visible. I don't think they. They didn't really do podcasts even like this Right. Like future ombudsman or ombuds, people are going to be able to listen to this podcast and understand what the office is about and what I did with the office. But this didn't exist for me when I was going through that process. So there really was no example to go off of and that was kind of cool because it was a blank slate, but yeah, there was not much of an example to go off of that I could find.
Speaker 1:And we've had quite a gap in time between your departure and we're taping today, in early 2025. You're right, the ombudsman's office was kind of shrouded in a little bit of mystery. I think people didn't really understand. What do they do? Do they have an enforcement arm? Are they there to educate? How did most people, spencer, contact you? Was it calling? Was it showing up when you went out to events? Was it emailing you? What were most of the communication channels for you to hear from people out in condo land?
Speaker 2:So there was a lot of calls and a lot of emails, but throughout those three years one of my main goals was to make the office as visible as possible and I think I was probably unique as a government worker saying that I want as as visible as possible, and I think I was probably unique as a government worker saying that I want as much work as possible.
Speaker 1:When you were young, so you still had a lot of energy.
Speaker 2:Right, I had a lot of energy exactly. So, yeah, I would go to every expo I could. I would go to the condo elections personally and I knew that the more people that knew about the office, the more people that we could help, the better it was going to look for the state, for my office, for the DBPR, and then I thought that's really the key to the legislature. You know, giving us more employees, give us more funding, and then that will just be this like exponential growth of positivity for the office. So making the office as visible as possible was a big goal of mine and the numbers really doubled and tripled and quadrupled throughout those three years.
Speaker 1:What's your budget when you first started?
Speaker 2:I believe it was around half a million dollars. Yeah, around half a million dollars, I believe.
Speaker 1:And how many staff?
Speaker 2:at that point would you say so we had seven full-time staff members, but we also had the election monitor program, and those people that served as election monitors throughout the state were not employees, they were independent contractors and we'd have anywhere between 20 to 30 of those at a time. So generally I was overseeing 25 to 30 people.
Speaker 1:But those election monitors were not paid by the state, they were paid by the associations that were being. These elections were being monitored, correct.
Speaker 2:Exactly so. That's what Florida law provides is that, when enough unit owners send a petition to the ombudsman's office saying, hey, we want the state to come in and monitor the election for my condo this year, the association is then required to pay for that service to the person that the ombudsman appoints.
Speaker 1:So we've got a lot of people listening all over. Can you explain why the state of Florida needed to have a process whereby elections could be monitored by an outside party?
Speaker 2:Well, I think that condo elections and the ability to vote for the board and have a fair election is like the most sacred right for condo owners. So making sure that those happen correctly the first time go around is going to save everyone headaches, time, money, energy. So that was what the legislature decided.
Speaker 2:One of the roles of the ombudsman's office was going to be to you know, travel around and appoint people to go out and conduct these elections, and it was really really effective. I mean, there were so many times where we had great results where unit owners would come up to me after after the election and they would say you know, I never thought we were having fair elections. I always thought something sketchy was happening behind the scenes. And this is, you know, the first year I heard about the ombudsman's office, and then the first year that we had an election monitor, and this is the first year we were actually able to change the board. So that felt really good. I had so many success stories like that.
Speaker 1:You know the reverse is also true. So I've been out to a lot of meetings where they've had an outside election monitor, because a number of owners have petitioned for it and the board was reelected and it was a free and fair election and it kind of laid to rest the feeling that there was something sketchy going on. It's why I do recommend the boards embrace that. You should. You should want to have oversight into the process 100%.
Speaker 2:You know, for these associations where there's a lot of animosity and the board knows that no matter what happens in the election, there's going to be people that are upset and they may have to, you know, go to arbitration and have a mediator, arbitrator, look at the election afterwards. That's going to cost time and money and frustration. Well, just having a monitor there kind of cuts down on the potential of future complaints. So yeah it just makes sure that everything goes smoothly, and then people are generally pretty happy with the result.
Speaker 1:I made a tongue in cheek comment years ago on a blog that we should just have. We should just implement a jury duty style for board membership. Everybody gets a number. When your number gets called, you're on the board, you can. You know, you can say I can't do it because I've got X, y or Z going on in my life. People didn't like that, they didn't like that suggestion and I really didn't make it. It wasn't really a serious suggestion, but the issue with these elections is often people who feel like they're being precluded from joining the board. Were election issues one of the most frequent complaints you got when you served as ombudsman.
Speaker 2:Definitely Election issues were really common, Record requests very common. And then I think probably half the condo owners in Florida think that someone is getting a kickback or stealing money. So that was also super common of an allegation, I should say.
Speaker 1:How did you handle the kickbacks? Somebody calls you and they say I think my board president's taking a kickback when you were ombudsman. What was the process when that complaint came in? Where does it go from there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, if you ask law enforcement, they'll tell you that it's really hard to prove kickbacks and theft. Embezzlement is, as you know, a criminal matter that the DBPR does not have jurisdiction over because they only handle civil matters. So when people came to me, I would generally tell them you know, I'm happy to talk with you, tell you what the law says, tell you if I think this could be illegal or not, but at the end of the day you're going to be responsible for putting together some proof of that. And then I mean, heck, I'll go with you to the police, I'll go with you to the state attorney's office and talk to them and explain you know what they need to do here and what I can do here, and I did that plenty of times. But kickbacks and a lot of other things in condos are very hard to prove.
Speaker 1:So when you served as ombudsman, one of the responsibilities or rights of the ombudsman's office is to kind of advocate for legislation. What did you advocate for during your three years in terms of, you know, perhaps new resources or even more enforcement? Did you ever get into the, you know, giving the office a little more enforcement?
Speaker 2:Definitely. I had a lot of conversations with legislators over the years and a lot of them, especially from South Florida felt that the ombudsman's office would be better suited to have some sort of, you know, detailed subpoena power, detailed power, maybe, to remove board members proposed some legislation.
Speaker 2:Senator Ana Maria Rodriguez had proposed some really good bills, I believe. I believe at one point we were talking about moving the ombudsman's office to the attorney general's office and giving it some teeth. That never happened and I don't know if it ever will happen. But I remember that during some conversations with legislators they would say well, I know that you would love this and I think you'd be great and you'd be, you know, you would do a great job if the office had that.
Speaker 1:But what about the next ombudsman?
Speaker 2:Right, like we don't want to give the ombudsman's office all this power and then who knows who the next person is going to be, and that could create problems. So I heard that a bunch of times.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's interesting because they are actually well, it was the governor appointing. Now there's a bill pending in Florida where they would change that. I think the appointment, if that bill passes, will be made by the secretary of the DPPR. And there's another bill pending, that's already been drafted, that would create an office of the ombudsman for homeowners associations. How do you feel about that? Do you think?
Speaker 2:HOAs need their own ombudsman, so the first one. I thought that was passed last year. I believe it's already the case that the secretary appoints the ombudsman.
Speaker 1:Right about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that they snuck that in one of the huge condo bills last year, and I'm probably the only person that saw it. Yeah, I mean, I think they probably had a hard time finding a replacement for whatever reason. Maybe because condos are such a difficult topic now, with everything going on, there weren't as many people that wanted to take the job I really don't know.
Speaker 2:I'm just speculating. So you know, whatever they needed to do, they needed to do. I liked the fact that the governor appointed it because it meant the ombudsman was a little more independent than the DBPR. Although I was, you know, in the DBPR, I felt like I really reported to the governor. That gave me a little more independence. And regarding your second question with the HOAs, I think an HOA ombudsman can't hurt. It's just a question of where the funding is going to come from, because if you're listening to this, you may or may not know that condo owners in Florida pay $4 for their unit to the state to fund the division of condos, timeshares and mobile homes, and that then funds the ombudsman's office. But there's no such charge for HOAs. So I suppose the legislature would have to charge HOA owners a couple of dollars to support that office. It probably wouldn't make sense to have, in my opinion, to have the condo owners paying for an HOA ombudsman. That's just my opinion.
Speaker 1:So not to combine it? The bill I saw the HOA ombudsman would still have the requirement that he or she be an attorney, a Florida licensed attorney, which is what you work, but the condo ombudsman no longer has that requirement, to your point probably because they needed a larger net for candidates.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's probably the case, and I think a lot of times what they do is they recycle bills, and I think that's why the HOA ombudsman bill still requires the ombudsman to be attorney is because it's recycled old language. That's just a guess then.
Speaker 1:Do you think it's helpful to be an attorney in that role?
Speaker 2:Of course. I mean I think that the job requires some sort of legal understanding, Like you're working in the Condo Act, Chapter 718, Florida Statutes every day, so to have that legal background is really useful. Now, it's not to say you can't do a great job if you're not a lawyer. There's a lot of things you can do that would be great for the office and there were a lot of things that I did that I felt like I didn't even need to be a lawyer for, but I feel like if possible, it would even need to be a lawyer for, but I just I feel like, if possible, it would be great to have a lawyer in there, but I'm sure that the new ombudsman, who's not a lawyer, is going to do a great job and change my mind on that.
Speaker 1:There is the perception, spencer, in many communities that the ombudsman is there on behalf, solely on behalf, of the unit owners, the angry mob, and not the board.
Speaker 2:Did you hear from boards?
Speaker 1:Was your office also a resource for board members.
Speaker 2:It was A lot of times the board members would come to us trying to save money on attorney bills because they wanted us to give some sort of legal opinion, and I would then just refer them to their counsel because, as I would tell the same thing to the unit owners that I can't represent anyone.
Speaker 2:I can't give you legal advice. I can tell you what the law says, but I can't take a step forward than that and start interpreting your condominium documents and giving you legal opinions about recommendations. Can't really do that. So, yeah, there were times that I definitely referred people just said you know, listen, this is something you need a lawyer for. I can't represent you here.
Speaker 1:Balance the competing interest, because there are competing interests in all of these associations the owners, the management and the board. Yeah, I mean, I never took sides right.
Speaker 2:The whole point of the office was to be neutral. So I always felt like my job was just to make sure that, or do my best to make sure that people were able to have a conversation. And it's harder to ignore people when a state official just request a meeting and then, you know, pop in on Zoom and just try to get both sides to hear each other out, and if that didn't work then it's like all right, I guess now you got to call a lawyer, but I did my best to facilitate some communication here.
Speaker 1:So the episode that was released today, the day we're taping your episode it actually kind of dovetails nicely because it's a conversation the first of the year on the podcast and it's with a unit owner and this unit owner is a retired attorney and he lives in relatively new construction. They're undergoing a 558 claim. He's a retired corporate attorney and he has made some really salient points about the challenges he's had with his condo board living in this building with some of the more persnickety rules and regulations, but he did it in a very respectful way. So I think sometimes owners are dismissed if they're not, you know, if they're a little critical of their boards. But on the flip side, I imagine you got to know some owners who called you all the time about everything, because we see that in some communities Sometimes I do refer to them as recreational complainers because they do seem to be filing a lot of complaints. Was there any cutoff at some point where you thought somebody was making frivolous complaints?
Speaker 2:There were the DBPR called those people the frequent flyers.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, I like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So there would be times where one of the paralegals in the office would be trying to assist a unit owner and she would assist that unit owner and tell them all the information that we had, what the statute says, so on and so forth, and they still wouldn't be happy. So it would get escalated to an office supervisor and then it'd get escalated to me and at a certain point I'd have to say, listen, this is, you know, my opinion on the matter. This is what it is, it's not going to change. And you know we're trying to assist people here. We can't just go over the same thing with you over and over again. You know, if the facts change, feel free to email or call, but you know, respectfully, I'm going to have to end this call because there's a lot of other people that we need to assist today. That was pretty rare though, but it happened a couple of times.
Speaker 1:But you mentioned the $4 per door fee per door fee. So you you know I imagine you've got your frequent flyers are sucking up a lot more of those resources than the people who are not calling you all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sometimes people just want to feel heard. Yeah, so I put on my therapist hat sometimes when I was the ombudsman.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we did that too, as the association council. I'm sure the management companies do as well. What do you think the biggest misperception was about your office when you were the ombudsman?
Speaker 2:I think people assumed that it had more power than it did. People assumed that it had more power than it did. The way it's written now in the law it's sort of a toothless tiger, except with regard to the elections, that there is some power to conduct the elections. But it's not like the ombudsman's office can throw people in jail or remove board members. And there were a lot of times where that was the wish of people. They thought, oh, if I, you know, schedule a meeting and then voice my concerns that the big bad ombudsman is going to show up and take the board members off, and you know I'll be, I'll be smiling watching them leave the board. But that doesn't work like that. So I think that's probably the biggest misconception.
Speaker 1:Do you think the office should have that kind of authority, assuming you could create, you know, some due process?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that'd be great. You're just yes, absolutely, we should do this, absolutely, absolutely. No, I fought for that. I mean, I had a lot of conversations with legislators and they saw what I was doing with the role. They saw that there may be some, at that time, holes in the DBPR with regard to enforcement, and we worked on it. But it's hard to change the law and there were competing interests there, so I did the best with what I had. I think I'd like to change the name of the ombudsman's office something more menacing, maybe like the condominium attorney general or something like that would have been good.
Speaker 1:Oh, my gosh Okay.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:Also ombudsman's hard to pronounce sometimes. Yes, yeah, my dad still can't say it Are there other states that have offices of condominium ombudsman or HOA ombudsman.
Speaker 2:There are. I remember getting calls over the years from some of those offices. I think Illinois had one, maybe Virginia, I don't really remember, but there were a couple other ones.
Speaker 1:Listen, I hear you when you say you wanted to have more teeth to the office because there is a lot, of, a lot of messes that need to be mocked up. Granted, there's also a lot of highly functioning communities as well. I do think you know and we've seen the. I want to ask you about the trends you've seen over the last couple of years Condo 3.0, we're seeing there's going to be a condo 4.0. 3.0. We're seeing there's going to be a condo 4.0.
Speaker 1:So we always have legislators in Florida, and I imagine other states as well, who make shared ownership issues their platform. Right, I do think the legislature needs to take into account when associations are grappling with a disaster. I mean, we're here taping this on January 15th. The wildfires are still raging out in Los Angeles. We have a six month hurricane season here in Florida. A lot of times I think we forget about what it's like for a community association, the management team and the volunteer directors to be dealing with a casualty event and then have somebody come up and say I want to see all the documents during that time period. I think there needs to be some acknowledgement that there's a time and place for owners to say I want to have this or that and dealing with a tragedy or a casualty. I don't think that's the time or place. What do you think about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I think that the record request system right now is kind of antiquated. I was a fan of just having all associations put everything online so that you wouldn't have to deal with sending a record request through certified mail and then showing up with your own scanner. If it's online, it's just easy. You know, it could be three o'clock in the morning. You can pull up your condo declaration and read it. So I thought that would solve a lot of problems that I was seeing. And, yeah, like you said, you know it's a really interesting time in the world of condos. I think we're starting to see some more condo terminations, which I know is something that you've spoken about on the podcast, and I'm thankful to have the opportunity to work with real estate developers and, you know, be working on some condo terminations now with attorneys like Sandra Crumbine and Peggy Rolando, who I know you know great, great condo attorneys here at Schutz, and I think that's a trend that's probably going to uptick in the coming years.
Speaker 1:You think we're going to see even more condo terminations?
Speaker 2:I think so. I mean, it's not going to get cheaper to live in a condo, and sometimes termination is just what makes financial sense for the association.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I agree, I think the decades old belief that living in a condo was a turnkey experience right, I just go. Everything else is maintained. It's not that simple and I think people overlook the fact that you don't just maintain the white box. You know the white box, your unit, you have to maintain everything and living in Florida in a geographically vulnerable area like we do, it takes its toll. So I agree with you and, yeah, you have some great attorneys at Becker. I know both of the women you've named and they're fantastic and I think there are going to be I think there are going to be more condo terminations. I am concerned about the media reports on the state of the condo market in Florida right now. What impact do you think the media is actually having on our condo market right now?
Speaker 2:Are you referring to like like scare tactics?
Speaker 1:Some of it is just, I think they're trying to set a kind of caveat emptor theme out there, which is you know, when you go look at a condo, don't just look at the view and the layout of your unit Really maybe dig into it, maybe become more of an informed consumer. I think in that regard, the media is doing a good job, but I do think that we're having an impact. Having an impact. There's been a number of articles over the last couple of months that didn't sound so good, as the deadlines for engineering and reserve funding were nearing the end of 2024.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no one knows how it's going to play out. We could be on the edge of a cliff or things could be completely normal for the next five years and the prices can continue to go up. No one has a crystal ball, but yeah, I think there's some scare tactics happening with the headlines these days in condos and you know that's that sells. People like to read those sort of articles and there may be truth to some of it. But you know, we'll see what happens in the next. Maybe we can do another episode in three years and we can look back.
Speaker 1:Maybe you'll. Maybe you'll go back into public service at some point. What do you think? You were the youngest condominium ombudsman. Is there perhaps a gubernatorial run in your future? I don't think so.
Speaker 2:I like being a lawyer. I do really like the idea of shaping policy and helping people, and I miss that aspect. But right now I'm just focused on being the best lawyer that I can be and providing for my lovely wife, Victoria. Shout out to Victoria and we'll see. I mean maybe later in life, but there's some things I want to do first.
Speaker 1:Fair enough, I'll have you back on if you do go back into public service at some point. There's a new ombudsman, I think, in place. What advice do you have for him?
Speaker 2:Yeah, he called me. We had a couple of really good conversations. I think that he needs to learn the landscape of condos first and foremost and I think he's doing a good job at that and then he needs to make a plan and figure out what sort of ombudsman he's going to be. I know that his background is more on the policy side than on the legal side he's not a lawyer, but he worked shaping policy for a nonprofit organization, I believe and yeah, it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out. I think he's kind of just getting started now, but he needs to figure out what his vision is, because that could be different than my vision. But I will say that I am happy that there's someone that's driven there and someone that has the energy to make a difference and actually help people, and I think that's the type of person that we need in that role.
Speaker 1:I agree. So if you were serving in that role today, after the experiences, after everything we've experienced the last couple of years in Florida, what would your top priorities be?
Speaker 2:Yeah well, the rule completely changed when Surfside happened. The type of complaints changed, the job changed, the politics changed, everything changed and you know that because you've been in condos, so you know the condo landscape changed. Today I still think there's a lot of ambiguity in the law about milestone inspections and structural integrity reserve studies. There's confusion, there's ambiguity and I think the legislature is still ironing that out right. They've done like glitch bills to fix certain things in the past two years.
Speaker 2:I think probably my priority would be education and then do my best to create educational resources for people so that they actually understand what the law requires, and it's confusing. I mean, I know there's attorneys and managers out there that are still confused and still debate this all the time what's actually required versus what's not required. So I think I'd probably want to sit down with legislators and sit down with the major stakeholders and try to establish what the law actually says.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, listen, that should be a top priority. The bill that passed last year requires mandatory four-hour education for board members. I think that's a great start. I don't know how much people are retaining, because I will tell you, I agree wholeheartedly that there's mass confusion out there. There's even confusion amongst the professional advisors that these boards are hiring.
Speaker 1:I mean, think about this. These are volunteers and I've come across advice being given by engineers, other attorneys, reserve specialists. That does not completely match up with what the law says, what the requirements are. So we do have more work to do. I think things go look, I think the ideas are good, and if the goal was to have the safest housing stock in the country, that's great. But these bills go into bill drafting and then I don't. I don't know, but these bills go into bill drafting and then I don't know what happens when it gets into bill drafting. I mean it'd be great to be able to peek behind that curtain and see what's really going on and if they're going through the statute as a whole and who they're reaching out to in terms of advice when it comes to drafting that stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, only the legislature knows. I was happy last year I went up there and did a panel for the regulated industries for the Senate and that was really productive. But yeah, I mean it's. You have to be like an experienced condo lawyer to understand what's going on in the law these days. Maybe you can get up to Tallahassee and work on some of these bills this year, thanks.
Speaker 1:Now I'm going to leave that to some of my partners to get up to Tallahassee and work on some of these bills this year, thanks. Now I'm going to leave that to some of my partners to get up to Tallahassee, I think. But I mean I wouldn't be opposed to doing it. I remember back in the day we used to take board members up to Tallahassee. It was quite the experience shepherding them around the halls up there. So if you could give one piece of advice, spencer Hennings, to every condo owner and every board member, what would it be?
Speaker 2:Easy Get involved, go to the meetings, run for the board, pay attention to what's going on, care about what's going on in your condo. I think that's like the key, you know. Get involved and don't just complain, right? If you don't like what's going on, run for the board, right. Anyone can sit back and point their finger and say, oh, that's wrong. Um, and don't just complain, right? If you don't like what's going on, run for the board, right. Anyone can sit back and point their finger and say, oh, that's wrong. But it takes, you know, it takes courage to run for the board and stick up for something and, and, uh, make positive changes.
Speaker 1:So I asked you at the outset if in 2020, when you were appointed, you had lived in a condo and you said you had, but you hadn't served on the board today in 2025. Condo HOA.
Speaker 2:I'm in a condo, but I will say when you've seen enough nightmare stories like I have, you want to get out. So as soon as I can afford it, I'm going to be in a house hopefully not in an HOA and I'll be in complete control of my domain.
Speaker 1:But listen.
Speaker 2:I think condos are good, I think HOAs are good, I think they're net positive. I work with developers to create them and they're really positive and for a lot of people it's the right move. So I think, just I'm scarred, I'm scarred.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you're scarred. I'm absolutely certain that some of these things remain in your head. Is there a lot of housing stock, though? In South Florida that is, outside the walls of a community association.
Speaker 2:No, it's. I mean, real estate in South Florida has become insanely expensive. Yeah, I think that's, you know, going to keep pushing people in condos, keep pushing people in HOA communities, and that's good. I mean. They're really a positive thing. You know HOAs and condos. They're good at usually keeping your property value, making sure that your next door neighbor isn't going to do something crazy and keeping order, and you know great amenities and locations. So I think there's a lot of really great things about condos and HOAs. Like I said, I'm just scarred, you know. I think if you have that job for three years and you just see the nightmare stories day after day, it's like OK, the last thing I want to see when I go home is another condo.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hear you. I mean some of the complaints we do hear, though, from people who don't want to live in a condo or HOA, but they're saying there's not a lot of housing stock that's outside the scope of a mandatory association. So I don't know. I guess we'll see. I want to thank you for joining us and I'm going to keep an eye on your career because I have a feeling that wasn't the last public office you were going to hold. I don't know, We'll see.
Speaker 2:We'll see, but I appreciate it. Dawn, thanks so much for having me on.
Speaker 1:Thanks. Thanks so much for having me on. Thanks, thank you for joining us today. Don't forget to follow and rate us on your favorite podcast platform, or visit takeittotheboardcom for more ways to connect.