Take It To The Board with Donna DiMaggio Berger
Take It To The Board with Donna DiMaggio Berger
Diving Into the Developers' Mindset with Becker’s Jennifer Bales Drake
Have you ever wondered about the where, why, what and when questions that developers ask themselves before deciding on their new construction projects? Then this episode of Take It To The Board, is for you. Join us as host Donna DiMaggio Berger sits down with Jennifer Bales Drake, a key figure in Becker’s real estate practice, to break down the opportunities and obstacles developers face today and how those issues ultimately impact YOUR real estate purchasing options.
Very often, purchasers lament certain operational issues in their communities without fully understanding the developer documents which created the complex infrastructure under which they live. If you can get inside a developer's mindset will it help you make better purchase decisions? Donna and Jennifer's conversation covers these issues as well the future of real estate, with trends like micro-units, mixed-use communities, and affordable housing taking center stage. They also tackle the Structural Integrity Reserve Study and how evolving regulations impact developers and homeowners alike.
And for a unique twist—Jennifer shares her passion for the arts as well as for bourbon and her role in the Bourbon Women's Association of Louisville, celebrating the contributions of women in the bourbon industry.
Don’t miss this engaging episode packed with industry insights—plus a little bourbon wisdom to top it off!
Conversation Highlights Include:
- The biggest challenges developers face in today’s market
- Trends in mixed-use and innovative development projects
- Environmental factors influencing maintenance obligations
- Changes in building safety and compliance standards, following the Surfside tragedy
- How developers are integrating resilience and mitigation measures into projects, given Florida’s unique vulnerability to hurricanes and flooding
- Are developers rethinking construction along the coastline?
- Current state of Florida’s condo market from a developer’s perspective
- How are developers finding ways to address the middle-market condo buyer?
- How Public-Private Partnership projects are shaping real estate development in Florida
- Bourbon BONUS: Which bourbon brand would Jennifer recommend you bring along if you were stranded on a desert island!
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Hi everyone, I'm attorney Donna DiMaggio-Berger, and this is Take it to the Board where we speak condo and HOA. Today's guest brings an important perspective to our podcast, that of developers, counsel. With construction booming in many parts of the US, and particularly in Florida, where we are situated, our conversation is an important one.
Speaker 1:My partner, Jennifer Drake, has been a key player in shaping Becker's real estate department and has worked extensively with developers over the years. Jennifer was recognized as a Best Lawyer in America for Real Estate Law. In their 2023, 2024, and 2025 editions, the Greater Fort Lauderdale Alliance Foundation named Jennifer as a 2021 Leadership Award recipient for her outstanding community leadership. Jennifer has also been named to the Martindale-Hubbell Bar Register of Preeminent Women Lawyers in Legal Ability and Ethical Standards, as well as being AV rated by Martindale-Hubbell. She's currently the Vice Chair of the Greater Fort Lauderdale Alliance and is the incoming chair for next year. Jennifer is also a former president of Leadership Broward.
Speaker 1:Jennifer also serves on the board of directors of the Business for the Arts Broward and is the chair of the Public Arts Committee, which is spearheading the Lead with Love Art Murals Project in collaboration with the Community Foundation. They will have nine love murals painted by New York artist Say Adams and placed in various cities throughout Broward County. Additionally, their committee is looking at potentially being able to have 11 to 14 outdoor mural projects in the pipeline for 2025. They're working hard to assist local artists and also bring art to the citizens of Broward County. Well, since I am a citizen of Broward County. I am looking forward to seeing all that. In this episode, we'll explore how Jennifer helps developers navigate Florida's unique real estate challenges, and we'll also dive into trends that are shaping today's condominium and HOA market. Make sure you listen to the entire episode, because at the end we're going to talk a little bit about bourbon.
Speaker 1:So, whether you're here for the real estate insights or the bourbon banter, this episode promises a smooth finish. So just at the outset, Jen, could you walk us through your role as developer counsel in the early stages of a new project? Sure.
Speaker 2:So when a developer wants to develop a condominium project, an HOA project, land, community development, that type of thing, I usually get an email. Community development, that type of thing I usually get an email. I usually get a call. In which case I then set up a meeting, because what I need to know is what are they planning? What type of projects is it going to be? Is it going to be a mix of commercial and residential, or only residential? Is it condo, is it townhomes? Is it single family homes? What's their vision? And then I set up a meeting with them because it's very important to know where they want to go, what they want to achieve and how they want to achieve it, because that determines what documents I use.
Speaker 2:If it's going to be a large project with more than one condominium building, I have a master association. Sometimes, if it's a large HOA with many, many homes, we have some associations. We try to stay to be very honest. If it's smaller developments, we try to stay away from the Condo Act. If we can get into a townhome HOA, a lot of problems with that is that the townhome has to be subdivided. So if your town or municipality will not let you subdivide that property, then we have to use condo because condominiums are a subdivision of property without having to plat.
Speaker 1:I know that's getting technical, but that's very important because it's getting real technical, real quick, and that just shows how complicated it is. How quickly do you talk about budget, jen, when you get that first call or email and I'm not just talking about the legal budget of what they're going to pay you to help them realize the development Overall how quickly do you get into a budget conversation?
Speaker 2:From an association point of view, that is totally on the developer. My initial conversations on budget is literally legal, depending on what they're going to do, how they're going to do it. I send out a big proposal with a lot of information. And what's fun about my practice is I've run the gamut from strictly commercial. I've got condominiums that are huge, expensive condominiums just for fancy cards. I've got plenty of residential. I've got combined residential, commercial, so you name it. I also do vertical subdivisions, just so you know.
Speaker 2:But the budget, because we're not accountants, I give them the structure, I tell them legally what's required in the budget, because under 718, you have to have set line items even if they don't apply. And that's one of the hardest things to get developers to do right off the bat. But it is totally up to them. I will tell you a developer, no matter whether it's high end or lower end, their assessment and their budget are extremely important to them, for sales are extremely important to them for sales. So with and I know I'm going to throw in a concept we'll probably talk about later with insurance and now these assessments, these service requirements, the reserves, it's getting very, very expensive to live in a condominium in the States.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean no doubt, and that's been kind of a running theme on the podcast. So we need to talk about budgets and how there's a perception that the developer budgets are somehow kept artificially low because they're looking to sell and then, post-turnover, the first thing that happens is every line item just about increases. Is that?
Speaker 2:reality, is it?
Speaker 1:perception.
Speaker 2:Well, not when I'm representing them. Okay, Reality is. Here's the legal advice I give my every one of my developers. I've done it from the beginning and I do it now.
Speaker 2:I tell them it is very important that you develop a realistic budget because if you don't, you can be sued Bottom line. So I think it's very important that I, when I represent a developer, to make sure that I protect the developers, but also that the developers understand the legality and all the issues going on in 718. And the problem with budgets in the last I would say 15 years or so, donna, and the reason it goes from one extreme sometimes to a large is insurance costs. So if we have a string of years where there's a lot of hurricanes and we've got a high rise, it's going to take at least three years to build their original budget. I tell them has to be realistic. If they have a huge jump in insurance and it happens the year that they start closings, then you're going to see a high increase. But if they're guaranteeing that budget which I've not had a developer of a high-rise that doesn't guarantee it it stays at that lower level. But we go ahead and we have to create our annual budget that shows what the costs are.
Speaker 1:You know I'm wondering as I'm listening to you walk through your process and, as you said, guiding your developer clients to come out of the gate with a realistic budget. I have, over the last two years, come across a lot of I would call them boutique developers, smaller developers. Some of them are doing these vanity projects with all the bells and whistles. They are not developers that are going to continue developing in the state of Florida. Again, it may be a one-off or two-off vanity project. They are using, almost without exception, counsel that really are not familiar with 718, not familiar with 720. And so sometimes we see those budgets are way off. Also, it makes transition, which, for our listeners, is the process whereby the owners eventually take control of the association from the developer. It's night and day. Why do you think that's happening?
Speaker 2:Because of what happened in Florida in 2008. In 2008, you know, until then, which was the Great Recession in case people don't remember, it was when we had they didn't just taper off I had 60 developers and we hit a wall because Fannie Mae said we're not going to issue any mortgages for condo units in Florida. Then that went with all whether it was Fannie Mae loans or larger loans and what I'm going to call the real experienced developers that you saw, that did the same projects over and over and we didn't have a housing shortage then and everything wasn't only high rise. Those were the good old days.
Speaker 2:We have a whole different group of people coming in and during that time, because it was so hard to get money, it was so hard to even build a condo. You have a lot of what I'm going to call foreign developers that came up from Latin America that developed things totally different.
Speaker 2:But we also have a ton of New York developers totally different, but we also have a ton of New York developers. And I want to be very careful here because I'm not. I just know how I practice law and I don't want to get in on how other people do. But I think what happens is is they come in and they use these firms that they've used for their equity businesses, their commercial you know contracts. They're corporate contracts and, as you know, lawyers, when you're asked if you can do something, you say, sure, I can do that, because, donna, you know, think about it. You can get a whole filing from the division. You can go online and get these. It's easy to get the documentation.
Speaker 1:Kind of mimic what somebody else has built.
Speaker 2:Yes, but here's the fun and one of the benefits that I have with being a Becker attorney. For years and years, when I first came to Becker, I was a developer attorney. Becker was known for suing developers and I remember a lot of my colleagues were going oh how would you do that, why would you go there? I said I'm going to use it to my benefit. And I used it and I still use it to my benefit, because I know 718 really, really well. I also know what happens from an association point of view and I've been able to use my association attorney practice group as a sounding board.
Speaker 2:How would you attack? Well, especially in litigation, how would you attack this contract? What would you do with this provision? And because my documents have evolved and I know some people think there's a lot of legalese in it, but my documents, as have most documents people like Greenberg, you know that people that attorneys that really know this our documents have evolved because of the lawsuits that have occurred, the arbitrary you know the arbitration cases that have come down. We've learned from what happened.
Speaker 1:Legislative changes over the last couple decades, which have been significant.
Speaker 2:Yeah, lately they've been huge In the town area too. They're starting to regulate townhomes extensively. But we've learned. But that's also made our condo docs get really big. So but I mean, you know, anywhere from mold issues because that's South Florida to noise, to if I'm going to have a restaurant in my condo project, I've got to make sure that I put a disclaimer about smells. You know it's so anyway, that's, that's that story.
Speaker 1:When we're talking about an experienced counsel, maybe not. I mean, they could be very experienced. As you said, it could be your private equity attorney, you know law firm or attorney. What about inexperienced developers? So I'm wondering again how educated or sophisticated the consumer? Is when they see one of these buildings and it's beautiful and bells and whistles, but it's a brand new developer to the market and it's probably, as again maybe a one-off project. Should those potential purchasers be concerned about who the developer?
Speaker 2:is. I think so. I mean, I truly think so. So I represented Ugo Colombo for years and years on his very first project, bristol Tower, and that's when he was doing a lot of different projects and one of the classic things about that company as a developer is they knew they were going to do additional projects, additional projects on Brickell, additional projects in South Florida and it was very important to him as the owner of the company and it ran through the company that we want to do a product that our buyers want to go somewhere else and buy again. They were always treated and I lawyered from the position that they wanted to do what was again. We protected them but do what was best for their end buyers. And it was a formula that worked because people knew that if they got a unit in that building, it was very well built.
Speaker 2:What happened after the crash of the 08, and then we went through the whole great recession and then condos started coming back and I was talking about New York. So all these it got to be a race of what fancy, really loved architect that's built some really expensive unit in our development in New York. Could they get to come down here and design their project, because that's what the selling point was, that's what everybody flocked to. I had clients in New York that would have me review the documents because they knew I was a developer attorney, because they could get a unit with ABC Architect for half the price of what they were paying in New York, even though they still had the New York unit. So that what you've seen with that type of development is where not normal condo developers saw a real opening and came down here and really and they took it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so let's let's get back to the project. You get a call. You're working on that. You're working on the documents. What are the potential landmines? That can derail, a new construction project.
Speaker 2:Lack of experience of the developer Not as much now. There used to be more of a lending issue. The money was tighter, with interest rates having come down some for a while. The high interest rates, the high cost of construction is still difficult to get around. Interest rates have come down. Now.
Speaker 2:If you're a really good developer you can get a decent loan and all of the lenders learned to use, or have the developer use, their deposits prior to really the loan kicking in. But you can still have what I'm going to call. By the time they see me, they've already gone through all their land use issues. They've gone through any variances they need to do. Those pitfalls have already been taken care of. So now ours are more. If they run into a permitting issue, you know as they go through. You know as they go through. But it's gotten in the last few years. We don't have that many problems again on probably actually getting the project built. It's getting it to the point where construction starts. Once construction starts it's usually pretty good sailing. The other thing is is the you know getting the contracts. As these laws are starting to change, I foresee that we're going to have fewer and fewer non-ultra rich people being able to afford living in condominiums in Florida that is again a kind of a theme that's run throughout the last couple seasons on the podcast.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, decades ago 50s, 60s people, this was affordable to live in a, in a coastal condominium. They saw it as turnkey. They didn't, you know. They came down their little slice of paradise that they could afford. Not really the case now. I did want to ask you, um, about hiccups and hiccups when it comes to the prospectus, and how closely does the state oversee what you submit?
Speaker 2:Oh, the state oversees it. I'll be very careful here. There used to be a high level of expertise at the state. A gentleman by the name of Rick Crowe was wonderful. He understood the statute really well. He understood the unit buyer side and the developer side. He's the kind of examiner that you could call up and explain some of the things you were doing and how the statute really does apply. I think the way it's gotten now with COVID and just the whole change of administrations. The division has a checklist of items They've got and they've provided it now to all of us as attorneys that do this work and they have listed what sections of the statute. So the people that now review our documents. They review everything with a fine-tooth comb but it's very rote and I have found in quite a few occasions that the examiner does not necessarily understand If it doesn't read just like the statute. I'm trying.
Speaker 1:That's why I was asking you, because you have indicated that over the years your documents have evolved as they need to when you're taking into account the overall statutory framework, the case law framework. And we all know, because we see it on the legislative end, when a bill proposal goes into Senate drafting and it comes out and it's like it was drafted in a vacuum. Almost it's the same type of thing. So that's why I kind of asked you.
Speaker 2:Let me tell you why. It's the same type of thing Back in the day of people like Rick Crow, we used to be able to take I'm going to back up here for everybody that isn't familiar with the making of the sausage and legislation and all of that. Statutes are not always very well written and they're not always clear, especially not only for lawyers, but they're not always clear for the public right, the people of mind. So we used to be able to take the statute and make what I'm going to call plain English paragraphs. That meant the same thing because of the way our documents are reviewed today by the division. If it doesn't read like the statute, we get a deficiency.
Speaker 1:That is such an important point because you know you're at the front end of it. I'm at the I wouldn't say the very back end, because the very back end is termination, but I'm right at the beginning. The next, you know, turn in the path which is transition, and then we start digging into the documents and the policies and the protocols and I always get this question what is this? Why are these documents so filled with legalese? And you just explained it because it has to track the statute, and the statute, as we know look, we've got people listening all over, jennifer, not just in Florida, but Florida's condominium act is, in my opinion, the most bloated, incomprehensible shared ownership statute in the country, and that's what we're dealing with it is.
Speaker 2:And if you went back and looked at a set of documents I did 20 years ago, five years ago, compared to what it is today, you would totally go oh, I get what she's saying. So you know, you know as well as I do. Some of that language is extremely hard to interpret. I mean, it just is, but that's what we have to put in because we have to get our documents approved, and that's what we do.
Speaker 1:It's like the Community Association Lawyers Relief Act, because, on the one hand, they don't necessarily like us all that much, but it virtually guarantees that our phones are going to ring, our emails are going to. You know, come to our inboxes, because, as you said, it is not a model of clarity. Let's just say that I did want to talk to you about developers, and this is not necessarily in your area because you're creating the documents, but how important is it for developers and how often do they have to seek out the cooperation of neighboring property owners Because they're developing now in areas right next door? It's very dense. What do you think?
Speaker 2:It used to be an issue back in the day, people, when South Florida wasn't so full of high rises. You know, from the time we started the crane count, it never really went down. I don't know if you're listening. Public understands or remembers the crane count, but it still goes on. There were so many condominiums being developed in South Florida. There was a whole organization that would count the cranes and it used to only be Miami-Dade, and then it moved up to Broward and now it's up in and and Palm Beach County too. Um, so I think that we as a society have become used to high rises. I mean, I think, some of them. You have to wonder what the municipalities and I know I'm representing developers but are thinking. I know here in Broward we've got some high rises that are so close that the biggest complaints we get are the debris of the construction of the building, that is literally falling on existing condominiums balconies.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's our big neighboring issue and, to be honest, once you've got that right to build, it's not like they're stopping your construction.
Speaker 1:So, jennifer, you said a while ago you mentioned car condominiums. I got to know what that is. I have to know what that is a condominium exclusively for cars and also want to know what other trends you're seeing out there right now.
Speaker 2:So I have a developer who has a great concept and he's got two projects in Palm Beach and he is going to expand it and it's Hangar Alpha, hangar Bravo and what they literally do. You know how you would do a condo hotel, where the skin of the building is shared facilities and the air is the condo association. We've built it that way so that the looks are the same, the outside of the building is maintained and it's for you know, there are a lot of car clubs and car enthusiasts down here, especially now that we have the F1 race in Miami, and so it is literally condominiums and they're really nice and the project there's a club and a clubhouse and all these car enthusiasts they buy their units, they can work on the cars there. Some of them have lifts and have three or four cars and they do a loft and have, you know, a sofa and stereo and all of that they get together. But you can't live there, you know it's.
Speaker 1:What if you can't? Do you have prohibitions against people sleeping overnight or just for a consecutive number of nights? Something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's usually because of the uh permitting and the ordinances. What are board meetings like? Do they drive their cars? Everybody's happy, you know, but you don't live there. It's their cars. They have a good time. It's a great concept I guess so interesting.
Speaker 1:Oh so what else? What other construction trends specifically? I read about micro. Have you done any projects with these teeny, tiny units?
Speaker 2:I had several developers that looked into that and decided against it. There are several that are being developed. I think a lot of the developers that were going to do that as condos switched to making apartments making apartments. But now because of the cost, see we have it's not as high as New York, but our living costs are still like Broward County was number one for the last few years just the whole cost of living.
Speaker 2:Micro units are now making a comeback, but they're in day right now because that's kind of that the trends start down there it's it's interesting totally different counties. The other thing that's surprising that I'm finding is that what I'm going to call the non-national kind of the local developers, the family owned developers, those types of things they're starting to look at units not going over three stories. Now, that doesn't avoid SERS, but what it does is you don't have the construction costs, you don't have all the insurance liability, you don't have the assessment reserves that you're going to need the maintenance to reserve for the building and it's going to be a push-pull because we're running out of land here. So I'm finding I'm seeing that more on the West Coast, and then Not to which but you're going to have less density.
Speaker 2:You're going to have less that's the whole point You're going to. You'll need more land and less density. Right, you'll be more spread out. Yeah, the whole reason we've gone high rise crazy is because land's so expensive and the density you can get, so also lose the view, unless you, unless they're clustered around water right yeah, but. But so the thing about that is the. The buyer that you're seeking isn't looking so much for the view as reasonable housing, and in Florida reasonable housing is $8,000, $9,000.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a whole other podcast episode on affordable housing.
Speaker 2:I have a passion for that and I speak all over the country on attainable and I've done a website for one of my organizations, ai, ai unattainable housing. It's extremely difficult, you can't get. It's hard to get the cost of pencil out and be affordable. But even those in Florida are running $465,000.
Speaker 1:So not so attainable for most people, especially when we've got all these fancy restaurants moving down here, large corporations, and you wonder where are all the workers going to be living.
Speaker 2:Even the rentals are super expensive.
Speaker 1:As you said, I thought I read a year or so ago that the Miami rental market was one of the most expensive in the entire country in terms of what people's percentage of their paycheck goes towards housing. Broward was number one. Broward was number one.
Speaker 2:It's a very hospitality economy, so wages stay low. Even what I'm going to call white collar jobs are lower because of our baseline and you've got apartments running what they cost in, like Jersey City and those places. I mean, it's expensive. Jen, have you done a lot of mixed use communities? Oh yeah, that's mostly what I've done and and that's where we've, I've got a huge project right now Hallandale, oasis. Oasis Hallandale is actually it's it's two commercial condominiums, it's one piece of property, two commercial condominiums. It's got a dog park, it's got retail, it's got shops and then back in the back it's two high rise towers of residential 250 each. It's separate. So I had to do a master garage association because they're sharing it and their buildings sit on it but they're not part of it. It was quite interesting, quite interesting.
Speaker 1:So that was complicated. And speaking of which, so in these a lot of the mixed use communities, again, buyers will look at you know the view, their unit. They'll oh, how cool, I can go to the Whole Foods, I can go to the there's a dry cleaner here and everything. And then later they come to us and say the actual operations are very complicated in terms of the board, their sub-association, a master association. In terms of the board, their sub-association, a master association. I think that some of this is just inherently complicated because you've got such an ambitious development scheme.
Speaker 2:Well, no, it's because of 718. So the reason that we divide and do a lot of these vertical subdivisions in 718, we have a mixed use statute that says commercial space has to pay the same type of assessment, percentage-wise, as unit owners. Well, when you've got 10,000, 12,000 feet and you're paying the same, it doesn't work for getting tenants in there. It doesn't work for getting tenants in there, ok. So. And also, businesses don't want to be controlled by residential condominium associations, which is what the mixed use makes you do. If you don't have equal I mean they have equal voting. So we used to always, we used to always have weighted voting for commercial units, where they controlled their own destiny, so to speak, even though there were more units. Well, when they passed that law, we started playing with the okay, we'll make a cube of air for the commercial and they'll make that a separate lot. Then we'll do a condo lot, and a lot of that was with the shared facilities.
Speaker 2:I've done vertical subdivisions where we had a residential condominium, a whole, two floors of retail, a hotel and an office building and instead and a garage and a garage, a garage, and what I ended up doing is I created a declaration of covenants and restrictions and an association, like a master association, to govern all those lots. So we had a hotel lot, we had a residential condo lot so that the residential condo was its own being. And I always, if I'm doing that type of mixed development, it is very complicated from a drafting point of view, but if you separate it that way it's more governable and I always make sure the association has their own lobby, that they're lollipop and touch the ground, you know. But it's very important for an association to have control of all of that, because they also don't want to be whiplashed by the commercial part.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent, and that's why it's so important. Look, I think purchasers need to have their own council. Even for just a very basic. I'm buying a condo unit in just a five-story building. But when you're talking about this kind of mixed-use development and you've got a hotel component and you've got a restaurant and you need to dig into those documents, and I don't know many purchasers who are going to be able to do that on their own. So it really would behoove people to hire an attorney real estate attorney to help them walk them through their documents, while they still have the precision rights, and figure out whether or not this kind of development that they will feel comfortable with it.
Speaker 1:Because a lot of times we'll hear well this isn't fair and we're paying to subsidize this and there's people walking through our lobby to get and we've got security concerns and everything you just touched on, and a lot of it's going to boil down to developers counsel and how well they drafted those documents and how much they took into account the long-term operational pain points.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, and again that my benefit comes from where I am, where I am a shareholder. What I've seen and what I care as an attorney and a person in drafting my documents Okay, I could draft documents that are totally way way developer heavy and actually if a developer really wanted that, I would try to talk them out of it. Actually, if a developer really wanted that, I would try to talk them out of it. But if they're not going to do other developments to a point, as long as they're doing it legally, they can.
Speaker 2:But what I have seen is that the early remnants of our shared facilities hotel condos I mean, they're sexy as can be, because you've got a spa and it's four seasons and it looks great. But then all of a sudden and people do not read their documents. And it's very clear to me, even people spending 10 and $12 million on a unit do not read their documents, and sometimes they're too cheap to have attorneys do it. So what happens is is they've offloaded all these shared facilities that they're paying for, that they don't have any control over the budget. So, yeah, it's very important to know who your developer is and read the documents.
Speaker 1:Buyer beware, Jen. Have environmental factors influenced the way you draft these documents? Let me give you an example Window maintenance, for example. Let me give you an example Window maintenance, for example. If I'm looking at a 12-story condominium on the coast in Florida, does it make sense to have the owners maintaining those windows? Have the environmental factors influenced your drafting when it comes to maintenance and?
Speaker 2:repair obligations.
Speaker 2:So I've done quite a few high-rise condos that are very glass or heavy. Yeah, I always have the associate. I have the. It's, the owner's cost, association's responsibility for balconies and the glass, the glazing, because I may be one of these owners that I care but my neighbor may not even know what glazing is, which is for those who don't understand. That's making sure your windows are properly caught and keep the rain out.
Speaker 2:But my philosophy in drafting the documents and where I put the maintenance obligations were always with the thought that an association is going to hire a knowledgeable company because they have certain obligations of due diligence and stuff, but instead of having me with a leaky unit and the neighbor next door, because it's going to affect the people down below me, it's going to. So, yes, from that point of view, where you put maintenance obligations are very important. And again, I said something about balcony and balcony railings. That has always been something, especially on the coast, that I've put on the association to maintain, split by unit owners. Again, because, number one, the association is going to take care of a problem nine times out of 10, whereas an individual unit owner you can't count on.
Speaker 1:This is really becoming an issue in Florida now in the last few years because of the CERS or the Structural Integrity Reserve Study, which says that the association has to maintain reserves for windows if they are responsible for the maintenance and repair of those windows. So I've had a number of clients come and say well, we want to amend this, to push it back, the window maintenance and repair back onto the owners. And I always push back against that saying look, you think you're going to save in terms of not having to reserve for those components. Look, you think you're going to save in terms of not having to reserve for those components, You're going to lose in terms of paying legal fees, to chase these owners when they're not maintaining those windows, and also with regard to insurance premiums.
Speaker 1:But this is the short-term thinking we're seeing right now.
Speaker 2:I'm going to tell you another real important point too, to tell your unit owners Some of the largest damage that I've seen has not been wind damage. It's when we have like the hurricanes, where it's like urban, that's just rain, rain and the rain's going sideways. I mean millions and millions of dollars of damage, making condominiums uninhabitable, and you know as well as I do that it can take years to settle an insurance claim. So if you have windows that you've maintained as they are required to be maintained, you're going to eliminate a lot of damage and grief. I could not agree more.
Speaker 1:We're almost wrapping up here, but I do have to ask you because, look, you have really built a profile in the real estate industry over the last few decades. What tips do you have for younger attorneys who are listening as to how you did it, other than just being a really unbelievable real estate attorney, jennifer Well?
Speaker 2:thank you. You do have to be good at what you do. Yes, you have to have integrity. That's very important. You need to be consistently honorable and know the statute. Give your clients the best advice, but let them make their business decisions. And if they make their business decisions, then you craft your documents to protect them as best you can. Okay, but it's also very, very, very important to be involved in the community.
Speaker 2:I've been involved, like you said at the beginning. I've been involved in leadership for Howard. I was president. I was on the board for two different, six and seven year terms. I've been very involved. My very first community involvement was the Fort Lauderdale Seafood Festival. You get to know your community. You get to know the people. I've been very involved in the Fort Lauderdale Alliance, which is we are the economic development entity for Broward County. We're the first people that companies that want to move here see us. Well, the more you're involved. We're dealing with all the C-level executives. I'm dealing with the who's who of business people in Broward.
Speaker 2:You can't just do that. You can't just show up on the scene and become a vice chair or chair of that kind of organization. You have to give back to your community. So and then the other part of it is I have my young attorneys. They need to get involved in the believe it or not the bar association to get to know the attorneys and also to get to know again. I'm going to go back to knowing the law very well because that helps you to become a very good attorney. But you need to know both sides because you can't represent the developers really well if you don't know what and care about what the buyers and the unit owners are going to care about. Then you have to give a balance. So I guess that's my tip. Those are hot takes.
Speaker 1:I hope everyone's listening. So, as I promised in the introduction, I want to talk to you about your membership in the Bourbon Women Association of Louisville. So how did that happen and what is so special about bourbon?
Speaker 2:Well, bourbon is actually delicious, but it's also, it also has a big place in American history.
Speaker 2:It's been around. I mean it's funny because before I think we even became a country, especially like in the Kentucky area, before it was Kentucky and Tennessee, and down the Tennessee River, they used to make like bourbon and it's got corn and it's got rye and it's got barley, and then they would ship it down on the river to New Orleans. That's how Bourbon Street became Bourbon Street, because all the cask of bourbon would end up down on that street in New Orleans from being made up in the South. But I got involved with this group of women because there are a lot of women distillers and women what I'm going to call bourbon people that are in the bourbon industry. There's a ton of women and so this Women's Bourbon Association out of Louisville, that's the heart of bourbon country.
Speaker 2:Ok, and there I mean, like Peggy knows Stevens, that is Jim Beans, that is his granddaughter, and it's just so cool, the history and the and the fun, and they teach you all about bourbon. You know the notes, you know how to taste, you know what's good, you know what, and then you just have fun.
Speaker 1:Will you take me to a bourbon tasting?
Speaker 2:I don't know you can come to my house and get in.
Speaker 1:Okay, you're not far from me, so let's do it. So you've been very gracious with your time. Last question If you could only take one bourbon with you to a desert island, or? Let's do it, so you've been very gracious with your time.
Speaker 2:Last question If you could only take one bourbon with you to a desert island or, let's say, a particularly long HOA meeting. What would it be and why? Well, that's kind of hard. That's like making me pick one. I would pick Midwinter's Night Dram because it's absolutely delicious, but if I couldn't get a bottle of that because it's very hard to get I would. I love Willet Rye, I love Peerless Rye, I love Mictors Rye, and so you were talking about the Women's Bourbon Association. We have what's called the Peacock Club and you pay an extra fee to be a member of the Peacock Club and they go around and these ladies that have been in the like Peggy and Susan Reituer, and these people that have been in the bourbon industry for years they go around to different distilleries and select barrels, and they selected this Four Roses barrel.
Speaker 2:That is almost as good as Midwinter's Night Dram, so probably grab that. I mean I've got several. I might sneak more than one.
Speaker 1:Well, there you have it, and, depending on who listens to this episode, I think maybe you'll be set next Christmas. So, jennifer, thanks so much for joining us today. Thank you for joining us today. Don't forget to follow and rate us on your favorite podcast platform, or visit taketotheboardcom for more ways to connect.